massraider
Footballguy
Historical data is interesting, but anyone think the Browns should be thinking: ''Awww geez, 2nd QB, we better pass.....''
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Rams acquire #1 pick, Massive haul for Titans (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter massraider
- Start date
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Possible hint in an earlier Fisher interview with LA-based ESPN reporter Shelley Smith, may have dropped his guard a bit?
https://twitter.com/shelleyespn
Jeff Fisher to@ShelleyESPN: "Carson (Wentz) will be in a Super Bowl. He's got that kind of ability." #Rams
https://twitter.com/shelleyespn
Jeff Fisher to
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Goff in the top 10 best QB prospects since 1999 by Football Outsiders Proprietary QBASE Analytics
Goff's peers (Peyton Manning, Rivers, Palmer, McNabb, Mariota, Wilson, Roethlisberger and Rodgers, Leftwich the sole outlier) are far more impressive than those of Wentz (does include Flacco, Dalton and Bortles, but also Akili Smith and Josh Freeman)
http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/18496/study-from-football-outsiders-calls-jared-goff-best-qb-prospect
Read full analysis here:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2016/qbase-2016
Carson Wentz (North Dakota State)
Mean Projection in Years 3-5: 274 DYAR
Bust (< 500 DYAR) 61.9%
Adequate Starter (500-1499 DYAR) 24.3%
Upper Tier (1500-2500 DYAR) 10.0%
Elite (>2500 DYAR) 3.8%
Projecting college quarterbacks to the NFL is inexact enough without adding the complication of a collegiate schedule built around FCS schools. Here, we are presenting our projection for Wentz that makes the most generous assumptions we think make sense for the quality of opposing defenses and the quality of his teammates. The projection essentially calls Wentz's overall situation at North Dakota State -- which includes some good surrounding talent that helped win the school a fifth consecutive FCS title -- relatively, but not extremely, favorable for posting good stats. (In building the new model, other FCS quarterbacks in our database are treated similarly.)
Here are Wentz and the quarterbacks since 1996 who have both similar QBASE projections and similar opponent adjustments in the model. The projection sees Wentz as similar to some major-conference quarterbacks, such as Drew Stanton and Akili Smith, who faced relatively weak competition.
QBASE for Prospects with Wentz-like Profiles
Player Projected DYAR
Jimmy Garoppolo 560
Drew Stanton 414
Blake Bortles 373
Akili Smith 325
Carson Wentz 274
Joe Flacco 256
Andy Dalton 132
Paxton Lynch 106
Colin Kaepernick 58
Josh Freeman -17
The hope here is obviously that Wentz will resemble Joe Flacco, a small-school quarterback whom QBASE would have underrated. But while we should be extra cautious with the projections for players from unique situations such as Wentz and Flacco, QBASE is not generally biased against small-school quarterbacks. In addition to Jimmy Garoppolo, it also gives considerably higher rankings to quarterbacks such as Ben Roethlisberger (1,227 DYAR) and Chad Pennington (1,113 DYAR), even though they have even larger corrections for playing weak mid-major schedules.
Our estimates for Wentz's chances of being a bust, 62 percent, are certainly higher than one would hope to see in a No. 2 pick. His statistical profile (62.5 percent completion rate as a senior with 7.9 yards per attempt, 17 touchdowns, five interceptions) fits with other highly drafted quarterbacks who struggled in the NFL. But we want to be even more cautious than usual with our estimates since Wentz comes from a situation that's hard to put into the proper context. Our model has its misses -- and Flacco, who played in a similar situation at the University of Delaware, is one of the biggest.
Nevertheless, while Flacco is the hope if the Browns draft Wentz, he is also the exception to a broader rule. Successful NFL quarterbacks usually show in college not only throws that leap off the film, but also clear and consistent evidence of efficiency, whether they have played at Miami of Ohio or Miami of Florida. Wentz's projection reflects the kind of thin statistical resume that has often predicted first-round busts in the past.
Jared Goff (California)
Mean Projection in Years 3-5: 1,211 DYAR
Bust (< 500 DYAR) 28.3%
Adequate Starter (500-1499 DYAR) 34.1%
Upper Tier (1500-2500 DYAR) 23.5%
Elite (>2500 DYAR) 14.2%
While Goff is not a sure thing, his estimated chances of succeeding in the NFL are only a little bit lower than Marcus Mariota's, QBASE's favorite prospect from the 2015 draft. Goff had the kind of numbers in his final collegiate season (64.5 percent completion rate, 8.9 YPA, 43 TD, 13 INT) that successful NFL quarterbacks usually have. He posted those numbers against a good, but not great, set of defenses (ranked No. 30 in college football by our estimates). He had little help in terms of NFL-caliber talent at receiver or on the offensive line. The only teammate at those positions who projects to be drafted in the first four rounds this year or next is potential third-round receiver Kenny Lawler.
Goff becomes QBASE's No. 9 quarterback prospect of the last 21 years. Mariota occupied that same spot last year, but has moved up in the reshuffling since another year of data has been added to the model.
QBASE Top 10 Prospects Since 1996
Player Projected DYAR
Philip Rivers 1,969
Carson Palmer 1,934
Donovan McNabb 1,831
Peyton Manning 1,306
Marcus Mariota 1,302
Russell Wilson 1,246
Byron Leftwich 1,239
Ben Roethlisberger 1,227
Jared Goff 1,211
Aaron Rodgers 1,205
Players from earlier years are part of the model that creates the projections, so the takeaway here is not that Goff is likely to be as good as his fellow Cal alum just below him on the list. Goff placing so highly instead says that his resume resembles those of other prospects who succeeded as NFL quarterbacks. Our projection gives Goff the best shot this year, almost 40 percent, of being the kind of upper-tier player who solves a team's long-term quarterback dilemma.
Goff's peers (Peyton Manning, Rivers, Palmer, McNabb, Mariota, Wilson, Roethlisberger and Rodgers, Leftwich the sole outlier) are far more impressive than those of Wentz (does include Flacco, Dalton and Bortles, but also Akili Smith and Josh Freeman)
http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/18496/study-from-football-outsiders-calls-jared-goff-best-qb-prospect
Read full analysis here:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2016/qbase-2016
Carson Wentz (North Dakota State)
Mean Projection in Years 3-5: 274 DYAR
Bust (< 500 DYAR) 61.9%
Adequate Starter (500-1499 DYAR) 24.3%
Upper Tier (1500-2500 DYAR) 10.0%
Elite (>2500 DYAR) 3.8%
Projecting college quarterbacks to the NFL is inexact enough without adding the complication of a collegiate schedule built around FCS schools. Here, we are presenting our projection for Wentz that makes the most generous assumptions we think make sense for the quality of opposing defenses and the quality of his teammates. The projection essentially calls Wentz's overall situation at North Dakota State -- which includes some good surrounding talent that helped win the school a fifth consecutive FCS title -- relatively, but not extremely, favorable for posting good stats. (In building the new model, other FCS quarterbacks in our database are treated similarly.)
Here are Wentz and the quarterbacks since 1996 who have both similar QBASE projections and similar opponent adjustments in the model. The projection sees Wentz as similar to some major-conference quarterbacks, such as Drew Stanton and Akili Smith, who faced relatively weak competition.
QBASE for Prospects with Wentz-like Profiles
Player Projected DYAR
Jimmy Garoppolo 560
Drew Stanton 414
Blake Bortles 373
Akili Smith 325
Carson Wentz 274
Joe Flacco 256
Andy Dalton 132
Paxton Lynch 106
Colin Kaepernick 58
Josh Freeman -17
The hope here is obviously that Wentz will resemble Joe Flacco, a small-school quarterback whom QBASE would have underrated. But while we should be extra cautious with the projections for players from unique situations such as Wentz and Flacco, QBASE is not generally biased against small-school quarterbacks. In addition to Jimmy Garoppolo, it also gives considerably higher rankings to quarterbacks such as Ben Roethlisberger (1,227 DYAR) and Chad Pennington (1,113 DYAR), even though they have even larger corrections for playing weak mid-major schedules.
Our estimates for Wentz's chances of being a bust, 62 percent, are certainly higher than one would hope to see in a No. 2 pick. His statistical profile (62.5 percent completion rate as a senior with 7.9 yards per attempt, 17 touchdowns, five interceptions) fits with other highly drafted quarterbacks who struggled in the NFL. But we want to be even more cautious than usual with our estimates since Wentz comes from a situation that's hard to put into the proper context. Our model has its misses -- and Flacco, who played in a similar situation at the University of Delaware, is one of the biggest.
Nevertheless, while Flacco is the hope if the Browns draft Wentz, he is also the exception to a broader rule. Successful NFL quarterbacks usually show in college not only throws that leap off the film, but also clear and consistent evidence of efficiency, whether they have played at Miami of Ohio or Miami of Florida. Wentz's projection reflects the kind of thin statistical resume that has often predicted first-round busts in the past.
Jared Goff (California)
Mean Projection in Years 3-5: 1,211 DYAR
Bust (< 500 DYAR) 28.3%
Adequate Starter (500-1499 DYAR) 34.1%
Upper Tier (1500-2500 DYAR) 23.5%
Elite (>2500 DYAR) 14.2%
While Goff is not a sure thing, his estimated chances of succeeding in the NFL are only a little bit lower than Marcus Mariota's, QBASE's favorite prospect from the 2015 draft. Goff had the kind of numbers in his final collegiate season (64.5 percent completion rate, 8.9 YPA, 43 TD, 13 INT) that successful NFL quarterbacks usually have. He posted those numbers against a good, but not great, set of defenses (ranked No. 30 in college football by our estimates). He had little help in terms of NFL-caliber talent at receiver or on the offensive line. The only teammate at those positions who projects to be drafted in the first four rounds this year or next is potential third-round receiver Kenny Lawler.
Goff becomes QBASE's No. 9 quarterback prospect of the last 21 years. Mariota occupied that same spot last year, but has moved up in the reshuffling since another year of data has been added to the model.
QBASE Top 10 Prospects Since 1996
Player Projected DYAR
Philip Rivers 1,969
Carson Palmer 1,934
Donovan McNabb 1,831
Peyton Manning 1,306
Marcus Mariota 1,302
Russell Wilson 1,246
Byron Leftwich 1,239
Ben Roethlisberger 1,227
Jared Goff 1,211
Aaron Rodgers 1,205
Players from earlier years are part of the model that creates the projections, so the takeaway here is not that Goff is likely to be as good as his fellow Cal alum just below him on the list. Goff placing so highly instead says that his resume resembles those of other prospects who succeeded as NFL quarterbacks. Our projection gives Goff the best shot this year, almost 40 percent, of being the kind of upper-tier player who solves a team's long-term quarterback dilemma.
I've been looking at that FO article a while now. I don't know how they can do it better but, the prior years are lacking. Some of their wording is "off."
The top tier QBs look nice in their QBBase system but the deeper guys ...idk.
Many I look at like umm yeah barely got a chance to play-3 NFL starts? 2? 1? 0? Made him stand still in pocket while he was running QB, was never gonna work. etc
Dave Ragone sentence of inaccuracy, ignores that he was fantastic in NFLE and NFLpreseason with 70-80% completion percentage. Some of that got him a job as an NFL QB coach.
Couch and Carr were totally fine as rookies, some in year two. They look shell-shocked after. I don't think they were the prob but lack of OL and GM failing there to secure one. What were they to do? Make them crash test dummies and see how the brain held up?
Giants had a guy a few years back that was a first round QB from Kentucky junior year and senior year fell to being out of the draft. I've never seen a guy plummet like that. Awesome in minicamp, horrible in training camp. That guy right there is probably a study in and of itself.
Remember Michael Bishop? ya can't project the role he played and once Brady stepped up, he never really got a chance.
Small school QBs doesn't list Armanti Edwards. IMO best college player ever-if not, then best game ever by college player...something where he is considerably high for small school. Beat bigger schools, won championship. The athletic prototype wasn't there at all but the stats and results were.
I don't see Mett. I think he was very poorly slated in the draft and better than where he went. His WRs seem to have made it hard to predict how he'd do. I get that, but that ought to be in a study. How much to discount stellar WRs?
I enjoy the page I am totally nitpicking here. Even last year's link is interesting. I hope they continue to evolve this
The top tier QBs look nice in their QBBase system but the deeper guys ...idk.
Many I look at like umm yeah barely got a chance to play-3 NFL starts? 2? 1? 0? Made him stand still in pocket while he was running QB, was never gonna work. etc
Dave Ragone sentence of inaccuracy, ignores that he was fantastic in NFLE and NFLpreseason with 70-80% completion percentage. Some of that got him a job as an NFL QB coach.
Couch and Carr were totally fine as rookies, some in year two. They look shell-shocked after. I don't think they were the prob but lack of OL and GM failing there to secure one. What were they to do? Make them crash test dummies and see how the brain held up?
Giants had a guy a few years back that was a first round QB from Kentucky junior year and senior year fell to being out of the draft. I've never seen a guy plummet like that. Awesome in minicamp, horrible in training camp. That guy right there is probably a study in and of itself.
Remember Michael Bishop? ya can't project the role he played and once Brady stepped up, he never really got a chance.
Small school QBs doesn't list Armanti Edwards. IMO best college player ever-if not, then best game ever by college player...something where he is considerably high for small school. Beat bigger schools, won championship. The athletic prototype wasn't there at all but the stats and results were.
I don't see Mett. I think he was very poorly slated in the draft and better than where he went. His WRs seem to have made it hard to predict how he'd do. I get that, but that ought to be in a study. How much to discount stellar WRs?
I enjoy the page I am totally nitpicking here. Even last year's link is interesting. I hope they continue to evolve this
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Article with embedded list, QBs taken in top 2 since '70, sorted by win percentage
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25557163/rams-and-browns-beware-history-says-drafting-qbs-early-is-a-crapshoot
* Two other first round non-FBS QBs besides McNair (3) and Flacco (18)
Ken O'Brien UC Davis (24) hallowed class of '83
Phil Simms Morehead State (7) '79
BTW, to the historians out there, have there been any non-FBS QBs since Simms (or before, since the merger) taken in the first round that failed?
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
The Great Unknown
One wrist injury, 612 throws, zero competition -- Does Carson Wentz really add up to $20M?
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/15158945/does-north-dakota-state-qb-carson-wentz-really-add-20m
Latest ESPN Magazine's lead article
One wrist injury, 612 throws, zero competition -- Does Carson Wentz really add up to $20M?
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/15158945/does-north-dakota-state-qb-carson-wentz-really-add-20m
Latest ESPN Magazine's lead article
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Go to the link for the rest:
http://walterfootball.com/ramstitanspat.php
By Pat Yasinskas. Follow @walterfootball for updates. On a frigid January day in Mobile, Ala., I ran into someone who works for the Los Angeles Rams. He had two jobs at the Senior Bowl practice. One was to stay warm. The other was to scout the quarterbacks. The second job was far easier than the first. I have a long-standing relationship with this person, and we sat and watched the practices together. He spoke off the record and openly. By the end of the week, it was more than obvious he thought North Dakota State's Carson Wentz was the best of the bunch. From what he told me, the rest of the Rams' brain trust felt the same way, and the Rams needed a quarterback. There was one problem, however. The Rams weren't scheduled to pick until No. 15 overall. By any estimation, Wentz would be long gone. My Rams source said the team would love to swing a trade into the top five to get Wentz but didn't think there was any way they could swing it. The price tag simply would be too much...
http://walterfootball.com/ramstitanspat.php
By Pat Yasinskas. Follow @walterfootball for updates. On a frigid January day in Mobile, Ala., I ran into someone who works for the Los Angeles Rams. He had two jobs at the Senior Bowl practice. One was to stay warm. The other was to scout the quarterbacks. The second job was far easier than the first. I have a long-standing relationship with this person, and we sat and watched the practices together. He spoke off the record and openly. By the end of the week, it was more than obvious he thought North Dakota State's Carson Wentz was the best of the bunch. From what he told me, the rest of the Rams' brain trust felt the same way, and the Rams needed a quarterback. There was one problem, however. The Rams weren't scheduled to pick until No. 15 overall. By any estimation, Wentz would be long gone. My Rams source said the team would love to swing a trade into the top five to get Wentz but didn't think there was any way they could swing it. The price tag simply would be too much...
Going in the way back machine here, but Dan Pastorini went #3 overall to the Oilers in 71', and he had a very Trent Dilfer like career, where he wasn't awful, but he certainly wasn't very good. Pastorini was the 3rd QB taken that year, after Jim Plunkett and Archie Manning.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Nice. An early football memory is of Pastorini winning the distance portion of a skills competition (remember those, and shows like American
Not the skills comp, but vintage footage circa '88 - Dan still had it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs4MjoFkVTA
They used to have shows like Superstars in the '70s (OJ was in it, as was Olympic pole vaulter Dwight "Rolling" Stones)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj_sciOA74o
And even more goofy, Battle of the Network Stars (Robert Conrad of Wild, Wild West has a schizoid embolism
arguing with Welcome Back Kotter's Gabe Kaplan about a race technicality/disqualification)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqWU9huMMco
Interesting CV. I knew he played for the Rams, did not know he raced dragsters (I mean, as a driver! not as a NASCAR owner like Joe Gibbs) and pioneered the use of flack jackets. Gnarly stuff, wiki bio states he played through broken ribs and even a punctured lung!!
HOU huddle - Dan, I think you just barfed out your spleen and may want to take a TV timeout.
At 31, he was traded to OAK for 34 year old Kenny Stabler in a now rare starting QB swap (maybe then, too?). He broke his leg in OAK and was replaced by backup fomer Heisman winner/Pat Jim Plunkett, who had been biding his time and waiting patiently on the bench for two seasons, who later beat Stabler and HOU in the playoffs, eventually going on to gain redemption in a once disappointing career by winning a Super Bowl with the Raiders.
Post-NFL Pastorini arcana:
Pastorini raced hydroplanes, drag-raced cars, judged wet T-shirt contests, and starred in a 1974 B-movie called Weed: The Florida Connection and then co-starred in a 1979 Lee Majors movie called Killer Fish. He also played a role in the TV series "Voyagers" as a gladiator. He married glamor model June Wilkinson, who appeared in Playboy Magazine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Pastorini
Sounds like a red-blooded American dude living the dream (except for the punctured lung part).
Not the skills comp, but vintage footage circa '88 - Dan still had it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs4MjoFkVTA
They used to have shows like Superstars in the '70s (OJ was in it, as was Olympic pole vaulter Dwight "Rolling" Stones)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj_sciOA74o
And even more goofy, Battle of the Network Stars (Robert Conrad of Wild, Wild West has a schizoid embolism
arguing with Welcome Back Kotter's Gabe Kaplan about a race technicality/disqualification) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqWU9huMMco
Interesting CV. I knew he played for the Rams, did not know he raced dragsters (I mean, as a driver! not as a NASCAR owner like Joe Gibbs) and pioneered the use of flack jackets. Gnarly stuff, wiki bio states he played through broken ribs and even a punctured lung!!
HOU huddle - Dan, I think you just barfed out your spleen and may want to take a TV timeout.
At 31, he was traded to OAK for 34 year old Kenny Stabler in a now rare starting QB swap (maybe then, too?). He broke his leg in OAK and was replaced by backup fomer Heisman winner/Pat Jim Plunkett, who had been biding his time and waiting patiently on the bench for two seasons, who later beat Stabler and HOU in the playoffs, eventually going on to gain redemption in a once disappointing career by winning a Super Bowl with the Raiders.
Post-NFL Pastorini arcana:
Pastorini raced hydroplanes, drag-raced cars, judged wet T-shirt contests, and starred in a 1974 B-movie called Weed: The Florida Connection and then co-starred in a 1979 Lee Majors movie called Killer Fish. He also played a role in the TV series "Voyagers" as a gladiator. He married glamor model June Wilkinson, who appeared in Playboy Magazine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Pastorini
Sounds like a red-blooded American dude living the dream (except for the punctured lung part).
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
People write articles with good intentions but often don't go the extra mile to show the "big picture."
Here is the list of all #1 or #2 picks since 1970. IMO, it looks like there are a lot more hits than misses at the QB position. The problem is, missing on a frnachise QB probably hurts more than whiffing on other spots. Sorted by CareerAV.
Code:
Peyton Manning 1 QB 177 IND 1998
Bruce Smith 1 DE 148 BUF 1985
John Elway 1 QB 138 IND 1983
Lawrence Taylor 2 LB 137 NYG 1981
Marshall Faulk 2 RB 133 IND 1994
Julius Peppers 2 DE 126 CAR 2002
Randy White 2 DT 116 DAL 1975
Tony Dorsett 2 RB 108 DAL 1977
Donovan McNabb 2 QB 107 PHI 1999
Terry Bradshaw 1 QB 106 PIT 1970
Orlando Pace 1 T 106 LAR 1997
Eli Manning 1 QB 104 SDC 2004
Drew Bledsoe 1 QB 103 NEP 1993
Carson Palmer 1 QB 100 CIN 2003
Troy Aikman 1 QB 97 DAL 1989
V Testaverde 1 QB 97 TBB 1987
Neil Smith 2 DE 95 KCC 1988
Too Tall Jones 1 DE 94 DAL 1974
Michael Vick 1 QB 93 ATL 2001
Eric Dickerson 2 RB 91 LAR 1993
C Bennett 2 LB 90 IND 1987
Jim Plunkett 1 QB 85 NEP 1971
Bert Jones 2 QB 81 IND 1973
Irving Fryar 1 WR 79 NEP 1984
Calvin Johnson 2 WR 78 DET 2007
K Johnson 1 WR 78 NYJ 1996
Cam Newton 1 QB 76 CAR 2011
Mario Williams 1 DE 75 HOU 2006
Archie Manning 2 QB 75 NOS 1971
Art Still 2 DE 73 KCC 1978
Lee Roy Selmon 1 LB 73 TBB 1976
Alex Smith 1 QB 72 SFO 2005
S Bartkowski 1 QB 70 ATL 1975
Earl Campbell 1 RB 68 TEN 1978
Leonard Davis 2 T 67 ARI 2001
Ndamukong Suh 2 DT 65 DET 2010
Jeff George 1 QB 65 IND 1990
Matt Stafford 1 QB 64 DET 2009
Kevin Hardy 2 LB 64 JAX 1996
Tony Boselli 2 T 63 JAX 1995
Dan Wilkinson 1 DT 60 CIN 1994
R Maryland 1 DT 60 DAL 1991
Reggie Bush 2 RB 60 NOS 2006
Bill Fralic 2 G 58 ATL 1985
Von Miller 2 LB 58 DEN 2011
Billy Sims 1 RB 58 DET 1980
Tony Casillas 2 DT 57 ATL 1986
Sherman White 2 DE 55 CIN 1972
Jake Long 1 T 53 MIA 2008
Eric Turner 2 DB 52 CLE 1991
Mike McCoy 2 DT 46 GBP 1970
George Rogers 1 RB 46 NOS 1981
Darrell Russell 2 DT 46 OAK 1997
LaVar Arrington 2 LB 46 WAS 2000
Andrew Luck 1 QB 45 IND 2012
Mike Bell 2 DE 45 KCC 1979
David Carr 1 QB 44 HOU 2002
John Matuszak 1 DE 43 TEN 1973
Chris Long 2 DE 42 LAR 2008
Ronnie Brown 2 RB 41 MIA 2005
Johnie Cooks 2 LB 40 IND 1982
Robert Gallery 2 T 38 OAK 2004
Tom Cousineau 1 LB 36 BUF 1979
Dean Steinkuler 2 T 35 TEN 1984
Sam Bradford 1 QB 33 LAR 2010
Kenneth Sims 1 DE 32 NEP 1982
Rick Mirer 2 QB 32 SEA 1993
Robert Griffin 2 QB 32 WAS 2012
Tim Couch 1 QB 30 CLE 1999
Quentin Coryatt 2 LB 30 IND 1992
Courtney Brown 1 DE 28 CLE 2000
Tony Mandarich 2 T 28 GBP 1989
Aundray Bruce 1 LB 25 ATL 1988
Ricky Bell 1 RB 24 TBB 1977
Bo Jackson 1 RB 22 TBB 1986
Walt Patulski 1 DE 21 BUF 1972
Eric Fisher 1 T 21 KCC 2013
Lam Jones 2 WR 21 NYJ 1980
Blair Thomas 2 RB 20 NYJ 1990
Luke Joeckel 2 T 15 JAX 2013
Steve Emtman 1 DE 13 IND 1992
Bo Matthews 2 RB 13 SDC 1974
Jameis Winston 1 QB 13 TBB 2015
Ki-Jana Carter 1 RB 12 CIN 1995
Greg Robinson 2 T 12 LAR 2014
Jason Smith 2 T 10 LAR 2009
Steve Niehaus 2 DT 9 SEA 1976
Marcus Mariota 2 QB 9 TEN 2015
J Clowney 1 DE 6 HOU 2014
J Russell 1 QB 6 OAK 2007
Charles Rogers 2 WR 4 DET 2003
Ryan Leaf 2 QB 1 SDC 1998
Spike
Footballguy
In principle I agree with this, but I sort of put this type of thing into two categories - the GM trader and the GM drafter.
So, no matter what the GM drafter does, it was a slam-dunk victory for the GM trader. Yes, I know it's the same guy but I don't agree with those who state, "Yeah, big haul but let's see what they do with those picks."
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Exactly. If some guy in your fantasy league trades a 2018 1st of the best team in the league straight up for Julio Jones, it is a GREAT trade.
Even if Julio Jones retires the next week and that 2018 1st end up the best player in the history of the NFL, it was STILL a great trade.
In this case, the Titans would have to have draft a 1st ballot hall of famer at pick 1 to justify not accepting that trade. Even then it might not have justified it depending on the position of the player they would have drafted.
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
MMQB - Jared Goff Projects to Stardom
Goff is expected to be the first quarterback off the board in April’s draft. Our film-study expert, watching the Cal QB for the first time, liked what he saw over a three-game stretch
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/10/27/jared-goff-nfl-draft-2016-top-quarterback-qb-prospect
Goff is expected to be the first quarterback off the board in April’s draft. Our film-study expert, watching the Cal QB for the first time, liked what he saw over a three-game stretch
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/10/27/jared-goff-nfl-draft-2016-top-quarterback-qb-prospect
cstu
Footballguy
CalBear
Footballguy
Goff really has been amazing in those situations, and in end-of-half drives. If he had more opportunities at end-of-game drives there'd likely be no question about who's the #1 QB. His only real clean game-winning drive opportunity came at the end of the Arizona State game this year, which was the best game of Goff's career (coming back from 21 points down, including three scores in the last 9:13, and, two in the last 6:05, game-winning drive ending in FG with no time on the clock).
http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2015/11/29/9422363/california-golden-bears-arizona-state-sun-devils-jared-goff-2015-watch
First, look at the TD to Muhammad. It's not a long pass, but it's great recognition of the defense, with a blitz coming from the right side, and the two wide outs on that side running crossing routes, with the wheel route coming behind them. I'm not sure whether the play was called from the sideline or Goff audibled to it. Sitting in the stadium it was obvious it would be a huge play as soon as he threw it, and hitting Muhammad in stride allowed him to get by the cornerbacks and turn it into a long TD.
Then, the back-shoulder throw to Powe to take the lead. It's a great catch, and the defense misplayed it (should have tackled him there), but a very nice ball in a gap in the zone.
Then, evading a tackler in the pocket, rolling out right, breaking a tackle with a spin move, and finding Hansen for a first down.
We'll miss him. And he'll be a solid NFL QB.
stratocatter
Footballguy
Sure. Titans could miss on every pick. But they could have missed on the #1 too for that matter. Or not maximized it. I would still be them every day if I had the chance, even though the Rams may be still be okay after all is said and done.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Peter King's MMQB/SI
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/04/17/jj-watt-houston-texans-injury-nfl-future-retirement-peter-king
Some excerpts germane to the trade specifically and LA in general
The action at the top of the draft is not done
I’ll write more about the Titans-Rams trade in the coming days (if you’re a fan of either team, I urge you to check back for it; it’s likely to run here at The MMQB on Wednesday), but that tops the list of things I’m hearing about the draft, which, mercifully, is just 10 days away.
• “Do we want to be the Chiefs, Texans or Jets?” That’s a question that bounced around the Rams’ hierarchy over the past three months, as they decided whether to break the bank to move up to No. 1. In other words, three franchises trying to go deep into the playoffs with strong defenses and questionable quarterback situations (though I’d argue Kansas City is better than that, but I’m not the one asking the question). The quest for the quarterback gained momentum as the off-season went on, got very serious at the Ole Miss Pro Day on March 28, and was consummated because it made too much sense for the needs of both teams.
• Goff’s the leader in the clubhouse for the top pick, but there is still one other golfer on the course. I get that everyone wants to know who the top pick is, and I believe, as Mike Silver and Adam Schefter have both reported, that Cal’s Jared Goff has the edge inside the Rams’ organization, over Carson Wentz of North Dakota State. But one of the reasons the Rams made this decision now is because they wanted two weeks to cross all the T’s before making the pick April 28. The team will take some of the focus off all the choices between, say, 10 and 75 on its board now (wideout Josh Doctson, safety Karl Joseph, corner Xavien Howard, for example), and laser-focus on the two quarterbacks and the lower-round players on their draft board. I’ve heard that one of the reasons the decision isn’t done with finality is the love of Wentz inside the organization. The Rams think he has rare maturity and would be fine handling the pressure that comes with being the first pick in the draft—and a billboard on Sunset Boulevard. So we’ll see.
• So now, effectively, Cleveland’s on the clock. I keep hearing Cleveland favors Goff, but I also keep hearing the Browns want to trade back. “Cleveland’s active, doing their due diligence,” one front-office source said Saturday.
• Spitballing on who might be aggressive in trying to move up. Too much talk around the Eagles (eighth overall pick) trying to get up for a quarterback to dismiss it. So that’s one. Two: Dallas (picking fourth), with Jerry Jones and Jason Garrett loving what they saw in Goff, and already liking Wentz a lot from the staff’s time coaching him in the Senior Bowl; my guess is Dallas is more of a Goff team. Three: The Jets (20th), though as ESPN’s Rich Cimini wisely pointed out, moving up to number two would likely cost them their best defensive player, unsigned defensive end Muhammad Wilkerson. To jump that high would require a high amount of capital, and Cleveland would have to want to take on a huge contract (maybe $18-20 million a year for Wilkerson) and be willing to move from two to 20—and perhaps get another sweetener to do the deal. Wilkerson is 26, and a sure thing, so I wouldn’t blame Cleveland for doing it. But if the Browns pass on a quarterback who becomes a star and Robert Griffin III struggles—well, bring on the next front-office crew. Four: Denver (31). It’s silly to even think, because it would take so much to move this far. The only way it makes a scintilla of sense for the Browns is if Denver parts with the expensive Von Miller. I just don’t see it. But I include Denver here because I can’t see John Elway entering camp with, say, Mark Sanchez, Nick Foles and Connor Cook. Doesn’t mean it won’t happen, but it would surprise me.
Stats of the Week
Ahh, the vagaries of the long-discussed Draft Value Trade Chart. Early in Jimmy Johnson’s tenure with the Cowboys, he wanted to figure a way to assign a worth to every slot in the NFL draft, in order to gauge fairness of trade offers. So he had Cowboys executive Mike McCoy work up a chart, with 3,000 points assigned to the first overall pick, 2,600 to the second, all the way down to 2 points, for the 224th pick in the draft. Since 1989, every NFL teams has used some version of this for trades.
Though it seemed the Titans fleeced the Rams the other day on the mega-trade for the top pick in the draft, it’s probably not that way, because the 15th pick in the draft is valued at 1,050 points. And who knows the value of the 2017 picks dealt by the Rams to Tennessee (in the first and third rounds), but for the sake of this exercise, I’ve assigned the values of the 16th pick of each round, to figure out how the Titans-Rams trade measures … and I’ve compared it to some recent mega-deals in the draft.
• 2016: Tennessee (1) to St. Louis (15). Titans acquire 3,370 points. Rams acquire 3,089. Rams move from 15 to 1 to get a long-term quarterback. Tennessee gets a new roster.
• 2011: Cleveland (6) to Atlanta (26). Browns acquire 1,856 points. Falcons acquire 1,600. Falcons get Julio Jones. Browns get zip: Phil Taylor, Greg Little, Brandon Weeden, Owen Marecic
• 2012: St. Louis (2) to Washington (6). Rams acquire 5,490 points. Washington acquires 2,600. Robert Griffin III to Washington; 8 players to Rams, led by Michael Brockers, Alec Ogletree.
• 2004: San Diego (1) to N.Y. Giants (4). Chargers acquire 3,299. Giants acquire 3,000. Giants get Eli Manning. Chargers do well: Philip Rivers, Shawne Merriman, Nate Kaeding, Roman Oben.
One of my points on megatrades: If the single player produces big for the acquiring team (Julio Jones, Eli Manning), no complaints on the price paid. Though you might argue that Rivers has been nearly as good or maybe better than Manning, Eli has the two Super Bowl wins, and so the argument is moot. The killer in trades like this is when you fail miserably to turn the picks into a backbone for your team, as the Browns did. What a horrible return they got for what was clearly a good haul in return for Jones.
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• The Cardinals have a bad last two weeks: at Seattle on Christmas Eve, at the Rams (Arizona has trouble with the Rams) on New Year’s Day. But before then the slate’s pretty good, perhaps missing Tom Brady in Week 1 if he’s suspended, and getting three of their four prime-time games at home, with all four in the first seven weeks.
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• Los Angeles won’t like the NFL on Sunday morning, Oct. 23. The Rams and Giants will play a game that kicks off at 6:35 a.m. Pacific Time … eight hours away in London.
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I think it’s interesting that Denver wants to host an NFL draft, as Broncos media czar Patrick Smyth said last week. Denver, Canton (on the Hall of Fame grounds) and Chicago will surely be in contention for future drafts. But the prime threat is Los Angeles. There’s no question the NFL would love to put its red carpet in the land that made red carpets famous. I expect there to be a spirited bid by Los Angeles for the 2017 draft.
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Many thanks for a strong week from our staff. Andy Benoit broke down game tape with Jared Goff, and look at Benoit on the same level with Goff. Good closing line by Benoit, at the end of the story: “It’s time to part ways. Goff extends one of his much-talked-about hands (size seems fine to me) and, like every professional athlete I’ve ever met, shakes with an inherent strength that could crush my fingers into a fine powder. Whenever we meet again, he’ll be some team’s franchise quarterback.”
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/04/17/jj-watt-houston-texans-injury-nfl-future-retirement-peter-king
Some excerpts germane to the trade specifically and LA in general
The action at the top of the draft is not done
I’ll write more about the Titans-Rams trade in the coming days (if you’re a fan of either team, I urge you to check back for it; it’s likely to run here at The MMQB on Wednesday), but that tops the list of things I’m hearing about the draft, which, mercifully, is just 10 days away.
• “Do we want to be the Chiefs, Texans or Jets?” That’s a question that bounced around the Rams’ hierarchy over the past three months, as they decided whether to break the bank to move up to No. 1. In other words, three franchises trying to go deep into the playoffs with strong defenses and questionable quarterback situations (though I’d argue Kansas City is better than that, but I’m not the one asking the question). The quest for the quarterback gained momentum as the off-season went on, got very serious at the Ole Miss Pro Day on March 28, and was consummated because it made too much sense for the needs of both teams.
• Goff’s the leader in the clubhouse for the top pick, but there is still one other golfer on the course. I get that everyone wants to know who the top pick is, and I believe, as Mike Silver and Adam Schefter have both reported, that Cal’s Jared Goff has the edge inside the Rams’ organization, over Carson Wentz of North Dakota State. But one of the reasons the Rams made this decision now is because they wanted two weeks to cross all the T’s before making the pick April 28. The team will take some of the focus off all the choices between, say, 10 and 75 on its board now (wideout Josh Doctson, safety Karl Joseph, corner Xavien Howard, for example), and laser-focus on the two quarterbacks and the lower-round players on their draft board. I’ve heard that one of the reasons the decision isn’t done with finality is the love of Wentz inside the organization. The Rams think he has rare maturity and would be fine handling the pressure that comes with being the first pick in the draft—and a billboard on Sunset Boulevard. So we’ll see.
• So now, effectively, Cleveland’s on the clock. I keep hearing Cleveland favors Goff, but I also keep hearing the Browns want to trade back. “Cleveland’s active, doing their due diligence,” one front-office source said Saturday.
• Spitballing on who might be aggressive in trying to move up. Too much talk around the Eagles (eighth overall pick) trying to get up for a quarterback to dismiss it. So that’s one. Two: Dallas (picking fourth), with Jerry Jones and Jason Garrett loving what they saw in Goff, and already liking Wentz a lot from the staff’s time coaching him in the Senior Bowl; my guess is Dallas is more of a Goff team. Three: The Jets (20th), though as ESPN’s Rich Cimini wisely pointed out, moving up to number two would likely cost them their best defensive player, unsigned defensive end Muhammad Wilkerson. To jump that high would require a high amount of capital, and Cleveland would have to want to take on a huge contract (maybe $18-20 million a year for Wilkerson) and be willing to move from two to 20—and perhaps get another sweetener to do the deal. Wilkerson is 26, and a sure thing, so I wouldn’t blame Cleveland for doing it. But if the Browns pass on a quarterback who becomes a star and Robert Griffin III struggles—well, bring on the next front-office crew. Four: Denver (31). It’s silly to even think, because it would take so much to move this far. The only way it makes a scintilla of sense for the Browns is if Denver parts with the expensive Von Miller. I just don’t see it. But I include Denver here because I can’t see John Elway entering camp with, say, Mark Sanchez, Nick Foles and Connor Cook. Doesn’t mean it won’t happen, but it would surprise me.
Stats of the Week
Ahh, the vagaries of the long-discussed Draft Value Trade Chart. Early in Jimmy Johnson’s tenure with the Cowboys, he wanted to figure a way to assign a worth to every slot in the NFL draft, in order to gauge fairness of trade offers. So he had Cowboys executive Mike McCoy work up a chart, with 3,000 points assigned to the first overall pick, 2,600 to the second, all the way down to 2 points, for the 224th pick in the draft. Since 1989, every NFL teams has used some version of this for trades.
Though it seemed the Titans fleeced the Rams the other day on the mega-trade for the top pick in the draft, it’s probably not that way, because the 15th pick in the draft is valued at 1,050 points. And who knows the value of the 2017 picks dealt by the Rams to Tennessee (in the first and third rounds), but for the sake of this exercise, I’ve assigned the values of the 16th pick of each round, to figure out how the Titans-Rams trade measures … and I’ve compared it to some recent mega-deals in the draft.
• 2016: Tennessee (1) to St. Louis (15). Titans acquire 3,370 points. Rams acquire 3,089. Rams move from 15 to 1 to get a long-term quarterback. Tennessee gets a new roster.
• 2011: Cleveland (6) to Atlanta (26). Browns acquire 1,856 points. Falcons acquire 1,600. Falcons get Julio Jones. Browns get zip: Phil Taylor, Greg Little, Brandon Weeden, Owen Marecic
• 2012: St. Louis (2) to Washington (6). Rams acquire 5,490 points. Washington acquires 2,600. Robert Griffin III to Washington; 8 players to Rams, led by Michael Brockers, Alec Ogletree.
• 2004: San Diego (1) to N.Y. Giants (4). Chargers acquire 3,299. Giants acquire 3,000. Giants get Eli Manning. Chargers do well: Philip Rivers, Shawne Merriman, Nate Kaeding, Roman Oben.
One of my points on megatrades: If the single player produces big for the acquiring team (Julio Jones, Eli Manning), no complaints on the price paid. Though you might argue that Rivers has been nearly as good or maybe better than Manning, Eli has the two Super Bowl wins, and so the argument is moot. The killer in trades like this is when you fail miserably to turn the picks into a backbone for your team, as the Browns did. What a horrible return they got for what was clearly a good haul in return for Jones.
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• The Cardinals have a bad last two weeks: at Seattle on Christmas Eve, at the Rams (Arizona has trouble with the Rams) on New Year’s Day. But before then the slate’s pretty good, perhaps missing Tom Brady in Week 1 if he’s suspended, and getting three of their four prime-time games at home, with all four in the first seven weeks.
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• Los Angeles won’t like the NFL on Sunday morning, Oct. 23. The Rams and Giants will play a game that kicks off at 6:35 a.m. Pacific Time … eight hours away in London.
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I think it’s interesting that Denver wants to host an NFL draft, as Broncos media czar Patrick Smyth said last week. Denver, Canton (on the Hall of Fame grounds) and Chicago will surely be in contention for future drafts. But the prime threat is Los Angeles. There’s no question the NFL would love to put its red carpet in the land that made red carpets famous. I expect there to be a spirited bid by Los Angeles for the 2017 draft.
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Many thanks for a strong week from our staff. Andy Benoit broke down game tape with Jared Goff, and look at Benoit on the same level with Goff. Good closing line by Benoit, at the end of the story: “It’s time to part ways. Goff extends one of his much-talked-about hands (size seems fine to me) and, like every professional athlete I’ve ever met, shakes with an inherent strength that could crush my fingers into a fine powder. Whenever we meet again, he’ll be some team’s franchise quarterback.”
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Inside the Film Room With... Jared Goff
While he was on the wrong side of the scoreboard, the Cal quarterback showed the subtleties and savvy of a future franchise QB during last season’s loss at Stanford. Just weeks before the draft, he broke down the game film for The MMQB
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/04/12/jared-goff-california-film-study-nfl-draft
While he was on the wrong side of the scoreboard, the Cal quarterback showed the subtleties and savvy of a future franchise QB during last season’s loss at Stanford. Just weeks before the draft, he broke down the game film for The MMQB
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/04/12/jared-goff-california-film-study-nfl-draft
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Some of my notes on the Rams choice between the top two QB prospects
Wentz
Two things, about Wentz's inexperience and level of competition:
1) I think the QB ahead of him was the best in the nation at that level, and did win three national championships before his two, so I can understand HC not wanting to change a good thing and disrupt the already potent continuity they had going.
2) Wentz was a scrawny 5'8" 120 lb. Freshman in high school. He got hurt as a junior (not sure if he even played QB at that time) so literally just wasn't recruited, didn't even have a bio page on Scout.com (and let's face it, North Dakota not as high profile as CA, FL, TX, PA, OH, even under the best of circumstances, which his certainly weren't). By his senior year, I think he said Central Michigan was one of or his only other offer (not sure if FBS but think so, either Eastern or Western Michigan produced former GB second round WR Greg Jennings who caught a few of Favre's record breaking TD passes, and a DEN TE from a few years ago). So call him a late bloomer. In a way, since coming on to the national stage, he has been a rocket and the arc and trajectory of his career is pointed straight up.
Goff
On the Goff vs. Wentz special on the NFL Network this weekend, I saw a Goff highlight that was just a stupid, insanely accurate 30-40 yard stick throw to the corner of the goal line for a score over a CB and in front of a converging safety on a bang bang play while staring down the gun barrel and about to get smashed by the pass rusher, he was oblivious and flashed the physical courage and toughness to stand up to the rush and finish the play (when he needs to, he does see, "feel" and react to the rush, and has advanced, instinctive pocket sense and presence, short area mobility and quick footed pass rush evasion skills, sort of like Marino's efficient, crab-like in pocket shuffles, the ability to improvise and passing mechanics flexibility to throw from a variety of platforms and launch points, this is another sort of key sub-set of the larger overarching constellation of traits and attributes that comprise many successful NFL QBs, along with anticipation and the related ability to "throw WRs open" that many NFL QBs never master or even demonstrate - Goff embodying the confluence of those two strands bodes well, imo, and the hope is it more than compensates for his admittedly less than Wentz's RPG launcher arm (though he can still make all the required throws at the next level), hulking size and being behind in terms of running a pro style offense, like virtually all college QBs).
To Goff's credit, he overcame a lot of adversity, too, though he was a Golden Boy far more heavily recruited. During the season when he became the first true Freshman QB starter in school history, opponents administered an absolute, positive BEATING in a 1-11 season. His record suffers in the comparison with Wentz, but impossible to compare due to level of competition (what would he have done at NDSU, and Wentz at Cal, we'll never know, a fundamental unanswerable that is emblematic of the inherent challenges scouting is fraught with). He did better as a Soph, though I don't think he had a winning record, showed improvement each season as he climbed the ladder of national recognition himself (now finds himself on the top rung with Wentz in their own tier, they are represented by the same agent and worked out together, in a friendly competition, I think both have respect for each other's different skills and game they bring to the table, respectively). Than he almost singlehandedly elevated Cal, and put them on his back to an 8-5 season. So he showed a lot of grit and toughness in hanging in there, and that is reflected in and mirrored by his toughness in the pocket. They are both studs, imo, just in different ways.
Wentz
Two things, about Wentz's inexperience and level of competition:
1) I think the QB ahead of him was the best in the nation at that level, and did win three national championships before his two, so I can understand HC not wanting to change a good thing and disrupt the already potent continuity they had going.
2) Wentz was a scrawny 5'8" 120 lb. Freshman in high school. He got hurt as a junior (not sure if he even played QB at that time) so literally just wasn't recruited, didn't even have a bio page on Scout.com (and let's face it, North Dakota not as high profile as CA, FL, TX, PA, OH, even under the best of circumstances, which his certainly weren't). By his senior year, I think he said Central Michigan was one of or his only other offer (not sure if FBS but think so, either Eastern or Western Michigan produced former GB second round WR Greg Jennings who caught a few of Favre's record breaking TD passes, and a DEN TE from a few years ago). So call him a late bloomer. In a way, since coming on to the national stage, he has been a rocket and the arc and trajectory of his career is pointed straight up.
Goff
On the Goff vs. Wentz special on the NFL Network this weekend, I saw a Goff highlight that was just a stupid, insanely accurate 30-40 yard stick throw to the corner of the goal line for a score over a CB and in front of a converging safety on a bang bang play while staring down the gun barrel and about to get smashed by the pass rusher, he was oblivious and flashed the physical courage and toughness to stand up to the rush and finish the play (when he needs to, he does see, "feel" and react to the rush, and has advanced, instinctive pocket sense and presence, short area mobility and quick footed pass rush evasion skills, sort of like Marino's efficient, crab-like in pocket shuffles, the ability to improvise and passing mechanics flexibility to throw from a variety of platforms and launch points, this is another sort of key sub-set of the larger overarching constellation of traits and attributes that comprise many successful NFL QBs, along with anticipation and the related ability to "throw WRs open" that many NFL QBs never master or even demonstrate - Goff embodying the confluence of those two strands bodes well, imo, and the hope is it more than compensates for his admittedly less than Wentz's RPG launcher arm (though he can still make all the required throws at the next level), hulking size and being behind in terms of running a pro style offense, like virtually all college QBs).
To Goff's credit, he overcame a lot of adversity, too, though he was a Golden Boy far more heavily recruited. During the season when he became the first true Freshman QB starter in school history, opponents administered an absolute, positive BEATING in a 1-11 season. His record suffers in the comparison with Wentz, but impossible to compare due to level of competition (what would he have done at NDSU, and Wentz at Cal, we'll never know, a fundamental unanswerable that is emblematic of the inherent challenges scouting is fraught with). He did better as a Soph, though I don't think he had a winning record, showed improvement each season as he climbed the ladder of national recognition himself (now finds himself on the top rung with Wentz in their own tier, they are represented by the same agent and worked out together, in a friendly competition, I think both have respect for each other's different skills and game they bring to the table, respectively). Than he almost singlehandedly elevated Cal, and put them on his back to an 8-5 season. So he showed a lot of grit and toughness in hanging in there, and that is reflected in and mirrored by his toughness in the pocket. They are both studs, imo, just in different ways.
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Vintage Rams QB Trades - Good and Bad
Blast From The Past QB Trade - Bert Jones (SI Vault 5-1-82)
L.A. Gets A New Leading Man
Owner Georgia Frontiere recast her Rams by trading two high draft picks to Baltimore for superstar quarterback Bert Jones
[Rams traded the #4 overall pick and a high second rounder for the 30 year old Jones, and a neck injury forced him to retire after just four games.]
http://www.si.com/vault/1982/05/10/628364/la-gets-a-new-leading-man
Blast From The Past QB Trade - Jim Everett (NY Times 1-14-90)
How Two Trades Rehorned the Rams
"Excerpt - Maybe it's the Hollywood influence*. But the Rams have always been the N.F.L.'s most daring traders. In 1953 they acquired Les Richter, a roughneck linebacker, from the Dallas Texans for 11 players. In 1957 they acquired Ollie Matson, a Hall of Fame running back, from the Chicago Cardinals for eight players plus a draft choice. In 1971 they dealt six players, including two linebackers, Jack Pardee and Maxie Baughn, to the Washington Redskins for another linebacker, Marlin McKeever, and seven draft choices."
"And as the 1987 season progressed, Eric Dickerson, who would rush for 7,245 yards in less than five years with the Rams, created a scene over his contract. It provoked a triangular trade that sent him to the Indianpolis Colts and the Colts' rights to the rookie linebacker, Cornelius Bennett, to the Buffalo Bills. In that deal, the Rams received two running backs: Greg Bell, who rushed for 1,137 yards this season, and Owen Gill, no longer in pro football. They also got three first-round choices and three second-round choices, who turned out to be Aaron Cox, Gaston Green, Fred Strickland, Cleveland Gary, Frank Stams and Darryl Henley."
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/01/14/sports/sports-of-the-times-how-two-trades-rehorned-the-rams.html
* When I look at the meager, paltry returns the Rams parlayed from THREE firsts AND seconds (!!!) in the Dickerson trade, maybe it wasn't the Hollywood influence but having their brains baked by the famed LALA land sun by way of explanation?
Blast From The Past QB Trade - Bert Jones (SI Vault 5-1-82)
L.A. Gets A New Leading Man
Owner Georgia Frontiere recast her Rams by trading two high draft picks to Baltimore for superstar quarterback Bert Jones
[Rams traded the #4 overall pick and a high second rounder for the 30 year old Jones, and a neck injury forced him to retire after just four games.]
http://www.si.com/vault/1982/05/10/628364/la-gets-a-new-leading-man
Blast From The Past QB Trade - Jim Everett (NY Times 1-14-90)
How Two Trades Rehorned the Rams
"Excerpt - Maybe it's the Hollywood influence*. But the Rams have always been the N.F.L.'s most daring traders. In 1953 they acquired Les Richter, a roughneck linebacker, from the Dallas Texans for 11 players. In 1957 they acquired Ollie Matson, a Hall of Fame running back, from the Chicago Cardinals for eight players plus a draft choice. In 1971 they dealt six players, including two linebackers, Jack Pardee and Maxie Baughn, to the Washington Redskins for another linebacker, Marlin McKeever, and seven draft choices."
"And as the 1987 season progressed, Eric Dickerson, who would rush for 7,245 yards in less than five years with the Rams, created a scene over his contract. It provoked a triangular trade that sent him to the Indianpolis Colts and the Colts' rights to the rookie linebacker, Cornelius Bennett, to the Buffalo Bills. In that deal, the Rams received two running backs: Greg Bell, who rushed for 1,137 yards this season, and Owen Gill, no longer in pro football. They also got three first-round choices and three second-round choices, who turned out to be Aaron Cox, Gaston Green, Fred Strickland, Cleveland Gary, Frank Stams and Darryl Henley."
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/01/14/sports/sports-of-the-times-how-two-trades-rehorned-the-rams.html
* When I look at the meager, paltry returns the Rams parlayed from THREE firsts AND seconds (!!!) in the Dickerson trade, maybe it wasn't the Hollywood influence but having their brains baked by the famed LALA land sun by way of explanation?
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By trading for DeMarco and now these picks, (if you go by mocks) the Titans have had a curious dramatic effect on RBs in the draft. Other than Elliot, every RB seems to have fallen since January. I get it, a writer (or every writer) sees the Titans with enough backs so that's not a need to fill OR they have more pressing needs. After Blount re-signed some have taken the Pats pick of a RB (two late seconds) and changed it too.
I smell a trade up scenario for a RB needy team, into the 2nd round
I smell a trade up scenario for a RB needy team, into the 2nd round
I haven't listened, gotta run out now but-
Jim Wyatt was followed by Mary Kay as guests on this radio show yesterday. Perfect timing and scheduling of guests- https://www.pressboxonline.com/fantasy
Jim Wyatt was followed by Mary Kay as guests on this radio show yesterday. Perfect timing and scheduling of guests- https://www.pressboxonline.com/fantasy
massraider
Footballguy
Why wouldn't the Rams sign Anquan Boldin? Why wouldn't they run out and get a guy like him to help a rookie starter? Because they ain't drafting him a stud this year. Well, most likely not. (never say 'no way').
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Maybe they will, James Jones also on the street.
After #1, Rams have two fourth and two sixths.
Hoping for 2-3 of the following group:
WRs Higgins (All-American) and MoBo (Matt Jones-lite physical tools and athletic prodigy, bigger, faster, quicker and more explosive Jordy Nelson).
TEs Cajuste (6.49 one of best 3-Cones in combine history, has hands, poor man's, slower Devin Funchess), Higbee (recently arrested for assault or battery, but reportedly defending his girlfriend from an abusive, physical serial alcoholic) and Adams.
K Fairbairn (great butler name - Lay out the riding clothes for the fox hunt, Fairbairn ).
After #1, Rams have two fourth and two sixths.
Hoping for 2-3 of the following group:
WRs Higgins (All-American) and MoBo (Matt Jones-lite physical tools and athletic prodigy, bigger, faster, quicker and more explosive Jordy Nelson).
TEs Cajuste (6.49 one of best 3-Cones in combine history, has hands, poor man's, slower Devin Funchess), Higbee (recently arrested for assault or battery, but reportedly defending his girlfriend from an abusive, physical serial alcoholic) and Adams.
K Fairbairn (great butler name - Lay out the riding clothes for the fox hunt, Fairbairn
).
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Beat writer mock draft - Wentz & Goff go 1-2 (LA Times)
[www.latimes.com]
1) LA - Carson Wentz, QB, North Dakota State – The Rams wowed star-driven Los Angeles and the NFL by trading up to draft a quarterback. It will be the second time in seven years the franchise takes a quarterback No. 1.
Wentz does not have major-school pedigree like talented Jared Goff, but he played in a pro-style system and has the tools, temperament and upside worthy of the pick.
2) CLE - Jared Goff, QB, California – The Browns have not drafted a quarterback in the top five since Tim Couch in 1999.
Goff has demonstrated the ability to be the quarterback that this franchise has sorely needed. Hue Jackson coached at Cal, has a special place in his heart for the school, and loves Cal guys.
—Mary Kay Cabot, Cleveland Plain Dealer
* Hue Jackson Cal connection? Did not know that. I knew former CIN WR Marvin Jones was from Cal.
He was OC/QB coach at Cal in '96, his first OC gig and penultimate collegiate stop before ascending to the NFL ranks (also OC and either QB or RB coach for USC from '97-'00).
[www.latimes.com]
1) LA - Carson Wentz, QB, North Dakota State – The Rams wowed star-driven Los Angeles and the NFL by trading up to draft a quarterback. It will be the second time in seven years the franchise takes a quarterback No. 1.
Wentz does not have major-school pedigree like talented Jared Goff, but he played in a pro-style system and has the tools, temperament and upside worthy of the pick.
2) CLE - Jared Goff, QB, California – The Browns have not drafted a quarterback in the top five since Tim Couch in 1999.
Goff has demonstrated the ability to be the quarterback that this franchise has sorely needed. Hue Jackson coached at Cal, has a special place in his heart for the school, and loves Cal guys.
—Mary Kay Cabot, Cleveland Plain Dealer
* Hue Jackson Cal connection? Did not know that. I knew former CIN WR Marvin Jones was from Cal.
He was OC/QB coach at Cal in '96, his first OC gig and penultimate collegiate stop before ascending to the NFL ranks (also OC and either QB or RB coach for USC from '97-'00).
massraider
Footballguy
They need to stop with this idea that the Rams made a move for a QB because they moved to LA.
If Snead and Fisher did that, they all need to be fired.
If Snead and Fisher did that, they all need to be fired.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Clearly they needed a QB with Case Keenum atop the depth chart, that much is obvious to most.
If a high profile, historic move up half the first round to #1 overall coincides with the move back to LA and first Hard Knocks appearance, thereby generating additional buzz (locally, regionally and nationally), that is on the bonus plan, and nothing wrong with that.
If a high profile, historic move up half the first round to #1 overall coincides with the move back to LA and first Hard Knocks appearance, thereby generating additional buzz (locally, regionally and nationally), that is on the bonus plan, and nothing wrong with that.
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massraider
Footballguy
It's a minor quibble of mine, because they are an NFL team, moving to LA. Ummm, the buzz is already there.
Wins will make them money, not a fresh new QB.
We heard this with the Texans and Vince Young. They needed to bring the local guy in, local buzz!! All any NFL team needs to do is win.
Wins will make them money, not a fresh new QB.
We heard this with the Texans and Vince Young. They needed to bring the local guy in, local buzz!! All any NFL team needs to do is win.
So how do the Rams get more wins?
If you watch any Rams game and don't say at least 3 times a half "If only they had a QB this team would be a playoff contender" then I have no idea what anyone thinks will help this team. One playoff game in the next 2 years and it won't matter how awesome TEN does with all those picks the Rams win this deal.
They made the move because they need a QB worse than probably any team in the league. They have been proving since the RG3 trade that you can build a terrific defense but it needs to be beyond great to play without a capable QB. It helps that the move for a new QB will generate excitement in their new city and may also give Fisher/Snead some breathing room.
I feel like both QB's are more than capable of being NFL starters and both guys are better than Case Keenum right now
I also think they are taking Wentz not Goff
If you watch any Rams game and don't say at least 3 times a half "If only they had a QB this team would be a playoff contender" then I have no idea what anyone thinks will help this team. One playoff game in the next 2 years and it won't matter how awesome TEN does with all those picks the Rams win this deal.
They made the move because they need a QB worse than probably any team in the league. They have been proving since the RG3 trade that you can build a terrific defense but it needs to be beyond great to play without a capable QB. It helps that the move for a new QB will generate excitement in their new city and may also give Fisher/Snead some breathing room.
I feel like both QB's are more than capable of being NFL starters and both guys are better than Case Keenum right now
I also think they are taking Wentz not Goff
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
We agree they needed a QB (just not how they did it).
If you don't think this move has generated additional buzz for the Rams (are the national media and NFL Network talking about anything else but Goff vs. Wentz?
), agree to disagree.Not only do I not find a QB upgrade (young in this case) mutually exclusive with positively impacting W-L record (how did that work out in the case of Carr*, young doesn't necessarily = bad?), but think they can be intimately connected. When OAK had no hope due to no franchise QB, did it negatively impact ticket sales? Now that they have a young franchise QB that gives the team and fan base hope, even if they aren't stringing together 11-5, 12-4, 13-3 records yet, nonetheless does the increased excitement help with ticket sales?
Dr. Miguelito Loveless and Richard Kiel (Wild, Wild West) had some superficial similarities. They had faces. Both taller than an inch and shorter that a Giant Redwood tree. Not descended from the lobster family. But they probably have a lot more differences (not sure what Wentz from NDSU has to do with local product VY and HOU?).
You seem to be conflating the idea that the Rams legitimately need a QB, with the idea that increased buzz generated could translate to increased ticket sales for a new/old team that skipped over a generation of fans. They aren't necessarily mutually exclusive propositions.
* Carr wasn't taken #1 but 2.1, but that really isn't the point, and in retrospect, nobody would argue if he was taken higher.
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massraider
Footballguy
I'm not saying it isn't creating buzz. People are talking about the Rams. Not an easy task since Martz left town. No offense.
I have a serious problem, when people are breaking down why the Rams won or lost, to see buzz listed.
It should be a football decision, only. I'm not saying that the Rams did it for any reason other than football. I'm saying the potential buzz/money/ticket sales doesn't affect whether or not the trade was a win, that's all.
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
I was just responding to the buzz is already there comment, I think it can and has been increased. Agreed, and none taken.
Also agree it is silly if anybody thinks buzz would be the sole criteria that prompted and motivated the trade, and to think it is anything other than to fill by far the biggest hole on the roster, the need is too obvious to require explanation. It isn't a detonator, we don't need a schematic.
I'm only referring to increased buzz in terms of a BYPRODUCT. To me, it is a given the intent is to win more. IF as a BYPRODUCT additional buzz sells a few more tickets (not talking about the "who won the trade" debate, though that does overlap with this thread), that imo can seemingly only be a positive and bonus.
I think we pretty much agree, but were just talking about the same thing in different ways.
* You could actually be right, in the sense LA sold 48,000 season ticket block reservation priority deposits (albeit a refundable $100) in about 48 hours. That can be for up to eight seats, so with pretty much everybody getting at least two, some getting four or more, likely closer to only half will even make the cut. And that happened BEFORE the trade.
OTOH, things can change. How old is Levi Stadium? I realize some here railed on how bad it was, and sure enough, already reports of some people possibly walking away (PFT). The 49ers could sue, but what if a lot of people walk away? Though that may have more to do with the depleted product on the field and beleaguered, maligned ownership and front office, than the venue itself (though that also sounds problematic and ill-conceived).
Also agree it is silly if anybody thinks buzz would be the sole criteria that prompted and motivated the trade, and to think it is anything other than to fill by far the biggest hole on the roster, the need is too obvious to require explanation. It isn't a detonator, we don't need a schematic.
I'm only referring to increased buzz in terms of a BYPRODUCT. To me, it is a given the intent is to win more. IF as a BYPRODUCT additional buzz sells a few more tickets (not talking about the "who won the trade" debate, though that does overlap with this thread), that imo can seemingly only be a positive and bonus.
I think we pretty much agree, but were just talking about the same thing in different ways.
* You could actually be right, in the sense LA sold 48,000 season ticket block reservation priority deposits (albeit a refundable $100) in about 48 hours. That can be for up to eight seats, so with pretty much everybody getting at least two, some getting four or more, likely closer to only half will even make the cut. And that happened BEFORE the trade.
OTOH, things can change. How old is Levi Stadium? I realize some here railed on how bad it was, and sure enough, already reports of some people possibly walking away (PFT). The 49ers could sue, but what if a lot of people walk away? Though that may have more to do with the depleted product on the field and beleaguered, maligned ownership and front office, than the venue itself (though that also sounds problematic and ill-conceived).
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Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Peter King - MMQB
How a Deal for One is Done
The Titans and Rams pulled off one of the biggest trades in NFL draft history. Here’s how it went down, from a serendipitous situation at the combine to the transaction’s consummation in the cab of a pickup truck
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/04/19/titans-rams-draft-trade-inside
The Titans and Rams pulled off one of the biggest trades in NFL draft history. Here’s how it went down, from a serendipitous situation at the combine to the transaction’s consummation in the cab of a pickup truck
“In a few years, I’ll either be lauded, or there’ll be a for-sale sign in the yard of that nice house I just bought. But that’s the nature of this business: You better not be scared to make a deal, or you’ll never make it.”
—Titans GM Jon Robinson, on trading the No. 1 pick in the 2016 draft.
* * *
Each year at the combine in Indianapolis, the NFL holds a lottery to see which team sits in which suite to watch the workouts. Sometimes coaches and scouts sit down lower, in the stands; sometimes they sit in the suites upstairs, with a desk on which to take notes and the TV to watch replays of the dashes and the workouts. This year, the lottery left the Titans and Rams as neighbors at the suite level.
“The Titans,” Los Angeles GM Les Snead thought to himself on the first day of the combine, seeing Tennessee GM Jon Robinson and his staff next door. “This will be convenient.”
The Rams had the 15th pick in the draft, and a quarterback need. The Titans had the first pick in the draft, and holes all over the roster except at quarterback after drafting Marcus Mariota last year. So many other things about this match looked promising from the start. Snead, in his four years as GM, had made eight trades involving picks in the top 50 of drafts. Robinson was bold too. There wasn’t the kind of no-doubt prospect at the top of the draft that would make Robinson turn down all offers for the pick. “From the start,” said Rams COO Kevin Demoff, “the situation was serendipitous for both teams.”
This is the story of how it got from serendipitous to real, how the Titans and Rams made one of the biggest trades in NFL draft history, how the Rams positioned themselves to take their long-term quarterback, and how the Titans got six picks to remake a team with a major talent gap.
* * *
Snead stepped out of his box at the combine one day, nine weeks before the draft, and saw Robinson. “I know we’re in the beginning stages,” Snead said, “but we might have an interest in coming up to number one. Are you willing to go down?”
“Yes, if the deal is right,” Robinson said.
“All the way to 15?” Snead said.
“We could,” Robinson said.
No terms were discussed that day. But Snead left the combine, and he and fellow Ram brain-trusters Jeff Fisher, Demoff and senior assistant Tony Pastoors felt that Tennessee wouldn’t just be all talk. The Rams were so motivated that, very quietly, they set up on-campus workouts with the two objects of their quarterback affections, North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz and Cal’s Jared Goff, on back-to-back days in Fargo, N.D., and Berkeley, Calif., just after the combine. Both were working out in Irvine, Calif., but because NFL rules mandates that prospects work out only on their college campuses, Wentz flew back to Fargo for the workout on Sunday, March 6, and Goff went back to Berkeley for his March 7 workout.
One problem: Wentz’s home field, the Fargodome, was occupied that Sunday with the Red River Valley Sportsmen’s Show, with RVs on the football field, so the Rams’ contingent worked him out at the smaller bubble by the NDSU campus. But the workout and post-workout time together went well. Wentz was mature beyond his years, and the Rams thought the player and the person wouldn’t be overwhelmed by the expectations of being the Next Big Thing in L.A. Then the Rams group flew to Berkeley and met Goff on Sunday night. “I hope it rains tomorrow,” Goff told Snead, which he took to mean he hoped the conditions were tough so he could show he could play in any weather. His workout was good, too—and it did rain. “They were both in the Tier 1 of workouts we’d seen since we came to the Rams,” said Snead, who has seen workouts of Blake Bortles, Teddy Bridgewater, Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota, among other passers. “We left Cal that day thinking both would be very successful in the NFL.
Curiously, the Rams were sprinting to the finish to get the quarterbacks evaluated. Why? Because the NFL league year began March 9, and when they made the deal with Washington on the Robert Griffin III mega-trade in 2012, that happened close to the opening of the league year. So the organization wanted to be ready if—as long a shot as it appeared—the Titans said they wanted to pull the trigger when the league year opened March 9.
But Robinson wasn’t ready for that. He wanted his staff to do its diligence on the top picks, and so for much of March he and his scouts studied the players. He won’t say it, but it’s pretty clear: If Tennessee felt tackle Laremy Tunsil or cornerback Jalen Ramsey were going to be Anthony Munoz or Deion Sanders, Robinson would have had serious doubts about moving back. Snead and Robinson kept talking and texting, but nothing of great substance got done.
On March 28, at Tunsil’s Pro Day at Ole Miss, Snead and Robinson found themselves together on the sidelines in Oxford, Miss., watching the Mississippi prospects work out for the scouts. Snead told Robinson: “This thing’s being covered by the networks. We could really start some rumors here.”
“We started rough-sketching a time frame of when the deal would have to be done by,” said Robinson. “There was no offer made there, but I let them know what was pretty important to me—the two twos.”
The Rams had the 43rd and 45th overall picks, in the middle of the second round. All along, Snead and the Rams wanted to keep one of them. But now it was clear Tennessee wouldn’t do it without both twos. The Rams accepted it, and Snead knew other sweeteners were coming. (L.A.’s additional second-round pick came as part of the trade sending Sam Bradford to Philadelphia last year, and that actually became a crucial piece in these talks.)
“I told Les that the other part of the number one pick is as soon as we’re out, our logo is off and your logo is up,” Robinson said. “There’s a marketing and branding impact. To me, there was some value in that.”
The two men parted, agreeing to nothing. Three days later, on March 31, Robinson was on the Pro Day trail, as was Snead—in the Dallas-Fort Worth airport’s American Airlines club. “Now,” said Snead, “we got to the significant others.” Sitting in a work cubicle inside the American Airlines club, Snead and Robinson discussed the trade at length, down to the nitty-gritty.
Robinson wanted the Rams’ first-round picks in 2016 and 2017, their two second-round picks this year, and now he told Snead he wanted the Rams’ third-round pick next year as well. This would leave the Rams picking at one … and then not again till pick 76, and then with only one pick in the first three rounds next year. Snead didn’t think that was unreasonable, nor did the rest of his team, to be able to get the quarterback of the future the franchise lacked.
But each side wanted time to let this sink in—and to figure out if that was enough. Los Angeles would have done that deal right then: L.A.’s first three picks this year and first and third-rounders next year. But Tennessee wasn’t ready to do anything yet; the Titans agreed that if there was going to be a deal made, each side would like to make it at least two weeks before the trade, so the Rams could call off a bunch of fact-finding trips for good players who might fit at 15, 43 and 45 … and so Tennessee could begin to investigate a whole bunch more prospects in the second and third rounds this year.
“At one point,” Robinson said, “I told Les that the other part of the number one pick is as soon as we’re out, our logo is off and your logo is up, you control the top of the draft, there’s a marketing and branding impact, you’re in the pole position, you’ve got great stuff for ‘Hard Knocks’ [the Rams are the NFL’s chosen team for the NFL Films/HBO series this summer] and we’re out. To me, there was some value in that. You get two weeks of branding and marketing.”
On April 9, a Saturday, Robinson and Snead talked again, with no finality. It was still sinking in, and each side had talked to ownership, Robinson to Amy Adams Strunk with the Titans and Snead and Demoff to Stan Kroenke of the Rams. Both owners were kept abreast throughout, and each GM said his owner backed whatever the final call would be from their football people. Robinson mentioned wanting this year’s third-round pick, with the understanding that the Rams could talk about sweeteners from their end too. For Robinson, part of what made the deal attractive was having the ammo to move back into the top 10 if a player he coveted fell on the night of the first round April 28.
They kept talking. Each side had accepted the reality of making the move, and each side knew a deal was very possible. “I got the sense they really coveted the pick,” Robinson said. “They never said, ‘We’ll do that deal,’ but we were close. And I thought I could maximize the deal and maybe get a little extra.” Now they were getting to their soft two-week deadline.
Last Wednesday, 15 days before the draft, Snead called Robinson at 6:30 a.m. Pacific Time, on his way into work. This was the day, Robinson thought, where each side had to decide.
At one point, Robinson told Snead: “You give me your three this year, and I flip you our four this year, and that gets it done. That gets it done today.”
The last sweetener. That gets it done today. “Now it was real,” Snead said. “Now it was you either strike or you don’t. Sleep on it tonight, and you never know what happens … or who might drop out.”
Snead said he’d get back to him, and he started thinking. This was no asterisk on the trade. This was moving from 76 (the Rams’ third-round pick) to Tennessee’s fourth-round choice, number 113 overall. In the office, Snead and Fisher talked—they were due to have draft meetings that day, but this took precedent. “Tennessee’s ready to dance,” Snead said. The Rams thought they needed a little something back. “Our cherry on top was we wanted to have a sixth for that move,” said Snead. Robinson agreed, including the 177th pick overall, Tennessee’s early sixth-rounder, in the deal.
Now the terms were these that the Rams mulled:
The Rams acquire: First, fourth and sixth-round picks this year, picks 1, 113 and 177 overall.
The Titans acquire: First, second, second and third-round picks this year (picks 15, 43, 45 and 76), plus the Rams’ first and third-round picks next year.
A few hours passed. “I was trying to close on a house that same day,” said Robinson. “I had to pop out and go sign papers at one point. I actually went to the house, 25 minutes away, and had my family with me.”
His phone pinged. Text from Snead: “You have a few minutes? Jeff and I want to talk to you.”
Robinson went out to his truck, fittingly a Nissan Titan XD, and sat in the cab. Now there was one last thing the Rams wanted, a previously unreported piece of this trade that Snead called “the only real sort of contentious thing that came up.” Snead broached this idea with Robinson: If the Rams got a compensatory 2017 third-round pick for losing Janoris Jenkins in free-agency, they’d trade the lower pick, the compensatory third-rounder, to Tennessee next year. If they didn’t get a compensatory third-round pick and had to send a higher pick to Tennessee, the Titans should give back a seventh-round pick.
“Jon,” Fisher said, “this is a big day out here today. It’s Kobe Bryant’s last game, and Golden State’s got this game to break the record. Out of respect for this area, could we hold off announcing it till tomorrow?”
“We haggled a few minutes,” Robinson said. “They wanted a little kickback.” Robinson balked at first; he already had the third-rounder next year, essentially. But he understood the Rams’ position too: the difference between a high third-round pick and a compensatory third-round pick could be 30 slots. He thought it was a fair ask. So Robinson agreed to include the conditional seventh-round pick in 2017, if the Rams sent their own choice to Tennessee next year instead of a compensatory.
Now it was over.
In Brentwood, Tenn., Robinson sat in the cab of his truck in the driveway of his new place and said: “Congratulations, guys. You’re the proud new owners of the first pick of the draft.”
In Oxnard, Snead and Fisher smiled, said nothing, and fist-bumped.
One postscript:
Fisher had one ask for Robinson. “Jon,” he said, “this is a big day out here today. It’s Kobe Bryant’s last game, and Golden State’s got this game to break the record. Out of respect for this area and this region, could we hold off announcing it till tomorrow? You guys can announce it.”
No problem with that, Robinson said.
At 7:56 a.m. Central Time the next morning, the Titans notified the league office of the trade details. At 8:03 a.m. CT, the Titans announced the trade.
* * *
For the Rams, there is no looking back, no internal regret; they might have stayed where they were at 15, 43, 45 and 76 and taken nice players, maybe a receiver with promise like Josh Doctson of TCU at 15, a safety and tackle at 43 and 45, a corner at 76. But those are pieces of the puzzle, they reasoned. Needed pieces, but pieces like the ones Snead and Fisher had picked with their 37 previous choices, many that had been acquired in aggressive trades. When they looked at their roster, they didn’t have a guy they were confident could be their quarterback of the future. Word is Goff is the leader for the top pick, but they’re still doing their homework on both players. They took Wentz out to dinner in California on Monday night and will do the same this week with Goff after he visits the team.
For Robinson, this was his point: “The second and third rounds are going to be solid rounds. You can get guys who can really help your football team, and help early. The defensive line is a deep class. The secondary, with some of the underclassmen coming out, is bolstered. The wide receiver group—not a Calvin Johnson in the class, but there are role starting receivers and third receivers, if you will, fairly deep into the draft. And then offensive line, there’s a good core of guys. I don’t know historically off the top of my head, but there are plenty of guys in this draft, you can find good solid ones from the top into the top of the third day of the draft.
“Our thought process was to: A, accumulate high picks in this draft so we can improve our roster; and B, improve next year’s draft, so we have currency to move and manipulate in that draft. Here, I think we were able to take the number one pick and be a real build-through-the-draft team.”
The beauty of draft trading is there isn’t a winner or loser today. There won’t be a year from now, either. Two or three years from now, we’ll know. The Titans will need three or four pieces from the trade to start and play well to feel great about what they’ve done. And if the quarterback the Rams choose is a keeper, well, no one will say they gave up too much. But today, no one knows who won.
How a Deal for One is Done
The Titans and Rams pulled off one of the biggest trades in NFL draft history. Here’s how it went down, from a serendipitous situation at the combine to the transaction’s consummation in the cab of a pickup truck
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/04/19/titans-rams-draft-trade-inside
The Titans and Rams pulled off one of the biggest trades in NFL draft history. Here’s how it went down, from a serendipitous situation at the combine to the transaction’s consummation in the cab of a pickup truck
“In a few years, I’ll either be lauded, or there’ll be a for-sale sign in the yard of that nice house I just bought. But that’s the nature of this business: You better not be scared to make a deal, or you’ll never make it.”
—Titans GM Jon Robinson, on trading the No. 1 pick in the 2016 draft.
* * *
Each year at the combine in Indianapolis, the NFL holds a lottery to see which team sits in which suite to watch the workouts. Sometimes coaches and scouts sit down lower, in the stands; sometimes they sit in the suites upstairs, with a desk on which to take notes and the TV to watch replays of the dashes and the workouts. This year, the lottery left the Titans and Rams as neighbors at the suite level.
“The Titans,” Los Angeles GM Les Snead thought to himself on the first day of the combine, seeing Tennessee GM Jon Robinson and his staff next door. “This will be convenient.”
The Rams had the 15th pick in the draft, and a quarterback need. The Titans had the first pick in the draft, and holes all over the roster except at quarterback after drafting Marcus Mariota last year. So many other things about this match looked promising from the start. Snead, in his four years as GM, had made eight trades involving picks in the top 50 of drafts. Robinson was bold too. There wasn’t the kind of no-doubt prospect at the top of the draft that would make Robinson turn down all offers for the pick. “From the start,” said Rams COO Kevin Demoff, “the situation was serendipitous for both teams.”
This is the story of how it got from serendipitous to real, how the Titans and Rams made one of the biggest trades in NFL draft history, how the Rams positioned themselves to take their long-term quarterback, and how the Titans got six picks to remake a team with a major talent gap.
* * *
Snead stepped out of his box at the combine one day, nine weeks before the draft, and saw Robinson. “I know we’re in the beginning stages,” Snead said, “but we might have an interest in coming up to number one. Are you willing to go down?”
“Yes, if the deal is right,” Robinson said.
“All the way to 15?” Snead said.
“We could,” Robinson said.
No terms were discussed that day. But Snead left the combine, and he and fellow Ram brain-trusters Jeff Fisher, Demoff and senior assistant Tony Pastoors felt that Tennessee wouldn’t just be all talk. The Rams were so motivated that, very quietly, they set up on-campus workouts with the two objects of their quarterback affections, North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz and Cal’s Jared Goff, on back-to-back days in Fargo, N.D., and Berkeley, Calif., just after the combine. Both were working out in Irvine, Calif., but because NFL rules mandates that prospects work out only on their college campuses, Wentz flew back to Fargo for the workout on Sunday, March 6, and Goff went back to Berkeley for his March 7 workout.
One problem: Wentz’s home field, the Fargodome, was occupied that Sunday with the Red River Valley Sportsmen’s Show, with RVs on the football field, so the Rams’ contingent worked him out at the smaller bubble by the NDSU campus. But the workout and post-workout time together went well. Wentz was mature beyond his years, and the Rams thought the player and the person wouldn’t be overwhelmed by the expectations of being the Next Big Thing in L.A. Then the Rams group flew to Berkeley and met Goff on Sunday night. “I hope it rains tomorrow,” Goff told Snead, which he took to mean he hoped the conditions were tough so he could show he could play in any weather. His workout was good, too—and it did rain. “They were both in the Tier 1 of workouts we’d seen since we came to the Rams,” said Snead, who has seen workouts of Blake Bortles, Teddy Bridgewater, Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota, among other passers. “We left Cal that day thinking both would be very successful in the NFL.
Curiously, the Rams were sprinting to the finish to get the quarterbacks evaluated. Why? Because the NFL league year began March 9, and when they made the deal with Washington on the Robert Griffin III mega-trade in 2012, that happened close to the opening of the league year. So the organization wanted to be ready if—as long a shot as it appeared—the Titans said they wanted to pull the trigger when the league year opened March 9.
But Robinson wasn’t ready for that. He wanted his staff to do its diligence on the top picks, and so for much of March he and his scouts studied the players. He won’t say it, but it’s pretty clear: If Tennessee felt tackle Laremy Tunsil or cornerback Jalen Ramsey were going to be Anthony Munoz or Deion Sanders, Robinson would have had serious doubts about moving back. Snead and Robinson kept talking and texting, but nothing of great substance got done.
On March 28, at Tunsil’s Pro Day at Ole Miss, Snead and Robinson found themselves together on the sidelines in Oxford, Miss., watching the Mississippi prospects work out for the scouts. Snead told Robinson: “This thing’s being covered by the networks. We could really start some rumors here.”
“We started rough-sketching a time frame of when the deal would have to be done by,” said Robinson. “There was no offer made there, but I let them know what was pretty important to me—the two twos.”
The Rams had the 43rd and 45th overall picks, in the middle of the second round. All along, Snead and the Rams wanted to keep one of them. But now it was clear Tennessee wouldn’t do it without both twos. The Rams accepted it, and Snead knew other sweeteners were coming. (L.A.’s additional second-round pick came as part of the trade sending Sam Bradford to Philadelphia last year, and that actually became a crucial piece in these talks.)
“I told Les that the other part of the number one pick is as soon as we’re out, our logo is off and your logo is up,” Robinson said. “There’s a marketing and branding impact. To me, there was some value in that.”
The two men parted, agreeing to nothing. Three days later, on March 31, Robinson was on the Pro Day trail, as was Snead—in the Dallas-Fort Worth airport’s American Airlines club. “Now,” said Snead, “we got to the significant others.” Sitting in a work cubicle inside the American Airlines club, Snead and Robinson discussed the trade at length, down to the nitty-gritty.
Robinson wanted the Rams’ first-round picks in 2016 and 2017, their two second-round picks this year, and now he told Snead he wanted the Rams’ third-round pick next year as well. This would leave the Rams picking at one … and then not again till pick 76, and then with only one pick in the first three rounds next year. Snead didn’t think that was unreasonable, nor did the rest of his team, to be able to get the quarterback of the future the franchise lacked.
But each side wanted time to let this sink in—and to figure out if that was enough. Los Angeles would have done that deal right then: L.A.’s first three picks this year and first and third-rounders next year. But Tennessee wasn’t ready to do anything yet; the Titans agreed that if there was going to be a deal made, each side would like to make it at least two weeks before the trade, so the Rams could call off a bunch of fact-finding trips for good players who might fit at 15, 43 and 45 … and so Tennessee could begin to investigate a whole bunch more prospects in the second and third rounds this year.
“At one point,” Robinson said, “I told Les that the other part of the number one pick is as soon as we’re out, our logo is off and your logo is up, you control the top of the draft, there’s a marketing and branding impact, you’re in the pole position, you’ve got great stuff for ‘Hard Knocks’ [the Rams are the NFL’s chosen team for the NFL Films/HBO series this summer] and we’re out. To me, there was some value in that. You get two weeks of branding and marketing.”
On April 9, a Saturday, Robinson and Snead talked again, with no finality. It was still sinking in, and each side had talked to ownership, Robinson to Amy Adams Strunk with the Titans and Snead and Demoff to Stan Kroenke of the Rams. Both owners were kept abreast throughout, and each GM said his owner backed whatever the final call would be from their football people. Robinson mentioned wanting this year’s third-round pick, with the understanding that the Rams could talk about sweeteners from their end too. For Robinson, part of what made the deal attractive was having the ammo to move back into the top 10 if a player he coveted fell on the night of the first round April 28.
They kept talking. Each side had accepted the reality of making the move, and each side knew a deal was very possible. “I got the sense they really coveted the pick,” Robinson said. “They never said, ‘We’ll do that deal,’ but we were close. And I thought I could maximize the deal and maybe get a little extra.” Now they were getting to their soft two-week deadline.
Last Wednesday, 15 days before the draft, Snead called Robinson at 6:30 a.m. Pacific Time, on his way into work. This was the day, Robinson thought, where each side had to decide.
At one point, Robinson told Snead: “You give me your three this year, and I flip you our four this year, and that gets it done. That gets it done today.”
The last sweetener. That gets it done today. “Now it was real,” Snead said. “Now it was you either strike or you don’t. Sleep on it tonight, and you never know what happens … or who might drop out.”
Snead said he’d get back to him, and he started thinking. This was no asterisk on the trade. This was moving from 76 (the Rams’ third-round pick) to Tennessee’s fourth-round choice, number 113 overall. In the office, Snead and Fisher talked—they were due to have draft meetings that day, but this took precedent. “Tennessee’s ready to dance,” Snead said. The Rams thought they needed a little something back. “Our cherry on top was we wanted to have a sixth for that move,” said Snead. Robinson agreed, including the 177th pick overall, Tennessee’s early sixth-rounder, in the deal.
Now the terms were these that the Rams mulled:
The Rams acquire: First, fourth and sixth-round picks this year, picks 1, 113 and 177 overall.
The Titans acquire: First, second, second and third-round picks this year (picks 15, 43, 45 and 76), plus the Rams’ first and third-round picks next year.
A few hours passed. “I was trying to close on a house that same day,” said Robinson. “I had to pop out and go sign papers at one point. I actually went to the house, 25 minutes away, and had my family with me.”
His phone pinged. Text from Snead: “You have a few minutes? Jeff and I want to talk to you.”
Robinson went out to his truck, fittingly a Nissan Titan XD, and sat in the cab. Now there was one last thing the Rams wanted, a previously unreported piece of this trade that Snead called “the only real sort of contentious thing that came up.” Snead broached this idea with Robinson: If the Rams got a compensatory 2017 third-round pick for losing Janoris Jenkins in free-agency, they’d trade the lower pick, the compensatory third-rounder, to Tennessee next year. If they didn’t get a compensatory third-round pick and had to send a higher pick to Tennessee, the Titans should give back a seventh-round pick.
“Jon,” Fisher said, “this is a big day out here today. It’s Kobe Bryant’s last game, and Golden State’s got this game to break the record. Out of respect for this area, could we hold off announcing it till tomorrow?”
“We haggled a few minutes,” Robinson said. “They wanted a little kickback.” Robinson balked at first; he already had the third-rounder next year, essentially. But he understood the Rams’ position too: the difference between a high third-round pick and a compensatory third-round pick could be 30 slots. He thought it was a fair ask. So Robinson agreed to include the conditional seventh-round pick in 2017, if the Rams sent their own choice to Tennessee next year instead of a compensatory.
Now it was over.
In Brentwood, Tenn., Robinson sat in the cab of his truck in the driveway of his new place and said: “Congratulations, guys. You’re the proud new owners of the first pick of the draft.”
In Oxnard, Snead and Fisher smiled, said nothing, and fist-bumped.
One postscript:
Fisher had one ask for Robinson. “Jon,” he said, “this is a big day out here today. It’s Kobe Bryant’s last game, and Golden State’s got this game to break the record. Out of respect for this area and this region, could we hold off announcing it till tomorrow? You guys can announce it.”
No problem with that, Robinson said.
At 7:56 a.m. Central Time the next morning, the Titans notified the league office of the trade details. At 8:03 a.m. CT, the Titans announced the trade.
* * *
For the Rams, there is no looking back, no internal regret; they might have stayed where they were at 15, 43, 45 and 76 and taken nice players, maybe a receiver with promise like Josh Doctson of TCU at 15, a safety and tackle at 43 and 45, a corner at 76. But those are pieces of the puzzle, they reasoned. Needed pieces, but pieces like the ones Snead and Fisher had picked with their 37 previous choices, many that had been acquired in aggressive trades. When they looked at their roster, they didn’t have a guy they were confident could be their quarterback of the future. Word is Goff is the leader for the top pick, but they’re still doing their homework on both players. They took Wentz out to dinner in California on Monday night and will do the same this week with Goff after he visits the team.
For Robinson, this was his point: “The second and third rounds are going to be solid rounds. You can get guys who can really help your football team, and help early. The defensive line is a deep class. The secondary, with some of the underclassmen coming out, is bolstered. The wide receiver group—not a Calvin Johnson in the class, but there are role starting receivers and third receivers, if you will, fairly deep into the draft. And then offensive line, there’s a good core of guys. I don’t know historically off the top of my head, but there are plenty of guys in this draft, you can find good solid ones from the top into the top of the third day of the draft.
“Our thought process was to: A, accumulate high picks in this draft so we can improve our roster; and B, improve next year’s draft, so we have currency to move and manipulate in that draft. Here, I think we were able to take the number one pick and be a real build-through-the-draft team.”
The beauty of draft trading is there isn’t a winner or loser today. There won’t be a year from now, either. Two or three years from now, we’ll know. The Titans will need three or four pieces from the trade to start and play well to feel great about what they’ve done. And if the quarterback the Rams choose is a keeper, well, no one will say they gave up too much. But today, no one knows who won.
A year or so ago when Rivers was unhappy about all this moving stuff and stadium ideas and even mentioned retirement, this same issue was discussed. It wasn't that they needed a rookie QB but now some say it with the Rams.massraider said:
Much of all of these articles have an underlying tone that fans are idiots- an unspoken not mentioned point yet ooh look at this shiny object.
I think it's simple like you said-win, with the QB just give them a good one regardless of age.
Fish and the Rams started seeming like they were selling snake-oil when they tried to convince the world Case Keenum would be their guy. Four? months later I still can't believe they spoke as such. I wonder if they draft a QB and start Case week one just because. That tangent is their doing and Fish can eat his crow for that. He's got a long NFL career I'm certain he is aware. I don't think it affects him or his history or anything just maybe Fish shouldn't go into politics or sales after football.
If the Cowboys draft Tunsil they have (probably) the greatest OL ever on paper since the entire OL would be first rounders.
If they draft Ramsey, they'll have three of four DBs as first rounders.
They ought to be able to block well enough and defend ODB(and others) well enough without adding either.
They don't need to draft where they are.
If a QB goes one and two, then I think they're the next most likely to trade down. They have needs (WR is glaring to me) but those can all be filled later.
I think the Chargers (or maybe it's their prideful fan base?) are wayyy worse than people say. It shouldn't just be the Browns and Titans can benefit from many picks and a trade down. They should be in that conversation too.
There's nothing wrong with them adding Tunsil or them replacing Weddle with Ramsey or playing him at CB or whatever. It's all nice quality picks, but I'm afraid they're going to be back at the top next year. I don't like the similarity of underperforming rookie RB Sankey/Gordon and adding a tackle Lewan/Tunsil but it's a fine philosophy despite Whisenhunt- The runner and the blocker.
There have been so many Sundays that it seemed Rivers to Gates was their offense. That well is drying up.
I still have hope for Gordon and Keenan looks special at times but unless those two step up, they'll be right back at the top of the draft next year. The Raiders have got good (on paper) real quick. The Broncos just won the Supe. The Chiefs have a stable of RBs the Chargers can't stop. It's not an easy division for them to improve within
If they draft Ramsey, they'll have three of four DBs as first rounders.
They ought to be able to block well enough and defend ODB(and others) well enough without adding either.
They don't need to draft where they are.
If a QB goes one and two, then I think they're the next most likely to trade down. They have needs (WR is glaring to me) but those can all be filled later.
I think the Chargers (or maybe it's their prideful fan base?) are wayyy worse than people say. It shouldn't just be the Browns and Titans can benefit from many picks and a trade down. They should be in that conversation too.
There's nothing wrong with them adding Tunsil or them replacing Weddle with Ramsey or playing him at CB or whatever. It's all nice quality picks, but I'm afraid they're going to be back at the top next year. I don't like the similarity of underperforming rookie RB Sankey/Gordon and adding a tackle Lewan/Tunsil but it's a fine philosophy despite Whisenhunt- The runner and the blocker.
There have been so many Sundays that it seemed Rivers to Gates was their offense. That well is drying up.
I still have hope for Gordon and Keenan looks special at times but unless those two step up, they'll be right back at the top of the draft next year. The Raiders have got good (on paper) real quick. The Broncos just won the Supe. The Chiefs have a stable of RBs the Chargers can't stop. It's not an easy division for them to improve within
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
Bri, Fisher and Snead noted Keenum was their QB at the time (which in itself, the wording could have been a giveaway ). Just like they said Bradford was their QB last year. Which may have been true at the time, before getting the proverbial "offer they couldn't refuse (and in fact the pick that ended up being PHIs #43, may have been instrumental in LA boxing out - PHI). They aren't obligated to tell the truth. If their intention was to trade up to #1, they weren't going to alert the media and hold a press conference. Most Rams fans didn't take the Keenum talk very seriously, just at face value, he was the starter THEN. DEN could have some interest in him (why they put the unusually high tender on him, they were concerned if he had a second round tender, DEN would part with it as it is basically a third rounder). Maybe Reid could have interest in Foles (most likely QB to be moved, but his contract complicates that, like Kaepernick, unless he may be willing to renegotiate)?
Goff is supposed to be more advanced and ready to play now (Wentz actually played in a more pro style offense and had more pro style responsibilities, took snaps under center, set OL protections, based on pre-snap keys and reads of defensive alignments and disguised coverages could audible into new plays, made full field reads, etc.). He started three seasons opposed to two by Wentz, level of competition obviously vastly superior (some see McNair in Wentz, who Fisher of course took #3 overall, but he didn't start until his third year, one of the longest waits I can think of for such a highly drafted QB after Palmer's one season wait in CIN - Wentz is much more advanced conceptually than McNair at a comparable stage of development, during the Goff vs. Wentz show on the NFL Network over the weekend, DJ was raving about Wentz in that regard, that he smoked every other high profile QB prospect on the board in interviews and it wasn't close, he has a 4.0 GPA, by all accounts is a workaholic, gym rat, film junkie, strongly religious, loves the game, ultra-competitive, great leader and teammates and coaches gravitate to him, he really, genuinely seems wired right and like he has the "right stuff" and "IT" factor, whatever "IT" is, physically and athletically he reminds me a lot of Roethlisberger, who came from the MAC and also had attendant level of competition concerns, if not quite as severe), and he threw nearly as many passes his Junior/final season as Wentz did in his career -started two seasons. Wentz is a late bloomer. He was 5'8", 120 lbs. as a high school Freshman. In his Junior year his arm was hurt and he wasn't even playing QB so missed that recruiting cycle, didn't even have a Scout.com bio page (and it isn't like North Dakota gets the attention of CA, FL, TX, PA, OH). By his senior year, his only other offer was Central Michigan (former GB WR Greg Jennings, who caught some of Favre's TD records, and a DEN TE from a few years ago went to Western or Eastern?). His predecessor won three national championships, so he didn't start until his Junior season.
Back to Keenum, wouldn't surprise me if Goff starts right away (he reminds some of Matt Ryan, who Snead helped draft in ATL, and he won the job just before his rookie season began), but they may want to start Keenum for a month to six weeks?
There has been increasing chatter as we near the draft that the #3 and even #4 pick are getting interest, but that may need to wait until the #2 pick status resolves.
Hard for me to see DAL going OL (though it would protect Romo better) with so many needs on defense, especially pass rush. If the top two QBs are off the board in the first two picks, teams could covet Tunsil or Ramsey, who many think are rare talents and the top two prospects in the draft at any position, if not for the importance of the QB position taking priority (it would very likely be a smaller move, far less expensive than the cost of getting to #1 or #2).
). Just like they said Bradford was their QB last year. Which may have been true at the time, before getting the proverbial "offer they couldn't refuse (and in fact the pick that ended up being PHIs #43, may have been instrumental in LA boxing out - PHI). They aren't obligated to tell the truth. If their intention was to trade up to #1, they weren't going to alert the media and hold a press conference. Most Rams fans didn't take the Keenum talk very seriously, just at face value, he was the starter THEN. DEN could have some interest in him (why they put the unusually high tender on him, they were concerned if he had a second round tender, DEN would part with it as it is basically a third rounder). Maybe Reid could have interest in Foles (most likely QB to be moved, but his contract complicates that, like Kaepernick, unless he may be willing to renegotiate)?Goff is supposed to be more advanced and ready to play now (Wentz actually played in a more pro style offense and had more pro style responsibilities, took snaps under center, set OL protections, based on pre-snap keys and reads of defensive alignments and disguised coverages could audible into new plays, made full field reads, etc.). He started three seasons opposed to two by Wentz, level of competition obviously vastly superior (some see McNair in Wentz, who Fisher of course took #3 overall, but he didn't start until his third year, one of the longest waits I can think of for such a highly drafted QB after Palmer's one season wait in CIN - Wentz is much more advanced conceptually than McNair at a comparable stage of development, during the Goff vs. Wentz show on the NFL Network over the weekend, DJ was raving about Wentz in that regard, that he smoked every other high profile QB prospect on the board in interviews and it wasn't close, he has a 4.0 GPA, by all accounts is a workaholic, gym rat, film junkie, strongly religious, loves the game, ultra-competitive, great leader and teammates and coaches gravitate to him, he really, genuinely seems wired right and like he has the "right stuff" and "IT" factor, whatever "IT" is, physically and athletically he reminds me a lot of Roethlisberger, who came from the MAC and also had attendant level of competition concerns, if not quite as severe), and he threw nearly as many passes his Junior/final season as Wentz did in his career -started two seasons. Wentz is a late bloomer. He was 5'8", 120 lbs. as a high school Freshman. In his Junior year his arm was hurt and he wasn't even playing QB so missed that recruiting cycle, didn't even have a Scout.com bio page (and it isn't like North Dakota gets the attention of CA, FL, TX, PA, OH). By his senior year, his only other offer was Central Michigan (former GB WR Greg Jennings, who caught some of Favre's TD records, and a DEN TE from a few years ago went to Western or Eastern?). His predecessor won three national championships, so he didn't start until his Junior season.
Back to Keenum, wouldn't surprise me if Goff starts right away (he reminds some of Matt Ryan, who Snead helped draft in ATL, and he won the job just before his rookie season began), but they may want to start Keenum for a month to six weeks?
There has been increasing chatter as we near the draft that the #3 and even #4 pick are getting interest, but that may need to wait until the #2 pick status resolves.
Hard for me to see DAL going OL (though it would protect Romo better) with so many needs on defense, especially pass rush. If the top two QBs are off the board in the first two picks, teams could covet Tunsil or Ramsey, who many think are rare talents and the top two prospects in the draft at any position, if not for the importance of the QB position taking priority (it would very likely be a smaller move, far less expensive than the cost of getting to #1 or #2).
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