Robert Griffin III - Scrambling Ability (1 Viewer)

[SayWhat?]

Admitedly, I haven't seen enough of RG3 to feel confident in my assessment of his fantasy outlook as it specifically relates to the added benefit of his rushing ability. That said, what concerns me is the relatively paltry rushing numbers that he actually put up throughout his college career:

2011: 179-699-10, 3.9ypc

2010: 149-635-8, 4.3ypc

2009: 27-77-2, 2.9ypc

2008: 173-846-13, 4.9ypc

Career: 528-2257-33, 4.3ypc

While it seems as though Baylor's offense wasn't tailored towards lots of designed runs like Auburn's was when Newton was there, and I believe sacks in college count against the quarterback's rushing statistics, but with RG3's freakish athleticism and speed I guess I expected more especially in terms of yards per carry so these numbers just don't pop out at me. Again, I know numbers aren't everything in college so that's why I'm seeking more feedback. I think it's safe to assume that RG3 won't be getting nearly the rushing attempts in the NFL as he did in college, so is his rushing ability overated to a certain degree? As it relates specifically vs someone like Luck, whom he's often compared to, is there too much weight being put on RG3's rushing abilities?

Anyone with a better handle on this care to chime in to alleviate or expand on this concern of mine?

 

[rizzler]

he's a passing QB, first and foremost. His speed and elusiveness is an added bonus.

 

[Warrior]

Since you're comparing him to Newton, you should provide his rushing stats as well to give us some context. You say his rushing numbers are concerning to you...why? Are they a lot lower than Newton's? Is 4.3 YPC low for a college QB? I have no idea where you're coming from without some points of reference.

 

[SayWhat?]

he's a passing QB, first and foremost. His speed and elusiveness is an added bonus.

That's exactly my concern, especially as it relates in comparison to Luck, whom I consider a much better passing QB. Wouldn't you expect better rushing numbers from a QB with RG3's world class speed? I'm not entirely convinced on the elusiveness part, as he looks just a tad bit stiff when running with the ball IMO. But that's what I'm looking for feedback on.

 

[SayWhat?]

Since you're comparing him to Newton, you should provide his rushing stats as well to give us some context. You say his rushing numbers are concerning to you...why? Are they a lot lower than Newton's? Is 4.3 YPC low for a college QB? I have no idea where you're coming from without some points of reference.

Cam Newton - 264-1473-20, 5.6ypc

 

[SayWhat?]

Vick in 2000 went 104-617-8, 5.9ypc

 

[SayWhat?]

Vince Young

2004: 167-1079-14, 6.5ypc

2005: 155-1050-12, 6.8ypc

 

[Warrior]

I'm thinking you're going to need to treat this like and Aaron Rodgers situation, where you don't expect many rushing yards, but you're pleasantly surprised to see a handful after every game with a RuTD sprinkled in here and there. Heck, 35 yards rushing and .33 TD's per game would be an extra 5.5 free points stacked on top of his passing numbers in most leagues.

 

[ExaltedOne]

As far as rushing ability/style I think RG3 is more similar to Vick, while Luck is similar to Newton. RG3/Vick are more speed guys with rocket arms. Luck/Newton have good arms and their running style is more big/powerful.

I think RG3 and Luck are better passing prospects than either of their counterparts (although Newton is really good, I don't think many would say he was a better passer coming out).

I might be completely off base but this is how it looks to me.

 

[SayWhat?]

I'm thinking you're going to need to treat this like and Aaron Rodgers situation, where you don't expect many rushing yards, but you're pleasantly surprised to see a handful after every game with a RuTD sprinkled in here and there. Heck, 35 yards rushing and .33 TD's per game would be an extra 5.5 free points stacked on top of his passing numbers in most leagues.

That's a great way to approach it, but everyone that's touting RG3 over Luck seems to be primarily doing so because they see RG3 as an above average passer with Mike Vick like rushing ability. They makes it seem like RG3 is going to be the best scrambling QB in the league. But based on his college numbers and what I've seen of him, I'm extremely skeptical that he'll be an elite level scrambler, which to me would negate that perceived upside over Luck.

 

[Pipes]

he's a passing QB, first and foremost. His speed and elusiveness is an added bonus.

That's exactly my concern, especially as it relates in comparison to Luck, whom I consider a much better passing QB. Wouldn't you expect better rushing numbers from a QB with RG3's world class speed? I'm not entirely convinced on the elusiveness part, as he looks just a tad bit stiff when running with the ball IMO. But that's what I'm looking for feedback on.

Why do you feel this way? Luck has the advantage of having learned in the pro system but their passing numbers in college were very comparable and Griffin has the stronger arm and quicker release.

 

[Assani Fisher]

he's a passing QB, first and foremost. His speed and elusiveness is an added bonus.

That's exactly my concern, especially as it relates in comparison to Luck, whom I consider a much better passing QB. Wouldn't you expect better rushing numbers from a QB with RG3's world class speed? I'm not entirely convinced on the elusiveness part, as he looks just a tad bit stiff when running with the ball IMO. But that's what I'm looking for feedback on.

Why? I could understand thinking that Luck, being perhaps the GOAT prospect, has a passing edge over any other prospect ever including RGIII. However, "much" better seems like a stretch. What exactly doesn't impress you about RGIII's passing numbers?291/402(72.4%) for 4293 yards, 37 TDs, 6 INTs, 10.7 Y/A, 11.8 AY/A

Heres Luck's numbers for comparison:

288/404(71.3%) for 3517 yards, 37 TDs, 10 INTs, 8.7 Y/A, 9.4 AY/A

 

[SayWhat?]

As far as rushing ability/style I think RG3 is more similar to Vick, while Luck is similar to Newton. RG3/Vick are more speed guys with rocket arms. Luck/Newton have good arms and their running style is more big/powerful.

I think RG3 and Luck are better passing prospects than either of their counterparts (although Newton is really good, I don't think many would say he was a better passer coming out).

I might be completely off base but this is how it looks to me.

This is the crux of why I'm torn, because statistically that's not close to the case. For a quarterback with RG3's athletic traits, his scrambling numbers are IMO entirely underwhelming at the college level. As I'm not a college football junkie, I'm trying to figure out if those rushing stats are underwhelming because of the system he's in, type of play in which he scrambles, lack of instincts when running the ball, etc (i.e. is there a justifiable reason why RG3's rushing numberslook so much worse when comparing to the numbers of other great rushing QB's in college such as Newton, Young, and Vick)

 

[SayWhat?]

he's a passing QB, first and foremost. His speed and elusiveness is an added bonus.

That's exactly my concern, especially as it relates in comparison to Luck, whom I consider a much better passing QB. Wouldn't you expect better rushing numbers from a QB with RG3's world class speed? I'm not entirely convinced on the elusiveness part, as he looks just a tad bit stiff when running with the ball IMO. But that's what I'm looking for feedback on.

Why do you feel this way? Luck has the advantage of having learned in the pro system but their passing numbers in college were very comparable and Griffin has the stronger arm and quicker release.

That's exactly the reason why. Luck looks like a natural. Griffin put up eye popping stats in a spread offense and makes plenty of wow plays, but he doesn't look quite as natural when dropping back from under center, which was not very often.

 

[SayWhat?]

he's a passing QB, first and foremost. His speed and elusiveness is an added bonus.

That's exactly my concern, especially as it relates in comparison to Luck, whom I consider a much better passing QB. Wouldn't you expect better rushing numbers from a QB with RG3's world class speed? I'm not entirely convinced on the elusiveness part, as he looks just a tad bit stiff when running with the ball IMO. But that's what I'm looking for feedback on.

Why? I could understand thinking that Luck, being perhaps the GOAT prospect, has a passing edge over any other prospect ever including RGIII. However, "much" better seems like a stretch. What exactly doesn't impress you about RGIII's passing numbers?291/402(72.4%) for 4293 yards, 37 TDs, 6 INTs, 10.7 Y/A, 11.8 AY/A

Heres Luck's numbers for comparison:

288/404(71.3%) for 3517 yards, 37 TDs, 10 INTs, 8.7 Y/A, 9.4 AY/A

See my last post Assani. I think that everyone is assuming that RG3 is going to have a pretty flawless transition to the pro game. While I think he'll do just fine, I think he struggles a bit more than most anticipate making the transition. That said, Luck vs RG3's passing upside isn't what I'm torn on so I feel that's a bit off track in terms of what I'd like this discussion to be centered around. Why does RG3's rushing production not mirror his insane athleticism nor come close to being on par with other elite college scrambling QB's of the past?

 

[Kenny Powers]

Although we only have 1 year to look at for Cam, it appears both him and Vick are 100-130 rushing attempt per yr guys in the NFL. Partially due to his build, but also considering his passing ability and mentality, I think RG3 will be more in the range of 75-85 attempts. That should get him in the ballpark of 400 rushing yards, which would firmly make him the 3rd most valuable QB in the NFL rushing wise. Thats a lot of gravy points, and I didnt even mention rushing TDs.

 

[Pipes]

he's a passing QB, first and foremost. His speed and elusiveness is an added bonus.

That's exactly my concern, especially as it relates in comparison to Luck, whom I consider a much better passing QB. Wouldn't you expect better rushing numbers from a QB with RG3's world class speed? I'm not entirely convinced on the elusiveness part, as he looks just a tad bit stiff when running with the ball IMO. But that's what I'm looking for feedback on.

Why do you feel this way? Luck has the advantage of having learned in the pro system but their passing numbers in college were very comparable and Griffin has the stronger arm and quicker release.

That's exactly the reason why. Luck looks like a natural. Griffin put up eye popping stats in a spread offense and makes plenty of wow plays, but he doesn't look quite as natural when dropping back from under center, which was not very often.

The NFL game is becoming more of a spread system nowadays with all the 4 and even 5 WR sets. NFL teams operate out of the shotgun more than ever now a days. I do agree that Luck has the advantage coming in but I don't think it's fair to penalize Griffin because of the system he played in college. It's not like he dinked and dunked his way to great passing stats...he threw the ball downfield and did so very effectively.

 

[Kenny Powers]

As far as rushing ability/style I think RG3 is more similar to Vick, while Luck is similar to Newton. RG3/Vick are more speed guys with rocket arms. Luck/Newton have good arms and their running style is more big/powerful.

I think RG3 and Luck are better passing prospects than either of their counterparts (although Newton is really good, I don't think many would say he was a better passer coming out).

I might be completely off base but this is how it looks to me.

This is the crux of why I'm torn, because statistically that's not close to the case. For a quarterback with RG3's athletic traits, his scrambling numbers are IMO entirely underwhelming at the college level. As I'm not a college football junkie, I'm trying to figure out if those rushing stats are underwhelming because of the system he's in, type of play in which he scrambles, lack of instincts when running the ball, etc (i.e. is there a justifiable reason why RG3's rushing numberslook so much worse when comparing to the numbers of other great rushing QB's in college such as Newton, Young, and Vick)

I didnt see a ton of RG3, but it appeared to me that RG3 held onto the ball longer in pocket under pressure than those other guys. He seemed to want to get away from the pressure but still look for the big play downfield, while with the other guys as soon as there was a breakdown, theyd tuck and run. With this in mind, I would assume that in most instances when RG3 would decide to run, he had less open field or defenders closer to him, limiting his RY/A. Hard to prove that, but I do think RG3 waits longer than the others to scramble.

 

[Pipes]

As far as rushing ability/style I think RG3 is more similar to Vick, while Luck is similar to Newton. RG3/Vick are more speed guys with rocket arms. Luck/Newton have good arms and their running style is more big/powerful.

I think RG3 and Luck are better passing prospects than either of their counterparts (although Newton is really good, I don't think many would say he was a better passer coming out).

I might be completely off base but this is how it looks to me.

This is the crux of why I'm torn, because statistically that's not close to the case. For a quarterback with RG3's athletic traits, his scrambling numbers are IMO entirely underwhelming at the college level. As I'm not a college football junkie, I'm trying to figure out if those rushing stats are underwhelming because of the system he's in, type of play in which he scrambles, lack of instincts when running the ball, etc (i.e. is there a justifiable reason why RG3's rushing numberslook so much worse when comparing to the numbers of other great rushing QB's in college such as Newton, Young, and Vick)

I didnt see a ton of RG3, but it appeared to me that RG3 held onto the ball longer in pocket under pressure than those other guys. He seemed to want to get away from the pressure but still look for the big play downfield, while with the other guys as soon as there was a breakdown, theyd tuck and run. With this in mind, I would assume that in most instances when RG3 would decide to run, he had less open field or defenders closer to him, limiting his RY/A. Hard to prove that, but I do think RG3 waits longer than the others to scramble.

Sorry to get sidetracked from your thread with Griffin's passing but I think this is the real reason to his "not so spectacular" rushing stats. Running was typically the 3rd or 4th option for RGIII while I think with guys like Vick and Cam if their 1st option was covered they just took off.

I think the comparison to Rodgers is a good one as far as rushing is concerned. I think RGIII will rush just enough to keep defenses on their toes but from a fantasy standpoint if you're expecting him to come anywhere near Newton's rushing numbers you'll be extremely dissapointed.

With that being said I still think you're really underrating RGIII's passing ability.

 

[mcintyre1]

Admitedly, I haven't seen enough of RG3 to feel confident in my assessment of his fantasy outlook as it specifically relates to the added benefit of his rushing ability. That said, what concerns me is the relatively paltry rushing numbers that he actually put up throughout his college career:2011: 179-699-10, 3.9ypc2010: 149-635-8, 4.3ypc2009: 27-77-2, 2.9ypc2008: 173-846-13, 4.9ypcCareer: 528-2257-33, 4.3ypcWhile it seems as though Baylor's offense wasn't tailored towards lots of designed runs like Auburn's was when Newton was there, and I believe sacks in college count against the quarterback's rushing statistics, but with RG3's freakish athleticism and speed I guess I expected more especially in terms of yards per carry so these numbers just don't pop out at me. Again, I know numbers aren't everything in college so that's why I'm seeking more feedback. I think it's safe to assume that RG3 won't be getting nearly the rushing attempts in the NFL as he did in college, so is his rushing ability overated to a certain degree? As it relates specifically vs someone like Luck, whom he's often compared to, is there too much weight being put on RG3's rushing abilities?Anyone with a better handle on this care to chime in to alleviate or expand on this concern of mine?

Piggybacking a bit off the "running was a last resort for Griffin" sentiment:I also note that his YPC decreases the longer he was at Baylor and, presumably, the longer he had to learn the offensive system. Not saying this is necessarily the case, but perhaps as he learned the offense there were fewer times that he would take off to run? Also, I think it isn't terrible useful to just compare raw running stats of one college QB versus another, as that assumes their offensive schemes and what was asked of them was the same for both.

 

[mcintyre1]

he's a passing QB, first and foremost. His speed and elusiveness is an added bonus.

That's exactly my concern, especially as it relates in comparison to Luck, whom I consider a much better passing QB. Wouldn't you expect better rushing numbers from a QB with RG3's world class speed? I'm not entirely convinced on the elusiveness part, as he looks just a tad bit stiff when running with the ball IMO. But that's what I'm looking for feedback on.

Why? I could understand thinking that Luck, being perhaps the GOAT prospect, has a passing edge over any other prospect ever including RGIII. However, "much" better seems like a stretch. What exactly doesn't impress you about RGIII's passing numbers?291/402(72.4%) for 4293 yards, 37 TDs, 6 INTs, 10.7 Y/A, 11.8 AY/A

Heres Luck's numbers for comparison:

288/404(71.3%) for 3517 yards, 37 TDs, 10 INTs, 8.7 Y/A, 9.4 AY/A

See my last post Assani. I think that everyone is assuming that RG3 is going to have a pretty flawless transition to the pro game. While I think he'll do just fine, I think he struggles a bit more than most anticipate making the transition. That said, Luck vs RG3's passing upside isn't what I'm torn on so I feel that's a bit off track in terms of what I'd like this discussion to be centered around. Why does RG3's rushing production not mirror his insane athleticism nor come close to being on par with other elite college scrambling QB's of the past?

Take this for the off-season fluff talk it is, but this was recently said about Griffin following the rookie/fa minicamp:

Fellow rookies and second-year pros said Sunday that Griffin spat out wordy play calls and set up teammates in formations as if he were already well accustomed to doing so.



“They’re throwing it right at him, but he’s picking it up nicely and every day his timing is getting better and he was making throws on time,” second-year pro Aldrick Robinson said.



Shanahan said that in the three days of practice, the quarterback never got a formation or play call wrong. “I’ve never had that in all the minicamps I’ve been involved with,” said the coach, now in his 28th year in the NFL.

 

[MAC_32]

Can't fairly compare rushing #'s of RG3 vs. guys like Vick, Newton, Young, etc. Those guys ran different attacks that had less true drop backs than RG3. In college, unlike the NFL, the QB gets credit for negative yardage on sacks so QB's in offenses with less true drop backs get an inflated YPC, relatively speaking anyway.

 

[SayWhat?]

he's a passing QB, first and foremost. His speed and elusiveness is an added bonus.

That's exactly my concern, especially as it relates in comparison to Luck, whom I consider a much better passing QB. Wouldn't you expect better rushing numbers from a QB with RG3's world class speed? I'm not entirely convinced on the elusiveness part, as he looks just a tad bit stiff when running with the ball IMO. But that's what I'm looking for feedback on.

Why? I could understand thinking that Luck, being perhaps the GOAT prospect, has a passing edge over any other prospect ever including RGIII. However, "much" better seems like a stretch. What exactly doesn't impress you about RGIII's passing numbers?291/402(72.4%) for 4293 yards, 37 TDs, 6 INTs, 10.7 Y/A, 11.8 AY/A

Heres Luck's numbers for comparison:

288/404(71.3%) for 3517 yards, 37 TDs, 10 INTs, 8.7 Y/A, 9.4 AY/A

See my last post Assani. I think that everyone is assuming that RG3 is going to have a pretty flawless transition to the pro game. While I think he'll do just fine, I think he struggles a bit more than most anticipate making the transition. That said, Luck vs RG3's passing upside isn't what I'm torn on so I feel that's a bit off track in terms of what I'd like this discussion to be centered around. Why does RG3's rushing production not mirror his insane athleticism nor come close to being on par with other elite college scrambling QB's of the past?

Take this for the off-season fluff talk it is, but this was recently said about Griffin following the rookie/fa minicamp:

Fellow rookies and second-year pros said Sunday that Griffin spat out wordy play calls and set up teammates in formations as if he were already well accustomed to doing so.



“They’re throwing it right at him, but he’s picking it up nicely and every day his timing is getting better and he was making throws on time,” second-year pro Aldrick Robinson said.



Shanahan said that in the three days of practice, the quarterback never got a formation or play call wrong. “I’ve never had that in all the minicamps I’ve been involved with,” said the coach, now in his 28th year in the NFL.

Thanks for posting that. While that's certainly encouraging, setting the right formation or calling the right play does not equal dropping back from under center, making the correct reads, and executing a pass play. There's no real question that RG3 has the mental makeup to succeed, and I think people are wrongfully getting the idea that I don't love his passing abilities. Because in that arena I don't think he's quite on the level that Luck is, I'm simply wondering if people are placing too much emphasis on what he'll bring as a runner. It certainly won't be near what Cam brings to the table as a GL option. If it's closer to Vick than it is to say Aaron Rodgers, then I think RG3 is the pick over Luck in rookie drafts. If his rushing is closer to Rodgers than Vick (this is where I'm leaning), then I think that Luck is likely the pick because I think that Luck himself can put up Rodgers-type rushing stats.

 

[SayWhat?]

Can't fairly compare rushing #'s of RG3 vs. guys like Vick, Newton, Young, etc. Those guys ran different attacks that had less true drop backs than RG3. In college, unlike the NFL, the QB gets credit for negative yardage on sacks so QB's in offenses with less true drop backs get an inflated YPC, relatively speaking anyway.

Agreed, and that's what I figured part of the cause was. Does anyone know a way to remove the "rushes" and negative yards which were the result of sacks from RG3's college rushing numbers?

 

[johnadams]

Can't fairly compare rushing #'s of RG3 vs. guys like Vick, Newton, Young, etc. Those guys ran different attacks that had less true drop backs than RG3. In college, unlike the NFL, the QB gets credit for negative yardage on sacks so QB's in offenses with less true drop backs get an inflated YPC, relatively speaking anyway.

How about Kaepernick? Kaep had 359 pass attempts in his final year vs. RGIIIs 402. RGIII had 179 rushes for 3.9 yards per attempt vs Kaep's 173 carries for 7.0. I know the offenses are very different in structure, but Kaep's pass/run ratio is a bit more in line.

 

[metoo]

he's a passing QB, first and foremost. His speed and elusiveness is an added bonus.

That's exactly my concern, especially as it relates in comparison to Luck, whom I consider a much better passing QB. Wouldn't you expect better rushing numbers from a QB with RG3's world class speed? I'm not entirely convinced on the elusiveness part, as he looks just a tad bit stiff when running with the ball IMO. But that's what I'm looking for feedback on.

Why do you feel this way? Luck has the advantage of having learned in the pro system but their passing numbers in college were very comparable and Griffin has the stronger arm and quicker release.

That's exactly the reason why. Luck looks like a natural. Griffin put up eye popping stats in a spread offense and makes plenty of wow plays, but he doesn't look quite as natural when dropping back from under center, which was not very often.

The NFL game is becoming more of a spread system nowadays with all the 4 and even 5 WR sets. NFL teams operate out of the shotgun more than ever now a days. I do agree that Luck has the advantage coming in but I don't think it's fair to penalize Griffin because of the system he played in college. It's not like he dinked and dunked his way to great passing stats...he threw the ball downfield and did so very effectively.

I'm so tired of hearing pro system. What percentage of games are the top QBs in the shotgun? I know Brady is over 50%.

 

[duaneok66]

I just skimmed the thread - obviously RG3 doesn't have Vick's elusiveness, but still Griffin isn't chopped liver o the ground. No one has commented on some of the runs that Griffin gets - in the 2-3 games I watched, Griffin got more than a few called runs straight up the gut. I really wouldn't worry about a guy with Olympic speed getting decent numbers on the ground.

 

[Touchdown There]

I'm so tired of hearing pro system. What percentage of games are the top QBs in the shotgun? I know Brady is over 50%.

I am tired of hearing it too. The Redskins have already commented on how they are going to bootleg and tailor the offense to RG3's strengths. He is not going to be forced to be a QB he is not. He is the new franchise QB and they are tailoring around him with flexibility.