Remember when, around a year ago, a lot of people complained that this forum skewed left? (1 Viewer)

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

 "But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs."

There's no question that Jesus' symbolism here depicted Israelites as God's children and this woman—or her child—as a "little dog;" not even as a person. However, Jesus was not trying to be hurtful. He was comparing the nature of God's relationship with His chosen people Israel to those in the rest of the world who practiced pagan idolatry. He said this to prove the woman's humility and faith, knowing He will shortly reward both (Matthew 15:28).

And when I recognize that I have been the beneficiary of white privilege I am not trying to be hurtful.  And when I suggest that others have benefitted I am not trying to be hurtful.  I'm just comparing the true nature of our societies historical relationship with the chosen people and the rest of the people who were not white.  And I say that as someone who comes from a family that largely was too little (poor) and/or too late to benefit much at all, but still privileged in many ways.

In fact how is "white privilege" hurtful at all?  I mean other than in a "truth hurts" way?  Does it really deny any credit for one might have accomplished?   Does it deny other hurdles?   Why is it a hurtful to acknowledge?

It is racists is the sense that "white skin color" means presuming another attribute such as "privilege" but if that is the working definition of racism being used right now then I'm pretty confident  saying that there are so few exception that we can functionally say that everyone is a racists.  And if we ignore the all knowing part then that would include Jesus.

 

[The Commish]

And when I recognize that I have been the beneficiary of white privilege I am not trying to be hurtful.  And when I suggest that others have benefitted I am not trying to be hurtful.  I'm just comparing the true nature of our societies historical relationship with the chosen people and the rest of the people who were not white.  And I say that as someone who comes from a family that largely was too little (poor) and/or too late to benefit much at all, but still privileged in many ways.

In fact how is "white privilege" hurtful at all?  I mean other than in a "truth hurts" way?  Does it really deny any credit for one might have accomplished?   Does it deny other hurdles?   Why is it a hurtful to acknowledge?

It is racists is the sense that "white skin color" means presuming another attribute such as "privilege" but if that is the working definition of racism being used right now then I'm pretty confident  saying that there are so few exception that we can functionally say that everyone is a racists.  And if we ignore the all knowing part then that would include Jesus.

 

It's apparently hurtful to a great many.  They are offended when people suggest that they had "help" in any way much less in ways that were completely out of their control.  Personally, I don't get it, but it seems that humility that comes from self awareness is a "weakness" that should be avoided.  That has to be an incredibly burdensome way to live.  

And not to get too theological in this thread, but as Christians, we KNOW the source of everything we have, and none of it is because of us as individuals.  It's because of grace.   "I did that" flies directly in the face of "Christ did that, through me".  

 

[squistion]

It does not matter.  Christ was not a racist so would never say a racist phrase like white privilege. 

Jon_mx now speaks for Christ or what Christ would have said. 

 

[Opie]

And when I recognize that I have been the beneficiary of white privilege I am not trying to be hurtful.  And when I suggest that others have benefitted I am not trying to be hurtful.  I'm just comparing the true nature of our societies historical relationship with the chosen people and the rest of the people who were not white.  And I say that as someone who comes from a family that largely was too little (poor) and/or too late to benefit much at all, but still privileged in many ways.

In fact how is "white privilege" hurtful at all?  I mean other than in a "truth hurts" way?  Does it really deny any credit for one might have accomplished?   Does it deny other hurdles?   Why is it a hurtful to acknowledge?

It is racists is the sense that "white skin color" means presuming another attribute such as "privilege" but if that is the working definition of racism being used right now then I'm pretty confident  saying that there are so few exception that we can functionally say that everyone is a racists.  And if we ignore the all knowing part then that would include Jesus.

Ahh...but are you a card carrier??

 

[dkp993]

This thread has now managed to provoke the holy trinity of passionate topics (race, politics and religion) all in the last 2 pages.  Yeah this will go well.  

 

[Joe Bryant]

Jon_mx now speaks for Christ or what Christ would have said. 

When we talk about shots at the other poster with zero comment on the actual topic, this is what we're talking about.

I have no idea what Jon said but I doubt he's saying he speaks for Jesus. 

But it's not difficult to say whether something would be in line or not with Jesus' (or anyone's) teachings. I'm guessing that's we meant. I'm guessing you know that. 

Everyone please take less shots at the other posters and do more talking on the subject. And please excuse me for doing that here but the topic I'm trying to address is how I'd like to see us communicate here on the forum.

Thanks. 

 

[Stealthycat]

I recognize that I have been the beneficiary of white privilege

man I wish I'd have had ANY of that mystical priv thing I've heard so much about

 

[BladeRunner]

man I wish I'd have had ANY of that mystical priv thing I've heard so much about

TBH, I don't really care.  Life is tough all over and unfair.  It always will be.  We've rectified a LOT of things since the 60's and it will NEVER be good enough. EVER.  The professional grievance groups will always be looking for more power and more money.

 

[dkp993]

TBH, I don't really care. 

Sure and that's certainly your right.  But my point about it is that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't real.

 

[BladeRunner]

Sure and that's certainly your right.  But my point about it is that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't real.

Sure, but:

a) I don't think it is nearly as prevalent as the race hustlers and professional grievance groups want you to think. That is their payday - no way are they ever going to let that go.

b) At some point enough is enough.  Like I said, we've rectified a LOT - to the point where we now discriminate against other races in favor of black people.   Which, if you think about it, is weird that we battle discrimination with even more discrimination.

 

[dkp993]

Sure, but:

a) I don't think it is nearly as prevalent as the race hustlers and professional grievance groups want you to think. That is their payday - no way are they ever going to let that go.

b) At some point enough is enough.  Like I said, we've rectified a LOT - to the point where we now discriminate against other races in favor of black people.   Which, if you think about it, is weird that we battle discrimination with even more discrimination.

A) There are aspects of what you're saying here that I don't disagree with.  As with anything there are people to take something to an extreme and use it to their advantage.  

B) this is a much more nuanced and lengthy conversation that is better had over beers then the hours it would take to type.  But in its shortest possible version I don't believe acknowledging that being born into a majority has inherent advantages promotes discrimination.  No more then saying being born in America has an advantage over being born Mogadishu.   

 

[squistion]

When we talk about shots at the other poster with zero comment on the actual topic, this is what we're talking about.

I have no idea what Jon said but I doubt he's saying he speaks for Jesus. 

But it's not difficult to say whether something would be in line or not with Jesus' (or anyone's) teachings. I'm guessing that's we meant. I'm guessing you know that. 

Everyone please take less shots at the other posters and do more talking on the subject. And please excuse me for doing that here but the topic I'm trying to address is how I'd like to see us communicate here on the forum.

Thanks. 

Joe, with all due respect, if I were to make a post that Jesus Christ would say that fantasy football is an abomination, I would be presumptuous enough to be speaking for him. That is different than saying I don't think FF is in line with the teachings of Jesus.

It is offensive for me to hear anyone tell me what Jesus would or would not be doing or would or would not be saying in regards to contemporary matters or issues that didn't exist when he was on this earth.

That said, yes, I will be drop this and will be glad to move on to the subject being discussed, which seems to be about "white privilege" 

 

[tonydead]

Joe, with all due respect, if I were to make a post that Jesus Christ would say that fantasy football is an abomination, I would be presumptuous enough to be speaking for him. That is different than saying I don't think FF is in line with the teachings of Jesus.

It is offensive for me to hear anyone tell me what Jesus would or would not be doing or would or would not be saying in regards to contemporary matters or issues that didn't exist when he was on this earth.

That said, yes, I will be drop this and will be glad to move on to the subject, which seems to be a discussion of "white privilege" 

You missed the whole point. 

Did your post contribute anything - no.  Was it taking a pot shot at Jon - yes.  The End.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

But in its shortest possible version I don't believe acknowledging that being born into a majority has inherent advantages promotes discrimination.  No more then saying being born in America has an advantage over being born Mogadishu.   

Great way of putting it.

 

[Shula-holic]

Sure, but:

a) I don't think it is nearly as prevalent as the race hustlers and professional grievance groups want you to think. That is their payday - no way are they ever going to let that go.

b) At some point enough is enough.  Like I said, we've rectified a LOT - to the point where we now discriminate against other races in favor of black people.   Which, if you think about it, is weird that we battle discrimination with even more discrimination.

To me this comes down to where I don't think a lot of people truly want equality.  They want equity.  They are two totally different things.  I'm all for the first, with every fiber of my being  But to try and force the second would likely lead to some very very bad places.

 

[BladeRunner]

To me this comes down to where I don't think a lot of people truly want equality.  They want equity.  They are two totally different things.  I'm all for the first, with every fiber of my being  But to try and force the second would likely lead to some very very bad places.

Agreed 1 BAZILLION percent.

 

[shadrap]

To me this comes down to where I don't think a lot of people truly want equality.  They want equity.  They are two totally different things.  I'm all for the first, with every fiber of my being  But to try and force the second would likely lead to some very very bad places.

agree big time!

nice post-again.

 

[tonydead]

I think we have a consensus!  

 

[dkp993]

To me this comes down to where I don't think a lot of people truly want equality.  They want equity.  They are two totally different things.  I'm all for the first, with every fiber of my being  But to try and force the second would likely lead to some very very bad places.

Very reasonable.  But I'm not sure how this lines up with human nature and how being a part of the majority inherently gives you and advantage others outside of the majority don't have.  While I agree with your premise it doesn't mean that a "privilege" or advantage doesn't exist.  

 

[supermike80]

Very reasonable.  But I'm not sure how this lines up with human nature and how being a part of the majority inherently gives you and advantage others outside of the majority don't have.  While I agree with your premise it doesn't mean that a "privilege" or advantage doesn't exist.  

Yeah but isn't that his point?   Ok.  I have white privledge.   Now what?  Its the now what I have an issue with.

Reparations?

Only allowing people of color the ability to interview the mayor of a large American city?

Different standards for whites vs. Everyone else?

Thats where I say no and where I feel thats making things far far worse

 

[Sinn Fein]

Thats where I say no and where I feel thats making things far far worse

Isn’t that simply a matter of perspective?

Some people might say that status quo continues to make things worse. 

 

[dkp993]

Yeah but isn't that his point?   Ok.  I have white privledge.   Now what?  Its the now what I have an issue with.

Reparations?

Only allowing people of color the ability to interview the mayor of a large American city?

Different standards for whites vs. Everyone else?

Thats where I say no and where I feel thats making things far far worse

Great questions.  And I'm not sure.  I'm not in line with reparations or dividing/boiling everything down to race.  But I think at least it starts with understanding it's real and having some empathy.  I carry not 1 ounce of guilt for being a white male, no more so then I do for winning the genetic lotto of being born in the US.  I was also born to a very poor lower middle class family and have earned every inch of what I have.  But I also understand despite this I still had advantages others don't.  I believe if we start from that place of understanding we can at least start to work on the extremely complicated solutions (of which I don't claim to know the answers too).  But denying it's a reality (which you aren't doing and I'm not saying you are) doesn't lead us on a path to a solution.

 

[supermike80]

Isn’t that simply a matter of perspective?

Some people might say that status quo continues to make things worse. 

Its absolutely a matter of perspective. Im speaking for my feelings on the matter.

Thats why I said *I* say no.

 

[BladeRunner]

Great questions.  And I'm not sure.  I'm not in line with reparations or dividing/boiling everything down to race.  But I think at least it starts with understanding it's real and having some empathy.  I carry not 1 ounce of guilt for being a white male, no more so then I do for winning the genetic lotto of being born in the US.  I was also born to a very poor lower middle class family and have earned every inch of what I have.  But I also understand despite this I still had advantages others don't.  I believe if we start from that place of understanding we can at least start to work on the extremely complicated solutions (of which I don't claim to know the answers too).  But denying it's a reality (which you aren't doing and I'm not saying you are) doesn't lead us on a path to a solution.

What advantages did you have that others didn't?

There is privilege in EVERYTHING, not just race.  Economics, physical attributes, family, location.  Do we make EVERYTHING fair now?

 

[dkp993]

What advantages did you have that others didn't?

There is privilege in EVERYTHING, not just race.  Economics, physical attributes, family, location.  Do we make EVERYTHING fair now?

Being a white man in America (the majority) gave me inherent advantages in most situations of not having to face the reality of prejudices being non-white does.   Beyond that simple explanation it goes back to my original reply to you that it's a better and more involved conversation had in person where I wouldn't have to spend hours typing.  lol.  It's a complex and layered topic imo.  

The bolded is a very philosophical question of which I'm sure an entire semester course could be dedicated too.  But one thing I do know is it doesn't start with staying it doesn't exist.  

 

[Shula-holic]

Very reasonable.  But I'm not sure how this lines up with human nature and how being a part of the majority inherently gives you and advantage others outside of the majority don't have.  While I agree with your premise it doesn't mean that a "privilege" or advantage doesn't exist.  

What remedy outside of equality would you advocate for?  We are talking for the most part about sins that were before any of our time here.  That's not to say in a naive way that the country is perfect or racism doesn't exist.  But equality and treating everyone equally is the best prescription I can think of to help fix those things and judging people on their own merit.  Any solution that involves ensuring equal outcomes for every racial group, gender, belief, religion, whatever it may be, I admit I'm just not interested in.

 

[dkp993]

What remedy outside of equality would you advocate for?  We are talking for the most part about sins that were before any of our time here.  That's not to say in a naive way that the country is perfect or racism doesn't exist.  But equality and treating everyone equally is the best prescription I can think of to help fix those things and judging people on their own merit.  Any solution that involves ensuring equal outcomes for every racial group, gender, belief, religion, whatever it may be, I admit I'm just not interested in.

Re: Bolded.

Simply put, I just don't know.  Smarter people then I have tried and failed to seek a solution. But that wasn't the point of my involving myself in the discussion. I was just pointing out that the privilege is real, and I think by people denying that it is (as others here have) it only ends up marginalizing and pushing people more away not bring them together.  That's why I mention empathy, a little of it goes a long way toward understanding and problem solving.  

 

[Shula-holic]

It’s not equal outcomes, it’s equal ingredients. Your last statement is sad, apathy breeds contempt which I think is a lot of what we see when addressing this issue. 

Equal ingredients prescribed by who and what exact ingredients?  We cannot dictate outcomes because people do not have the same ability levels be it academically, athletically, or even emotionally.  Every person is unique and different.

Again, I'm all for equality.  If we are here to say that we have a problem when a black kid comes into a store he may be watched or followed because of his skin color and we should be conscious of that issues and others like it,, amen to that too.  But if the solution is to say that Mary who got a 30 on her ACT doesn't get into the school of her choice because she has the wrong skin color and Sarah who has a 26 on the same exam with equal credentials does get in because she has the right skin color, then apathy would be the kindest adjective I could think of for my feelings on that.

 

[John123]

Great questions.  And I'm not sure.  I'm not in line with reparations or dividing/boiling everything down to race.  But I think at least it starts with understanding it's real and having some empathy.  I carry not 1 ounce of guilt for being a white male, no more so then I do for winning the genetic lotto of being born in the US.  I was also born to a very poor lower middle class family and have earned every inch of what I have.  But I also understand despite this I still had advantages others don't.  I believe if we start from that place of understanding we can at least start to work on the extremely complicated solutions (of which I don't claim to know the answers too).  But denying it's a reality (which you aren't doing and I'm not saying you are) doesn't lead us on a path to a solution.

Who do you think has/had more advantages growing up, you or Lebron James' kid? 

 

[Shula-holic]

Re: Bolded.

Simply put, I just don't know.  Smarter people then I have tried and failed to seek a solution. But that wasn't the point of my involving myself in the discussion. I was just pointing out that the privilege is real, and I think by people denying that it is (as others here have) it only ends up marginalizing and pushing people more away not bring them together.  That's why I mention empathy, a little of it goes a long way toward understanding and problem solving.  

I follow what you're saying.  When you mention empathy and understanding, I agree it's important to realize these issues and try and treat people fairly as individuals.  And I agree, the goal should be to bring people together.  We have a pretty large rift in our society today and I think most of us agree that rift is getting worse, not better.  I don't think trying to fix a past generation's discrimination with discrimination today does anything but breed hatred. 

 

[bigmarc27]

Equal ingredients prescribed by who and what exact ingredients?  We cannot dictate outcomes because people do not have the same ability levels be it academically, athletically, or even emotionally.  Every person is unique and different.

Again, I'm all for equality.  If we are here to say that we have a problem when a black kid comes into a store he may be watched or followed because of his skin color and we should be conscious of that issues and others like it,, amen to that too.  But if the solution is to say that Mary who got a 30 on her ACT doesn't get into the school of her choice because she has the wrong skin color and Sarah who has a 26 on the same exam with equal credentials does get in because she has the right skin color, then apathy would be the kindest adjective I could think of for my feelings on that.

I posted two areas to start in this very thread. 

 

[bigmarc27]

Who do you think has/had more advantages growing up, you or Lebron James' kid? 

Oh, thank God Lebrun is able to give everyone a head start. That example of one was powerful, we can definitely forget the millions of others. 

 

[tonydead]

It’s not equal outcomes, it’s equal ingredients. Your last statement is sad, apathy breeds contempt which I think is a lot of what we see when addressing this issue. 

That's a distinction without a difference really.  If everyone had been born to powerful money rich people (equal ingredients) everyone would be successful just like the Trump kids and Hunter Biden.  That's what you want?  Not me, different ingredients, different stories, different outcomes is what makes us great. 

I think we should find ways to end poverty, but equal ingredients, no thanks.

 

[John123]

Oh, thank God Lebrun is able to give everyone a head start. That example of one was powerful, we can definitely forget the millions of others. 

It's amazing how defensive people get when presented with a thought that challenges their world view.

 

[dkp993]

Who do you think has/had more advantages growing up, you or Lebron James' kid? 

Depends on how you’re qualifying it. Certainly in someways they have some massive advantages in wealth, celebrity, access And likely athletic. But in other ways I have advantages, they still have to face prejudices that I don’t.

 

[Shula-holic]

I posted two areas to start in this very thread. 

I think it's a noble goal but I don't think funding is the main issue.  I can't speak nationally, but I can speak for our state as my wife is involved in education.  Some of our worst districts already have the highest per student spending.  Now, our top district is a wealthy one but it's also our wealthiest city/suburb in the state.  I can look the link up for you if you like, but there was a study done on it showing our top 50 districts in the state by per pupil spending  Out of our top 20 in spending there's only 4-5 you'd want your kid going near. 

The biggest problems in those districts are parents.  My wife taught in one and we have friends who do.  It's a notable thing when they have a parent take interest in their child's homework enough to email or come to a meeting.  That isn't the case in other districts.  I'm not some overly religious person, in fact most of the so called pagan lefties here have likely been to church more than I have in the past 20 years.  But we have a serious issue with family breakdowns and parenting.  In many cases some of these parents do heroic jobs and do their best with what they have, but when you talk about ingredients, having an involved mother and father is the most important one IMO.  Who of us would have been a great student if our parents hadn't pushed us?

 

[bigmarc27]

That's a distinction without a difference really.  If everyone had been born to powerful money rich people (equal ingredients) everyone would be successful just like the Trump kids and Hunter Biden.  That's what you want?  Not me, different ingredients, different stories, different outcomes is what makes us great. 

I think we should find ways to end poverty, but equal ingredients, no thanks.

I think it’s a huge difference.  I’m not talking generational wealth, I’m talking about the difference of a kid who was born 3 blocks down the road from another where his school district was filtered into a much worse education. I’m talking about a mom who works three jobs to provide for her kids and isn’t there to read to them at night.  Some where want you to believe that minorities want handouts and competitive advantage (and revenge!?!?).  That’s not the case anymore than the occasional poor white trash down the street. They want to provide and earn just like anyone else. 

 

[BladeRunner]

Equal ingredients prescribed by who and what exact ingredients?  We cannot dictate outcomes because people do not have the same ability levels be it academically, athletically, or even emotionally.  Every person is unique and different.

Again, I'm all for equality.  If we are here to say that we have a problem when a black kid comes into a store he may be watched or followed because of his skin color and we should be conscious of that issues and others like it,, amen to that too.  But if the solution is to say that Mary who got a 30 on her ACT doesn't get into the school of her choice because she has the wrong skin color and Sarah who has a 26 on the same exam with equal credentials does get in because she has the right skin color, then apathy would be the kindest adjective I could think of for my feelings on that.

Well said!

Equal outcomes is a non-starter.  Try forcing that on people at your own risk.  It won't end well, that's for sure.

 

[BladeRunner]

It's amazing how defensive people get when presented with a thought that challenges their world view.

Yep.  We're supposed to take everything he says seriously and he just shrugs anything else off as if it's a joke.

IMO, if you're unwilling to think it thru and think your way is the only way, then we know FOR SURE your way is definitely the wrong way.  Lots of unnecessary white guilt is causing people to lose their minds.

 

[BladeRunner]

I think it’s a huge difference.  I’m not talking generational wealth, I’m talking about the difference of a kid who was born 3 blocks down the road from another where his school district was filtered into a much worse education. I’m talking about a mom who works three jobs to provide for her kids and isn’t there to read to them at night.  Some where want you to believe that minorities want handouts and competitive advantage (and revenge!?!?).  That’s not the case anymore than the occasional poor white trash down the street. They want to provide and earn just like anyone else. 

And we've been making amends for at least 60 years now. 

Do me a favor: please rewrite your post and use "poor black trash" instead.  Feel even better now?  Still believe that YOU aren't racist? 

You've got some nerve responding to posts about inherent racism and then use a racist term yourself.

 

[John123]

Depends on how you’re qualifying it. Certainly in someways they have some massive advantages in wealth, celebrity, access And likely athletic. But in other ways I have advantages, they still have to face prejudices that I don’t.

I don't buy this.  Sorry.  I mean, it's possible they face prejudices that you don't.  And you face prejudices that they don't.  Prejudice exists.  It's not going anywhere.  In fact, all these laws/policies that favor one race over another are just going to make things worse, and we were making such progress so that's sad.  Anyone who thinks there's anything we can do to eliminate prejudice is living in a fantasy world.  So, the question we need to ask is if we're minimizing them and enacting policies and laws that create an even playing field.  If you can point to specific policies or laws that are prejudicial in nature we should absolutely get rid of them.  But vague "they face prejudices that I don't" isn't very constructive to this discussion IMO. 

 

[BladeRunner]

I’m white.  You hear that dog whistle?

Also 60 whole years?  Oh, wow. 60 years. Wow, that does seem like a lot of time.  Enslave people for centuries, but let them go without support and expect them to catch up in 60 years. You’re right, #### ‘em!

Don't care if you're white. If your white guilt has taken hold of you so strong then using ANY racist term should be off the table. 

No one is saying, ####'em except you, but to imply that "white privilege" has made us all millionaires is BS.  We've been making amends but for guys like you it's never going to be enough - like I've said ad-nauseum before. 

Fighting RACISM! with even more RACISM!! is not the answer.

 

[dkp993]

I don't buy this.  Sorry.  I mean, it's possible they face prejudices that you don't.  And you face prejudices that they don't.  Prejudice exists.  It's not going anywhere.  In fact, all these laws/policies that favor one race over another are just going to make things worse, and we were making such progress so that's sad.  Anyone who thinks there's anything we can do to eliminate prejudice is living in a fantasy world.  So, the question we need to ask is if we're minimizing them and enacting policies and laws that create an even playing field.  If you can point to specific policies or laws that are prejudicial in nature we should absolutely get rid of them.  But vague "they face prejudices that I don't" isn't very constructive to this discussion IMO. 

Well I’m sorry you’re not buying, but the good news is I wasn’t selling. Simply giving my opinions which you can take or throw away at will. And if you don’t feel I’m being constructive to the discussion feel free to not reply.  Not sure why you feel I owe you needing to meet your qualifications of discussion.  

 

[John123]

Well I’m sorry you’re not buying, but the good news is I wasn’t selling. Simply giving my opinions which you can take or throw away at will. And if you don’t feel I’m being constructive to the discussion feel free to not reply.  Not sure why you feel I owe you meeting your qualifications of discussion.  

Wow, it's like you read the first two sentences of my reply and then ignored the rest.  Bummer.

 

[dkp993]

Wow, it's like you read the first two sentences of my reply and then ignored the rest.  Bummer.

No I read it all and there’s points in there worthy of discussion, but it gets lost when you decide to come hot.  There was a nice civil conversation going between a few of us, you decided to be judgmental and argumentative so I chose not to reply to those discussion points. 

 

[zoonation]

It's amazing how defensive people get when presented with a thought that challenges their world view.

Your example isn’t really persuasive as a retort to the point.  But you know that. 

 

[Sinn Fein]

Its absolutely a matter of perspective. Im speaking for my feelings on the matter.

Thats why I said *I* say no.

Seems pretty selfish.  

 

[Sinn Fein]

No one is saying, ####'em except you,

Generations of people and government said "####'em"

But, lets just pretend that never happened.

 

[John123]

Your example isn’t really persuasive as a retort to the point.  But you know that. 

No, I don't know that at all.  I get that people such as you and bigmarc may want to just shut it down as an absurd example but it's perfectly legitimate to discuss whether Lebron's kids have the same barriers that other black kids do, just as it's legitimate to discuss whether poor white kids have the same barriers as Lebron's, or equivalently poor black kids. 

 

[BladeRunner]

Generations of people and government said "####'em"

But, lets just pretend that never happened.

Who said that?