Which NFL franchise is currently the most dysfunctional? (1 Viewer)

[DocHolliday]

Cleveland is running away with this as it should be. A couple of years ago, the Raiders win this poll. The Raiders are more stable than normal and are digging out of cap hell created by Al. Not sure if the Raiders have found the answers at GM and HC but at least there is some hope. There was no hope at the of the Al era.

Disclosure: Raiders are my #1 team with Cleveland as #2. Yes. It has been a long decade.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Cleveland is running away with this as it should be. A couple of years ago, the Raiders win this poll. The Raiders are more stable than normal and are digging out of cap hell created by Al. Not sure if the Raiders have found the answers at GM and HC but at least there is some hope. There was no hope at the of the Al era.

Disclosure: Raiders are my #1 team with Cleveland as #2. Yes. It has been a long decade.

There's more to dysfunction than just how lame the front office is. Relationship with the community, fanbase, quality of players, prospects for future, quality of football "experience" and more. Maybe they're not all weighted equally, but variables are many. The Browns are a mess but I'd trade the Raiders for the Browns in a flash.

The Oakland Browns. Yes please.

 

[johnadams]

Cleveland is running away with this as it should be. A couple of years ago, the Raiders win this poll. The Raiders are more stable than normal and are digging out of cap hell created by Al. Not sure if the Raiders have found the answers at GM and HC but at least there is some hope. There was no hope at the of the Al era.

Disclosure: Raiders are my #1 team with Cleveland as #2. Yes. It has been a long decade.

That's a pretty low bar for stability. I'm not convinced that having that much cap room is actually healthy. I can't see too many top line FAs overly excited to play for a team that neither contends nor gets on TV. OAK will have to overpay for the top line guys and get very creative with their contracts to exceed the cap floor while not putting themselves back into this situation in the near future. Back to back 4-12 finishes with a messy QB situation made worse by coaching decisions and a HC who seems like he's already on the hot seat doesn't scream hope to me. Maybe in the unique world of the Oakland Raiders, it's hope, but really, 2014 lines up to be a bit of a mess again. McKenzie's two drafts so far have been dreadful. Sure, more time to assess, but for now, really quite awful. And they have the toughest schedule in 2014 (in terms of winning percentage of opponents) so it's going to get pretty ugly. I don't think Allen lasts the season as HC and if McKenzie whiffs again, he may not last either. I think a case can be made that OAK has the least talented team top to bottom in the NFL right now. FA should fix that a bit, but the successful teams build through the draft and supplement with FAs. I'm not seeing much hope there right now.

 

[msudaisy26]

Cleveland is running away with this as it should be. A couple of years ago, the Raiders win this poll. The Raiders are more stable than normal and are digging out of cap hell created by Al. Not sure if the Raiders have found the answers at GM and HC but at least there is some hope. There was no hope at the of the Al era.

Disclosure: Raiders are my #1 team with Cleveland as #2. Yes. It has been a long decade.

Do you realize how many times in the last 10 years that you got to celebrate both your teams winning in one week?

2004 - 0

2005 - 1 week 11

2006 - 1 week 8

2007 - 2 week 4, 12

2008 - 0

2009 - 1 week 15

2010 - 3 week 7, 9, 13

2011 - 2 week 3, 11

2012 - 1 week 8

2013 - 1 week 5

How are you still even a football fan? I feel for ya

 

[ghostguy123]

It doesn't take winning to be a football fan. Ask every clevelander. Football is AWESOME

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Cleveland is running away with this as it should be. A couple of years ago, the Raiders win this poll. The Raiders are more stable than normal and are digging out of cap hell created by Al. Not sure if the Raiders have found the answers at GM and HC but at least there is some hope. There was no hope at the of the Al era.

Disclosure: Raiders are my #1 team with Cleveland as #2. Yes. It has been a long decade.

That's a pretty low bar for stability. I'm not convinced that having that much cap room is actually healthy. I can't see too many top line FAs overly excited to play for a team that neither contends nor gets on TV. OAK will have to overpay for the top line guys and get very creative with their contracts to exceed the cap floor while not putting themselves back into this situation in the near future. Back to back 4-12 finishes with a messy QB situation made worse by coaching decisions and a HC who seems like he's already on the hot seat doesn't scream hope to me. Maybe in the unique world of the Oakland Raiders, it's hope, but really, 2014 lines up to be a bit of a mess again. McKenzie's two drafts so far have been dreadful. Sure, more time to assess, but for now, really quite awful. And they have the toughest schedule in 2014 (in terms of winning percentage of opponents) so it's going to get pretty ugly. I don't think Allen lasts the season as HC and if McKenzie whiffs again, he may not last either. I think a case can be made that OAK has the least talented team top to bottom in the NFL right now. FA should fix that a bit, but the successful teams build through the draft and supplement with FAs. I'm not seeing much hope there right now.

I agree with almost everything you say here. No doubt the Raiders arguably have the least amount of talent in the league (looking at you Jacksonville). DA might get canned and take Reggie with him if they have another 4-12 season. And no the strength of schedule isn't an alibi.

But I really don't see how $63 million in cap space is a bad thing. Is there an opposite scenario that's good? They will sign their own free agents and reward selectively some of the one year contracts from last year as well as bring in a couple or three prize free agents. There really is nowhere to go from here but up.

The one thing I disagree with you is your first sentence saying that the current Raider regime is a "pretty low bar for stability". It's now into heading it's third year since Hue Jackson's exile after Al Davis' death. The current management is lockstep and stable, for better or for worse. They are the model of stability, at least compared to clown car franchise like Cleveland.

 

[SugarNuts]

Currently - Cleveland by a mile.

Past 10-15 years, easily the Bills. Only team to not go to the playoffs in the 2000s. Unreal...

 

[MAC_32]

Still Miami in a landslide.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Still Miami in a landslide.

said the Cleveland Browns fan

 

[Raiderfan32904]

I just changed my vote from the Dolphins to the clown car franchise. I voted too soon.

 

[johnadams]

Cleveland is running away with this as it should be. A couple of years ago, the Raiders win this poll. The Raiders are more stable than normal and are digging out of cap hell created by Al. Not sure if the Raiders have found the answers at GM and HC but at least there is some hope. There was no hope at the of the Al era.

Disclosure: Raiders are my #1 team with Cleveland as #2. Yes. It has been a long decade.

That's a pretty low bar for stability. I'm not convinced that having that much cap room is actually healthy. I can't see too many top line FAs overly excited to play for a team that neither contends nor gets on TV. OAK will have to overpay for the top line guys and get very creative with their contracts to exceed the cap floor while not putting themselves back into this situation in the near future. Back to back 4-12 finishes with a messy QB situation made worse by coaching decisions and a HC who seems like he's already on the hot seat doesn't scream hope to me. Maybe in the unique world of the Oakland Raiders, it's hope, but really, 2014 lines up to be a bit of a mess again. McKenzie's two drafts so far have been dreadful. Sure, more time to assess, but for now, really quite awful. And they have the toughest schedule in 2014 (in terms of winning percentage of opponents) so it's going to get pretty ugly. I don't think Allen lasts the season as HC and if McKenzie whiffs again, he may not last either. I think a case can be made that OAK has the least talented team top to bottom in the NFL right now. FA should fix that a bit, but the successful teams build through the draft and supplement with FAs. I'm not seeing much hope there right now.

I agree with almost everything you say here. No doubt the Raiders arguably have the least amount of talent in the league (looking at you Jacksonville). DA might get canned and take Reggie with him if they have another 4-12 season. And no the strength of schedule isn't an alibi.

But I really don't see how $63 million in cap space is a bad thing. Is there an opposite scenario that's good? They will sign their own free agents and reward selectively some of the one year contracts from last year as well as bring in a couple or three prize free agents. There really is nowhere to go from here but up.

The one thing I disagree with you is your first sentence saying that the current Raider regime is a "pretty low bar for stability". It's now into heading it's third year since Hue Jackson's exile after Al Davis' death. The current management is lockstep and stable, for better or for worse. They are the model of stability, at least compared to clown car franchise like Cleveland.

I'm not saying that it's a bad thing. I'm saying that it's not a sign of health and not the panacea some may think. It's certainly better to be way under than way over, but I'd guess (and it's not much more than that) that most teams would prefer not to be in a position where they HAVE to spend so much as it creates some issues in following years. Also, toward the end of Al's reign, the organization was far from stable, which is the bar I mentioned, point being that the current group doesn't need to do much to be more stable than the last.

Just clarifying. And CLE's recent antics have swayed me. They're nuts. Mark Davis hasn't done enough one way or the other to have the kind of track record, though his handling of the coaching situation over the last few months has not been very clean. Also, I was pretty enthused when they hired McKenzie as were a lot of others so that can be a right decision/wrong result or even McKenzie needing some time. Though I'm not letting the Raiders off the hook yet.

 

[MAC_32]

Still Miami in a landslide.

said the Cleveland Browns fan

Browns homer's call me too negative.

Everyone else calls me a homer.

Can't win.

 

[DocHolliday]

Cleveland is running away with this as it should be. A couple of years ago, the Raiders win this poll. The Raiders are more stable than normal and are digging out of cap hell created by Al. Not sure if the Raiders have found the answers at GM and HC but at least there is some hope. There was no hope at the of the Al era.

Disclosure: Raiders are my #1 team with Cleveland as #2. Yes. It has been a long decade.

That's a pretty low bar for stability. I'm not convinced that having that much cap room is actually healthy. I can't see too many top line FAs overly excited to play for a team that neither contends nor gets on TV. OAK will have to overpay for the top line guys and get very creative with their contracts to exceed the cap floor while not putting themselves back into this situation in the near future. Back to back 4-12 finishes with a messy QB situation made worse by coaching decisions and a HC who seems like he's already on the hot seat doesn't scream hope to me. Maybe in the unique world of the Oakland Raiders, it's hope, but really, 2014 lines up to be a bit of a mess again. McKenzie's two drafts so far have been dreadful. Sure, more time to assess, but for now, really quite awful. And they have the toughest schedule in 2014 (in terms of winning percentage of opponents) so it's going to get pretty ugly. I don't think Allen lasts the season as HC and if McKenzie whiffs again, he may not last either. I think a case can be made that OAK has the least talented team top to bottom in the NFL right now. FA should fix that a bit, but the successful teams build through the draft and supplement with FAs. I'm not seeing much hope there right now.

I agree with almost everything you say here. No doubt the Raiders arguably have the least amount of talent in the league (looking at you Jacksonville). DA might get canned and take Reggie with him if they have another 4-12 season. And no the strength of schedule isn't an alibi.

But I really don't see how $63 million in cap space is a bad thing. Is there an opposite scenario that's good? They will sign their own free agents and reward selectively some of the one year contracts from last year as well as bring in a couple or three prize free agents. There really is nowhere to go from here but up.

The one thing I disagree with you is your first sentence saying that the current Raider regime is a "pretty low bar for stability". It's now into heading it's third year since Hue Jackson's exile after Al Davis' death. The current management is lockstep and stable, for better or for worse. They are the model of stability, at least compared to clown car franchise like Cleveland.

I'm not saying that it's a bad thing. I'm saying that it's not a sign of health and not the panacea some may think. It's certainly better to be way under than way over, but I'd guess (and it's not much more than that) that most teams would prefer not to be in a position where they HAVE to spend so much as it creates some issues in following years. Also, toward the end of Al's reign, the organization was far from stable, which is the bar I mentioned, point being that the current group doesn't need to do much to be more stable than the last.

Just clarifying. And CLE's recent antics have swayed me. They're nuts. Mark Davis hasn't done enough one way or the other to have the kind of track record, though his handling of the coaching situation over the last few months has not been very clean. Also, I was pretty enthused when they hired McKenzie as were a lot of others so that can be a right decision/wrong result or even McKenzie needing some time. Though I'm not letting the Raiders off the hook yet.

The Raiders are not out of the woods by any stretch. I agree with the other poster's statement that the Raiders were one of the least talented team in 2013. Their talent level was pitiful. I do not know how they won 4 games.

Having cap space is most definitely a good thing for a team that is rebuilding. The 2013 Raiders and their $50M of dead money are proof that having no cap space is crushing for a team that needs to rebuild. Make no bones about it. The Raiders are like an expansion team now. The Raiders are finally rebuiding in 2014 after destroying themselves for the last 10 years.

I was not a big fan of the Allen hiring but the Raiders are not going to get the best HC in their current state. Good coaches were not even thinking about going to Oakland. Allen has done a fair job considering what he is working with. McKenzie has disappointed me. He handled the cap space issue very well which is likely why he is still employed. His drafting has been awful. McKenzie will be fired for sure at the end of 2014 if he does not have a serious bunch of talent on the field.

Msudaisy,

Thank you for reminding me just how painful the last decade has been for me. Fortunately, the NFL is just entertainment for me. I do not consider myself a diehard fan. It is also easy to be more of a fantasy football fan than a Raider/Browns fan when your teams suck. I have no problem rooting for my FF players over the Raiders. And, after all these losing seasons, I do not even expect my teams to win.

 

[jumper]

Cleveland is most dysfunctional; Detroit is most inept.

 

[ghostguy123]

Still Miami in a landslide.

what planet you been on?

 

[MAC_32]

Still Miami in a landslide.

what planet you been on?

the one that has Miami spinning towards salary cap hell and a new regime after this coming season.

 

[fantasycurse42]

182 people want to change their vote?

 

[ghostguy123]

Still Miami in a landslide.

what planet you been on?

the one that has Miami spinning towards salary cap hell and a new regime after this coming season.

A new regime eh? I think we can one up them yet again next year after we go 2-14.

Not to mention how great can our cap situation be when we may not be able to keep our own guys.

 

[MAC_32]

Still Miami in a landslide.

what planet you been on?

the one that has Miami spinning towards salary cap hell and a new regime after this coming season.

A new regime eh? I think we can one up them yet again next year after we go 2-14.

well, at least all that unwanted attention I've gotten for being negative is going to shift to someone else! I may steal it back if they butcher this draft, but for at least a few months I'll be in good standing.I think Oakland will be in a bad spot next year too, but I understand why the finger can't be pointed at them right now. I think the guys they have in place are going to screw this up. Bad.

 

[ghostguy123]

well, at least all that unwanted attention I've gotten for being negative is going to shift to someone else! I may steal it back if they butcher this draft, but for at least a few months I'll be in good standing.I think Oakland will be in a bad spot next year too, but I understand why the finger can't be pointed at them right now. I think the guys they have in place are going to screw this up. Bad.

This issue is just a LITTLE deeper than players on the roster and salary cap situation.

And while I think without a shadow of a doubt that we are the most dysfunctional organization, I still feel that with the players we have in place that a good QB will make us quite relevant. I just wish I loved one of these QBs. And yes, we have a decent cap situation and a nice assortment of picks. The best assortment of picks in the league actually. Then again, we had the best picks two years ago also, and royally screwed it up with Richardson and Weeden.

But like you, I am more realistic than optomistic . We are a train wreck.

 

[MAC_32]

Can't kill these guys for another regimes mistakes. Similar story with mangini. Just because those guys screwed up doesn't mean these guys will. I lost faith in both of those regimes after their key drafts, they bombed them, and it was obvious draft day. Maybe these guys will too. Going to hold off on the panic button until may though.

 

[ghostguy123]

Don't get me wrong I am happy with the recent moves, and I would never put blame on Haslem for anything the previous ownership did...........................but we have had 3 coaches and GMs in about the time it takes an egg to boil.

But I definitely think we are at a competitive disadvantage due to the perception of how ridiculous this place has been for a while now. If free agent X has a choice to play here for 5 million or elsewhere for 5 million, we lose out on that. It really hurts for attracting free agents and also keeping our own players, not to mention attracting coaches and front office guys.

We basically need something lucky, some QB to overachieve by a lot and make us look more attractive.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

I think Oakland will be in a bad spot next year too, but I understand why the finger can't be pointed at them right now. I think the guys they have in place are going to screw this up. Bad.

If it makes you feel any better, maybe we can walk around the mall together some day with "I'm with stupid" tee shirts pointing at each other.

 

[DocHolliday]

Don't get me wrong I am happy with the recent moves, and I would never put blame on Haslem for anything the previous ownership did...........................but we have had 3 coaches and GMs in about the time it takes an egg to boil.

But I definitely think we are at a competitive disadvantage due to the perception of how ridiculous this place has been for a while now. If free agent X has a choice to play here for 5 million or elsewhere for 5 million, we lose out on that. It really hurts for attracting free agents and also keeping our own players, not to mention attracting coaches and front office guys.

We basically need something lucky, some QB to overachieve by a lot and make us look more attractive.

You can use your free agent example for a bunch of teams. It is not like Oakland is on most players wish list either.

Cleveland definitely has way more talent on their roster than Oakland. Oakland should be on the way up. IMcKenzie has no excuses now though to drastically impove the talent level in Oakland. He has plenty of draft picks and money. I am not a fan of spending it wildly, but he must fill some key roles like QB and both lines.

 

[msudaisy26]

I think Oakland will be in a bad spot next year too, but I understand why the finger can't be pointed at them right now. I think the guys they have in place are going to screw this up. Bad.

If it makes you feel any better, maybe we can walk around the mall together some day with "I'm with stupid" tee shirts pointing at each other.

I would watch a video of that!

 

[FatmanLittleboy]

For what it's worth, three years ago, the answer to this question probably would have been Denver. They had just fired Josh McDaniels over another videotaping scandal, and had gone 6-20 in their last 26 games after opening the previous season 6-0. McDaniels had turned the franchise into a joke. He cut a perfectly serviceable long-snapper and signed the former Patriots' long-snapper to the richest contract ever given a long-snapper. He traded a future first to draft a player in the second, then traded that player away the very next season for a 7th. He spent another 2nd rounder on a blocking TE. He traded up to draft Tim Tebow, then glued him to the bench, leaving behind a Tebow/Orton QB controversy. To rebuild the team, Denver hired a former player with absolutely no further NFL experience and the only coach in the league to post a worse record than the Broncos. They were clearly the most dysfunctional franchise in the league. Things are capable of turning around in a hurry in the NFL...

Which is why the Lions are so frustrating. The Lions have been "a team on the rise" for the last couple decades (or so it feels), yet can't win. The franchise has been an individual player highlight reel but seem to never get a decent supporting cast. Even when they do have a good team, they blow it.

Quote-"Even when they do have a good team they blow it." I had to laugh. My buddy is a Lions fan and it was painful to watch all that talent result in all those losses last year.

 

[Sinrman]

As a Lions fan, it was very hard NOT to pick us. But I went with the Browns, currently. The Jets seem to be weathering the storm. The Cowboys are a bit of a mess, as usual, but at least they are consistently close to being a playoff contending team each year. The Jags are... well, the Jags. A mess. Fans don't care. I went to a Lions/Jags game 2 years ago and when we went up three scores in the 2nd quarter, fans were already leaving. Really!? This is the Lions! We can easily blow it (though we didn't that day)! Raiders are also a mess, but I'm not sure they are the worst mess.

 

[MAC_32]

So the dolphins just fired their head trainer...who was voted nfl trainer of the year by fellow trainers and Med staff's, award to be presented Friday.

 

[MAC_32]

Lol, after they flew him to Indy...

 

[MAC_32]

Hahahaha, they interrupted the athletic trainers meeting to summon the guy to get fired.

What a joke.

 

[JaxBill]

As a Lions fan, it was very hard NOT to pick us. But I went with the Browns, currently. The Jets seem to be weathering the storm. The Cowboys are a bit of a mess, as usual, but at least they are consistently close to being a playoff contending team each year. The Jags are... well, the Jags. A mess. Fans don't care. I went to a Lions/Jags game 2 years ago and when we went up three scores in the 2nd quarter, fans were already leaving. Really!? This is the Lions! We can easily blow it (though we didn't that day)! Raiders are also a mess, but I'm not sure they are the worst mess.

So the Jags are the most dysfunctional because people gave up on a 1-6 soon to be 1-7 Mike Mularkey team.

HOW DARE PEOPLE GIVE UP ON BLAINE GABBERT!

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012110402/2012/REG9/lions@jaguars#menu=highlights&tab=recap

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Michael Lombardi joins Patriots as assistant to the coaching staff The New England Patriots have announced the following addition the coaching staff on Thursday, February 20, 2014.FOXBOROUGH, Mass. – The New England Patriots announced today the addition of Michael Lombardi as an assistant to the coaching staff. Lombardi brings 23 years of NFL experience as a front office executive, most recently serving as general manager for the Cleveland Browns in 2013.

Lombardi joined the NFL personnel ranks in 1984, spending three seasons (1984-86) in the personnel department of the San Francisco 49ers. He then spent nine seasons (1987-95) with the Cleveland Browns as a scout, pro personnel director and director of player personnel. Lombardi then spent two seasons with the Philadelphia Eagles (1997-98) in the personnel department before joining the Oakland Raiders for eight seasons (1999-2007) in the player personnel department.

Outside of the front office, Lombardi has held multiple positions as a collegiate coach, analyst, reporter and writer throughout his career, including time as analyst with NFL network and NFL.com.

Lombardi was a three-year letterman (1979-81) as a defensive lineman at Hofstra University.

http://www.patriots.com/news/article-1/Michael-Lombardi-joins-Patriots-as-assistant-to-the-coaching-staff/dd44945a-29ce-41bc-bf10-37d59ba0f0fd

I realize Browns fans are really close to this situation, but I did not think that Banner and Lombardi were doing all that badly. I liked what they were doing, personally.

Here's BB and the Pats who just go ahead and snap Lombardi right up.

From the most dysfunctional franchise (especially after he left) to the most highly functioning franchise, Lombardi has landed well, and I seriously doubt BB and the Pats hire incompetents.

 

[MAC_32]

Banner was the primary problem, they came in a package deal so if banner went then so did Lombardi. Haslem wasn't happy with Lombardi being spurned by mcdaniels and the miscommunication between the coaching staff and the front office.

 

[Faust]

Cleveland Browns-Jim Harbaugh bombshell telling for both sides

 

[Tackling Dummies]

Wanna bet the Harbaugh to CLE was after the hire of Pettine?

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Cleveland is most dysfunctional; Detroit is most inept.

Can't wait till I get to Vegas and find out what odds a Browns/Lions Super Bowl is going at.

 

[Faust]

Did Browns show their FA board during presser? (Browns say no)

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Did Browns show their FA board during presser? (Browns say no)

Amateur hour.

 

[Donnybrook]

I will laugh out loud if the Browns end up signing Grossman.

 

[MAC_32]

I will laugh out loud if the Browns end up signing Grossman.

probably will, but he will be qb3 on the depth chart by October if he is on it at all.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Some kind of Honorable Mention has to go to the Phins, Bills and Jets.

New England has won the AFC East every year:

• from 2003-13 except one
• from 2001-13 except two 2nd place finishes

They have either made the playoffs or won the division every year since 1994, except for four seasons.

And now they sign Revis and it's looking like another Pats year.

Bills, Dolphins, Jets - what in the hell is going on?

 

[LBH]

Some kind of Honorable Mention has to go to the Phins, Bills and Jets.

New England has won the AFC East every year:

• from 2003-13 except one
• from 2001-13 except two 2nd place finishes

They have either made the playoffs or won the division every year since 1994, except for four seasons.And now they sign Revis and it's looking like another Pats year.

Bills, Dolphins, Jets - what in the hell is going on?

I think when you look at the QB situations of those three teams over that time frame vs. Tom Brady it's easy to see why the Pats have been dominant.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Is this appropriate here?

@RapSheet: Unreal RT @BairCSN: #Raiders announce that Rodger Saffold failed a physical and will not be signing with the team.

 

[MAC_32]

I think Oakland will be in a bad spot next year too, but I understand why the finger can't be pointed at them right now. I think the guys they have in place are going to screw this up. Bad.

If it makes you feel any better, maybe we can walk around the mall together some day with "I'm with stupid" tee shirts pointing at each other.

good news, maybe it won't wait until next year, McKenzie should be canned tomorrow.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Raiders winning the disfunctionality debate over last few days, that's for sure. Cleveland looks savvy even.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

The overall perception of the most disfunctional franchise seems to change daily.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Raiders after yesterday

 

[RBM]

Raiders are just the disaster of all disasters. Tuck and Woodley on an awful team? Holy crap.

With all the cap room to burn, they're not going to come out of this with one good, young player. That's just astounding.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Raiders are just the disaster of all disasters. Tuck and Woodley on an awful team? Holy crap.

With all the cap room to burn, they're not going to come out of this with one good, young player. That's just astounding.

I don't think anybody wants to go there except for twilighters.

 

[Gargoylez]

Buccaneers are heading to the top of this list at a record pace.