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Ryan Braun wins Appeal! (1 Viewer)

Doesn't matter. There is no way he doped last year, and he had a career year. Just shows that a lot of these guys that did use didn't need to. Palmiero and Bonds were definitely in that category.

 
'Abraham said:
'Tom Servo said:
'KingPrawn said:
According to Braun, his attorneys used Bosh as a consultant during his appeal.

Points in Braun's favor:

Other players have the substance listed after their name, Braun does not.

Why would Braun's attorney's name also appear on the list? Was he also a user?
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So why is his name in the book?
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They were consulting with him! They owed him money! (Nevermind that they didn't disclose this to MLB during the appeal. Don't you think it would have been wise to say, "We are consulting with someone who is probably on the other side of the line on PEDs. We are using him for his technical knowledge and nothing more.")
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They didn't? :link:

 
'CletiusMaximus said:
'Abraham said:
'Tom Servo said:
'KingPrawn said:
According to Braun, his attorneys used Bosh as a consultant during his appeal.Points in Braun's favor:Other players have the substance listed after their name, Braun does not.Why would Braun's attorney's name also appear on the list? Was he also a user?
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So why is his name in the book?
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They were consulting with him! They owed him money! (Nevermind that they didn't disclose this to MLB during the appeal. Don't you think it would have been wise to say, "We are consulting with someone who is probably on the other side of the line on PEDs. We are using him for his technical knowledge and nothing more.")
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Do we know what was disclosed in the appeal? I would be interested to see the written submissions but did not think they would be available. I've never even seen the written decision or ruling from the arbitrator from the suspension case last year.
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I have no idea what was disclosed in the appeal. But wouldn't MLB come out quickly to support one its star players ? Maybe not, but you have to admit it does smell bad.
 
'Abraham said:
'CletiusMaximus said:
'Abraham said:
'Tom Servo said:
'KingPrawn said:
According to Braun, his attorneys used Bosh as a consultant during his appeal.

Points in Braun's favor:

Other players have the substance listed after their name, Braun does not.

Why would Braun's attorney's name also appear on the list? Was he also a user?
Click to expand...
So why is his name in the book?
Click to expand...
They were consulting with him! They owed him money! (Nevermind that they didn't disclose this to MLB during the appeal. Don't you think it would have been wise to say, "We are consulting with someone who is probably on the other side of the line on PEDs. We are using him for his technical knowledge and nothing more.")
Click to expand...
Do we know what was disclosed in the appeal? I would be interested to see the written submissions but did not think they would be available. I've never even seen the written decision or ruling from the arbitrator from the suspension case last year.
Click to expand...
I have no idea what was disclosed in the appeal. But wouldn't MLB come out quickly to support one its star players ? Maybe not, but you have to admit it does smell bad.
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No.According to Ken Rosenthal last night, MLB is still pissed that he won last year, they think they did nothing wrong and were 100% correct. They will go after him with everything they can to prove themselves right.

 
I am going to add that if he is found to be 100% guilty, then throw the book at him.Until then, I'll reserve judgement

 
'GroveDiesel said:
What possible reason would they have for using him as a consultant?
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It seems obvious that if one were defending against a claim of ped use, with huge stakes at risk, he'd want to retain as many consultants as needed. Braun himself and his lawyer would be unlikely to understand the technical aspects of defending such a claim, so it would make sense to retain one or more experts.
 
'CletiusMaximus said:
'GroveDiesel said:
What possible reason would they have for using him as a consultant?
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It seems obvious that if one were defending against a claim of ped use, with huge stakes at risk, he'd want to retain as many consultants as needed. Braun himself and his lawyer would be unlikely to understand the technical aspects of defending such a claim, so it would make sense to retain one or more experts.
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I don't see how hiring a guy whose sole expertise is on avoiding positive drug tests helps a guy who tested positive but is innocent does any good. I imagine there are a TON more credible experts that know and understand that stuff. Bringing in a crook as an expert is a terrible idea if for no other reason than that info could get out and link the player to that disreputable individual. Which is exactly what happened.
 
'Abraham said:
Yes he did. And he successfully argued the sample might have been tainted so it was overturned.
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So, Positive Test + Tainted Sample = Not Positive (inconclusive, maybe?). Seems about right.
 
'Abraham said:
'MaxThreshold said:
'Abraham said:
Yes he did. And he successfully argued the sample might have been tainted so it was overturned.
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So, Positive Test + Tainted Sample = Not Positive (inconclusive, maybe?). Seems about right.
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Just saying he never challenged the test result, just the chain of custody iirc.
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Correct.It was overturned based on the person taking the sample not following proper protocol. He brought the sample home with him before delivering it to a Fed Ex shipping facility. That's it and that's all.
 
'GroveDiesel said:
'CletiusMaximus said:
'GroveDiesel said:
What possible reason would they have for using him as a consultant?
Click to expand...
It seems obvious that if one were defending against a claim of ped use, with huge stakes at risk, he'd want to retain as many consultants as needed. Braun himself and his lawyer would be unlikely to understand the technical aspects of defending such a claim, so it would make sense to retain one or more experts.
Click to expand...
I don't see how hiring a guy whose sole expertise is on avoiding positive drug tests helps a guy who tested positive but is innocent does any good. I imagine there are a TON more credible experts that know and understand that stuff. Bringing in a crook as an expert is a terrible idea if for no other reason than that info could get out and link the player to that disreputable individual. Which is exactly what happened.
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I don't know who this guy is or what he did for Braun - just answering your question as to why Braun would want to hire experts in defending this claim. It seems to me his strategy was a good one, as I believe he is one of very few MLB athletes to win one of these appeals. If this guy's expertise is in avoiding positive drug tests as you say, I would think he would be a valuable consultant to have on your team if accused of failing a drug test.
 
'Abraham said:
'MaxThreshold said:
'Abraham said:
Yes he did. And he successfully argued the sample might have been tainted so it was overturned.
Click to expand...
So, Positive Test + Tainted Sample = Not Positive (inconclusive, maybe?). Seems about right.
Click to expand...
Just saying he never challenged the test result, just the chain of custody iirc.
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How do you know he never challenged the test result? FWIW, I am almost 100% certain Braun took the banned substance and should be suspended under MLB rules, but I still am continually confused by the level of knowledge or access to facts the internet posting crowd seems to have. I have not followed this real closely, but would love to see copies of what his actual position was in the appeal, what the MLB said and argued, and read the arbitrator's ruling. Based on my 20 years of experience in the legal profession, I have absolutely no faith in the ability of the media to accurately report relevant facts, especially the sports media, and especially when the reporting is based entirely on unconfirmed sources, leaks, etc.
 
I guess my thing is this: I don't particularly care who cheats. Bonds is my favorite player of all time. Always will be. I know he cheated and I don't care. It amazes me that we turn our heads to the nfl where these guys are xlearly cheating. I'm fine with it. What bothers me is the technical bull####. Own it. Te conversation about ped won't change until Braun or a rod or whoever says "yeah, I cheated. Do you have any idea how much money x million dollars is?" Otherwise we will keep skirting it and acting like the guys mentioned have a scarlet letter when they are ALL doing it.

 
I think it is rather apparent that neither the players union, the league or the fans in any of our major professional sports want to have meaningful drug testing.

 
'CletiusMaximus said:
I think it is rather apparent that neither the players union, the league or the fans in any of our major professional sports want to have meaningful drug testing.
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That's why the bbwa pisses me off. They has no trouble celebrating the summer of 98 for profit but when it come time for a hof vote they suddenly have ethics? Get over yourselves. I think the three major sports should quit acting like they care. Like the herpes pictures you see in 8th grade, let the players know what is at stake and let it go. You want to get paid? Cool, do it. But you are going to die early from it just like you were a cigarette smoker for all these years. Make your way, killer.
 
'cheese said:
'Limp Ditka said:
'Mr.Pack said:
'Mr.Pack said:
:lmao: Haters gonna hate.
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And :homer: gonna :homer:
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When people have their head buried in the sand in denial, no amount of evidence matters. They could come out with a 30 minute video tomorrow of him taking steroids and we'd get 10 FBGs from Wisconsin posting rolling smilies.
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And we could have the positive results overturned and we'd get 100 FBGs posting :cheater:Difference between your example and mine?One actually happened.
 
'Abraham said:
Yes he did. And he successfully argued the sample might have been tainted so it was overturned.
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The test returns a number 1 to 10 with anything over an 8 as failing. His test result returned a Q.
 
'Mario Kart said:
'Abraham said:
Why is it so hard to accept that he is a cheater?
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Why is it so easy?
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He failed a drug test. The sample was brought to the driver's house first then to the lab. The results aren't being contested, just the handling. Are you thinking that the Fed Ex driver was on steroids and HE peed into the cup? Now his name pops up on yet another list of cheaters, yet you still want to defend this guy.
 
'Mr. Pickles said:
'Limp Ditka said:
'Mr.Pack said:
'Mr.Pack said:
:lmao: Haters gonna hate.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
And :homer: gonna :homer:
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Yeah, pretty sure if this is Carlos Gonzalez under scrutiny, Mr. Pack is silent.
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Pretty sure you are wrong mr. "I need to get in everyone's business"I had always thought Bonds, McGuire etc always deserved the benefit of the doubt until they were proven guilty. Same with Arod, Cabrera and everyone else just listed on a sheet of paper written in pencil.But go ahead, you love to be the judge and jury, just like everyone else in here.Whatever makes you feel good about yourself
 
'Mr.Pack said:
'Mr. Pickles said:
'Limp Ditka said:
'Mr.Pack said:
'Mr.Pack said:
:lmao: Haters gonna hate.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
And :homer: gonna :homer:
Click to expand...
Yeah, pretty sure if this is Carlos Gonzalez under scrutiny, Mr. Pack is silent.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure you are wrong mr. "I need to get in everyone's business"I had always thought Bonds, McGuire etc always deserved the benefit of the doubt until they were proven guilty. Same with Arod, Cabrera and everyone else just listed on a sheet of paper written in pencil.But go ahead, you love to be the judge and jury, just like everyone else in here.Whatever makes you feel good about yourself
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I'm right and you know it.
 
I realize that claiming Bosch was used as a consultant is Braun's best defense given the circumstances. But Bosch is not a medical expert and certainly not an MD. He is an expert in cheating and PED usage. Not sure why you would want someone with that reputation as a consultant against a positive drug test.And :lmao: at "Braun advantage"

 
'Mr.Pack said:
:lmao: Haters gonna hate.
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I love how the two Packer/Brewer fans jump to his defense. If this was about Sammy Sosa or Brian Urlacher or somebody not based in Cheeseland, you would be advocating for burning at the stake.
 
'Mr. Pickles said:
'Mr.Pack said:
'Mr. Pickles said:
'Limp Ditka said:
'Mr.Pack said:
'Mr.Pack said:
:lmao: Haters gonna hate.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
And :homer: gonna :homer:
Click to expand...
Yeah, pretty sure if this is Carlos Gonzalez under scrutiny, Mr. Pack is silent.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure you are wrong mr. "I need to get in everyone's business"I had always thought Bonds, McGuire etc always deserved the benefit of the doubt until they were proven guilty. Same with Arod, Cabrera and everyone else just listed on a sheet of paper written in pencil.But go ahead, you love to be the judge and jury, just like everyone else in here.Whatever makes you feel good about yourself
Click to expand...
I'm right and I know it.
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FYP
 
'Mr.Pack said:
'Abraham said:
Why is it so hard to accept that he is a cheater?
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Agreed.Why is it so difficult to accept he may be innocent?
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I think "innocent" is the wrong word choice. By all accounts, his sample was flagged as being non-compliant and tested positive for a banned substance. He was given a free pass because the way the sample was handled did not follow the agreed upon chain of custody as spelled out in the CBA. Therefore, he was allowed to skate . . . but to me that does not = innocent.Using a more generalized example, say someone got a ticket for going 120 mph and the ticket ultimately got thrown out because the radar detector had not been recalibrated and inspected in the timeframe listed by the manufacturer and accepted by an individual state. Would that person really be able to say they never drove 120 mph? Probably not. They might be found "not guilty," but I would not call them "innocent."And as others have mentioned, include me in the camp of not really caring one way or the other when it comes to Braun.
 
So when Braun was cleared to play last year, do people think, knowing the scrutiny/testing he would be under, that he doped during the 162 game schedule last year?I highly doubt it. So to me he didn't need PEDs. Compare that to Brady Anderson, who went from 7 homers, to 50, then back to squat. Different animal. Braun is likely a cheat, but in my opinion he can perform at an uber high level without them, so I'll hold him in a higher regard than those whose performance tanks when not juicing.

 
'Judge Smails said:
So when Braun was cleared to play last year, do people think, knowing the scrutiny/testing he would be under, that he doped during the 162 game schedule last year?I highly doubt it. So to me he didn't need PEDs. Compare that to Brady Anderson, who went from 7 homers, to 50, then back to squat. Different animal. Braun is likely a cheat, but in my opinion he can perform at an uber high level without them, so I'll hold him in a higher regard than those whose performance tanks when not juicing.
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Suppose he took things they don't test for or can only be detected with a blood sample and not a urinalysis?The labs and players generally are ahead of the curve and find things that won't test positive and/or you can take and not be detected way before the league catches up and bans it. I would say there is a greater than 0% change Braun took something this year that was not 100% legal.I don't want to come across as the conspiracy theory type, but how do we know what Braun would do without assistance? You are assuming his baseline non-PED level is what he's done in the past. Suppose he's been juicing all along and somehow managed to not get caught? Maybe his baseline is 7 homers without the special sauce. We just don't know.
 
'Judge Smails said:
So when Braun was cleared to play last year, do people think, knowing the scrutiny/testing he would be under, that he doped during the 162 game schedule last year?I highly doubt it. So to me he didn't need PEDs. Compare that to Brady Anderson, who went from 7 homers, to 50, then back to squat. Different animal. Braun is likely a cheat, but in my opinion he can perform at an uber high level without them, so I'll hold him in a higher regard than those whose performance tanks when not juicing.
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No one has gone through more vigorous testing then Armstrong and it never deterred him from stopping. Imagine the testing Braun endures is a joke in comparison.
 
'Judge Smails said:
So when Braun was cleared to play last year, do people think, knowing the scrutiny/testing he would be under, that he doped during the 162 game schedule last year?I highly doubt it. So to me he didn't need PEDs. Compare that to Brady Anderson, who went from 7 homers, to 50, then back to squat. Different animal. Braun is likely a cheat, but in my opinion he can perform at an uber high level without them, so I'll hold him in a higher regard than those whose performance tanks when not juicing.
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Why is it plausible for arod and manny to due do roids multiple times but not braun?
 
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