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Shooting at Ft. Hood (1 Viewer)

However, if it were an act of terror, would those people be bigots for saying what it was? What his name is or what he looks like doesn't matter to me. The fact that a bunch of people are dead is what bothers me. The fact that warning signs appeared to have been ignored leading to those senseless deaths bothers me. Was he a jihadist? i guess an investigation into the contacts he made will tell.

Curious if the fact that the people who died were on a military base/associated with the military makes this more palatable for some? From what I am reading from both sides, the right is quick to pull the terroist card and the left is quick to pull the bigot card. Who is pulling the "that guy is scumbag" card?
I'm pretty sure everyone is agreeing that the guy was a piece of ####. Some people would like to know what made this guy snap. Others would like to rant and rave about terrorists and islam.
Ha :wall: Terrorism and islam IS what made the guy snap. Follow?
X
:lmao: How insensitive of me. Thats right, there is no such thing as terrorists.
so people are born terrorists?
 
Anyone who grabs multiple guns and shoots 30+ innocent people in cold blood is mentally sick.
Is it possible it was just evil? Is all evil a mental illness? I think conservatives see a world where there is good and evil. Liberals see a world as either having liberal beliefs or being mentally ill.
He committed an extremely evil act, and now we can look at the sum of his life and say he is an evil man. Would you have said he was an evil man a year ago?
 
My opinioon is that his superiors didn’t understand just how mentally sick and unbalanced he was and like bureaucracies of any size, it is much easier to move a problem than deal with it yourself.
Holy #### man, open your eyes. Sick and unbalanced??? Holy ####
He wasn't sick and unbalanced?
He was a freakin terrorist
Are you implying that "sick and unbalanced" is false, or that it's comically understated?If the former, I should point out that not all terrorists are always mentally healthy and balanced. Perhaps that's not obvious, and thus needed to be said.

 
What would you like to discuss? Why all the glaring signals were ignored?

Why do you think they were?

But Im not going to discuss this guy like he is some random nutjob that just snapped. Thats embarrasingly naive.

What is your implication then? This was some greater plot by Al Qaeda? All signs point to Hasan acting alone. Was he influenced by the radical fringe indirectly I would say most probably. But in the end, I think the investigation will show this is a random nut job who did not want to deploy because of his beliefs about the war. This is not an excuse as what he did is not excusable and certainly not for his reasons.

 
Ok so we agree that political correctness is the real problem here. We're making progress.
:goodposting:
Just let him go. It is like talking to a wall.
Love to hear why you think all the warning signs were ignored.
So you are saying that every single person that witnessed this guy's craziness was being PC? How many people do you think that is? Should we call Guiness? Maybe, just maybe, it isn't black and white.
 
So you are saying that every single person that witnessed this guy's craziness was being PC? How many people do you think that is? Should we call Guiness? Maybe, just maybe, it isn't black and white.
There are those who want to be PC... but I think most are fearful of the consequences of not being PC. If you are a career officer in the military then you might be motivated to not seem like you are being discriminatory of someone of the Muslim faith or Middle Eastern decent. Why? Because your career can end and/or be severely ######ed by making a bad step that blows up in your face. I think there is no doubt that at least part of what explains some of the non-action (and action which would include his promotion to Major) was driven by PC and/or fear of PC.ETA: ######ed = slowed
 
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So you are saying that every single person that witnessed this guy's craziness was being PC? How many people do you think that is? Should we call Guiness? Maybe, just maybe, it isn't black and white.
There are those who want to be PC... but I think most are fearful of the consequences of not being PC. If you are a career officer in the military then you might be motivated to not seem like you are being discriminatory of someone of the Muslim faith or Middle Eastern decent. Why? Because your career can end and/or be severely ######ed by making a bad step that blows up in your face. I think there is no doubt that at least part of what explains some of the non-action (and action which would include his promotion to Major) was driven by PC and/or fear of PC.ETA: ######ed = slowed
I can agree with this. RBM likes to scream out absolutes with no content and generally shows that he is not interested in discussing any side that isn't in absolute agreement.
 
So you are saying that every single person that witnessed this guy's craziness was being PC? How many people do you think that is? Should we call Guiness? Maybe, just maybe, it isn't black and white.
There are those who want to be PC... but I think most are fearful of the consequences of not being PC. If you are a career officer in the military then you might be motivated to not seem like you are being discriminatory of someone of the Muslim faith or Middle Eastern decent. Why? Because your career can end and/or be severely ######ed by making a bad step that blows up in your face. I think there is no doubt that at least part of what explains some of the non-action (and action which would include his promotion to Major) was driven by PC and/or fear of PC.ETA: ######ed = slowed
Or maybe, as former FBI and CIA operatives have stated on TV, all of the information that is now being compiled was not being seen in total by any one person or agency. Critical information is still not being shared across agencies. The Dept of Homeland Sec was suppose to tackle this issue head on and make changes. Just a thought.
 
Ok so we agree that political correctness is the real problem here. We're making progress.
:wall:
Just let him go. It is like talking to a wall.
Love to hear why you think all the warning signs were ignored.
So you are saying that every single person that witnessed this guy's craziness was being PC? How many people do you think that is? Should we call Guiness? Maybe, just maybe, it isn't black and white.
Not every single person, but Im saying that as for some of the decision makers, PC definitely had a huge effect on this guy not being handled the way he shouldve been handled. I have no doubt about that.
 
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Not every single person, but Im saying that as for some of the decision makers, PC definitely had a huge effect on this guy not being handled the way he shouldve been handled. I have no doubt about that.
I sat in some of these meetings. PC is an excuse. It is to much trouble sometime to kick someone out. I can tell you it is a pain in the ### since I have done it. Bottom line it should have been done. Stop making excuses for something you have not a clue about.
 
DD showing once again what a class act he is. I love how you think you have the whole thing figured out you know it all windbag. And nobody else should even dare to have an opinion different than yours. Typical
After reading the last page, I found this post even funnier than I found it a week ago.
 
So you are saying that every single person that witnessed this guy's craziness was being PC? How many people do you think that is? Should we call Guiness? Maybe, just maybe, it isn't black and white.
There are those who want to be PC... but I think most are fearful of the consequences of not being PC. If you are a career officer in the military then you might be motivated to not seem like you are being discriminatory of someone of the Muslim faith or Middle Eastern decent. Why? Because your career can end and/or be severely ######ed by making a bad step that blows up in your face. I think there is no doubt that at least part of what explains some of the non-action (and action which would include his promotion to Major) was driven by PC and/or fear of PC.ETA: ######ed = slowed
Or maybe, as former FBI and CIA operatives have stated on TV, all of the information that is now being compiled was not being seen in total by any one person or agency. Critical information is still not being shared across agencies. The Dept of Homeland Sec was suppose to tackle this issue head on and make changes. Just a thought.
Sure, but it seems that there was enough for multiple agencies or even the military to act. My understanding is the man had a bad review but yet still was given a promotion to Major from Captain. (Which my understanding is that that automatically triggers a new background investigation). Among many, many, many seemingly hard to explain things.
 
So you are saying that every single person that witnessed this guy's craziness was being PC? How many people do you think that is? Should we call Guiness? Maybe, just maybe, it isn't black and white.
There are those who want to be PC... but I think most are fearful of the consequences of not being PC. If you are a career officer in the military then you might be motivated to not seem like you are being discriminatory of someone of the Muslim faith or Middle Eastern decent. Why? Because your career can end and/or be severely ######ed by making a bad step that blows up in your face. I think there is no doubt that at least part of what explains some of the non-action (and action which would include his promotion to Major) was driven by PC and/or fear of PC.ETA: ######ed = slowed
Or maybe, as former FBI and CIA operatives have stated on TV, all of the information that is now being compiled was not being seen in total by any one person or agency. Critical information is still not being shared across agencies. The Dept of Homeland Sec was suppose to tackle this issue head on and make changes. Just a thought.
Sure, but it seems that there was enough for multiple agencies or even the military to act. My understanding is the man had a bad review but yet still was given a promotion to Major from Captain. (Which my understanding is that that automatically triggers a new background investigation). Among many, many, many seemingly hard to explain things.
Where did you read that? It's certainly not the case for other military fields but I'd just like to know where you got that info.Also promotion to Major is pretty much automatic. I would guess he was promoted because of the shortage of Majors in the medical field. Happens all the time.

 
Not every single person, but Im saying that as for some of the decision makers, PC definitely had a huge effect on this guy not being handled the way he shouldve been handled. I have no doubt about that.
I sat in some of these meetings. PC is an excuse. It is to much trouble sometime to kick someone out. I can tell you it is a pain in the ### since I have done it. Bottom line it should have been done. Stop making excuses for something you have not a clue about.
If he stops commenting on things he has no clue about he would have nothing to say at all.
 
DD showing once again what a class act he is. I love how you think you have the whole thing figured out you know it all windbag. And nobody else should even dare to have an opinion different than yours. Typical
After reading the last page, I found this post even funnier than I found it a week ago.
I know right....what a fool you made of yourself. Even bigger than usual.You botched this one bad from day 1
 
Not every single person, but Im saying that as for some of the decision makers, PC definitely had a huge effect on this guy not being handled the way he shouldve been handled. I have no doubt about that.
I sat in some of these meetings. PC is an excuse. It is to much trouble sometime to kick someone out. I can tell you it is a pain in the ### since I have done it. Bottom line it should have been done. Stop making excuses for something you have not a clue about.
If he stops commenting on things he has no clue about he would have nothing to say at all.
Ohhhhhhhhh rimshot
 
DD showing once again what a class act he is. I love how you think you have the whole thing figured out you know it all windbag. And nobody else should even dare to have an opinion different than yours. Typical
After reading the last page, I found this post even funnier than I found it a week ago.
I know right....what a fool you made of yourself. Even bigger than usual.You botched this one bad from day 1
Coming from the most inept poster in a thread with Arctic Edge and Peens, I guess I should take this as a compliment. :lmao:
 
DD showing once again what a class act he is. I love how you think you have the whole thing figured out you know it all windbag. And nobody else should even dare to have an opinion different than yours. Typical
After reading the last page, I found this post even funnier than I found it a week ago.
I know right....what a fool you made of yourself. Even bigger than usual.You botched this one bad from day 1
Coming from the most inept poster in a thread with Arctic Edge and Peens, I guess I should take this as a compliment. :lmao:
Hard to keep up with this kind of wit
 
Hey DD, you voted for this guy:

"In a country of 300 million, it's inevitable that some of them are going to snap here and there.."

-President Obama

Sad.

 
Hey DD, you voted for this guy:"In a country of 300 million, it's inevitable that some of them are going to snap here and there.."-President ObamaSad.
I stood with a lot of people who didn't vote for him to watch the funeral and they all said he did an honorable job at Fort Hood that day. If you knew anything about service you would have recognized that but the hate in you runs too deep.
 
Hey DD, you voted for this guy:"In a country of 300 million, it's inevitable that some of them are going to snap here and there.."-President ObamaSad.
I stood with a lot of people who didn't vote for him to watch the funeral and they all said he did an honorable job at Fort Hood that day. If you knew anything about service you would have recognized that but the hate in you runs too deep.
What hate? IMO he is naive and dangerous for this country, that's true, but I dont hate him. If anybody showed malice in this thread it was you and and your deliberate amd ridiculous accusation, when you fully knew what RBM and Brutis were talking about.Your a sharp guy, I'll give you that, but for every informational/ well done post, you type about three that are super arrogant, condescending and sometimes just mean. :thumbup:
 
Hey DD, you voted for this guy:"In a country of 300 million, it's inevitable that some of them are going to snap here and there.."-President ObamaSad.
I stood with a lot of people who didn't vote for him to watch the funeral and they all said he did an honorable job at Fort Hood that day. If you knew anything about service you would have recognized that but the hate in you runs too deep.
It's true I've never served, but I would match my support of the military and how I show it with anyone. Also, I've talked to many people that I know in the military over the last few days who agreed that Obama was a disgrace in how he handled this sad event.
 
What hate? IMO he is naive and dangerous for this country, that's true, but I dont hate him.
Good, you shouldn't. I never hated W, I don't even think I dislike W at least as a person.
If anybody showed malice in this thread it was you and and your deliberate amd ridiculous accusation, when you fully knew what RBM and Brutis were talking about.
I would rather not continue talking about this, but regardless of what they meant the timing was horrible, disrespectful to the fallen, and unnecessary. If you don't agree with it then fine, I acknowledge your position and point regardless.
Your a sharp guy, I'll give you that, but for every informational/ well done post, you type about three that are super arrogant, condescending and sometimes just mean.
I can be all of that, I have been a jerk at times and I often can admit when I am. The only thing I'll apologize for in this thread is helping it get off track with personal disagreements which aren't necessary and making it into something about us instead of about what happened.
 
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2009/1...really_sho.html

Ft. Hood Officer Who Really Shot Hasan Talks

5:24 pm

November 12, 2009

By Frank James

As it turns out, Sgt. Kimberly D. Munley, the Ft. Hood Army Base police officer who was credited as a hero for taking down Maj. Nidal Hasan, the accused killer of 13 people, may not have actually shot Hasan.

But she will still be considered courageous in the eyes of many people for chasing the alleged gunman in order to stop the rampage.

Still, if she was incorrectly receiving credit for stopping Hasan, that's important to know. The fact that she wasn't the one to fire the shots that ended the shooting spree doesn't necessarily hurt the argument some have made that her actions argue for women in combat.

As it turns out, another officer who responded to the emergency, Senior Sgt Mark Todd, is being credited by an eyewitness for putting Hasan on his back. The New York Times interviewed Todd on Thursday.

An excerpt from the NYT:

In the interview, Sergeant Todd said he and Sergeant Munley had pulled up to the scene in separate cars at the same time. He said they began running up a small hill toward the building that held the processing center where unarmed soldiers reported for check-ups and vaccinations before deployment. The gunman was already outside, Sergeant Todd recalled.

"That's when the bystanders were pointing in his direction," he said. "And when we popped up, he was standing there, and we shouted our commands -- 'Police, drop your weapons!' -- and he just opened fire on us."

Sergeant Todd said he was slightly in front of Sergeant Munley on the hill. "Once we took fire, she broke right and I broke left," he said.

Sergeant Todd said he did not see Sergeant Munley get shot. He said he started to circle around the building, but then backtracked as panicked bystanders told him of the gunman's movements.

"As it unfolded, I went a different direction and he went a different direction, and we met up in the front of the building," he said.

Sergeant Todd said he then saw Sergeant Munley on the ground, wounded. He shouted again at the gunman to drop his weapon.

"Once I came around the front of the building, I caught his attention again, started shouting commands, and then he opened up a second time," Sergeant Todd said. "And that's when I returned fire, neutralized

him and secured him."

The Army's misidentification of the officer who shot Hasan is just one more "fact" that turned out not to be true, just like the initial report that Hasan was dead and the first reports that there was more than one shooter. It's just another example of how the fog of war is not limited to war.
 
Not every single person, but Im saying that as for some of the decision makers, PC definitely had a huge effect on this guy not being handled the way he shouldve been handled. I have no doubt about that.
I sat in some of these meetings. PC is an excuse. It is to much trouble sometime to kick someone out. I can tell you it is a pain in the ### since I have done it. Bottom line it should have been done. Stop making excuses for something you have not a clue about.
If he stops commenting on things he has no clue about he would have nothing to say at all.
Ohhhhhhhhh rimshot
I know the truth must hurt. You are just going to have to deal with it.
 
‘Shut up,’ Gates tells DoD leakersBy John T. Bennett - Staff writerPosted : Thursday Nov 12, 2009 19:48:43 ESTABOARD THE DEFENSE SECRETARY’S PLANE — In very blunt language, a visibly irritated Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Thursday that he is “appalled by the amount of” information government officials have leaked to the press during the president’s Afghanistan strategy review.Talking with reporters aboard his jet en route to a military vehicle factory in Wisconsin, the secretary said such disclosures of sensitive information on any “options under consideration” does not serve the nation well. Nor are they in the military’s strategic interests, he added.If Gates learns of any Defense Department employees who have leaked information about the war strategy review, he warned, “That would probably be a career ender.”He showed the same irritation over leaks about the Fort Hood, Texas, shootings. All individuals involved in or privy to the ongoing investigation into the killing spree “should just shut up,” Gates told reporters.Leakers need to realize they only have “one piece” of the picture about why 13 soldiers were killed and dozens more were wounded last week.He said it is best to let investigators handling the mass murder probe and collect all possible data before reaching conclusions about the alleged shooter’s intentions, motivations or associations.
Secretary Gates is not very happy with some of the things being leaked to the media because it is compromising the investigation, and it was passed along internally as well. I have talked to my friends up there about some of this and needless to say people are taking extra precautions when speaking about this to anyone not intimately involved or trusted. Locally here (we often work where he is hospitalized) we found out that Hasan was paralyzed from the waist down and tried to comprehend how it was for the nurse to "change him out" every few hours. Lots of "oops I'm sorry your own #### just fell on your chest like that" discussions. A little levity in a military environment when things get too serious always helps.
 
One other thing.

Hasan will not face the death penalty, at least it is highly unlikely. The military hasn't executed anyone since 1962 and I don't think Hasan will ever get cooked even if he receives the death sentence.

I have no problem with this. Why execute a guy who wants to be a martyr? Let him rot for the rest of his life in Leavenworth.

 
One other thing.

Hasan will not face the death penalty, at least it is highly unlikely. The military hasn't executed anyone since 1962 and I don't think Hasan will ever get cooked even if he receives the death sentence.

I have no problem with this. Why execute a guy who wants to be a martyr? Let him rot for the rest of his life in Leavenworth.
I totally agree. I think he would consider rotting in jail worse than the death penalty anyway so I wouldn't want to give him what he wants.
 
So you are saying that every single person that witnessed this guy's craziness was being PC? How many people do you think that is? Should we call Guiness? Maybe, just maybe, it isn't black and white.
There are those who want to be PC... but I think most are fearful of the consequences of not being PC. If you are a career officer in the military then you might be motivated to not seem like you are being discriminatory of someone of the Muslim faith or Middle Eastern decent. Why? Because your career can end and/or be severely ######ed by making a bad step that blows up in your face. I think there is no doubt that at least part of what explains some of the non-action (and action which would include his promotion to Major) was driven by PC and/or fear of PC.ETA: ######ed = slowed
Or maybe, as former FBI and CIA operatives have stated on TV, all of the information that is now being compiled was not being seen in total by any one person or agency. Critical information is still not being shared across agencies. The Dept of Homeland Sec was suppose to tackle this issue head on and make changes. Just a thought.
Sure, but it seems that there was enough for multiple agencies or even the military to act. My understanding is the man had a bad review but yet still was given a promotion to Major from Captain. (Which my understanding is that that automatically triggers a new background investigation). Among many, many, many seemingly hard to explain things.
Where did you read that? It's certainly not the case for other military fields but I'd just like to know where you got that info.Also promotion to Major is pretty much automatic. I would guess he was promoted because of the shortage of Majors in the medical field. Happens all the time.
:goodposting: Reaching the 10 year mark of your security clearance which can happen around the same time many are promoted to MAJ will trigger a renewal of your clearance, but it has nothing to do with promotion. Doctors are usually promoted faster than that. Across the various fields, somewhere near 90% get promoted to MAJ. I'm not sure about the docs but I'd guess it's slightly higher.

He was a subpar performer but I haven't seen any adverse action taken against him. That's a big reason people don't get promoted, although I disagree with it, a subpar performer will probably be promoted over a CPT who gets a DUI or even minor infractions.

 
One other thing. Hasan will not face the death penalty, at least it is highly unlikely. The military hasn't executed anyone since 1962 and I don't think Hasan will ever get cooked even if he receives the death sentence. I have no problem with this. Why execute a guy who wants to be a martyr? Let him rot for the rest of his life in Leavenworth.
oh, he'll face it alright. Unlikely to get it, considering we haven't executed Soldiers who have thrown grenades into tents, run down a formation of their peers, etc. But it's certainly on the table and I'm interested to see if he even bothers putting together a plea. This is one of the worst crimes committed recently, worse than any of those. Add in any thoughts the panel has of terrorism being involved and he's more likely than anyone I can remember to get it. But, like you stated, that he wants to be a martyr will play into the analysis as well. Something to keep in mind, senior officers will be making the decision here, they're more likely to sentence him to death than the junior officers that are involved in most trials.
 
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One other thing. Hasan will not face the death penalty, at least it is highly unlikely. The military hasn't executed anyone since 1962 and I don't think Hasan will ever get cooked even if he receives the death sentence. I have no problem with this. Why execute a guy who wants to be a martyr? Let him rot for the rest of his life in Leavenworth.
oh, he'll face it alright. Unlikely to get it, considering we haven't executed Soldiers who have thrown grenades into tents, run down a formation of their peers, etc. But it's certainly on the table and I'm interested to see if he even bothers putting together a plea. This is one of the worst crimes committed recently, worse than any of those. Add in any thoughts the panel has of terrorism being involved and he's more likely than anyone I can remember to get it. But, like you stated, that he wants to be a martyr will play into the analysis as well. Something to keep in mind, senior officers will be making the decision here, they're more likely to sentence him to death than the junior officers that are involved in most trials.
Do you think if he is given the death penalty it will actually be carried out? I meant "face" in the sense that it won't likely be carried out, not that it wouldn't be handed down in a court martial. Also can I ask...can his lawyer get this to a civilian court now or after a court martial or because he committed this on base is his only option to be given a court martial? Also in my experience court martials are pretty quick in both proximity to the actual event happening, and in time in actual court time. I remember a murder case in Germany with a lot of variables and it went to a court martial 6 months after the incident, and was done in 4 days. In your experience in the most serious cases, how long until this goes to trial? How long do you think a trail like this would take? Any pre-trial manuevering by the defense here to make this a non-death penalty case? Insanity plea? If so could that plea determine whether they seek the death penalty? TIA for your insight FUBAR.
 
Do you think if he is given the death penalty it will actually be carried out? I meant "face" in the sense that it won't likely be carried out, not that it wouldn't be handed down in a court martial. Also can I ask...can his lawyer get this to a civilian court now or after a court martial or because he committed this on base is his only option to be given a court martial? Also in my experience court martials are pretty quick in both proximity to the actual event happening, and in time in actual court time. I remember a murder case in Germany with a lot of variables and it went to a court martial 6 months after the incident, and was done in 4 days. In your experience in the most serious cases, how long until this goes to trial? How long do you think a trail like this would take? Any pre-trial manuevering by the defense here to make this a non-death penalty case? Insanity plea? If so could that plea determine whether they seek the death penalty? TIA for your insight FUBAR.
I don't think an insanity plea would hold water in any court of law. He may not get put to death, but it should be vigorously pursued. If this does not rise to handing down the death penalty, it is hard to imagine one that would.
 
The WSJ reported earlier this week that the military would seek the death penalty.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125804778767245615.html

Hasan to Face Death Penalty

Military prosecutors plan to seek the death penalty for alleged Fort Hood shooter Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, who was formally charged Thursday with 13 counts of premeditated murder, according to a senior Army officer familiar with the matter.

The last execution of an active-duty serviceman took place in 1961.

Despite evidence that Maj. Hasan had contact with a radical Muslim cleric, the decision to file the murder charges against him in military court, rather than in a civilian one, reflects the Army's belief that the suspect acted alone and without any assistance from foreign or domestic terror groups.

Christopher Grey, a spokesman for the Army's Criminal Investigation Command, said military investigators believe Maj. Hasan was the sole gunman in the assault, which killed 13 people and wounded 43.

After interviewing hundreds of witnesses and examining material, including a computer taken from his apartment, investigators believe that he acted without the knowledge or guidance of any terror groups, Army officials and others familiar with the probe said.

Military prosecutors intend to seek the death penalty for alleged Fort Hood shooter Nidal Hasan. WSJ's Military Correspondent Yochi Dreazen joins The News Hub with details.

An Army official said in a separate interview that military prosecutors will seek to have Maj. Hasan put to death by lethal injection. "Given the magnitude of this crime, it's the only punishment that should even be considered," the officer said.

The murder charges against Maj. Hasan come as investigators ramp up their efforts to determine if warning signs were missed that could have helped prevent the shootings.

President Barack Obama ordered a governmentwide investigation into whether federal agencies, including the Pentagon and the U.S. intelligence community, properly shared the information about Maj. Hasan collected before last week's shooting.

Mr. Obama asked the heads of the Defense Department, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and U.S. intelligence agencies to conduct the inquiry during a White House meeting the day after the shooting, according to an administration official. Mr. Obama formalized the directive in a presidential memorandum Thursday.

The White House official wouldn't say whether Maj. Hasan's links to a radical imam in Yemen prompted the review. But the day after the shooting, Mr. Obama was shown copies of some of the emails the alleged shooter sent to the imam, Anwar al-Awlaki, and ordered the review the following morning.

The National Security Agency intercepted 10 to 20 communications over the past year between Maj. Hasan and Mr. Awlaki, who knew three of the Sept. 11 hijackers and hailed Maj. Hasan as a "hero" after the shootings.

The emails between Maj. Hasan and Mr. Awlaki were intercepted in a separate sweep that didn't target Maj. Hasan. Terrorism investigators assigned to an FBI joint terrorism task force, which included a Defense Department investigator, reviewed the communications but concluded the contacts didn't merit further investigation.

A person familiar with the investigation said Mr. Awlaki's responses to Mr. Hasan appeared restrained and perhaps indicated the imam was suspicious about why an Army officer was reaching out to him.

The terrorism investigators concluded that Maj. Hasan's research work as an Army psychiatrist at Walter Reed Army Medical Center and his work toward a master's degree explained why he was communicating with Mr. Awlaki.

The Pentagon wasn't informed about the emails until after Maj. Hasan's alleged shootings at Fort Hood, a senior defense official said earlier this week.

John P. Galligan, the retired colonel hired to defend Maj. Hasan, said he believed an officer delivered a charge sheet to the major Thursday at Brooke Army Medical Center at Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio, where he is being held under guard. But Mr Galligan couldn't provide details, saying he wasn't there, hadn't been notified in advance and still hadn't seen the charges as of late Thursday afternoon. He learned about the charges from a news conference the Army held Thursday that was broadcast on TV.

"I feel blindsided," Mr. Galligan said. "Had I known, I certainly would have been down there."

The Senate Homeland Security Committee will be conducting its own investigation into the government's handling of Maj. Hasan in the run-up to the attacks. The first Senate hearings will take place Wednesday.

The sprawling Walter Reed medical center in suburban Washington is emerging as a main focus of the investigation, with some officials questioning whether hospital authorities should have done more to alert law-enforcement personnel that some of Maj. Hasan's colleagues there harbored deep suspicions about him and wondered about his mental state.

Maj. Hasan did his psychiatric residency at Walter Reed and spent more than six years there. In the days since the shootings, some of his former colleagues have said that Maj. Hasan performed substandard work and occasionally expressed Islamist views they found alarming.

Dr. S. Ward Casscells III, a retired Army colonel, supervised the military medical system as assistant secretary of defense for health affairs during the last years of the George W. Bush administration, when Maj. Hasan was a resident at Walter Reed.

After the Fort Hood shooting, Dr. Casscells spoke to two Walter Reed doctors about Maj. Hasan's tenure there.

"They said he was strange and not very happy as a psychiatrist -- not doing very well and not flagrantly failing either," said Dr. Casscells, who didn't know Maj. Hasan himself. "People weren't sending him patients and that must have made him feel bad professionally."

The physicians told Dr. Casscells that Maj. Hasan's personality was "that of a loner" and that the psychiatrist was "given to anger at times." They didn't mention any concerns about Maj. Hasan's religious views.

The Army's intent to seek the death penalty in the Hasan case will likely set off years of legal wrangling. No active-duty troops have been executed in nearly 50 years, and defendants in military death-penalty cases can appeal their convictions in a series of military and civilian courts, including the U.S. Supreme Court.

Even if a ruling is fully upheld, the president has to personally approve an order to carry out the execution, further slowing the process, according to Eugene R. Fidell, an expert on the military justice system at Yale Law School.

In a notorious recent case, Army Sgt. Hasan Akbar was sentenced to death in a court-martial for rolling a grenade into a tent filled with U.S. soldiers in Kuwait in April 2003. Four years after he was sentenced to death, his case is still stalled at the first appellate level of the courts.

—Ben Casselman, Michael M. Phillips and Russell Gold contributed to this article.

Write to Yochi J. Dreazen at yochi.dreazen@wsj.com, Peter Spiegel at peter.spiegel@wsj.com and Evan Perez at evan.perez@wsj.com

 
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Do you think if he is given the death penalty it will actually be carried out? I meant "face" in the sense that it won't likely be carried out, not that it wouldn't be handed down in a court martial.
In this case, I think so. As the above article states though, it will take awhile.
Also can I ask...can his lawyer get this to a civilian court now or after a court martial or because he committed this on base is his only option to be given a court martial?
Court-Martial isn't the only option but it's the one that makes sense. ETA: his attorney could file a motion arguing for a change of venue based on numerous factors, bias especially - if they can show the Judge that he can't receive a fair trial at Fort Hood, the Judge might grant it.
Also in my experience court martials are pretty quick in both proximity to the actual event happening, and in time in actual court time. I remember a murder case in Germany with a lot of variables and it went to a court martial 6 months after the incident, and was done in 4 days. In your experience in the most serious cases, how long until this goes to trial?
Yes, they are pretty quick. Some serious cases take longer than others, in some the evidence is pretty straight forward and the delays are tactical and due to logistics. In others, the evidence isn't clear cut until you have a team analyze it, labs can take awhile. Here, the evidence is pretty straight forward so I won't be surprised if we have a conviction by May.
How long do you think a trail like this would take? Any pre-trial manuevering by the defense here to make this a non-death penalty case? Insanity plea? If so could that plea determine whether they seek the death penalty?
Defense wouldn't be doing their job, unless of course he wants the death penalty, if they didn't make the necessary motions. I'd count on a sanity board being convened sometime in the next few months. The board would resolve the insanity plea, assuming it comes back "sane", there's no impact on the sentence. It's just handled differently in the Military. If he pleas and the Government accepts the plea, the only reason would be to remove the death sentence from the table, I assume the Commanding General won't accept that ahead of trial. He could plea "naked" meaning without the benefit of a deal / sentence cap, sometimes happens if the defense wants something the Government would accept or the defense believes the Judge will be even lighter because of the lack of a deal. I'm in that situation right now, there's no way the Government gives the defense what they want, but the conviction is almost automatic so they plea and hope the judge is lenient.
 
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Good stuff FUBAR, glad we have an insider who understands this process and to make sense of it for the rest of us.

 
Just witnessed the funeral for Sgt. Krueger here in Kiel. The visitation was done at the local high school with up to four-thousand expected to come from a town that has 3,400 residents. On her way out, the streets were lined with young and old giving their final salute. Very sobering.

 
Doctor Detroit said:
Good stuff FUBAR, glad we have an insider who understands this process and to make sense of it for the rest of us.
I would think that even though he was on US gov't property the discussion whether to prosecute under USCOMJ or a civilian court would be made pretty high up the military/civilian chain of command?
 
Doctor Detroit said:
Locally here (we often work where he is hospitalized) we found out that Hasan was paralyzed from the waist down
So not only will the guy probably not get the death penalty, someone is going to have the fantastic job of wiping his ### 3 times a day.
 
Doctor Detroit said:
Locally here (we often work where he is hospitalized) we found out that Hasan was paralyzed from the waist down
So not only will the guy probably not get the death penalty, someone is going to have the fantastic job of wiping his ### 3 times a day.
I vote for letting him rot in his own crap.
 
Doctor Detroit said:
Locally here (we often work where he is hospitalized) we found out that Hasan was paralyzed from the waist down
So not only will the guy probably not get the death penalty, someone is going to have the fantastic job of wiping his ### 3 times a day.
I vote for letting him rot in his own crap.
I rather him rot in some other person's crap. Because you can handle your own crap but somebody else's crap is just gross.
 
When stereotyping goes wrong . . .

Marine reservist attacked Greek priest he mistook for terrorist

By Alexandra Zayas and Demorris A. Lee

November 11, 2009

A Marine reservist armed with a tire iron beat and chased a man he thought was an Arab terrorist and even called 911 to say he was detaining the man, police said.

But the man he assaulted was actually a Greek Orthodox priest visiting from overseas who spoke limited English, police said.

That’s why police arrested reservist Jasen D. Bruce on a charge of aggravated battery with a deadly weapon.

Police said they’re also investigating whether Bruce, 28, committed a hate crime.

The incident took place around 6:35 p.m. Monday, police said. The priest, Alexios Marakis, 29, is from Crete, Greece. He is visiting St. Nicholas Greek Cathedral at 17 E Tarpon Ave. but police said he was in the Westshore area to bless another retired Greek priest.

But Marakis apparently got lost and exited northbound Interstate 275 into downtown Tampa, police said.

The priest followed several cars into the Seaport Channelside Apartments on Twiggs Street. He got out of his car and asked Bruce for help.

Instead of offering help, Bruce struck the priest on the head with a tire iron, police said.

He then chased the priest for three blocks to the Madison Avenue and Meridian Avenue, police said, and even called 911 to say that an Arabic man tried to rob him.

Bruce said he was going to take the Arab into custody. When police arrived, Bruce told them the victim was a terrorist.

The priest was taken to Tampa General Hospital. There, a translator helped Marakis speak to police.
 
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Congress will in fact hold hearings into shootings earlier this month at the Army's Fort Hood in Texas, Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) said Sunday.

Leahy, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, said he's likely to press forward with an investigation into the rampage, breaking with President Barack Obama's request that Congress hold off on any probe into the shootings.

"The fact of the matter is that there will be congressional investigations," Leahy said during an appearance on CBS's "Face the Nation."

"I think we have to do it carefully in a way that we don't interfere with the prosecution," he added, "Obviously in Congress we have a reason for oversight."

Many lawmakers have been clamoring for an investigation into Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan's alleged murder of 13 people at the Army base several weeks ago.

Republicans in particular have been critical of President Barack Obama and his administration for not having heeded some existing intelligence before the shooting suggesting Hasan was a security risk.

In his weekly radio address on Saturday, Obama said lawmakers should "resist the temptation to turn this tragic event into the political theater," and hold off on a congressional inquiry in order to let prosecutors do their job.

"The stakes are far too high," the president said.

Leahy suggested that the inquiry into the Ft. Hood shootings would begin, at least informally, as early as this week, when Attorney General Eric Holder testifies before the Judiciary committee.

"The attorney general will be before the Judiciary Committee on Wednesday," Leahy said. "I fully expect that he'll be asked a number of questions about this."

"Ultimately we should know where mistakes were made...for the sole purpose of making sure those mistakes aren't made again," the senior Democrat added.

 

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