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Who should pay? Dog bitten at boarding. (1 Viewer)

Who should pay for my dog's vet bill?

  • I should pay

    Votes: 10 27.0%

  • Boarding place should pay

    Votes: 10 27.0%

  • Other owner should pay

    Votes: 15 40.5%

  • Smoo

    Votes: 2 5.4%
  • Total voters
    37
scorchy

scorchy

Footballguy
When on vacation, we usually leave my dog (Buck, a german shorthaired pointer) at a boarding place that doubles as a dog day care -- that way, he gets to be out during the day before being boarded at night.  My wife and I really like the place, and the dog seems to as well (at least, he appeared to be having fun on the few occasions that my son has asked us to check in on him via the camera app offered by the place).  On the second day away for spring break, we got a call from the owner that Buck had been bitten on the ear by another dog and they had taken him to our vet.  Buck was OK, didn't need stitches, and the other dog had been booted because it was his second offense.  Obviously, we were happy our dog was OK and also relieved that Buck wasn't the aggressor (especially since we were 6000 miles away and not sure what we would have done had he been kicked out).   When we went to him up, the owner was super-apologetic, but still handed us a $120 vet bill on top of the $500 for boarding.  I paid without saying anything because (a) I wasn't sure if this was typical practice, (b) we really like the place, and (c) it was only $120.  Now, after talking to a few friends, they seem to think maybe I should have questioned this.  For the record, this is more a question for my own curiosity than anything else -- I'm not annoyed at the place and still plan on taking my dog when we go away this summer.  I do wonder whether I would feel the same way if Buck had needed stitches and the bill was closer to $300 - $400 instead.  

Also, I'm looking for more of an "ethical" answer than legal one.  My wife did take a look at the boarding agreement and two of the three options seem applicable.  Thoughts?

 
First reaction is that it should be a claim for the boarding place and their insurance.

All of the options would be understandable if they were included in the agreement, I would certainly defer to that.

 
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depends on what the agreement you signed states. Is this situation covered?

not sure what you mean by " My wife did take a look at the boarding agreement and two of the three options seem applicable."

 
We had a dog die at a boarding place and had to pay $1000 to the emergency vets who tried to save him. We had no case against them because the necropsy was inconclusive as to cause of death. But in the case of a dog bite, seems like fault is clearly with either the business or the other dog's owner. I wouldn't pay a dime.

BTW, we only use Rover now. I wouldn't leave our dog in a kennel for even one night.

 
McGarnicle said:
We had a dog die at a boarding place and had to pay $1000 to the emergency vets who tried to save him. We had no case against them because the necropsy was inconclusive as to cause of death. But in the case of a dog bite, seems like fault is clearly with either the business or the other dog's owner. I wouldn't pay a dime.

BTW, we only use Rover now. I wouldn't leave our dog in a kennel for even one night.
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JFC what happened?

 
Here's why I say two of the options seem applicable (from the boarding agreement):

[SIZE=11pt]1. I understand that I am solely responsible for any harm caused by my dog(s) while my dog(s) is/are attending XXXXX Daycare, Inc.[/SIZE]

2.  [SIZE=11pt]I further understand and agree that XXXXX Daycare, Inc.’s Dog Daycare is a cage-free facility and my dog(s) will play in open areas with other dog(s). I accept the inherent risks involved and agree that XXXXX and their staff will not be liable for any problems which develop, provided reasonable care and precautions are followed, and I hereby release them of any liability of any kind whatsoever arising from my dog(s) attendance and participation at XXXXX, Inc.’s Dog Day care.[/SIZE]

Obviously, this rules out option 2 (which is why I said I was looking at this more "ethically" rather than "legally").  OTOH, just from a business standpoint, if I were the owner, I may have eaten a $120 vet bill without even asking for a customer that spends more than $1K a year on boarding.

 
JoeSteeler said:
JFC what happened?
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They said he was lethargic and wasn't eating, then lost consciousness. The ER vet said it seemed like he was poisoned. The necropsy vet had no idea. ####### awful experience. The dog was less than a year old. I asked to see where they boarded him and they took me back there, absolutely disgusting. Steel cages stacked 3 high, unbearable stench. And this is a highly rated place in an affluent area north of Atlanta where rich ladies bring their little pocket dogs. Our dog will never spend 5 minutes in one of those places.

 
scorchy said:
Here's why I say two of the options seem applicable (from the boarding agreement):

[SIZE=11pt]1. I understand that I am solely responsible for any harm caused by my dog(s) while my dog(s) is/are attending XXXXX Daycare, Inc.[/SIZE]

2.  [SIZE=11pt]I further understand and agree that XXXXX Daycare, Inc.’s Dog Daycare is a cage-free facility and my dog(s) will play in open areas with other dog(s). I accept the inherent risks involved and agree that XXXXX and their staff will not be liable for any problems which develop, provided reasonable care and precautions are followed, and I hereby release them of any liability of any kind whatsoever arising from my dog(s) attendance and participation at XXXXX, Inc.’s Dog Day care.[/SIZE]

Obviously, this rules out option 2 (which is why I said I was looking at this more "ethically" rather than "legally").  OTOH, just from a business standpoint, if I were the owner, I may have eaten a $120 vet bill without even asking for a customer that spends more than $1K a year on boarding.
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That seems like a bad precedent to set for the owner. What if next time the bill was $500 or $1000? 

I have boarded my dogs 5-6 times and if it is a place where dogs have physical contact it is just a risk you take. There are places out there where the dogs never have physical contact with other dogs.

 
McGarnicle said:
They said he was lethargic and wasn't eating, then lost consciousness. The ER vet said it seemed like he was poisoned. The necropsy vet had no idea. ####### awful experience. The dog was less than a year old. I asked to see where they boarded him and they took me back there, absolutely disgusting. Steel cages stacked 3 high, unbearable stench. And this is a highly rated place in an affluent area north of Atlanta where rich ladies bring their little pocket dogs. Our dog will never spend 5 minutes in one of those places.
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wow sorry to hear that.Terrible. I couldn't imagine going through that and with such a young pup.

 
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JoeSteeler said:
That seems like a bad precedent to set for the owner. What if next time the bill was $500 or $1000? 

I have boarded my dogs 5-6 times and if it is a place where dogs have physical contact it is just a risk you take. There are places out there where the dogs never have physical contact with other dogs.
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Agreed, although it the bill was that high, I wonder if they would have invoked the first clause and tried to get the other owner to pay.  I also get the risk, which is why I just went ahead and paid it.  The fact that he gets to interact with other dogs in a daycare type environment is why we send him there -- was never a fan of the places where the dogs are kept in a kennel and walked maybe 3 times a day.

 
The boarding company should have paid. Whether they are legally obligated to pay depends on the contract and whether or not there was negligence I imagine.

 
I use dogvacay. Your dog can stay with someone in your home, or with them in their place. You meet with them beforehand, so you can feel them out. Also the company has its own insurance for things like this.

 
Based on that first paragraph, you are well within your rights to expect the other owner to pay, as I assume they signed the same agreement. 

 
Dan Lambskin said:
how do you go after the other owner.  cant he just claim his dog bit in self defense?
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Since it was the other dog's second offense and the kennel owner felt strongly enough to kick it out and forego any future potential business from that dog's owner, I'd say that's pretty good ground to stand on. 

 
Good luck.  You signed agreement saying you're liable.  Other owner did the same.  Unless there's something in there stating he's liable for his dog biting someone I think you're SOL

it sucks...you can certainly ask but I wouldn't expect him to pay

 
I'm glad Buck is alright because he is a super chill dog.

We can get to the ethical question but let's discuss a wrinkle to the legal question.  It's not about the center's obligation.  It's about your obligation.  And I think you'd be perfectly justified in telling the center that you won't pay the vet bill because they have the legal right to go after the other owner.  It's not your obligation yet.  And they've contracted for that eventuality.  You agreed to a waiver, not to an indemnification.

So I think the contract actually addresses the correct moral response.  The center should present the bill to the other dog owner as due under provision 1.

 
I was very tempted to go with "Smoo" for old times' sake (thanks for including that option). In the end I think the other owner should pay, at the behest of the center.

 
Dan Lambskin said:
Good luck.  You signed agreement saying you're liable.  Other owner did the same.  Unless there's something in there stating he's liable for his dog biting someone I think you're SOL

it sucks...you can certainly ask but I wouldn't expect him to pay
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#1

 
Scorchy is like the anti-timschochet. Has an idea for a thread, considers whether he should post it for an entire week before taking the plunge.

 
Who let the dogs out (together )?

Also....Once bitten, twice shy...Would you consider that a great 80's rock song?

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I'm glad Buck is alright because he is a super chill dog.

We can get to the ethical question but let's discuss a wrinkle to the legal question.  It's not about the center's obligation.  It's about your obligation.  And I think you'd be perfectly justified in telling the center that you won't pay the vet bill because they have the legal right to go after the other owner.  It's not your obligation yet.  And they've contracted for that eventuality.  You agreed to a waiver, not to an indemnification.

So I think the contract actually addresses the correct moral response.  The center should present the bill to the other dog owner as due under provision 1.
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Agree with this.  The biggest problem is that you paid the bill.  Had you refused to pay the bill, it might have been easier to get the owner to go after the other dogs' owner, but now I think he'd likely refuse unless you make a big deal out of it.

 
For the record, I don't plan on ever mentioning this to the boarding place in the future unless (1) Buck get's bitten again - at which point I'll start looking at a house sitter (JZilla?) or (2) Buck bites another dog and they bill me (and even then, I would still probably pay, just ask WTF?).

 
From a pragmatic standpoint, it's $120--not nearly worth it to sue or go after the other owner with anything more than a letter or call. 

Whether you covered it when picking up your dog depends on if you want an ongoing relationship with the boarding place. 

Where did you go for spring break?

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
Scorchy is like the anti-timschochet. Has an idea for a thread, considers whether he should post it for an entire week before taking the plunge.
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About time you show up.  I was thinking, "that jerk fatguy tells me I should start my first thread in 5-plus years and then he doesn't he even check in to make a joke."

 
chet said:
From a pragmatic standpoint, it's $120--not nearly worth it to sue or go after the other owner with anything more than a letter or call. 

Whether you covered it when picking up your dog depends on if you want an ongoing relationship with the boarding place. 

Where did you go for spring break?
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Definitely want to keep a good relationship - they've been great in the past and we're already booked with them for 2 weeks in June/July. 

We went to Maui.

 
Without taking the contract into consideration, I'd have a hard time asking the other dog owner to pay.  They weren't responsible for controlling their dog at the time it happened, and it's possible the kennel owner wasn't as attentive to earlier interactions as they should have been.

Quick story that might shed some light on my perspective...My dog is generally ok with other dogs, but plays hard and seems to have a overly-strong sense of justice when she feels she's been wronged. I used to bring her to the local dog park, but got tired of other owners.  The last time we went, there was a smaller dog that kept coming up behind my dog and nipping her back leg and then running away.  The first few times, my dog just quickly looked back annoyed and then kept playing with the other dogs she was playing with.  I looked at the other owner, seeing if she would do anything, but she apparently thought it was all pretty funny.  The next time the dog did it put mine over the edge and she quickly turned around, caught up to the other dog and tackled it.  She was snarling when she did it, but didn't actually bite. I pulled her away, and of course the other owner was looking at me and my dog with a horrified expression like she was some uncontrollable vicious aggressor.   Apparently, there's no instigator penalty at the park.

I've boarded my dog at a couple different "doggy daycare" type places in the past, but eventually decided it's best to keep her at our vet's boarding facility. They have indoor/outdoor runs, but are generally kept from playing with other dogs.  Maybe not the most fun and comfortable situation for her, but she's familiar with it and in the end, what I'm most interested in is keeping her safe and healthy for the few days I'm away.  I've heard too many bad stories of a dog getting seriously hurt from another and I'd hate for my dog to be on either end of that.

 
If the dog didn't need stitches and was fine, why did the kennel take him to the vet in the first place, especially without contacting you first? I could see doing that in an emergency situation but this doesn't really seem like an emergency.  Shouldn't a kennel have someone on staff knowledgeable enough to say "no need for a vet here."

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
If the dog didn't need stitches and was fine, why did the kennel take him to the vet in the first place, especially without contacting you first? I could see doing that in an emergency situation but this doesn't really seem like an emergency.  Shouldn't a kennel have someone on staff knowledgeable enough to say "no need for a vet here."
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I'm guessing they didn't know he didn't need stitches until after the vet examined him?

 
I would pay the $120 and not worry about it.

If you were at a gym playing pick-up basketball, and took an elbow which required stitches, you wouldn't expect the gym or the person who elbowed you to pay.  

But if my dog bit another dog at daycare, and the other owner wrote me a letter asking me to pay, I'd probably feel bad enough about that I would pay.

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
If the dog didn't need stitches and was fine, why did the kennel take him to the vet in the first place, especially without contacting you first? I could see doing that in an emergency situation but this doesn't really seem like an emergency.  Shouldn't a kennel have someone on staff knowledgeable enough to say "no need for a vet here."
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if it was my dog, I would want a vet to make that call. Plus they may have to take all injured dogs for liability reasons.

 
Thorpe said:
I would pay the $120 and not worry about it.

If you were at a gym playing pick-up basketball, and took an elbow which required stitches, you wouldn't expect the gym or the person who elbowed you to pay.  

But if my dog bit another dog at daycare, and the other owner wrote me a letter asking me to pay, I'd probably feel bad enough about that I would pay.
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I don't think an adult playing pick up basketball is a very good analogy.  This is an animal you need someone else to watch for you when you aren't present.  I think a child in a daycare is a better analogy.  If your three year old son was bit by another toddler in a day care and had to go to the doctor, who would pay that doctor bill?  

 
McGarnicle said:
They said he was lethargic and wasn't eating, then lost consciousness. The ER vet said it seemed like he was poisoned. The necropsy vet had no idea. ####### awful experience. The dog was less than a year old. I asked to see where they boarded him and they took me back there, absolutely disgusting. Steel cages stacked 3 high, unbearable stench. And this is a highly rated place in an affluent area north of Atlanta where rich ladies bring their little pocket dogs. Our dog will never spend 5 minutes in one of those places.
Click to expand...
 JFC, I'm so sorry. 

 
Bucky86 said:
I'm guessing they didn't know he didn't need stitches until after the vet examined him?
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Yep.  They also called our home number at first (instead of our mobile) and left a message.  After not getting a response for a few hours, I guess they figured it out and called my wife's cell.

 
McGarnicle said:
We had a dog die at a boarding place and had to pay $1000 to the emergency vets who tried to save him. We had no case against them because the necropsy was inconclusive as to cause of death. But in the case of a dog bite, seems like fault is clearly with either the business or the other dog's owner. I wouldn't pay a dime.

BTW, we only use Rover now. I wouldn't leave our dog in a kennel for even one night.
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I'm sorry to hear that man, that's terrible. 

 
Seems odd that the boarding place doesn't have insurance to cover this stuff.  $120 is no big deal,but let's say your dog needed surgery which cost a few grand.   Hell no would I be paying for that.

 
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