Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
That's EXACTLY what I said.So LSU didn’t want to upset Nick Brossett in 2018... ?
That's EXACTLY what I said.So LSU didn’t want to upset Nick Brossett in 2018... ?
What I am saying is they probably have an intention on use if spending a first on him. Next...you either believe in his ability to put his talent to that intended use or not.IMO this is a bad argument. There are plenty of teams that have burned a 1st on a rb only to have him benched, out of the league, or in a significant time share
Speed score is garbage. Well that's a new one. Because that's what that post was largely about. Pulled straight from Football Outsiders's predictive articles. So okay, Football Outsiders doesn't like him. Nobody liked him over fifth RB in the draft but Mike Clay. But he's a surefire one now that he's been picked?There was a lot of garbage in that post, so not really.
We always have these wagon circling threads around marginal talents.I have no idea why this thread sucks so bad, but it really does.
Ha, CEH is apparently a touchy subject.I have no idea why this thread sucks so bad, but it really does.
At least Ruggs probably hits your speed score liking.We always have these wagon circling threads around marginal talents.
Indeed. And so did the other guys I got with the picks I traded into later.At least Ruggs probably hits your speed score liking.
Because it is a tight group of prospects in my opinion. Pre-draft I had Ceedee at the top and now I trying to trade down to make that happen. I don't dislike CEH, I think he will be a good football player and may end up taking him. I am just a receiver first guy in dynasty league. RB's tend to have a short shelf like. My first tier is CEH and Lamb, so it will be one of those dudes if I can't move down.Indeed. And so did the other guys I got with the picks I traded into later.
Aren't you the one that also keeps bemoaning having the first pick? Why is that?
If taking a hardline stance against a prospect (that appears as a no brainer top 2-3 pick at worst) as the 1.01 impacts your blood pressure, then I think you have bigger issues to worry about than CEHs lousy speed score.Not you, King Of The Jungle. Just in general. Arguing this does no good for blood pressure.
Could not agree with this more...last year there were guys questioning Jacobs workload but it was so easy to see...Damien Harris was a quality 4-year RB and Najee was the the #1 RB recruit in the nation who has a legit shot at winning the Heisman this year...it is really not difficult to see why he did not get all the touches...I see something similar with Ruggs...the Bama WR stable had Jeudy, Smith and Waddle as well...there were probably four first round picks playing WR at that position last year...the times are changing where programs like Bama, LSU and Clemson get so much high-end talent that some of the guys may put up better pro numbers then college numbers.And also I'm not sure why people don't get that these top schools (Bama, LSU. OSU, etc.) get the absolute best prospects - and multiple top players at multiple positions - and have to get the all playing time so the next batch of top players don't say "I'm not going to commit to Bama just to sit on the bench for 2 seasons".
Yeah, I don't think so. If anyone had followed the thread, the yeasaying is the constant, not the hardline naysaying.If taking a hardline stance against a prospect (that appears as a no brainer top 2-3 pick at worst) as the 1.01 impacts your blood pressure, then I think you have bigger issues to worry about than CEHs lousy speed score.
His height isn't necessarily a bad thing and the speed score doesn't factor in BMI, so is pretty misleading for players who are either very tall or very short. These are things that I pointed out with the Sproles/MJD/Rice post. I would reconsider some of the extreme skepticism because Clyde looks pretty good in a lot of ways.I'm sick watching it again. Here's a guy who is 5'7", 210, with a lousy speed score and somehow I'm the troublemaker know-nothing in here because I won't trust one year of game highlights from defenses clearly geared to stop other parts of an offense rather than the underneath passing game.
#### this. I'm dropping the mic and leaving. You can have your precious 1.01.
It's a ####ty pick.
You need to calm it a bit. First I know you were just passing along info and I was calling the blurb garbage and not your take. Most of that blurb was garbage and I've already listed some of the seasons why. I do agree that the speed score metric has some merit but I have never been big on analytics when it comes to football. The sport is really not designed for it,Speed score is garbage. Well that's a new one. Because that's what that post was largely about. Pulled straight from Football Outsiders's predictive articles. So okay, Football Outsiders doesn't like him. Nobody liked him over fifth RB in the draft but Mike Clay. But he's a surefire one now that he's been picked?
Sounds like the hive mind is in full effect here. Enjoy your shiny new fire hydrant. I hear it moves (sort of).
Kamara got so little PT at Bama that he had to transfer outright.Could not agree with this more...last year there were guys questioning Jacobs workload but it was so easy to see...Damien Harris was a quality 4-year RB and Najee was the the #1 RB recruit in the nation who has a legit shot at winning the Heisman this year...it is really not difficult to see why he did not get all the touches...I see something similar with Ruggs...the Bama WR stable had Jeudy, Smith and Waddle as well...there were probably four first round picks playing WR at that position last year...the times are changing where programs like Bama, LSU and Clemson get so much high-end talent that some of the guys may put up better pro numbers then college numbers.
I don't know when you took your position but Lacy was very good for a number of years until he ate himself out of the league.Last time this happened to me in the SP (and why I started posting less) was Eddie Lacy. Assured by everyone I had been wrong on Lacy, the only thing for me to do was apologize and leave his threads because a bunch of internet know-it-alls saw Lacy's one good year as proof that his questioners had been wrong about him.
I'm sick watching it again. Here's a guy who is 5'7", 210, with a lousy speed score and somehow I'm the troublemaker know-nothing in here because I won't trust one year of game highlights from defenses clearly geared to stop other parts of an offense rather than the underneath passing game.
#### this. I'm dropping the mic and leaving. You can have your precious 1.01.
It's a ####ty pick.
Right, and you’re letting the yeasaying about a magic football player affect your blood pressure because by God all those people are morons! Odd. Good luck in your quest kind sir.Yeah, I don't think so. If anyone had followed the thread, the yeasaying is the constant, not the hardline naysaying.
Lacy had two good/above average years. He didn't even last three effective years in the league, which might be the standard, anyway (lasting only two good years, that is). He then ate himself out of the league like many of us predicted when we called him overweight. So it's not as cut-and-dry as one good year, but it's close.I don't know when you took your position but Lacy was very good for a number of years until he ate himself out of the league.
I am not a 100% sold on CEH being an elite back by any means but feel pretty confident based on what I have seen he will be in the league for a long time. But the problem is we can say that about all of the prospects this year. His speed wasn't a problem against the SEC but he is definitely not a burner. I even have questioned his power. Things I like: Chiefs, pass catcher, lateral agility, good showing against stiff competition. Things I don't like: not ideal size, not ideal speed. Thing I am unsure of: workload and use, pass pro.Not you, King Of The Jungle. Just in general. Arguing this does no good for blood pressure.
And in return. I'm not personalizing it, hopefully. I'm just flummoxed over the pooh-poohing of tangible measurements all of sudden, from everything up to and including forty times. It's like the anti-deduction crowd in here, replete with only sensory empirical observations.You need to calm it a bit. First I know you were just passing along info and I was calling the blurb garbage and not your take. Most of that blurb was garbage and I've already listed some of the seasons why. I do agree that the speed score metric has some merit but I have never been big on analytics when it comes to football. The sport is really not designed for it,
Sorry this topic seems to agitate you so much - you know I love 'ya.
I wouldn't say the 40 is completely unimportant but some of these guys just can't get the technique (out of the blocks) down correctly. He did not appear slow on the field playing in a Conference that has some NFL level defenses. Some players look slow on the field. Helaire does not.And in return. I'm not personalizing it, hopefully. I'm just flummoxed over the pooh-poohing of tangible measurements all of sudden, from everything up to and including forty times. It's like the anti-deduction crowd in here, replete with only sensory empirical observations.
…...and they don't play football in shorts and tank tops. Track speed and football speed don't always correlate......in both directionsI wouldn't say the 40 is completely unimportant but some of these guys just can't get the technique (out of the blocks) down correctly. He did not appear slow on the field playing in a Conference that has some NFL level defenses. Some players look slow on the field. Helaire does not.
Draft capital is important but just ask Corey Davis, Laquon Treadwell, and others whether it's the be-all end-all. Teams make mistakes. They try their best to accommodate that player with the higher draft capital, but sometimes it's a lost cause.“But he was a first round pick” seems to be the only thing that matters here
I think we are all just clamoring for any in person football news/action. Hard to make any deductions when all we have is info 4 weeks old and coaches excited about a player they haven’t even seen in practice yet
Wow. You've become the king of straw man arguments. Not one person has used that as the only reason. NOT ONE.“But he was a first round pick” seems to be the only thing that matters here
Dude. It's not your take. It's the fact that you have to repeat it every three posts. Like seriously your opinion is valid but noted AF.Last time this happened to me in the SP (and why I started posting less) was Eddie Lacy. Assured by everyone I had been wrong on Lacy, the only thing for me to do was apologize and leave his threads because a bunch of internet know-it-alls saw Lacy's one good year as proof that his questioners had been wrong about him.
I'm sick watching it again. Here's a guy who is 5'7", 210, with a lousy speed score and somehow I'm the troublemaker know-nothing in here because I won't trust one year of game highlights from defenses clearly geared to stop other parts of an offense rather than the underneath passing game.
#### this. I'm dropping the mic and leaving. You can have your precious 1.01.
It's a ####ty pick.
I suppose restating for clarity is unnecessary, then?Dude. It's not your take. It's the fact that you have to repeat it every three posts. Like seriously your opinion is valid but noted AF.
They're only going to send him deep. They've got other guys for volume.I just find it interesting that many here use that as one of the reasons why he should be 1.01, “KC had their pick of every other rob and picked CEH, that’s enough for me” but that same logic can’t be applied to Ruggs because “they picked him to fill a particular role” talk about having your cake and eating it too...
I’m sure this has been explained in this thread before - and since you know football I’m sure you also know that a field stretcher at WR is very important in NFL terms but doesn’t always translate to fantasy success. I wouldn’t argue with anyone that had Ruggs as their top WR though.I just find it interesting that many here use that as one of the reasons why he should be 1.01, “KC had their pick of every other rob and picked CEH, that’s enough for me” but that same logic can’t be applied to Ruggs because “they picked him to fill a particular role” talk about having your cake and eating it too...
Nope and I'm already pretty much done pointing out he was a lot of people's top 3 ranked RB BEFORE the NFL draft ever happened and now we got people saying if you are high on him you are some kind of sheep just blindly following his draft capital. I mean it's ok to not like him, really, I just hate revisionist history.Wow. You've become the king of straw man arguments. Not one person has used that as the only reason. NOT ONE.
I agree with this. My passion shines through because I love this stuff and want my fake football team to be the best that it can be. For some reason. For what reason that is, I won't know until my next psych check-up. Hwarf.why does everybody take this stuff so personal.....the very existence of this board and the threads in it.... is for stuff like this......it's not rocket science that will save the world...so if we end up getting it wrong one way or the other....life will go on.....its fake football....
and we are not allowed to come back on these boards with "I told you so's"......so everybody can just relax.....there is some good stuff in here on both sides....at some point you will have to just plant your flag and roll with it.....until then there really is no right or wrong side that anybody can prove.....not everyone will agree and thats ok...
Last I looked, the straight up poll between CEH and JT for 1.1 on DLF board still has JT in front. So maybe a half-hive?Speed score is garbage. Well that's a new one. Because that's what that post was largely about. Pulled straight from Football Outsiders's predictive articles. So okay, Football Outsiders doesn't like him. Nobody liked him over fifth RB in the draft but Mike Clay. But he's a surefire one now that he's been picked?
Sounds like the hive mind is in full effect here. Enjoy your shiny new fire hydrant. I hear it moves (sort of).
Meno planted his flag long before KC picked CEH and Mike Clay said whatever he saidNope and I'm already pretty much done pointing out he was a lot of people's top 3 ranked RB BEFORE the NFL draft ever happened and now we got people saying if you are high on him you are some kind of sheep just blindly following his draft capital. I mean it's ok to not like him, really, I just hate revisionist history.
I guess my thing with this class is I had JT, Dobbins, CEH, Lamb, and Jeudy all pretty close before the draft. So after the landing spots were determined it became a factor to help differentiate.I haven’t had an issue with anyone who had him 1 predestined and had that confirmed. Jumping from 5 to 1 is a bit much IMO but to each their own.
I was fading JT pre-draft (we’ll see how that works out), and had Swift top of my board. But CEH became my 1.1 seconds after KC picked him. I watched a ton of LSU ball last year so I was well aware of him so it was not a hive move up for me.I haven’t had an issue with anyone who had him 1 predestined and had that confirmed. Jumping from 5 to 1 is a bit much IMO but to each their own.
Chris Simms had him as his top back pre-draft as well for whatever that is worth.Meno planted his flag long before KC picked CEH and Mike Clay said whatever he said
Yes a pass catching RB is very valuable in ppr fantasy leagues but CEH also ran for a ton of yards last season.For CEH, since you know football I’m sure you also know that a pass catching rb is very important in NFL terms but doesn’t always translate to fantasy success due to lack of goal line carries and overall volume
Whenever I would watch LSU CEH caught my eye. Everyone was focused on Burrow and the receivers but I always found myself wondering who might this little engine who could be....I was fading JT pre-draft (we’ll see how that works out), and had Swift top of my board. But CEH became my 1.1 seconds after KC picked him. I watched a ton of LSU ball last year so I was well aware of him so it was not a hive move up for me.
Honestly I don't see an issue jumping a guy up from 5 to 1 because landing spot is kind of huge nor do I see an issue going other way and taking a guy from 1 to 5 because you just don't like it. Not what happened with me with CEH but I think it often makes a lot of sense to disabuse yourself from your previous thoughts on a player when you can start to think about him in a certain scheme and get an idea how much a team thinks about him.I haven’t had an issue with anyone who had him 1 predestined and had that confirmed. Jumping from 5 to 1 is a bit much IMO but to each their own.
Thank you and yes I did plant my flag on these boards and with you in a private message. And as only @Dez, god and I guess my IT guy at work would know since we chat by email sometimes but the night before the NFL draft I sent him emails not only saying how high I was on CEH but specifically that I was wrestling with CEH or Swift as my RB1. But I did not get there on my own either, I got helped by following ex-NFL scouts who put him on my radar, talked him up, and the video homework I did on him sold me.Meno planted his flag long before KC picked CEH and Mike Clay said whatever he said
There are no luxury picks in the NFL.KC had the benefit of making a luxury pick in round 1. If they miss or draft a situational guy it doesn’t matter because they have Mahomes.
Certainly tough to project, and Williams seems to do well on the GL, but CEH is a tough son-of-a-gun. I believe EBF made the Ray Rice comp; that’s what CEH owners hope he can become on GL.I’ve asked the GL question a lot and I don’t think anyone can comment until we see it happen. It’s possible it’s not CEH.
Daniel Jeremiahs #2, Bucky Brooks #3 I believe.Chris Simms had him as his top back pre-draft as well for whatever that is worth.
How many GL opportunities has KC implemented a single goal line back during the last couple years? I honestly don't know but my impression is that based on their offense (using jet sweeps or shovel passes for example) that a true GL back is not critical for them so CEH may not really need to be a prototypical GL back to gain that value.Dr. BD said:KC had the benefit of making a luxury pick in round 1. If they miss or draft a situational guy it doesn’t matter because they have Mahomes.
Most of the RBs in KC last year didn’t individually get volume. I believe you or someone else has said it repeatedly that Williams had X yards last year only. It’s possible KC is going to a RBBC after seeing it work after losing Hunt; many teams are realizing that’s better than depending on one guy who could get hurt or ask for a big pay day.
I’ve asked the GL question a lot and I don’t think anyone can comment until we see it happen. It’s possible it’s not CEH.
IMO all of these responses carry just as much weight as the counter arguments, but the hype is so high for CEH, I’m the idiot for mentioning them. He was a first round pick, just shut up and take him. I think asking these questions and posing these arguments is healthy for a guy who is considered at 1.01
Especially when you are close to giving your QB a record-setting deal...going forward KC's draft picks are gonna be that much more important because with winning comes big contracts.Dr. Octopus said:There are no luxury picks in the NFL.
I'm not on board with that particular point, and I tried to explain why with the earlier BMI post.King of the Jungle said:Things I don't like: not ideal size, not ideal speed. Thing I am unsure of: workload and use, pass pro.