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I guess it doesn't hurt to ask. Personally I think a 3-week suspension where he would have less than a week to prepare for the Ravens would be a tougher punishment than a 4-game suspension where he would have 2 weeks to get ready for the Browns.Regardless of how you feel about the situation it could have a big impact on FF since owners would be getting him back in week 4 verses week 6 or later.
I agree. I was looking at it from a "get the crap knocked out of ya" standpoint.I'm sure Pitt doesn't share your view. Ben has 2 SB rings and is a seasoned vet at this point. It's not like he hasn't played all year, he has participated in camp and preseason...he'll be fine for the Ravens week 4 if Goodell shortens the suspension. The idea that the punishment would be worse with a 3 game suspension vs a 4 game suspension is proposterous
For the record I think Goodell reduces the suspension to 4 games but as I said it doesn't hurt to ask.
I won't. He's not watching my kids, he's playing football. I wonder if you'll still feel the same after watching Leftwich take his 22nd sack in 3 games or watching Dixon throw his 7th interception.Happy Ragnarok said:
That makes sense, but I was trying to figure out why they went public with it. Does it make Goodell look like he took a hard line by reducing to four but still appear to be sticking to his guns by not going to three?He said it was six with a chance at four all along, not sure what asking for three publicly does in this situation.Mystery Achiever said:
The dropoff from Roethlisberger to Leftwich/Dixon/Batch is huge. A 2-4 start is likely if the 6-game suspension holds. Tough to call yourself a Steelers fan if you would enjoy that.
Is it possible that Goodell wanted them to do this? "Hey, I'll drop it to four, but ask for three." Not unheard of. Also, they may not have gone public with it, it could have been discussed internally and then leaked. God knows you can't keep anything quiet these days.
Sure I will.I was really disappointed the Steelers didn't walk the talk and cut or trade him. I get that it's business, and I get that it's better for the team's chances. I even get that they've given professional shelter to guys who have been up on domestic violence charges in the past. I just see the crimes as significantly different in degree, and I'd personally rather be proud of my team than see them win. They've handed me both so often that they have some disappointing seasons W/L wise coming to them, as far as I'm concerned.I'm not exactly giving up on the team or anything, but I'm not going to any games this year.
If they win, I guess I'll be glad. If they lose, I'll be okay. If a big hard pipe hittin' good ol' boy from Georgia goes Gillooly on him in an alley, I won't exactly say he didn't deserve that, either. Still a Steeler fan, no longer a Roethlisberger fan. It's hard to reconcile, and I'll have to see how I feel during the season, I guess.
The thing is, it was investigated and determined no crime was committed. If he was convicted, or even arrested for rape, I might agree with you. However, at this point, the evidence points to nothing more than his being a cocky athlete with a hunger for booze and young chicks and a sense of entitlement. May not be in keeping with the Steeler image, but I certainly don't look to athletes as role models these days, nor do I expect them to inhabit some nebulous moral high ground that society has mapped out. They're people - some do good things, some make mistakes, some do both. I don't have to be Roethlisberger's buddy, but I will pull for him to win games for my team.
You can hold yourself to your own standards of fandom, I'll hold myself to mine. :( I like my Steelers to perpetrate violence onto Kyle Orton on the field, not onto college girls against their wills in public bathrooms, with bodyguards keeping away the cavalry.
Apples and oranges.Jolly was arrested for possession of 200 grams of codeine, a second-degree felony and is awaiting trial. Roethlisberger was never arrested nor charged with any crime. Had he been charged with sexual assualt then I am sure he would have also been suspended until after trial.Sabertooth said:
fdctrumpet said:
This is what I came in here to say. Ask for a 3, then when Goodell gives him a 4 it makes Goodell look like a hard guy but in the end Big Ben really got what he wanted, which is the least amount of suspension he could get when given his sentence initially.
That's an interesting take. It does give the media some extra fluff to cover, too, which diverts attention away from focusing on how crappy the last round of preseason games will be tonight.
You have the right to believe whatever you want. I have read the evidence collected by the DA and it is not clear to me which side, if either, gave an accurate or credible account of what happened that night. I really don't know.The one thing I am sure about is that I would not enjoy the Steelers losing 4 out of their first 6 games.You can hold yourself to your own standards of fandom, I'll hold myself to mine.I like my Steelers to perpetrate violence onto Kyle Orton on the field, not onto college girls against their wills in public bathrooms, with bodyguards keeping away the cavalry.
The Steelers know who they play Week 4. They'd love to bring him back for the Ravens game, that's for sure. I don't think it would be viewed by the Ravens as a fair decision. That would be like if Tony Romo was suspended for 4 to 6 games and then the Cowboys played the Redskins Week 4 so the NFL allowed Romo to come back and play in that game.I'd have a very hard time starting Big Ben anyway Week 4 against the Ravens anyway, I have him stashed away on a couple teams and look forward to inserting him in there Week 6 against the Browns.Godsbrother said:
From a FF perspective I agree that a week 4 return against the Ravens woudl not be a very good matchup. I guess it depends on what other options you have.Week 6 against the Browns at home, with 2 weeks to prepare, should be a pretty tasty matchup though.
While I agree with your point about the drop off, I find it odd that Batch (out of the three) is the odd man out. This is a plug and play offense (albiet Roth makes it a ton better), but if I were in the Steelers shoes, I would take the Dilfer-type game manager in Batch over the other two. He has a good running game, good TE and extremely good WRs...maybe the lack of O-line has them spooked that Batch will get killed back there. But they have been paying the guy for years, may as well take advantage when they need him most.
The problem with Batch is that he has been a china doll through most of his career -- he just gets hurt too easily. A case in point was last season's game against the Chiefs. Batch came in for one drive and injured his wrist which required surgery that put him on the IR.Still for what the Steelers need right now Batch probably was the best candidate for however long he would have lasted. He was never given a shot and now may be cut. I don't understand it but that is where we're at.
Problem is if they carry three QB's during BR's suspension they have to cut a promising young talent or a valuable back-up to do it.I think they go with Leftwich and Dixon and let Randle EL/Ward serve as the emergency QB in weeks 1-4 (or 3 or 2...)While I agree with your point about the drop off, I find it odd that Batch (out of the three) is the odd man out. This is a plug and play offense (albiet Roth makes it a ton better), but if I were in the Steelers shoes, I would take the Dilfer-type game manager in Batch over the other two. He has a good running game, good TE and extremely good WRs...maybe the lack of O-line has them spooked that Batch will get killed back there. But they have been paying the guy for years, may as well take advantage when they need him most.The dropoff from Roethlisberger to Leftwich/Dixon/Batch is huge. A 2-4 start is likely if the 6-game suspension holds. Tough to call yourself a Steelers fan if you would enjoy that.
One reason I don't think Goodell will reduce it to 3 games. The other reason is the appearance of "I was tough, I didn't reduce it to 3 games."
really enforce the can't be at the facility / practice thing for the time he misses. Is there a guy sending Roethlisberger detailed game plan stuff each week? Is he getting every snap the QBs take on video delivered to him every day?
With social media what it is these days, I doubt the Steelers would take the chance of allowing him to hang around. One tweet that he's on the premises, and the franchise is in deep doo-doo.Tangent thought - I've always wondered how much they
If the league had not offered the possibility of reduction, I doubt he'd be asking for it.
the prosecutor made it pretty clear he thought from the investigation it was more than this, just that nothing more could be proven in a court of lawi respect both your feelings and ragnorak's on thisThe thing is, it was investigated and determined no crime was committed. If he was convicted, or even arrested for rape, I might agree with you. However, at this point, the evidence points to nothing more than his being a cocky athlete with a hunger for booze and young chicks and a sense of entitlement. May not be in keeping with the Steeler image, but I certainly don't look to athletes as role models these days, nor do I expect them to inhabit some nebulous moral high ground that society has mapped out. They're people - some do good things, some make mistakes, some do both. I don't have to be Roethlisberger's buddy, but I will pull for him to win games for my team.Sure I will.I was really disappointed the Steelers didn't walk the talk and cut or trade him. I get that it's business, and I get that it's better for the team's chances. I even get that they've given professional shelter to guys who have been up on domestic violence charges in the past. I just see the crimes as significantly different in degree, and I'd personally rather be proud of my team than see them win. They've handed me both so often that they have some disappointing seasons W/L wise coming to them, as far as I'm concerned.I'm not exactly giving up on the team or anything, but I'm not going to any games this year.If they win, I guess I'll be glad. If they lose, I'll be okay. If a big hard pipe hittin' good ol' boy from Georgia goes Gillooly on him in an alley, I won't exactly say he didn't deserve that, either. Still a Steeler fan, no longer a Roethlisberger fan. It's hard to reconcile, and I'll have to see how I feel during the season, I guess.
Yeah, I doubt he'd risk being there. But you think it'd be pretty easy to load him up every day with material and video from practice and be talking to him. Not sure how much of that is allowed (if any)JWith social media what it is these days, I doubt the Steelers would take the chance of allowing him to hang around. One tweet that he's on the premises, and the franchise is in deep doo-doo.Tangent thought - I've always wondered how much they
I think what the poster is saying is that the league offered to reduce it to 4 and Roethlisberger and Rooney are now asking for 3.J
There is a difference between challenging it and asking for a reduction. I don't see any harm in asking but I do question the wisdom in making this known to the media prior to the meeting. Most likely this will have no effect on Goodell's decision but I could see where there might be concern that if it is reduced to less than 4 games then the league is caving into the player. There is even the possibility of Goodell getting pissed and standing by the original 6-game suspension.In the end I will be surprised if Roethlisberger doesn't end up with the 4-game suspension we have all been expecting.
The real question is what Rooney and Gooddell worked out from the beginning as I think Rooney was instrumental in deciding the way this would be handled.The number of games has been subject to change both up and down since the inception.It was never 6 possibly reduced to 4. It has been 6 with the commish's discretion to increase/decrease as he saw fit.I too will be surprised if he serves less than 4 games, but it's not as if they are asking for something that hasn't at least been tabled by going for 3 (or less).
Listening to Mike & Mike this morning, I don't think the bolded part is correct. To paraphrase them, it was a 6 game suspension that could be reduced to 4 if Ben met all of the criteria of good behavior. There was no mention of further reduction or an increase (unless of course there were other infractions). M&M seemed to think asking for less was kinda in poor taste.
An interesting sidenote is that former teammate Santonio Holmes will be permitted to workout at the Jets team facilities and even attend team meetings during his 4-game suspension because his suspension is for violating the league’s drug policy. Players serving less than a year's suspension for drug violations are permitted contact with their teamHowever players who violate the steroid policy or the personal conduct policy such as Roethlisberger aren't allowed to go to the team facility or have contact with the team during their suspensions.Yeah, I doubt he'd risk being there. But you think it'd be pretty easy to load him up every day with material and video from practice and be talking to him. Not sure how much of that is allowed (if any)JWith social media what it is these days, I doubt the Steelers would take the chance of allowing him to hang around. One tweet that he's on the premises, and the franchise is in deep doo-doo.Tangent thought - I've always wondered how much theyreally
That is where I was wondering if Ben is going back on his word asking for three. I thought all along it was either going to be 6 or 4 for good behavior, more if he got into more trouble.
i really feel for the Pittsburgh fans like you.it's going to be really weird this season. good luck.also i wouldn't be shocked to see Ben get injured on the field this year, in a play that may be subject to fine and/or suspension.
Not sure about Ben going back on his word, but immediately following the suspension Art Rooney had this to say:Steelers president Art Rooney II said Wednesday, "I agree and support the decision the commissioner made today."That is where I was wondering if Ben is going back on his word asking for three. I thought all along it was either going to be 6 or 4 for good behavior, more if he got into more trouble.
That to me is going back on their words.Team president Arthur Rooney II will also join Roethlisberger for the meeting (to request at least a 3 game reduction).That is where I was wondering if Ben is going back on his word asking for three. I thought all along it was either going to be 6 or 4 for good behavior, more if he got into more trouble.
I do agree with this distinction though. The last thing a guy needs that has a recreational drug problem is to be isolated from his (positive) support group. That feels different from a performance enhancing drug guy.I think you can make the case though that a guy struggling with the issues Roethlesberger has should also have the positive support. And you can make the case that all suspensions should be the same in that light.JAn interesting sidenote is that former teammate Santonio Holmes will be permitted to workout at the Jets team facilities and even attend team meetings during his 4-game suspension because his suspension is for violating the league’s drug policy. Players serving less than a year's suspension for drug violations are permitted contact with their teamHowever players who violate the steroid policy or the personal conduct policy such as Roethlisberger aren't allowed to go to the team facility or have contact with the team during their suspensions.Yeah, I doubt he'd risk being there. But you think it'd be pretty easy to load him up every day with material and video from practice and be talking to him. Not sure how much of that is allowed (if any)JWith social media what it is these days, I doubt the Steelers would take the chance of allowing him to hang around. One tweet that he's on the premises, and the franchise is in deep doo-doo.Tangent thought - I've always wondered how much theyenforce the can't be at the facility / practice thing for the time he misses. Is there a guy sending Roethlisberger detailed game plan stuff each week? Is he getting every snap the QBs take on video delivered to him every day? Missing the practice and not having contact is a big deal. I wonder how much that's really enforced.J
Does anyone have the actual quote by Goodell annoucing the original suspension? I know that the original suspension was for 6 games but does anyone have a link that shows Goodell stating it could only be reduced to 4 games?That to me is going back on their words.Team president Arthur Rooney II will also join Roethlisberger for the meeting (to request at least a 3 game reduction).
