Seinfeld actor's botched suicide attempt (1 Viewer)

[Shrugs]

This is why assisted suicide should be accepted and encouraged. Wouldn't it be nice to let people go out on their own terms, at a nice facility, family and friends there to celebrate their life in a sort of living wake, a good meal, glass of wine, comfy bed, favorite music, peaceful images and then you go painlessly. Like in Soylent Green, except we won't turn them into food. Would save a lot on health care too.

Encouraged how? I'm not saying that I am against assisted suicide, but Von Bargen- while facing the unenviable loss of more digits to diabetes- seemed more like he was depressed over those prospects than he was a hospice patient. Is assisted suicide something you want to make available to those struggling with depression who just might find help with the proper medication?

People shouldn't be looked down upon for doing it. Perhaps encouraged isn't the right word. But it should be looked at as a noble option. Going out on your own terms. Going out in a better way. This isn't a Kevorkian, fly-by-night thing. People who come to the nice facility won't just be put down. They will receive counseling and analysis. If they still want to go, it will be scheduled. They will have time to change their minds.

 

[Warrior]

This is why assisted suicide should be accepted and encouraged. Wouldn't it be nice to let people go out on their own terms, at a nice facility, family and friends there to celebrate their life in a sort of living wake, a good meal, glass of wine, comfy bed, favorite music, peaceful images and then you go painlessly. Like in Soylent Green, except we won't turn them into food. Would save a lot on health care too.

Encouraged how? I'm not saying that I am against assisted suicide, but Von Bargen- while facing the unenviable loss of more digits to diabetes- seemed more like he was depressed over those prospects than he was a hospice patient. Is assisted suicide something you want to make available to those struggling with depression who just might find help with the proper medication?

People shouldn't be looked down upon for doing it. Perhaps encouraged isn't the right word. But it should be looked at as a noble option. Going out on your own terms. Going out in a better way. This isn't a Kevorkian, fly-by-night thing. People who come to the nice facility won't just be put down. They will receive counseling and analysis. If they still want to go, it will be scheduled. They will have time to change their minds.

You say "going out on your own terms", some might say "giving up".Try losing a depressed loved one to assisted suicide when you didn't even know they were contemplating it...then see if you feel just peachy about it.This is of course all hypothetical, but I can see the other side of the argument.

 

[Christo]

This is why assisted suicide should be accepted and encouraged. Wouldn't it be nice to let people go out on their own terms, at a nice facility, family and friends there to celebrate their life in a sort of living wake, a good meal, glass of wine, comfy bed, favorite music, peaceful images and then you go painlessly. Like in Soylent Green, except we won't turn them into food. Would save a lot on health care too.

Encouraged how? I'm not saying that I am against assisted suicide, but Von Bargen- while facing the unenviable loss of more digits to diabetes- seemed more like he was depressed over those prospects than he was a hospice patient. Is assisted suicide something you want to make available to those struggling with depression who just might find help with the proper medication?

People shouldn't be looked down upon for doing it. Perhaps encouraged isn't the right word. But it should be looked at as a noble option. Going out on your own terms. Going out in a better way. This isn't a Kevorkian, fly-by-night thing. People who come to the nice facility won't just be put down. They will receive counseling and analysis. If they still want to go, it will be scheduled. They will have time to change their minds.

You say "going out on your own terms", some might say "giving up".Try losing a depressed loved one to assisted suicide when you didn't even know they were contemplating it...then see if you feel just peachy about it.This is of course all hypothetical, but I can see the other side of the argument.

Sure, but with the laws the way they are, only the "giving up" side is represented. Maybe if people knew there was an option to legally end their lives it would allow them to discuss their problems (whether mental or physical) and get input from their loved ones and doctors instead of having to live in fear with the knowledge that those who are in a position to help them risk legal repercussions if they assist.

 

[Balco]

This is why assisted suicide should be accepted and encouraged. Wouldn't it be nice to let people go out on their own terms, at a nice facility, family and friends there to celebrate their life in a sort of living wake, a good meal, glass of wine, comfy bed, favorite music, peaceful images and then you go painlessly. Like in Soylent Green, except we won't turn them into food. Would save a lot on health care too.

Encouraged how? I'm not saying that I am against assisted suicide, but Von Bargen- while facing the unenviable loss of more digits to diabetes- seemed more like he was depressed over those prospects than he was a hospice patient. Is assisted suicide something you want to make available to those struggling with depression who just might find help with the proper medication?

People shouldn't be looked down upon for doing it. Perhaps encouraged isn't the right word. But it should be looked at as a noble option. Going out on your own terms. Going out in a better way. This isn't a Kevorkian, fly-by-night thing. People who come to the nice facility won't just be put down. They will receive counseling and analysis. If they still want to go, it will be scheduled. They will have time to change their minds.

You say "going out on your own terms", some might say "giving up".Try losing a depressed loved one to assisted suicide when you didn't even know they were contemplating it...then see if you feel just peachy about it.This is of course all hypothetical, but I can see the other side of the argument.

Sure, but with the laws the way they are, only the "giving up" side is represented. Maybe if people knew there was an option to legally end their lives it would allow them to discuss their problems (whether mental or physical) and get input from their loved ones and doctors instead of having to live in fear with the knowledge that those who are in a position to help them risk legal repercussions if they assist.

Looked at several assisted suicide statutes in law school. If I remember correctly, the party wishing to end it had to speak to a psychologist or other mental health professional.I am absolutely pro assisted suicide. It is a person's choice, it is their body. Allow them to go with a little dignity.

 

[Warrior]

This is why assisted suicide should be accepted and encouraged. Wouldn't it be nice to let people go out on their own terms, at a nice facility, family and friends there to celebrate their life in a sort of living wake, a good meal, glass of wine, comfy bed, favorite music, peaceful images and then you go painlessly. Like in Soylent Green, except we won't turn them into food. Would save a lot on health care too.

Encouraged how? I'm not saying that I am against assisted suicide, but Von Bargen- while facing the unenviable loss of more digits to diabetes- seemed more like he was depressed over those prospects than he was a hospice patient. Is assisted suicide something you want to make available to those struggling with depression who just might find help with the proper medication?

People shouldn't be looked down upon for doing it. Perhaps encouraged isn't the right word. But it should be looked at as a noble option. Going out on your own terms. Going out in a better way. This isn't a Kevorkian, fly-by-night thing. People who come to the nice facility won't just be put down. They will receive counseling and analysis. If they still want to go, it will be scheduled. They will have time to change their minds.

You say "going out on your own terms", some might say "giving up".Try losing a depressed loved one to assisted suicide when you didn't even know they were contemplating it...then see if you feel just peachy about it.This is of course all hypothetical, but I can see the other side of the argument.

Sure, but with the laws the way they are, only the "giving up" side is represented. Maybe if people knew there was an option to legally end their lives it would allow them to discuss their problems (whether mental or physical) and get input from their loved ones and doctors instead of having to live in fear with the knowledge that those who are in a position to help them risk legal repercussions if they assist.

Looked at several assisted suicide statutes in law school. If I remember correctly, the party wishing to end it had to speak to a psychologist or other mental health professional.I am absolutely pro assisted suicide. It is a person's choice, it is their body. Allow them to go with a little dignity.

I suppose if they do an evaluation beforehand and they can be 100% sure that the person is in a logical state of mind to be making this decision, I'm ok with it.

 

[mad sweeney]

I find it interesting that he decided to call 911 instead of pick up the gun and shoot again. Just saying. Did he REALLY want to die?

If you listen to the call, he said he couldn't see/open his eyes. He very calmly said he shot himself in the temple. Yes, he really did want to die. But he couldn't see anymore. Maybe he could have groped for the gun, who knows if he had anymore bullets left or was in any condition to load them. His tone was "aw ####, I screwed up. Someone help me". If given a chance to do it again, he no doubt would. Sad way to go.

It just seems to me that it's either easier, or AT LEAST as easy to pick up the gun you were just holding and pull the trigger again versus finding a phone, picking it up, and dialing 9-1-1 blind. I honestly don't think either one is that difficult. To your point, if he only had 1 bullet or only loaded one, that makes sense...but I'd question why he didn't just shoot himself again if he really wanted to die.

You think it's possible he didn't really want to die?

I do.There are botched suicide attempts all the time where the person was just too depressed to handle everything on their plate. There's a difference between not knowing how to handle the stresses that are bearing down on you and wanting to escape and actually wanting to end your time on earth and never seeing friends and family again.

It's also possible that he botched the attempt on purpose. Like he knew where to shoot so it wouldn't really kill him but do enough damage that he could get help in the area of his life that he really needed it.

Helluva risk. Gotta at least be prepared to die to try it like that.

 

[tjnc09]

Sad to listen to that call. Hope he's OK. Diabetes can be awful. Watched my grandmother end up losing both legs up to about the knees before she died. I can understand how that prospect would cause someone to become depressed enough to try to end it all.

I wouldn't be surprised if depression caused him to eat poorly resulting in diabetes.

 

[The Captain]

This is why assisted suicide should be accepted and encouraged. Wouldn't it be nice to let people go out on their own terms, at a nice facility, family and friends there to celebrate their life in a sort of living wake, a good meal, glass of wine, comfy bed, favorite music, peaceful images and then you go painlessly. Like in Soylent Green, except we won't turn them into food. Would save a lot on health care too.

Encouraged how? I'm not saying that I am against assisted suicide, but Von Bargen- while facing the unenviable loss of more digits to diabetes- seemed more like he was depressed over those prospects than he was a hospice patient. Is assisted suicide something you want to make available to those struggling with depression who just might find help with the proper medication?

People shouldn't be looked down upon for doing it. Perhaps encouraged isn't the right word. But it should be looked at as a noble option. Going out on your own terms. Going out in a better way. This isn't a Kevorkian, fly-by-night thing. People who come to the nice facility won't just be put down. They will receive counseling and analysis. If they still want to go, it will be scheduled. They will have time to change their minds.

You say "going out on your own terms", some might say "giving up".Try losing a depressed loved one to assisted suicide when you didn't even know they were contemplating it...then see if you feel just peachy about it.This is of course all hypothetical, but I can see the other side of the argument.

Sure, but with the laws the way they are, only the "giving up" side is represented. Maybe if people knew there was an option to legally end their lives it would allow them to discuss their problems (whether mental or physical) and get input from their loved ones and doctors instead of having to live in fear with the knowledge that those who are in a position to help them risk legal repercussions if they assist.

Looked at several assisted suicide statutes in law school. If I remember correctly, the party wishing to end it had to speak to a psychologist or other mental health professional.I am absolutely pro assisted suicide. It is a person's choice, it is their body. Allow them to go with a little dignity.

Couldn't agree more. It's my body. The last thIng I thIng I think I would have the strength to do is off myself, but I want the right to decide for myself. Offer counseling, the right to back out at anytime, the involvement of close family, if there are any left, and no ambulance chasers and give folks a chance to die with dignity. The last thIng I want is someone telling me I have to suffer and die a painful, undignified death because they're trying to protect my soul from eternal damnation or are afraid of being sued. And I'm a giant #### when it comes to death.

 

[Raider Nation]

'What a pear shaped loser'.

Proving once again that you're a bottom feeder.

That was a Kruger quote. It appears he was referring to you as you know nothing.

We need an airing of grievances in here.

 

[mr. furley]

Sad to listen to that call. Hope he's OK. Diabetes can be awful. Watched my grandmother end up losing both legs up to about the knees before she died. I can understand how that prospect would cause someone to become depressed enough to try to end it all.

I'm curious why you would even listen to the call. It's baffling to me that these are public record.

 

[Warrior]

This is why assisted suicide should be accepted and encouraged. Wouldn't it be nice to let people go out on their own terms, at a nice facility, family and friends there to celebrate their life in a sort of living wake, a good meal, glass of wine, comfy bed, favorite music, peaceful images and then you go painlessly. Like in Soylent Green, except we won't turn them into food. Would save a lot on health care too.

Encouraged how? I'm not saying that I am against assisted suicide, but Von Bargen- while facing the unenviable loss of more digits to diabetes- seemed more like he was depressed over those prospects than he was a hospice patient. Is assisted suicide something you want to make available to those struggling with depression who just might find help with the proper medication?

People shouldn't be looked down upon for doing it. Perhaps encouraged isn't the right word. But it should be looked at as a noble option. Going out on your own terms. Going out in a better way. This isn't a Kevorkian, fly-by-night thing. People who come to the nice facility won't just be put down. They will receive counseling and analysis. If they still want to go, it will be scheduled. They will have time to change their minds.

You say "going out on your own terms", some might say "giving up".Try losing a depressed loved one to assisted suicide when you didn't even know they were contemplating it...then see if you feel just peachy about it.This is of course all hypothetical, but I can see the other side of the argument.

Sure, but with the laws the way they are, only the "giving up" side is represented. Maybe if people knew there was an option to legally end their lives it would allow them to discuss their problems (whether mental or physical) and get input from their loved ones and doctors instead of having to live in fear with the knowledge that those who are in a position to help them risk legal repercussions if they assist.

Looked at several assisted suicide statutes in law school. If I remember correctly, the party wishing to end it had to speak to a psychologist or other mental health professional.I am absolutely pro assisted suicide. It is a person's choice, it is their body. Allow them to go with a little dignity.

Couldn't agree more. It's my body. The last thIng I thIng I think I would have the strength to do is off myself, but I want the right to decide for myself. Offer counseling, the right to back out at anytime, the involvement of close family, if there are any left, and no ambulance chasers and give folks a chance to die with dignity. The last thIng I want is someone telling me I have to suffer and die a painful, undignified death because they're trying to protect my soul from eternal damnation or are afraid of being sued. And I'm a giant #### when it comes to death.

I get where you're coming from, but is it really that hard to find a tall building? All joking aside, the problem I have is that it's a slippery slope. You can make assisted suicide legal *only* in cases where you're 100% sure the person is in a normal, logical state of mind when they decide. That could easily eventually turn into allowing it whenever they're cleared by any doctor/psychologist. That could easily turn into allowing it whenever they're cleared by family and friends. Pretty soon, you're killing people who are simply bi-polar or whacked out on meds. Once you cross the line, you'll have people fighting to push it farther and farther. Look at Replay in professional sports.The "it's my body, I choose when to die!!1!" argument doesn't hold as much water if you're hopped up on crazy pills and don't even really know where you are.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Sad to listen to that call. Hope he's OK. Diabetes can be awful. Watched my grandmother end up losing both legs up to about the knees before she died. I can understand how that prospect would cause someone to become depressed enough to try to end it all.

I'm curious why you would even listen to the call. It's baffling to me that these are public record.

 

[buddyboy]

Sad to listen to that call. Hope he's OK. Diabetes can be awful. Watched my grandmother end up losing both legs up to about the knees before she died. I can understand how that prospect would cause someone to become depressed enough to try to end it all.

I wouldn't be surprised if depression caused him to eat poorly resulting in diabetes.

Being a severe diabetic who had to spend 4 months in a hospital trying to avoid what I was told was a better than 60% chance I would have to have an above the knee leg amputation (I was lucky + only lost a toe) I think being depressed was part of the reason I didn't better care for myself and my diabetes. I won't go into details, but additional health issues have made it a struggle at times since it has change my life so drastically, to overcome depression. This is true especially since I understand it was my own choices and actions that got me into this mess. Maybe that was part of his issue too. I can somewhat understand why the thought of addition amputations after already losing one leg could drive him to becoming depressed enough to give up. Hopefully he will recover enough and have counselling so he feels he has a life worth living. I can't agree with assisted suicide unless someone is terminal or having an incredible amount of pain with no chance of ever being pain free, especially if it's because of depression that someone wants to die.

 

[Shrugs]

I get where you're coming from, but is it really that hard to find a tall building?

All joking aside, the problem I have is that it's a slippery slope. You can make assisted suicide legal *only* in cases where you're 100% sure the person is in a normal, logical state of mind when they decide. That could easily eventually turn into allowing it whenever they're cleared by any doctor/psychologist. That could easily turn into allowing it whenever they're cleared by family and friends. Pretty soon, you're killing people who are simply bi-polar or whacked out on meds. Once you cross the line, you'll have people fighting to push it farther and farther. Look at Replay in professional sports.

The "it's my body, I choose when to die!!1!" argument doesn't hold as much water if you're hopped up on crazy pills and don't even really know where you are.

As I said, they don't just come in and are put down. They are evaluated over time and given the opportunity to back out. Multiple psychiatrists can be used for second opinions. Family and friends can be brought in to take part in the sessions. I think the facilities and suicide being more out in the open and accepted would even lead to people who are bi-polar going in and getting help rather than going through with it on their own. It might not be perfect. Nothing is. But the bottom line is that death can be more humane. I think this article, which has been posted here before, ties in well with these ideas: http://zocalopublicsquare.org/thepublicsquare/2011/11/30/how-doctors-die/read/nexus/

 

[Christo]

All joking aside, the problem I have is that it's a slippery slope. You can make assisted suicide legal *only* in cases where you're 100% sure the person is in a normal, logical state of mind when they decide. That could easily eventually turn into allowing it whenever they're cleared by any doctor/psychologist. That could easily turn into allowing it whenever they're cleared by family and friends. Pretty soon, you're killing people who are simply bi-polar or whacked out on meds. Once you cross the line, you'll have people fighting to push it farther and farther. Look at Replay in professional sports.The "it's my body, I choose when to die!!1!" argument doesn't hold as much water if you're hopped up on crazy pills and don't even really know where you are.

Outlawing assisted suicide because it may be abused by someone, somewhere makes no more sense than outlawing cars because some may speed.

 

[wikkidpissah]

All joking aside, the problem I have is that it's a slippery slope. You can make assisted suicide legal *only* in cases where you're 100% sure the person is in a normal, logical state of mind when they decide. That could easily eventually turn into allowing it whenever they're cleared by any doctor/psychologist. That could easily turn into allowing it whenever they're cleared by family and friends. Pretty soon, you're killing people who are simply bi-polar or whacked out on meds. Once you cross the line, you'll have people fighting to push it farther and farther. Look at Replay in professional sports.The "it's my body, I choose when to die!!1!" argument doesn't hold as much water if you're hopped up on crazy pills and don't even really know where you are.

Outlawing assisted suicide because it may be abused by someone, somewhere makes no more sense than outlawing cars because some may speed.

suicide stuff is like the gay - folks overreact to it cuz they fear the capacity for it somewhere deep down within themselves.

 

[eoMMan]

Any links to his work?

 

[Sea Duck]

Any links to his work?

 

[shadyridr]

ill donate $1 to the human fund in his honor

 

[Otis]

Not really getting how this is funny. This place is weird sometimes.

 

[Raider Nation]

Get Well Kruger FB page

 

[toadstool]

Liked him in the Postman.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Man we wish that we could put my wife's grandma down, she is in a nursing home and just basically sits in bed and counts from 1-20 all day long, doesnt recognize anyone, doesnt know her name, just a body in a small nursing home room counting.....and counting...... it's sad, there should be a humane way to end it.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

R.I.P. :(

 

[Doctor Detroit]

MONTGOMERY —A Cincinnati native whose acting career spanned more than 30 years has passed away.

• 'Seinfeld' Actor Recovering From Self-Inflicted Gunshot
  
  Character actor Daniel von Bargen, best known for his portrayal of Mr. Kruger in "Seinfeld," is recovering after a suicide attempt at his Montgomery apartment.
  
  More

Daniel von Bargen, 64, died over the weekend after a long illness, sources confirmed Tuesday.

Self-inflicted gunshot wound is a "long illness?"

I like it! RIP Kruger.

 

[Wingnut]

Delayed reaction?

 

[gump]

RIP Kruger :tipsflask: I'm going to call everyone T-Bone today.

 

[MC Gas Money]

I dont see how abuse of an assisted suucide system is much of a problem.

They can only abuse it once cant they?

 

[MC Gas Money]

Doctor : I am sorry to tell you Mr Von Bargen but you have diabetes. Its critical that you work on your diet and exercise to manage your condition.

Von Bargen: im not too worried about it.

 

[Jayrod]

All joking aside, the problem I have is that it's a slippery slope. You can make assisted suicide legal *only* in cases where you're 100% sure the person is in a normal, logical state of mind when they decide. That could easily eventually turn into allowing it whenever they're cleared by any doctor/psychologist. That could easily turn into allowing it whenever they're cleared by family and friends. Pretty soon, you're killing people who are simply bi-polar or whacked out on meds. Once you cross the line, you'll have people fighting to push it farther and farther. Look at Replay in professional sports.The "it's my body, I choose when to die!!1!" argument doesn't hold as much water if you're hopped up on crazy pills and don't even really know where you are.

Outlawing assisted suicide because it may be abused by someone, somewhere makes no more sense than outlawing cars because some may speed.

suicide stuff is like the gay - folks overreact to it cuz they fear the capacity for it somewhere deep down within themselves.

For a smart man I'm surprised you buy into this. Unless it's true for you, that's a big assumption to make about the motives of others. As a person who is pretty deep in the world of the folks you are referring to, I can honestly tell you this belief is incorrect and is only repeated as a way to discredit and not as an actual valid point of debate.

 

[Gator Shawn]

Co Co the Monkey Boy!

Kruger Industrial Smoothing was the site of so many great Seinfeld moments.

The Human Fund was the name of many a fantasy team of mine.

 

[comfortably numb]

Instead of flowers the Kruger family asks that all donations be made to The Human Fund.

 

[wikkidpissah]

All joking aside, the problem I have is that it's a slippery slope. You can make assisted suicide legal *only* in cases where you're 100% sure the person is in a normal, logical state of mind when they decide. That could easily eventually turn into allowing it whenever they're cleared by any doctor/psychologist. That could easily turn into allowing it whenever they're cleared by family and friends. Pretty soon, you're killing people who are simply bi-polar or whacked out on meds. Once you cross the line, you'll have people fighting to push it farther and farther. Look at Replay in professional sports.The "it's my body, I choose when to die!!1!" argument doesn't hold as much water if you're hopped up on crazy pills and don't even really know where you are.

Outlawing assisted suicide because it may be abused by someone, somewhere makes no more sense than outlawing cars because some may speed.

suicide stuff is like the gay - folks overreact to it cuz they fear the capacity for it somewhere deep down within themselves.

For a smart man I'm surprised you buy into this. Unless it's true for you, that's a big assumption to make about the motives of others. As a person who is pretty deep in the world of the folks you are referring to, I can honestly tell you this belief is incorrect and is only repeated as a way to discredit and not as an actual valid point of debate.

I've pointed my life and talents, from the start in an almost maniacal fashion, to understanding human personality and have found no axiom in that search more reverberant than the one which calls us out for reacting most strongly to qualities in others that we subconsciously fear to exist within ourselves.

 

[Joe Summer]

Self-inflicted gunshot wound is a "long illness?"

Sounds like it was the diabetes that finally killed him.

 

[peaces]

He went out on a high note..Its K-UGER!

 

[Jayrod]

All joking aside, the problem I have is that it's a slippery slope. You can make assisted suicide legal *only* in cases where you're 100% sure the person is in a normal, logical state of mind when they decide. That could easily eventually turn into allowing it whenever they're cleared by any doctor/psychologist. That could easily turn into allowing it whenever they're cleared by family and friends. Pretty soon, you're killing people who are simply bi-polar or whacked out on meds. Once you cross the line, you'll have people fighting to push it farther and farther. Look at Replay in professional sports.The "it's my body, I choose when to die!!1!" argument doesn't hold as much water if you're hopped up on crazy pills and don't even really know where you are.

Outlawing assisted suicide because it may be abused by someone, somewhere makes no more sense than outlawing cars because some may speed.

suicide stuff is like the gay - folks overreact to it cuz they fear the capacity for it somewhere deep down within themselves.

For a smart man I'm surprised you buy into this. Unless it's true for you, that's a big assumption to make about the motives of others. As a person who is pretty deep in the world of the folks you are referring to, I can honestly tell you this belief is incorrect and is only repeated as a way to discredit and not as an actual valid point of debate.

I've pointed my life and talents, from the start in an almost maniacal fashion, to understanding human personality and have found no axiom in that search more reverberant than the one which calls us out for reacting most strongly to qualities in others that we subconsciously fear to exist within ourselves.

That may be true, but a lot of anti-gay folks are that way through indoctrination and not some deep seeded fear of being gay themselves. And the people who find suicide so abhorred is because there is a teaching (incorrect, IMO) in some circles of Christianity that if one commits suicide you automatically go to hell.

These things are big deals because they are taught to be big deals, not because people subconsciously fear they are gay or are suicidal.

 

[peaces]

Male mammal. Approximately 30 to 60 years of age. Weightuh indeterminate.

 

[wikkidpissah]

All joking aside, the problem I have is that it's a slippery slope. You can make assisted suicide legal *only* in cases where you're 100% sure the person is in a normal, logical state of mind when they decide. That could easily eventually turn into allowing it whenever they're cleared by any doctor/psychologist. That could easily turn into allowing it whenever they're cleared by family and friends. Pretty soon, you're killing people who are simply bi-polar or whacked out on meds. Once you cross the line, you'll have people fighting to push it farther and farther. Look at Replay in professional sports.The "it's my body, I choose when to die!!1!" argument doesn't hold as much water if you're hopped up on crazy pills and don't even really know where you are.

Outlawing assisted suicide because it may be abused by someone, somewhere makes no more sense than outlawing cars because some may speed.

suicide stuff is like the gay - folks overreact to it cuz they fear the capacity for it somewhere deep down within themselves.

For a smart man I'm surprised you buy into this. Unless it's true for you, that's a big assumption to make about the motives of others. As a person who is pretty deep in the world of the folks you are referring to, I can honestly tell you this belief is incorrect and is only repeated as a way to discredit and not as an actual valid point of debate.

I've pointed my life and talents, from the start in an almost maniacal fashion, to understanding human personality and have found no axiom in that search more reverberant than the one which calls us out for reacting most strongly to qualities in others that we subconsciously fear to exist within ourselves.

That may be true, but a lot of anti-gay folks are that way through indoctrination and not some deep seeded fear of being gay themselves. And the people who find suicide so abhorred is because there is a teaching (incorrect, IMO) in some circles of Christianity that if one commits suicide you automatically go to hell.

These things are big deals because they are taught to be big deals, not because people subconsciously fear they are gay or are suicidal.

NOT gonna get in another gay argument, mostly because the absolutism is as bad on one side as another now so there's no percentage in doing so. Whether men know it or want to admit it, almost all of them have had a #### in their mouth (most often their own) in their dreams and that is almost the entire reason reaction to homosexuality is so strong. Boomer gen was decidedly not actively indoctrinated against gays - the subject was of less currency than martians or commies in our household and there were closeted gays in our immediate family. I'll be happy to read direct response but will not answer, if only not to hijack another thread.

 

[Wingnut]

Instead of flowers the Kruger family asks that all donations be made to The Human Fund.

 

[Jayrod]

All joking aside, the problem I have is that it's a slippery slope. You can make assisted suicide legal *only* in cases where you're 100% sure the person is in a normal, logical state of mind when they decide. That could easily eventually turn into allowing it whenever they're cleared by any doctor/psychologist. That could easily turn into allowing it whenever they're cleared by family and friends. Pretty soon, you're killing people who are simply bi-polar or whacked out on meds. Once you cross the line, you'll have people fighting to push it farther and farther. Look at Replay in professional sports.The "it's my body, I choose when to die!!1!" argument doesn't hold as much water if you're hopped up on crazy pills and don't even really know where you are.

Outlawing assisted suicide because it may be abused by someone, somewhere makes no more sense than outlawing cars because some may speed.

suicide stuff is like the gay - folks overreact to it cuz they fear the capacity for it somewhere deep down within themselves.

For a smart man I'm surprised you buy into this. Unless it's true for you, that's a big assumption to make about the motives of others. As a person who is pretty deep in the world of the folks you are referring to, I can honestly tell you this belief is incorrect and is only repeated as a way to discredit and not as an actual valid point of debate.

I've pointed my life and talents, from the start in an almost maniacal fashion, to understanding human personality and have found no axiom in that search more reverberant than the one which calls us out for reacting most strongly to qualities in others that we subconsciously fear to exist within ourselves.

That may be true, but a lot of anti-gay folks are that way through indoctrination and not some deep seeded fear of being gay themselves. And the people who find suicide so abhorred is because there is a teaching (incorrect, IMO) in some circles of Christianity that if one commits suicide you automatically go to hell.

These things are big deals because they are taught to be big deals, not because people subconsciously fear they are gay or are suicidal.

NOT gonna get in another gay argument, mostly because the absolutism is as bad on one side as another now so there's no percentage in doing so. Whether men know it or want to admit it, almost all of them have had a #### in their mouth (most often their own) in their dreams and that is almost the entire reason reaction to homosexuality is so strong. Boomer gen was decidedly not actively indoctrinated against gays - the subject was of less currency than martians or commies and there were closeted gays in our immediate family. I'll be happy to read direct response but will not answer, if only not to hijack another thread.

I'm not saying it never happens, but to include it in a blanket description/explanation is overly simplistic, IMO.

 

[Thorn]

All joking aside, the problem I have is that it's a slippery slope. You can make assisted suicide legal *only* in cases where you're 100% sure the person is in a normal, logical state of mind when they decide. That could easily eventually turn into allowing it whenever they're cleared by any doctor/psychologist. That could easily turn into allowing it whenever they're cleared by family and friends. Pretty soon, you're killing people who are simply bi-polar or whacked out on meds. Once you cross the line, you'll have people fighting to push it farther and farther. Look at Replay in professional sports.The "it's my body, I choose when to die!!1!" argument doesn't hold as much water if you're hopped up on crazy pills and don't even really know where you are.

Outlawing assisted suicide because it may be abused by someone, somewhere makes no more sense than outlawing cars because some may speed.

suicide stuff is like the gay - folks overreact to it cuz they fear the capacity for it somewhere deep down within themselves.

For a smart man I'm surprised you buy into this. Unless it's true for you, that's a big assumption to make about the motives of others. As a person who is pretty deep in the world of the folks you are referring to, I can honestly tell you this belief is incorrect and is only repeated as a way to discredit and not as an actual valid point of debate.

I've pointed my life and talents, from the start in an almost maniacal fashion, to understanding human personality and have found no axiom in that search more reverberant than the one which calls us out for reacting most strongly to qualities in others that we subconsciously fear to exist within ourselves.

That may be true, but a lot of anti-gay folks are that way through indoctrination and not some deep seeded fear of being gay themselves. And the people who find suicide so abhorred is because there is a teaching (incorrect, IMO) in some circles of Christianity that if one commits suicide you automatically go to hell.

These things are big deals because they are taught to be big deals, not because people subconsciously fear they are gay or are suicidal.

NOT gonna get in another gay argument, mostly because the absolutism is as bad on one side as another now so there's no percentage in doing so. Whether men know it or want to admit it, almost all of them have had a #### in their mouth (most often their own) in their dreams and that is almost the entire reason reaction to homosexuality is so strong. Boomer gen was decidedly not actively indoctrinated against gays - the subject was of less currency than martians or commies and there were closeted gays in our immediate family. I'll be happy to read direct response but will not answer, if only not to hijack another thread.

Wait so if I'm favor of gay rights, then I've never had a #### in my mouth?

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

He should have let Dr Van Nostrand take a section and this could have all been avoided.