RB Le'Veon Bell, FA - 9.6.21 Workout For Baltimore (1 Viewer)

[matttyl]

I think they can get out of McKinnon's contract next year with a minimal cap hit and as for this year, I believe they are significantly under the cap anyway.

$6m cap hit next year (after paying him 7.8m this year)...to have the guy never take a snap for them.

 

[massraider]

He doesn't have a signed contract.  He's not holding out.  

Good for him, protect yourself.  Screw those O-linemen that want him to accept getting run into the ground, potentially costing himself millions.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Thats all great but Bell would still need to be willing to play this season, on the tag, without a long term deal in place.

He CAN'T negotiate a long term deal unless he signs the franchise tag and he won't do that with the Steelers since they have pretty much shouted with their actions that they are never going to sign him to a long term extension.

The  Niners have shown they are willing to take a chance and trade for a player playing under the franchise tag and then extend them in good faith.  They've done it as recently as this past year.  The Steelers have shut the door on extending him.  His best case is to go to a team willing to extend him and he knows that he won't get that in Pittsburgh.

 

[Weebs210]

Just watched all of Conners preseason touches. Anyone else not that impressed?

 

[Morton Muffley]

Thats all great but Bell would still need to be willing to play this season, on the tag, without a long term deal in place.

Exactly.  So not seeing how it "makes a ton of sense for all three parties" unless bell is just pissed at the Steeler's org - which is possible.

To those (i.e. Bronco Billy) saying that this decision is foolish because he will be walking away from $9M and tarnishing his reputation, I'd say:

• the $9M/$15M is 10/16 games THIS year and if he is worried about getting hurt he may see it as reasonable to trade the risk of walking from that money in exchange for the reduced chance of injury and the guarantee of a bigger deal.  And if that's the case I think Pitt should be very worried about him playing at all even if he shows up week 10
  
• fans (especially fans from OTHER teams) have short memories and will be happy to ascribe any issues between Bell and Pitt to Pitt entirely when they have a smiling Bell at their team's press conference talking about how excited he is to be playing for _____ and taking the high road to avoid answering questions about what happened in Pitt
  

The only difficulty I see for Bell is if he comes back week 10 and then pulls a fake hammy injury or gives less than full effort as I do think that would hurt his market value with other NFL teams and his personal brand with NFL fans.  As such, my guess is that he comes back week 10 and plays hard in the regular season and playoffs.

as always, just my opinion

 

[TheDirtyWord]

Quite frankly, if Bell's mindset is 'long-term' at this juncture...it's not even about leverage.  It's about his coming to peace with not playing for a season during his prime, so he can get a bite at the $50M+ guaranteed apple.

If he misses 10 games, don't think there is really a way for the Steelers to put him on the field in any sizable role.  Unless they've been gutted by injury.  And if Bell feels like the Steelers did him wrong in negotiations (and with franchise tag #2)...I doubt he has loyalty left to the Steelers as it relates to their prospects in 2018.

 

[Bronco Billy]

I don't follow. It seems that he and his team don't trust Steelers management right now. How is trying to protect his future "poisoning his brand"? Do you mean with the Steelers? They already have a bad relationship. With other owners? They are just looking for an opening and a way to profit from this. With the general public? I don't think the average working guy has much sympathy with billionaire NFL owners.

The lesson is - momma, don't let your little boy become a RB in the NFL. Very little financial security and compensation to be found there.

You’ll have to forgive me if I don’t consider $14.5M for 1 year of work as “very little financial security and compensation”.  I could pay the taxes and my agent and still live very, very comfortably my entire life off of that one year and then set my kids up to live comfortably too.

And yes, I do believe that a twice suspended RB with an injury history, and then you throw in top of it his public statements about being compensated well above market value, that’s he’s willing to hold out and abandon his team because he’ll “only” make $14.5M this year, and then having his teammates come out strongly in public against him will damge him.   Yeah, I think he’s reduced his future compensation potential with the combination of all of those factors.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

The day he shows up the players will forget about it.  

The agent is a moron.  He should not have negotiated on mass media.  The Steelers traditionally will not budge when players play hardball.  Martavis should have taught him at least that much.  

Bell WILL play this year.  He WILL play for the Steelers.  Only a question of when.  

Every year a RB comes in after week 8-10 and tears up the fantasy football landscape.  Last year it was Kenyon Drake. Is Bell now THAT player now?  The one that will come in fresh and lead teams to championships... ?

 

[Steeler]

Looks like the 'best-case' scenario for Bell fans who want to see him play this year is if he decides to sign late on Saturday.  That means he gets his full paycheck for this week and doesn't have to suit up for Sunday, basically he gets a one-week free paycheck but I doubt that happens.

More than likely he's sitting out the first ten games and only playing the final six games so the next-best case scenario is he gets traded.

Noticed Kyle Shanahan said the loss of his starting RB changes everything.

 Shanahan: Loss of RB McKinnon changes things ‘drastically’ for 49ers’ offens

Hmnn, he loses a duel-threat RB, the type he 'covets' and has to go to the trash heap and is starting a guy who doesn't have the skills he covets and he's coming off an injury.

The Steelers could ship Bell far away and out of the conference and get back more than compensatory picks.

Whichever team who would trade for Bell would do so knowing he can't sign an extension until after the season.

The Niners made the same sort of trade for Jimmy Garappolo last year and that has worked out 'pretty-good' for them.

Seems like a logical scenario.

Except why would Bell play for the 49ers if he won't play for the Steelers?  He doesn't want to play for 14.5M this year (I assume for anyone).

 

[Titletown_Favres]

Would it be in Steelers interest to say rescind the tag offer Week 8 or 9 , cut him, and not have to pay him a cent? Can they do this?

 

[TheFanatic]

Would it be in Steelers interest to say rescind the tag offer Week 8 or 9 , cut him, and not have to pay him a cent? Can they do this?

Interesting question. If he doesn't sign it, I can see where they could pull the tag. Or is there something in the CBA that prevents this from happening? If not, might be good leverage for the Steelers to get him in earlier. "Report by week 4 or we will rescind the tag week 9"

 

[lod001]

The day he shows up the players will forget about it.  

The agent is a moron.  He should not have negotiated on mass media.  The Steelers traditionally will not budge when players play hardball.  Martavis should have taught him at least that much.  

Bell WILL play this year.  He WILL play for the Steelers.  Only a question of when.  

Every year a RB comes in after week 8-10 and tears up the fantasy football landscape.  Last year it was Kenyon Drake. Is Bell now THAT player now?  The one that will come in fresh and lead teams to championships... ?

Without Bell, I will be out of contention by week 8.  

 

[Steeler]

He doesn't have a signed contract.  He's not holding out.  

Good for him, protect yourself.  Screw those O-linemen that want him to accept getting run into the ground, potentially costing himself millions.

They are more upset that he hasn't told them of his plans.  Some Steeler players have said he wont even answer their calls.

 

[apalmer]

Interesting question. If he doesn't sign it, I can see where they could pull the tag. Or is there something in the CBA that prevents this from happening? If not, might be good leverage for the Steelers to get him in earlier. "Report by week 4 or we will rescind the tag week 9"

Then he's a free agent, instantly able to negotiate his long-term deal starting with week 10 and going on for however many years he can get with any team looking for a RB. That'll show him.

 

[Truebluey]

You’ll have to forgive me if I don’t consider $14.5M for 1 year of work as “very little financial security and compensation”.  I could pay the taxes and my agent and still live very, very comfortably my entire life off of that one year and then set my kids up to live comfortably too.

And yes, I do believe that a twice suspended RB with an injury history, and then you throw in top of it his public statements about being compensated well above market value, that’s he’s willing to hold out and abandon his team because he’ll “only” make $14.5M this year, and then having his teammates come out strongly in public against him will damge him.   Yeah, I think he’s reduced his future compensation potential with the combination of all of those factors.

I tend to agree that his compensation will be reduced, although we hope it won't be through the same sort of collusion process we saw with Kaepernick. 

Everything is relative. If you work in the same industry as your neighbor, and she makes three times what you make for similar work, you will feel hard done by. Bell is looking at Donald, Mack, Cousins, etc. That's his comparison.

 

[Bayhawks]

But not have to do so on a long term deal.  I'm not saying they would, just seeing if they could and what it would mean.  He'd be the Cousins of the RB world, which is a very different world. 

You're just picking one point from my post and ignoring the rest.  1-The transition tag would let Bell negotiate with other teams.  I highly doubt that there wouldn't be at least one team that would offer him a contract. 

2-Then Pitt would either have to match that contract (a long-term deal), or lose him and get nothing.

3- IF no other team made an offer, they'd be forced to pay him over $17M, which was far more than they were willing to pay him this year (before the ill-will of the last few days). 

In a vacuum, maybe they'd be willing to pay him $17M for 1 year, but in this world, do you really think they'd risk having to manage the salary cap to have $17.4M available, and have him not report, AGAIN, thereby effectively reducing their salary cap by $17m vs other teams?

 

[Bayhawks]

Interesting question. If he doesn't sign it, I can see where they could pull the tag. Or is there something in the CBA that prevents this from happening? If not, might be good leverage for the Steelers to get him in earlier. "Report by week 4 or we will rescind the tag week 9"

They can rescind the tag at any point until he signs it.  However, if I'm not mistaken, he doesn't have to inform them he's going to sign it, he can just sign it (his agent should have the paperwork).  So, in the scenario you suggested, he could just sign the tag, unannounced in week 8 & they couldn't do anything about it.

 

[TheFanatic]

Then he's a free agent, instantly able to negotiate his long-term deal starting with week 10 and going on for however many years he can get with any team looking for a RB. That'll show him.

True, but still not a terrible move. The guy is going to come in week 10, out of shape, so it's going to be a couple games before he can seriously contribute. Meanwhile, he might be a cancer in the locker room. Rescind the offer and let the guy walk, saving the Steelers $6 million. They aren't getting anything for him other than a compensatory pick which I would think is worth less than $6 million. 

 

[Steeler]

He CAN'T negotiate a long term deal unless he signs the franchise tag and he won't do that with the Steelers since they have pretty much shouted with their actions that they are never going to sign him to a long term extension.

The  Niners have shown they are willing to take a chance and trade for a player playing under the franchise tag and then extend them in good faith.  They've done it as recently as this past year.  The Steelers have shut the door on extending him.  His best case is to go to a team willing to extend him and he knows that he won't get that in Pittsburgh.

He can't be extended this year even if he is traded.  It's a good thought, but Bell would still have to play for 14.5M this year which he doesn't want to do, apparently.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

Without Bell, I will be out of contention by week 8.  

I have Bell in a few leagues also.  I will scratch, claw and play matchups on waiver wire pickups and try to eke out wins while I hope he comes back faster. 

But before that Bell is tradebait in my leagues where there is a team very deep at RB.  And depending on my roster, I could be on either side of that trade (fantasy football wise). 

 

[TheFanatic]

He can't be extended this year even if he is traded.  It's a good thought, but Bell would still have to play for 14.5M this year which he doesn't want to do, apparently.

He doesn't want to do it for a team that will run him into the ground. If he has a long term deal in place beyond the $14 million this year with his new team, they will be more careful with him. 

 

[boilerdave]

Just watched all of Conners preseason touches. Anyone else not that impressed?

I've never been impressed by him. I'm a Bell owner I didn't draft him or make an attempt to pick him up on waivers. 

 

[lod001]

I've never been impressed by him. I'm a Bell owner I didn't draft him or make an attempt to pick him up on waivers. 

Same but I am looking at making a move for Samuels.

 

[The General]

If Steelers rescind the tag and cut him the new team can negotiate any deal they want and the Steelers get a compensatory pick.

That right?

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I have Bell in a few leagues also.  I will scratch, claw and play matchups on waiver wire pickups and try to eke out wins while I hope he comes back faster. 

But before that Bell is tradebait in my leagues where there is a team very deep at RB.  And depending on my roster, I could be on either side of that trade (fantasy football wise). 

What do you (OR ANYONE ELSE) think you would take for him?  Like what tier of RB and/or other player?

Trying to come up with a package to grab him because I am totally fine at RB1-RB3.

 

[Bayhawks]

If Steelers rescind the tag and cut him the new team can negotiate any deal they want and the Steelers get a compensatory pick.

That right?

I don't think they get a comp pick. 

 

[Steeler]

He doesn't want to do it for a team that will run him into the ground. If he has a long term deal in place beyond the $14 million this year with his new team, they will be more careful with him. 

He can't have a new deal this year even if he is traded.

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

I've never been impressed by him. I'm a Bell owner I didn't draft him or make an attempt to pick him up on waivers. 

agreed. it'll be a committee of some sort if bell doesn't show up

 

[Bracie Smathers]

He can't be extended this year even if he is traded.  It's a good thought, but Bell would still have to play for 14.5M this year which he doesn't want to do, apparently.

I know, I said that.  He can't be extended this year and the Steelers won't ever extend him to the sort of deal he wants/expects.

See the 'long-term' contract offer that they wanted him to sign.

LE'VEON BELL'S HOLDOUT FROM A FUNCTIONAL PERSPECTIVE

This summer, the final offer that Pittsburgh handed to Bell included just $10 million in guaranteed money. I say just $10 million, not to poke at the proletariat, but to explain how far off the Steelers were from the market that Todd Gurley would set for the running back position. In late July, Gurley signed a deal that included $45 million guaranteed. From Bell’s perspective, if he believes he has a similar value as Gurley, then what Pittsburgh came to the table with was just one-fifth of his fair rate in terms of guaranteed money. This, fundamentally, is why he is not playing ball games.

That is the holdout in a nutshell.

The Steelers were not serious with their offer since they weren't willing to put up guaranteed money.  

He won't ever get that from Pittsburgh but he stands a good chance to get that from other teams so that is why it makes sense for him to sign the franchise and then go for the long term extension from a team who would be willing to provide much more guaranteed money up front.

 

[Bayhawks]

True, but still not a terrible move. The guy is going to come in week 10, out of shape, so it's going to be a couple games before he can seriously contribute. Meanwhile, he might be a cancer in the locker room. Rescind the offer and let the guy walk, saving the Steelers $6 million. They aren't getting anything for him other than a compensatory pick which I would think is worth less than $6 million. 

I think rescinding the tag counts as a "cut," (thought I read something about that when Carolina did that with Norman) & doesn't count towards comp picks.

 

[Arodin]

agreed. it'll be a committee of some sort if bell doesn't show up

Trouble with this thinking is it goes against what seems to be Steelers organizational philosophy.  They always seem to roll with one primary back, even when that back is an injury fill-in.

Thinking they would mix Ridley and Samuels in with Conner would be something we just haven’t seen them do in over a decade.  I am not banking on that happening just because Bell is out.

 

[Bayhawks]

Trouble with this thinking is it goes against what seems to be Steelers organizational philosophy.  They always seem to roll with one primary back, even when that back is an injury fill-in.

Thinking they would mix Ridley and Samuels in with Conner would be something we just haven’t seen them do in over a decade.  I am not banking on that happening just because Bell is out.

And the problem with that philosophy is that it doesn't work as well when you don't have a RB of Bell's caliber.

 

[Weebs210]

Trouble with this thinking is it goes against what seems to be Steelers organizational philosophy.  They always seem to roll with one primary back, even when that back is an injury fill-in.

Thinking they would mix Ridley and Samuels in with Conner would be something we just haven’t seen them do in over a decade.  I am not banking on that happening just because Bell is out.

Samuels is a good receiving back, anyone know how Conners did receiving out of the back field in college?

 

[Hairy Snowman]

What do you (OR ANYONE ELSE) think you would take for him?  Like what tier of RB and/or other player?

Trying to come up with a package to grab him because I am totally fine at RB1-RB3.

RB 2 territory.  You are going to give up a solid starter. 

Bell's floor, IMO, will still end up with 700-800 yards rushing maybe 300 receiving, maybe total 6-11 TDs depending on Bell and how Conner and Samuels develop.  But if you have depth, the game to game ceiling is hard to ignore come playoff time. And you are very likely to get him fresh trying to put on a show.  

 

[Steeler]

so that is why it makes sense for him to sign the franchise and then go for the long term extension from a team who would be willing to provide much more guaranteed money up front.

I just disagree with your logic.  Bell would have to sign the tender, get traded to the 49ers, play for the 14.5M this year risking injury/overuse/whatever.  I don't see why Bell would be willing to play for anyone this year.  And I don't see why any team would trade for him given his recent thoughts about being on a pitch count to save himself for a future contract.  The fact that he can't negotiate a long term deal THIS year makes a sign/trade very unlikely IMO.

 

[Snorkelson]

Teams cut players while under contract all the time to save money. A player doesn’t want to sign the 1 year offer because it’s bad business for him and it’s “hes stupid” or greedy or whatever. Steelers didn’t want to pony up last year and he played on his 1yr deal, played very well, and they still won’t pay up. Simply on principal I understand why he is doing this. 

Cousins could gamble on himself year after year and make boatloads of money, but at RB I certainly understand why bell won’t do it for a second year. Especially with his useage.

 

[The General]

I don't think they get a comp pick. 

I thought that was the scenario I heard being discussed this morning. 

Still think he’ll show up this week and def before 10 games. But, if he’s decided that’s what will happen and the Steelers believe it and they can get a pick out of it I think the Steelers should give that thought. They know he’s gone for sure after this year and if you only get him for 6 games plus playoffs and you have to deal with all the drama it becomes at least an option.

Crazy.

 

[Bayhawks]

I thought that was the scenario I heard being discussed this morning. 

Still think he’ll show up this week and def before 10 games. But, if he’s decided that’s what will happen and the Steelers believe it and they can get a pick out of it I think the Steelers should give that thought. They know he’s gone for sure after this year and if you only get him for 6 games plus playoffs and you have to deal with all the drama it becomes at least an option.

Crazy.

I looked it up, and it appears the Panthers did get a comp pick the year after losing Norman, so I must have remembered incorrectly.

 

[The General]

I looked it up, and it appears the Panthers did get a comp pick the year after losing Norman, so I must have remembered incorrectly.

This could be different because of timing or something. The player’s negotiated these ridiculous rules for how they get paid.

Insane how quickly this escalated. Always some drama with top NFL players. 

If this carries on for a couple weeks I’m releasing him. But I drafted James Conner last night right ahead of my arch rival who has Bell

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Interesting question. If he doesn't sign it, I can see where they could pull the tag. Or is there something in the CBA that prevents this from happening? If not, might be good leverage for the Steelers to get him in earlier. "Report by week 4 or we will rescind the tag week 9"

He would LOVE for them to rescind the tag because he'd immediately become a UFA which is what he wants.

 

[The General]

I just disagree with your logic.  Bell would have to sign the tender, get traded to the 49ers, play for the 14.5M this year risking injury/overuse/whatever.  I don't see why Bell would be willing to play for anyone this year.  And I don't see why any team would trade for him given his recent thoughts about being on a pitch count to save himself for a future contract.  The fact that he can't negotiate a long term deal THIS year makes a sign/trade very unlikely IMO.

It’s pretty tricky. A new team could potentially get Bell for a couple picks. They get him this year then for 3 more with a Todd Gurley like contract. Steelers motivated  because they get picks they otherwise wouldn’t and they avoid this drama. All predicated on everyone being convinced Bell not coming back until week 10.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Trouble with this thinking is it goes against what seems to be Steelers organizational philosophy.  They always seem to roll with one primary back, even when that back is an injury fill-in.

They have a new OC now so we don't really know what their philosophy is - plus Williams was a Pro Bowl type player backing up Bell.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I just disagree with your logic.  Bell would have to sign the tender, get traded to the 49ers, play for the 14.5M this year risking injury/overuse/whatever.  I don't see why Bell would be willing to play for anyone this year.  And I don't see why any team would trade for him given his recent thoughts about being on a pitch count to save himself for a future contract.  The fact that he can't negotiate a long term deal THIS year makes a sign/trade very unlikely IMO.

The thing you don't think could happen happened a few months ago with the exact same team I proposed as a potential trade partner.

San Francisco traded for QB Jimmy Garroppolo who was playing under the franchise tag and they extended him to a long-term contract this February and made him the highest paid QB in the league only a few months ago.

You said it is unlikely but it just happened a few months ago with the exact same team and it worked out pretty good for them so I disagree with your logic.

 

[irish eyes]

RB 2 territory.  You are going to give up a solid starter. 

Bell's floor, IMO, will still end up with 700-800 yards rushing maybe 300 receiving, maybe total 6-11 TDs depending on Bell and how Conner and Samuels develop.  But if you have depth, the game to game ceiling is hard to ignore come playoff time. And you are very likely to get him fresh trying to put on a show.  

You are crazy if you think he is coming anywhere close to those numbers. He won't be there anytime soon, so why would they even play him when he is worried about getting hurt. 

 

[Bronco Billy]

Everything is relative. If you work in the same industry as your neighbor, and she makes three times what you make for similar work, you will feel hard done by. Bell is looking at Donald, Mack, Cousins, etc. That's his comparison.

Which is part of why his linemen are going public against him, per their statements.  They have stated they are making less than he would be yet they’re the ones opening the holes for him.  I don’t think they are angry about their pay - they are angry about his not accepting his pay.  And he does not do the same job as those you mentioned.  It’s like saying the engineer and the administrative assistant should make the same amount because they work for the same company.  Skill set, market value, and ease of replacement all go into determining compensation.

 

[Jello_Biafra]

The thing you don't think could happen happened a few months ago with the exact same team I proposed as a potential trade partner.

San Francisco traded for QB Jimmy Garroppolo who was playing under the franchise tag and they extended him to a long-term contract this February and made him the highest paid QB in the league only a few months ago.

You said it is unlikely but it just happened a few months ago with the exact same team and it worked out pretty good for them so I disagree with your logic.

Garrappolo wasn't playing under the franchise tag.

 

[Milkman]

Didn’t the union agree to rookie scales because rookie contracts were so out of control for unproven talent?  It seems to me that the NFLPA was an advocate for that.  How does that affect the guys in rookie contracts being on the field?

Fans are missing out. Lets hope for a more fair CBA that protects the players health and gives them a higher % of revenue. I don't want to see 200 million dollars contracts but I want to see all players compensated better. We can find a better middle ground. 

 

[Bronco Billy]

Fans are missing out. Lets hope for a more fair CBA that protects the players health and gives them a higher % of revenue. I don't want to see 200 million dollars contracts but I want to see all players compensated better. We can find a better middle ground. 

You do understand that the players’ cut of gross revenues is far above that of most companies pay all their employees (not just a select portion such as the players) in this country, correct?  As to players’ health, hell, they don’t even care about each other or themselves, or there would be no controversy about trying to enforce a rule about striking with the helmet and players wouldn’t be risking careers by taking cheap shots at each other.  

.

 

[steelers1080]

If Steelers rescind the tag and cut him the new team can negotiate any deal they want and the Steelers get a compensatory pick.

That right?

No, if they cut him now they get nothing. He has to leave in Free Agency. 

 

[steelers1080]

And the problem with that philosophy is that it doesn't work as well when you don't have a RB of Bell's caliber.

True, but they view Conner as being at least equal to what Deangelo was, mainly because Conner has improved as a blocker and pass catcher this offseason. People that don't view Conner as the new bellcow are underestimating how much the Steelers like him. 

Jaylen Samuels could be used on 3rd downs in obvious passing situations, but Conner should get 65%+ of the work, which is standard for an RB1.