The teaching of our history: critical race theory and The 1619 Project (1 Viewer)

[Caveman33]

Not sure what this is implying

It was meant as a generic statement regarding my thoughts on grade inflation and how giving good grades results in being a good teacher.  Such teachers are less likely to receive a student complaint.  It is not about you specifically as I have no knowledge of your teaching or grading.

 

[Ilov80s]

It was meant as a generic statement regarding my thoughts on grade inflation and how giving good grades results in being a good teacher.  Such teachers are less likely to receive a student complaint.  It is not about you specifically as I have no knowledge of your teaching or grading.

Gotcha. I will say in my experience, the wealthier the school district the more grade inflation that is happening. The district I work at now is upper middle class and it’s so much easier than the working class district I was in before. These parents are much quicker to complain if a kid doesn’t get the score the parent wanted. 

 

[Caveman33]

Gotcha. I will say in my experience, the wealthier the school district the more grade inflation that is happening. The district I work at now is upper middle class and it’s so much easier than the working class district I was in before. These parents are much quicker to complain if a kid doesn’t get the score the parent wanted. 

Makes sense to me as these are the helicopter parents who are often very involved in their kids lives.  I'm glad my parents weren't that way, but I think super involved parents are better than not involved at all.

 

[geoff8695]

Gotcha. I will say in my experience, the wealthier the school district the more grade inflation that is happening. The district I work at now is upper middle class and it’s so much easier than the working class district I was in before. These parents are much quicker to complain if a kid doesn’t get the score the parent wanted. 

I've witnessed this as well.

In a community where education is HIGHLY valued, I would spend an inordinate amount of time having to deal with helicopter parents.

Where I teach now, the challenge is getting more parents to partner with me and increase academic and behavioral expectations for their children.

 

[timschochet]

Correct.  I think the point that FW is driving at, is that not only are there more aid/grant opportunities for minorities vs white students but the most competitive schools also have lower acceptance standards for minorities.  Not sure why Tim claimed "College admissions and financial aid actively discriminate against whites" as false, I would enjoy debating him on this topic.

I’m not going to argue this too much because we’ve discussed it so many times before, but affirmative action for blacks is not the same as discrimination against whites. And @jon_mx’s endlessly tiresome assertion, that whites have become victims in modern society, is both wrong and poisonous. 

 

[Ilov80s]

Makes sense to me as these are the helicopter parents who are often very involved in their kids lives.  I'm glad my parents weren't that way, but I think super involved parents are better than not involved at all.

I've witnessed this as well.

In a community where education is HIGHLY valued, I would spend an inordinate amount of time having to deal with helicopter parents.

Where I teach now, the challenge is getting more parents to partner with me and increase academic and behavioral expectations for their children.

Yes I will say the school I am at I think is a good balance. The lower SES school had so many totally uninvolved parents (across racial/ethnic lines). The school I am at now there is a lot of involvement but they are usually reasonable. I know some people who teach at really upper class public schools in some of the wealthiest districts in the country and it sounds like a nightmare. A lot of, “listen here I’m a lawyer and you’re just a teacher” and “my dads makes more money a month than you do a year” or hiring advocates who get paid by the hour and just basically harass the school until they just give in to whatever demand.
 

Anyway, maybe we should stop since this is off topic 

 

[jon_mx]

Your last sentence in the post is the only one that’s accurate. 

Your level of denial is not surprising.  

 

[FairWarning]

Gotcha. I will say in my experience, the wealthier the school district the more grade inflation that is happening. The district I work at now is upper middle class and it’s so much easier than the working class district I was in before. These parents are much quicker to complain if a kid doesn’t get the score the parent wanted. 

My brother will agree - the parents are the bigger problem.  
 

 

[KarmaPolice]

You said it well there, "putting it under the CRT umbrella."  That is exactly what both sides of this argument are doing.  What is CRT, anyway?

I don't even know what that means
(No one knows what it means, but it's provocative)

The side that you have aligned with is advocating for teachers to employ their social and political thoughts into their daily teaching.  Do you support that?

No, I would hope that teachers would be able to teach their classes, even history/current events, without it being overt what their political leanings are.   

I also hope that teachers are given tools to work with a wide variety of kids, from all backgrounds, and have the ability to address concerns or topics like race/CRT if they come up.    The "side" I am on is trying to wade through the BS and trying to figure out what people are defining CRT as, and if it is in fact getting taught at this level, or it's just to the level where teachers are attending conferences on their own time and/or are being given info about CRT to address it as it comes up.   IMO most of the examples I am seeing are leaning to the 2nd of those scenarios.  

 

[jon_mx]

I’m not going to argue this too much because we’ve discussed it so many times before, but affirmative action for blacks is not the same as discrimination against whites. And @jon_mx’s endlessly tiresome assertion, that whites have become victims in modern society, is both wrong and poisonous. 

The poisonous is the hateful propaganda put out by the left.   The left is using terrible practices in the past to justify horrible practices of today.  The left has created this hate-filled society pitting everyone against whites.  It is dreadful the mental gymnastics they use to justify and promote such bigotry.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

An official district wide CRT curriculum committee was formed this Spring; anti-racism books were being distributed to some educators at the end of the end of the school year.

I :think: we will be implementing some form of CRT in the classrooms beginning this fall.

I don't :know: exactly what it will look like, but I have concerns...

Please keep us posted on this.   Very interested if these books are for the teachers themselves, or if it's actually something that is being introduced for a class (what grade, class level, for how long, is it replacing something else, etc.. ) 

 

[geoff8695]

Please keep us posted on this.   Very interested if these books are for the teachers themselves, or if it's actually something that is being introduced for a class (what grade, class level, for how long, is it replacing something else, etc.. ) 

I am a junior high school science teacher, and didn't personally receive a book. It was an Ibram X. Kendi book for adults, so this would have been for teachers. They may have been for the members of the CRT curriculum committee or possibly for social studies or language arts teachers.

There were a number of check out duties to perform on the last day of school, so I didn't have time to ask questions. I expect to know more when we return in the fall.

 

[Ilov80s]

I am a junior high school science teacher, and didn't personally receive a book. It was an Ibram X. Kendi book for adults, so this would have been for teachers. They may have been for the members of the CRT curriculum committee or possibly for social studies or language arts teachers.

There were a number of check out duties to perform on the last day of school, so I didn't have time to ask questions. I expect to know more when we return in the fall.

I think something like that was offered to teachers who wanted it. I think one of our APs also led some group for any teachers interested. My opinion on it was that it was mostly CYA so the district can check a box saying “look we are taking this issue seriously and trying to be proactive with our minority community” because outside of maybe 2 emails all year about this, I never heard it mentioned or discussed any other point. 

 

[geoff8695]

I think something like that was offered to teachers who wanted it. I think one of our APs also led some group for any teachers interested. My opinion on it was that it was mostly CYA so the district can check a box saying “look we are taking this issue seriously and trying to be proactive with for minority community” because outside of maybe 2 emails all year about this, I never heard it mentioned or discussed any other point. 

This is where we were at last summer as well...

The potential difference this year is that we now have a paid district CRT committee. I don't know for sure what that will mean going forward, but it certainly increases the possibility that we will be implementing some form of curriculum going forward. I honestly don't :know: that it will happen, or even what it might look like.

 

[geoff8695]

Side note: I don't do movies in the classroom - but at the end of the year grades are finalized several days before the last day of school; I do like to show my students the movie Spare Parts. Highly recommend it if you haven't seen it...

I'm a science teacher in a predominantly Hispanic immigrant community, so this is right in our wheelhouse. If you're not familiar with that movie, it's based on a true story about undocumented students from Arizona who formed an underwater robotics club at a high school near Phoenix around 10 years ago, and entered a national competition against robotics clubs from premier institutions of higher education (MIT, Stanford, etc.). It also presents relatable real life conflicts that some of my students and their families face. My biggest concern is that it might hit too close to home for some, so I do try to be on the lookout for those kinds of issues. I'm not trying to put anyone through a traumatic experience.

At the end of the movie they show the real life students and what happened to them after the competition. Many of my students are floored that it's not JUST a movie. It's bitter sweet and amazing at the same time. It moves me and some of my students to tears, and hopefully provides inspiration to overcome all sorts of obstacles in education and in life.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

The poisonous is the hateful propaganda put out by the left.   The left is using terrible practices in the past to justify horrible practices of today.  The left has created this hate-filled society pitting everyone against whites.  It is dreadful the mental gymnastics they use to justify and promote such bigotry.  

These are just culture war statements. I respect your opinion and respectfully submit that this type of rhetoric is also part of the problem. 

I agree that the default setting for any legislature should be to avoid getting into the weeds on curriculum.  State legislators don't have any special expertise in any particular discipline, so they should leave the details to the people who do.  

But that doesn't relieve legislators of their obligation to keep the curriculum between the guardrails.  They do have the right to tell instructors that they can't advocate for their favorite presidential candidate during history class, for example.  They also have the right to tell instructors that they can't use their history class as a vehicle for telling everybody how great Christianity is.  Legislators should probably refrain from telling instructors how to teach the Missouri Compromise or the Platt Amendment, but it's completely reasonable and actually kind of obligatory for them to ensure that history classes cover actual history and not other stuff masquerading as history.

The question here is "Is this actual history, or is this just dressed-up ideology?"  When it comes to teaching about slavery, and specifically that slavery was both bad and widespread, this is something that absolutely ought to be front and center in any US history course.  When it comes to something like the white privilege conference mentioned above, it's obviously more ideological/religious than that.  I'm not persuaded that legislatures need to intervene and I'm more strongly of the opinion that their intervention is likely to make things worse, but the idea that the state has no role in how public schools operate seems extremely wrong.  

Edit: Another example would be if a state was using history textbooks that said downplayed slavery, said that slaves were basically happy and well cared-for by their loving masters, that the north started the civil war out of nowhere, and that emancipation made black people worse off.  Every once in a while, somebody stumbles upon something like this being used in some backwater classroom someplace, and we all correctly recognize that it's a failure of state oversight that somebody should step in and fix over the objections of local school administrators if necessary.

This is the type of solution-oriented take that folks can hopefully agree upon. I agree with this approach, and it seems that agreement is shared by members of "both sides". 

 

[Manster]

I was trying to read above and realized it was mostly some teachers #####ing about parents.....cool

 

[jon_mx]

These are just culture war statements. I respect your opinion and respectfully submit that this type of rhetoric is also part of the problem. 

This is the type of solution-oriented take that folks can hopefully agree upon. I agree with this approach, and it seems that agreement is shared by members of "both sides". 

It really does not scratch the surface of providing a solution.  CRT is just one symptom of a much bigger problem.  It is politically correct to call out whites as a race in the most belitting and hateful terms imaginable in a way which would be condemned if it was followed by any other color or race or religion.  Most posters in this forum routinely dismiss and even mock the viewpoint of 40 percent of the population.  Sure a lot of white people grew up in an upper middle class loving two-parent home.  But many if not most of whites did not have that dream up bringing. 

I sincerely find it very disturbing that supposedly enlightened people can have contempt and zero empathy towards 40 percent of the population.  There is a reason why these people hate the left, and it starts with the left belittling them as human beings.  

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

It really does not scratch the surface of providing a solution.  CRT is just one symptom of a much bigger problem.  It is politically correct to call out whites as a race in the most belitting and hateful terms imaginable in a way which would be condemned if it was followed by any other color or race or religion.  Most posters in this forum routinely dismiss and even mock the viewpoint of 40 percent of the population.  Sure a lot of white people grew up in an upper middle class loving two-parent home.  But many if not most of whites did not have that dream up bringing. 

I sincerely find it very disturbing that supposedly enlightened people can have contempt and zero empathy towards 40 percent of the population.  There is a reason why these people hate the left, and it starts with the left belittling them as human beings.  

Yes, I was posting within the context of CRT. I agree with IK's take on the approach within schools there, and I think it does provide a solution within the context of this thread/topic.

As for the rest, those are just more culture war statements, couched in the most extreme language and lacking of any nuance. "The most belittling and hateful terms imaginable toward 40% of the population". Link for that? Rhetorical question, I'm sure it's "all the posters on the left" or whatever.

I do appreciate your insight. I think the viewpoint you bring up is certainly representative of how a segment of the population feels. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

It really does not scratch the surface of providing a solution.  CRT is just one symptom of a much bigger problem.  It is politically correct to call out whites as a race in the most belitting and hateful terms imaginable in a way which would be condemned if it was followed by any other color or race or religion.  Most posters in this forum routinely dismiss and even mock the viewpoint of 40 percent of the population.  Sure a lot of white people grew up in an upper middle class loving two-parent home.  But many if not most of whites did not have that dream up bringing. 

I sincerely find it very disturbing that supposedly enlightened people can have contempt and zero empathy towards 40 percent of the population.  There is a reason why these people hate the left, and it starts with the left belittling them as human beings.  

you and BR are two peas in a pod.  You post stuff like the bolded while doing the exact same thing.   How many posts between you two in a day are of this nature towards lefties or the left? 

 

[timschochet]

I think @jon_mx may be a lost cause, but this post is for other white conservative types who find sympathy in whats he’s written here: 

Liberals don’t hate you. Even 95% of leftists don’t hate you. A small number of very radical folks do, but they don’t speak for the rest. Those who seek progressive change in this country don’t do it out of hatred for white people, they are trying to correct what they perceive to be centuries of injustice that confines into the present day. You can disagree with their ideas and proposals and outlook, but they do not have bad motivations or evil intent. Please believe this. 

 

[jon_mx]

Yes, I was posting within the context of CRT. I agree with IK's take on the approach within schools there, and I think it does provide a solution within the context of this thread/topic.

As for the rest, those are just more culture war statements, couched in the most extreme language and lacking of any nuance. "The most belittling and hateful terms imaginable toward 40% of the population". Link for that? Rhetorical question, I'm sure it's "all the posters on the left" or whatever.

I do appreciate your insight. I think the viewpoint you bring up is certainly representative of how a segment of the population feels. 

I don't see one ounce of extremism in pointing out that throwing terms like white priviledge, racists. white nationalists, fascists, white supremist like candy is offensive.  

 

[jon_mx]

I think @jon_mx may be a lost cause, but this post is for other white conservative types who find sympathy in whats he’s written here: 

Liberals don’t hate you. Even 95% of leftists don’t hate you. A small number of very radical folks do, but they don’t speak for the rest. Those who seek progressive change in this country don’t do it out of hatred for white people, they are trying to correct what they perceive to be centuries of injustice that confines into the present day. You can disagree with their ideas and proposals and outlook, but they do not have bad motivations or evil intent. Please believe this. 

If you don't hate people, then stop using bigoted terms like white priviledge or fascists to describe people.  

 

[jon_mx]

you and BR are two peas in a pod.  You post stuff like the bolded while doing the exact same thing.   How many posts between you two in a day are of this nature towards lefties or the left? 

Easily a majority of what I consider leftists in this forum are very dismissive and lack empathy for the rual poor white conservatives.  And you and Tim would be in that majority.  I do not dismiss people using their race as ammunition.  That is a leftist tactic which I find inexcusable.  

 

[timschochet]

If you don't hate people, then stop using bigoted terms like white priviledge or fascists to describe people.  

White privilege isn’t a bigoted term. I believe it’s a reality that you and I enjoy. You may disagree with that. But those who use such a term are not being bigoted. 
 

I agree that the term fascist is overused. It has a very specific meaning and usually it’s use is not at all accurate. But it used to describe extreme right wingers in the way that “communist” is often used to describe extreme progressives. I don’t think either term is accurate in most cases. 

 

[timschochet]

Easily a majority of what I consider leftists in this forum are very dismissive and lack empathy for the rual poor white conservatives.  And you and Tim would be in that majority.  I do not dismiss people using their race as ammunition.  That is a leftist tactic which I find inexcusable.  

I don’t believe that I am either dismissive of rural poor white conservatives, or lack empathy for them. 

 

[jon_mx]

White privilege isn’t a bigoted term. I believe it’s a reality that you and I enjoy. You may disagree with that. But those who use such a term are not being bigoted. 
 

I agree that the term fascist is overused. It has a very specific meaning and usually it’s use is not at all accurate. But it used to describe extreme right wingers in the way that “communist” is often used to describe extreme progressives. I don’t think either term is accurate in most cases. 

Labling someone as priviledged based solely on skin color is as bigoted as it gets.  Is some 12 year old white kid dying of cancer priviledged?  Is some white person who was sexually abused priviledged.  Is a white homeless person priviledged?  How the term is used everyday is so damn offensive.  It is the most widely used bigoted term of today.  And yes, it is often used in the most hateful, belittling and disgusting context which dehumanizes the person it was directed at.  

 

[jon_mx]

I don’t believe that I am either dismissive of rural poor white conservatives, or lack empathy for them. 

On this page alone there are several instances of your dismissivess.   Here is one example:

I think @jon_mx may be a lost cause, but this post is for other white conservative types

And a second example:

And @jon_mx’s endlessly tiresome assertion, that whites have become victims in modern society, is both wrong and poisonous. 

Why is it poisonous to point out how much of an Insult most white people feel when the term white priviledge is thrown in their face?  Why is it so hard to consider that these white folks are people too and can be offended?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Labling someone as priviledged based solely on skin color is as bigoted as it gets.  Is some 12 year old white kid dying of cancer priviledged?  Is some white person who was sexually abused priviledged.  Is a white homeless person priviledged?  How the term is used everyday is so damn offensive.  It is the most widely used bigoted term of today.  And yes, it is often used in the most hateful, belittling and disgusting context which dehumanizes the person it was directed at.  

"White privilege" doesn't mean that all white people are on easy street.  It just means that all else equal, it's easier to be white than it is to be black in our society.  That doesn't seem at all controversial to me, and t's certainly not bigoted or dehumanizing.

This has been explained to you a bunch of times already.

 

[KarmaPolice]

"White privilege" doesn't mean that all white people are on easy street.  It just means that all else equal, it's easier to be white than it is to be black in our society.  That doesn't seem at all controversial to me, and t's certainly not bigoted or dehumanizing.

This has been explained to you a bunch of times already.

Correct.  Jon's retort gave me pause and I reflected a bit.   IMO the only posts where it would come across that I don't have empathy for poor whites if we are talking about systemic issues and I say that blacks might have more barriers or that have it X% harder.   That is not the same as having no empathy for poor whites.  

 

[jon_mx]

"White privilege" doesn't mean that all white people are on easy street.  It just means that all else equal, it's easier to be white than it is to be black in our society.  That doesn't seem at all controversial to me, and t's certainly not bigoted or dehumanizing.

This has been explained to you a bunch of times already.

Sure, I have heard the ivory tower explanation of the term.  Which sounds really nice.  But in the real world I have seen how the term is used and it has very little relation to what you describe.  It is used to dismiss white people from the discussion. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

I am a junior high school science teacher, and didn't personally receive a book. It was an Ibram X. Kendi book for adults, so this would have been for teachers. They may have been for the members of the CRT curriculum committee or possibly for social studies or language arts teachers.

There were a number of check out duties to perform on the last day of school, so I didn't have time to ask questions. I expect to know more when we return in the fall.

I think something like that was offered to teachers who wanted it. I think one of our APs also led some group for any teachers interested. My opinion on it was that it was mostly CYA so the district can check a box saying “look we are taking this issue seriously and trying to be proactive with our minority community” because outside of maybe 2 emails all year about this, I never heard it mentioned or discussed any other point. 

This was the thought that I had.   Thanks for the posts you two - good to have teachers perspective and input on this.  

On that note - it can't get said enough - thank you for what you do.  (and sorry if I missed any other teachers posting or lurking in here).   Myself and many parents got a taste of the teacher role over the past year and it really hit home the service you provide for our kids.  

 

[timschochet]

On this page alone there are several instances of your dismissivess.   Here is one example:

I think @jon_mx may be a lost cause, but this post is for other white conservative types

And a second example:

And @jon_mx’s endlessly tiresome assertion, that whites have become victims in modern society, is both wrong and poisonous. 

Why is it poisonous to point out how much of an Insult most white people feel when the term white priviledge is thrown in their face?  Why is it so hard to consider that these white folks are people too and can be offended?

I have no idea how my comments you quoted  have anything to do with respect for rural white people. 

 

[timschochet]

Sure, I have heard the ivory tower explanation of the term.  Which sounds really nice.  But in the real world I have seen how the term is used and it has very little relation to what you describe.  It is used to dismiss white people from the discussion. 

I have no idea how you hear it used in the “real world”. I hear it used like this: if you’re driving in a nice neighborhood, police don’t eye you suspiciously and stop you at the drop of a hat. If they DO stop you, you don’t have to be in fear for your life. If you’re shopping in a clothing store, the employees don’t follow you around concerned that you might shoplift. If you walk by an old white lady, she doesn’t clutch her purse protectively and glare at you in alarm. 
All of these items and many many more represent the privilege that you and I have of being white; we never have to worry about such things. I don’t believe it’s bigoted or dismissive to point any of this out. 

 

[Ilov80s]

This was the thought that I had.   Thanks for the posts you two - good to have teachers perspective and input on this.  

On that note - it can't get said enough - thank you for what you do.  (and sorry if I missed any other teachers posting or lurking in here).   Myself and many parents got a taste of the teacher role over the past year and it really hit home the service you provide for our kids.  

I appreciate it but it’s also one of those things that I don’t feel a need for any special gratitude. I love my job and can’t imagine doing much else. Also the kids tend to be a lot better behaved at school with their teachers than they are at home. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve met with parents and been like, “your kid is so well behaved and just a model student” and the parent tells me the kid is a monster at home. Being a parent is a heck of a tough job and I give a ton of respect to people who have taken on that responsibility. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

Geoff's post got me thinking.   Is one of the standard books people are given about this the Ibram X. Kendi book?    Have many around here read the book, and is it specifically tied in to CRT, or is it more the popular go-to that tries to break down and address anti-racism.   

I have not read it yet, and I will admit that I had a pre-conceived opinion of it and him (based on what, I don't know).  I was really impressed with him on a podcast interview with him and then over the first couple episodes of his podcast.  

 

[Manster]

I appreciate it but it’s also one of those things that I don’t feel a need for any special gratitude. I love my job and can’t imagine doing much else. Also the kids tend to be a lot better behaved at school with their teachers than they are at home. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve met with parents and been like, “your kid is so well behaved and just a model student” and the parent tells me the kid is a monster at home. Being a parent is a heck of a tough job and I give a ton of respect to people who have taken on that responsibility. 

It's normal for kids to act out where they feel safe ( home)......or that's how it should be anyway.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Geoff's post got me thinking.   Is one of the standard books people are given about this the Ibram X. Kendi book?    Have many around here read the book, and is it specifically tied in to CRT, or is it more the popular go-to that tries to break down and address anti-racism.   

I have not read it yet, and I will admit that I had a pre-conceived opinion of it and him (based on what, I don't know).  I was really impressed with him on a podcast interview with him and then over the first couple episodes of his podcast.  

I read How to be an Anti-Racist around this time last year.  I read it for three reasons.  First, it was obviously topical with all the BLM protests going on.  Second, I had heard of this book before and it was at or near the top of the best-seller list, which made it a logical candidate for random reading.  Third, and this was more important than I care to admit, I read a review of Kendi's book that was so negative that I thought there was no way that the author was describing Kendi's views accurately.  It seemed to me that Kendi was probably having his positions consistently misstated and I thought it was worthwhile to learn more about his opinions in his own words instead of relying on others.

I was wrong.  His book really is that bad.  Whatever random quotes you've seen pulled from it probably do actually provide a pretty accurate picture of Kendi's argument.  In fact, Kendi doesn't really present an "argument" as much as he just strings together a bunch of declarative sentences, most of which are just raw assertions with no real logical force behind any of them.  This sounds like an odd thing to say about an academic, but I'm honestly sure that Kendi truly understands what circular reasoning is -- I mean, I'm sure he could define what that is, but he doesn't seem to think that it's a concept that applies to him as well as other people.

(About half the book is autobiographical, so to be fair, it's not really intended to be a deeply-argued polemic.  But it doesn't even make a token effort to actually support any of its arguments).  

Kendi's book is only tangentially connected to CRT.  Real CRT scholars would not consider Kendi one of their own, and Kendi would not consider himself a CRT scholar, so there's agreement there.  That said, Kendi's "thesis" (we're using the term very loosely here) is that all observed disparities between racial groups must be caused by racism (1).  That's at least CRT-adjacent, but it's like a very dumb person's view of what CRT is, not what steel-manned CRT argues.    

1. I know it sounds like I'm strawmanning him, but trust me, that's really his position and I didn't believe it either until I read the book.      

 

[geoff8695]

Geoff's post got me thinking.   Is one of the standard books people are given about this the Ibram X. Kendi book?    Have many around here read the book, and is it specifically tied in to CRT, or is it more the popular go-to that tries to break down and address anti-racism.   

I have not read it yet, and I will admit that I had a pre-conceived opinion of it and him (based on what, I don't know).  I was really impressed with him on a podcast interview with him and then over the first couple episodes of his podcast.  

I usually prefer to consume podcasts/videos/audible books, but have not personally read/listened to Kendi's work. I can neither confirm nor deny anyone's take on him, but I will admit that other black intellectuals I listen to have caused me to steer away from him.

Here's a portion of last summer's recommended reading list for the voluntary administrator/teacher book club:

Starter Kit

Intermediate Kit

Topic Specifics

 

[Manster]

I read How to be an Anti-Racist around this time last year.  I read it for three reasons.  First, it was obviously topical with all the BLM protests going on.  Second, I had heard of this book before and it was at or near the top of the best-seller list, which made it a logical candidate for random reading.  Third, and this was more important than I care to admit, I read a review of Kendi's book that was so negative that I thought there was no way that the author was describing Kendi's views accurately.  It seemed to me that Kendi was probably having his positions consistently misstated and I thought it was worthwhile to learn more about his opinions in his own words instead of relying on others.

I was wrong.  His book really is that bad.  Whatever random quotes you've seen pulled from it probably do actually provide a pretty accurate picture of Kendi's argument.  In fact, Kendi doesn't really present an "argument" as much as he just strings together a bunch of declarative sentences, most of which are just raw assertions with no real logical force behind any of them.  This sounds like an odd thing to say about an academic, but I'm honestly sure that Kendi truly understands what circular reasoning is -- I mean, I'm sure he could define what that is, but he doesn't seem to think that it's a concept that applies to him as well as other people.

(About half the book is autobiographical, so to be fair, it's not really intended to be a deeply-argued polemic.  But it doesn't even make a token effort to actually support any of its arguments).  

Kendi's book is only tangentially connected to CRT.  Real CRT scholars would not consider Kendi one of their own, and Kendi would not consider himself a CRT scholar, so there's agreement there.  That said, Kendi's "thesis" (we're using the term very loosely here) is that all observed disparities between racial groups must be caused by racism (1).  That's at least CRT-adjacent, but it's like a very dumb person's view of what CRT is, not what steel-manned CRT argues.    

1. I know it sounds like I'm strawmanning him, but trust me, that's really his position and I didn't believe it either until I read the book.      

Maybe Kendi's just trying to capitalize, given the current climate?

 

[the moops]

Maybe Kendi's just trying to capitalize, given the current climate?

How to be an Anti-Racist was published almost 2 years ago and he started writing it after his other book on racism was published in 2016.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I read How to be an Anti-Racist around this time last year.  I read it for three reasons.  First, it was obviously topical with all the BLM protests going on.  Second, I had heard of this book before and it was at or near the top of the best-seller list, which made it a logical candidate for random reading.  Third, and this was more important than I care to admit, I read a review of Kendi's book that was so negative that I thought there was no way that the author was describing Kendi's views accurately.  It seemed to me that Kendi was probably having his positions consistently misstated and I thought it was worthwhile to learn more about his opinions in his own words instead of relying on others.

I was wrong.  His book really is that bad.  Whatever random quotes you've seen pulled from it probably do actually provide a pretty accurate picture of Kendi's argument.  In fact, Kendi doesn't really present an "argument" as much as he just strings together a bunch of declarative sentences, most of which are just raw assertions with no real logical force behind any of them.  This sounds like an odd thing to say about an academic, but I'm honestly sure that Kendi truly understands what circular reasoning is -- I mean, I'm sure he could define what that is, but he doesn't seem to think that it's a concept that applies to him as well as other people.

(About half the book is autobiographical, so to be fair, it's not really intended to be a deeply-argued polemic.  But it doesn't even make a token effort to actually support any of its arguments).  

Kendi's book is only tangentially connected to CRT.  Real CRT scholars would not consider Kendi one of their own, and Kendi would not consider himself a CRT scholar, so there's agreement there.  That said, Kendi's "thesis" (we're using the term very loosely here) is that all observed disparities between racial groups must be caused by racism (1).  That's at least CRT-adjacent, but it's like a very dumb person's view of what CRT is, not what steel-manned CRT argues.    

1. I know it sounds like I'm strawmanning him, but trust me, that's really his position and I didn't believe it either until I read the book.      

Thanks for the reply.   

Am I accurately assessing his argument this way that "racist" is any idea/law/system that further promotes inequities between races or somebody who promotes or agrees with said idea/law/system ?

 

[Ilov80s]

It's normal for kids to act out where they feel safe ( home)......or that's how it should be anyway.

Oh for sure. We always show the worst of us to the ones we are closest too. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

I usually prefer to consume podcasts/videos/audible books, but have not personally read/listened to Kendi's work. I can neither confirm nor deny anyone's take on him, but I will admit that other black intellectuals I listen to have caused me to steer away from him.

Here's a portion of last summer's recommended reading list for the voluntary administrator/teacher book club:

Starter Kit

Intermediate Kit

Topic Specifics

I am interested to know what those reasons are.  

Also, those links didn't work for me.  

 

[BladeRunner]

Where do you get this nonsense? Sorry but that’s what it is. 

OH,  Tiim.

Minorities have a much broader path to college than whites in this day and age.  We throw money and programs at them all day long.

YOU'RE the one that is wrong here.  As I pointed out in the other thread, you're severely uninformed on a LOT of what's being discussed in threads.  You walk in, decree something isn't true because you said so and then act like that's the end of it.

 

[BladeRunner]

An official district wide CRT curriculum committee was formed this Spring; anti-racism books were being distributed to some educators at the end of the end of the school year.

I :think: we will be implementing some form of CRT in the classrooms beginning this fall.

I don't :know: exactly what it will look like, but I have concerns...

The naysayers in here will continue to deny its being implemented anywhere.  Heck, apparently CRT is this imaginary thing that doesn't exist and proclaim "what's wrong with teaching history"?  If it was that simple we wouldn't be discussing this issue.

That's where were at right now.

 

[Ilov80s]

At the most basic level, here are things I’ve seen/heard from teachers in classrooms with minorities in them:

- that’s a weird name, how do you expect someone to say that? And variations on that to Black students and Arabic students 

- We are going to learn about African history now even though it’s not very important but we have to cover it quickly before we get back to the good stuff 

- Asking someone if they have a boyfriend, when she says she has a girlfriend the teacher responding with something like “oh in one of those phases? Get over it and find a boyfriend before you do something you regret”

- Girl dating black guy, “Are you parents really ok with this?”

- Teacher telling me he didn’t want a kid with autism in his class. I explained the kid was a good student and that he would like him if he gave him a chance. Just don’t call on him in class because he’s not so good speaking like that but he’s an A student, will do all the work, study, etc. Teacher intentionally kept calling on the kid the first week so that the kid was so upset I just switched him to another teacher. 

This stuff happens and is really cringe. I’m not sure the best approaches to fixing things but there’s a lot of room for teachers and all people to grow, be more understanding and make their world more welcoming. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Thanks for the reply.   

Am I accurately assessing his argument this way that "racist" is any idea/law/system that further promotes inequities between races or somebody who promotes or agrees with said idea/law/system ?

Yeah, I think Kendi would agree with that characterization of his position.  Kendi focuses very strongly on ideas and policies being racist as opposed to people being racist.  In Kendi's view, as I understand it, people are only racist to the degree that they happen to support racist policies, and it's those policies that he really cares about.

 

[Ilov80s]

Yeah, I think Kendi would agree with that characterization of his position.  Kendi focuses very strongly on ideas and policies being racist as opposed to people being racist.  In Kendi's view, as I understand it, people are only racist to the degree that they happen to support racist policies, and it's those policies that he really cares about.

That’s basically what CRT is. It’s not the people to blame and fix but the systems in which people operate. Which is a topic of itself and could be translated across a lot of areas. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

Yeah, I think Kendi would agree with that characterization of his position.  Kendi focuses very strongly on ideas and policies being racist as opposed to people being racist.  In Kendi's view, as I understand it, people are only racist to the degree that they happen to support racist policies, and it's those policies that he really cares about.

That's the idea I got from the little bit of listening to him, but wanted to ask if that was accurate since you read the book.  

Not saying that I agree with all his ideas, but I was just surprised how forgiving he seemed to be towards people and their struggle with these issues and making mistakes along the way.  Didn't come off nearly as militant as I'd imagine from the general descriptions and rants about him and his ideas I had absorbed.