What if...¿[Brian Hoyer] (1 Viewer)

[Shutout]

What if Brian Hoyer puts up 244 yards, 1 Td and 2 ints this week? Does he keep Weeden on the sidelines and take control of the starting QB job in Cleveland?

The stats I picked are what Aaron Rodgers put up against the Bengals last week so the line of thinking is, as bad as that appears, is it actually an impressive sign by Hoyer if he can muster something in the same neighborhood as what Rodgers did?

Or...since Hoyer is no Aaron Rodgers, would the Browns organization accept a very pedestrain day (195 1/2)?

Are Weeden's days done barring anything short of injury or complete melt down?

 

[tdhartis]

Personally, I think Weeden is given another shot unless Hoyer continues to impress and win them games. The Brown's loyalty to their players is under question, and they did spend a 1st rounder on the kid. I believe he is given another shot when healthy, and if he under-performs they will pull him at the first chance - even if it means mid-game.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Gotta go with the younger QB. Sorry old man Weeden.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Personally, I think Weeden is given another shot unless Hoyer continues to impress and win them games. The Brown's loyalty to their players is under question, and they did spend a 1st rounder on the kid. I believe he is given another shot when healthy, and if he under-performs they will pull him at the first chance - even if it means mid-game.

this regime did not spend a first round pick on Weeden.

 

[Shutout]

Personally, I think Weeden is given another shot unless Hoyer continues to impress and win them games. The Brown's loyalty to their players is under question, and they did spend a 1st rounder on the kid. I believe he is given another shot when healthy, and if he under-performs they will pull him at the first chance - even if it means mid-game.

this regime did not spend a first round pick on Weeden.

Also, I know the use of the word "kid" is casual here but it is actually relevant in this thought process. Weeden may simply be too old for him to fit in the Borwns building/rebuilding plan. By the time they get rolling, he might be 33.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I found myself picking up Hoyer on the wire to fill a position on my bench as a backup/bye-week QB since Josh Freeman got demoted so I have taken a second look and its possible the kid might have some game. I won't overhype him but I found out some interesting tidbits concerning the home town boy who will get his first home start tomorrow.

In the history of the Cleveland Browns only two quarterbacks have thrown for 3 touchdowns in their very first game with the club.

The first? QB Otto Graham.

The second? QB Brian Hoyer.

PFF pulled a stat comparing Brian Hoyer to injured QB Brandon Weeden on the time it took each to throw after snap.

- QB Brandon Weeden ... 4.28 seconds per pass attempt

- QB Brian Hoyer .... 2.77 seconds per pass attempt

A 1.51 differnce per pass attempt which is a very significant statistic when comparing two quarterbacks operating behind the same offensive line.

And just posted a few minutes ago.

Former Browns QB Bernie Kosar's take on Brian Hoyer.

He breaks things down.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2013/09/28/bernie-kosar-says-brian-hoyer-much-more-than-just-good-enough/

Bernie Kosar Says Brian Hoyer Much More Than Just “Good Enough”

======================================================

I only picked him up for insurance but ... eh, anything is possible. He might provide some quality depth. Never know.

 

[Tool]

i think weeden's done. Hoyer's better.

 

[da_budman]

i think weeden's done. Hoyer's better.

I think Weeden is done whether Hoyer is better or not.

 

[MAC_32]

i think weeden's done. Hoyer's better.

I think Weeden is done whether Hoyer is better or not.

yep, hoyer needs to implode to let weeden back in the picture.

 

[az_prof]

I found myself picking up Hoyer on the wire to fill a position on my bench as a backup/bye-week QB since Josh Freeman got demoted so I have taken a second look and its possible the kid might have some game. I won't overhype him but I found out some interesting tidbits concerning the home town boy who will get his first home start tomorrow.

In the history of the Cleveland Browns only two quarterbacks have thrown for 3 touchdowns in their very first game with the club.

The first? QB Otto Graham.

The second? QB Brian Hoyer.

PFF pulled a stat comparing Brian Hoyer to injured QB Brandon Weeden on the time it took each to throw after snap.

- QB Brandon Weeden ... 4.28 seconds per pass attempt

- QB Brian Hoyer .... 2.77 seconds per pass attempt

A 1.51 differnce per pass attempt which is a very significant statistic when comparing two quarterbacks operating behind the same offensive line.

And just posted a few minutes ago.

Former Browns QB Bernie Kosar's take on Brian Hoyer.

He breaks things down.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2013/09/28/bernie-kosar-says-brian-hoyer-much-more-than-just-good-enough/

Bernie Kosar Says Brian Hoyer Much More Than Just “Good Enough”

======================================================

I only picked him up for insurance but ... eh, anything is possible. He might provide some quality depth. Never know.

I picked him up in dynasty due to ths Kosar interview.

 

[Ghost of Bill Walsh]

Plus,Hoyer's got Josh Gordon to throw to now, advantage......Hoyer.

 

[SportsGuru311]

Hoyer will be a good QB in this league. Learning under brady is a big help for him

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Cleveland quarterback Brian Hoyer's stat line for his second start for the Browns.

25 of 38 for 269 yards

2 touchdowns

Zero interceptions

Against the Bengals defense.

 

[FUBAR]

I dropped tom Brady two games after he took over (QBs not being worth a lot in that league, bledsoe still in town ...)

Won't make the same mistake twice. Not that he's Brady. Right?

 

[RevDawg]

I dropped tom Brady two games after he took over (QBs not being worth a lot in that league, bledsoe still in town ...)

Won't make the same mistake twice. Not that he's Brady. Right?

Oh, please let him be Brady!

 

[az_prof]

I dropped tom Brady two games after he took over (QBs not being worth a lot in that league, bledsoe still in town ...)

Won't make the same mistake twice. Not that he's Brady. Right?

Oh, please let him be Brady!

I doubt he is Brady. But Derek Anderson Plus is possible.

 

[FUBAR]

I dropped tom Brady two games after he took over (QBs not being worth a lot in that league, bledsoe still in town ...)

Won't make the same mistake twice. Not that he's Brady. Right?

Oh, please let him be Brady!

I doubt he is Brady. But Derek Anderson Plus is possible.

Why limit him to Anderson +? There have been many quarterbacks who have done well despite a lesser pedigree.

 

[MAC_32]

Weeden is DA, hoyer? Not so much.

 

[az_prof]

I dropped tom Brady two games after he took over (QBs not being worth a lot in that league, bledsoe still in town ...)

Won't make the same mistake twice. Not that he's Brady. Right?

Oh, please let him be Brady!

I doubt he is Brady. But Derek Anderson Plus is possible.

Why limit him to Anderson +? There have been many quarterbacks who have done well despite a lesser pedigree.

Hope you're right. It's just the odds... Jeff Garcia then? The odds he is Brady are more than 100-1.

 

[amnesiac]

Weeden is DA, hoyer? Not so much.

i agree. Hoyer needs work, but i like what i see so far.

they should have a pretty good idea by the end of the year what they have with him, see how he progresses with all the practice reps and playing time.

 

[amnesiac]

i noticed a few long passes were under thrown.

Hoyer may not have the arm to truly stretch the field, but he throws a nice ball and seems to understand where to go with it.

not sure who a good comp is... but seems like he can progress into a solid keep the chains moving type QB, which if you can develop a running game and have a great defense, could add up to a lot of wins if they continue to draft well.

 

[MAC_32]

He needs to be better than that if he will qb beyond this year.

 

[FUBAR]

I dropped tom Brady two games after he took over (QBs not being worth a lot in that league, bledsoe still in town ...)

Won't make the same mistake twice. Not that he's Brady. Right?

Oh, please let him be Brady!

I doubt he is Brady. But Derek Anderson Plus is possible.

Why limit him to Anderson +? There have been many quarterbacks who have done well despite a lesser pedigree.

Hope you're right. It's just the odds... Jeff Garcia then? The odds he is Brady are more than 100-1.

Cleveland should be happy if he is Garcia and he could be similar. Don't think it's a perfect comp, but few are.

 

[FUBAR]

He needs to be better than that if he will qb beyond this year.

If you watched the game, what more do you want? He should improve and the Bengals are a good/decent defense.

 

[amnesiac]

He needs to be better than that if he will qb beyond this year.

If you watched the game, what more do you want? He should improve and the Bengals are a good/decent defense.

i agree to a point. he does need to improve in a few areas. also Cincinnati is a decent defense, but the AFC North as a whole is having a down year, imo.

if Hoyer can win a few road games this year, he may have a shot at keeping the job for next year.

 

[MAC_32]

He needs to be better than that if he will qb beyond this year.

If you watched the game, what more do you want? He should improve and the Bengals are a good/decent defense.

I don't want qb purgatory. Show you're the guy. You have 12 weeks to do it. Matt Schaub, Alex Smith, Michael Vick...won't do it.

 

[FUBAR]

He needs to be better than that if he will qb beyond this year.

If you watched the game, what more do you want? He should improve and the Bengals are a good/decent defense.

I don't want qb purgatory. Show you're the guy. You have 12 weeks to do it. Matt Schaub, Alex Smith, Michael Vick...won't do it.

All three are better than anything Cleveland has since kosar.

 

[amnesiac]

if nothing else, he'd be a hell of a backup.

 

[Shutout]

Seems like he put up pretty much the exact proposed stat line I had mentioned (similar to Rodgers the week before)

If nothing else, it seems the team is behind him. The body language and the the interactions between players looks positive on the sideline shots they show. I guess it will be hardto tur. It back over to weeden at this point.

 

[amnesiac]

barring injury to Hoyer AND Campbell, Weeden is not playing for the Browns again.

 

[MAC_32]

He needs to be better than that if he will qb beyond this year.

If you watched the game, what more do you want? He should improve and the Bengals are a good/decent defense.

I don't want qb purgatory. Show you're the guy. You have 12 weeks to do it. Matt Schaub, Alex Smith, Michael Vick...won't do it.

All three are better than anything Cleveland has since kosar.

what's your point? We should settle for average?

 

[MoveToSkypager]

In my leagues, Hoyer is the 5th ranked QB since he began starting. How long can he keep this up? Is he a fantasy starter?

 

[az_prof]

In my leagues, Hoyer is the 5th ranked QB since he began starting. How long can he keep this up? Is he a fantasy starter?

I started him in one league last week over Eli. Yes, he is a fantasy starter.

 

[Shutout]

Yeah, his fantasy numbers support the argument that he should be started in leagues of 12 or more.

I think he will continue to perform as such because the Browns pretty much have to throw, they have shown that they CAN throw on some decent defenses, and they have a great WR and TE weapon who they SHOULD be throwing to so, yeah, why not?

He may not be Aaron Rodgers, but he might be a good version of Jake Delhomme (who was a very boring name that happened to be a top 10 QB when he played well on a bad team with limited receiving options).

 

[Raiderfan32904]

I started him last week as a desperation start on Rodgers bye. That move paid off in spades. Moving forward, I'm considering adding him in my Matt Ryan led league for his bye week 6, and dumping Roethlisberger. At home on 10 days rest against Detroit. Looks like a potential shootout. Hoyer already saved me from a certain defeat once. He's still on most waiver wires. I'm buying.

 

[FUBAR]

He needs to be better than that if he will qb beyond this year.

If you watched the game, what more do you want? He should improve and the Bengals are a good/decent defense.

I don't want qb purgatory. Show you're the guy. You have 12 weeks to do it. Matt Schaub, Alex Smith, Michael Vick...won't do it.

All three are better than anything Cleveland has since kosar.

what's your point? We should settle for average?

Cleveland has a very good defense. They should look at what Kansas City is doing right now as a template, except Hoyer could be better than Smith. and be happy Denver isn't in your division.

 

[FUBAR]

Yeah, his fantasy numbers support the argument that he should be started in leagues of 12 or more.

I think he will continue to perform as such because the Browns pretty much have to throw, they have shown that they CAN throw on some decent defenses, and they have a great WR and TE weapon who they SHOULD be throwing to so, yeah, why not?

He may not be Aaron Rodgers, but he might be a good version of Jake Delhomme (who was a very boring name that happened to be a top 10 QB when he played well on a bad team with limited receiving options).

My only concern with him is the lack of a running game. He'll likely have some stinkers as defenses take away gordon and cameron.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I started him last week as a desperation start on Rodgers bye. That move paid off in spades. Moving forward, I'm considering adding him in my Matt Ryan led league for his bye week 6, and dumping Roethlisberger. At home on 10 days rest against Detroit. Looks like a potential shootout. Hoyer already saved me from a certain defeat once. He's still on most waiver wires. I'm buying.

Nice

 

[Swing 51]

Is he a fantasy starter?

Not sure about every week but def this one with Buf on Thursday!

 

[MAC_32]

He needs to be better than that if he will qb beyond this year.

If you watched the game, what more do you want? He should improve and the Bengals are a good/decent defense.

I don't want qb purgatory. Show you're the guy. You have 12 weeks to do it. Matt Schaub, Alex Smith, Michael Vick...won't do it.

All three are better than anything Cleveland has since kosar.

what's your point? We should settle for average?

Cleveland has a very good defense. They should look at what Kansas City is doing right now as a template, except Hoyer could be better than Smith. and be happy Denver isn't in your division.

I think the KC model is very similar to the one being utilized in Houston and Cincy. Good enough to get to the dance, but not good enough to do anything once you get there.

If we aspire to be Houston and Cincy then we don't aspire to be a champion. I'd rather go 4-12 trying to go for the jugular than try to go 10-6 then see what happens and inevitably get the doors blown off you by a superior team.

 

[FUBAR]

He needs to be better than that if he will qb beyond this year.

If you watched the game, what more do you want? He should improve and the Bengals are a good/decent defense.

I don't want qb purgatory. Show you're the guy. You have 12 weeks to do it. Matt Schaub, Alex Smith, Michael Vick...won't do it.

All three are better than anything Cleveland has since kosar.

what's your point? We should settle for average?

Cleveland has a very good defense. They should look at what Kansas City is doing right now as a template, except Hoyer could be better than Smith. and be happy Denver isn't in your division.

I think the KC model is very similar to the one being utilized in Houston and Cincy. Good enough to get to the dance, but not good enough to do anything once you get there.

If we aspire to be Houston and Cincy then we don't aspire to be a champion. I'd rather go 4-12 trying to go for the jugular than try to go 10-6 then see what happens and inevitably get the doors blown off you by a superior team.

the last two Super Bowls were won by teams starting QBs who may not be better than Hoyer. You need a good QB, you don't necessarily need a top 5 guy.

 

[MAC_32]

He needs to be better than that if he will qb beyond this year.

If you watched the game, what more do you want? He should improve and the Bengals are a good/decent defense.

I don't want qb purgatory. Show you're the guy. You have 12 weeks to do it. Matt Schaub, Alex Smith, Michael Vick...won't do it.

All three are better than anything Cleveland has since kosar.

what's your point? We should settle for average?

Cleveland has a very good defense. They should look at what Kansas City is doing right now as a template, except Hoyer could be better than Smith. and be happy Denver isn't in your division.

I think the KC model is very similar to the one being utilized in Houston and Cincy. Good enough to get to the dance, but not good enough to do anything once you get there.

If we aspire to be Houston and Cincy then we don't aspire to be a champion. I'd rather go 4-12 trying to go for the jugular than try to go 10-6 then see what happens and inevitably get the doors blown off you by a superior team.

the last two Super Bowls were won by teams starting QBs who may not be better than Hoyer. You need a good QB, you don't necessarily need a top 5 guy.

The difference between Eli/Flacco and Schaub/Dalton/Smith is the former two are hot and cold. When they're hot they can get scorching hot, willing their team to victories. Big Ben has the same trait. When they're cold it can be absolutely unwatchable at times though.

The latter three? They're never hot. Even at their best they're just average QB's. At their worst they're pretty terrible. I think those teams are in QB purgatory. They have the pieces around the QB to win and while their QB is not so bad they have to replace him he is just good enough to keep him hanging around...until the championship window closes anyway.

I want to see if Hoyer has some Eli/Flacco in him, or if he's little different than Schaub/Dalton/Smith.

 

[Stealthycat]

no chance a healthy Weeden gets his job back then?

 

[MAC_32]

no chance a healthy Weeden gets his job back then?

If you ask him he gets it back.

 

[amnesiac]

no chance a healthy Weeden gets his job back then?

Weeden is 5-12, Hoyer is 2-0.

 

[tombonneau]

He needs to be better than that if he will qb beyond this year.

If you watched the game, what more do you want? He should improve and the Bengals are a good/decent defense.

I don't want qb purgatory. Show you're the guy. You have 12 weeks to do it. Matt Schaub, Alex Smith, Michael Vick...won't do it.

All three are better than anything Cleveland has since kosar.

what's your point? We should settle for average?

Cleveland has a very good defense. They should look at what Kansas City is doing right now as a template, except Hoyer could be better than Smith. and be happy Denver isn't in your division.

I think the KC model is very similar to the one being utilized in Houston and Cincy. Good enough to get to the dance, but not good enough to do anything once you get there.

If we aspire to be Houston and Cincy then we don't aspire to be a champion. I'd rather go 4-12 trying to go for the jugular than try to go 10-6 then see what happens and inevitably get the doors blown off you by a superior team.

the last two Super Bowls were won by teams starting QBs who may not be better than Hoyer. You need a good QB, you don't necessarily need a top 5 guy.

The difference between Eli/Flacco and Schaub/Dalton/Smith is the former two are hot and cold. When they're hot they can get scorching hot, willing their team to victories. Big Ben has the same trait. When they're cold it can be absolutely unwatchable at times though.

The latter three? They're never hot. Even at their best they're just average QB's. At their worst they're pretty terrible. I think those teams are in QB purgatory. They have the pieces around the QB to win and while their QB is not so bad they have to replace him he is just good enough to keep him hanging around...until the championship window closes anyway.

I want to see if Hoyer has some Eli/Flacco in him, or if he's little different than Schaub/Dalton/Smith.

This is a very good breakdown of these QB groupings. I honestly haven't seen enough of Hoyer to say much about him. As a Pats fan, he always looked ok in preseason. Good enough that you weren't worried if he had to come in, but not so good that I ever thought he'd be worth anything in trade.

From a FF POV, I'm looking to pick him up for a QBBC in a 14-teamer and drop Geno.

 

[FUBAR]

He needs to be better than that if he will qb beyond this year.

If you watched the game, what more do you want? He should improve and the Bengals are a good/decent defense.

I don't want qb purgatory. Show you're the guy. You have 12 weeks to do it. Matt Schaub, Alex Smith, Michael Vick...won't do it.

All three are better than anything Cleveland has since kosar.

what's your point? We should settle for average?

Cleveland has a very good defense. They should look at what Kansas City is doing right now as a template, except Hoyer could be better than Smith. and be happy Denver isn't in your division.

I think the KC model is very similar to the one being utilized in Houston and Cincy. Good enough to get to the dance, but not good enough to do anything once you get there.If we aspire to be Houston and Cincy then we don't aspire to be a champion. I'd rather go 4-12 trying to go for the jugular than try to go 10-6 then see what happens and inevitably get the doors blown off you by a superior team.

the last two Super Bowls were won by teams starting QBs who may not be better than Hoyer. You need a good QB, you don't necessarily need a top 5 guy.

The difference between Eli/Flacco and Schaub/Dalton/Smith is the former two are hot and cold. When they're hot they can get scorching hot, willing their team to victories. Big Ben has the same trait. When they're cold it can be absolutely unwatchable at times though.The latter three? They're never hot. Even at their best they're just average QB's. At their worst they're pretty terrible. I think those teams are in QB purgatory. They have the pieces around the QB to win and while their QB is not so bad they have to replace him he is just good enough to keep him hanging around...until the championship window closes anyway.

I want to see if Hoyer has some Eli/Flacco in him, or if he's little different than Schaub/Dalton/Smith.

Makes sense.

 

[msudaisy26]

I think the real question is, if Hoyer keeps this up will they draft a first round quarterback?

 

[Welshie]

Unless Hoyer bombs across multiple starts, Weeden isn't coming back.

Mike Lombardi hates everything about the way Brandon Weeden plays the position. I assume Joe Banner thinks the same way since he and Lombardi are philosophically close.

Having watched every Browns game so far, Hoyer moves far better than Weeden in the pocket, and he has a much better touch. Weeden's arm is strong, but he's way less accurate.

So I wouldn't really worry about Hoyer losing the job quickly.

Now, is he a fantasy starter?

I'll say this. Hoyer gets the ball out quick. He's several SECONDS faster than Weeden at getting rid of the ball. And, he doesn't force a lot of stupid throws. He takes what the defenses give him.

He also has some really nice weapons. Gordon's a terrific receiver, Bess is a classic possession receiver, and Cameron is a monster. He's also going to throw A LOT. 38 Atts the first start, and 54 Atts the next weren't an abberation. He's getting a minimum of 30+ throws a game. and I think that's closer to 40 most weeks.

Everything is there for him to be a successful fantasy starter the rest of the year. Even the divisional games don't look as formidable as they once did.

This week is a good bellweather for him, though. He should clean up against a banged up Buffalo secondary on a short week. If he kind of drops the ball, then reign in the optimism a little, but like I said it would take something catastrophic for this regime to go back to Weeden. They have no interest in keeping him.

 

[rabiddawgs]

Weeden 2 games
275 ty/game (31st)
56 rush/game (31st)
219 pass/game (25th)
11 sacks// 1td// 3 int

Hoyer 2 games
372.5 yds/game (11th)
96 rush/game (20th)
276.5 pass/game (9th)
6 sacks// 5 tds /// 3 int

Weeden did face miami and baltimore without Gordon

as for the running game. getting McGahee conditioned and up to speed with the off. will only help Hoyer.
to go from 31st ranked to 11th ranked for total off is a pretty decent upgrade.