The Curious Case of Eric Bieniemy (2 Viewers)

[ignatiusjreilly]

But the issue is Dan Quinn fired him.

That's not the issue. Bienemy had no reason to expect to keep his job, and he knew that. There were no stories about Washington stopping him from interviewing anywhere. He was under contract, WAS maybe even figured he was a emergency choice at HC.

Not sure why you think Quinn letting him go is a scandal.

Who said it's a scandal?
I've been defending you in here because I think there is merit to some of your POV

-D.C. should have had the stones to cut him with Rivera, EB should have had the stones to resign and start interviewing all over the place.
I'm sure EB is going to land on his feet, many teams can create positions which is how I feel about the "Asst Head Coach" position which is a made up spot on the staff
Not all 32 NFL teams have that designation on their coaching staff.

This makes no sense. The owner fired Rivera after the season, then replaced him with Quinn. Quinn came in and within a few days decided he wanted a different OC. I'm sure EB saw that coming, but maybe he was hoping Quinn would keep him as OC. Or maybe he wasn't getting interviews elsewhere.

I'm not sure what you think Quinn should have done. Or is your beef with Harris for not firing EB on Black Monday?

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

When a guy gets passed over for a year or two, I'm open to the suggestion that perhaps a few teams are misjudging a guy. When that same guy is passed over year after year after year, despite what looks like a wonderful resume, I assume there's an excellent reason why he's being passed over. As another poster noted, teams do background checks, and not the $50 variety offered by some online vendor. There's a very high likelihood that they know what they're doing and people posting on a message board don't.

This is where I am. The first year or two, I wondered what was going on, and also whether race was playing a role. (If anyone wants to call that "playing the race card", go ahead. The NFL's hiring process is far from a pure meritocracy, and there's a long history of minority candidates being judged by a different standard and failing to get the same opportunities.) It seemed especially weird that his two predecessors in KC immediately got snapped up but he didn't, even though the offense had performed much better under him, and also that the "He just carries the QB's jockstrap" argument hadn't stopped McDaniels or Gase from getting hired.

But at this point it's I feel like he's had his chances -- whether in interviews or in his one-year audition as Washington's play caller -- and hasn't made the most of them. It could be that race is still playing some role, but I also find it increasingly hard to believe that it's the primary thing holding him back

 

[doeseatplace]

RG III.on twitter
Eric Bieniemy not being a Head Coach after 2 Super Bowls and 7 straight AFC West titles in Kansas City is STILL BAFFLING. Then he got Charlie Brown’d by people saying he needed to run his own offense and goes to a Washington staff on its last breath. He should have never left KC.

RG3 is a guy people should never listen to. He sounds smarter than he is. Listen to what he says rather than the polished way he says it. It's pretty obvious he is looking for conflict and pushes made up agendas. He's right EB made a mistake coming to WAS.

If Super Bob’s arm was even 1/2 as massive as his pathetic need for constant attention, he’d be a first ballot hall of famer

 

[Ministry of Pain]

-D.C. should have had the stones to cut him with Rivera, EB should have had the stones to resign and start interviewing all over the place.
I'm sure EB is going to land on his feet, many teams can create positions which is how I feel about the "Asst Head Coach" position which is a made up spot on the staff
Not all 32 NFL teams have that designation on their coaching staff.

MoP--As I understand it, Bienemy was the only Commander assistant coach under contract for the 2024 season; all the other assistants' contracts run through the end of the league year. So I think those guys may actually still be around Ashburn/Redskins Park (or could be). It's possible that any one of them could have been retained, but highly unlikely. Eric Bienemy has been around long enough to know he was in the same boat, contract status non-withstanding. That's why its so curious he didn't get any interviews for HC or coordinator...hard to imagine that the team would block him. It solves everyone's issue if he's hired away from a team that really doesn't want him anymore

I have no opinion one way or the other on him (besides cursing Chris Berman for permanently lodging that stupid nickname in my head), but can't help but reflect on the Commander's offensive stats against the woeful Giants: 13 points per game, 338 ypg, 7 total turnovers and 10 sacks allowed.

Taking out games vs. Washington, the Giants defense averaged 25 ppg against, 365 ypg against and generated a total of 24 turnovers and 24 (!) sacks.

Wink Martindale runs a pretty predictable defense, and seemingly Bienemy was one of the few OCs who couldn't figure it out, even after seeing it once.

Neither he, nor Rivera or anyone else associated with that pathetic franchise was put in a good position to win. But unfortunately Bienemy's performance was unable to overcome that challenge and change what appears to be a league-wide narrative about his capabilities.

 

[FarFromHome]

My guess is he just interviews horribly. Maybe shows up shirtless and shouts every answer.

Immediately thought of Step Brothers...shut up, shut up, can you shut your mouth for a second?

Bwahhahaha. What a wonderful movie reference in regards to job interviews.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I went to school at CU from 1988 to 1992 and Eric Bieniemy was our star RB that helped us to the National Championship. Didn't know him but everyone knew EB as he'd run with our FB George Hemmingway around campus without their shirts and both were ripped. Everyone knew and loved EB so I followed his career as an NFL RB to an NFL assistant to and NFL OC. He had success along the way.
I stopped following CU football when the Katie Hnida case came to light. It sickened me to the point I just stopped following CU football till Prime made a splash.
NFL coaching opportunities come rarely and only to the most qualified candidates; it is not a beauty contest.
Winning is the only thing that matters.
EB is qualified, it is not a beauty contest, give him a chance before canceling him and if you don't 'like him'' but he can do the job then tough cookies. Suck it up buttercup and let the best candidate get a chance because he's done enough for a chance.

 

[need2know]

I went to school at CU from 1988 to 1992 and Eric Bieniemy was our star RB that helped us to the National Championship. Didn't know him but everyone knew EB as he'd run with our FB George Hemmingway around campus without their shirts and both were ripped. Everyone knew and loved EB so I followed his career as an NFL RB to an NFL assistant to and NFL OC. He had success along the way.
I stopped following CU football when the Katie Hnida case came to light. It sickened me to the point I just stopped following CU football till Prime made a splash.
NFL coaching opportunities come rarely and only to the most qualified candidates; it is not a beauty contest.
Winning is the only thing that matters.
EB is qualified, it is not a beauty contest, give him a chance before canceling him and if you don't 'like him'' but he can do the job then tough cookies. Suck it up buttercup and let the best candidate get a chance because he's done enough for a chance.

hes gotten multiple interviews and they have all gone poorly. reports say he comes off as a giant butt hole. no one has to hire him as a head coach because some think hes 'earned' it.

 

[need2know]

My guess is he just interviews horribly. Maybe shows up shirtless and shouts every answer.

Immediately thought of Step Brothers...shut up, shut up, can you shut your mouth for a second?

Bwahhahaha. What a wonderful movie reference in regards to job interviews.

Step Brothers - Interview

Brennan Huff, a sporadically employed thirty-nine-year-old who lives with his mother, Nancy. Dale Doback, a terminally unemployed forty-year-old who lives wi...

www.youtube.com

 

[Ghost Rider]

Unless you are looking to play a certain card, there is nothing curious about it. His history is there for all to see.

 

[Summer Wheat]

Bienemy is abrasive. People don't like working with abrasive in any industry.

Bienemy needs to look in the mirror.

Ever hear of an NFL head coach called Bill Belichick?

The guy that couldn't win without Brady and currently finds himself without a job?

Sounds kinda like Bienemy without Mahomes.

If Washington did not want him after a year on staff and getting to know him and observe him first hand there is an issue.

Working on a staff for a year, showing what you are about as a coach in person is a much better interview than sitting in a room talking for 2 hours.

But the issue is Dan Quinn fired him.
You think you might be a HC candidate and then the next thing is the guy that interviewed and is hired walks right in and fires you
I also feel like EB was incredibly naive to think he was staying on with D.C.

No surprise, New HCs usually want their own staff and EB did not have a good year as play caller. New owners knew that and let Quinn do their dirty work though.

 

[Summer Wheat]

RG III.on twitter
Eric Bieniemy not being a Head Coach after 2 Super Bowls and 7 straight AFC West titles in Kansas City is STILL BAFFLING. Then he got Charlie Brown’d by people saying he needed to run his own offense and goes to a Washington staff on its last breath. He should have never left KC.

RG3 is a guy people should never listen to. He sounds smarter than he is. Listen to what he says rather than the polished way he says it. It's pretty obvious he is looking for conflict and pushes made up agendas. He's right EB made a mistake coming to WAS. But that's on EB.

I have no idea why EB hasn't gotten more looks. But he has gotten looks, and they've passed on him. And he did poorly in WAS.

WAS maybe should have fired him with Ron. But what if all the OCs were taken? Or the HC they picked had a relationship with EB? It's what comes with signing a multi-year contract. EB had no say in the matter.

I have listened to Griffin call games, he never sounds smart.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

Disagree. RG3 does sound smart and likely is. He's got a polished look. He's articulate. He graduated in 3 years with a real degree. He pursued a masters before going to the NFL. he easily reinvented himself after a failed playing career. His Heismann speech was excellent. But what he says is a turn off to me, and was to his teammates and coaches. It smacks of self-importance and is usually said to get reactions that overshadow the point.

My guess is EB sits a year or is an offensive consultant. Then snags a OC job next offseason. Plenty will be open.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

I was wondering how long it would be before someone would insinuate the reason EB didn't get hired was because he was black - in a year where half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities.

I’m sure some desperately want to play the race card, but as you said, “half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities “. So, there has to be something about him that rubs teams the wrong way and the color of his skin isn’t it.

Im curious, how many of the head coaches, OC, and DC are minorities? What percentage are you happy with?

Plus as I have come to lean, if teams hire a minority candidate as an Asst or OC/DC and they move on and become a head coach, the team that hired him as the assistant, they get at least 1 extra draft pick, not sure if that's a 3rd, 4th, etc but the incentive is there to hire them and be rewarded.
There is a flip side to this coin which I'm not going to start discussing but if I were an NFL owner I would want to take advantage of this NFL guideline or rule.
If you have 2 candidates, both well qualified and you like both of them but one is a minority that you stand to gain a draft pick in a season or two, what would you do?

No offense but offering draft picks for minority hires is dumb and discriminating. Best person for the job should always be the focus. I don’t have the stats but it seems to me there has been a lot of minority hires in the NFL.

Merit is certainly warranted, but as of the 2023 season, less than 20% of NFL head coaches are non-white. That's concerning in a league where men of color make up 75% of the player pool. The Rooney rule has been in place for 20 years now and the league is finally starting to get traction that, yes, non-whites can actually coach.

 

[GregR]

I was wondering how long it would be before someone would insinuate the reason EB didn't get hired was because he was black - in a year where half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities.

I’m sure some desperately want to play the race card, but as you said, “half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities “. So, there has to be something about him that rubs teams the wrong way and the color of his skin isn’t it.

Im curious, how many of the head coaches, OC, and DC are minorities? What percentage are you happy with?

Plus as I have come to lean, if teams hire a minority candidate as an Asst or OC/DC and they move on and become a head coach, the team that hired him as the assistant, they get at least 1 extra draft pick, not sure if that's a 3rd, 4th, etc but the incentive is there to hire them and be rewarded.
There is a flip side to this coin which I'm not going to start discussing but if I were an NFL owner I would want to take advantage of this NFL guideline or rule.
If you have 2 candidates, both well qualified and you like both of them but one is a minority that you stand to gain a draft pick in a season or two, what would you do?

No offense but offering draft picks for minority hires is dumb and discriminating. Best person for the job should always be the focus. I don’t have the stats but it seems to me there has been a lot of minority hires in the NFL.

So those stats you don't have showed the NFL's hiring patterns were still abysmal in 2020, the year they made that draft pick rule to try to improve things.

At that point in time, 12.5% of head coaches were minority compared to 75% of players.

In the previous 9 years (2012-2020):
* 9 out of 55 HC hires were minority (16%).
* 9 out 106 OC hires were minority (8%). (Yes, 8%).
* 33 out of 86 DC hires were minority (38%).

That's 22% of coordinators combined.

The coordinator positions, and that really horrendous OC ratio in particular, are much more likely to have the existing bias reduced if teams see a potential benefit in the form of draft picks by giving consideration to minority candidates who, according to those stats, weren't getting equal consideration before.

So has it helped? Yes it has. Some. From 2019 to 2023 (which unfortunately extends to before the 2020 change):
* 7 out of 27 HC hires were minority (26%)
* 9 out of 54 OC hires were minority (17%)
* 24 of 49 DC hires were minority (49%).

That's 32% of coordinators combined.

All of the top 3 levels of coaching minority hire rates increased by around 10% compared to the previous data set. And that includes some overlap with 2019 and 2020 in both sets, so potentially the amount of improvement directly related to the rule might be more. Plus the more OCs there are in the pipeline the more that will impact HC hire stats, but there will probably be some lag for them to establish themselves and get into the HC interview cycles.

I mean that's still pretty abysmal compared to the ratio of people with NFL experience. And still suggests there's bias at play. But it's improving drastically versus doing nothing and thinking people are racially blind and don't have, at the least, unconscious bias that impacts hirings.

 

[pinkstapler]

All I really have to contribute here is that this guy helped create one of my favorite "Boomer-isms" ever: Eric sleeping with Bieniemy.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

All I really have to contribute here is that this guy might have contributed to one of my favorite "Boomer-isms" ever: Eric sleeping with Bieniemy.

That one and his Flintstones version of Jonathan Vilma.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

It has to be at least a little gratifying that Demeco Ryans is an apparent successful hire for a franchise that not long ago had the owner insensitivity remarking "we can't have the inmates running the prison".

 

[Terpman22]

Wink Martindale, despite his successes, also isn't getting many opportunities. Basically for the same reasons.

These guys just rub people the wrong way and are difficult to work with. Its not any sort of conspiracy.

 

[ChiefD]

Bienenemy will be back with the Chiefs next year. Some sort of offensive assistant head coach or some such title. I remember reading an article about him a few years ago - during Covid.

His oldest son has cerebral palsy and some respiratory issues, and he was basically saying he has to keep working so he can have enough money to support him long term. So he will be somewhere in my opinion.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I moved to CO in the early 90's.....all I can say is that there may be more behind the scenes and in his past than is currently out there (CU stuff, etc.).....local radio kind of dances around it every time EB gets discussed after being passed up......guess I'm just saying there may be some things that us regular folks don't know that the people who need to know....know...not enough to keep you from being an assistant and helping us follow the Rooney Rule.....but enough to keep you from being the face of the franchise when push comes to shove...more digging would be done at that point.....

 

[zed2283]

I went to school at CU from 1988 to 1992 and Eric Bieniemy was our star RB that helped us to the National Championship. Didn't know him but everyone knew EB as he'd run with our FB George Hemmingway around campus without their shirts and both were ripped. Everyone knew and loved EB so I followed his career as an NFL RB to an NFL assistant to and NFL OC. He had success along the way.
I stopped following CU football when the Katie Hnida case came to light. It sickened me to the point I just stopped following CU football till Prime made a splash.
NFL coaching opportunities come rarely and only to the most qualified candidates; it is not a beauty contest.
Winning is the only thing that matters.
EB is qualified, it is not a beauty contest, give him a chance before canceling him and if you don't 'like him'' but he can do the job then tough cookies. Suck it up buttercup and let the best candidate get a chance because he's done enough for a chance.

Can you explain to me why the University of Colorado is called CU?

 

[abrunn1133]

I went to school at CU from 1988 to 1992 and Eric Bieniemy was our star RB that helped us to the National Championship. Didn't know him but everyone knew EB as he'd run with our FB George Hemmingway around campus without their shirts and both were ripped. Everyone knew and loved EB so I followed his career as an NFL RB to an NFL assistant to and NFL OC. He had success along the way.
I stopped following CU football when the Katie Hnida case came to light. It sickened me to the point I just stopped following CU football till Prime made a splash.
NFL coaching opportunities come rarely and only to the most qualified candidates; it is not a beauty contest.
Winning is the only thing that matters.
EB is qualified, it is not a beauty contest, give him a chance before canceling him and if you don't 'like him'' but he can do the job then tough cookies. Suck it up buttercup and let the best candidate get a chance because he's done enough for a chance.

Can you explain to me why the University of Colorado is called CU?

After that is explained, can someone explain why they rush the field after they beat unranked teams?

 

[JohnnyU]

I moved to CO in the early 90's.....all I can say is that there may be more behind the scenes and in his past than is currently out there (CU stuff, etc.).....local radio kind of dances around it every time EB gets discussed after being passed up......guess I'm just saying there may be some things that us regular folks don't know that the people who need to know....know...not enough to keep you from being an assistant and helping us follow the Rooney Rule.....but enough to keep you from being the face of the franchise when push comes to shove...more digging would be done at that point.....

Surmising is a bad thing

 

[menobrown]

Can't recall a team with a coach under contract do something like this. Anyone else?

The #chiefs had former OC Eric Bieniemy actually get up in front of the offense the day before the AFC Championship Game and speak to them and go through the install of a play. The inside scoop on EB’s visit and its impact. My report on
@nflnetwork

Eric Bieniemy was in the #chiefs meetings before the AFC title game and spent some time with some offensive players. Some players have said they’ve missed EB. Nice to see him spend some time with them.

 

[greenmountaingoat]

Curiouser and curioser

 

[Gawain]

Unless you are looking to play a certain card, there is nothing curious about it. His history is there for all to see.

My Grandmother was a died-in-the-wool Presbyterian. With parents that emigrated from England, she was inculcated in the Calvinist traditions and wore the anti-Catholicism of her ancestors on her sleeve. She would complain about JFK and the invisible Catholic cabal. The 1991 Orange Bowl finally opened my eleven year old eyes to the possibility that she might not be 100% there. Much to chagrin, I was watching the game with my Grandpa. My grandmother was making comments about the evils of Notre Dame, the inherent bias behind putting them on tv all the time and how those refs had been paid by the Pope to ensure the Irish won.

To support her argument, she claimed even the telecasters were biased and openly cheering for Notre Dame. **** Enberg was even saying the other team was the enemy. How could NBC so openly root for Notre Dame without being a front for the Catholic spread? Although I had learned it wasn't smart to talk back to this grandma, I felt like I had to point out that the Buffaloes weren't The Enemy, just that their running back was Bieniemy.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

My grandmother was making comments about the evils of Notre Dame, the inherent bias behind putting them on tv all the time and how those refs had been paid by the Pope to ensure the Irish won

LOL at the image of striped refs kneeling before the Pope while receiving their sacks of money.

 

[32 Counter Pass]

NFL coaching opportunities come rarely and only to the most qualified candidates; it is not a beauty contest.

Do they though? I think you giving the owners way too much credit. The people that have the money to buy an NFL team were very good at making money in another field. That does not necessarily translate to being good at owning an NFL. David Tepper is exhibit A.

Another example is that it was reported that Vrabell was passed over, in part, because he was so physically imposing.

I got no dog in this fight, but to suggest the most qualified candidates get hired is laughable. There are generally 6-8 openings every off season. So, no the most qualified are not always hired.

 

[Da Guru]

NFL coaching opportunities come rarely and only to the most qualified candidates; it is not a beauty contest.

Do they though? I think you giving the owners way too much credit. The people that have the money to buy an NFL team were very good at making money in another field. That does not necessarily translate to being good at owning an NFL. David Tepper is exhibit A.

Another example is that it was reported that Vrabell was passed over, in part, because he was so physically imposing.

I got no dog in this fight, but to suggest the most qualified candidates get hired is laughable. There are generally 6-8 openings every off season. So, no the most qualified are not always hired.

Sheila Ford is about 5-2 and 110 lbs. Yet she hired Dan Campbell who is 6-5 250.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

It has to be at least a little gratifying that Demeco Ryans is an apparent successful hire for a franchise that not long ago had the owner insensitivity remarking "we can't have the inmates running the prison".

I thought Demeco and Stroud were one of the best stories in the history of the NFL this season
They had NOTHING to do with anything that happened prior to their arrival, it was warm feeling all season watching the Texans
Bravo AD!

 

[BassNBrew]

I was wondering how long it would be before someone would insinuate the reason EB didn't get hired was because he was black - in a year where half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities.

I’m sure some desperately want to play the race card, but as you said, “half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities “. So, there has to be something about him that rubs teams the wrong way and the color of his skin isn’t it.

Im curious, how many of the head coaches, OC, and DC are minorities? What percentage are you happy with?

Plus as I have come to lean, if teams hire a minority candidate as an Asst or OC/DC and they move on and become a head coach, the team that hired him as the assistant, they get at least 1 extra draft pick, not sure if that's a 3rd, 4th, etc but the incentive is there to hire them and be rewarded.
There is a flip side to this coin which I'm not going to start discussing but if I were an NFL owner I would want to take advantage of this NFL guideline or rule.
If you have 2 candidates, both well qualified and you like both of them but one is a minority that you stand to gain a draft pick in a season or two, what would you do?

No offense but offering draft picks for minority hires is dumb and discriminating. Best person for the job should always be the focus. I don’t have the stats but it seems to me there has been a lot of minority hires in the NFL.

Merit is certainly warranted, but as of the 2023 season, less than 20% of NFL head coaches are non-white. That's concerning in a league where men of color make up 75% of the player pool. The Rooney rule has been in place for 20 years now and the league is finally starting to get traction that, yes, non-whites can actually coach.

Percentage of black Americans is 13.6%. Pretty sure the Rooney Rule has worked. Now the 17.8% Hispanics may have an argument.

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

People only believe Eric Bieniemy needs to be promoted as a coach because their televisions told them so.

​

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

I was wondering how long it would be before someone would insinuate the reason EB didn't get hired was because he was black - in a year where half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities.

I’m sure some desperately want to play the race card, but as you said, “half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities “. So, there has to be something about him that rubs teams the wrong way and the color of his skin isn’t it.

Im curious, how many of the head coaches, OC, and DC are minorities? What percentage are you happy with?

Plus as I have come to lean, if teams hire a minority candidate as an Asst or OC/DC and they move on and become a head coach, the team that hired him as the assistant, they get at least 1 extra draft pick, not sure if that's a 3rd, 4th, etc but the incentive is there to hire them and be rewarded.
There is a flip side to this coin which I'm not going to start discussing but if I were an NFL owner I would want to take advantage of this NFL guideline or rule.
If you have 2 candidates, both well qualified and you like both of them but one is a minority that you stand to gain a draft pick in a season or two, what would you do?

No offense but offering draft picks for minority hires is dumb and discriminating. Best person for the job should always be the focus. I don’t have the stats but it seems to me there has been a lot of minority hires in the NFL.

Merit is certainly warranted, but as of the 2023 season, less than 20% of NFL head coaches are non-white. That's concerning in a league where men of color make up 75% of the player pool. The Rooney rule has been in place for 20 years now and the league is finally starting to get traction that, yes, non-whites can actually coach.

Percentage of black Americans is 13.6%. Pretty sure the Rooney Rule has worked. Now the 17.8% Hispanics may have an argument.

So you're saying that overall US demographics is what should drive coaching, not, you know, experts in the field? Look, the vast majority of coaches have playing experience at least on the college level. The fact that there's a discrepancy between the huge number of black players and the very low number of black coaches should be telling AND a good reason for the Rooney Rule.

 

[pinkstapler]

I was wondering how long it would be before someone would insinuate the reason EB didn't get hired was because he was black - in a year where half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities.

I’m sure some desperately want to play the race card, but as you said, “half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities “. So, there has to be something about him that rubs teams the wrong way and the color of his skin isn’t it.

Im curious, how many of the head coaches, OC, and DC are minorities? What percentage are you happy with?

Plus as I have come to lean, if teams hire a minority candidate as an Asst or OC/DC and they move on and become a head coach, the team that hired him as the assistant, they get at least 1 extra draft pick, not sure if that's a 3rd, 4th, etc but the incentive is there to hire them and be rewarded.
There is a flip side to this coin which I'm not going to start discussing but if I were an NFL owner I would want to take advantage of this NFL guideline or rule.
If you have 2 candidates, both well qualified and you like both of them but one is a minority that you stand to gain a draft pick in a season or two, what would you do?

No offense but offering draft picks for minority hires is dumb and discriminating. Best person for the job should always be the focus. I don’t have the stats but it seems to me there has been a lot of minority hires in the NFL.

Merit is certainly warranted, but as of the 2023 season, less than 20% of NFL head coaches are non-white. That's concerning in a league where men of color make up 75% of the player pool. The Rooney rule has been in place for 20 years now and the league is finally starting to get traction that, yes, non-whites can actually coach.

Percentage of black Americans is 13.6%. Pretty sure the Rooney Rule has worked. Now the 17.8% Hispanics may have an argument.

So you're saying that overall US demographics is what should drive coaching, not, you know, experts in the field? Look, the vast majority of coaches have playing experience at least on the coaching level. The fact that there's a discrepancy between the huge number of black players and the very low number of black coaches should be telling AND a good reason for the Rooney Rule.

I'm not saying you're wrong, because really, I don't have a clue. I also don't care to discuss race issues on an anonymous msg board online. FBG is better than a lot of places on the net, but I don't think any have ever proved out to be a bastion of intellectual enlightenment tbh.

But I do think that if you're are trying to equate the percentage of black players as a statistic that should directly correlate to the number of black coaches, IMO it could be a very faulty premise and not because of anything about race IMO. If this isn't what you're doing, I apologize and please ignore. If it is, I'd challenge the insinuation that playing experience integral to being a good coach. In fact, I'd challenge that it's even really important at all.

Remove football from the situation to try to stay away from predisposition and bias; a number of the most knowledgeable people in the world, widely considered experts in their field, have shown or even indicated themselves that they are supremely unqualified to teach in the field. Same goes for being leaders in their field. The qualities required to be a teacher and a leader have very little to do with the possession of knowledge of the field itself. Obviously it's required to an extent, and the more that's had often the better. However, if you are unable to articulate that knowledge, if you lack the patience, the organizational skills, empathy, adaptability, listening skills, and probably most importantly an actual passion for teaching/leading; you won't be good. Obviously this is anecdotal, but again I think at face value many people would agree and there are plenty of examples in the world especially at the highest levels; often times the people who excel the most in their specific field present skills and traits that are practically diametrically opposed to these. These people in large numbers are selfish, impatient, demand perfection, and set practically unrealistic expectations for themselves and those around them. Another aspect I think that proves out is their inability to relinquish control. To accept that in their role they are largely held responsible for results which are more or less outside their control. Going back to athletes, Michael Jordon would probably be the most glaring example.

Obviously there are plenty of former players who become coaches. It makes sense, especially at the highest level. They've spent their entire lives in the game, and it only makes logical sense they want to continue spending their lives around the game when its over. But I think it's a supreme over simplification to conflate that fact with the notion that the ones who wind up "good" are because they were players. Wayne Gretzky, Magic Johnson, Isaiah Thomas, Ted Williams.... "experts in their field", to some of the absolute highest levels, pretty much abject failures as coaches. Vince Lombardi, Bill Belichick, Andy Reid... you get the point. I'm not trying to make the case players CAN'T become good coaches. I'm making the case we shouldn't be trying to say theirs any causal relationship between the two. And again, in some ways, I think it works against them, especially if they are top in their field.

Considering the complex, and understandably heated, topic of racism in the country; I think a little more concern should be shown towards the issues than just flippantly saying "more black players should equal more black coaches". At the very least, present a case on why.

 

[JohnnyU]

I was wondering how long it would be before someone would insinuate the reason EB didn't get hired was because he was black - in a year where half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities.

I’m sure some desperately want to play the race card, but as you said, “half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities “. So, there has to be something about him that rubs teams the wrong way and the color of his skin isn’t it.

Im curious, how many of the head coaches, OC, and DC are minorities? What percentage are you happy with?

Plus as I have come to lean, if teams hire a minority candidate as an Asst or OC/DC and they move on and become a head coach, the team that hired him as the assistant, they get at least 1 extra draft pick, not sure if that's a 3rd, 4th, etc but the incentive is there to hire them and be rewarded.
There is a flip side to this coin which I'm not going to start discussing but if I were an NFL owner I would want to take advantage of this NFL guideline or rule.
If you have 2 candidates, both well qualified and you like both of them but one is a minority that you stand to gain a draft pick in a season or two, what would you do?

No offense but offering draft picks for minority hires is dumb and discriminating. Best person for the job should always be the focus. I don’t have the stats but it seems to me there has been a lot of minority hires in the NFL.

Merit is certainly warranted, but as of the 2023 season, less than 20% of NFL head coaches are non-white. That's concerning in a league where men of color make up 75% of the player pool. The Rooney rule has been in place for 20 years now and the league is finally starting to get traction that, yes, non-whites can actually coach.

Percentage of black Americans is 13.6%. Pretty sure the Rooney Rule has worked. Now the 17.8% Hispanics may have an argument.

So you're saying that overall US demographics is what should drive coaching, not, you know, experts in the field? Look, the vast majority of coaches have playing experience at least on the coaching level. The fact that there's a discrepancy between the huge number of black players and the very low number of black coaches should be telling AND a good reason for the Rooney Rule.

I'm not saying you're wrong, because really, I don't have a clue. I also don't care to discuss race issues on an anonymous msg board online. FBG is better than a lot of places on the net, but I don't think any have ever proved out to be a bastion of intellectual enlightenment tbh.

But I do think that if you're are trying to equate the percentage of black players as a statistic that should directly correlate to the number of black coaches, IMO it could be a very faulty premise and not because of anything about race IMO. If this isn't what you're doing, I apologize and please ignore. If it is, I'd challenge the insinuation that playing experience integral to being a good coach. In fact, I'd challenge that it's even really important at all.

Remove football from the situation to try to stay away from predisposition and bias; a number of the most knowledgeable people in the world, widely considered experts in their field, have shown or even indicated that they are supremely unqualified to teach in the field. Same goes for being leaders in their field. The qualities required to be a teacher and a leader have very little to do with the possession of knowledge of the field itself. Obviously it's required to an extent, and the more that's had often the better. However, if you are unable to articulate that knowledge, if you lack the patience, the organizational skills, empathy, adaptability, listening skills, and probably most importantly an actual passion for teaching/leading; you won't be good. Obviously this is anecdotal, but again I think at face value many people would agree and there are plenty of examples in the world especially at the highest levels; often times the people who excel at the most in their specific field present skills and traits that are practically diametrically opposed to these. These people in large numbers are selfish, impatient, demand perfection, and set practically unrealistic expectations for themselves and those around them. Another aspect I think that proves out is their inability to relinquish control. To accept that in their role they are largely held responsible for results which are more or less outside their control. Going back to athletes, Michael Jordon would probably be the most glaring example.

Obviously there are plenty of former players who become coaches. It only makes sense, especially at the highest level. They've spent their entire lives in the game, and it only makes logical sense they want to continue spending their lives around the game when its over. But I think it's a supreme over simplification to conflate that fact with the notion that the ones who wind up "good" are because they were players. Wayne Gretzky, Magic Johnson, Isaiah Thomas, Ted Williams.... "experts in their field", to some of the absolute highest levels, pretty much abject failures as coaches. Vince Lombardi, Bill Belichick, Andy Reid... you get the point. I'm not trying to make the case players CAN'T become good coaches. I'm making the case we shouldn't be trying to say theirs any causal relationship between the two. And again, in some ways, I think it works against them, especially if they are top in their field.

Especially considering the complexity, and understandably heated topic of racism in the country; I think a little more concern should be shown towards the issues than just flippantly saying "more black players should equal more black coaches". At the very least, present a case on why.

Very well thought out post.

 

[BassNBrew]

I was wondering how long it would be before someone would insinuate the reason EB didn't get hired was because he was black - in a year where half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities.

I’m sure some desperately want to play the race card, but as you said, “half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities “. So, there has to be something about him that rubs teams the wrong way and the color of his skin isn’t it.

Im curious, how many of the head coaches, OC, and DC are minorities? What percentage are you happy with?

Plus as I have come to lean, if teams hire a minority candidate as an Asst or OC/DC and they move on and become a head coach, the team that hired him as the assistant, they get at least 1 extra draft pick, not sure if that's a 3rd, 4th, etc but the incentive is there to hire them and be rewarded.
There is a flip side to this coin which I'm not going to start discussing but if I were an NFL owner I would want to take advantage of this NFL guideline or rule.
If you have 2 candidates, both well qualified and you like both of them but one is a minority that you stand to gain a draft pick in a season or two, what would you do?

No offense but offering draft picks for minority hires is dumb and discriminating. Best person for the job should always be the focus. I don’t have the stats but it seems to me there has been a lot of minority hires in the NFL.

Merit is certainly warranted, but as of the 2023 season, less than 20% of NFL head coaches are non-white. That's concerning in a league where men of color make up 75% of the player pool. The Rooney rule has been in place for 20 years now and the league is finally starting to get traction that, yes, non-whites can actually coach.

Percentage of black Americans is 13.6%. Pretty sure the Rooney Rule has worked. Now the 17.8% Hispanics may have an argument.

So you're saying that overall US demographics is what should drive coaching, not, you know, experts in the field? Look, the vast majority of coaches have playing experience at least on the coaching level. The fact that there's a discrepancy between the huge number of black players and the very low number of black coaches should be telling AND a good reason for the Rooney Rule.

I don't think experts in the field make the best coaches. The best coaches probably are guys who played at a middling to lower tier college because they loved the sport and weren't very good. Probably guys smart enough to realize this and got their degree at the same time. I'm not sure what those demographics are. Not sure if the NFL is doing anything to find and groom these guys.

 

[BassNBrew]

I was wondering how long it would be before someone would insinuate the reason EB didn't get hired was because he was black - in a year where half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities.

I’m sure some desperately want to play the race card, but as you said, “half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities “. So, there has to be something about him that rubs teams the wrong way and the color of his skin isn’t it.

Im curious, how many of the head coaches, OC, and DC are minorities? What percentage are you happy with?

Plus as I have come to lean, if teams hire a minority candidate as an Asst or OC/DC and they move on and become a head coach, the team that hired him as the assistant, they get at least 1 extra draft pick, not sure if that's a 3rd, 4th, etc but the incentive is there to hire them and be rewarded.
There is a flip side to this coin which I'm not going to start discussing but if I were an NFL owner I would want to take advantage of this NFL guideline or rule.
If you have 2 candidates, both well qualified and you like both of them but one is a minority that you stand to gain a draft pick in a season or two, what would you do?

No offense but offering draft picks for minority hires is dumb and discriminating. Best person for the job should always be the focus. I don’t have the stats but it seems to me there has been a lot of minority hires in the NFL.

Merit is certainly warranted, but as of the 2023 season, less than 20% of NFL head coaches are non-white. That's concerning in a league where men of color make up 75% of the player pool. The Rooney rule has been in place for 20 years now and the league is finally starting to get traction that, yes, non-whites can actually coach.

Percentage of black Americans is 13.6%. Pretty sure the Rooney Rule has worked. Now the 17.8% Hispanics may have an argument.

So you're saying that overall US demographics is what should drive coaching, not, you know, experts in the field? Look, the vast majority of coaches have playing experience at least on the coaching level. The fact that there's a discrepancy between the huge number of black players and the very low number of black coaches should be telling AND a good reason for the Rooney Rule.

I'm not saying you're wrong, because really, I don't have a clue. I also don't care to discuss race issues on an anonymous msg board online. FBG is better than a lot of places on the net, but I don't think any have ever proved out to be a bastion of intellectual enlightenment tbh.

But I do think that if you're are trying to equate the percentage of black players as a statistic that should directly correlate to the number of black coaches, IMO it could be a very faulty premise and not because of anything about race IMO. If this isn't what you're doing, I apologize and please ignore. If it is, I'd challenge the insinuation that playing experience integral to being a good coach. In fact, I'd challenge that it's even really important at all.

Remove football from the situation to try to stay away from predisposition and bias; a number of the most knowledgeable people in the world, widely considered experts in their field, have shown or even indicated themselves that they are supremely unqualified to teach in the field. Same goes for being leaders in their field. The qualities required to be a teacher and a leader have very little to do with the possession of knowledge of the field itself. Obviously it's required to an extent, and the more that's had often the better. However, if you are unable to articulate that knowledge, if you lack the patience, the organizational skills, empathy, adaptability, listening skills, and probably most importantly an actual passion for teaching/leading; you won't be good. Obviously this is anecdotal, but again I think at face value many people would agree and there are plenty of examples in the world especially at the highest levels; often times the people who excel at the most in their specific field present skills and traits that are practically diametrically opposed to these. These people in large numbers are selfish, impatient, demand perfection, and set practically unrealistic expectations for themselves and those around them. Another aspect I think that proves out is their inability to relinquish control. To accept that in their role they are largely held responsible for results which are more or less outside their control. Going back to athletes, Michael Jordon would probably be the most glaring example.

Obviously there are plenty of former players who become coaches. It only makes sense, especially at the highest level. They've spent their entire lives in the game, and it only makes logical sense they want to continue spending their lives around the game when its over. But I think it's a supreme over simplification to conflate that fact with the notion that the ones who wind up "good" are because they were players. Wayne Gretzky, Magic Johnson, Isaiah Thomas, Ted Williams.... "experts in their field", to some of the absolute highest levels, pretty much abject failures as coaches. Vince Lombardi, Bill Belichick, Andy Reid... you get the point. I'm not trying to make the case players CAN'T become good coaches. I'm making the case we shouldn't be trying to say theirs any causal relationship between the two. And again, in some ways, I think it works against them, especially if they are top in their field.

Especially considering the complexity, and understandably heated topic of racism in the country; I think a little more concern should be shown towards the issues than just flippantly saying "more black players should equal more black coaches". At the very least, present a case on why.

Being a former NFL player is already a huge advantage because you know people in the league who can get your foot in the door. Any programs to improve the excellence of profession should focus on opening doors for those who don't have that advantage.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

So you're saying that overall US demographics is what should drive coaching, not, you know, experts in the field? Look, the vast majority of coaches have playing experience at least on the coaching level. The fact that there's a discrepancy between the huge number of black players and the very low number of black coaches should be telling AND a good reason for the Rooney Rule.

It tells me that the skill set that makes someone a good coach is quite a bit different from the skill set that makes someone a good player, and those skills don't translate incredibly well. That shouldn't be surprising. Lots of engineers flame out when you put them in management positions. Why should sports be any different?

 

[pinkstapler]

I was wondering how long it would be before someone would insinuate the reason EB didn't get hired was because he was black - in a year where half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities.

I’m sure some desperately want to play the race card, but as you said, “half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities “. So, there has to be something about him that rubs teams the wrong way and the color of his skin isn’t it.

Im curious, how many of the head coaches, OC, and DC are minorities? What percentage are you happy with?

Plus as I have come to lean, if teams hire a minority candidate as an Asst or OC/DC and they move on and become a head coach, the team that hired him as the assistant, they get at least 1 extra draft pick, not sure if that's a 3rd, 4th, etc but the incentive is there to hire them and be rewarded.
There is a flip side to this coin which I'm not going to start discussing but if I were an NFL owner I would want to take advantage of this NFL guideline or rule.
If you have 2 candidates, both well qualified and you like both of them but one is a minority that you stand to gain a draft pick in a season or two, what would you do?

No offense but offering draft picks for minority hires is dumb and discriminating. Best person for the job should always be the focus. I don’t have the stats but it seems to me there has been a lot of minority hires in the NFL.

Merit is certainly warranted, but as of the 2023 season, less than 20% of NFL head coaches are non-white. That's concerning in a league where men of color make up 75% of the player pool. The Rooney rule has been in place for 20 years now and the league is finally starting to get traction that, yes, non-whites can actually coach.

Percentage of black Americans is 13.6%. Pretty sure the Rooney Rule has worked. Now the 17.8% Hispanics may have an argument.

So you're saying that overall US demographics is what should drive coaching, not, you know, experts in the field? Look, the vast majority of coaches have playing experience at least on the coaching level. The fact that there's a discrepancy between the huge number of black players and the very low number of black coaches should be telling AND a good reason for the Rooney Rule.

I don't think experts in the field make the best coaches. The best coaches probably are guys who played at a middling to lower tier college because they loved the sport and weren't very good. Probably guys smart enough to realize this and got their degree at the same time. I'm not sure what those demographics are. Not sure if the NFL is doing anything to find and groom these guys.

Staying in football I think back up QBs show this out a lot. The "best" back up QBs are more often chosen for traits outside their ability to be a top level playing QB. It's the ways they contribute. Modeling different styles to help the defense prepare, building the starter up for success, getting younger players up to speed faster. In a recent interview it was interesting hearing Mark Sanchez describe himself as a "pillow for Mitch (Trubisky) to scream into" when he'd come off the sidelines after a bad series.

And on the flip side, you hear from coaches and QBs themselves, many who played at a high level and were starters for a while can't or straight up won't be back ups. At least not in the way coaching staffs want them to be.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

It is about decisions made by suits who don't like the cut of someone's jib.
See Leo Beebe who didn't like Ken Miles to be the frontman of the Ford racing team.
LINK to video

 

[pinkstapler]

I was wondering how long it would be before someone would insinuate the reason EB didn't get hired was because he was black - in a year where half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities.

I’m sure some desperately want to play the race card, but as you said, “half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities “. So, there has to be something about him that rubs teams the wrong way and the color of his skin isn’t it.

Im curious, how many of the head coaches, OC, and DC are minorities? What percentage are you happy with?

Plus as I have come to lean, if teams hire a minority candidate as an Asst or OC/DC and they move on and become a head coach, the team that hired him as the assistant, they get at least 1 extra draft pick, not sure if that's a 3rd, 4th, etc but the incentive is there to hire them and be rewarded.
There is a flip side to this coin which I'm not going to start discussing but if I were an NFL owner I would want to take advantage of this NFL guideline or rule.
If you have 2 candidates, both well qualified and you like both of them but one is a minority that you stand to gain a draft pick in a season or two, what would you do?

No offense but offering draft picks for minority hires is dumb and discriminating. Best person for the job should always be the focus. I don’t have the stats but it seems to me there has been a lot of minority hires in the NFL.

Merit is certainly warranted, but as of the 2023 season, less than 20% of NFL head coaches are non-white. That's concerning in a league where men of color make up 75% of the player pool. The Rooney rule has been in place for 20 years now and the league is finally starting to get traction that, yes, non-whites can actually coach.

Percentage of black Americans is 13.6%. Pretty sure the Rooney Rule has worked. Now the 17.8% Hispanics may have an argument.

So you're saying that overall US demographics is what should drive coaching, not, you know, experts in the field? Look, the vast majority of coaches have playing experience at least on the coaching level. The fact that there's a discrepancy between the huge number of black players and the very low number of black coaches should be telling AND a good reason for the Rooney Rule.

I'm not saying you're wrong, because really, I don't have a clue. I also don't care to discuss race issues on an anonymous msg board online. FBG is better than a lot of places on the net, but I don't think any have ever proved out to be a bastion of intellectual enlightenment tbh.

But I do think that if you're are trying to equate the percentage of black players as a statistic that should directly correlate to the number of black coaches, IMO it could be a very faulty premise and not because of anything about race IMO. If this isn't what you're doing, I apologize and please ignore. If it is, I'd challenge the insinuation that playing experience integral to being a good coach. In fact, I'd challenge that it's even really important at all.

Remove football from the situation to try to stay away from predisposition and bias; a number of the most knowledgeable people in the world, widely considered experts in their field, have shown or even indicated themselves that they are supremely unqualified to teach in the field. Same goes for being leaders in their field. The qualities required to be a teacher and a leader have very little to do with the possession of knowledge of the field itself. Obviously it's required to an extent, and the more that's had often the better. However, if you are unable to articulate that knowledge, if you lack the patience, the organizational skills, empathy, adaptability, listening skills, and probably most importantly an actual passion for teaching/leading; you won't be good. Obviously this is anecdotal, but again I think at face value many people would agree and there are plenty of examples in the world especially at the highest levels; often times the people who excel at the most in their specific field present skills and traits that are practically diametrically opposed to these. These people in large numbers are selfish, impatient, demand perfection, and set practically unrealistic expectations for themselves and those around them. Another aspect I think that proves out is their inability to relinquish control. To accept that in their role they are largely held responsible for results which are more or less outside their control. Going back to athletes, Michael Jordon would probably be the most glaring example.

Obviously there are plenty of former players who become coaches. It only makes sense, especially at the highest level. They've spent their entire lives in the game, and it only makes logical sense they want to continue spending their lives around the game when its over. But I think it's a supreme over simplification to conflate that fact with the notion that the ones who wind up "good" are because they were players. Wayne Gretzky, Magic Johnson, Isaiah Thomas, Ted Williams.... "experts in their field", to some of the absolute highest levels, pretty much abject failures as coaches. Vince Lombardi, Bill Belichick, Andy Reid... you get the point. I'm not trying to make the case players CAN'T become good coaches. I'm making the case we shouldn't be trying to say theirs any causal relationship between the two. And again, in some ways, I think it works against them, especially if they are top in their field.

Especially considering the complexity, and understandably heated topic of racism in the country; I think a little more concern should be shown towards the issues than just flippantly saying "more black players should equal more black coaches". At the very least, present a case on why.

Being a former NFL player is already a huge advantage because you know people in the league who can get your foot in the door. Any programs to improve the excellence of profession should focus on opening doors for those who don't have that advantage.

This also touches on some of the reasons retread coaches keep getting new opportunities. It's the reality that the HC has a lot of say in filling out their staff. People who've been a HC before have made connections and developed relationships with a large amount of other coaches, especially if they've held the job multiple years/times. You always hear they are gonna bring in "their guys". Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. Regardless, it's the reality of the situation.

I'm very happy for Antonio Pierce, I think he more than earned his shot at HC and it should be a positive thing for the Raiders moving forward. That said, it'd be silly to ignore the fact he's going to have a much harder time staffing his team than say if Bill Belichick got a job as a HC tomorrow. Doesn't mean Bill should have gotten that job, or would do it better. Hell, one thing that hurt Bill the past few years were his staffing hires. But it will be another challenge Pierce has to overcome to find success. Should owners/GMs make this an emphasis when hiring HCs? Dunno, but I think we'd be foolish to say it isn't a consideration.

 

[-OZ-]

The best coaches probably are guys who played at a middling to lower tier college because they loved the sport and weren't very good. Probably guys smart enough to realize this and got their degree at the same time. I'm not sure what those demographics are. Not sure if the NFL is doing anything to find and groom these guys.

Like a WR at Miami, OH who caught the ball less than 40 times in his college career? Yeah, those guys can make it.

 

[abrunn1133]

I was wondering how long it would be before someone would insinuate the reason EB didn't get hired was because he was black - in a year where half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities.

I’m sure some desperately want to play the race card, but as you said, “half of the head coaching vacancies were filled by minorities “. So, there has to be something about him that rubs teams the wrong way and the color of his skin isn’t it.

Im curious, how many of the head coaches, OC, and DC are minorities? What percentage are you happy with?

Plus as I have come to lean, if teams hire a minority candidate as an Asst or OC/DC and they move on and become a head coach, the team that hired him as the assistant, they get at least 1 extra draft pick, not sure if that's a 3rd, 4th, etc but the incentive is there to hire them and be rewarded.
There is a flip side to this coin which I'm not going to start discussing but if I were an NFL owner I would want to take advantage of this NFL guideline or rule.
If you have 2 candidates, both well qualified and you like both of them but one is a minority that you stand to gain a draft pick in a season or two, what would you do?

No offense but offering draft picks for minority hires is dumb and discriminating. Best person for the job should always be the focus. I don’t have the stats but it seems to me there has been a lot of minority hires in the NFL.

Merit is certainly warranted, but as of the 2023 season, less than 20% of NFL head coaches are non-white. That's concerning in a league where men of color make up 75% of the player pool. The Rooney rule has been in place for 20 years now and the league is finally starting to get traction that, yes, non-whites can actually coach.

Percentage of black Americans is 13.6%. Pretty sure the Rooney Rule has worked. Now the 17.8% Hispanics may have an argument.

So you're saying that overall US demographics is what should drive coaching, not, you know, experts in the field? Look, the vast majority of coaches have playing experience at least on the coaching level. The fact that there's a discrepancy between the huge number of black players and the very low number of black coaches should be telling AND a good reason for the Rooney Rule.

I don't think experts in the field make the best coaches. The best coaches probably are guys who played at a middling to lower tier college because they loved the sport and weren't very good. Probably guys smart enough to realize this and got their degree at the same time. I'm not sure what those demographics are. Not sure if the NFL is doing anything to find and groom these guys.

Staying in football I think back up QBs show this out a lot. The "best" back up QBs are more often chosen for traits outside their ability to be a top level playing QB. It's the ways they contribute. Modeling different styles to help the defense prepare, building the starter up for success, getting younger players up to speed faster. In a recent interview it was interesting hearing Mark Sanchez describe himself as a "pillow for Mitch (Trubisky) to scream into" when he'd come off the sidelines after a bad series.

And on the flip side, you hear from coaches and QBs themselves, many who played at a high level and were starters for a while can't or straight up won't be back ups. At least not in the way coaching staffs want them to be.

I guess this is why Tim Boyle is an NFL QB.

 

[massraider]

I'm very happy for Antonio Pierce, I think he more than earned his shot at HC and it should be a positive thing for the Raiders moving forward. That said, it'd be silly to ignore the fact he's going to have a much harder time staffing his team than say if Bill Belichick got a job as a HC tomorrow. Doesn't mean Bill should have gotten that job, or would do it better. Hell, one thing that hurt Bill the past few years were his staffing hires. But it will be another challenge Pierce has to overcome to find success. Should owners/GMs make this an emphasis when hiring HCs? Dunno, but I think we'd be foolish to say it isn't a consideration

Hundred percent. Lack of having a network means you don't know as many good coaches. And people fill their staffs with people they know, and people that those people know. Pierce brought in experienced people to help him out, but also to screen potential assistant coaches. To expand his network. Marvin Lewis, etc

The entire thing about retread coaches is kind of dumb. Actually, exceptionally stupid.

Someone got fired, so he can never do a good job, or have an original idea, or have an innovative offense? Fans all want a 32-year old passing game genius. What age is it, exactly, when coaches stop thinking up clever offensive plays? 38 years old? 40?

People were all worked up about Bobby Slowik this December. He has been an OC for one season. We have no idea what his offense looks like without the best rookie QB pretty much ever.

Ben Johnson turned down a job, and you heard, 'well he better take that job because what if the offense regresses next year?' If one off year make him a bad choice, what kind of candidate was he in the first place?

 

[Faust]

Eric Bieniemy, fired by Commanders, visited Chiefs during playoff run

 

[ChiefD]

Bienenemy will be back with the Chiefs next year this week. Some sort of offensive assistant head coach or some such title. I remember reading an article about him a few years ago - during Covid.

His oldest son has cerebral palsy and some respiratory issues, and he was basically saying he has to keep working so he can have enough money to support him long term. So he will be somewhere in my opinion.

Eric Bieniemy, fired by Commanders, visited Chiefs during playoff run

Fixed my post from yesterday.

 

[GregR]

My expectation is that if there isn't bias involved, then I'd expect the diversity of coaches to fall somewhere in between that of college and the NFL players which I think combined is the main pool of potential candidates.

Which does lower the minority percentage from that of the NFL players alone. We saw those stats back in the Rooney Rule's early days though I don't recall the exact numbers, but it was closer to 50/50 than 75/25 as the NFL is. But even expecting a level in between college and NFL ratios, where the NFL was, and still is, is so far away from that, that it's pretty tough to believe there isn't bias at hand.

I do think NFL players have a leg up on college players for more exposure to the sport and higher levels of coaching to interact with, and more contacts with decision makers. But it's true that NFL players isn't the exclusive pool from which coaches are drawn. However, the general US diversity makeup is a horrible level to cite.

All that said, I don't have a specific reason to think bias a deciding role with Bieniemy. I'm sure it was there as much as it is with anyone, but I don't think it would be the trump card in his case.

Because of the high regard for his coaching there was, I would have expected that to be enough to trump bias with some team. But then we do hear of the other issues he has and that seems likely the main issue with him. When his last head coach had to publicly address how he had to smooth over a rift between the players and EB, that's pretty telling.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Eric Bieniemy, fired by Commanders, visited Chiefs during playoff run

I don't know the exact etiquette of doing that when you're officially under contract, but it would be pretty silly to get worked up over this story. He was clearly not coming back to DC and everyone knew that. It's like getting mad at the guy who already gave his two-week notice for taking too long of a lunch break

 

[doeseatplace]

Eric Bieniemy lasted one season with the Commanders. Here’s what went wrong.​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2024/02/08/eric-bieniemy-commanders-what-happened/ (SUBSCRIPTION REQ'D)

In one of his first major decisions as the Washington Commanders’ new head coach, Dan Quinn fired offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy on Monday, with a year remaining on his contract. The move seemed likely at season’s end and inevitable when the Commanders named Kliff Kingsbury their new offensive coordinator. But it was a significant turn for Bieniemy, who arrived a year ago to great fanfare.

The Commanders job, which had its share of difficulties with an unproven starting quarterback, gave Bieniemy play-calling duties and the added title of assistant head coach. But he inherited a roster that was built for the offense of the previous coordinator, Scott Turner, and included minimal investment in the offensive line. Even so, it appeared to be another step toward trying to prove he deserved to run a team after he’d spent five seasons as the Kansas City Chiefs’ coordinator and interviewed for 16 head-coaching vacancies with 15 teams.

But in Bieniemy’s lone season in Washington, the Commanders’ offense was inconsistent and unbalanced, and quarterback Sam Howell regressed as the season went on. Bieniemy was hardly the team’s only or biggest problem; its 4-13 finish was the result of myriad issues on the field and in the front office.

Before Bieniemy arrived in Washington, his high-profile pursuit of a head coaching job had already raised questions about why so many teams had passed him over, and his quick exit from the Commanders raised more. He interviewed for the Commanders’ head-coaching vacancy last month but was not believed to be among the finalists for the job.

So what went wrong? Why was Washington so quick to move on?

Ultimately, Quinn, like many coaches, wanted his own guy, and knew he wanted to bring Kingsbury with him when he got another shot as a head coach. And Washington’s on-field results last season factored into the decision. The team tied for 23rd in offensive scoring, 24th in third-down efficiency and finished 30th in rush rate (38.2 percent) when the clock or scoreboard didn’t dictate run or pass.

In the locker room, signs of frustration were evident throughout the season. After Washington’s last game, a blowout loss to the Dallas Cowboys, tight end Logan Thomas was as direct as any player had been about the simmering tensions between Bieniemy and his players.

“I might be the only one to say it, but I think we had our ups and downs [with Bieniemy],” Thomas said. “We had some good, we had some bad. It’s one of those things where something new comes in after you’ve been used to something else for a couple years, and sometimes you can bang heads. But I respect him for coming to work every day and being the same person every day.”

Other players, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal team dynamics, described Bieniemy as a hard-working coach who hamstrung his own efforts with poor communication, stubborn play-calling and a disregard for player feedback.

Bieniemy did not respond to a request for comment.

One of the first public conflicts Bieniemy had with a player was in early August. During a training camp practice, cornerback Benjamin St-Juste hit tight end Cole Turner hard and stood over him, glaring. Wide receiver and team captain Terry McLaurin believed the play had been unsportsmanlike and got in St-Juste’s face.

From the sideline, Bieniemy screamed at McLaurin and others to “stop with the dumb s--- and do your f---ing job.”

McLaurin yelled back: “Can’t do that s--- to your teammate, bro!”

The next week, former coach Ron Rivera said some players had gone to him because they were “a little concerned” about Bieniemy’s coaching style. Rivera attempted to clarify his comments the following day, and multiple players went on the record to acknowledge the value of Bieniemy’s hard-nosed approach.

As the season progressed, friction remained. Multiple people said there was often confusion on game days because offensive adjustments were not clearly communicated to players, and assistants didn’t seem to be on the same page. Behind the scenes, some players urged their position coaches to beg Bieniemy to run the ball more. The pass-heavy attack placed an extra burden on the offensive line and the quarterback — and when Washington’s offense did run, it averaged the seventh-most yards per carry in the NFL, 4.43 yards.


“I don't think they gave [Howell] a fair chance,” a player said. “I felt like we became a one-dimensional team.”

Another player blamed Rivera for not forcing Bieniemy to run the ball more or fixing the disconnect between the offensive and defensive staffs.

“We didn’t play complementary football all year long, and that came back to haunt us,” the player said.

Some players felt Bieniemy’s intense practices, though helpful in training camp, left them exhausted before games, and they believed the practices created a greater risk of injury. Bieniemy’s title of assistant head coach gave him greater authority than most coordinators, allowing him to script practices and alter players’ schedules during the week. One player felt Rivera delegated too much and failed to step in or make changes quickly when warranted.

“It was EB’s f---ing team,” another said.

Rivera, who declined to comment for this story, did meet with Bieniemy midway through the season to discuss his approach and suggest the offense run the ball more, a person with knowledge of the meeting said.

The Commanders opened the season with two wins, and many players said they welcomed Bieniemy’s changes, especially early on.

“The idea that people were rejecting any sort of change at all is just stupid,” one player said. “ … We needed to have some change.”

But Washington lost its next three games, a stretch that culminated in a 40-20 loss to the previously winless Chicago Bears at FedEx Field. Facing a massive early deficit, Bieniemy called 53 consecutive passes in that game. Howell was hit 11 times and took five sacks. Several players saw that moment as a turning point.

Two weeks later, the New York Giants used blitzes and man-to-man coverage to beat up Howell, who took six more sacks and 12 hits. McLaurin, who almost never critiques coaching decisions or play calls, said he thought the Commanders could’ve countered better.

“When teams are blitzing like that, it leaves one-on-one opportunities, and I felt like we got to that late,” he said. “Hopefully going forward we just get to it a little earlier and give us chances to make plays down the field.”

Even though their offense was explosive at times early in the year, the Commanders had a perplexing inability to consistently involve their playmakers. In a December loss to the Miami Dolphins, McLaurin didn’t have a single catch for just the second time in his career.

“I ran a lot of cardio,” he said afterward.

Bieniemy, who is Black, was unable to land an NFL head coaching job during his Chiefs tenure, despite the fact that he’d helped develop the game’s best young quarterback and won two Super Bowls as a coordinator. He became the face of the league’s minority hiring issues, and many observers regarded his move to the Commanders as an attempt to escape from Coach Andy Reid’s shadow and improve his chances as a head coaching candidate.

“I think his coaching future is great,” Reid said Wednesday. “I mean, I’m obviously a big fan of his, and I know the things that he can do.”

The Commanders were the only team to interview Bieniemy for a head coaching job during this hiring cycle, when four of eight open head coaching jobs went to minority candidates. The league has nine active minority head coaches, including six who are Black.

After the season, when it had become clear Bieniemy’s time with the Commanders was ending, the team gave him permission to speak with Chiefs players ahead of the AFC championship game.
“Just having him back in the building was really cool, listening to him talk, his energy,” quarterback Patrick Mahomes said Wednesday. “I think guys had a little bit of chill bumps, like, ‘Hey, EB’s back here.’ Obviously, he didn’t get that head coaching opportunity, but I’m excited for him to continue to coach football and to continue to make his impact on the game.”

On Monday, before Quinn’s introductory news conference at the team’s headquarters, the Commanders’ new coach met with Bieniemy to finalize the inevitable.

“We’re not going to work together here, but in this coaching brotherhood, I wanted him to know, man, I really respect the work that he’s done,” Quinn said. “ … I was really pumped that he took his shot this year and went for it.”

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Eric Bieniemy lasted one season with the Commanders. Here’s what went wrong.​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2024/02/08/eric-bieniemy-commanders-what-happened/ (SUBSCRIPTION REQ'D)

In one of his first major decisions as the Washington Commanders’ new head coach, Dan Quinn fired offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy on Monday, with a year remaining on his contract. The move seemed likely at season’s end and inevitable when the Commanders named Kliff Kingsbury their new offensive coordinator. But it was a significant turn for Bieniemy, who arrived a year ago to great fanfare.

Good piece. I think ultimately, his exit was overdetermined. The team had a horrible year. The offense wasn't very good, and the QB regressed. He rubbed some people the wrong way. Quinn wanted to bring in his own guy. Any one of those factors could have been enough to cost him his job. He had all of them