zamboni
Footballguy
I think Tucker has a better shot than Vaughn at making the final roster. Maybe even Edmonds - not like he's done much the past few years.
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RB Sean Tucker, TB (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
I’d be very surprised m if he didn’t make the roster at this point.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I’m not sure why a team expected to be bad would give up on a super cheap RB with such potential.
I’d say Vaughn is odd man out.
Rookiefever
Footballguy
Tucker was my rb 5 pre combine. Behind only spears bijon gibbs and charbonnet. I truly believe he’s better than a lot of rbs in this class and that the medicals were severely overblown. I did drop him down to rb9 after the draft but he was a priority target in the fifth round for me. I think he will vastly increase in value this year.
While I agree with most as this whites jobs to lose I don’t see that a huge obstacle to overcome and I expect(health permitting) he eats into whites touches rather soon.
Tucker is a gifted back and a gift to those drafting him late.
While I agree with most as this whites jobs to lose I don’t see that a huge obstacle to overcome and I expect(health permitting) he eats into whites touches rather soon.
Tucker is a gifted back and a gift to those drafting him late.
The ability based evaluations I saw for Tucker ranked him very favourably in this class. The health concerns saw his draft capital disappear but he was signed pretty quickly off the street for a good UDFA salary. Of all the positions I think draft capital matters least for RB, if the guys is running well and doing what the coaches expect then I think there is every chance of him making the team ahead of someone like Vaughn who has been a perennial dissapointment.
Capella
Footballguy
He is absolutely making the team.
The reason I disregard the medical issues is because I saw the 49ers burn a 4th round pick on Marcus Lattimore who's knee was destroyed prior to the draft.
He also didn't workout or run the combine like Sean Tucker but was drafted regardless. What I'm saying is there is precedent for teams ignoring health issues when the talent is there.
The fact he had no physical damage and was cleared so quickly leads me to believe the league consensus is that he's not as talented as everyone thinks he is. Because guys with worse medical concerns have been drafted regardless. This guy is on the Waiver Wire in my dynasty league right now, so it's not sour grapes. I just trust NFL professionals when they passed on drafting this guy 296 times.
He's currently #4 on the depth chart and is 100% healthy. Which further implies to me that he's not viewed as the talent that everyone thought he was. Vaughn and Edmonds aren't exactly world beaters. If he was this 2nd to 3rd round talent, then it's odd to me he is having trouble passing them on the depth chart.
Many years ago I was high on Lache Seastrunk and was shocked he wasn't drafted early on, but it was that day I learned to trust the NFL scouts who do this for living, since I just run imaginary football teams and not real ones.
Deamon
Footballguy
haha I've been told. Fair enough, I don't really know a lot about the guy as much as you guys do.
I also think he's on the roster bubble / destined for the practice squad. He's #4 on the depth chart right now.
Don't lose faith in your gut, no matter how many other people may think you're wrong.
"The cream rises to the top." Well, the cream is 100% healthy and still isn't rising...
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Deamon
Footballguy
Well, these guys follow the Bucs more than I do, so they probably have a better grasp on the situation so I'll defer to them on it.
I also think he's on the roster bubble / destined for the practice squad. He's #4 on the depth chart right now.
Don't lose faith in your gut, no matter how many other people may think you're wrong.
"The cream rises to the top." Well, the cream is 100% healthy and still isn't rising...
Well, these guys follow the Bucs more than I do, so they probably have a better grasp on the situation so I'll defer to them on it.
I also think he's on the roster bubble / destined for the practice squad. He's #4 on the depth chart right now.
Don't lose faith in your gut, no matter how many other people may think you're wrong.
"The cream rises to the top." Well, the cream is 100% healthy and still isn't rising...
Or they could be... homers? Rose tinted glasses. They don't seem to trust the coaching staff when they say R White is the guy and seem to be trusting their own internal scouting more than what is coming out of TB's camp.
Todd Bowles on Rachaad White's Opportunity, Mental Preparation | Press Conference
Head Coach Todd Bowles spoke to the media following Friday's Training Camp practice. HC Bowles discussed RB Rachaad White's physical preparation, LB Devin White taking control of the defense and WR Russell Gage's return.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Not sure I would put too much stock in either of these things:
1. What the SF did years ago when drafting Lattimore
2. Official depth charts during week 2 of preseason
Deamon
Footballguy
I don't see where anything they said is homerism or anti-R. White. We're only talking about a 3rd RB here.Well, these guys follow the Bucs more than I do, so they probably have a better grasp on the situation so I'll defer to them on it.
I also think he's on the roster bubble / destined for the practice squad. He's #4 on the depth chart right now.
Don't lose faith in your gut, no matter how many other people may think you're wrong.
"The cream rises to the top." Well, the cream is 100% healthy and still isn't rising...
Or they could be... homers? Rose tinted glasses. They don't seem to trust the coaching staff when they say R White is the guy and seem to be trusting their own internal scouting more than what is coming out of TB's camp.
Todd Bowles on Rachaad White's Opportunity, Mental Preparation | Press Conference
Head Coach Todd Bowles spoke to the media following Friday's Training Camp practice. HC Bowles discussed RB Rachaad White's physical preparation, LB Devin White taking control of the defense and WR Russell Gage's return.www.buccaneers.com
I don't see where anything they said is homerism or anti-R. White. We're only talking about a 3rd RB here.Well, these guys follow the Bucs more than I do, so they probably have a better grasp on the situation so I'll defer to them on it.
I also think he's on the roster bubble / destined for the practice squad. He's #4 on the depth chart right now.
Don't lose faith in your gut, no matter how many other people may think you're wrong.
"The cream rises to the top." Well, the cream is 100% healthy and still isn't rising...
Or they could be... homers? Rose tinted glasses. They don't seem to trust the coaching staff when they say R White is the guy and seem to be trusting their own internal scouting more than what is coming out of TB's camp.
Todd Bowles on Rachaad White's Opportunity, Mental Preparation | Press Conference
Head Coach Todd Bowles spoke to the media following Friday's Training Camp practice. HC Bowles discussed RB Rachaad White's physical preparation, LB Devin White taking control of the defense and WR Russell Gage's return.
Check out this quote. It says, "Sean Tucker has a good chance to make the roster" per HC Todd Bowles.
If the guy's only knock was health and was really a 2nd or 3rd round talent, why is there even a discussion about him "making the roster"? Do the Buccs not know what they have? He's healthy, right? Shouldn't he be relegating guys like Vaughn and Edmonds to the bench? Instead, the only quote you can find is coach saying he has a "good chance" to make the roster. That's indicative to how that staff views him. An UDFA depth piece with a good chance to make the roster. It's not related to health, he is healthy now. The reality is this guy is 4th on the depth chart and the coaching staff has had time to view him as "healthy".
I just don't think people are being realistic and are using this health issue as a stop gap response to any criticism.
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KingPrawn
Footballguy
I'll give you your other points but how many times did NFL professionals pass on Tom Brady?
Deamon
Footballguy
I wouldn't put much into that Bowles quote, it's pretty generic and coach speak. He's not gonna say "he's a lock to make the team" which seems like it would be counter productive to both Tucker and his competition.
Again, I think the guys in here saying he will make the team are only thinking of him as a 3rd QB, and not saying he's any threat to White this year. An UDFA making the squad is a pretty big win for him.
Birdie048
Footballguy
And did Marcus Lattimore ever play meaningful touches in NFL? Nope... But I had hopes for his recovery like many .. I mean he retired a year later and is now coaching ...
But SF drafting him with the potential his recovery would allow him to return to form is heartening, but it never materialized.
Sean Tucker has a medical condition that was nothing like Lattimore's. It could be worse. It could be a non-issue.
I hope the best for the young man. I hope he reaches his dreams. My reality is not to spend capital to acquire him on my rosters.
By this logic, I can't criticize any 6th rounder, 7th rounder, or UDFA because they "could be Tom Brady".
Fair and understood. Looking forward to seeing how this all unfolds.
But again, if they viewed him as a 2nd/3rd round talent... why isn't he fighting for the backup RB position and instead fighting for a roster spot?
It's counterintuitive to their argument. He should have been drafted if healthy, I'll buy that. Now he's healthy and 4th on the depth chart. Well, why is that? Isn't he a 2nd/3rd round talent? There should be no restrictions to his ascent.
Surely the Buccs know he was a 2nd/3rd round talent as well? Or is the implication that the Buccs don't know that? Why would they have such a talented player as #4 on depth chart if the "only" concern was his health... which is no longer a concern.
Surely there has to be something else going on.
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eighsse2
Footballguy
My take is that he was a top 5 (top 4? top 3?) RB of the class before all this medical stuff came out. I know nothing, but that's how I saw him ranked. So my perception was that the medical situation and lack of combine contributed greatly to his fall to the RB 15-20 range, (ETA: and his fall completely out of the NFL draft). So, though the medical condition is a serious concern, if it should turn out to be insignificant to his career, he has a ton of potential. That's why I have him around RB 12 currently.
ETA: And I completely believe that White will have every opportunity to own that backfield. But if Tucker is healthy and lives up to the potential that he supposedly has, look out.
ETA: And I completely believe that White will have every opportunity to own that backfield. But if Tucker is healthy and lives up to the potential that he supposedly has, look out.
KingPrawn
Footballguy
No you can criticize them and point out theirr flaws, just don't use "NFL professionals passed on him 296 times". I'm not saying Tucker is the next Tom Brady of runningbacks. But NFL professionals miss players quite frequently.
I don't follow fantasy people but several NFL draft folks and none of them I follow had him as a top 5 RB. Brugler had him like RB14-15, before the medicals.
They might all be wrong but even before the medical diagnosis the divide between were fantasy people had him ranked and the real NFL was I believe larger then any player in this draft.
eighsse2
Footballguy
I'm working solely on memory. I could be very wrong. But I mainly follow the fantasy lists, so it could be he was high there but not in NFL draft lists.
Isn't that like apples to oranges? Now Sean Tucker is Bijan Robinson?at depth charts right now. Bijan can’t even beat out Patterson or Allgeier. Third on the Falcons depth chart? What a bum.
Man, you guys really love this guy. I'll just stop responding to this thread, it's like trying to convince someone that their puppy "isn't the cutest who ever lived".Bijan was drafted at #8 overall, this guy went undrafted. Surely you are not honestly trying to compare the two situations...?
Best of luck with your UDFA RB. I hope he stacks Pro Bowls on Pro Bowls, but should be bust, just remember who tried to be the voice of reason.
Sure, ban me for not agreeing with the value of a player. Apparently draft position and depth charts now mean nothing.
All that matters is that if Sean Tucker was healthy he would have been drafted. Got it.
eighsse2
Footballguy
I don't know that anyone here is saying Tucker is some kind of sure thing stud. Just that he has potential. Especially for dynasty purposes. The Bijan comparison had nothing to do with Tucker vs Bijan. It was only to point out that depth charts don't necessarily mean anything right now. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they are laughable.Isn't that like apples to oranges? Now Sean Tucker is Bijan Robinson?
Bijan was drafted at #8 overall, this guy went undrafted. Surely you are not honestly trying to compare the two situations...?
Best of luck with your UDFA RB. I hope he stacks Pro Bowls on Pro Bowls, but should be bust, just remember who tried to be the voice of reason.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
It’s not apples to oranges. You brought up depth charts to support your view on Tucker. He’s rightfully pointing out that depth charts can be imperfect and unreliable in preseason. He’s right about that. Does that make him right about Tucker overall, and you wrong? Nope. But you already know that.Isn't that like apples to oranges? Now Sean Tucker is Bijan Robinson?
Bijan was drafted at #8 overall, this guy went undrafted. Surely you are not honestly trying to compare the two situations...?
Best of luck with your UDFA RB. I hope he stacks Pro Bowls on Pro Bowls, but should be bust, just remember who tried to be the voice of reason.
J Giles Band
Footballguy
I think SayWhat? was trying to make an exaggerated example to point out how meaningless preseason depth charts typically are.
I think most get it, but alas... nuance is an art.
Oh, and if we are going to cherry pick, Arian Foster (undrafted) turned out ok...
Disclaimer: from the I have no strong opinion on Sean Tucker either way club. I am not a fan of Tucker, nor do I dislike him. I do not own Tucker, nor necessarily plan to. I haven't drafted, traded or just missed him. Nor have I harmed Tucker in any way.
I think most get it, but alas... nuance is an art.
Oh, and if we are going to cherry pick, Arian Foster (undrafted) turned out ok...
Disclaimer: from the I have no strong opinion on Sean Tucker either way club. I am not a fan of Tucker, nor do I dislike him. I do not own Tucker, nor necessarily plan to. I haven't drafted, traded or just missed him. Nor have I harmed Tucker in any way.
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Of course I wasn’t comparing Bijan to Tucker, nor did I express any opinion on Tucker in this thread. Pointing out that it’s simply silly (putting it kindly) to utilize “4th on the depth chart” as any sort of damning evidence against any rookie, let alone an UDFA, two weeks into the preseason.
What about if in 3 weeks he's still #4 on the depth chart or on the practice squad? Will it still be silly?
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Of course not. Once teams cut rosters down to 53, it matters a lot who is on the roster and what the depth chart looks like. It will matter even more to see how players are used in real games too.
Alright, very cool. Then I will check back in 3 weeks. Sorry if my analysis is premature, but the art of this is in reading the tea leaves.
Carry on, boys.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Some teams have decently real depth charts in preseason and others don’t. I have no idea which those are other than by observation. Example: I never trust BB or any Shanahan on preseason depth charts. (because they’ve burned me in the past)
Agreed and understood. Like in Philadelphia for example with Swift, Gainwell, and Penny.
We likely won't know who the starter is (if there is one) until Week 1 is actually played. Any depth chart for that team for RB is definitely a very fluid situation.
Still, if I am just 3 weeks early on this I don't think it's as an outrageous take as everyone is making it seem and will gladly wait 3 weeks to see if my current assessment is correct, if that is how consensus here views things. Rather run with the wind to my back than vice versa.
It's not life or death, I can wait and bickering about it won't change anything either. I appreciate your insight.
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Without answering, I’m hoping you understand the nuances and approach that some teams take regarding a “depth chart” at week 2 of the preseason vs a depth chart for week 1 of the regular season. If not, then Tucker as 4th string absolutely equals Bijan as 3rd string.
Nobody in here is claiming that Tucker is #1, only that he has potential. That’s not incorrect, no matter where he currently sits on the depth chart nor where he was drafted/not drafted. It’s also not incorrect that as an UDFA, he had long odds to make an impact in the NFL. That’s pretty much assured of any UDFA’s path. So the fact that you’ve responded so frequently and aggressively against any positive posts people have made about Tucker is just a bit odd. Odds are against him ever bring fantasy relevant. But we are taking about a dart throw 3rd/4th round dynasty rookie pick here. Being right if he doesn’t amount to anything won’t really be anything to pound your chest about.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
As someone who's just trying to read the thread, why don't you focus on the players and not the poster. If you think anything's out of bounds, just report it and move on. Or just put him on ignore. I've found FFW's posts thoughtful. Please don't speak for all of us. TIA.
I don't understand how I am a troll? Because I am down on an UDFA RB? I have posted in dozens of threads over the past 3 days and if you look at my like counter, many people are enjoying my content. I've made 93 posts and received 85 likes. Does that sound like a troll or somebody who is effectively contributing to the community?
Why would I pick Sean Tucker out of any other player to try and ruffle everyone's feathers? If I wanted to troll, I would go in the Jahmyr Gibbs thread and call him a bust or undersized.
I mentioned this yesterday, I think people are sensitive about this prospect because they expected him to get drafted and he didn't. They are more sensitive about this player due to the fear of being wrong.
Literally nothing I have said in this thread is outlandish or different than what I've been posting in other threads. The only difference is that people are potentially wrong about what they feel was a top prospect and are conflating my comments about Tucker with their own ability to scout.
It's okay to be wrong and it's okay to have differing viewpoints. I'm just saying people are taking comments about this UDFA way more personally than any other player I've commented on and I'm 95% sure it's due to the reasons listed above.
Otherwise, I don't understand how I can speak objectively about every other player in the league except this one. Hell, even the site owner was liking my posts yesterday... but sure, "I'm a troll".
Post in thread 'Going Against The Grain - Who You Got?' https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/going-against-the-grain-who-you-got.809441/post-24590888
Post in thread 'Going Against The Grain - Who You Got?' https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/going-against-the-grain-who-you-got.809441/post-24590797
Why would I pick Sean Tucker out of any other player to try and ruffle everyone's feathers? If I wanted to troll, I would go in the Jahmyr Gibbs thread and call him a bust or undersized.
I mentioned this yesterday, I think people are sensitive about this prospect because they expected him to get drafted and he didn't. They are more sensitive about this player due to the fear of being wrong.
Literally nothing I have said in this thread is outlandish or different than what I've been posting in other threads. The only difference is that people are potentially wrong about what they feel was a top prospect and are conflating my comments about Tucker with their own ability to scout.
It's okay to be wrong and it's okay to have differing viewpoints. I'm just saying people are taking comments about this UDFA way more personally than any other player I've commented on and I'm 95% sure it's due to the reasons listed above.
Otherwise, I don't understand how I can speak objectively about every other player in the league except this one. Hell, even the site owner was liking my posts yesterday... but sure, "I'm a troll".
Post in thread 'Going Against The Grain - Who You Got?' https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/going-against-the-grain-who-you-got.809441/post-24590888
Post in thread 'Going Against The Grain - Who You Got?' https://forums.footballguys.com/threads/going-against-the-grain-who-you-got.809441/post-24590797
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
I certainly don't think you're a troll. We're having a discussion about a player and people have differing opinions. I don't know if Tucker will ever amount to anything, but I do know things are looking up for him now compared to what it was just after the draft. I'm not sure if the medical condition is the sole reason for not getting drafted, but he was highly thought of by the FF community. He was drafted a year or two before the NFL draft in a few of my DEVY leagues. I also thought highly of him at the time and still do if he doesn't have any medical conditions to worry about.
J Giles Band
Footballguy
'Thoughtful' isn't remotely a term that came to mind... but in the most Ted Lasso way possible, I respect you doing so. That said, I also am trying to focus on the thread, despite the noise.
I do think a point that is often omitted in these discussions is dynasty vs re-draft. I wouldn't pay any attention to Tucker in a re-draft either. At least not right now... he'd be in season waiver wire material (if he works out... a big if, as has been discussed). But in a dynasty league, with a separate rookie draft, long term considerations needing to get in on guys early, etc... you don't always have the luxury to see how things play out. By then, it is too late and the player is on another team.
Not that most of you guys aren't aware of this... but for the discussion, just a thought that the league type (dynasty or re-draft) frames a player like Tucker completely differently. My assumption is most guys posting here and with interest or trying to glean more on Tucker are in dynasty leagues.
eighsse2
Footballguy
I understand that the guy has gotten abrasive at times (reacting to the abrasiveness of others? Maybe). When that happens, things devolve into chaos. It's not any good. Recognized.
But plenty of his posts have been normal, meaningful, relevant contributions.
J Giles Band
Footballguy
And I am a huge Ted Lasso fan... the world needs more of him, frankly. And less of the abrasion, as you point out. Some just get a little too easily agitated when others don't agree with them.
But back to the thread?... I still think dynasty vs re-draft is important to differentiate in these discussions. Tucker is an afterthought in re-draft for the most part. Again, likely an in season, waiver wire dart throw at best... barring an injury to White. In that case his value takes a leap and you'd better be ready to pounce. But again, that is why we are discussing him here now... trying to parse whether he has a legit shot to contribute or if he is a pumpkin? Dismiss guys like this at your peril. I remember a similar discussion last pre-season about Dameon Pierce. I'd say he turned out ok... although I often thought the pre-season hype was getting out of control for him last year. Not that he didn't have ability (he was drafted obviously)... but some of the guys last year were looking at the Texans offense (especially Davis Mills) with unreasonable expectations.
Meanwhile in dynasty... Tucker is an easy and recommended dart throw in the later rounds of a rookie draft. Again, you have to get in early or else you miss the train in that circumstance.
Ultimately, the work guys are putting in on this board now is how they stay ahead in their leagues. I respect the hell out of it... Jim Finks (former Vikings, Bears and Saints GM) said it best: 'There are no geniuses and there are no shortcuts'. Some might take heed.
Ultimately to me I go back to information, man... there is no substitute and no expiration date.
But back to the thread?... I still think dynasty vs re-draft is important to differentiate in these discussions. Tucker is an afterthought in re-draft for the most part. Again, likely an in season, waiver wire dart throw at best... barring an injury to White. In that case his value takes a leap and you'd better be ready to pounce. But again, that is why we are discussing him here now... trying to parse whether he has a legit shot to contribute or if he is a pumpkin? Dismiss guys like this at your peril. I remember a similar discussion last pre-season about Dameon Pierce. I'd say he turned out ok... although I often thought the pre-season hype was getting out of control for him last year. Not that he didn't have ability (he was drafted obviously)... but some of the guys last year were looking at the Texans offense (especially Davis Mills) with unreasonable expectations.
Meanwhile in dynasty... Tucker is an easy and recommended dart throw in the later rounds of a rookie draft. Again, you have to get in early or else you miss the train in that circumstance.
Ultimately, the work guys are putting in on this board now is how they stay ahead in their leagues. I respect the hell out of it... Jim Finks (former Vikings, Bears and Saints GM) said it best: 'There are no geniuses and there are no shortcuts'. Some might take heed.
Ultimately to me I go back to information, man... there is no substitute and no expiration date.
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eighsse2
Footballguy
Agreed. I have never played redraft, but if I had to do a draft right now ... little chance I'm touching Tucker unless it's a deep-roster league.
But in my 20-player dynasty league? Would love to have him in there in my bottom four offensive assets.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I took him in several redrafts earlier in the offseason, even before the NFL draft, because he was so high on so many people's boards. Meno above pointed out there may have been a gulf between the FF world and NFL world in terms of how high they were on this guy, but all I know is that lots of FF people were very high predraft. Maybe there was an echo chamber effect going on who knows. Nevertheless, once I saw the landing spot I basically moved him down in my redraft spreadsheet to be one of my first drops, unless White slips in the shower before week 1 or something. Certainly could be a hot pickup off the wire if something happens, and if it is more or less obvious that he is the #2 in the rotation going into week 1, then maybe a lot of folks roster him.
But ultimately it seems like there isn't much to see here until there is.
But ultimately it seems like there isn't much to see here until there is.
"Tucker was splitting the first team reps with Rachaad White, while it was only one drive it is definitely something to monitor. "
Let’s be real. The 1st team reps for Tucker were likely only so that he could be in closer proximity with the water that he carries and provides for White, being that White was a 3rd rounder and Tucker an UDFA.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Water is so 60s
