Eephus
Footballguy
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=4740695
It only seems like #39 Eric Chavez has been on the DL all decade
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Rob Neyer's Top 100 Players of the Decade (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Eephus
- Start date
JaxBill
Footballguy
I hate these kind of lists because they always skew it towards players who enter in the beginning of the decade.
For example, Carlos Lee who has won 2 Silver slugger awards is on the list, but the player who was the 2005 NL ROY, 206 NL MVP, and the 2009 NLCS MVP is not. Who had a bigger effect on the decade?
For example, Carlos Lee who has won 2 Silver slugger awards is on the list, but the player who was the 2005 NL ROY, 206 NL MVP, and the 2009 NLCS MVP is not. Who had a bigger effect on the decade?
Eephus
Footballguy
Yeah, it seems kind of arbitrary to exclude players who were active in the latter part of the decade. Ryan Howard had more plate appearances since 2000 than Larry Walker but doesn't make the cut. But aside from the guys who were overlooked, the list is a decent reminder of guys who have been pretty good over the past ten years.
Tremendous Upside
Footballguy
Corey Koskie FTW
oso diablo
Footballguy
while i am the anti-RP guy, i would put Rivera significantly higher on this list.
likewise with Randy Johnson and his 3 Cy Youngs. maybe as high as #6 ahead of Beltran.
likewise with Randy Johnson and his 3 Cy Youngs. maybe as high as #6 ahead of Beltran.
oso diablo
Footballguy
his top 5 is really solid, but it starts to go haywire after that, sometimes comically so.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I hate the yanks but Rivera deserves one of the top spots.
Tremendous Upside
Footballguy
His Rivera rating seems to be entirely based on sheer volume of IPs, regardless of the context of Rivera's role
This methodology seems pretty faulty to me
Seems like a WIS overvaluation of quantity of IPs and PAs over quality
This methodology seems pretty faulty to me
Seems like a WIS overvaluation of quantity of IPs and PAs over quality
Eephus
Footballguy
It was a sad end to Koskie's career. You don't usually think of concussions as a baseball injury. But he wasn't exactly an ironman prior to coming to Milwaukee. His decade resume is based on solid 2000-3 seasons and some change. As much as I can't stand Juan Pierre, I think he would have been a better pick than Koskie.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
I thought this was a joke. And Ryan Howard really isn't on there?
Clifton
Footballguy
Just getting through this list - JD Drew 22
Clifton
Footballguy
Carlos deserves to be on this list. He's been a beast.
RnR
Footballguy
I'll agree Manny should be higher. But Edmonds and Rolen were all-around baseball players. Very underrated.
editor47
Footballguy
i will give you edmonds. i think rolen is pretty overrated. yeah he has talent. but he seems to be hurt more than he isn't. he's a great defensive player. but he played his way out of two towns. one of which is almost impossible to do.if ryan howard isn't on this list, its disgraceful.
oso diablo
Footballguy
has Neyer addressed this? wondering if it wasn't more of a brain fart than a purposeful exclusion. I know he took the Wins Above Replacement Player stat as his starting list, and then made adjustments. I'm assuming that Howard didn't score well on that stat.I think that statistic is a fine starting point, but there should have been more consideration given to other factors. For example, Trevor Hoffman didn't make the list at all. He played in 5 all-star games in the decade, and had 363 saves, which would be enough for #8 all-time for a career. I don't think you can really tell the story of the 2000s in MLB without Trevor Hoffman in the cast somewhere.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
It's easy to pick apart the list. He did a pretty good job, imo. Sure you could move people up or down, but it is an opinion.
What I can't understand... Why in the world is Melvin Mora listed? And at 61? It must be like the All Star game and someone from each team had to be represented.
What I can't understand... Why in the world is Melvin Mora listed? And at 61? It must be like the All Star game and someone from each team had to be represented.
the moops
Footballguy
Of active players he is12th in OBP28th in BB30th in SLG26th in OPS25th in OPS+42nd in runs created47th in runs scored22nd may be a bit high but he deserves a good ranking in this list. It helps that he is just the right age (first year of full time play was in 1999).-edit- and one of the best defensive RF'ers in all of baseball year in and year out.Just getting through this list - JD Drew 22
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Billy Bats
Footballguy
11. Scott Rolen
13. Manny Ramirez
I shut my computer off to stop wasting my time.
13. Manny Ramirez
I shut my computer off to stop wasting my time.
Billy Bats
Footballguy
One of the greatest offensive seasons ever. Ever. By anyone. It's a pretty silly list.
RnR
Footballguy
I'm not going to make an argument that portrays Rolen as a better hitter than Manny. Not even close... But if I were starting a baseball team from scratch, I'd take a healthy Rolen over a healthy Manny without hesitation. Aside from being amongst the upper echelon of hitters in his prime and most certainly one of the best hitting 3rd basemen of the era, Rolen is one of the best defensive 3rd basemen in the history of the game. He's also widely regarded as one of the best base runners (not base stealer) in baseball. He's a complete baseball player. He comes to the field everyday giving the team a chance to win with his glove, bat, and hustle. It is really a shame that fluke shoulder injury zapped him of his power.Manny can rake with some of the best in baseball history, but he is a very incomplete baseball player.
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the moops
Footballguy
Indeed
Clifton
Footballguy
You guys can have him.
Chairshot
Footballguy
Seriously?I get that Rolen is a very, very good defender. But Manny has him beat by like 40 points of OPS+ for the decade. Manny was/is a *much* better hitter. I love defense as much as the next guy, but I think the vast difference in hitting more then makes up for Rolens D. And I say that as a die hard Yankee fan.That said, I think it's splitting hairs, as far as the list goes, because there really can't be *that* much difference between 11 and 13 on a list like this.The thing that surprises me a little more is that he has Chipper Jones at 7, while openly acknowledging that his defense has sucked. I think Chipper was/is a great 3B (and a virtual lock for the HOF, and rightly so), but again, if defense doesn't count that much, then Manny was clearly the better hitter among all 3 of those players.Maybe he took points off for suspected PED abuse over that time?I'm also a little surprised that he has Pedro so low. I realize he hasn't been amazing the past couple of years, but he *still* has a 152 ERA+ for the decade, which is better then any starter on the list ahead of him, including guys who haven't even played for the whole decade (thus, seemingly having less impact). I get that other pitchers have been more consistent across the decade, but Pedro's first half was so dominate - all the while pitching right into the teeth of the "steroid era" - we may never see another pitcher like him in our lifetime.I like that he gave Edmonds some love. Definitely an under-rated player. Also love that he had Berkman pretty high, he's another player that gets over looked all the time. If Berkman had been a Yankee his whole career, everyone would be talking about how he is well on his way to a HOF career. As it is, he might end up in Alan Trammell/Rock Raines territory.Fun list, for sure.
oso diablo
Footballguy
i was thinking Reggie Smith - just to throw out a name off the top of my head. HOF-wise, Berkman won't come close to Raines/Trammell. Or at least i don't think he should.p.s. Belle may be a better comp than Smith.
Chairshot
Footballguy
Do you mean that you don't feel Berkman will have the legit credentials to be a HOF candidate? Or that the voters will treat him differently then Raines/Trammell?
Eephus
Footballguy
Berkman is currently fourth among active players in OPS and could end his career with 2500 Hs and 500 HRs. Those numbers coupled with a growing acceptance of walks as an valuable asset will earn him serious consideration. Of course, his numbers could also hit a wall like Rice and Raines' did.
It remains to be seen how future voters deal with the offensive numbers of the steroid era, but I think Berkman will be a guy who stays on the ballot for a long time but probably ends up on the outside.
It remains to be seen how future voters deal with the offensive numbers of the steroid era, but I think Berkman will be a guy who stays on the ballot for a long time but probably ends up on the outside.
oso diablo
Footballguy
a little of both, i guess.he's not a guy i've really thought much about in the context of the HOF, even though i am a fan of his batting skills. I could be convinced otherwise, but off-the-cuff, he felt like a 2-ballots-and-out sort of guy. That's assuming he has a typical late career arc (aka fade). If he reaches the milestones that Eephus suggests, then that's a different story, but the odds are against that.as for the voters, i don't think they've treated Raines/Trammell correctly, as i would vote for both candidates.
Chairshot
Footballguy
I don't know. Looking at Berkman's stats right now, I think he already compares pretty favorably to HOF 1Bs. He is already ahead of a number of HOFers in many categories and probably still has 4-5 good years left.We obviously won't know until he hangs them up, but it seems very likely that he will have the stats to be considered. Now, whether that means the voters will take notice of him is a different story. I suspect he will fall into the Raines/Trammell zone in that he will be deserving but get overlooked because the writers don't think "Hall of Famer!" when they look at him.
Eephus
Footballguy
Eight minute quiz of the decade's top performers
http://www.sporcle.com/games/brewerfan8/mlb_2000_top10
http://www.sporcle.com/games/brewerfan8/mlb_2000_top10
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
Spelling crushed me on this one.Eephus said:
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