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The Trent Richardson Thread (1 Viewer)

He's on a similar career trajectory. He had only 6 more receptions last year than KAJ did his second season.
I think this was a Pep Hamilton problem.. Trent's at his best when he gets the ball in space. The dance routine doesn't work in between the tackles, it doesn't outside either, but if he makes the appropriate corrections his skill set will work well out there. Mix in what he did between the tackles his rookie year and you have a player.Key word - if.
Certainly don't think Pep is great or anything, but every other Indy RB thrived in his system. This was clearly a Richardson problem when the other dudes (none of whom are really that great) are performing at such a higher degree.
My point is Pep tried to take Richardson and make him fit his system rather than fit his system to Richardson's skill set. The latter works, the former usually does not. Richardson probably would have sucked regardless, but continuing to force feed him out of tight sets when he obviously has a vision/decision making is setting him up to fail. He's shown flashes of grinding out tough yards in traffic, but he is at his best out in space and Pep did not let him do that.
Yeah, I'm not sure that there is a viable NFL running system that is based around getting a RB the ball out in space consistently. The defenses are just too fast to run a ton of outside toss plays, and power sweeps are: A.) primarily a thing of the past and B.) require vision and instant acceleration upfield when the lane appears. The Colts involved Richardson more in the passing game than any other RB, so it's hard to say he was underutilized there, and besides, flipping the ball to any RB a ton in the flat is wasting Luck, and they're not going to do that.

 
Good luck to anyone that decides to draft this bum. Just believe what your eyes tell you ....
By that logic you should draft him because he looked great at Alabama.
No, who would take a player based on how he looked in college versus how he looks in the NFL? I doubt if it were a player you didn't like you would be persuaded by that argument.
Anything that helps you arrive at an accurate understanding of a player's talent level is useful. A lot of people wrote off Marshawn Lynch, Thomas Jones, Cedric Benson, and Reggie Bush early in their NFL careers despite some strong indicators in their draft position and college production that they actually had a lot of talent. That's the value of looking backwards and recognizing that even NFL production can be deceptive as a reflection of a player's ability.

I ended up taking the plunge and grabbing Richardson in my dynasty startup today as RB14 with the 4.05 pick. Can't say I LOVE the pick. I debated a couple options there and decided to roll with him. The college film, draft slot, and skill set are too impressive for me to believe that his NFL results to date provide an accurate picture of who he is. I've read from people who have charted his games that a lot of it comes to horrendous blocking. I think with Satele out, Khaled Holmes into the lineup, Mewhort in, and Dwayne Allen back from injury, they can only improve at creating lanes for him. His understanding the blocking/playbook should be far better and from what I've read he's working hard to bounce back.

Despite the plodder talk, he has physical tools that you can't teach and they haven't just disappeared overnight:

http://i.minus.com/ifsuQprZSldPj.gif

http://www.gfycat.com/RectangularEmptyAddax

http://i.minus.com/ibpoKRlTcEdqZ8.gif

I'm going down with the ship. :banned:

 
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EBF.....that is a true risk pick at that spot. You certainly are swinging forma big hit taking a shot in the 4th. I am curious what your your first three picks were and who was on the board when you took Trent.

There must have been a ton of productive talent at all positions at that spot.

 
got him last night in round 6 pick 4.. as my 3rd back behind lacy, and stacy.

felt pretty good about him there.. i can start anywhere from 1-3 rbs or 1-3 wrs (totaling 4).

so I could use him alot or never.

 
Good luck to anyone that decides to draft this bum. Just believe what your eyes tell you ....
By that logic you should draft him because he looked great at Alabama.
No, who would take a player based on how he looked in college versus how he looks in the NFL? I doubt if it were a player you didn't like you would be persuaded by that argument.
After his rookie season he was a consensus first round draft pick in every format and and after his rookie season plus 2 games an NFL GM gave up a #1 pick for him.
And the GM / team that knew him best was willing to dump him at a huge loss after that same year and two games -- and their stance was pretty much vindicated 100% by Richardson's play post-trade. Look, he might just have struggled due to switching teams, but the vast majority of the evidence suggests pretty strongly that he justs sucks. What he did, FF wise, as a Browns' rookie is irrelevant moving forward; he's not going to get that kind of volume opportunity moving forward on a playoff team unless he can make HUGE strides in effectiveness. The Colts are not going to feed the worst RB in the NFL touches to protect their GM's ego.
So when teams dump players they are always right cause they have the inside scoop?

I wonder how the ATL Falcons feels feel about this comment and their choice to trade Brett Favre?

They must have really known something the rest of the NFL didn't?????

And your assuming Cle's front office has a clue with what they are doing?

Fact is Indy was a young team with their offense still being established last year and CLE's offense sucks and has sucked. Indy was missing their best blocking TE and their guards when Trent was traded to them and Wayne was out so they didn't have a lot of weapons to spread the offense out.

Am I saying he is going to go to the Pro Bowl next year, NO! but I think he will rebound a lot after having an offseason to get adjusted to the new scheme and hopefully get on more of a roll without getting subbed so often.

IMO, He is the the definition of a BUY LOW candidate!

 
I wonder how the ATL Falcons feels feel about this comment and their choice to trade Brett Favre?

They must have really known something the rest of the NFL didn't?????
Yes, they did:

“I had to get him out of Atlanta. . . . I could not sober him up,” Glanville said. “I sent him to a city where at 9:00 at night the only thing that’s open is Chili Joes. You can get it two ways, with or without onions. And that’s what made Brett Favre make a comeback was going to a town that closed down. If I would have traded him to New York, nobody to this day would have known who Brett Favre ever was.”
 
I wonder how the ATL Falcons feels feel about this comment and their choice to trade Brett Favre?

They must have really known something the rest of the NFL didn't?????
Yes, they did:

“I had to get him out of Atlanta. . . . I could not sober him up,” Glanville said. “I sent him to a city where at 9:00 at night the only thing that’s open is Chili Joes. You can get it two ways, with or without onions. And that’s what made Brett Favre make a comeback was going to a town that closed down. If I would have traded him to New York, nobody to this day would have known who Brett Favre ever was.”
So we know we have a hall of fame talent but we cant settle him down so we will just trade him?????

Sounds about right, that's what most teams would do.

In fact, didn't he go to NY and have a decent couple of years?

 
Good luck to anyone that decides to draft this bum. Just believe what your eyes tell you ....
By that logic you should draft him because he looked great at Alabama.
No, who would take a player based on how he looked in college versus how he looks in the NFL? I doubt if it were a player you didn't like you would be persuaded by that argument.
After his rookie season he was a consensus first round draft pick in every format and and after his rookie season plus 2 games an NFL GM gave up a #1 pick for him.
And the GM / team that knew him best was willing to dump him at a huge loss after that same year and two games -- and their stance was pretty much vindicated 100% by Richardson's play post-trade. Look, he might just have struggled due to switching teams, but the vast majority of the evidence suggests pretty strongly that he justs sucks. What he did, FF wise, as a Browns' rookie is irrelevant moving forward; he's not going to get that kind of volume opportunity moving forward on a playoff team unless he can make HUGE strides in effectiveness. The Colts are not going to feed the worst RB in the NFL touches to protect their GM's ego.
So when teams dump players they are always right cause they have the inside scoop?

I wonder how the ATL Falcons feels feel about this comment and their choice to trade Brett Favre?

They must have really known something the rest of the NFL didn't?????

And your assuming Cle's front office has a clue with what they are doing?

Fact is Indy was a young team with their offense still being established last year and CLE's offense sucks and has sucked. Indy was missing their best blocking TE and their guards when Trent was traded to them and Wayne was out so they didn't have a lot of weapons to spread the offense out.

Am I saying he is going to go to the Pro Bowl next year, NO! but I think he will rebound a lot after having an offseason to get adjusted to the new scheme and hopefully get on more of a roll without getting subbed so often.

IMO, He is the the definition of a BUY LOW candidate!
You're going to compare Richardson to Favre? Well, then complete the analogy.

Favre took over a team that was 4-12 the previous year and turned them into a 9-7 team. He was among the top 10 in most statistical categories for QBs and made a bottom half passing O into a top 10 passing O.

Richardson on the other hand couldn't manage to make it to 3.0 ypc while every other RB on the roster managed more than a full 1.0 ypc more and the guy he got benched for, who is now at best the RB3 in SD, put up 2.4 ypc more in the exact same offense running behind the same line.

Not sure why you went this way to defend Richardson, but you might have made little more apt comparison.

 
EBF.....that is a true risk pick at that spot. You certainly are swinging forma big hit taking a shot in the 4th. I am curious what your your first three picks were and who was on the board when you took Trent.

There must have been a ton of productive talent at all positions at that spot.
My first three picks were:

1.06 - Dez

2.05 - Watkins

3.04 - Martin

There were definitely some good players out there. Lynch, Cameron, Harvin, Crabtree, Fitzgerald, and VJax went in the next 10-15 picks. For me it was down to Michael vs. Trent at the pick. Very agonizing decision and I won't know if I got it right for a while. I wanted both and the decision largely came down to who had a better chance to make an immediate impact (Trent) and who was more likely to fall to my next pick (based on ADP -- Michael).

Michael ended up going a few spots ahead of me at 5.06, so I probably won't be getting him in this league. I can live with that, as I believe the high-ceiling RB depth is outstanding in dynasty startups right now. You can get a good player at virtually every level of the draft and I will surely add a couple more.

 
Good luck to anyone that decides to draft this bum. Just believe what your eyes tell you ....
By that logic you should draft him because he looked great at Alabama.
No, who would take a player based on how he looked in college versus how he looks in the NFL? I doubt if it were a player you didn't like you would be persuaded by that argument.
After his rookie season he was a consensus first round draft pick in every format and and after his rookie season plus 2 games an NFL GM gave up a #1 pick for him.
And the GM / team that knew him best was willing to dump him at a huge loss after that same year and two games -- and their stance was pretty much vindicated 100% by Richardson's play post-trade. Look, he might just have struggled due to switching teams, but the vast majority of the evidence suggests pretty strongly that he justs sucks. What he did, FF wise, as a Browns' rookie is irrelevant moving forward; he's not going to get that kind of volume opportunity moving forward on a playoff team unless he can make HUGE strides in effectiveness. The Colts are not going to feed the worst RB in the NFL touches to protect their GM's ego.
So when teams dump players they are always right cause they have the inside scoop?

I wonder how the ATL Falcons feels feel about this comment and their choice to trade Brett Favre?

They must have really known something the rest of the NFL didn't?????

And your assuming Cle's front office has a clue with what they are doing?

Fact is Indy was a young team with their offense still being established last year and CLE's offense sucks and has sucked. Indy was missing their best blocking TE and their guards when Trent was traded to them and Wayne was out so they didn't have a lot of weapons to spread the offense out.

Am I saying he is going to go to the Pro Bowl next year, NO! but I think he will rebound a lot after having an offseason to get adjusted to the new scheme and hopefully get on more of a roll without getting subbed so often.

IMO, He is the the definition of a BUY LOW candidate!
You're going to compare Richardson to Favre? Well, then complete the analogy.

Favre took over a team that was 4-12 the previous year and turned them into a 9-7 team. He was among the top 10 in most statistical categories for QBs and made a bottom half passing O into a top 10 passing O.

Richardson on the other hand couldn't manage to make it to 3.0 ypc while every other RB on the roster managed more than a full 1.0 ypc more and the guy he got benched for, who is now at best the RB3 in SD, put up 2.4 ypc more in the exact same offense running behind the same line.

Not sure why you went this way to defend Richardson, but you might have made little more apt comparison.
I was just stating that just cause one team traded a player doesn't mean they

1) were right by doing so

2) had correction information

3 didn't do it for other reasons

A Player, Like Favre proved, might just not be a good fix in one place and could excel in another

All of what you said above is correct about TRich, but that was last year.

Let me ask you this.

Do you think going to a new team, with a new playbook would be harder for a player to preform in compared to a player who had been there for multiple years and had multiple training camps with?

Obviously the answer is "YES".

I am going to give Richardson a pass on last year due to the midseason trade.

This year he has had the whole offseason and will have training camp to fell more comfortable with his surroundings.

Again, not saying he will light up the NFL but I will all but guarantee he has improved #'s from last year

 
I am going to give Richardson a pass on last year due to the midseason trade.

This year he has had the whole offseason and will have training camp to fell more comfortable with his surroundings.

Again, not saying he will light up the NFL but I will all but guarantee he has improved #'s from last year
Give him a pass? How about suspend reality? It's interesting the excuses that people make for Richardson while alleging such great talent when many allegedly lesser RBs have done much more when asked to step in - when say midseason injuries occur and they've been sitting as 3rd stringers all year. If his talent is that superior, it has to counter a lack of familiarity somewhat, at least until his familiarity has a chance to catch up.

Richardson ypc was better in his first 4 games as a Colt, albeit still only 3.13 ypc, than it was the rest of the way at 2.78 ypc, and he caught SF and SEA in 2 of his first 3 games in IND.

So you're going to guarantee that he'll do better? Hell, he'd almost have to run backwards to do worse.

You could be right. Maybe he is a great RB. But there's almost literally nothing in his pro career to date that supports it. Hence the skepticism. Believing in Richardson is almost an issue of faith right now.

 
Bronco Billy said:
Blackjacks said:
I am going to give Richardson a pass on last year due to the midseason trade.

This year he has had the whole offseason and will have training camp to fell more comfortable with his surroundings.

Again, not saying he will light up the NFL but I will all but guarantee he has improved #'s from last year
Give him a pass? How about suspend reality? It's interesting the excuses that people make for Richardson while alleging such great talent when many allegedly lesser RBs have done much more when asked to step in - when say midseason injuries occur and they've been sitting as 3rd stringers all year. If his talent is that superior, it has to counter a lack of familiarity somewhat, at least until his familiarity has a chance to catch up.

Richardson ypc was better in his first 4 games as a Colt, albeit still only 3.13 ypc, than it was the rest of the way at 2.78 ypc, and he caught SF and SEA in 2 of his first 3 games in IND.

So you're going to guarantee that he'll do better? Hell, he'd almost have to run backwards to do worse.

You could be right. Maybe he is a great RB. But there's almost literally nothing in his pro career to date that supports it. Hence the skepticism. Believing in Richardson is almost an issue of faith right now.
I said I would all BUT guarantee he has improved #'s and I agree they cant go much down.

I just saw a guy in college and glimpses of a guy his rookie year that looked very physical, patient and at time dominating for a rookie.

2nd year he sucked, absolutely. However, like I said earlier, new team, midseason trade and missing olineman and blocking te's could have contributed.

I truly believe he is too talented to lay another egg but I am going off the eye test in the past and not much else

 
Players can improve as they get more experience in the NFL. Look at Thomas Jones. High draft pick, sucked for 3 years, low YPC and everything. Year 4 started to turn things around, and then went on to have 7 solid seasons as a RB. Im sure many people gave up on him his first 3 years and either dropped him or sold him for peanuts and im sure they regretted it. I just think its too early to give up on Trent, hes only 23.

 
Blackjacks said:
Bronco Billy said:
Blackjacks said:
Good luck to anyone that decides to draft this bum. Just believe what your eyes tell you ....
By that logic you should draft him because he looked great at Alabama.
No, who would take a player based on how he looked in college versus how he looks in the NFL? I doubt if it were a player you didn't like you would be persuaded by that argument.
After his rookie season he was a consensus first round draft pick in every format and and after his rookie season plus 2 games an NFL GM gave up a #1 pick for him.
And the GM / team that knew him best was willing to dump him at a huge loss after that same year and two games -- and their stance was pretty much vindicated 100% by Richardson's play post-trade. Look, he might just have struggled due to switching teams, but the vast majority of the evidence suggests pretty strongly that he justs sucks. What he did, FF wise, as a Browns' rookie is irrelevant moving forward; he's not going to get that kind of volume opportunity moving forward on a playoff team unless he can make HUGE strides in effectiveness. The Colts are not going to feed the worst RB in the NFL touches to protect their GM's ego.
So when teams dump players they are always right cause they have the inside scoop?

I wonder how the ATL Falcons feels feel about this comment and their choice to trade Brett Favre?

They must have really known something the rest of the NFL didn't?????

And your assuming Cle's front office has a clue with what they are doing?

Fact is Indy was a young team with their offense still being established last year and CLE's offense sucks and has sucked. Indy was missing their best blocking TE and their guards when Trent was traded to them and Wayne was out so they didn't have a lot of weapons to spread the offense out.

Am I saying he is going to go to the Pro Bowl next year, NO! but I think he will rebound a lot after having an offseason to get adjusted to the new scheme and hopefully get on more of a roll without getting subbed so often.

IMO, He is the the definition of a BUY LOW candidate!
You're going to compare Richardson to Favre? Well, then complete the analogy.

Favre took over a team that was 4-12 the previous year and turned them into a 9-7 team. He was among the top 10 in most statistical categories for QBs and made a bottom half passing O into a top 10 passing O.

Richardson on the other hand couldn't manage to make it to 3.0 ypc while every other RB on the roster managed more than a full 1.0 ypc more and the guy he got benched for, who is now at best the RB3 in SD, put up 2.4 ypc more in the exact same offense running behind the same line.

Not sure why you went this way to defend Richardson, but you might have made little more apt comparison.
I was just stating that just cause one team traded a player doesn't mean they

1) were right by doing so

2) had correction information

3 didn't do it for other reasons

A Player, Like Favre proved, might just not be a good fix in one place and could excel in another
You see the unbelievable hypocrisy in this argument, right?

You made a point that an NFL GM thought he was good enough to pick high. Someone retorted that another NFL GM thought he was bad enough to sell him for far less value than they'd just used to acquire him a year earlier. Your response to that was "well GMs are wrong a lot, here are a couple of players to prove it".

The "GMs are wrong a lot" argument just as easily wipes out your initial argument that a GM thought he was worth acquiring at a high price. You were able to provide a couple of examples of GMs giving up on guys too soon, yet there are literally HUNDREDS upon HUNDREDS of examples of GMs spending a lot to acquire a player and being wrong about him.

You can't have it both ways.

 
Players can improve as they get more experience in the NFL. Look at Thomas Jones. High draft pick, sucked for 3 years, low YPC and everything. Year 4 started to turn things around, and then went on to have 7 solid seasons as a RB. Im sure many people gave up on him his first 3 years and either dropped him or sold him for peanuts and im sure they regretted it. I just think its too early to give up on Trent, hes only 23.
The thing that makes Richardson interesting is that, in most leagues, you don't have to "drop him or sell him for peanuts." If that's the case in an individual league, then sure, obviously he's a hold at this point. But from what I've seen, despite 2013, Richardson has a sizable group of true believers out there who will pay high end RB2 prices for him as a "buy low." It's not "giving up" on the guy if you're trading him for an Alfred Morris, a Cam Newton, a mid 1st, etc. As a former high pick who has struggled hugely, he fits the profile of a guy I'd normally be trying to buy, but the prices haven't dipped nearly enough from what I've seen.

 
Good luck to anyone that decides to draft this bum. Just believe what your eyes tell you ....
By that logic you should draft him because he looked great at Alabama.
No, who would take a player based on how he looked in college versus how he looks in the NFL? I doubt if it were a player you didn't like you would be persuaded by that argument.
After his rookie season he was a consensus first round draft pick in every format and and after his rookie season plus 2 games an NFL GM gave up a #1 pick for him.
And the GM / team that knew him best was willing to dump him at a huge loss after that same year and two games -- and their stance was pretty much vindicated 100% by Richardson's play post-trade. Look, he might just have struggled due to switching teams, but the vast majority of the evidence suggests pretty strongly that he justs sucks. What he did, FF wise, as a Browns' rookie is irrelevant moving forward; he's not going to get that kind of volume opportunity moving forward on a playoff team unless he can make HUGE strides in effectiveness. The Colts are not going to feed the worst RB in the NFL touches to protect their GM's ego.
And then the whole front office (including the coach and offensive coordinator) were fired. Let's not pretend Cleveland is MENSA headquarters... Round and round we go with this argument. TRich supporters will continue to believe despite "our" best efforts to help them "see the light". Personally, I don't make it common practice to jump ship after one down season. Redraft leagues, I can understand. Dynasty leagues, he is a firm hold. An owner in my league cut Alshon Jeffery after his terrible rookie season. Guess who scooped "FatShon" Jeffery up off waivers and reaped the benefits this past year? The lesson? Without trigger happy owners, my roster would look a whole lot different. I wonder what happens if by some strange reason TRich does bounce back. Will the haters still be as active? TBD. God knows the supporters have had to endure the shame. Before you go calling his rookie season unsuccessful because of his "ypc", he was the ninth best back in my league. That's what matters. Points. I don't need the pretty bows and pink ribbons.

 
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i don't see how you can correlate two poor seasons at running back to one poor season at wide reciever.

kind of apples and oranges, don't you think?

 
Good luck to anyone that decides to draft this bum. Just believe what your eyes tell you ....
By that logic you should draft him because he looked great at Alabama.
No, who would take a player based on how he looked in college versus how he looks in the NFL? I doubt if it were a player you didn't like you would be persuaded by that argument.
After his rookie season he was a consensus first round draft pick in every format and and after his rookie season plus 2 games an NFL GM gave up a #1 pick for him.
And the GM / team that knew him best was willing to dump him at a huge loss after that same year and two games -- and their stance was pretty much vindicated 100% by Richardson's play post-trade. Look, he might just have struggled due to switching teams, but the vast majority of the evidence suggests pretty strongly that he justs sucks. What he did, FF wise, as a Browns' rookie is irrelevant moving forward; he's not going to get that kind of volume opportunity moving forward on a playoff team unless he can make HUGE strides in effectiveness. The Colts are not going to feed the worst RB in the NFL touches to protect their GM's ego.
And then the whole front office (including the coach and offensive coordinator) were fired. Let's not pretend Cleveland is MENSA headquarters.
Never said they were. At all. Just pointing out that the Colts willingness to invest a late 1st in Richardson really isn't a compelling positive when balanced against, you know, the way the dude has actually played on the field.

500+ touches worth of mediocrity (and that's generous) on two different teams over two years and getting totally benched for Donald Brown in the playoffs is enough "walks like a duck" for me, but of course YMMV.

 
Players can improve as they get more experience in the NFL. Look at Thomas Jones. High draft pick, sucked for 3 years, low YPC and everything. Year 4 started to turn things around, and then went on to have 7 solid seasons as a RB. Im sure many people gave up on him his first 3 years and either dropped him or sold him for peanuts and im sure they regretted it. I just think its too early to give up on Trent, hes only 23.
The thing that makes Richardson interesting is that, in most leagues, you don't have to "drop him or sell him for peanuts." If that's the case in an individual league, then sure, obviously he's a hold at this point. But from what I've seen, despite 2013, Richardson has a sizable group of true believers out there who will pay high end RB2 prices for him as a "buy low." It's not "giving up" on the guy if you're trading him for an Alfred Morris, a Cam Newton, a mid 1st, etc. As a former high pick who has struggled hugely, he fits the profile of a guy I'd normally be trying to buy, but the prices haven't dipped nearly enough from what I've seen.
yeah i dont agree with the people who say he is the perfect buy low cause his value cant get any lower. Many people still value him and are willing to give him another chance this year but if he sucks again this year most of those people will finally give up on him, dropping his value far lower than it is now

 
i don't see how you can correlate two poor seasons at running back to one poor season at wide reciever.

kind of apples and oranges, don't you think?
The forest beyond the trees... the fact is, it's not good practice to give up on a player after ONE bad season. Especially with so many variables at play. Sometimes we let our emotions and hate for a player cloud our decision making. Even if you hate the guy, it makes no sense to abandon ship after he just finished top 9 the previous year. Who does that?

 
i don't see how you can correlate two poor seasons at running back to one poor season at wide reciever.

kind of apples and oranges, don't you think?
The forest beyond the trees... the fact is, it's not good practice to give up on a player after ONE bad season. Especially with so many variables at play. Sometimes we let our emotions and hate for a player cloud our decision making. Even if you hate the guy, it makes no sense to abandon ship after he just finished top 9 the previous year. Who does that?
so 3.5 YPC is not bad now?

 
i don't see how you can correlate two poor seasons at running back to one poor season at wide reciever.

kind of apples and oranges, don't you think?
The forest beyond the trees... the fact is, it's not good practice to give up on a player after ONE bad season. Especially with so many variables at play. Sometimes we let our emotions and hate for a player cloud our decision making. Even if you hate the guy, it makes no sense to abandon ship after he just finished top 9 the previous year. Who does that?
i sure did. you can look it up earlier in this thread if you're really interested. i watch a fair amount of Browns games and just didn't see it with this guy.

and after reading some great analysis in this very thread, i decided to move on.

hate didn't have anything to do with it, and i do agree with you that when decisions are made emotionally, they rarely end well.

 
i don't see how you can correlate two poor seasons at running back to one poor season at wide reciever.

kind of apples and oranges, don't you think?
The forest beyond the trees... the fact is, it's not good practice to give up on a player after ONE bad season. Especially with so many variables at play. Sometimes we let our emotions and hate for a player cloud our decision making. Even if you hate the guy, it makes no sense to abandon ship after he just finished top 9 the previous year. Who does that?
I'd like a link to even one person who is actually talking about "giving up" on him. As has been stated over and over again, there's no need to "give up" on a player who has, at worst, high RB2 exit value currently. Getting out at that price is nowhere near "giving up."

 
Good luck to anyone that decides to draft this bum. Just believe what your eyes tell you ....
By that logic you should draft him because he looked great at Alabama.
No, who would take a player based on how he looked in college versus how he looks in the NFL? I doubt if it were a player you didn't like you would be persuaded by that argument.
After his rookie season he was a consensus first round draft pick in every format and and after his rookie season plus 2 games an NFL GM gave up a #1 pick for him.
And the GM / team that knew him best was willing to dump him at a huge loss after that same year and two games -- and their stance was pretty much vindicated 100% by Richardson's play post-trade. Look, he might just have struggled due to switching teams, but the vast majority of the evidence suggests pretty strongly that he justs sucks. What he did, FF wise, as a Browns' rookie is irrelevant moving forward; he's not going to get that kind of volume opportunity moving forward on a playoff team unless he can make HUGE strides in effectiveness. The Colts are not going to feed the worst RB in the NFL touches to protect their GM's ego.
And then the whole front office (including the coach and offensive coordinator) were fired. Let's not pretend Cleveland is MENSA headquarters.
Never said they were. At all. Just pointing out that the Colts willingness to invest a late 1st in Richardson really isn't a compelling positive when balanced against, you know, the way the dude has actually played on the field.

500+ touches worth of mediocrity (and that's generous) on two different teams over two years and getting totally benched for Donald Brown in the playoffs is enough "walks like a duck" for me, but of course YMMV.
A few things that can't be ignored:

Damn it Donald is now gone

The team did not draft a running back (when premium ones were available in the second round and beyond).

The team has been impressed with his progress and knowledge of the offense

TRich actually WANTS to be better (he is hungry)

TRIch is participating in his FIRST full offseason program

TRich will finally be seeing continuity in leadership/playcalling that has evaded him in the past (coaching/team change year 2)

TRich will have veteran support (Bradshaw)

TRich will be 23 this year.

All enough for me to hold. Is he a RB1 at this point? No. But the hate for him is borderline ridiculous. It's almost as if some guys in here get off on TRich hate every chance they get. I don't think Miller and Wilson have even received this much hate. And they have finished nowhere near top 9. Let me guess...their ypcs are prettier! Not a personal attack on you two gentlemen, but it's out there. Looking forward to this thing reaching a conclusion sooner rather than later. There can be no excuses after this season. I think that much we can at least agree on.

 
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Good luck to anyone that decides to draft this bum. Just believe what your eyes tell you ....
By that logic you should draft him because he looked great at Alabama.
No, who would take a player based on how he looked in college versus how he looks in the NFL? I doubt if it were a player you didn't like you would be persuaded by that argument.
After his rookie season he was a consensus first round draft pick in every format and and after his rookie season plus 2 games an NFL GM gave up a #1 pick for him.
And the GM / team that knew him best was willing to dump him at a huge loss after that same year and two games -- and their stance was pretty much vindicated 100% by Richardson's play post-trade. Look, he might just have struggled due to switching teams, but the vast majority of the evidence suggests pretty strongly that he justs sucks. What he did, FF wise, as a Browns' rookie is irrelevant moving forward; he's not going to get that kind of volume opportunity moving forward on a playoff team unless he can make HUGE strides in effectiveness. The Colts are not going to feed the worst RB in the NFL touches to protect their GM's ego.
And then the whole front office (including the coach and offensive coordinator) were fired. Let's not pretend Cleveland is MENSA headquarters.
Never said they were. At all. Just pointing out that the Colts willingness to invest a late 1st in Richardson really isn't a compelling positive when balanced against, you know, the way the dude has actually played on the field.500+ touches worth of mediocrity (and that's generous) on two different teams over two years and getting totally benched for Donald Brown in the playoffs is enough "walks like a duck" for me, but of course YMMV.
A few things that can't be ignored:Damn it Donald is now gone

The team did not draft a running back (when premium ones were available in the second round and beyond).

The team has been impressed with his progress and knowledge of the offense

TRich actually WANTS to be better (he is hungry)

TRIch is participating in his FIRST full offseason program

TRich will finally be seeing continuity in leadership/playcalling that has evaded him in the past (coaching/team change year 2)

TRich will have veteran support (Bradshaw)

TRich will be 23 this year.

All enough for me to hold. Is he a RB1 at this point? No. But the hate for him is borderline ridiculous. It's almost as if some guys in here get off on TRich hate every chance they get. I don't think Miller and Wilson have even received this much hate. And they have finished nowhere near top 9. Let me guess...their ypcs are prettier! Not a personal attack on you two gentlemen, but it's out there. Looking forward to this thing reaching a conclusion sooner rather than later. There can be no excuses after this season. I think that much we can at least agree on.
Donald Brown wasn't the issue -- Richardson himself was. Brown leaving means literally nothing -- Richardson was bad enough last year that he'd have been phased out for a street FA if Brown hadn't have been there.There were no premium RBs in this year's draft. The team re-signed Bradshaw and gets Ballard back, so not drafting one also means literally nothing.

The rest of your points are completely intangible coachspeak, offseason fluff, and flat out BS. Trent is "HUNGRY?" :lmao:

The "hate" for Richardson is nothing more than backlash against the absurd hype that the guy generated initially, and now, the laughable excuses for a player who looked like he didn't even belong on an NFL roster last year. We've moved from ribs > bad team > new play book > bad play calling > bad blocking for two years now, while every scrub RB on the planet has outplayed Richardson, and by a ton, too. It's entertaining to watch.

And BTW, you should actually read the Wilson / Miller threads if you think people, and myself in particular, were any less adamant about them being hugely over valued last year. Any time a massive hype train drives a complete unknown player's value up into the stratosphere on smoke and mirrors there are a handful of voices that typically call for some restraint and get labelled "haters." It's just slightly more obvious with Richardson due to even higher expectations (1.01 startup LOL) and an even more epic crapping of the bed.

 
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i don't see how you can correlate two poor seasons at running back to one poor season at wide reciever.

kind of apples and oranges, don't you think?
The forest beyond the trees... the fact is, it's not good practice to give up on a player after ONE bad season. Especially with so many variables at play. Sometimes we let our emotions and hate for a player cloud our decision making. Even if you hate the guy, it makes no sense to abandon ship after he just finished top 9 the previous year. Who does that?
I'd like a link to even one person who is actually talking about "giving up" on him. As has been stated over and over again, there's no need to "give up" on a player who has, at worst, high RB2 exit value currently. Getting out at that price is nowhere near "giving up."

i don't see how you can correlate two poor seasons at running back to one poor season at wide reciever.

kind of apples and oranges, don't you think?
The forest beyond the trees... the fact is, it's not good practice to give up on a player after ONE bad season. Especially with so many variables at play. Sometimes we let our emotions and hate for a player cloud our decision making. Even if you hate the guy, it makes no sense to abandon ship after he just finished top 9 the previous year. Who does that?
I'd like a link to even one person who is actually talking about "giving up" on him. As has been stated over and over again, there's no need to "give up" on a player who has, at worst, high RB2 exit value currently. Getting out at that price is nowhere near "giving up."
Amnesiac did.
 
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LMAO. Ok, the hungry part was a reach but the rest of those points were valid. You dont leave yourself vulnerable at the running back position with one guy coming back from a gimpy neck and the other a gimpy leg. Especially if you dont believe in the one healthy guy you have. Even if your owner is on drugs. The Browns drafted two backs with Gordon facing suspension!!! I think the belief in a rebound is legit (in Indy) and they saw enough last year to realize the issues could be corrected. This is a contending team we are talking about. Why take the risk? Why not sign Hill or Carey? Because they know TRich will be just fine.

 
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LMAO. Ok, the hungry part was a reach but the rest of those points were valid. You dont leave yourself vulnerable at the running back position with one guy coming back from a gimpy neck and the other a gimpy leg. Especially if you dont believe in the one healthy guy you have. Even if your owner is on drugs. The Browns drafted two backs with Gordon facing suspension!!! I think the belief in a rebound is legit (in Indy) and they saw enough last year to realize the issues could be corrected. This is a contending team we are talking about. Why take the risk? Why not sign Hill or Carey? Because they know TRich will be just fine.
Or the RB position is easily replaceable in today's NFL. And they have Bradshaw and Ballard coming back from injury.

 
LMAO. Ok, the hungry part was a reach but the rest of those points were valid. You dont leave yourself vulnerable at the running back position with one guy coming back from a gimpy neck and the other a gimpy leg. Especially if you dont believe in the one healthy guy you have. Even if your owner is on drugs. The Browns drafted two backs with Gordon facing suspension!!! I think the belief in a rebound is legit (in Indy) and they saw enough last year to realize the issues could be corrected. This is a contending team we are talking about. Why take the risk? Why not sign Hill or Carey? Because they know TRich will be just fine.
Or the RB position is easily replaceable in today's NFL. And they have Bradshaw and Ballard coming back from injury.
Bingo. The Colts are Luck's team, and the success of Brown, Ballard, and Bradshaw last year proved that just about any serviceable RB is enough to get the job done there. Of course I think they absolutely WANT Richardson to run away with the job and develop into the Pro Bowl bellcow they thought they traded for. He'll be given every opportunity to be that guy. But... they certainly wanted that last year too. The plan in September wasn't to be featuring Donald Brown exclusively come the playoffs; Richardson just played his way onto the bench as opposed to running away with the starting job. We'll see what he does with that same opportunity this year. I know where my chips are (not) going for a third year in a row.

 
There's a pretty respected poster on reddit's r/nfl who has had a lot of interesting things to say about Richardson in recent days. Worth a read.

On the topic of the Bama backs:

http://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/27vxra/eddie_lacy_and_trent_richardson_what_happened_to/

"It's not about the fact that they all came from Bama, it's the fact that all these Bama backs have (mostly) not been used properly. Bama's offenses is basically a carbon copy of the Texans/Seahawks/Redskins offense. It's all zone runs, lots of PA boots thrown in with deep shots to Amari Cooper (and Julio Jones back in the day). For a running back, reading zone blocking is way, way different than reading power. In a zone scheme the reads are often protracted and take more time since any one of three or four different holes could open up over the course of one run.

For instance, on a zone stretch the primary read might be a 5-tech defensive end. If his offensive tackle executes a successful "reach block" and seals the edge, then he races to the corner and tries to turn up field. If the defensive end beats the tackle to his outside shoulder, then his read suddenly becomes off the guard and center (depending on the alignment of the defensive front). Again, he's reading to see if the defenders are on the right or the left of their blockers. Because of the lateral motion of the run, defenders can't really "two gap" like they normally would against a north-south power run scheme. Either they contain play side, or pursue back side, not both. The back reads which linemen win, which linemen lose, and makes his decision based off of that. The read takes longer, but if you have a back that can do it they can be deadly. Often this vision is what makes or breaks a one cut zone runner rather than athletic ability (case in point Arian Foster and Alfred Morris).

Now, on a power scheme the back is often reading one designed hole that the play is intending to get the ball through from start to finish. It's a faster read, and more often than not the back has to follow a full back or pulling lineman into the hole and react based on whatever chaos gets created in the wash. Power runners are often more athletically gifts (or just flat out bigger humans) because they have to bounce, juke, and pound their way through a mass of bodies that usually ends up in different places than initially planned. A lot of pure zone runners either lack the instinct or lack the physical ability to succeed in power schemes because it's a completely different style of read. Similarly, a lot of pure power runners fail in zone schemes because they lack the vision to dissect multiple blocks at the same time and make a decision to cut up field at the appropriate time (think Darren McFadden failing miserably last season when the Raiders switched to a zone scheme).

So what does this have to do with Bama backs? Indy runs power, Green Bay runs zone. Trent Richardson's bruising reputation in college caused him to get labeled as a "down hill power runner" coming into the league, but in reality he was just a one cut zone runner that also happened to be really, REALLY hard to tackle. He's basically Marshawn Lynch 2.0, except Lynch also happens to be in a zone scheme where his talents and vision can flourish with his ability to fight for yardage. Cleveland ran power, found out quickly that he wasn't a power runner, and traded him to Indy, who is now also finding out that he has no idea what he's doing in a power scheme.

Contrast all this with Lacy, who is in a scheme that runs lots of stretches, lots of pin and pull zone plays to the edge, and lots of tosses in order to get into situations where he is most successful - in space. Lacy thrives when he has time to read his blocking, so the Packers cater to that by using a lot of run plays that take longer to develop than the Iso's and Dives that come with most power run games. Will the Pack run a power play every now and then to take advantage of Lacy's size? Absolutely, but their bread and butter is letting Lacy read zone blocking and use his size and power to break tackles in space. Lacy is a very similar back to Trent Richardson. Both of them are big, powerful runners. The only difference is that one team is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, while the other is not.
A few assorted Richardson posts:

I charted five full games from Richardson in 2013 with both Indy and Cleveland, and to my surprise out of 42 runs of 3 yards or less, 38 of them were the fault of the OL, not from Richardson making a bad read. That means that 90.4% of all the bad #### that happened wasn't his fault.
Let me put it to you this way. I never once saw Richardson run into a pile of bodies that was supposed to be clear. If his first read was closed, he made a cut every single time, and most of those cuts were correct. Whether or not there was another defender beating a blocker near that cut was not his fault. His decision making was great, he just never had anywhere to go.
Regarding Donald Brown...

Look at Brown's high YPC games and see how many carries he had. Now look at his games with 10 or more carries and his YPC. Even his 7.9 YPC game against KC on 10 carries is not really accurate. 51 of those yards came on one carry from shotgun against dime personnel. His other 9 carries average 3 YPC. He has just as little success as Richardson, but he was just the change of pace back so nobody noticed.
You're not getting my point. Three of those five games were less than 4 YPC. He only averaged that 4.38 because of that 7.9 YPC game, which was the result of ONE run of 51 yards against a dime package. ONE RUN gave him that 4.38. That is not indicative of overall effectiveness.
Buy that or not, I'm really eager to see what Trent can do with Allen back and a couple new faces on the OL. Same with Luck, who I think has been carrying the world on his back the last two seasons. His situation isn't parallel with Trent's exactly, but I think he's also a guy whose efficiency stats don't really tell the story of his quality (though obviously he still looks much better from that standpoint than T-Rich).

 
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"It's not about the fact that they all came from Bama, it's the fact that all these Bama backs have (mostly) not been used properly. Bama's offenses is basically a carbon copy of the Texans/Seahawks/Redskins offense. It's all zone runs, lots of PA boots thrown in with deep shots to Amari Cooper (and Julio Jones back in the day). For a running back, reading zone blocking is way, way different than reading power. In a zone scheme the reads are often protracted and take more time since any one of three or four different holes could open up over the course of one run."
Does Pep Hamilton plan on altering his running scheme to fit Richardson's aptitude behind zone blocking?

 
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There's a pretty respected poster on reddit's r/nfl who has had a lot of interesting things to say about Richardson in recent days. Worth a read.

On the topic of the Bama backs:

http://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/27vxra/eddie_lacy_and_trent_richardson_what_happened_to/

"It's not about the fact that they all came from Bama, it's the fact that all these Bama backs have (mostly) not been used properly. Bama's offenses is basically a carbon copy of the Texans/Seahawks/Redskins offense. It's all zone runs, lots of PA boots thrown in with deep shots to Amari Cooper (and Julio Jones back in the day). For a running back, reading zone blocking is way, way different than reading power. In a zone scheme the reads are often protracted and take more time since any one of three or four different holes could open up over the course of one run.

For instance, on a zone stretch the primary read might be a 5-tech defensive end. If his offensive tackle executes a successful "reach block" and seals the edge, then he races to the corner and tries to turn up field. If the defensive end beats the tackle to his outside shoulder, then his read suddenly becomes off the guard and center (depending on the alignment of the defensive front). Again, he's reading to see if the defenders are on the right or the left of their blockers. Because of the lateral motion of the run, defenders can't really "two gap" like they normally would against a north-south power run scheme. Either they contain play side, or pursue back side, not both. The back reads which linemen win, which linemen lose, and makes his decision based off of that. The read takes longer, but if you have a back that can do it they can be deadly. Often this vision is what makes or breaks a one cut zone runner rather than athletic ability (case in point Arian Foster and Alfred Morris).

Now, on a power scheme the back is often reading one designed hole that the play is intending to get the ball through from start to finish. It's a faster read, and more often than not the back has to follow a full back or pulling lineman into the hole and react based on whatever chaos gets created in the wash. Power runners are often more athletically gifts (or just flat out bigger humans) because they have to bounce, juke, and pound their way through a mass of bodies that usually ends up in different places than initially planned. A lot of pure zone runners either lack the instinct or lack the physical ability to succeed in power schemes because it's a completely different style of read. Similarly, a lot of pure power runners fail in zone schemes because they lack the vision to dissect multiple blocks at the same time and make a decision to cut up field at the appropriate time (think Darren McFadden failing miserably last season when the Raiders switched to a zone scheme).

So what does this have to do with Bama backs? Indy runs power, Green Bay runs zone. Trent Richardson's bruising reputation in college caused him to get labeled as a "down hill power runner" coming into the league, but in reality he was just a one cut zone runner that also happened to be really, REALLY hard to tackle. He's basically Marshawn Lynch 2.0, except Lynch also happens to be in a zone scheme where his talents and vision can flourish with his ability to fight for yardage. Cleveland ran power, found out quickly that he wasn't a power runner, and traded him to Indy, who is now also finding out that he has no idea what he's doing in a power scheme.

Contrast all this with Lacy, who is in a scheme that runs lots of stretches, lots of pin and pull zone plays to the edge, and lots of tosses in order to get into situations where he is most successful - in space. Lacy thrives when he has time to read his blocking, so the Packers cater to that by using a lot of run plays that take longer to develop than the Iso's and Dives that come with most power run games. Will the Pack run a power play every now and then to take advantage of Lacy's size? Absolutely, but their bread and butter is letting Lacy read zone blocking and use his size and power to break tackles in space. Lacy is a very similar back to Trent Richardson. Both of them are big, powerful runners. The only difference is that one team is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, while the other is not.
A few assorted Richardson posts:

I charted five full games from Richardson in 2013 with both Indy and Cleveland, and to my surprise out of 42 runs of 3 yards or less, 38 of them were the fault of the OL, not from Richardson making a bad read. That means that 90.4% of all the bad #### that happened wasn't his fault.
Let me put it to you this way. I never once saw Richardson run into a pile of bodies that was supposed to be clear. If his first read was closed, he made a cut every single time, and most of those cuts were correct. Whether or not there was another defender beating a blocker near that cut was not his fault. His decision making was great, he just never had anywhere to go.
Regarding Donald Brown...

Look at Brown's high YPC games and see how many carries he had. Now look at his games with 10 or more carries and his YPC. Even his 7.9 YPC game against KC on 10 carries is not really accurate. 51 of those yards came on one carry from shotgun against dime personnel. His other 9 carries average 3 YPC. He has just as little success as Richardson, but he was just the change of pace back so nobody noticed.
You're not getting my point. Three of those five games were less than 4 YPC. He only averaged that 4.38 because of that 7.9 YPC game, which was the result of ONE run of 51 yards against a dime package. ONE RUN gave him that 4.38. That is not indicative of overall effectiveness.
Buy that or not, I'm really eager to see what Trent can do with Allen back and a couple new faces on the OL. Same with Luck, who I think has been carrying the world on his back the last two seasons. His situation isn't parallel with Trent's exactly, but I think he's also a guy whose efficiency stats don't really tell the story of his quality (though obviously he still looks much better from that standpoint than T-Rich).
Nice post. Always have to look at things from a multitude of angles. I'm after the truth, not being the snappiest guy in the forums (or following that guy). TRich is going to let us know who he truly is. Then, I can make the most informed decision regarding his availability on my roster. Personally, I feel there were way too many factors surrounding his slow start (top 9 finish). Personally, I need to see more before I write off a top 5 draft pick. Especially after a promising start. Don't know the future so I guess I have to take a wait and see like everyone else. If he tanks, at least I know I did MY due dilligence. Won't lose any sleep over it one way or the other.

 
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There's a pretty respected poster on reddit's r/nfl who has had a lot of interesting things to say about Richardson in recent days. Worth a read.

On the topic of the Bama backs:

http://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/27vxra/eddie_lacy_and_trent_richardson_what_happened_to/

"It's not about the fact that they all came from Bama, it's the fact that all these Bama backs have (mostly) not been used properly. Bama's offenses is basically a carbon copy of the Texans/Seahawks/Redskins offense. It's all zone runs, lots of PA boots thrown in with deep shots to Amari Cooper (and Julio Jones back in the day). For a running back, reading zone blocking is way, way different than reading power. In a zone scheme the reads are often protracted and take more time since any one of three or four different holes could open up over the course of one run.

For instance, on a zone stretch the primary read might be a 5-tech defensive end. If his offensive tackle executes a successful "reach block" and seals the edge, then he races to the corner and tries to turn up field. If the defensive end beats the tackle to his outside shoulder, then his read suddenly becomes off the guard and center (depending on the alignment of the defensive front). Again, he's reading to see if the defenders are on the right or the left of their blockers. Because of the lateral motion of the run, defenders can't really "two gap" like they normally would against a north-south power run scheme. Either they contain play side, or pursue back side, not both. The back reads which linemen win, which linemen lose, and makes his decision based off of that. The read takes longer, but if you have a back that can do it they can be deadly. Often this vision is what makes or breaks a one cut zone runner rather than athletic ability (case in point Arian Foster and Alfred Morris).

Now, on a power scheme the back is often reading one designed hole that the play is intending to get the ball through from start to finish. It's a faster read, and more often than not the back has to follow a full back or pulling lineman into the hole and react based on whatever chaos gets created in the wash. Power runners are often more athletically gifts (or just flat out bigger humans) because they have to bounce, juke, and pound their way through a mass of bodies that usually ends up in different places than initially planned. A lot of pure zone runners either lack the instinct or lack the physical ability to succeed in power schemes because it's a completely different style of read. Similarly, a lot of pure power runners fail in zone schemes because they lack the vision to dissect multiple blocks at the same time and make a decision to cut up field at the appropriate time (think Darren McFadden failing miserably last season when the Raiders switched to a zone scheme).

So what does this have to do with Bama backs? Indy runs power, Green Bay runs zone. Trent Richardson's bruising reputation in college caused him to get labeled as a "down hill power runner" coming into the league, but in reality he was just a one cut zone runner that also happened to be really, REALLY hard to tackle. He's basically Marshawn Lynch 2.0, except Lynch also happens to be in a zone scheme where his talents and vision can flourish with his ability to fight for yardage. Cleveland ran power, found out quickly that he wasn't a power runner, and traded him to Indy, who is now also finding out that he has no idea what he's doing in a power scheme.

Contrast all this with Lacy, who is in a scheme that runs lots of stretches, lots of pin and pull zone plays to the edge, and lots of tosses in order to get into situations where he is most successful - in space. Lacy thrives when he has time to read his blocking, so the Packers cater to that by using a lot of run plays that take longer to develop than the Iso's and Dives that come with most power run games. Will the Pack run a power play every now and then to take advantage of Lacy's size? Absolutely, but their bread and butter is letting Lacy read zone blocking and use his size and power to break tackles in space. Lacy is a very similar back to Trent Richardson. Both of them are big, powerful runners. The only difference is that one team is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, while the other is not.
A few assorted Richardson posts:

I charted five full games from Richardson in 2013 with both Indy and Cleveland, and to my surprise out of 42 runs of 3 yards or less, 38 of them were the fault of the OL, not from Richardson making a bad read. That means that 90.4% of all the bad #### that happened wasn't his fault.
Let me put it to you this way. I never once saw Richardson run into a pile of bodies that was supposed to be clear. If his first read was closed, he made a cut every single time, and most of those cuts were correct. Whether or not there was another defender beating a blocker near that cut was not his fault. His decision making was great, he just never had anywhere to go.
Regarding Donald Brown...

Look at Brown's high YPC games and see how many carries he had. Now look at his games with 10 or more carries and his YPC. Even his 7.9 YPC game against KC on 10 carries is not really accurate. 51 of those yards came on one carry from shotgun against dime personnel. His other 9 carries average 3 YPC. He has just as little success as Richardson, but he was just the change of pace back so nobody noticed.
You're not getting my point. Three of those five games were less than 4 YPC. He only averaged that 4.38 because of that 7.9 YPC game, which was the result of ONE run of 51 yards against a dime package. ONE RUN gave him that 4.38. That is not indicative of overall effectiveness.
Buy that or not, I'm really eager to see what Trent can do with Allen back and a couple new faces on the OL. Same with Luck, who I think has been carrying the world on his back the last two seasons. His situation isn't parallel with Trent's exactly, but I think he's also a guy whose efficiency stats don't really tell the story of his quality (though obviously he still looks much better from that standpoint than T-Rich).
I think that there might be at least some validity to this, but based on what I've see from Richardson, his run vision is absolutely a major weakness, and this writer seems to be indicating he believes it's a strength.

Regardless, no scheme related issues can come close to excusing last year, particularly if Richardson is the elite talent that he was (and still is by some) touted to be. A true generational running talent isn't going to be as bad as Richardson was last year (and thus far overall in his NFL career) in any system -- I firmly believe that the Vikings could line up in a 1920s single wing and Adrian Peterson would manage > 2.9 YPC. Richardson can bounce back, certainly; he might not be as bad as he looked last year. But the flip side of the coin is that after almost 500 carries, there's probably a really good chance that he's exactly what he's looked like thus far, a limited < 3.5 YPC power specialist. Either way, at this point, we can close the book entirely on the "elite talent" nonsense IMO. The reasonable upside might be "good," it might be merely "adequate," but it sure as hell isn't elite. And given last year, the floor is scary low -- as in not getting a second NFL contract and never seeing meaningful carries again low.

 
"It's not about the fact that they all came from Bama, it's the fact that all these Bama backs have (mostly) not been used properly. Bama's offenses is basically a carbon copy of the Texans/Seahawks/Redskins offense. It's all zone runs, lots of PA boots thrown in with deep shots to Amari Cooper (and Julio Jones back in the day). For a running back, reading zone blocking is way, way different than reading power. In a zone scheme the reads are often protracted and take more time since any one of three or four different holes could open up over the course of one run."
Does Pep Hamilton plan on altering his running scheme to fit Richardson's aptitude behind zone blocking?
I don't know. The fact that they jettisoned Samson Satele (their starting center from last year) and spent their first draft pick this year on OT Jack Mewhort indicates that they realize their blocking was problematic though. Everything I've read about Satele's 2013 performance was very very grim. The fact that he's currently jobless six months into FA is a testament to that. The return of Dwayne Allen, one of the best blocking TEs in the game, will only help.

For me it's a situation that can only get better. Regardless of whether or not they keep trying to run power, you'd think Hamilton will get a better understanding of his team's strengths/weaknesses after reviewing the film and hopefully gameplan accordingly.

 
Regardless, no scheme related issues can come close to excusing last year, particularly if Richardson is the elite talent that he was (and still is by some) touted to be. A true generational running talent isn't going to be as bad as Richardson was last year (and thus far overall in his NFL career) in any system -- I firmly believe that the Vikings could line up in a 1920s single wing and Adrian Peterson would manage > 2.9 YPC. Richardson can bounce back, certainly; he might not be as bad as he looked last year. But the flip side of the coin is that after almost 500 carries, there's probably a really good chance that he's exactly what he's looked like thus far, a limited < 3.5 YPC power specialist. Either way, at this point, we can close the book entirely on the "elite talent" nonsense IMO. The reasonable upside might be "good," it might be merely "adequate," but it sure as hell isn't elite. And given last year, the floor is scary low -- as in not getting a second NFL contract and never seeing meaningful carries again low.
"Elite" is a relative term. Peterson is in my top 2 runners of the past decade along with LT. I would say it's a safe bet that Richardson won't reach that level, but he's already a better receiver than Peterson will ever be and in the NFL there's more to playing running back than just running. Alfred Morris is a good runner and he just fell to the 6.03 pick of my startup draft because he can't catch the ball or do anything in space.

I don't think Trent will ever crank out a season like Peterson's 2012, but I still think a Lynch/Rice level of rushing proficiency is within his potential. Those are players he reminds me of. Not Peterson. Whether or not that would qualify as elite to you, I don't really know. He's always been more of a power back than home run hitter, so if you were expecting CJ Spiller or Adrian Peterson YPC then you were probably setting yourself up for disappointment. He's a lot stronger than Peterson though and a lot tougher than CJ. More of a throwback to Earl Campbell/Ricky Williams than a guy who's going to blaze 60 yard runs with 4.3 speed.

 
Regardless, no scheme related issues can come close to excusing last year, particularly if Richardson is the elite talent that he was (and still is by some) touted to be. A true generational running talent isn't going to be as bad as Richardson was last year (and thus far overall in his NFL career) in any system -- I firmly believe that the Vikings could line up in a 1920s single wing and Adrian Peterson would manage > 2.9 YPC. Richardson can bounce back, certainly; he might not be as bad as he looked last year. But the flip side of the coin is that after almost 500 carries, there's probably a really good chance that he's exactly what he's looked like thus far, a limited < 3.5 YPC power specialist. Either way, at this point, we can close the book entirely on the "elite talent" nonsense IMO. The reasonable upside might be "good," it might be merely "adequate," but it sure as hell isn't elite. And given last year, the floor is scary low -- as in not getting a second NFL contract and never seeing meaningful carries again low.
"Elite" is a relative term. Peterson is in my top 2 runners of the past decade along with LT. I would say it's a safe bet that Richardson won't reach that level, but he's already a better receiver than Peterson will ever be and in the NFL there's more to playing running back than just running. Alfred Morris is a good runner and he just fell to the 6.03 pick of my startup draft because he can't catch the ball or do anything in space.

I don't think Trent will ever crank out a season like Peterson's 2012, but I still think a Lynch/Rice level of rushing proficiency is within his potential. Those are players he reminds me of. Not Peterson. Whether or not that would qualify as elite to you, I don't really know. He's always been more of a power back than home run hitter, so if you were expecting CJ Spiller or Adrian Peterson YPC then you were probably setting yourself up for disappointment. He's a lot stronger than Peterson though and a lot tougher than CJ. More of a throwback to Earl Campbell/Ricky Williams than a guy who's going to blaze 60 yard runs with 4.3 speed.
I personally don't think it's likely at all that he reaches a Pro Bowl level of play on the Rice / Lynch level, but regardless, both Rice's and Lynch's FF value has been hugely tied to system and surrounding talent. Take either one and put them on a pass-heavy team (and as Luck matures, that's what the Colts will likely be), with a QB who is a red zone running threat himself, and behind a crap to average line -- it doesn't add up to RB1 production in FF.

 
I don't really agree with that. A pass-heavy system can yield strong RB production, especially with a back who can catch. Receptions are an absolutely massive variable in PPR leagues and even if Trent is just Cedric Benson + receiving ability then he will still have a strong career.

I wouldn't really blame anyone for being down on Trent at this point. There's not much cause for optimism in his NFL rushing performances. I think if you like him, it has to be a leap of faith based on his physical talent, what he looked like in college, his high draft slot, and some of the circumstantial variables that help explain his struggles. I'm not going to spend a lot of time or energy trying to convince non-believers to value those factors more than the NFL performance. However, my opinion after considering lots of different factors is certainly that he still has a reasonable chance to turn it around and become a perennial top 10-12 RB in FF leagues.

It's going to be a case where the answer will seem really obvious 2-3 years from now with hindsight 20/20 when we've seen more of his career. If he still sucks, people will say, "Duh, he sucked all along. What did you expect?" If he turns it around and becomes a Marshawn Lynch/Thomas Jones, people will say it was obvious all along that he had talent because of his background. I'm expecting more of the latter, but wouldn't really hold it against someone for taking the "show me" stance.

 
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I don't really agree with that. A pass-heavy system can yield strong RB production, especially with a back who can catch. Receptions are an absolutely massive variable in PPR leagues and even if Trent is just Cedric Benson + receiving ability then he will still have a strong career.

I wouldn't really blame anyone for being down on Trent at this point. There's not much cause for optimism in his NFL rushing performances. I think if you like him, it has to be a leap of faith based on his physical talent, what he looked like in college, his high draft slot, and some of the circumstantial variables that help explain his struggles. I'm not going to spend a lot of time or energy trying to convince non-believers to value those factors more than the NFL performance. However, my opinion after considering lots of different factors is certainly that he still has a reasonable chance to turn it around and become a perennial top 10-12 RB in FF leagues.

It's going to be a case where the answer will seem really obvious 2-3 years from now with hindsight 20/20 when we've seen more of his career. If he still sucks, people will say, "Duh, he sucked all along. What did you expect?" If he turns it around and becomes a Marshawn Lynch/Thomas Jones, people will say it was obvious all along that he had talent because of his background. I'm expecting more of the latter, but wouldn't really hold it against someone for taking the "show me" stance.
:goodposting:

 
What does hate have to do with opinions on Richardson? Hate? Who hates him?

This is about owners not understanding what sunken costs are and having those feelings impact their opinions on Richardson.

Yeah, you burned a very high draft pick on him. But that event is over. That doesn't correlate to and shouldn't affect his value now. That high pick is gone and cannot be recovered. Richardson's performance to date is not commensurate with 1st round value, either in the NFL or in FF

Cleveland understood that 1st rounder was a sunken cost, had plenty of time to evaluate him, and decided when offered later 1st consideration that they would get what they could and parted ways. That's sound business judgment.

FF owners have a couple of options right now, and neither will recover that prime 1st rounder. Richardson is damaged goods. You can take a lower pick - probably a 2nd rounder from someone willing to gamble that he'll recover some value; or you can take the gamble yourself and hold him. There is a cost to holding - you could lose that 2nd rounder value if he comes out and continues to perform poorly. There's a very real risk to that with both Bradshaw and Ballard still on the roster. - both guys have proven they can outperform Richardson if he doesn't improve. And when we're talking about improvement, it's got to be massive just to make him average - a 40% increase in production at IND would put him at a very average 4.2 ypc. That's a substantial increase.

Understand your risk, his current value, and that what you spent on him in his rookie draft has nothing to do with his value right now. We've all seen high draft picks bust. He could just be the next in line. We've seen more busts than we've seen rebounds - by a pretty substantial multiplier. A few anecdotal instances does not change the valuation/risk in Richardson's case.

You want to hold and risk further erosion of his value, that's your prerogative. But don't pretend he is something that he hasn't remotely shown himself to be to date. That's letting emotion cloud your judgment. He's got a ton to prove just to show he can be a regular contributor in a NFL backfield, much less a bellcow. It's not hate when one looks at his performance to date and recognizes that.

 
It's going to be a case where the answer will seem really obvious 2-3 years from now with hindsight 20/20 when we've seen more of his career. If he still sucks, people will say, "Duh, he sucked all along. What did you expect?" If he turns it around and becomes a Marshawn Lynch/Thomas Jones, people will say it was obvious all along that he had talent because of his background. I'm expecting more of the latter, but wouldn't really hold it against someone for taking the "show me" stance.
he won't be in the league 3 years from now

 
It's going to be a case where the answer will seem really obvious 2-3 years from now with hindsight 20/20 when we've seen more of his career. If he still sucks, people will say, "Duh, he sucked all along. What did you expect?" If he turns it around and becomes a Marshawn Lynch/Thomas Jones, people will say it was obvious all along that he had talent because of his background. I'm expecting more of the latter, but wouldn't really hold it against someone for taking the "show me" stance.
he won't be in the league 3 years from now
Yeah, not sure why we need another 2 or 3 years to accurately assess this player. It's not like he's a Christine Michael or a David Wilson and lacks the body of work from which to draw a solid conclusion. Not only do we have over 500 career touches to look at, but also the "situation" excuses are pretty much put to rest because he's been poor in different situations and on two different teams. If indeed the "doesn't totally suck" door is still open, then it's only open a crack at this point -- and that door will slam shut completely if he fails to take complete control of the lead role (and do something with it) right out of the gate this year. A few weeks into 2014, if he's losing significant touches to and being outplayed by Bradshaw / Ballard and still plodding along at under 4 yards per, it'll be 100% over as far as his FF value is concerned. Those of us that don't have significant resources tied up in the guy have been there since halfway through last year. Obviously it sucks when the player in whom you invested top-5 startup value is a total bust, but continuing to double down and buy him at way above market is just really bad process.

 
It's going to be a case where the answer will seem really obvious 2-3 years from now with hindsight 20/20 when we've seen more of his career. If he still sucks, people will say, "Duh, he sucked all along. What did you expect?" If he turns it around and becomes a Marshawn Lynch/Thomas Jones, people will say it was obvious all along that he had talent because of his background. I'm expecting more of the latter, but wouldn't really hold it against someone for taking the "show me" stance.
he won't be in the league 3 years from now
i will take the over....how much?

 
What does hate have to do with opinions on Richardson? Hate? Who hates him?

This is about owners not understanding what sunken costs are and having those feelings impact their opinions on Richardson.

Yeah, you burned a very high draft pick on him. But that event is over. That doesn't correlate to and shouldn't affect his value now. That high pick is gone and cannot be recovered. Richardson's performance to date is not commensurate with 1st round value, either in the NFL or in FF

Cleveland understood that 1st rounder was a sunken cost, had plenty of time to evaluate him, and decided when offered later 1st consideration that they would get what they could and parted ways. That's sound business judgment.

FF owners have a couple of options right now, and neither will recover that prime 1st rounder. Richardson is damaged goods. You can take a lower pick - probably a 2nd rounder from someone willing to gamble that he'll recover some value; or you can take the gamble yourself and hold him. There is a cost to holding - you could lose that 2nd rounder value if he comes out and continues to perform poorly. There's a very real risk to that with both Bradshaw and Ballard still on the roster. - both guys have proven they can outperform Richardson if he doesn't improve. And when we're talking about improvement, it's got to be massive just to make him average - a 40% increase in production at IND would put him at a very average 4.2 ypc. That's a substantial increase.

Understand your risk, his current value, and that what you spent on him in his rookie draft has nothing to do with his value right now. We've all seen high draft picks bust. He could just be the next in line. We've seen more busts than we've seen rebounds - by a pretty substantial multiplier. A few anecdotal instances does not change the valuation/risk in Richardson's case.

You want to hold and risk further erosion of his value, that's your prerogative. But don't pretend he is something that he hasn't remotely shown himself to be to date. That's letting emotion cloud your judgment. He's got a ton to prove just to show he can be a regular contributor in a NFL backfield, much less a bellcow. It's not hate when one looks at his performance to date and recognizes that.
No one is dumping Richardson for a 2nd rounder.....I would pay that all day for him. In fact I would pay a 1st rounder for him and have offered that several times with players added and that owner has yet to accept any of the offers.

I think if you dont own him you will value him low....because you want to steal him or just minimize your risk if he does bust. I can understand why someone would not want to buy Trent....he looked bad last year....I am someone who see's his talent and work ethic and to me that will equal production.

I am a buyer at fair value which I see as future 1st rounder plus

 
What does hate have to do with opinions on Richardson? Hate? Who hates him?

This is about owners not understanding what sunken costs are and having those feelings impact their opinions on Richardson.

Yeah, you burned a very high draft pick on him. But that event is over. That doesn't correlate to and shouldn't affect his value now. That high pick is gone and cannot be recovered. Richardson's performance to date is not commensurate with 1st round value, either in the NFL or in FF

Cleveland understood that 1st rounder was a sunken cost, had plenty of time to evaluate him, and decided when offered later 1st consideration that they would get what they could and parted ways. That's sound business judgment.

FF owners have a couple of options right now, and neither will recover that prime 1st rounder. Richardson is damaged goods. You can take a lower pick - probably a 2nd rounder from someone willing to gamble that he'll recover some value; or you can take the gamble yourself and hold him. There is a cost to holding - you could lose that 2nd rounder value if he comes out and continues to perform poorly. There's a very real risk to that with both Bradshaw and Ballard still on the roster. - both guys have proven they can outperform Richardson if he doesn't improve. And when we're talking about improvement, it's got to be massive just to make him average - a 40% increase in production at IND would put him at a very average 4.2 ypc. That's a substantial increase.

Understand your risk, his current value, and that what you spent on him in his rookie draft has nothing to do with his value right now. We've all seen high draft picks bust. He could just be the next in line. We've seen more busts than we've seen rebounds - by a pretty substantial multiplier. A few anecdotal instances does not change the valuation/risk in Richardson's case.

You want to hold and risk further erosion of his value, that's your prerogative. But don't pretend he is something that he hasn't remotely shown himself to be to date. That's letting emotion cloud your judgment. He's got a ton to prove just to show he can be a regular contributor in a NFL backfield, much less a bellcow. It's not hate when one looks at his performance to date and recognizes that.
No one is dumping Richardson for a 2nd rounder.....I would pay that all day for him. In fact I would pay a 1st rounder for him and have offered that several times with players added and that owner has yet to accept any of the offers.I think if you dont own him you will value him low....because you want to steal him or just minimize your risk if he does bust. I can understand why someone would not want to buy Trent....he looked bad last year....I am someone who see's his talent and work ethic and to me that will equal production.

I am a buyer at fair value which I see as future 1st rounder plus
My point exactly. A concerned Richardson owner ought to consider your offer seriously - just like CLE did with IND. CLE chose to cut their losses based upon their evaluation of his performance.

 
What does hate have to do with opinions on Richardson? Hate? Who hates him?

This is about owners not understanding what sunken costs are and having those feelings impact their opinions on Richardson.

Yeah, you burned a very high draft pick on him. But that event is over. That doesn't correlate to and shouldn't affect his value now. That high pick is gone and cannot be recovered. Richardson's performance to date is not commensurate with 1st round value, either in the NFL or in FF

Cleveland understood that 1st rounder was a sunken cost, had plenty of time to evaluate him, and decided when offered later 1st consideration that they would get what they could and parted ways. That's sound business judgment.

FF owners have a couple of options right now, and neither will recover that prime 1st rounder. Richardson is damaged goods. You can take a lower pick - probably a 2nd rounder from someone willing to gamble that he'll recover some value; or you can take the gamble yourself and hold him. There is a cost to holding - you could lose that 2nd rounder value if he comes out and continues to perform poorly. There's a very real risk to that with both Bradshaw and Ballard still on the roster. - both guys have proven they can outperform Richardson if he doesn't improve. And when we're talking about improvement, it's got to be massive just to make him average - a 40% increase in production at IND would put him at a very average 4.2 ypc. That's a substantial increase.

Understand your risk, his current value, and that what you spent on him in his rookie draft has nothing to do with his value right now. We've all seen high draft picks bust. He could just be the next in line. We've seen more busts than we've seen rebounds - by a pretty substantial multiplier. A few anecdotal instances does not change the valuation/risk in Richardson's case.

You want to hold and risk further erosion of his value, that's your prerogative. But don't pretend he is something that he hasn't remotely shown himself to be to date. That's letting emotion cloud your judgment. He's got a ton to prove just to show he can be a regular contributor in a NFL backfield, much less a bellcow. It's not hate when one looks at his performance to date and recognizes that.
No one is dumping Richardson for a 2nd rounder.....I would pay that all day for him. In fact I would pay a 1st rounder for him and have offered that several times with players added and that owner has yet to accept any of the offers.

I think if you dont own him you will value him low....because you want to steal him or just minimize your risk if he does bust. I can understand why someone would not want to buy Trent....he looked bad last year....I am someone who see's his talent and work ethic and to me that will equal production.

I am a buyer at fair value which I see as future 1st rounder plus
A month ago, I was offered what I would expect to be a mid or likely late first rd pick next year for Trent, plus a little something extra... and I passed. I don't think it was an unreasonable offer, but there is a premium on RBs in my league and Trent's potential upside, even if only as a compiler, is worth more then pick 1.10 or whatever, to me.

ETA: I definitely paused and thoroughly thought it through.

 
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I sold him for the 1.8 earlier in the offseason. However, I am seriously considering buying back if the price is right. I do not want to pay 1.8 back as I would rather take a chance on Freeman or Mason if they are there. I would buy back if I could get away with a early 2nd, but doubt I would pay a first rounder.

 

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