Transgender boy Mack Beggs wins Texas state girls' wrestling title (1 Viewer)

[Henry Ford]

I'm not certain that anyone has been suggesting that. I know that I haven't. It's simply what is happening whether you see it that way or not.

The articles I'm referencing include interviews that refer to what Beggs is doing as "doping" and "cheating."  That's disingenuous.

 

[Henry Ford]

It's disingenuous to say "he HAD TO wrestle girls because they wouldn't let him wrestle boys" , right?

Unless it's obviously shorthand for "if he wanted to wrestle, he had to wrestle girls."

 

[Henry Ford]

Does it make any difference to anyone that when Beggs started transitioning it would have been totally legal for him to go against the boys, but Texas changed the rules four months after he started hormone treatments?

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Does it make any difference to anyone that when Beggs started transitioning it would have been totally legal for him to go against the boys, but Texas changed the rules four months after he started hormone treatments?

It makes a difference to me. It makes me think less of state athletics organizations than I already had, which was not much to begin with

It doesn't change my mind about whether this person should have wrestled girls

 

[Henry Ford]

It makes a difference to me. It makes me think less of state athletics organizations than I already had, which was not much to begin with

It doesn't change my mind about whether this person should have wrestled girls

It wouldn't have been my choice, but I don't care about wrestling.  Never enjoyed it, never competed.

The problem is that the Texas response was basically "We don't have to change our rules.  What's he going to do, wrestle girls and get ridiculed?  Haha.  He'll go away and we won't have to deal with him."  Which is why I have a hard time saying what he should do in this situation.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I don't have a problem with a person being whatever he or she wants to be, but I don't understand why someone transitioning to be a male, would wrestle with females?  If this person wants to be a male, why would he not wrestle with other men?  

Hopefully this changes the rule.  

I definitely also understand the argument that he was juiced up in some capacity. I mean look at the picture, he has armpit hair and the gun show is on full display. He obviously did not come naturally to that point, so it's a bit unfair to the other competitors.

would it make you feel better if he /she shaved the pits like the other girls do? or wax that upper lip? 

 

[Cowboysfan8]

It wouldn't have been my choice, but I don't care about wrestling.  Never enjoyed it, never competed.

The problem is that the Texas response was basically "We don't have to change our rules.  What's he going to do, wrestle girls and get ridiculed?  Haha.  He'll go away and we won't have to deal with him."  Which is why I have a hard time saying what he should do in this situation.

That's fair.

We think differently, that's all.

I think he could've petitioned the athletic association, went to the papers/news stations .. " all I want to do is wrestle the boys, that's where I should be competing, but the state won't let me".

I think that would've put him in a better light with the public than, "well, they won't let me wrestle boys, I'll just go whoop up on the girls for two yrs". 

Would've made him a bigger person Imo.

 

[Henry Ford]

That's fair.

We think differently, that's all.

I think he could've petitioned the athletic association, went to the papers/news stations .. " all I want to do is wrestle the boys, that's where I should be competing, but the state won't let me".

I think that would've put him in a better light with the public than, "well, they won't let me wrestle boys, I'll just go whoop up on the girls for two yrs". 

Would've made him a bigger person Imo.

He did petition the athletic association - repeatedly. And the school asked him not to do media, so he didn't.

 

[thayman]

He did petition the athletic association - repeatedly. And the school asked him not to do media, so he didn't.

There you go again bringing those fancy facts to the conversation.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

He did petition the athletic association - repeatedly. And the school asked him not to do media, so he didn't.

So decide on your own that the right thing to do is not wrestle against girls?

We're never going to agree, no biggie

 

[kentric]

Count me in as someone who thinks this is totally unfair to the natural born girls competing in the event.  

Having someone who has the musculature of a male competing against women is a joke.  "Political correctness" has gone too far.

 

[Henry Ford]

Count me in as someone who thinks this is totally unfair to the natural born girls competing in the event.  

Having someone who has the musculature of a male competing against women is a joke.  "Political correctness" has gone too far.

Political correctness would allow him to compete against boys. 

 

[Tom Skerritt]

The ultimate response would be to wrestle the girls, win the state title, and then denounce and reject the title.

I want to believe that this kid is trying make a statement, and good for him. But to me, it just seems like the wrong statement. There are so many better ways to get your point across than forcing every other female wrestler to suffer for your cause... unless of course he got consent from each of the girls beforehand.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

I want to believe that this kid is trying make a statement, and good for him. But to me, it just seems like the wrong statement. There are so many better ways to get your point across than forcing every other female wrestler to suffer for your cause... unless of course he got consent from each of the girls beforehand.

I agree.

The kid was being selfish imo

 

[parasaurolophus]

He did petition the athletic association - repeatedly. And the school asked him not to do media, so he didn't.

Are you sure he petitioned them? I have read in some places he did not. Obviously the head of the athletic association is biased, so his words may be misleading.. 

I don't know how well that story has been told, to be honest with you," Harrison said. "We still have not received a request from any school or individual to wrestle in a different gender division than that which their birth certificate would qualify them for.

At least here his mom admits they never petitioned the state. I realize state and athletic association may mean different things..

"In all honesty, we never did petition the state because we read the [birth certificate] law and the law is very clear," Nancy Beggs said. "But the UIL knows. They knew Mack wanted to wrestle boys. But they also knew our hands were tied, just as theirs were." 

Now it's too late, but if given a do-over, would he have filed a petition?

"In a heartbeat," his mother said. "Even if he would have lost every single match -- and I'm not saying he would have lost, knowing how competitive my son is -- he would have done it excitedly. If given the opportunity."

 

[Henry Ford]

I agree.

The kid was being selfish imo

I’ve got no problem with someone who comes out of a mental hospital for suicidal ideation, gets approved for the medical treatment that fixes that problem, and then has the athletic association pull the rug out from under him with new rules they won’t fix for him to make them fair being selfish. 

 

[Cowboysfan8]

I’ve got no problem with someone who comes out of a mental hospital for suicidal ideation, gets approved for the medical treatment that fixes that problem, and then has the athletic association pull the rug out from under him with new rules they won’t fix for him to make them fair being selfish. 

You're entitled to your opinion. Even if it's wrong 

 

[Henry Ford]

Are you sure he petitioned them? I have read in some places he did not. Obviously the head of the athletic association is biased, so his words may be misleading.. 

At least here his mom admits they never petitioned the state. I realize state and athletic association may mean different things..

You forgot the paragraph before that.

Nancy Beggs estimated that she has communicated at least a dozen times with UIL officials during the last 18 months, including twice early this season, without being told or hinted to that Mack might have a path to compete against males.

"In all honesty, we never did petition the state because we read the [birth certificate] law and the law is very clear," Nancy Beggs said. "But the UIL knows. They knew Mack wanted to wrestle boys. But they also knew our hands were tied, just as theirs were."

The Independent says Beggs has repeatedly requested.

The wrestler has repeatedly asked authorities to compete in the boys’ division, but rules for Texas public high schools require athletes to enter tournaments under the gender on their birth certificate.

It's certainly possible he never filed a formal request.  Or known he could.  Nancy Beggs isn't his mother, it's his grandmother, who has custody.  And she says she's talked to them repeatedly expressing this desire.  I certainly don't have anything to contradict what she says, or know for sure she's talking about the UIL.

 

[Moe.]

Pretty sure there is no such thing as NCAA women's wrestling anyhow, so we can all rest easy with the knowledge that this monster isn't hurting anyone's chances at a scholarship. 

Incorrect.  Here at the numbers:

                                                                                Male          Female

Number of US High School Wrestlers 2016-17     244,804      14,587

Number of College Wrestlers (see table above)       10,568         517

NCAA and college are not the same thing.

 

[kentric]

Political correctness would allow him to compete against boys. 

Only for conservatives. haha

 

[Henry Ford]

Only for conservatives. haha

What are you talking about?

 

[I am the Walrus]

NCAA and college are not the same thing.

NCAA and college are not the same thing.

Not sure what your point is.  There are many women’s wrestling programs at all levels.  It is one of the fastest growing sports.  Here’s an article I saw just a few minutes ago.

https://www.gjsentinel.com/sports/cmu/mesa-adding-women-s-wrestling-to-sports-stable/article_bec0930e-1d1e-11e8-ace3-10604b9f7e7c.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=user-share

 

[Moe.]

Not sure what your point is.  There are many women’s wrestling programs at all levels.  It is one of the fastest growing sports.  Here’s an article I saw just a few minutes ago.

https://www.gjsentinel.com/sports/cmu/mesa-adding-women-s-wrestling-to-sports-stable/article_bec0930e-1d1e-11e8-ace3-10604b9f7e7c.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=user-share

The original post said he was potentially taking scholarships away from other girls, which was a silly point to make in the first place. My response was the women's wrestling is not a thing as far as the NCAA or NAIA is concerned, which is correct. I was incorrect in that there are no scholarships though. Per the governing body of women's collegiate wrestling all 30 members do offer scholarships. I figured it was done at the club level like other sports. Women's wrestling is in the process of being approved by the NCAA as an emerging sport, which will hopefully lead to more programs and more opportunities. 

http://www.nwcaonline.com/growing-wrestling/growing-womens-wrestling/womens-wrestling-facts-resources/#womens-collegiate-wrestling-association-wcwa-information

 

[I am the Walrus]

The original post said he was potentially taking scholarships away from other girls, which was a silly point to make in the first place. My response was the women's wrestling is not a thing as far as the NCAA or NAIA is concerned, which is correct. I was incorrect in that there are no scholarships though. Per the governing body of women's collegiate wrestling all 30 members do offer scholarships. I figured it was done at the club level like other sports. Women's wrestling is in the process of being approved by the NCAA as an emerging sport, which will hopefully lead to more programs and more opportunities. 

http://www.nwcaonline.com/growing-wrestling/growing-womens-wrestling/womens-wrestling-facts-resources/#womens-collegiate-wrestling-association-wcwa-information

Got it. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[T J]

You forgot the paragraph before that.

The Independent says Beggs has repeatedly requested.

It's certainly possible he never filed a formal request.  Or known he could.  Nancy Beggs isn't his mother, it's his grandmother, who has custody.  And she says she's talked to them repeatedly expressing this desire.  I certainly don't have anything to contradict what she says, or know for sure she's talking about the UIL.

"He" is not a he. "SHE" is a she.

 

[Henry Ford]

"He" is not a he. "SHE" is a she.

Yeah, everyone knows your position. We got it. You don’t believe in transgender people. 

 

[Hilts]

The ultimate response would be to wrestle the girls, win the state title, and then denounce and reject the title.

I want to believe that this kid is trying make a statement, and good for him. But to me, it just seems like the wrong statement. There are so many better ways to get your point across than forcing every other female wrestler to suffer for your cause... unless of course he got consent from each of the girls beforehand.

At the end of the day, it's still a kid. We seem to be demanding a lot from him while giving the adults forcing him into the situation a pass they don't deserve. 

I think this kid is handling it fine.