Understanding airline compensation (1 Viewer)

[Tecumseh]

Flying back from Costa Rica yesterday on Frontier, our flight was delayed for a couple of hours, with no real explanation. We were due in to Atlanta at about midnight, but apparently customs closes in Atlanta at 10:30, so we had to divert to Miami to clear customs.

When we arrived in Miami, there was very little information on what the next step would be. Ultimately, everyone was given a $150 voucher for a future flight, and we were put in hotels for the night.

Flight to atlanta was scheduled for 10am this morning, but was again delayed, and we took off at 11, finally getting into Atlanta about 12:30.

There is conflicting information on what the airlines are required to provide as compensation for delays. We don’t know whether the initial delay was “controllable” or “uncontrollable.”

We did incur additional expenses because of the delay (food, additional day of parking), and I really don’t care to fly Frontier again, so will likely not use the voucher. Does anyone know if the steps that Frontier took (voucher, hotel, and rebooking) satisfy their legal obligations?

 

[fruity pebbles]

Lucky they gave you that. They don’t really have to give you much of anything.

 

[Bogeys]

All depends on the reason for delay as to what is owed.

 

[gianmarco]

My recommendation is to write a complaint to the airline. Document it and be specific.

 

[Scoresman]

Usually I'm against government sticking their noses into this kind of stuff, but the airline industry needs to be taken to task for so much of this crap. Purposely overbooking flights, cryptic reimbursement language, squeezing as much comfort out of the cabin as possible, etc.

A flight like yours that had to be diverted to a completely different city should have been a full refund (in cash, not credits) and rebooking AND comped at a local hotel.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

American just says it was weather and gives you nothing

 

[DA RAIDERS]

It’s a strange business. I once received $800 each, for me, the wife and daughter, to volunteer off a flight and to fly out the next day. We were in Jackson WY. Our initial tickets were only $250. So $2400 to spend the night. They took care of airport transit and the hotel.

 

[JAA]

I had the most amazingly horrible experience with Delta. In the end they literally told me I was lying and they would not give me anything. I wrote and wrote and wrote, nothing.

Now I just refuse to fly Delta ever again and I would not recommend them to anyone ever.

 

[the moops]

I had the most amazingly horrible experience with Delta. In the end they literally told me I was lying and they would not give me anything. I wrote and wrote and wrote, nothing.

Now I just refuse to fly Delta ever again and I would not recommend them to anyone ever.

Hmm. Delta is my top choice for flying whenever possible

 

[JAA]

History will not be kind to airlines. However, those exec's wont care as they will all have made bank

 

[Scoresman]

I had the most amazingly horrible experience with Delta. In the end they literally told me I was lying and they would not give me anything. I wrote and wrote and wrote, nothing.

Now I just refuse to fly Delta ever again and I would not recommend them to anyone ever.

Hmm. Delta is my top choice for flying whenever possible

I used to love Delta but had a horrible experience as well. Needed to change a flight because they changed the time of a connecting flight, and their online system is terrible. The flight change request kept failing at the last minute, but we noticed a day later that we were charged the flight change fee for each attempt we made. Spent hours on the phone trying to get the reimbursement.

Our new go to airline is Alaska.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

History will not be kind to airlines.

Eh. Life is full of things that annoy us without rising to the level of historical injustices.

 

[massraider]

It’s a strange business. I once received $800 each, for me, the wife and daughter, to volunteer off a flight and to fly out the next day. We were in Jackson WY. Our initial tickets were only $250. So $2400 to spend the night. They took care of airport transit and the hotel.

Ordinary flight, ordinary day?

This sounds like a similar experience I had in Aspen, with a girlfriend trying to fly out after a storm, and a bunch of cancelled flights. Even when you checked in electronically, there was repeated requests (at least 3) to give up your seat. I don't know what the biggest offers were, because I was ready for her to leave, but people on a Frontier flight to ATL should not expect ski resort desperation prices, lol.
From what I recall about what airlines are required to provide, hotel room and $150 sounds about right. On Frontier, that's another ticket, maybe two.

 

[Anarchy99]

One time my wife and I were traveling together and couldn't get the same flight home. Her return flight (nonstop) left early in the morning and did not have any issues. While I waited for my flight (also non-stop), the weather took a dramatic turn (massive thunderstorms, heavy rain and wind). The plane that was supposed to be used for my flight got diverted. The airline made a Plan B for me to fly somewhere else involving a connecting flight back home. My flight was late and by the time I got there, my connecting flight had already left. Plan C had me fly to another airport with another connecting flight, and that didn't work out either.

I made it to the third airport, but again, I had missed my connecting flight. When I got to that airport (late at night), I found there were no more flights that day but there was one more flight out at the next closest airport on a different airline. I didn't have time to get my ticketing situation fixed and paid for a cab to catch that flight. I made that flight (from airport #4), had to pay an insane amount for my ticket, and made it back to my home airport. At that point, it was like 3 AM, and I had to take a ride service home.

I contacted the airline (I think it was American), who said document all my expenses and they would reimburse me. I included meals, ticketing expenses, cab fare, the ride service, etc. No problems or issues, they mailed me a check for the total amount, and they included a voucher for a free domestic flight. Easy-peasy. The amusing part was, the day after I received and deposited the check, I got a letter from the airline indicating that the delays were weather related and out of their control, and they had denied my request and would not be paying me a dime.

 

[Jobber]

If it’s weather related, airlines won’t compensate for that. If it’s a crew issue (ex flight crew was delayed on a previous flight, thus delaying yours), airlines should compensate if it results in missing your next leg or getting dropped into another city. Same story with equipment issues.

I’m not familiar with Frontier, but send in a complaint and ask what they can do for you.

Source: my wife does this as her job at another airline.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

It’s a strange business. I once received $800 each, for me, the wife and daughter, to volunteer off a flight and to fly out the next day. We were in Jackson WY. Our initial tickets were only $250. So $2400 to spend the night. They took care of airport transit and the hotel.

Ordinary flight, ordinary day?

This sounds like a similar experience I had in Aspen, with a girlfriend trying to fly out after a storm, and a bunch of cancelled flights. Even when you checked in electronically, there was repeated requests (at least 3) to give up your seat. I don't know what the biggest offers were, because I was ready for her to leave, but people on a Frontier flight to ATL should not expect ski resort desperation prices, lol.
From what I recall about what airlines are required to provide, hotel room and $150 sounds about right. On Frontier, that's another ticket, maybe two.

there had been a small storm and they needed to make the plane lighter. at least that's what they told me

 

[nirad3]

Nothing really to add other than Frontier sucks. They outright canceled my flight twice (DEN and LVR) with no compensation nor any direction to get another flight. Just "sorry, canceled, good luck".

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Nothing really to add other than Frontier sucks. They outright canceled my flight twice (DEN and LVR) with no compensation nor any direction to get another flight. Just "sorry, canceled, good luck".

yep. they suck. against my better judgement, i'm taking the greyhound bus* to vegas for the raider game in nov.


*spirit

 

[nirad3]

Nothing really to add other than Frontier sucks. They outright canceled my flight twice (DEN and LVR) with no compensation nor any direction to get another flight. Just "sorry, canceled, good luck".

yep. they suck. against my better judgement, i'm taking the greyhound bus* to vegas for the raider game in nov.


*spirit

How much cheaper was that than Southwest? Did you check Long Beach? Actually, we flew Spirit once from Minneapolis to LAX and it was actually OK.

 

[Orange&Blue]

there is no possible mathematical equation to figure out airline decision making

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Nothing really to add other than Frontier sucks. They outright canceled my flight twice (DEN and LVR) with no compensation nor any direction to get another flight. Just "sorry, canceled, good luck".

yep. they suck. against my better judgement, i'm taking the greyhound bus* to vegas for the raider game in nov.


*spirit

How much cheaper was that than Southwest? Did you check Long Beach? Actually, we flew Spirit once from Minneapolis to LAX and it was actually OK.

john wayne. and southwest is ALWAYS more

 

[massraider]

*spirit

You have a much better chance for an exciting story than those scaredy-cats taking a real airline. Good for you.

 

[Tecumseh]

I think my travel insurance may provide some relief. I had forgotten that I even bought it.

 

[JAA]

History will not be kind to airlines.

Eh. Life is full of things that annoy us without rising to the level of historical injustices.

It's a cabal. It's literally the railroad barons all over. Show me how I'm wrong.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

History will not be kind to airlines.

Eh. Life is full of things that annoy us without rising to the level of historical injustices.

It's a cabal. It's literally the railroad barons all over. Show me how I'm wrong.

I guess it depends on what exactly you think is going wrong with air travel. The main issue AFAICT is that that air travel has gotten much, much less expensive than it used to be back in the olden days. But we haven't really added capacity to keep up with the additional volume. Nearly every problem that I can think of associated with air travel is directly related to the problem of having too many passengers and not enough capacity. "Capacity" here means not just terminals and runways, but also a functional ATC system and resilient logistics systems. Obviously we lack that.

 

[Scoresman]

I will never fly a discount airline again.

Was waiting to go home from Vegas on a Spirit flight one time. The plane arrives and everyone deboards including the crew. A half hour later, they come on the loudspeaker and say that the flight is delayed because they didn't have a flight crew scheduled for the flight. The crew that left was supposed to be our crew. They said they would be calling the crew that left back to run the flight.

About another half hour later, the pilot comes back, his hair clearly disheveled, and uniform hastily put on. This was Vegas, so it was clear to me he was probably three lines of coke and two hookers into enjoying his down time before being called back to fly our plane. The flight attendants were also visibly pissed off the entire flight.

 

[Jobber]

It’s a strange business. I once received $800 each, for me, the wife and daughter, to volunteer off a flight and to fly out the next day. We were in Jackson WY. Our initial tickets were only $250. So $2400 to spend the night. They took care of airport transit and the hotel.

Ordinary flight, ordinary day?

This sounds like a similar experience I had in Aspen, with a girlfriend trying to fly out after a storm, and a bunch of cancelled flights. Even when you checked in electronically, there was repeated requests (at least 3) to give up your seat. I don't know what the biggest offers were, because I was ready for her to leave, but people on a Frontier flight to ATL should not expect ski resort desperation prices, lol.
From what I recall about what airlines are required to provide, hotel room and $150 sounds about right. On Frontier, that's another ticket, maybe two.

there had been a small storm and they needed to make the plane lighter. at least that's what they told me

This happens more than you’d imagine. Almost always it’s on very hot days. They’ll have to move dozens of passengers to another flight because the plane won’t be able to take off in that heat without lightening the load.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

It’s a strange business. I once received $800 each, for me, the wife and daughter, to volunteer off a flight and to fly out the next day. We were in Jackson WY. Our initial tickets were only $250. So $2400 to spend the night. They took care of airport transit and the hotel.

Ordinary flight, ordinary day?

This sounds like a similar experience I had in Aspen, with a girlfriend trying to fly out after a storm, and a bunch of cancelled flights. Even when you checked in electronically, there was repeated requests (at least 3) to give up your seat. I don't know what the biggest offers were, because I was ready for her to leave, but people on a Frontier flight to ATL should not expect ski resort desperation prices, lol.
From what I recall about what airlines are required to provide, hotel room and $150 sounds about right. On Frontier, that's another ticket, maybe two.

there had been a small storm and they needed to make the plane lighter. at least that's what they told me

This happens more than you’d imagine. Almost always it’s on very hot days. They’ll have to move dozens of passengers to another flight because the plane won’t be able to take off in that heat without lightening the load.

it was February in WY

 

[culdeus]

It’s a strange business. I once received $800 each, for me, the wife and daughter, to volunteer off a flight and to fly out the next day. We were in Jackson WY. Our initial tickets were only $250. So $2400 to spend the night. They took care of airport transit and the hotel.

Ordinary flight, ordinary day?

This sounds like a similar experience I had in Aspen, with a girlfriend trying to fly out after a storm, and a bunch of cancelled flights. Even when you checked in electronically, there was repeated requests (at least 3) to give up your seat. I don't know what the biggest offers were, because I was ready for her to leave, but people on a Frontier flight to ATL should not expect ski resort desperation prices, lol.
From what I recall about what airlines are required to provide, hotel room and $150 sounds about right. On Frontier, that's another ticket, maybe two.

there had been a small storm and they needed to make the plane lighter. at least that's what they told me

This happens more than you’d imagine. Almost always it’s on very hot days. They’ll have to move dozens of passengers to another flight because the plane won’t be able to take off in that heat without lightening the load.

Yo mama so fat that...

 

[Bogeys]

It’s a strange business. I once received $800 each, for me, the wife and daughter, to volunteer off a flight and to fly out the next day. We were in Jackson WY. Our initial tickets were only $250. So $2400 to spend the night. They took care of airport transit and the hotel.

Ordinary flight, ordinary day?

This sounds like a similar experience I had in Aspen, with a girlfriend trying to fly out after a storm, and a bunch of cancelled flights. Even when you checked in electronically, there was repeated requests (at least 3) to give up your seat. I don't know what the biggest offers were, because I was ready for her to leave, but people on a Frontier flight to ATL should not expect ski resort desperation prices, lol.
From what I recall about what airlines are required to provide, hotel room and $150 sounds about right. On Frontier, that's another ticket, maybe two.

there had been a small storm and they needed to make the plane lighter. at least that's what they told me

This happens more than you’d imagine. Almost always it’s on very hot days. They’ll have to move dozens of passengers to another flight because the plane won’t be able to take off in that heat without lightening the load.

Or unload some of the freight...but it is easier to screw pay compensation to individual customers than to pay penalties over the contracted freight.

 

[JAA]

History will not be kind to airlines.

Eh. Life is full of things that annoy us without rising to the level of historical injustices.

It's a cabal. It's literally the railroad barons all over. Show me how I'm wrong.

I guess it depends on what exactly you think is going wrong with air travel. The main issue AFAICT is that that air travel has gotten much, much less expensive than it used to be back in the olden days. But we haven't really added capacity to keep up with the additional volume. Nearly every problem that I can think of associated with air travel is directly related to the problem of having too many passengers and not enough capacity. "Capacity" here means not just terminals and runways, but also a functional ATC system and resilient logistics systems. Obviously we lack that.

Cabal - price fixing. Examples:

• Dead legging should be legal and isnt. Why not?
• Scheduling during school year and breaks are 2x more expensive. Why?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Cabal - price fixing. Examples:

• Dead legging should be legal and isnt. Why not?
• Scheduling during school year and breaks are 2x more expensive. Why?

I had to google what "dead legging" is, and I don't understand why it's a problem. I can see where it's the sort of thing that a well-run logistical operation would like to avoid, but price fixing?

For the second part, this seems pretty easy to explain with plain old supply and demand.

 

[titusbramble]

History will not be kind to airlines.

Eh. Life is full of things that annoy us without rising to the level of historical injustices.

It's a cabal. It's literally the railroad barons all over. Show me how I'm wrong.

I guess it depends on what exactly you think is going wrong with air travel. The main issue AFAICT is that that air travel has gotten much, much less expensive than it used to be back in the olden days. But we haven't really added capacity to keep up with the additional volume. Nearly every problem that I can think of associated with air travel is directly related to the problem of having too many passengers and not enough capacity. "Capacity" here means not just terminals and runways, but also a functional ATC system and resilient logistics systems. Obviously we lack that.

Cabal - price fixing. Examples:

• Dead legging should be legal and isnt. Why not?
• Scheduling during school year and breaks are 2x more expensive. Why?

On the second point, supply and demand is a thing.

But yeah, the entire airline industry and the lack of consumer rights in the US does baffle me. Had a Frontier flight delayed 10+ hours and I get the entirety of a meal ticket that barely stretched to a burger and a $50 voucher which as I was not going back to the States any time soon was completely worthless. Whereas here, when I had a flight delayed just four hours I got 250 euros straight cash. For a flight that cost less than £25. Of which more than half was tax

 

[culdeus]

Cabal - price fixing. Examples:

• Dead legging should be legal and isnt. Why not?
• Scheduling during school year and breaks are 2x more expensive. Why?

I had to google what "dead legging" is, and I don't understand why it's a problem. I can see where it's the sort of thing that a well-run logistical operation would like to avoid, but price fixing?

For the second part, this seems pretty easy to explain with plain old supply and demand.

The airlines claim it opens a security issue in that you can have a checked bag with a bomb go onto a different plane or something. This is ******** but they say it.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Cabal - price fixing. Examples:

• Dead legging should be legal and isnt. Why not?
• Scheduling during school year and breaks are 2x more expensive. Why?

I had to google what "dead legging" is, and I don't understand why it's a problem. I can see where it's the sort of thing that a well-run logistical operation would like to avoid, but price fixing?

For the second part, this seems pretty easy to explain with plain old supply and demand.

The airlines claim it opens a security issue in that you can have a checked bag with a bomb go onto a different plane or something. This is ******** but they say it.

Are you talking about the thing where people intentionally disembark at a layover airport? Airlines have price discrimination down to a science, and the reason why they punish you for doing that is because they don't want you finding loopholes around their pricing structure. I understand why people find that unpleasant, but it isn't collusion. Lots of firms engage in price discrimination. Once you become aware of how this is done, you see it in pretty much every consumer market.

(Also, of course, people like us benefit from price discrimination when we're putting our families on a plane for the Grand Canyon or whatever. The big losers here are firms that reimburse employees for lots of business travel.)

 

[Dr_Zaius]

Airlines have price discrimination down to a science, and the reason why they punish you for doing that is because they don't want you finding loopholes around their pricing structure.

I'd love to hear an explanation as to how some of their pricing makes sense, though. For instance, I live by a small airport so we get almost nothing direct, but I'm within a reasonable drive of EWR and PHL. It's not uncommon for the ticket to the local airport to be about half of the ticket to Newark or Philly, even though you are on the exact same plane for the main part of the trip, and then the airline has to transport you for the last leg as well. I can't understand how that makes any sense economically for them. They're trying to earn more profit off of the people that live in the direct flight cities, I guess?

People mentioned Delta upthread. I think they've eliminated it, but for a while they had a class of ticket that was perfect for the infrequent and solo traveler. You didn't get to pick your seat and were ineligible for frequent flyer miles. We booked a flight for my daughter with it for some absurd amount like $90. No tack-on fees for carry-ons, and she ended up getting a window seat in the middle of the plane. When I bought the ticket I had to click through like 3 screens of "you don't really want this piece of crap ticket, do you? wouldn't you like an upgrade?" This would have roughly doubled the ticket price, so I declined and opted for the super cheap fare. I read an article about it at the time where the CEO basically said they didn't want anyone actually picking that option - the idea was to lure people in with a low price and then convince them to upgrade.

 

[acarey50]

Airlines have price discrimination down to a science, and the reason why they punish you for doing that is because they don't want you finding loopholes around their pricing structure.

I'd love to hear an explanation as to how some of their pricing makes sense, though. For instance, I live by a small airport so we get almost nothing direct, but I'm within a reasonable drive of EWR and PHL. It's not uncommon for the ticket to the local airport to be about half of the ticket to Newark or Philly, even though you are on the exact same plane for the main part of the trip, and then the airline has to transport you for the last leg as well. I can't understand how that makes any sense economically for them. They're trying to earn more profit off of the people that live in the direct flight cities, I guess?

People mentioned Delta upthread. I think they've eliminated it, but for a while they had a class of ticket that was perfect for the infrequent and solo traveler. You didn't get to pick your seat and were ineligible for frequent flyer miles. We booked a flight for my daughter with it for some absurd amount like $90. No tack-on fees for carry-ons, and she ended up getting a window seat in the middle of the plane. When I bought the ticket I had to click through like 3 screens of "you don't really want this piece of crap ticket, do you? wouldn't you like an upgrade?" This would have roughly doubled the ticket price, so I declined and opted for the super cheap fare. I read an article about it at the time where the CEO basically said they didn't want anyone actually picking that option - the idea was to lure people in with a low price and then convince them to upgrade.

Was just looking at some options to fly on Alaska into Santa Rosa which is a very small airport but about 10 minutes from my parents compared to flying in to Oakland or San Francisco and dealing with the traffic, and got the same thing - $59 each way on certain days, but no seat selection etc. - next screen - for $30 more you can pick a seat and can change your flight on same day if needed (they have only one flight per day so that is useless), then next screen - for $30 more, you can make this a refundable ticket.

I ended up not booking anything as I need to figure out for sure what I can do around my kids schedules, but the bare bones price was right - though not sure how much to add a bag, though I've been able to get them checked through for free by just carrying on then volunteering to let them check it.

 

[massraider]

If you fly enough, you can get a 'never again' situation with every airline.

 

[culdeus]

Cabal - price fixing. Examples:

• Dead legging should be legal and isnt. Why not?
• Scheduling during school year and breaks are 2x more expensive. Why?

I had to google what "dead legging" is, and I don't understand why it's a problem. I can see where it's the sort of thing that a well-run logistical operation would like to avoid, but price fixing?

For the second part, this seems pretty easy to explain with plain old supply and demand.

The airlines claim it opens a security issue in that you can have a checked bag with a bomb go onto a different plane or something. This is ******** but they say it.

Are you talking about the thing where people intentionally disembark at a layover airport? Airlines have price discrimination down to a science, and the reason why they punish you for doing that is because they don't want you finding loopholes around their pricing structure. I understand why people find that unpleasant, but it isn't collusion. Lots of firms engage in price discrimination. Once you become aware of how this is done, you see it in pretty much every consumer market.

(Also, of course, people like us benefit from price discrimination when we're putting our families on a plane for the Grand Canyon or whatever. The big losers here are firms that reimburse employees for lots of business travel.)

Yes, skiplagging.

Airlines want to price by route, not by segment leading to the viability of skiplagging as an option. It's non competitive, but they control the narrative and regulations on such things.

 

[JAA]

Cabal - price fixing. Examples:

• Dead legging should be legal and isnt. Why not?
• Scheduling during school year and breaks are 2x more expensive. Why?

I had to google what "dead legging" is, and I don't understand why it's a problem. I can see where it's the sort of thing that a well-run logistical operation would like to avoid, but price fixing?

For the second part, this seems pretty easy to explain with plain old supply and demand.

Except its concerted. Thats the cabal.

 

[JAA]

Cabal - price fixing. Examples:

• Dead legging should be legal and isnt. Why not?
• Scheduling during school year and breaks are 2x more expensive. Why?

I had to google what "dead legging" is, and I don't understand why it's a problem. I can see where it's the sort of thing that a well-run logistical operation would like to avoid, but price fixing?

For the second part, this seems pretty easy to explain with plain old supply and demand.

The airlines claim it opens a security issue in that you can have a checked bag with a bomb go onto a different plane or something. This is ******** but they say it.

Are you talking about the thing where people intentionally disembark at a layover airport? Airlines have price discrimination down to a science, and the reason why they punish you for doing that is because they don't want you finding loopholes around their pricing structure. I understand why people find that unpleasant, but it isn't collusion. Lots of firms engage in price discrimination. Once you become aware of how this is done, you see it in pretty much every consumer market.

(Also, of course, people like us benefit from price discrimination when we're putting our families on a plane for the Grand Canyon or whatever. The big losers here are firms that reimburse employees for lots of business travel.)

But all of them do it. The same way. Like a cabal, concerted effort.

 

[nirad3]

If you fly enough, you can get a 'never again' situation with every airline.

I'm by no means a road warrior, but travel 1-2 times a month and have yet to be burned by a couple of the bigger names. Knock on wood, 2 trips in October to Omaha and Knoxville.

But put me in the "no Frontier" camp. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

Frontier ... dear Lord. Frontier and Ryan are the lowest of the low. Passengers are like cattle going to the slaughter. Delta, United, American ... they aren't perfect but are better. What the US consumer could really use is to allow international airlines to do flights within the US. More competition would go a long way to making us all happier. There's a reason all these lame airlines don't want it.

 

[Snoopy]

Frontier ... dear Lord. Frontier and Ryan are the lowest of the low. Passengers are like cattle going to the slaughter. Delta, United, American ... they aren't perfect but are better. What the US consumer could really use is to allow international airlines to do flights within the US. More competition would go a long way to making us all happier. There's a reason all these lame airlines don't want it.

and Spirit