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Challenge Coin, a/k/a "General's Coin".ETA: "During the memorial service on 10 November 2009 for the victims of the tragedy at Fort Hood on 5 November 2009, President Barack Obama placed his Commander's Coin on each of the memorials erected for the victims"
I think the big issue will be the ground rounds this guy gave. It was highly inflammatory and had know place in academic medical setting much less at a military function. The fact that the his advisor and the program director did not move to terminate this guy based on this will likely be a big deal. I have a buddy (and fellow footballguy that rarely posts) who is doing many of the interviews for the military around this issue. He mentioned that depending on how things play out this could even cost the Hospital Commander of the WRAMC at the time his job (he is currently a General).If you have not seen the Grand Rounds it is linked to in the Washington Post from today.Joe Bryant said:
If you need a warm body you may take a substandard resident and the fellowship he was part of had difficulty filling at times. However, this guy was beyond substandard. He was known to attempt to convert psych patients to Islam. This is unethical on multiple levels. I thought he was on his way out when I left after my Chief year. The fact he graduated really leaves a black mark on a program that I had held in high regard.Joe Bryant said:
Thanks cartel. Appreciate the insights.J
I think that is what it is supposed to do...
How could it be inaccurate? Nothing justifies these acts, certainly not ones faith. It is a pretty general statement, that only implies the murderer's faith might have played a role. I thought Obama could have gone a little further, but his statement was very good overall. At least there were no shout outs.
OK, I may have misinterpreted what the President was saying, then. If he was saying there was no justification for these murderous and craven acts, that is fine. But if he is saying no religion justifies these murderous and craven acts, I would argue there is one religion that does seem to justify exactly this sort of thing.
Then you would be wrong. It is an extreme interpretation of Islam that justifies the killing of innocents. The majority of Muslims living around the world, to the best of my knowledge, do not believe this. Certainly the vast majority of American Muslims do not.If you have evidence that Islam justifies the Fort Hood shootings, please present it.
No evidence other than what I see in the papers... pretty much every time there is an incident like this, either here or abroad, it seems it's one or more Muslims doing it in the name of Islam. And the only people saying that is not Islam seem to be other westerners, such as yourself, who probably would have hesitated to have reported Hasan for fear of being accused of being bigoted against Islam for doing so.
If you have read my posts in this thread, you would know that this is not the case, and that I took a considerable amount of flack for suggesting right after this happened that this event was religiously motivated. But you need to be very careful with making such a broad statement. Hasan is an Islamist, which is an extreme form of radical Muslim. He does not represent the majority of Muslims, any more than Hasidic Jews represent Judiasm. There are over 15,000 Muslims serving honorably in the armed services of the United States. Today is the day we should be thanking them for their service, rather than attempting to tie all of them to an evil man like Hasan.
what papers are you reading?do you think abortion doctor killers are representative of all Christians?
What papers are you reading that don't tie Muslim extremism with terrorism? JIDF has a list of Muslims tied to terrorism - and this is in the U.S. only.
why would the most extreme members be considered representative of an entire faith?
Never heard of that, that is pretty cool.
I guess part of the problem may be that the extremists blend in with the rest of the mainstream Muslims and we don't know they are extremists until they do something like the Ft. Hood deal. Meanwhile, I believe there is a perception that mainstream Muslims at least tolerate the extremists' activities. So I could be totally wrong as to the reality of the situation with respect to the majority of muslims... but one thing I am not wrong about is they have a public relations problem right now, and I don't see anyone within the Islamic community doing anythng to fix it.
Just curious, do you hold Christianity responsible for the terrorist attacks against abortion clinics, doctors, and staff?http://www.prochoice.org/pubs_research/pub...lence_stats.pdf
Ed Brayton got this right yesterday:
Thanks MT.I had something along this discussion this morning.
It's all well and good to denounce this terrorist act after the fact but where are they on a regular basis? Where is the Million Muslim March in support of the US and against the radical element of their own people? Where are their own organizations that weed out the danger from within. Who are the big voices among US Muslims that we could hear from on a regular basis showing progress within the community denouncing these types of things before they happen.I'm sure there are people working to this goal and incidents have been prevented due to tips from law-abiding Muslims, but until the community comes together as a whole in support of this country there will be more attacks like those at Ft. Hood, only on ordinary citizens.
This was a lonely, sexually frustrated, failure at life, narcissist who latched on the fringes of a mainstream religion to excuse his depraved behaviors. Maybe instead of blaming our Muslim neighbors for the action Hasan we should reach out to them. If we probably go a lot further to a peaceful coexistence.
That would be way too tough for some Cartel.
I appreciate that you have some intimate knowledge of Hasan here cartel so you can take the Ft. Hood shooting out of the equation and I still stand by my comments. I felt no different before the tragedy. Do you not agree there needs to be some vocal opposition from within the Muslim community so law-abiding and honest citizens can come forward without fear of retaliation from within?
and who's to say this is any different from many suicide bombers overseas? A terrorist is a terrorist.This was a lonely, sexually frustrated, failure at life, narcissist who latched on the fringes of a mainstream religion to excuse his depraved behaviors.
Suicide bombers overseas are usually much younger, are barely educated, and come from lower socioeconomic class. They are quite unlike Eric Rudolph or Hasan who were loners bent on doing harm based on their skewed views on religion and politics. Suicide bombers in Afghanistan, Iraq, or in Gaza are normally driven to it by family and an ideology created by group behavior. Sometimes they are persuaded to doing it by peers and family or even sold into it. Rudolph and Hasan had choices but chose to inflict pain on their fellow man anyway which to me makes them all the more unstable and dangerous than a typical suicide bomber who feels their only way to a good life is via heaven.
Usually. Normally. Sometimes. No one says they're all alike.The end result is always the same when they carry out their objective.
Well you want to compare them, I'm telling you it's not really a great comparison. Typical suicide bombers and Hasan and Rudolph are not very alike up to the act itself.
Agree on these
it sounded like you did here.
The end result is always the same, it's what leads them to that point that differs.
I guess I am at a loss at your point. How many American born muslims had carried out this type of violence in the name of Allah on American soil? There have been a lot of similar type terrostic type violence by the white supremicists, antiabortionists or just random crazies but not muslims (except perhaps the DC sniper). I think the muslim community as a whole (not the idiot fringe) is just as horrified and the rest of America.
Thanks for contrasting.
I think that is pretty important don't you?
During the Civil Rights Movement, there were plenty of people that thought that violence was the proper means to the end. Dr. King was always at the forefront urging a peaceful resolution. Same thing with Gandhi during the turbulent times he and his people went through. It was through peace that they achieved their objectives. I'd like to see someone big in the Muslim community be out in front of these times as well.
Seems like that is a part of the problem. The strucure of Islam is still based on a hierarchical structure. Much like pre-reformation Christianity. The Catholic church still has a similar structure, but their power was greatly reduced by the protestant movement.When authority gives direction it doesn't really appear like there is much room for questioning.
There was no "PC" business that "earned" us this travesty.
There is already info that suggest PC played a role. I see two reasons people looked the other way.1. People were afraid to look racists by trying to remove this guy2. Higher ups believed this guy was just looking for an out to going to combatfeel free to add more explanations. But this guy did everything he could to inform the world he was a jihadist. You are never going to get more red flags then this guy threw up.
Wow, how can anyone be so dense?
My opinioon is that his superiors didn’t understand just how mentally sick and unbalanced he was and like bureaucracies of any size, it is much easier to move a problem than deal with it yourself.
Holy #### man, open your eyes. Sick and unbalanced??? Holy ####
