theglorydays
Footballguy
From Yahoo..."The back problems Jackson is experiencing are reportedly being caused by a herniated disc, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports."
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Steven Jackson herniated disc (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter theglorydays
- Start date
theglorydays
Footballguy
Thoughts from SJAX owners? Here is the full note under Jackson's name from yahoo...Sun, Dec 13
The back problems Jackson is experiencing are reportedly being caused by a herniated disc, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports.
Recommendation: The report adds that while Jackson probably won't need surgery after the season, he might not be able to practice again this year. As for his status for this Sunday, we'll provide an update as kickoff approaches.
(Rotowire.com)
It sounds like it isn't going to stop him from playing, but he obviously isn't 100%. My gut told me to bench him last week but i couldn't bring myself to do it.
The back problems Jackson is experiencing are reportedly being caused by a herniated disc, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports.
Recommendation: The report adds that while Jackson probably won't need surgery after the season, he might not be able to practice again this year. As for his status for this Sunday, we'll provide an update as kickoff approaches.
(Rotowire.com)
It sounds like it isn't going to stop him from playing, but he obviously isn't 100%. My gut told me to bench him last week but i couldn't bring myself to do it.
MCguidance
Footballguy
They knew this before he trotted out there this week. I don't see him practicing for the rest of the year, but I think he will play it out as long as he can stand the pain.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
My back has been screwed up for a couple of weeks now and I have been in agony. How the hell Jackson can get 20+ touches in a NFL game with disk problems is beyond me. The guy is tough.
Dragon1952
Footballguy
Why they leave him out there when they are getting blown out is my question. Last week down by 40 with 6 minutes to play and he's still out there. In fact, what's the sense of playing him at all anymore. You've won 1 game, why risk a career ending injury.
kaa
Footballguy
I imagine lots of painkillers. He can just stay heavily medicated all week - its not like he has to practice.
zamboni
Footballguy
I was thinking the same thing. S-Jax has his 1000 yards plus a likely Pro Bowl berth. I understand the team wanting to end the season on a positive note, but there's really not much sense in risking more longer-term damage.
Balco
Footballguy
Agreed. Keith Null was the starting qb for the Rams last week!! Shut Jackson down (although that pains me to say as a SJax owner), and let him rest and rehab for next season.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Why not shut Calvin down for the rest of the year? Why not Stafford? Why not Winslow and Freeman....save them for next year? Why not any team that is out of the playoffs?
Because they are paid salaries and fans paid money for tickets to see the players play. You simply don't sit guys just because they have nothing to play for UNLESS the injury he's playing with is at risk to worsen by being out there. If that were the case, then he wouldn't suit up at all. And I can assure you, he's been evaluated and deemed healthy enough to play even if he has an active injury that might be painful.
You don't just "shut players down" just to shut them down. Guaranteed that if his particular injury was at risk to be worsened from playing, he wouldn't be out there.
Because they are paid salaries and fans paid money for tickets to see the players play. You simply don't sit guys just because they have nothing to play for UNLESS the injury he's playing with is at risk to worsen by being out there. If that were the case, then he wouldn't suit up at all. And I can assure you, he's been evaluated and deemed healthy enough to play even if he has an active injury that might be painful.
You don't just "shut players down" just to shut them down. Guaranteed that if his particular injury was at risk to be worsened from playing, he wouldn't be out there.
Balco
Footballguy
Steven Jackson has a herniated disc in his back. The guy can't practice all week. I can pretty much guarantee you he is taking painkillers, probably cortisone to go out there each Sunday. He needs to be shut down. My guess is he will be shortly.
Playing with a herniated disk does not necessarily put a player at risk for a more significant injury. Some people have herniated disks and do not even know it. Without knowing the particulars of the case, your medical opinion really has little validity...
I don't own Steven Jackson in any league... but if your committed to building your team around a certain player and you know your season is all but over, shut him down. Your risking serious injury, he's playing in pain, no reason to get the guy seriously injured. You have Null starting at QB, Brandon Gibson is your #1 receiver... see what else you have at RB and evaluate the future.
Edit for my opinion: These are the type of situations where you put unnecessary miles on your marquee RB. If you want to build a winning team, you want fresh legs at your skill positions. Why bang the guy up? Go in the draft, make your moves, you have a RB with just as many miles under the hood as the body shows. This way when your built to win, you still have Sjax in his prime. Running him into the ground is just going to make you spend a higher draft pick on a RB down the road when all you had to do is realize when to fold.
Edit for my opinion: These are the type of situations where you put unnecessary miles on your marquee RB. If you want to build a winning team, you want fresh legs at your skill positions. Why bang the guy up? Go in the draft, make your moves, you have a RB with just as many miles under the hood as the body shows. This way when your built to win, you still have Sjax in his prime. Running him into the ground is just going to make you spend a higher draft pick on a RB down the road when all you had to do is realize when to fold.
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Casper from Kids
Footballguy
Lots of Doctors and NFL owners in this thread.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Hoss_Cartwright
Footballguy
Would you start any one of Britt, Nicks, or Avant over Jackson next Sunday in a non-PPR league?
gianmarco
Footballguy
Why not shut him down in week 8 when they were eliminated from playoffs? Why is Calvin Johnson out on the field in week 13? Why risk serious injury to him? Why are DeAngelo and Stewart out on the field for a 5-8 team? Their season is over and you're putting "unnecessary miles" on them. Why don't all teams out of contention just sit all their starters? Once again, unless it's an injury that's at risk to get worse by playing with future implications, then most teams simply aren't going to "shut down" their starters. If he can play through the pain and wants to and isn't at risk for serious injury by playing (which a herniated disk is not), then I doubt SJax doesn't finish the year.
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doowain
Footballguy
djmich
Footballguy
i knew this wasnt far enough outi think the "shut him down" voices are just sjax owners compensating for guilt over their own inner "tough it out so i can win my playoff game" monologues
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
I'm no expert, but I don't think the nature of the injury is one that bears that sort of consideration. A herniated disc won't get better or heal if he were to go on IR. His pain might just lessen. And the risk of additional injury will be there with every single carry he has for the rest of his career, regardless of his pain symptoms. And it will likely grow progressively worse as he ages. So it's not a 2009 issue. It's a career long issue. It actually affects my dynasty evaluation of him going forward. Back problems like this, once they start, will continually crop up. So I think this will be the norm for Jackson going forward. Some weeks will be better than others, but this is the kind of problem that doesn't just go away.Unfortunately, surgery may help, but it also might not and could actually make the situatin worse. Back surgeries are rarely a one off proposition.
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
Realistically, the Rams are a couple of seasons away from being "built to win". And over those years, Jackson's back pain, absent a successful surgical correction, will get worse and the damage is likely degenerative. He can play with the pain depending on his pain threshold and how well meds can control it. But hopes of saving Jackson for a season or two so he's "fresh" when they are finally built to win is not going to happen. He doesn't have a shelf-life like that.Unfortunately for him, his prime is spent on a team that sucks. Unfortunately for him, he has a back injury that in most cases is degenerative as time goes on and just gets worse and could shorten his prime window.
Restricted
Footballguy
Not scared of the disc as much as Null starting again. Really considering sitting him this week.
You are making way too much sense to be posting in this thread.
Or be making decisions for the Rams personnel office
MCguidance
Footballguy
I wouldn't.
Hurl Bruce
Footballguy
I think the Null factor along with Buchalter being hurt will lead me to starting Moreno this week.
This is an interesting thread. I may have missed this above, but what precedents have we seen with RBs playing with this type of injury. What are some real life "case studies" that illustrate how this injury may affect performance.
My sense is that SJax's effort is going to be there no matter what. This whole year he has been a bit of a warrior even though dinged up. But, I don't know what physical limitations there are.
Any insights on this, re: case studies of other players to go through this?
M
PS...I'm getting ready for my second round FFL Playoff game and if I sit SJAX, it would be for Forsett, who is dangerous with a decent match up but also a "part timer" so I'm going to really need to see a lot of discouraging news on SJAX before sitting him unfortunately...
My sense is that SJax's effort is going to be there no matter what. This whole year he has been a bit of a warrior even though dinged up. But, I don't know what physical limitations there are.
Any insights on this, re: case studies of other players to go through this?
M
PS...I'm getting ready for my second round FFL Playoff game and if I sit SJAX, it would be for Forsett, who is dangerous with a decent match up but also a "part timer" so I'm going to really need to see a lot of discouraging news on SJAX before sitting him unfortunately...
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
Somethings wrong with your nuts then.
IronMen
Footballguy
Big time nut problem.I have a bulging disc right now...for the past few years and no issues (golf not football)other than the sight of it scares the hell out of me.
az_prof
Footballguy
Exactly. He is going to need surgery--herniated disks don't heal on their own. They should get him the surgery now so he has more time to recover for next year and so that he does less damage. FYI, I am not convinced he is going to play much more despite what they say. Many people can't even stand staight or walk with a herniated disk.
ATC1
Footballguy
A lot of people can have disk problems, but be symptom free because it doesn't hit a nerve. It all depends on the nerve root impingment from the disks. Because he is able to play tells me he has some back soreness, but it's not prohiting him from playing. Probably had an MRI, that showed disk problems, but no nerve involvement. If he was having numbness, tingling or weakness in his legs, no way would he be able to play. Those people need the surgery. If those symptoms are not there there is an 80% chance of recovery without surgery.
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CravenM
Footballguy
Don't judge me!
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
What do you mean by "recovery"? Do you mean that his herniation will heal on its own? Or are you saying he has an 80% chance of being non-symptomatic without surgery?Just seems that "recovery" equates to "fixed" in most people's mind. A herniated disc doesn't heal or repair on it's own from what I've been told. His symptoms (pain) may be controlled with some rest or pain meds, but the underlying injury is still present and just waiting to flare up again...something likely to happen as long as he keeps doing what is causing his present flare-up...which is playing football. I wouldn't call the alleviation of pain absent a correction of the injury a recovery, but instead learning to live with it and engaging in "pain management".ATC1 said:
Not picking a fight, I'm just trying to flesh this out and learn something.
ATC1
Footballguy
I don't think he is having as bad of symptoms as we are making it out to be. Carnell Williams and Matt Haselbeck have both reported disk problems, but has not had surgery. I would think that NFL doctors would make him rest in a lost season if he was in some serious pain or had any indication of nerve impingement. Truth is that SJax could of had the disk herniation for years and not even know it.
Dragon1952
Footballguy
OK...so what about leaving him in there in a 47-7 blowout, late in the 4th Q? As for shutting him down, Week 14 is a little different than the Week 8 scenario. Also, it appears to be bothering him more now than it was then, and with Noll in there it looks like they are teeing off on him (2.5 ypc vs Tennessee). Also, I would think it's possible that a herniated disk could alter the way you run, i.e. compensate for it in a way that could make a different injury or ailment possible or more likely? Especially as the game wears on. At least lighten his load a little.
Pooh Tong and Nemo
Footballguy
I have a bulging di.....My bad, wrong thread
gianmarco
Footballguy
Taking him out late in the 4th qtr in a blowout is one thing. Shutting him down for the season is another. I agree he shouldn't have been in that late. But that's not what some are claiming. As for bothering him more, IIRC, he's been missing practices for a few weeks now. I highly doubt he just herniated his disc this past week although it's possible. As for altering the way he runs, I doubt it. It's just a matter of pain tolerance. It shouldn't change it so much that it alters how he runs.
MCguidance
Footballguy
Really? Wow, good for you.RICK ROMO said:
thecardiackid
Footballguy
I don't know much about the Rams O line personnel, but this can't help SJax's cause.
St. Louis Rams 12/15 Richie Incognito (G) cut. (from NFL.com transactions page)
Cut? Wasnt this guy starting? iirc he's always getting in fights (from the few stl games i've watched)
anyone?
St. Louis Rams 12/15 Richie Incognito (G) cut. (from NFL.com transactions page)
Cut? Wasnt this guy starting? iirc he's always getting in fights (from the few stl games i've watched)
anyone?
Inspiration
Footballguy
The Rams lost Jacob Bell for the remainder of the season as well.
az_prof
Footballguy
If that 80% were NFL players it might mean something, but I wonder how many of those 80% play a violent sport where they slam their body into other huge players 20 times or more? The stress of playing RB on a back has to be tremendous--I just don't see how anyone could do it for long with a herniated disk. Would be interested in hearing about some players who have played with this condition for an extended period of time because I can't think of any.
I think what folks are missing here is that not all disk herniations are equal. Many people have this issue and have no symptoms at all. No one in this thread really knows the degree of SJax's injury but it would seem there is no nerve impingement. Disk injuries are often treated without surgery and often surgery is of no more benefit then conservative treatment. To be honest I have not heard of spinal surgery for a disk herniation being done in hopes of extending a players career as some in this thread seem to think should be done. Are there any orthopods out there. It seems like most surgeons in this thread thus far have stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.
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Bermuda_Chub
Footballguy
Incognito was pulled out of the Tennessee game at some point, and was caught on camera on the sidelines being blatantly disrespectful to Coach Spagnuolo. No doubt that was the final straw.
With his talent level, the reward is always possible.Any play could be a long touchdown. It wouldn't surprise if he does break one. Who knows maybe even two.
But your also correct that there is considerable risk to starting him.
Edit* I thought you were talking risk/reward from a fantasy perspective. I guess you meant a real football perspective. I guess the reward is a win.
"You play to win the game."
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