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Who is the #12 best basketball player of all-time? (1 Viewer)

Who is #12?

  • Stephen Curry

    Votes: 24 40.7%
  • Oscar Robertson

    Votes: 29 49.2%
  • Moses Malone

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Kevin Durant

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Karl Malone

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Kevin Garnett

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Jerry West

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • Julius Erving

    Votes: 3 5.1%
  • David Robinson

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • Other (please list)

    Votes: 1 1.7%

  • Total voters
    59

Frostillicus

Footballguy
1. Michael Jordan (71%)
2. Lebron james (85%).
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (34%).
4. Wilt Chamberlain (31%).
5. Magic Johnson (33%).
6. Larry Bird (44%).
7. Bill Russell (67%).
8. Shaquille O'Neal (31%)
9. Tim Duncan (53%).
10. Hakeem Olajuwon (36%).
11. Kobe Bryant (37%)
12. ???????????? (first to 25 votes wins)
 
My case against Oscar Robertson...

1. He won exactly 1 ring, and he was clearly the 2nd best player on that team.
2. He had only 1 MVP award.
3. He played in the early diluted years of basketball. His first 6 years, there weren't even 10 teams in the league, then the rest of his career, the ABA pulled talent away from the NBA. With that weak of a talent pool, he still couldn't manage a ring without Kareem and only got 1 MVP?
4. Despite being a much larger guard than his opponents, he isn't known for any kind of defensive accolades. Estimations are he was an average defender despite having a great physical advantage.

My case for Steph Curry...

1. He won 2 MVP's in LeBron's era.
2. 4 rings. Two as the clear cut #1 (only 1 Finals MVP), two as the 1B to Durant. Also in LeBron's era.
3. As has been mentioned ad nauseum in these threads, he changed the game of basketball to a shooter's league.
4. He is BY FAR the most efficient scoring guard of all time and does so on VERY high volume. He is #14 all-time in EFG% and #6 in TS%. Nearly everyone above and immediately below him on those lists are post players.

Oscar's triple double season lost some of its mystique for me after Westbrook did it 4 times without playing winning basketball. If we don't have Westbrook anywhere near this high, why not? He did it in a much more competitive league than Oscar did. I love to respect the original guys who did it first, but Oscar's lifetime achievements just aren't as impressive as Curry's.
 
My case against Oscar Robertson...

1. He won exactly 1 ring, and he was clearly the 2nd best player on that team.
2. He had only 1 MVP award.
3. He played in the early diluted years of basketball. His first 6 years, there weren't even 10 teams in the league, then the rest of his career, the ABA pulled talent away from the NBA. With that weak of a talent pool, he still couldn't manage a ring without Kareem and only got 1 MVP?
4. Despite being a much larger guard than his opponents, he isn't known for any kind of defensive accolades. Estimations are he was an average defender despite having a great physical advantage.

My case for Steph Curry...

1. He won 2 MVP's in LeBron's era.
2. 4 rings. Two as the clear cut #1 (only 1 Finals MVP), two as the 1B to Durant. Also in LeBron's era.
3. As has been mentioned ad nauseum in these threads, he changed the game of basketball to a shooter's league.
4. He is BY FAR the most efficient scoring guard of all time and does so on VERY high volume. He is #14 all-time in EFG% and #6 in TS%. Nearly everyone above and immediately below him on those lists are post players.

Oscar's triple double season lost some of its mystique for me after Westbrook did it 4 times without playing winning basketball. If we don't have Westbrook anywhere near this high, why not? He did it in a much more competitive league than Oscar did. I love to respect the original guys who did it first, but Oscar's lifetime achievements just aren't as impressive as Curry's.
There weren’t that many teams, but Big O was up against the peak of Russell and Chamberlain, and Celtics were one of the more dominant franchises in any sport, ever. E.g., Big O led the Cincinnati Royals to Game 7 against the Boston Celtics in the Eastern Conference finals in 1962-63 season. Game 7 box score here. Robertson scored 43 points — his supporting cast was, uh, Jack Twyman, Wayne Embry, and Adrian Smith. The Celtics had a team of HOFers led by Russell, Cousy, Havlicek, Sam Jones, K.C. Jones.
 
My case against Oscar Robertson...

1. He won exactly 1 ring, and he was clearly the 2nd best player on that team.
2. He had only 1 MVP award.
3. He played in the early diluted years of basketball. His first 6 years, there weren't even 10 teams in the league, then the rest of his career, the ABA pulled talent away from the NBA. With that weak of a talent pool, he still couldn't manage a ring without Kareem and only got 1 MVP?
4. Despite being a much larger guard than his opponents, he isn't known for any kind of defensive accolades. Estimations are he was an average defender despite having a great physical advantage.

My case for Steph Curry...

1. He won 2 MVP's in LeBron's era.
2. 4 rings. Two as the clear cut #1 (only 1 Finals MVP), two as the 1B to Durant. Also in LeBron's era.
3. As has been mentioned ad nauseum in these threads, he changed the game of basketball to a shooter's league.
4. He is BY FAR the most efficient scoring guard of all time and does so on VERY high volume. He is #14 all-time in EFG% and #6 in TS%. Nearly everyone above and immediately below him on those lists are post players.

Oscar's triple double season lost some of its mystique for me after Westbrook did it 4 times without playing winning basketball. If we don't have Westbrook anywhere near this high, why not? He did it in a much more competitive league than Oscar did. I love to respect the original guys who did it first, but Oscar's lifetime achievements just aren't as impressive as Curry's.
There weren’t that many teams, but Big O was up against the peak of Russell and Chamberlain, and Celtics were one of the more dominant franchises in any sport, ever. E.g., Big O led the Cincinnati Royals to Game 7 against the Boston Celtics in the Eastern Conference finals in 1962-63 season. Game 7 box score here. Robertson scored 43 points — his supporting cast was, uh, Jack Twyman, Wayne Embry, and Adrian Smith. The Celtics had a team of HOFers led by Russell, Cousy, Havlicek, Sam Jones, K.C. Jones.
Warriors lost in 2016 after being up 3-1 because Draymond lost his cool. Curry shot 40% from 3 for the series averaging 23/5/4.

Warriors lost in 6 games in 2019 to the Raptors because Durant and Klay both got hurt. Curry averaged 31/5/6 for the series.

Curry could have had 6 rings by now.

To be honest, I would have had these two flipped, but the Golden State championship run in 2022 was a masterful performance by Curry throughout the playoffs. He was un-guardable in the Finals and that performance alone was greater than anything Oscar ever did.
 
There weren’t that many teams, but Big O was up against the peak of Russell and Chamberlain, and Celtics were one of the more dominant franchises in any sport, ever. E.g., Big O led the Cincinnati Royals to Game 7 against the Boston Celtics in the Eastern Conference finals in 1962-63 season. Game 7 box score here. Robertson scored 43 points — his supporting cast was, uh, Jack Twyman, Wayne Embry, and Adrian Smith. The Celtics had a team of HOFers led by Russell, Cousy, Havlicek, Sam Jones, K.C. Jones.
This is why I've never liked rings arguments. Those Cincinnati teams had no chance against the Celtics, and it wasn't Oscar's fault. In that Game 7 he scores 43 points and makes 21 of 22 free throws, but his team gets outrebounded 61-43 because they have nobody who can match up with Russell.

There was no salary cap to break up the Celtics, no free agency to let Oscar find a better spot or recruit other players to join him. It's not reasonable to expect anyone to win titles in his situation.
 

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