Unrest in Milwaukee (1 Viewer)

[TheAristocrat]

I generally don't have many nice things to say about Wisconsin but Milwaukee airport's "Recombobulation Area" is fantastic.

 

[Softballguy]

I'm supposed to go to a concert tonight at Turner Hall in downtown Milwaukee. After watching that twitter video, I may need to sit this one out.

 

[parasaurolophus]

My brother in law is a captain for the MFD truck on Teutonia not far from here. Responding to actual fires takes about 5-10% of his crew's time. 90-95% is first responder services, much of which is responding to gun violence. They are often seen as the enemy in these neighborhoods for the most part, even though their main job is saving lives. They are frequently in hostile situations while trying to administer first aid, rarely have police support (they can't carry guns themselves, but are given vests), frequently shot at while administering first aid in the midst of an ongoing hostile situation. He said in almost all cases these days they have about 30-40 people standing around filming them with phone cams while they work. When the victim they are treating dies (very common), its time to wrap him up, head down, no speaking or eye contact and get to the truck asap. Its a very tough job. They sit in the firehouse, wait to hear the gunshots, then get ready for the call that's about to come in.

He does always point out that there are mostly really very good people living in these neighborhoods, respectful and thankful, trying to build a life under terrible conditions caused by the violent component of their communities.

I have probably seen your brother in law many times. We see fire trucks every day and i work about a mile from him. The two houses directly across the street from us were burned down not too long ago. 

 

[shadyridr]

A black dude got shot and that's all that matters to a lot of people. Sad.

It really is sad. A black dude with a gun gets killed by a cop and black lives matter. But same black dude kills other black dude and silence.

 

[Courtjester]

It really is sad. A black dude with a gun gets killed by a cop and black lives matter. But same black dude kills other black dude and silence.

Exactly and as I posted earlier, this is the headline in the MSM, while the officers killed in Georgia and NM is just a little blurb in the background,

 

[JB Breakfast Club]

sure are a lot of white folks in here feeling good about cops shooting people in the back...

Questions need to go much deeper. Why is Milwaukee so segregated? Why do black people fear the police to this level? What can we (white people) do to make things better? 

 

[St. Louis Bob]

the narrative has changed from cops executing unarmed black men to cops no longer being allowed to ever use their weapons on blacks regardless of the infraction or if a weapon is being carried.  hands up don't shoot has changed to career criminal, fleeing police with weapon, don't shoot.

This was an outright lie and this is what happens when a movement is founded on lies.  I posted this was wrong in the Ferguson thread about 50 times only to get replies back "but there's a problem so it's okay".   Of course the media doesn't help as they keep perpetuating the myth, despite all of the evidence, that Brown "an unarmed black kid" was just gunned down for no reason.

Meanwhile, the "peaceful" protesting keeps going on.  See,  there are people that their first instinct is to shoot at you if they feel wronged.  Shocked these stories don't make the national news.  

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

the narrative has changed from cops executing unarmed black men to cops no longer being allowed to ever use their weapons on blacks regardless of the infraction or if a weapon is being carried.  hands up don't shoot has changed to career criminal, fleeing police with weapon, don't shoot.

If they are fleeing I say don't shoot, even if armed, and even if having used deadly force earlier.  If they are fleeing using covering fire, if they turn and brandish a weapon, well then shoot and keep shooting until they stop twitching.

 

[KCitons]

sure are a lot of white folks in here feeling good about cops shooting people in the back...

Questions need to go much deeper. Why is Milwaukee so segregated? Why do black people fear the police to this level? What can we (white people) do to make things better? 

Why do they hate firefighters? 

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

sure are a lot of white folks in here feeling good about cops shooting people in the back...

Questions need to go much deeper. Why is Milwaukee so segregated? Why do black people fear the police to this level? What can we (white people) do to make things better? 

I dunno. Milwaukee hasn't elected a non-Democrat as mayor since 1908. What policies have played a role in these things happening?

 

[William Munny]

Cool country

http://www.infowars.com/video-black-lives-matter-rioters-target-whites-for-beat-downs/

 

[jurrassic]

sure are a lot of white folks in here feeling good about cops shooting people in the back...

Questions need to go much deeper. Why is Milwaukee so segregated? Why do black people fear the police to this level? What can we (white people) do to make things better? 

Pretty hard for white people to help when they are being targeted just for "being white" and being pulled and beaten from their cars.  This "protest" was positioned against law enforcement not white people.  What does a cop shooting an armed man running from an armed robbery have to do with a white woman driving her car down the street?  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu7GkPBxXhk&feature=youtu.be

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Yeah that was pretty penis-y of me. My apologies to you as well.

As I said in my PM, I was no better than the idiots who did this last night. Can't take out anger on the innocents.

 I think that the under the circumstances of what was going on in your city--it's understandable how you could have been emotionally charged or angry.   People were literally destroying their own community.   However--I do think that if you are able to--you might want to "Edit" your angry post so that none of the main FBG guys reads it and slaps a suspension your way.   

 

[JB Breakfast Club]

http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2015/03/05/390723644/why-is-milwaukee-so-bad-for-black-people?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social 

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2015/03/05/390723644/why-is-milwaukee-so-bad-for-black-people?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social 

Ok what policy from that article is most detrimental and which mayor is responsible for it?

eta - I've never been to Milwaukee or WI but it drives me crazy that people don't look at local politics the way they do federal. These things come from policies, parties, factions, and they require reforms to fix them.

 

[boots11234]

Of course the local media reported on the riot but made no mention of the "white dude beat down" going on.  Sad.  

 

[JB Breakfast Club]

Ok what policy from that article is most detrimental and which mayor is responsible for it?

the article points to 50+ years of segregation and mistreatment. I'd say the issue is in roughly this order:

- over enforcement of petty crimes and the war on drugs (grossly high rate of imprisonment, which then makes people unemployable and cycles back to more petty crimes)

- refusal to integrate schools

- refusal to integrate housing 

 

[Courtjester]

sure are a lot of white folks in here feeling good about cops shooting people in the back...

Questions need to go much deeper. Why is Milwaukee so segregated? Why do black people fear the police to this level? What can we (white people) do to make things better? 

It is simple, regardless of your race, if you are armed with a stolen gun, running from the police and then disregard the request to drop the weapon, you deserve to get shot in the front, in the head, in the back, It is an assumed risk when you go down that path.

This isn't a black/white thing---this is a criminal thing.

 

[JB Breakfast Club]

Of course the local media reported on the riot but made no mention of the "white dude beat down" going on.  Sad.  

yeah, if the press has one agenda, it's certainly to protect black people at the expense of whites. smh.

 

[JB Breakfast Club]

It is simple, regardless of your race, if you are armed with a stolen gun, running from the police and then disregard the request to drop the weapon, you deserve to get shot in the front, in the head, in the back, It is an assumed risk when you go down that path.

This isn't a black/white thing---this is a criminal thing.

sure is weird how many white people end up detained without lethal force in these situations, though.

 

[RandyDB]

sure is weird how many white people end up detained without lethal force in these situations, though.

maybe they comply with the request

 

[Courtjester]

sure is weird how many white people end up detained without lethal force in these situations, though.

Have you looked at the DOJ stats? Three times as many white people are killed each year by the police. If you extrapolate those numbers it is easy to hypothesize that 1-2 white guys were shot and killed by the police last night alone, but of course the media isn't going to cover that. There are no ratings in it.

If you want to argue that black people are disproportionately stopped and contacted by police, then I think that is a fair statement, but being shot and killed by the police is not an experience that is unique just to black people. 

 

[KCitons]

maybe they comply with the request

or it doesn't make it on the 6 o'clock news

 

[ROCKET]

Great, going to be flying into MKE on Labor Day weekend with my 15 y.o. son to see LSU/Wisconsin. We opted to skip going to Baton Rouge in favor of Lambeau but it seems this stuff is everywhere.

 

[jurrassic]

Great, going to be flying into MKE on Labor Day weekend with my 15 y.o. son to see LSU/Wisconsin. We opted to skip going to Baton Rouge in favor of Lambeau but it seems this stuff is everywhere.

You'll be nowhere near this.  The airport isn't close to this part of the city and Lambeau is 2 1/2 hours away.  

 

[Doug B]

- refusal to integrate schools

- refusal to integrate housing 

I feel safe in assuming that Milwaukee public schools are legally integrated (that is, a child cannot be refused admission from any public school based on racial identity). I'm only stating the obvious to get to another point.

De facto integration of school and of housing are related concepts. To the extent they are perceived as issues, they are virtually intractable issues IMHO. The fundamental reason being that ultimately, you can't force people to live in a given spot. Almost anyone with options will choose where they want to live and amongst whom. Forced integration of schools has happened in various parts of the country, of course, in the past. This affected long-term housing patterns in many areas, and school choice in other areas (e.g. New Orleans with a high proportion of private and parochial school enrollment).

Can forced integration of housing be done in the United States? I don't know ... doesn't look possible in the here and now. Who knows what the future may hold.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

sure are a lot of white folks in here feeling good about cops shooting people in the back...

Questions need to go much deeper. Why is Milwaukee so segregated? Why do black people fear the police to this level? What can we (white people) do to make things better? 

At the moment, stay out of Milwaukee so you don't get jumped by a bunch of black people ?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

sure are a lot of white folks in here feeling good about cops shooting people in the back...

Has it been confirmed somewhere that the guy was shot in the back while fleeing?  I've seen that mentioned a couple of times in this thread, but I don't see it on CNN et.al.  That would color my view of things if true.

 

[Willy]

Milwaukee is not like some areas of the country that refuse to spend money on public education.  I haven't seen the latest figures but last I heard we were spend something around 11-12k per pupil at MPS. 

 

[BeaverCleaver]

http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2015/03/05/390723644/why-is-milwaukee-so-bad-for-black-people?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social 

And they continue to elect Democratic mayors.

 

[Mario Kart]

sure are a lot of white folks in here feeling good about cops shooting people in the back...

Questions need to go much deeper. Why is Milwaukee so segregated? Why do black people fear the police to this level? What can we (white people) do to make things better? 

Not sure if anyone answered you but Milwaukee has always been segregated. The 50s and 60s is when the black population grew in Milwaukee but even before that time, Milwaukee was segregated by other ethnic/religious lines. Milwaukee had a huge riot in the 60s as well. Today though, we do get some of the Chicago violence.

 

[Gustavo Fring]

Cool country

http://www.infowars.com/video-black-lives-matter-rioters-target-whites-for-beat-downs/

Classy movement.  If they want war, they will most certainly get it.  

 

[parasaurolophus]

the article points to 50+ years of segregation and mistreatment. I'd say the issue is in roughly this order:

- over enforcement of petty crimes and the war on drugs (grossly high rate of imprisonment, which then makes people unemployable and cycles back to more petty crimes)

- refusal to integrate schools

- refusal to integrate housing 

This one is BS.

 

[Mario Kart]

Milwaukee is not like some areas of the country that refuse to spend money on public education.  I haven't seen the latest figures but last I heard we were spend something around 11-12k per pupil at MPS. 

MPS is so underfunded it isn't funny. Surrounding areas get more funding from their localities and the state but the Republican legislature is trying to do anything and everything to not fund MPS the way it needs.

 

[Willy]

Has it been confirmed somewhere that the guy was shot in the back while fleeing?  I've seen that mentioned a couple of times in this thread, but I don't see it on CNN et.al.  That would color my view of things if true.

From jsonline article:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/breaking/2016/08/14/calm-restored-scene-unrest-clarke-calls-national-guard/88716616/

In earlier statements, Milwaukee police said an officer shot and killed an armed man who was fleeing a traffic stop about 3:30 p.m. Saturday near W. Auer Ave. and N. 44th St. The officer ordered the man to drop his gun and when the man did not, the officer fired, wounding the man twice, once in the chest and once in the arm, Barrett said.

I haven't seen it reported that he was shot in the back, but these stories tend to change over time so who knows.

 

[Billy Bats]

It really is sad. A black dude with a gun gets killed by a cop and black lives matter. But same black dude kills other black dude and silence.

I'm impressed with their restraint, think how many riots and how much more free #### they could get if they were outraged over every black on black murder. 

 

[Billy Bats]

Cool country

http://www.infowars.com/video-black-lives-matter-rioters-target-whites-for-beat-downs/

Well wtf the rich people don't give the poor people their money. Justified riots IMO. 

 

[MaxThreshold]

the article points to 50+ years of segregation and mistreatment. I'd say the issue is in roughly this order:

- over enforcement of petty crimes and the war on drugs (grossly high rate of imprisonment, which then makes people unemployable and cycles back to more petty crimes)

- refusal to integrate schools

- refusal to integrate housing 

This city has been run by Democrats for the last 100+ years.  Are you saying their policies aren't working?  If so, I would say you are 100% correct.

 

[MaxThreshold]

MPS is so underfunded it isn't funny. Surrounding areas get more funding from their localities and the state but the Republican legislature is trying to do anything and everything to not fund MPS the way it needs.

This is  

The problem isn't funding.  The GOP legislature gave the Schools the ability to actually control their own budget via Act 10.  Not only that, prior to Act 10, we were throwing money at MPS (controlled by Democrats, btw) while the results were getting worse every year even though Milwaukee county taxes the #### out of their residents  The problem CLEARLY isn't funding and just throwing more money at it isn't going to solve the issue.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Cincinnati's 2001 riots

Police behavior and protocols were investigated, and changes were made to improve training and interaction with the community. An article in USAToday noted the following positive developments, carefully conceding "{t}he riots neither initiated the racial tension nor the police reforms, but accelerated both." [23] Some of these changes are listed below, taken directly from the article:

• Training officers to deal with low-light situations, such as the alley where Thomas was fatally shot.
  
• Training to recognize possible mental health issues in suspects and to better handle mentally ill people.
  
• Computers in officers' cruisers to give them access to a person's detailed criminal record, complete.
  
• Foot pursuit policy changed to require that officers assess whether a pursuit is appropriate, taking into consideration the seriousness of the offense, whether the suspect is armed, and police ability to apprehend at a later date.
  
• Officers are required to fill out "contact cards" when they stop vehicles. The cards include details about those in the car, including their race. Use of the cards was initiated because of allegations in a civil suit that Cincinnati officers stopped more minority drivers than whites.[23]
• The Citizens Complaint Authority was created in 2002 to do independent reviews of all serious uses of force by police officers.[23]
  
• In late 2003 the city bought updated Tasers for all officers after the death of Nathaniel Jones while in police custody. The African-American man was found to have had drugs in his system. Officers had hit him repeatedly with their batons.[23]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_riots_of_2001

- I think this is useful to the extent it demonstrates certain reforms which could prove helpful.

I think out of these the Complaint Authority sounds like the best idea.

 

[MaxThreshold]

The Milwaukee police officer who shot the criminal is reportedly black himself.  

 

[Billy Bats]

Oh, isn't this just poetic justice:  The Milwaukee police officer who shot the criminal is reportedly black himself.  

Well then this will be a shortly lived story. And now back to Trump said something stupid today. 

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The Milwaukee police officer who shot the criminal is reportedly black himself.  

Two of the Baltimore PO's including the guy driving the 'rough ride' van were black and the Holder DOJ found no racial animus in Ferguson.Did that matter? No.

 

[shadyridr]

The Milwaukee police officer who shot the criminal is reportedly black himself.  

Blacks don't consider black cops black. They consider them uncle Toms.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

When Walker and the Republicans assumed control in 2011 total per pupil spending in Wisconsin averaged $11,774, which was 18th highest in the nation at the time and $1,166 more than the national average. Recently released data from the U.S. Census Bureau now shows us that despite historic cuts to K-12 spending in Walker’s first budget, Wisconsin is still comfortably above the national average in per pupil spending.

Indeed, Wisconsin’s per pupil spending in 2013 was $11,071, which dropped the Badger State from 18th to 22nd but was still $371 above the national average. In fact, Wisconsin spent more overall on K-12 education in 2013 than four states with more overall students, Arizona, Indiana, Missouri and Tennessee.

Maybe the problem isn't the lack of spending or inadequate teachers.  Maybe the problem is the students who occupy certain schools and then who grow into the people we see in the Milwaukee riot videos.

I think another possibility is that there is bloated bureaucracy where people take in salaries and don't do much and its is very difficult to penalize or remove union employees who do not perform up to standards. So you wind up with less bang for the buck than you should have.

 

[Sconch]

 at people still thinking that more funding = more student success.

You can throw money at a crappy school all day long and it isn't going to change much.   

 

[MaxThreshold]

I think another possibility is that there is bloated bureaucracy where people take in salaries and don't do much and its is very difficult to penalize or remove union employees who do not perform up to standards. So you wind up with less bang for the buck than you should have.

Act 10 solved this issue by giving schools the ability to get rid of the useless sludge, but the problem is that you still have Democrats running the show locally and they still won't fire anyone.  Too beholden to their own power and the Unions.

 

[GroveDiesel]

If they are fleeing I say don't shoot, even if armed, and even if having used deadly force earlier.  If they are fleeing using covering fire, if they turn and brandish a weapon, well then shoot and keep shooting until they stop twitching.

Eh, if someone shoots somebody, then turns and runs from the police while they still have the weapon, I am perfectly fine with the police shooting them in the back if that's the only way to keep them from getting away. I'd rather remove that person from society completely rather than let such a dangerous person just run off and get away.

 

[otb_lifer]

 at people still thinking that more funding = more student success.

You can throw money at a crappy school all day long and it isn't going to change much.   

more money is thrown at the Newark PS system than most countries ... including a cool 100 mil from FB honcho Zuckerman a couple years ago - money is nice, and it's vital ... but success starts with the PEOPLE (staff/students/parents) making the effort to be successful

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Act 10 solved this issue by giving schools the ability to get rid of the useless sludge, but the problem is that you still have Democrats running the show and they still won't fire anyone.

This stuff frustrates me. I've never been to Mil or WI but I do know (or think) Barret has been reelected 4 times and he has a lot of black support. If people are unhappy with policy maybe try someone with a different set of policies.

Sad to say but our public school system was improved post-Katrina. Being in emergency mode broke the grip of the teachers union and an entrenched school board. Literally took an Act of God.