The real Problem in America (1 Viewer)

[renesauz]

With all of the hand wringing and arguing over social policies, whether or not we should be moving towards single-payer health care, etc., I find it disturbing that we rarely talk in any meaningful way about the biggest item in the National budget: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-long-would-the-us-military-last-in-a-war-against-the-rest-of-the-world-2016-3

Basically, this article points out the fact that our Navy and Air power aren't just the biggest and baddest in the world, but are so even if compared to the next 7 or 8 countries COMBINED. That even if not the largest, the technological investments and advantages of our army, particularly if it were fighting to defend our own borders, is so large that with the air power superiority already noted, it could easily defend us.

Our military budget is obscene. Yet...I'd be willing to bet that even suggesting that it's obscene (and I'm doing more than suggest here) will bring attacks of being weak or un-American. Is this a discussion we can even have here?

 

[msommer]

Why do you hate America?

 

[nittanylion]

If only we'd just use it effectively, most of the 'fake' problems would be solved as well...

 

[Ilov80s]

Why did you capitalize  "problem", but not "real"? 

 

[Cjw_55106]

Yes, no one ever mentions the military budget. 

 

[jon_mx]

Yes, no one ever mentions the military budget. 

The budget recieves lip service right before the candidate lists off a dozen new programs that there is no way to pay for.  We have not had a legitimate discussion on the budget since Ross Perot and Newt Gingrich. 

We need to tighten our belts on all aspects of the budget.  

 

[Cjw_55106]

Agree, but it will never happen. 

 

[comfortably numb]

Eisenhower was right about the military industrial complex 

 

[jon_mx]

Like every issue Hillary has been on both sides of the issue.  She has a long history of calling for more military spending.  I think her current spin is to spend more on diplomacy and less on the military.  Not really cutting but moving money around.  The lack of either party being interested in the budget really opens the door wide to a good fiscal conservative budget hawk.  If a third party candidate wants to be successful, there is the angle. 

 

[The General]

Why single out Hillary. They are all so full of #### above the military budget. 

Only guy who I remember ever saying they owould lower the military budget was Rand Paul. 

 

[Cjw_55106]

Like every issue Hillary has been on both sides of the issue.  She has a long history of calling for more military spending.  I think her current spin is to spend more on diplomacy and less on the military.  Not really cutting but moving money around.  The lack of either party being interested in the budget really opens the door wide to a good fiscal conservative budget hawk.  If a third party candidate wants to be successful, there is the angle. 

I'd like to think you're right, but I fear 90% of people are too stupid or uninterested for it to matter. Unless dramatic changes to th system occurs (wont happen) a third party candidate has little to no chance of ever winning. 

 

[NutterButter]

In all fairness, it wasn't too long ago where our military budget was the same as the next 20 countries combined.  So we're making progress.  Remember, progress, not perfection.

 

[DaVinci]

John McCain just reported that the military is woefully underfunded and couldn't handle another war with Grenada. 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/17/john-mccain-americas-military-force-deteriorating/

 

[renesauz]

John McCain just reported that the military is woefully underfunded and couldn't handle another war with Grenada. 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/17/john-mccain-americas-military-force-deteriorating/

And some people will actually believe him

 

[FUBAR]

By the topic I assumed this was about the prevelancy of blaming others for our problems and thinking others will fix our problems. 

But if we're talking about the military budget, the real problem is the biggest expenditures are so spread out across precincts that it's really politically difficult to cut anything of substance.  And it's not really the military as most people think about it, it's the industrial complex 

 

[NutterButter]

John McCain just reported that the military is woefully underfunded and couldn't handle another war with Grenada. 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/17/john-mccain-americas-military-force-deteriorating/

We have a $600B military budget and its woefully underfunded?   I love me some McCain.

 

[cstu]

Eisenhower was right about the military industrial complex 

 

[joffer]

We have a $600B military budget and its woefully underfunded?   I love me some McCain.

$600B ain't what it used to be

 

[John Bender]

Exactly the type of Friday threads we need around here.  

 

[FUBAR]

We have a $600B military budget and its woefully underfunded?   I love me some McCain.

1/3 of the brigade combat teams being ready to deploy is actually very good.  There's a cycle of readiness, when properly scheduled about 1/3 will be ready ay any time.  The other 2/3 are either building capacity or in "reset" meaning they're coming off being ready.  

 

[NutterButter]

$600B ain't what it used to be

It certainly don't equate to woefully underfunded

 

[Captain Cranks]

Actually, the real problem is money in politics which allows big business to steer policy to its benefit and not the people.   The obscene industrial war complex you described is just a single symptom of that.  Health care, banking, and our criminal justice system are other examples where policy is dictated by what's best for campaign financiers, not those that our politicians are supposed to represent.  

BTW, Bernie Sanders is the only one sounding the horn on this issue.  Since he won't be elected, don't expect the results of our government to change materially over the next 4 years.  

 

[ShamrockPride]

I get what you're saying and agree with your intended argument if we were talking strictly on defending out own turf and able to launch a potent retaliatory attack. However.....remember we are also defending and supplying soldiers, equpument, weapons, etc to a buttload of other countries too. So I get where that number comes from. I don't necessarily agree with us being everywhere, but it is the current state of things, and has been for all but what's that famous number how many years the US has existed and not been in a war? Like 10 years or something? It's never going to change.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I can't read a rant without thinking that the original poster has no real grasp of the capabilities of this country.   

 

[cstu]

I get what you're saying and agree with your intended argument if we were talking strictly on defending out own turf and able to launch a potent retaliatory attack. However.....remember we are also defending and supplying soldiers, equpument, weapons, etc to a buttload of other countries too. So I get where that number comes from. I don't necessarily agree with us being everywhere, but it is the current state of things, and has been for all but what's that famous number how many years the US has existed and not been in a war? Like 10 years or something? It's never going to change.

War, war never changes.

 

[Gachi]

100% of welfare programs should be cut. Stop encouraging lazy and poor people to procreate. 

That should save us some money. 

 

[jon_mx]

Why single out Hillary. They are all so full of #### above the military budget. 

Only guy who I remember ever saying they owould lower the military budget was Rand Paul. 

 The OP was concentrating on the military aspect.  I was singling out Hillary, because if there is going to be an anti-military budget cutter, it will come from a Democrat and that is not happening this election.   I think the solution comes from cuts across the board.  

 

[Mr.Pack]

Is..... The two party system.

 

[FUBAR]

Is..... The two party system.

Because Brazil, Denmark, Finland, Germany, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Mexico, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Pakistan, Portugal, Romania, Serbia, South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sweden, Taiwan and Philippines are doing better? 

 

[renesauz]

Actually, the real problem is money in politics which allows big business to steer policy to its benefit and not the people.   The obscene industrial war complex you described is just a single symptom of that.  Health care, banking, and our criminal justice system are other examples where policy is dictated by what's best for campaign financiers, not those that our politicians are supposed to represent.  

BTW, Bernie Sanders is the only one sounding the horn on this issue.  Since he won't be elected, don't expect the results of our government to change materially over the next 4 years.  

BINGO

I don't see the problem as being one of too many service members being paid too much with too many benefits. It isn't that the Navy or air force are too large (they are, but not by an "obscene amount".

It's the hundreds of billions funneled to corps for R&D, on systems, projects, and items that even many top officers find extraneous and un-necessary

 

[renesauz]

I can't read a rant without thinking that the original poster has no real grasp of the capabilities of this country.   

Interesting post....but not sure WTF you really mean by it.

 

[Mr.Pack]

Because Brazil, Denmark, Finland, Germany, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Mexico, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Pakistan, Portugal, Romania, Serbia, South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sweden, Taiwan and Philippines are doing better? 

Don't really care about them. I know things will never change in politics until there's a viable third party.

 

[Mr.Pack]

  1 hour ago, Captain Cranks said:
Actually, the real problem is money in politics which allows big business to steer policy to its benefit and not the people. 

Agree with this as well.

 

[timschochet]

Here it is: 

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-the-us-military-spends-its-billions-2015-8

Where are we going to cut? 

 

[timschochet]

601 billion a year. It's easy to complain about, but where to cut? We could close down bases, but if we do we put a ton of people out of work: not just the military people on the bases themselves, but all the small businesses who rely on those bases, the communities, etc. Good luck getting any congressman or Senator from the state in question to agree with that. 

 

[FreeBaGeL]

This is why it always shukes me a bit when people rave on about how expensive Bernie's plans are while completely ignoring Trump/Cruz/Rubio's calls to "rebuild our military" and start a new ground war overseas, nevermind the tax cuts.  Are there any analysis out there on how expensive these things would be vs. free college/healthcare?

 

[Dr Oadi]

Deficits and debt doesn't matter.  

Neither does doubling spending on bridges roads and schools because that's how much you spend on interest every single year.  

 

[timschochet]

This is why it always shukes me a bit when people rave on about how expensive Bernie's plans are while completely ignoring Trump/Cruz/Rubio's calls to "rebuild our military" and start a new ground war overseas, nevermind the tax cuts.  Are there any analysis out there on how expensive these things would be vs. free college/healthcare?

Sure. Bernie Sanders' cost of free education, for example, will be 75 billion a year. He proposes to pay for it by taxation on the very wealthy, not by cutting the military. The military budget is 601 billion a year. 

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Deficits and debt doesn't matter.  

Neither does doubling spending on bridges roads and schools because that's how much you spend on interest every single year.  

Request a user name change to Dr Hyperbole

TIA

 

[Dr Oadi]

Maybe America should spend its defense budget on defending the lower 48 ( let's face it some island wants their kingdom back and well Alaska is Alaska ) and enjoy what the rest of the civilized world enjoys today thanks to Americas need to be everywhere and defend every one. 

But that's like nationalist and fascist.  

Oooooooo scary.  

 

[Dr Oadi]

Request a user name change to Dr Hyperbole

TIA

How about Americans educate theirselves and see how much they spend on roads schools and bridges ( the liberal mantra ) and see how much is spent servicing the National debt. 

 Deficits and debt doesn't matter. 

 

[timschochet]

Maybe America should spend its defense budget on defending the lower 48 ( let's face it some island wants their kingdom back and well Alaska is Alaska ) and enjoy what the rest of the civilized world enjoys today thanks to Americas need to be everywhere and defend every one. 

But that's like nationalist and fascist.  

Oooooooo scary.  

So we should pull out of NATO? Close down our bases in South Korea and Japan? Let North Korea have South Korea and China have Taiwan, and Islamists control the Middle East? Is that your solution? 

 

[Doctor Detroit]

How about Americans educate theirselves and see how much they spend on roads schools and bridges ( the liberal mantra ) and see how much is spent servicing the National debt. 

 Deficits and debt doesn't matter. 

Don't matter?

 

[Dr Oadi]

So we should pull out of NATO? Close down our bases in South Korea and Japan? Let North Korea have South Korea and China have Taiwan, and Islamists control the Middle East? Is that your solution? 

We should have ended NATO after the wall fell and Germany was reunited.  Just because we end military alliances doesn't mean we go to war with those Nations.  America as a Switzerland sounds ####### great to me.  

 

[Doctor Detroit]

The real problem with America, is the inability to articulate our concerns over domestic and international matters in a logical manner.  We just Dr Oadi it, and pray for no one to notice how moronic and isolated we really are in our thinking. 

 

[Dr Oadi]

The real problem with America, is the inability to articulate our concerns over domestic and international matters in a logical manner.  We just Dr Oadi it, and pray for no one to notice how moronic and isolated we really are in our thinking. 

Everything has to be complicated. It's really never simple. Like I said deficits and debt doesn't matter. Are we at 19 trillion yet?  

Maybe when the interest paid servicing the debt is equal to the defense budget instead of just roads schools and bridges you can articulate our way out of it. 

 

[renesauz]

Here it is: 

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-the-us-military-spends-its-billions-2015-8

Where are we going to cut? 

Start with the low hanging fruit. Our military is, far and away, the most advanced in the world. Why do we need to spend 64 BILLION in R&D or 90 BILLION for "NEW weapons systems" (when the systems being replaced are already the best out there?)

Plenty of other spots in there, but cutting those by 30% would fix a ton of other issues we face, whil not being so much that we face any real danger of anyone catching up to us

 

[renesauz]

This is why it always shukes me a bit when people rave on about how expensive Bernie's plans are while completely ignoring Trump/Cruz/Rubio's calls to "rebuild our military" and start a new ground war overseas, nevermind the tax cuts.  Are there any analysis out there on how expensive these things would be vs. free college/healthcare?

This bothers me more than a little bit. Our military spending is, for lack of anything remotely resembling a better word, obscene. And for anyone to shout down Bernie's plans as "too expensive" while simultaneously calling for MORE military spending is beyond obscene...it's flat out disgusting

 

[Thunderlips]

Repeal the 19th Amendment. 

 

[slackjawedyokel]

War, war never changes.

Welcome to the Fallout.