Tom Brady should be fined and suspended (1 Viewer)

[pizzatyme]

Actually, I thought his post was very level headed.

 

[Whizzinator]

Actually, I thought his post was very level headed.

As you said of yourself: "I don't like the Patriots. I think Brady is a lucky primadona SOB who gets more than his share of calls"

More neutral people probably recognize the problem with saying 'responsibility' exists for one team, but not for the referees.

 

[cheese]

how could it be pass interference if the ball was picked off 5 yards before reaching the reciever? Just like if a ball is tipped at the LOS, refs got it right and Brady was just being a baby.

Because asking the officials to guess whether he could come back those 5 yards and catch it makes no sense. It's equally stupid that a tipped ball is also a license to commit interference.

Make horrible rules where everything is one huge gray area and this is what you get. Several days of discussion about technicalities of rules instead of talking about either Cam's breakout or Brady's finish.

If you think the rules around pass interference could ever be objective, you haven't written rules.And like most disputes about calls, the Patriots have to take responsibility for the fact that they didn't execute a play that should have gotten them in the end zone. They threw a bad pass into tight double coverage; even if it wasn't intercepted, even if there wasn't any contact, there was no way the pass could have been completed. Blaming the refs for not bailing them out is BS.

Ok, I'll give it a shot. Keep the rules for what is pass interference exactly as they are today. Eliminate all the exceptions.

Great. You failed. Now what?

[One obvious scenario, that led to the "uncatchable" exception. QB is throwing the ball away, 20 feet over the heads of guys in the end zone. The DB's finger brushes the back of the receiver's jersey. Do they deserve the ball at the 1 yard line?]

Depends, is a DB's finger brushing the back of a WR's jersey normally interference?

 

[Sabertooth]

This is what the shark pool has come to. Guys who used to give great analysis are just trolls now.

 

[CalBear]

Serious question: have you actually even watched the replay even once? You read like a bitter dude who hates the Patriots and simply doesn't care what happened on the field so long as it negatively impacts them.

I watched the game at the time, I've watched the replay multiple times, and I don't care at all about the Patriots or the Panthers.I thought it was a good no-call. I've reffed basketball, and I'm not going to call a block when a player creates contact by dribbling into a defensive double-team and heaving up a weak shot with 3 seconds left in the game. If you want the call, get to the spot first.

 

[CalBear]

how could it be pass interference if the ball was picked off 5 yards before reaching the reciever? Just like if a ball is tipped at the LOS, refs got it right and Brady was just being a baby.

Because asking the officials to guess whether he could come back those 5 yards and catch it makes no sense. It's equally stupid that a tipped ball is also a license to commit interference.

Make horrible rules where everything is one huge gray area and this is what you get. Several days of discussion about technicalities of rules instead of talking about either Cam's breakout or Brady's finish.

If you think the rules around pass interference could ever be objective, you haven't written rules.And like most disputes about calls, the Patriots have to take responsibility for the fact that they didn't execute a play that should have gotten them in the end zone. They threw a bad pass into tight double coverage; even if it wasn't intercepted, even if there wasn't any contact, there was no way the pass could have been completed. Blaming the refs for not bailing them out is BS.

Ok, I'll give it a shot. Keep the rules for what is pass interference exactly as they are today. Eliminate all the exceptions.

Great. You failed. Now what?

[One obvious scenario, that led to the "uncatchable" exception. QB is throwing the ball away, 20 feet over the heads of guys in the end zone. The DB's finger brushes the back of the receiver's jersey. Do they deserve the ball at the 1 yard line?]

Depends, is a DB's finger brushing the back of a WR's jersey normally interference?

I don't know, what does your rule say?

Might there be some subjectivity to what constitutes contact?

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Serious question: have you actually even watched the replay even once? You read like a bitter dude who hates the Patriots and simply doesn't care what happened on the field so long as it negatively impacts them.

I watched the game at the time, I've watched the replay multiple times, and I don't care at all about the Patriots or the Panthers.I thought it was a good no-call. I've reffed basketball, and I'm not going to call a block when a player creates contact by dribbling into a defensive double-team and heaving up a weak shot with 3 seconds left in the game. If you want the call, get to the spot first.

you sound like a great ref.

so, all they need to do to defend a great shooter in your games is wrap him up before the ball gets there

 

[CalBear]

Serious question: have you actually even watched the replay even once? You read like a bitter dude who hates the Patriots and simply doesn't care what happened on the field so long as it negatively impacts them.

I watched the game at the time, I've watched the replay multiple times, and I don't care at all about the Patriots or the Panthers.I thought it was a good no-call. I've reffed basketball, and I'm not going to call a block when a player creates contact by dribbling into a defensive double-team and heaving up a weak shot with 3 seconds left in the game. If you want the call, get to the spot first.

you sound like a great ref.

so, all they need to do to defend a great shooter in your games is wrap him up before the ball gets there

How did you get that from what I posted? If the shooter creates the contact by running into a double team, I am not going to call a defensive foul. If the shooter gets to the spot first and is mugged, I will call it. The game should be decided by the players, not by the refs, and if the offense plays to get a call rather than to make a shot, they don't get the call.

 

[Golden Gopher]

This isn't the first time I've seen Brady go out of his way to yell profanities at the refs, when calls don't go his way. Did he have the right to be pissed? Sure. But, like others mentioned, the classy thing to do (and what Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, etc. would have done, most likely) would have been to shake Cam's hand at midfield, and move on.

That said, there is absolutely no precedent for a suspension. If Brady had placed his hand on the official, it becomes a whole different story. As it was, it's a non-story, other than just another example of how Brady can appear to be classless when things don't go his way. He's as sore of a loser as you'll see, in terms of an NFL QB (does he ever shake hands after a loss, or does he just run to the tunnel?), and acts like a spoiled child when he doesn't get his way. But, again, there's no way he would (or should) get suspended.

As for a fine, I actually wouldn't mind seeing fines for stuff like this. I don't think there has been much of a precedent (Brady and the refs crossed paths, which is different than Shanahan hunting a ref down after a game, and much different than making physical contact), but now is as good of a time as any, to start a precedent. If players are going to act like children, they should be prepared to face some sort of repurcussion. In the NBA, they would be tossed. Same with MLB. Yet, we see NFL players berate officials fairly regularly, and it rarely (if ever) generates a penalty flag (unless they make contact with said official). In this case (when the game is over), I think a fine is warranted, regardless of how bad the call was.

 

[cheese]

how could it be pass interference if the ball was picked off 5 yards before reaching the reciever? Just like if a ball is tipped at the LOS, refs got it right and Brady was just being a baby.

Because asking the officials to guess whether he could come back those 5 yards and catch it makes no sense. It's equally stupid that a tipped ball is also a license to commit interference.

Make horrible rules where everything is one huge gray area and this is what you get. Several days of discussion about technicalities of rules instead of talking about either Cam's breakout or Brady's finish.

If you think the rules around pass interference could ever be objective, you haven't written rules.And like most disputes about calls, the Patriots have to take responsibility for the fact that they didn't execute a play that should have gotten them in the end zone. They threw a bad pass into tight double coverage; even if it wasn't intercepted, even if there wasn't any contact, there was no way the pass could have been completed. Blaming the refs for not bailing them out is BS.

Ok, I'll give it a shot. Keep the rules for what is pass interference exactly as they are today. Eliminate all the exceptions.

Great. You failed. Now what?

[One obvious scenario, that led to the "uncatchable" exception. QB is throwing the ball away, 20 feet over the heads of guys in the end zone. The DB's finger brushes the back of the receiver's jersey. Do they deserve the ball at the 1 yard line?]

Depends, is a DB's finger brushing the back of a WR's jersey normally interference?

I don't know, what does your rule say?

Might there be some subjectivity to what constitutes contact?

I want the exact same contact that is PI today to be PI. I never once said that shouldn't be subjective.

 

[CalBear]

how could it be pass interference if the ball was picked off 5 yards before reaching the reciever? Just like if a ball is tipped at the LOS, refs got it right and Brady was just being a baby.

Because asking the officials to guess whether he could come back those 5 yards and catch it makes no sense. It's equally stupid that a tipped ball is also a license to commit interference.

Make horrible rules where everything is one huge gray area and this is what you get. Several days of discussion about technicalities of rules instead of talking about either Cam's breakout or Brady's finish.

If you think the rules around pass interference could ever be objective, you haven't written rules.And like most disputes about calls, the Patriots have to take responsibility for the fact that they didn't execute a play that should have gotten them in the end zone. They threw a bad pass into tight double coverage; even if it wasn't intercepted, even if there wasn't any contact, there was no way the pass could have been completed. Blaming the refs for not bailing them out is BS.

Ok, I'll give it a shot. Keep the rules for what is pass interference exactly as they are today. Eliminate all the exceptions.

Great. You failed. Now what?

[One obvious scenario, that led to the "uncatchable" exception. QB is throwing the ball away, 20 feet over the heads of guys in the end zone. The DB's finger brushes the back of the receiver's jersey. Do they deserve the ball at the 1 yard line?]

Depends, is a DB's finger brushing the back of a WR's jersey normally interference?

I don't know, what does your rule say?

Might there be some subjectivity to what constitutes contact?

I want the exact same contact that is PI today to be PI. I never once said that shouldn't be subjective.

You said the problem is "horrible rules where everything is one big gray area." What's the non-gray area about what constitutes contact? How do you write that rule?

Once you've defined the rule, now imagine a situation where the QB is intentionally throwing the ball away, 20 feet over the heads of the players. The defender contacts the offensive player in a way that constitutes pass interference under your rule. Ball on the 1?

 

[Wrigley]

 

[Cliff Clavin]

This is what the shark pool has come to. Guys who used to give great analysis are just trolls now.

Lets not get carried away here.

 

[doowain]

And the refs have been very good to Brady over the years, many times bailing him out with roughing the passer calls, phantom PI calls that were like the last play of the game tonight only in reverse. I will be eager to hear what if anything happens to Uncle Tom tomorrow but I doubt much of anything comes of it.

Wait, what?

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

And the refs have been very good to Brady over the years, many times bailing him out with roughing the passer calls, phantom PI calls that were like the last play of the game tonight only in reverse. I will be eager to hear what if anything happens to Uncle Tom tomorrow but I doubt much of anything comes of it.

Wait, what?

I thinking he's calling brady a cornball brother

 

[doowain]

And the refs have been very good to Brady over the years, many times bailing him out with roughing the passer calls, phantom PI calls that were like the last play of the game tonight only in reverse. I will be eager to hear what if anything happens to Uncle Tom tomorrow but I doubt much of anything comes of it.

Wait, what?

I thinking he's calling brady a cornball brother

Interesting.

I've ignored much of what MOP has said since his Walgreen's thread, so maybe I am off here, but why is it that racial under(over)tones seem to be a common theme for him?

 

[Neofight]

And the refs have been very good to Brady over the years, many times bailing him out with roughing the passer calls, phantom PI calls that were like the last play of the game tonight only in reverse. I will be eager to hear what if anything happens to Uncle Tom tomorrow but I doubt much of anything comes of it.

Wait, what?

I thinking he's calling brady a cornball brother

Interesting.

I've ignored much of what MOP has said since his Walgreen's thread, so maybe I am off here, but why is it that racial under(over)tones seem to be a common theme for him?

He's secretly part of the Dolphins leadership council.

 

[Sabertooth]

This is what the shark pool has come to. Guys who used to give great analysis are just trolls now.

Lets not get carried away here.

I always like his writeups But this thread is just tripe.

 

[identikit]

There's your double standard, MOP.

Do you clean the classrooms or the cafeteria first?

Your kid says hi.

 

[everydayj]

This is what the shark pool has come to. Guys who used to give great analysis are just trolls now.

Lets not get carried away here.

I always like his writeups But this thread is just tripe.

 

[Steelers4Life]

how could it be pass interference if the ball was picked off 5 yards before reaching the reciever? Just like if a ball is tipped at the LOS, refs got it right and Brady was just being a baby.

funny how gronk and the db are right next to each other at one point, and while it was apparently catchable by the db gronk just couldn't seem to get to that same spot for some reason.......

Their momentums were moving in opposite directions.

The difference is that the DB was moving forward, Gronk was running his route towards the end line, and Keuchley had position on the inside. Anyone who watches that replay and sees Gronk getting pushed backwards isn't paying attention. Keuchley had position and doesn't HAVE to move to let him come back for the ball, and Gronk's momentum wouldn't have let him anyways.

Gronk would've had to go THROUGH Keuchley and AROUND the DB to get to the ball. It's not as simple as Gronk taking two steps forward.

And it's also true that if Brady hadn't been pressured and was able to loft the ball to the back of the endzone like he wanted to, he'd have gotten the call.

actually, the difference is that gronk was being tackled before the ball ever got there, while the db wasn't.

that said, this entire conversation is pointless.

Actually, you're wrong. Gronk's route was to run at the goal post. That's where his route was going, and that's where his momentum was taking him. Keuchley definitely made contact with him, but he didn't restrict him from coming back and didn't force him anywhere. Gronk never even planted his foot in an ATTEMPT to come back, and he didn't even immediately motion for a flag. He only did so AFTER seeing the flag on the ground... it's clear on the replay. He stands there for a second, starts walking, looks down and sees the flag, and THEN starts pointing. He wasn't acting like a guy who was pissed off that he was interfered with.

It's all moot if Brady throws the ball where he was supposed to, because then Gronk would've made an actual attempt to catch it, been interfered with, and the Pats would've had another chance.

I love how people talk about this like it was a guarantee they'd score on one play from the one, anyways.

Perhaps that's because Kuechly already had a good push going as Gronkowski went to plant?

And by then, he'd have had to go through both the DB AND Keuchley, who had inside position, to catch an underthrown ball from Brady.

I get it, there was PI. But this whining and moaning that the ball had any chance of being caught by Gronk is ridiculous. It's not like Gronk had to simply stop and get there. He had 2 people between him and where the ball landed.

I couldn't care less about either team because the Steelers aren't going anywhere this year, but Brady's underthrow is the reason the call wasn't made.

 

[General Tso]

I disagree with him more often than not, but I find MOP to be one of the most entertaining and refreshing posters in here. He's passionately opinionated, but not a tool about it. Just like my chicken, a little sizzle is good for chat rooms.

 

[maxwjom0]

The penalty should have been called. It was an underthrown ball but it's not outside the realm of possibility Gronk could have made a play on it.

As far as Brady goes I'm not a fan of him or the Patriots. But to me his rant was justified.

 

[SportsGuru311]

I agree. it was a sickening display by him. any other player and they lose a ton of money

 

[cheese]

how could it be pass interference if the ball was picked off 5 yards before reaching the reciever? Just like if a ball is tipped at the LOS, refs got it right and Brady was just being a baby.

Because asking the officials to guess whether he could come back those 5 yards and catch it makes no sense. It's equally stupid that a tipped ball is also a license to commit interference.

Make horrible rules where everything is one huge gray area and this is what you get. Several days of discussion about technicalities of rules instead of talking about either Cam's breakout or Brady's finish.

If you think the rules around pass interference could ever be objective, you haven't written rules.And like most disputes about calls, the Patriots have to take responsibility for the fact that they didn't execute a play that should have gotten them in the end zone. They threw a bad pass into tight double coverage; even if it wasn't intercepted, even if there wasn't any contact, there was no way the pass could have been completed. Blaming the refs for not bailing them out is BS.

Ok, I'll give it a shot. Keep the rules for what is pass interference exactly as they are today. Eliminate all the exceptions.

Great. You failed. Now what?

[One obvious scenario, that led to the "uncatchable" exception. QB is throwing the ball away, 20 feet over the heads of guys in the end zone. The DB's finger brushes the back of the receiver's jersey. Do they deserve the ball at the 1 yard line?]

Depends, is a DB's finger brushing the back of a WR's jersey normally interference?

I don't know, what does your rule say?

Might there be some subjectivity to what constitutes contact?

I want the exact same contact that is PI today to be PI. I never once said that shouldn't be subjective.

You said the problem is "horrible rules where everything is one big gray area." What's the non-gray area about what constitutes contact? How do you write that rule?

Once you've defined the rule, now imagine a situation where the QB is intentionally throwing the ball away, 20 feet over the heads of the players. The defender contacts the offensive player in a way that constitutes pass interference under your rule. Ball on the 1?

Yes, ball on the 1. This isn't that hard. Play defense legally or get a flag thrown.

 

[Gargoylez]

Love or hate Brady, the refs blew the call... Worse yet, they are sweeping it under the rugs.

I do not expect perfection from refs, but the level of incompetence this year is stifling. I have watched entire games botched, blatent calls missed/ignored and phantom calls given. This is at the replacement ref level.

This is yet another example of incompetence. The no call PI call last super bowl set this season off. It has been a horrid year for the stripes.

I can only hope they just get better on their own, because the NFL will stick their head in the sand and do nothing. Fans wont stop watching and as long as they are getting money, the refs wont change.

 

[Plaid Boxer]

I agree. it was a sickening display by him. any other player and they lose a ton of money

Peyton Manning would NEVER do this to a ref:

http://thebiglead.com/2012/10/15/peyton-manning-to-referee-thats-the-most-bull####-call-ive-ever-seen/

 

[pizzatyme]

I agree. it was a sickening display by him. any other player and they lose a ton of money

Peyton Manning would NEVER do this to a ref:

http://thebiglead.com/2012/10/15/peyton-manning-to-referee-thats-the-most-bull####-call-ive-ever-seen/

Would PM walk off the field not congratulating the opposing QB after the game while whining about a non-call and dropping an F bomb? If not, then it's apples and bananas.

 

[CalBear]

how could it be pass interference if the ball was picked off 5 yards before reaching the reciever? Just like if a ball is tipped at the LOS, refs got it right and Brady was just being a baby.

Because asking the officials to guess whether he could come back those 5 yards and catch it makes no sense. It's equally stupid that a tipped ball is also a license to commit interference.

Make horrible rules where everything is one huge gray area and this is what you get. Several days of discussion about technicalities of rules instead of talking about either Cam's breakout or Brady's finish.

If you think the rules around pass interference could ever be objective, you haven't written rules.And like most disputes about calls, the Patriots have to take responsibility for the fact that they didn't execute a play that should have gotten them in the end zone. They threw a bad pass into tight double coverage; even if it wasn't intercepted, even if there wasn't any contact, there was no way the pass could have been completed. Blaming the refs for not bailing them out is BS.

Ok, I'll give it a shot. Keep the rules for what is pass interference exactly as they are today. Eliminate all the exceptions.

Great. You failed. Now what?

[One obvious scenario, that led to the "uncatchable" exception. QB is throwing the ball away, 20 feet over the heads of guys in the end zone. The DB's finger brushes the back of the receiver's jersey. Do they deserve the ball at the 1 yard line?]

Depends, is a DB's finger brushing the back of a WR's jersey normally interference?

I don't know, what does your rule say?

Might there be some subjectivity to what constitutes contact?

I want the exact same contact that is PI today to be PI. I never once said that shouldn't be subjective.

You said the problem is "horrible rules where everything is one big gray area." What's the non-gray area about what constitutes contact? How do you write that rule?

Once you've defined the rule, now imagine a situation where the QB is intentionally throwing the ball away, 20 feet over the heads of the players. The defender contacts the offensive player in a way that constitutes pass interference under your rule. Ball on the 1?

Yes, ball on the 1. This isn't that hard. Play defense legally or get a flag thrown.

Ok, now what if both players are pushing on each other? Ball 20 feet over their heads.

 

[Plaid Boxer]

I agree. it was a sickening display by him. any other player and they lose a ton of money

Peyton Manning would NEVER do this to a ref:

http://thebiglead.com/2012/10/15/peyton-manning-to-referee-thats-the-most-bull####-call-ive-ever-seen/

Would PM walk off the field not congratulating the opposing QB after the game while whining about a non-call and dropping an F bomb? If not, then it's apples and bananas.

Remember when Peyton left the field with his helmet on when he lost the Super Bowl without congratulating Brees?

Painting the picture that there are these perfect gentleman like Peyton Manning who do things "the right way" is a tad ridiculous. All of these guys are uber competitors who sometimes display emotions they would like to take back.

 

[pizzatyme]

I agree. it was a sickening display by him. any other player and they lose a ton of money

Peyton Manning would NEVER do this to a ref:

http://thebiglead.com/2012/10/15/peyton-manning-to-referee-thats-the-most-bull####-call-ive-ever-seen/

Would PM walk off the field not congratulating the opposing QB after the game while whining about a non-call and dropping an F bomb? If not, then it's apples and bananas.

Remember when Peyton left the field with his helmet on when he lost the Super Bowl without congratulating Brees?

Painting the picture that there are these perfect gentleman like Peyton Manning who do things "the right way" is a tad ridiculous. All of these guys are uber competitors who sometimes display emotions they would like to take back.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=brees+manning+superbowl&FORM=HDRSC2#view=detail&id=D559C0A5D0E8AE13343413C8A466B5FA758C42FF&selectedIndex=2

 

[Deamon]

I agree. it was a sickening display by him. any other player and they lose a ton of money

Peyton Manning would NEVER do this to a ref:

http://thebiglead.com/2012/10/15/peyton-manning-to-referee-thats-the-most-bull####-call-ive-ever-seen/

Would PM walk off the field not congratulating the opposing QB after the game while whining about a non-call and dropping an F bomb? If not, then it's apples and bananas.

Yes, he did it against New Orleans. You're getting a little specific there.

Would PM Cuss out a ref while double knotting his left shoe, and after eating pasta for dinner the night before? If not, it's apples and bananas.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I agree. it was a sickening display by him. any other player and they lose a ton of money

Peyton Manning would NEVER do this to a ref:

http://thebiglead.com/2012/10/15/peyton-manning-to-referee-thats-the-most-bull####-call-ive-ever-seen/

Would PM walk off the field not congratulating the opposing QB after the game while whining about a non-call and dropping an F bomb? If not, then it's apples and bananas.

Remember when Peyton left the field with his helmet on when he lost the Super Bowl without congratulating Brees?

Painting the picture that there are these perfect gentleman like Peyton Manning who do things "the right way" is a tad ridiculous. All of these guys are uber competitors who sometimes display emotions they would like to take back.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=brees+manning+superbowl&FORM=HDRSC2#view=detail&id=D559C0A5D0E8AE13343413C8A466B5FA758C42FF&selectedIndex=2

Shopped

 

[Warrior]

This is what the shark pool has come to. Guys who used to give great analysis are just trolls now.

 

[Slapdash]

Class is not something Brady usually displays, but fined for this? Suspended? Let's be serious.

Classy is about one of the last words I'd use to describe Brady.

 

[Keith Lewis]

Why does Brady get 10 times more grief than Dez?

 

[cheese]

Because asking the officials to guess whether he could come back those 5 yards and catch it makes no sense. It's equally stupid that a tipped ball is also a license to commit interference.

Make horrible rules where everything is one huge gray area and this is what you get. Several days of discussion about technicalities of rules instead of talking about either Cam's breakout or Brady's finish.

If you think the rules around pass interference could ever be objective, you haven't written rules.And like most disputes about calls, the Patriots have to take responsibility for the fact that they didn't execute a play that should have gotten them in the end zone. They threw a bad pass into tight double coverage; even if it wasn't intercepted, even if there wasn't any contact, there was no way the pass could have been completed. Blaming the refs for not bailing them out is BS.

Ok, I'll give it a shot. Keep the rules for what is pass interference exactly as they are today. Eliminate all the exceptions.

Great. You failed. Now what?

[One obvious scenario, that led to the "uncatchable" exception. QB is throwing the ball away, 20 feet over the heads of guys in the end zone. The DB's finger brushes the back of the receiver's jersey. Do they deserve the ball at the 1 yard line?]

Depends, is a DB's finger brushing the back of a WR's jersey normally interference?

I don't know, what does your rule say?

Might there be some subjectivity to what constitutes contact?

I want the exact same contact that is PI today to be PI. I never once said that shouldn't be subjective.

You said the problem is "horrible rules where everything is one big gray area." What's the non-gray area about what constitutes contact? How do you write that rule?

Once you've defined the rule, now imagine a situation where the QB is intentionally throwing the ball away, 20 feet over the heads of the players. The defender contacts the offensive player in a way that constitutes pass interference under your rule. Ball on the 1?

Yes, ball on the 1. This isn't that hard. Play defense legally or get a flag thrown.

Ok, now what if both players are pushing on each other? Ball 20 feet over their heads.

My answer for all of them is the same. Where the ball is doesn't matter. What do they call now when 2 people are pushing each other? Call that. In this case I would say they would either call nothing if it's minor contact or call interference on both if it's major contact.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

how could it be pass interference if the ball was picked off 5 yards before reaching the reciever? Just like if a ball is tipped at the LOS, refs got it right and Brady was just being a baby.

funny how gronk and the db are right next to each other at one point, and while it was apparently catchable by the db gronk just couldn't seem to get to that same spot for some reason.......

They were moving in different directions, that's why.

 

[CalBear]

My answer for all of them is the same. Where the ball is doesn't matter. What do they call now when 2 people are pushing each other? Call that. In this case I would say they would either call nothing if it's minor contact or call interference on both if it's major contact.

OK, first, almost everyone would disagree with your assertion that where the ball is doesn't matter. If they threw a PI flag for contact on the other side of the field from where the ball is, they'd throw it on every pass play.

And there's no such thing as a PI call on both players. It's one way or the other, and it's a judgement call. Sometimes the right judgement is a no-call.

 

[ShockTheMonkey]

At worst Brady should have been ejected from the game. And since the game was already over, it's a moot point.

See how that works? Defender attempts to tackle Gronk while the ball is in the air, but since the ball is intercepted, it's a moot point...flag is picked up.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Class is not something Brady usually displays, but fined for this? Suspended? Let's be serious.

Classy is about one of the last words I'd use to describe Brady.

Don't say such things. He's the greatest.

 

[ShockTheMonkey]

how could it be pass interference if the ball was picked off 5 yards before reaching the reciever? Just like if a ball is tipped at the LOS, refs got it right and Brady was just being a baby.

funny how gronk and the db are right next to each other at one point, and while it was apparently catchable by the db gronk just couldn't seem to get to that same spot for some reason.......

Their momentums were moving in opposite directions.

The difference is that the DB was moving forward, Gronk was running his route towards the end line, and Keuchley had position on the inside. Anyone who watches that replay and sees Gronk getting pushed backwards isn't paying attention. Keuchley had position and doesn't HAVE to move to let him come back for the ball, and Gronk's momentum wouldn't have let him anyways.

Gronk would've had to go THROUGH Keuchley and AROUND the DB to get to the ball. It's not as simple as Gronk taking two steps forward.

And it's also true that if Brady hadn't been pressured and was able to loft the ball to the back of the endzone like he wanted to, he'd have gotten the call.

actually, the difference is that gronk was being tackled before the ball ever got there, while the db wasn't.

that said, this entire conversation is pointless.

Actually, you're wrong. Gronk's route was to run at the goal post. That's where his route was going, and that's where his momentum was taking him. Keuchley definitely made contact with him, but he didn't restrict him from coming back and didn't force him anywhere. Gronk never even planted his foot in an ATTEMPT to come back, and he didn't even immediately motion for a flag. He only did so AFTER seeing the flag on the ground... it's clear on the replay. He stands there for a second, starts walking, looks down and sees the flag, and THEN starts pointing. He wasn't acting like a guy who was pissed off that he was interfered with.

It's all moot if Brady throws the ball where he was supposed to, because then Gronk would've made an actual attempt to catch it, been interfered with, and the Pats would've had another chance.

I love how people talk about this like it was a guarantee they'd score on one play from the one, anyways.

Perhaps that's because Kuechly already had a good push going as Gronkowski went to plant?

And by then, he'd have had to go through both the DB AND Keuchley, who had inside position, to catch an underthrown ball from Brady.

I get it, there was PI. But this whining and moaning that the ball had any chance of being caught by Gronk is ridiculous. It's not like Gronk had to simply stop and get there. He had 2 people between him and where the ball landed.

I couldn't care less about either team because the Steelers aren't going anywhere this year, but Brady's underthrow is the reason the call wasn't made.

If a running play goes to the right, but there is holding on the left side of the field, do the refs throw a flag? Or do they say that it's ok because the held player had no chance to make a tackle anyway?

 

[CalBear]

If a running play goes to the right, but there is holding on the left side of the field, do the refs throw a flag? Or do they say that it's ok because the held player had no chance to make a tackle anyway?

The answer is yes, refs consider the impact on the play when making a call. Holding on running plays is rare for this exact reason. There's something that could be called holding on virtually every play.

 

[thehornet]

There is no question that Carolina committed PI on the last play of what was as good a MNF game as almost any Super Bowl I have ever seen. I was thoroughly entertained for 60 minutes of football. Here is where I have a major problem and the double standard in the NFL.

Brady on his way off the field and with Ryan Mallet on his left and the referee Clete Blakeman on his right decided to unload a short list of profanities on the referee. The F bomb plus BS came flying out of his mouth. If that were Dez Bryant it would be all over Twitter in 10 seconds and Roger Goodell would have to hold a special meeting on what to do with him. That footage will make its way around but I highly doubt Brady will receive any consequences.

Take a look...

http://larrybrownsports.com/football/tom-brady-f-bomb-referee-video-clete-blakeman/211202

And the refs have been very good to Brady over the years, many times bailing him out with roughing the passer calls, phantom PI calls that were like the last play of the game tonight only in reverse. I will be eager to hear what if anything happens to Uncle Tom tomorrow but I doubt much of anything comes of it.

ESPN had the footage, whether they decide to make it into much, we'll see. But if you have the full game on DVR tonight, watch Brady a he exits the field. He isn't shaking hands and con grads to the Panthers after a monumental all time great NFL game, instead he is crying to the refs and cussing them out as he leaves the field. We talk about class, where was the class on that instance?

Do the the right thing Roger and make an example out of him like you have done with everybody else you hold to that double standard you have tucked away in your office.

Sincerely,

The Ministry of Pain

lmao

 

[Alex P Keaton]

My answer for all of them is the same. Where the ball is doesn't matter. What do they call now when 2 people are pushing each other? Call that. In this case I would say they would either call nothing if it's minor contact or call interference on both if it's major contact.

OK, first, almost everyone would disagree with your assertion that where the ball is doesn't matter. If they threw a PI flag for contact on the other side of the field from where the ball is, they'd throw it on every pass play.

And there's no such thing as a PI call on both players. It's one way or the other, and it's a judgement call. Sometimes the right judgement is a no-call.

Sure. Few people would dispute that. This wasn't one of those times.

 

[CalBear]

My answer for all of them is the same. Where the ball is doesn't matter. What do they call now when 2 people are pushing each other? Call that. In this case I would say they would either call nothing if it's minor contact or call interference on both if it's major contact.

OK, first, almost everyone would disagree with your assertion that where the ball is doesn't matter. If they threw a PI flag for contact on the other side of the field from where the ball is, they'd throw it on every pass play.

And there's no such thing as a PI call on both players. It's one way or the other, and it's a judgement call. Sometimes the right judgement is a no-call.

Sure. Few people would dispute that. This wasn't one of those times.

I am responding to someone who is asserting that judgement should be taken out of officiating. I'm saying that's not possible.

I personally think no-call is the right call on the Gronk play. The rule says that it's not interference if the ball is uncatchable by the players involved in the contact. It seems clear that the ball was uncatchable by Gronkowski or by Keuchley, because it was intercepted in front of both of them. And, what contact there was, was initiated by Gronkowski.

In any case, it's clear that PI will always be a judgement call, no matter how you write the rule.

 

[ghostguy123]

I had always thought "uncatchable" meant where the ball would end up.

Had Gronk not been grabbed, and had that defender not been there to intercept it, then the ball DEFINITELY would have been catchable.

I realize any contact after the defender touches the ball doesn't matter, but cleary the part of that contact had become illegal BEFORE the ball was touched by the guy who intercepted it.

So yeah, the ball was uncatchable, but only because the guy was there to intercept it. I guess I didn't realize that mattered for pass interference.

As for Brady's rant. 100% total non-issue in my book, and I guarantee you that ref brushed it off like it was nothing. I am pretty sure he is smart enough to realize that a flag being thrown and then picked up in that instance would severely tick everyone off, and he probably would have been surprised if someone DIDN'T cuss them out over it.

 

[ShockTheMonkey]

I had always thought "uncatchable" meant where the ball would end up.

Had Gronk not been grabbed, and had that defender not been there to intercept it, then the ball DEFINITELY would have been catchable.

I realize any contact after the defender touches the ball doesn't matter, but cleary the part of that contact had become illegal BEFORE the ball was touched by the guy who intercepted it.

So yeah, the ball was uncatchable, but only because the guy was there to intercept it. I guess I didn't realize that mattered for pass interference.

As for Brady's rant. 100% total non-issue in my book, and I guarantee you that ref brushed it off like it was nothing. I am pretty sure he is smart enough to realize that a flag being thrown and then picked up in that instance would severely tick everyone off, and he probably would have been surprised if someone DIDN'T cuss them out over it.

Good point. I'm also puzzled a bit by the definition of "uncatchable." How can the pass be ruled uncatchable when someone from the Panthers caught it. Does "uncatchable" mean that the intended receiver couldn't catch it? Or what I always thought it meant...that the pass was 20 feet in the air sailing out of bounds. If it's the first definition, then why not just tackle the receiver before the ball gets to him and claim that the pass was "uncatchable" because the intended receiver was laying on the ground with a defender on top of him.

I'm being a bit over the top here, but my question still remains, what is it that makes a pass "uncatchable?"

 

[CalBear]

So yeah, the ball was uncatchable, but only because the guy was there to intercept it. I guess I didn't realize that mattered for pass interference.

It does. The rule is that the ball has to be catchable by the players involved in the contact; if the ball gets picked off before it gets to them, it's not PI.

Some might argue that the ball was still catchable by Gronkowski in this specific situation, but as I've said, I like the no-call.

 

[ghostguy123]

So yeah, the ball was uncatchable, but only because the guy was there to intercept it. I guess I didn't realize that mattered for pass interference.

It does. The rule is that the ball has to be catchable by the players involved in the contact; if the ball gets picked off before it gets to them, it's not PI.

Some might argue that the ball was still catchable by Gronkowski in this specific situation, but as I've said, I like the no-call.

It might not have been catchable by Gronk, but if he was able to get back to the ball he he could have forced the linebacker to drop it, and the ball could have bounced somewhere else and be caught by someone else.

I like the no call in the sense that it certainly, 99.9999%, would not have been caught by a pats player..................but really, it was a penalty and would have been called a penalty if it happened earlier in the game.

And for the post above you, yes, uncatchable by the player being interfered with.