William Green or Lee Suggs? (1 Viewer)

[Loco Barlow]

I have NEVER seen a poll as close as this one..

I wonder how many Lee Suggs owners aliases have come into this thread and voted just so that Lee Suggs can stay remotely close to William Green in the poll. You know those Lee Suggs owners, they put on their rose-colored glasses and claim Suggs is a great back despite him not being able to stay healthy since his sophomore year in college. Suggs is a turd living off the hype of one good game, sound like Kelly Holcombe, heh? The ship is sinking Suggs owners.

 

[pinequick]

I'd say you're crossing the line Wittyname. Name calling by me has been limited to Lee Suggs, it's really not cool to talk like that about posters, weather you like or dislike what I or anybody else says. Why would you go the route of personal attacks is beyond me and I am offended.

I can't tell weather this guy is serious, or weather he is just kidding. I guess it depends on weather or not he was offended. Speaking of the forecast, I hear it calls for rain. . .

 

[JJ Evans]

I'd say you're crossing the line Wittyname. Name calling by me has been limited to Lee Suggs, it's really not cool to talk like that about posters, weather you like or dislike what I or anybody else says. Why would you go the route of personal attacks is beyond me and I am offended.

lmao! I sincerely hope that you are fishing.When you completely misrepresent someone's argument, and then do so derisively, what exactly do you expect? To be showered with rose petals?

Ok, I'm misrepresenting exactly WHOSE argument? What in gods name are you talking about? 10-1 odds I don't get an answer because what he said is

 

[JJ Evans]

I'd say you're crossing the line Wittyname. Name calling by me has been limited to Lee Suggs, it's really not cool to talk like that about posters, weather you like or dislike what I or anybody else says. Why would you go the route of personal attacks is beyond me and I am offended.

I can't tell weather this guy is serious, or weather he is just kidding.

Obviously.

 

[moderated]

However, I wonder if the folks that voted OWNED either of the players in Dynasty. Obviously, these people shouldn't vote because we all know that's just flaVVed.

90% of all threads in this pool are flawed then.

 

[P Boy]

Ok, I'm misrepresenting exactly WHOSE argument? What in gods name are you talking about? 10-1 odds I don't get an answer because what he said is

Now I'm getting concerned. There are some indicators of Alzheimer's disease here.My argument listed above. The one I specifically responded to stating that you had taken my argument completely out of context, and had done so quite imperiously. That is the argument that wittyname is referring to, also, hence the start of his response with PB.

I guess I shouldn't expect any less from someone pimping a turd like William Green so relentlessly.

 

[Loco Barlow]

I guess I shouldn't expect any less from someone pimping a turd like Lee Suggs so relentlessly.

Edit

 

[JJ Evans]

Ok, I'm misrepresenting exactly WHOSE argument? What in gods name are you talking about? 10-1 odds I don't get an answer because what he said is

Now I'm getting concerned. There are some indicators of Alzheimer's disease here.My argument listed above. The one I specifically responded to stating that you had taken my argument completely out of context, and had done so quite imperiously. That is the argument that wittyname is referring to, also, hence the start of his response with PB.

I guess I shouldn't expect any less from someone pimping a turd like William Green so relentlessly.

I hear violins

 

[JJ Evans]

Ok, I'm misrepresenting exactly WHOSE argument? What in gods name are you talking about? 10-1 odds I don't get an answer because what he said is

Now I'm getting concerned. There are some indicators of Alzheimer's disease here.My argument listed above. The one I specifically responded to stating that you had taken my argument completely out of context, and had done so quite imperiously. That is the argument that wittyname is referring to, also, hence the start of his response with PB.

I guess I shouldn't expect any less from someone pimping a turd like William Green so relentlessly.

Oh yeah, I remember, you're the Einstein that compared Lee "Turd" Suggs to Jamal "2000 yards" Lewis. I don't even think that constitutes having an argument. :rotflmao:

 

[Confucius]

The end is near Suggs owners. Two more weeks.Once the pads go on I give it one week before Suggs lands himself on the Injured Reserve list.

 

[P Boy]

I hear violins

:rotflmao:

 

[Burning Sensation]

This poll is useless, if we did a dynasty or redraft today, 99% of everyone who has voted would select Suggs before Green. Just because every Green owner and their aliases voted for Green means absolutely nothing(other than the fact that Green owners are not all that bright, based on the fact that they think by voting for Green will actually help his chances of being the Browns starter this year.)I drafted Suggs before last season in the 2nd round in 2 of my 3 dynasty leagues rookie drafts because i thought Green was not a very good RB. Not only did Green establish himself as more of a thug than an NFL RB, but Suggs took advantage of the limited oppurtunity he was given. You Green owners are some of the angriest people in the shark pool, which i cant blame you for, but you should stop torturing yourselves over it, we all make mistakes.

 

[JJ Evans]

This poll is useless, if we did a dynasty or redraft today, 99% of everyone who has voted would select Suggs before Green. Just because every Green owner and their aliases voted for Green means absolutely nothing(other than the fact that Green owners are not all that bright, based on the fact that they think by voting for Green will actually help his chances of being the Browns starter this year.)I drafted Suggs before last season in the 2nd round in 2 of my 3 dynasty leagues rookie drafts because i thought Green was not a very good RB. Not only did Green establish himself as more of a thug than an NFL RB, but Suggs took advantage of the limited oppurtunity he was given. You Green owners are some of the angriest people in the shark pool, which i cant blame you for, but you should stop torturing yourselves over it, we all make mistakes.

This from a guy who took Amos in the 3rd round, and Tiki in the 1st round. And LJ as the #1 rookie overall. :rotflmao: I'd like to talk to you on ICQ though about your sleeper WRS for this year, you do have a knack for getting WRS late like S. Smith, SMoss, etc;

 

[P Boy]

Not only did Green establish himself as more of a thug than an [sic] NFL RB, but Suggs took advantage of the limited oppurtunity he was given. You Green owners are some of the angriest people in the shark pool, which i cant blame you for, but you should stop torturing yourselves over it, we all make mistakes.

I can't believe that I actually agree with something that BS posted.

 

[Burning Sensation]

This poll is useless, if we did a dynasty or redraft today, 99% of everyone who has voted would select Suggs before Green. Just because every Green owner and their aliases voted for Green means absolutely nothing(other than the fact that Green owners are not all that bright, based on the fact that they think by voting for Green will actually help his chances of being the Browns starter this year.)

I drafted Suggs before last season in the 2nd round in 2 of my 3 dynasty leagues rookie drafts because i thought Green was not a very good RB. Not only did Green establish himself as more of a thug than an NFL RB, but Suggs took advantage of the limited oppurtunity he was given. You Green owners are some of the angriest people in the shark pool, which i cant blame you for, but you should stop torturing yourselves over it, we all make mistakes.

This from a guy who took Amos in the 3rd round, and Tiki in the 1st round. And LJ as the #1 rookie overall. :rotflmao: I'd like to talk to you on ICQ though about your sleeper WRS for this year, you do have a knack for getting WRS late like S. Smith, SMoss, etc;

Tiki in the 2nd, Amos in the 4th, but yes, LJ 1st overall. Dont forget to mention in said rookie draft i also took Chris Brown and Lee Suggs, as well as late rounders like Anquan Boldin and Quentin Griffin.Zereoue was a bad call, like i said, we all make mistakes, but you dont see me here pimping him as the Raiders starting RB. I, unlike Green owners, realize when i have made a mistake, and move on.

P.S. Is that you Craig? I knew JJ had to be an alias of either you or George Jefferson

 

[amnesiac]

Sorry if i offended anyone. It's difficult to have an intelligent conversation when people don't read the threads thouroughly. I get upset when posters don't try to understand what someone else is trying to say, but instead jump to all sorts of conclusions.Nutshell:Someone said Suggs is an injury risk because of his college injuries.Someone else pointed out that there have been players with similar concerns who have done well in the NFLAt that point, someone said that Suggs is a piece of feces and shouldn't be compared to these players because they are better than Suggs.Where did this discussion get derailed and why?

 

[jurb26]

Now I know that this is a very far out and odd idea. But did it ever occure to both Green and Suggs owners alike that maybe, just maybe there are people out there who do not have either one of these turds on their teams and have nothing to benifit either way. I know catch your breath as its hard to envision, but its true. The pimping of these guys is out of hand. Even as the sole runner in Clev. niether guy has much of a chance to become all that worth while. Have you guys looked at this team and its history of running the ball of late? Just so you know they haven't had a 1000+ rusher since 1985 when oddly enough they had 2 in Byner and Mack.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Now I know that this is a very far out and odd idea. But did it ever occure to both Green and Suggs owners alike that maybe, just maybe there are people out there who do not have either one of these turds on their teams and have nothing to benifit either way. I know catch your breath as its hard to envision, but its true. The pimping of these guys is out of hand. Even as the sole runner in Clev. niether guy has much of a chance to become all that worth while. Have you guys looked at this team and its history of running the ball of late? Just so you know they haven't had a 1000+ rusher since 1985 when oddly enough they had 2 in Byner and Mack.

I guess they are due for one then.

 

[jurb26]

I guess they are due for one then.

I might agree with you if the Oline wasn't still a mess. Will be fun to watch either way though.

 

[Burning Sensation]

I guess they are due for one then.

I might agree with you if the Oline wasn't still a mess. Will be fun to watch either way though.

Well, you are probably right(about not being a 1000 yard back) but Suggs will get to play the Bengals twice and home against the Charges in week 15(playoff time), he should be good for about 500 yards and 4 TD's in those games.

 

[Marc Levin]

I guess they are due for one then.

I might agree with you if the Oline wasn't still a mess. Will be fun to watch either way though.

Well, you are probably right(about not being a 1000 yard back) but Suggs will get to play the Bengals twice and home against the Charges in week 15(playoff time), he should be good for about 500 yards and 4 TD's in those games.

:hijack on: Mark these words here: Cincie = most improved defense for 2004 after being a better than bottom feeder in 2003. Back to your regularly scheduled posturing about a pair of backs that are unlikely to crack 1000 yards or 6 TDs :hijack off:

 

[Burning Sensation]

I guess they are due for one then.

I might agree with you if the Oline wasn't still a mess. Will be fun to watch either way though.

Well, you are probably right(about not being a 1000 yard back) but Suggs will get to play the Bengals twice and home against the Charges in week 15(playoff time), he should be good for about 500 yards and 4 TD's in those games.

:hijack on: Mark these words here: Cincie = most improved defense for 2004 after being a better than bottom feeder in 2003. Back to your regularly scheduled posturing about a pair of backs that are unlikely to crack 1000 yards or 6 TDs :hijack off:

You have not seen most of the Sugg backers proclaiming that he will get 1000 yards, just that he is better than Willie Green.

 

[Marc Levin]

I actually see these guys as different talents - Suggs is a breakaway talent with good hands and less workhorse/power ability. I see Green as a power back, workhorse ability, no hands, with a tendency to fall down easily when tackled rather than breaking the tackles - but he can take 30+ carries in a game. I am not sure Suggs can handle that type of workload.Either way, I don''t project either to be a significant NFL talent, nor a significant FF producer. Both have questionable talent and questionable opportunity to succeed (OL, short leash, Garcia snaking G/L TDs and between 20s rushes, etc.). Without Talent and Opp, you rarely get Production. But, have fun guys.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Without Talent and Opp, you rarely get Production. But, have fun guys.

No talent? I dont like Green, but even he has some talent.

 

[Marc Levin]

I never said they didn't have "some" talent. I said without the combo of T + O, there is no P.

 

[P Boy]

I actually see these guys as different talents - Suggs is a breakaway talent with good hands and less workhorse/power ability.

Marc, how can you say that the RB whom holds the NCAA Div 1A record for rushing TDs in a season is not a power RB? Do you think most of those TDs came from 20+ yds out? Suggs is money in short yardage/goalline situations.

 

[Burning Sensation]

I never said they didn't have "some" talent. I said without the combo of T + O, there is no P.

Well, i wont be counting on Suggs as a starter, but to say he has no chance of being a productive fantasy starter is a bit naive.I could go on listing players who people said had no chance of being a good FF RB based on their size, talent, oppurtunity, etc., but anyone who needs that list is not worth discussing this with anyway, so i wont.

 

[jurb26]

Suggs is money in short yardage/goalline situations.

To bad Clev won't be getting there very often this season and even when they do whoever the RB is is going to have to fight Winslow for the targets.

 

[Burning Sensation]

I actually see these guys as different talents - Suggs is a breakaway talent with good hands and less workhorse/power ability.

Marc, how can you say that the RB whom holds the NCAA Div 1A record for rushing TDs in a season is not a power RB? Do you think most of those TDs came from 20+ yds out? Suggs is money in short yardage/goalline situations.

If Suggs weighed 225 lbs instead of 205, people wouldnt stereotype him as strictly as a "breakaway talent"

 

[moderated]

Suggs is a breakaway talent with good hands.

Where do you get that?His knock coming out of college was his lack of hands. And thus far in his career he hasn't shown yet that this was a wrong assessment.

He might all of a sudden get these great hands you talk about, but up until now it is still viewed as a weakness of his, not a strength.

 

[Burning Sensation]

even when they do whoever the RB is is going to have to fight Winslow for the targets.

not sure i would be too worried about this as a Green or Suggs owner.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Suggs is a breakaway talent with good hands.

Where do you get that?His knock coming out of college was his lack of hands. And thus far in his career he hasn't shown yet that this was a wrong assessment.

He might all of a sudden get these great hands you talk about, but up until now it is still viewed as a weakness of his, not a strength.

I was wondering the same thing

 

[JJ Evans]

Suggs is a breakaway talent with good hands.

Where do you get that?His knock coming out of college was his lack of hands. And thus far in his career he hasn't shown yet that this was a wrong assessment.

He might all of a sudden get these great hands you talk about, but up until now it is still viewed as a weakness of his, not a strength.

I was wondering the same thing

He feels the need to pimp the guy he owns in his league, and since Suggs is so weak he has to make things up.

 

[Marc Levin]

Suggs is a breakaway talent with good hands.

Where do you get that?His knock coming out of college was his lack of hands. And thus far in his career he hasn't shown yet that this was a wrong assessment.

He might all of a sudden get these great hands you talk about, but up until now it is still viewed as a weakness of his, not a strength.

I was wondering the same thing

Might be thinking of the wrong thing - I thought I saw him take a couple nice passes for deep last year, but I admit I didn't watch Suggs that closely last year.I also didn't mean to say Suggs is not a powerback, but I DO mean to say that Green is MORE of a power back - at least based on body build and use, so far, in that offense. Mike Amderson = power back versus Portis - doesn't mean Portis CAN'T run it in from 2 yards out, but Anmdewrson is more of a power styule runner than Portis - there's the analogy I was attempting to make.

Finally, B.S., I NEVER said this:

but to say he has no chance of being a productive fantasy starter is a bit naive

I gave the formula - whic is a good one. Both these backs have questionable talent. Both thtese backs have (very) questionable opportuynity to display what talent they have, and I do not expect either to be particularly productive fantasy players for 2004.Like I said, have at it on this debate between two potentially borderline RB3 for 2004. This debate is more interesting to wonder which rrunner would be better in a dynasty league two years down the road when the Cleveland run game might actually matter.

 

[Burning Sensation]

He feels the need to pimp the guy he owns in his league,

Well, you would certainly know when someone is doing that, except in this case, he was actually saying Suggs, nor Green has talent, and neither would be any good.

 

[JJ Evans]

He feels the need to pimp the guy he owns in his league,

Well, you would certainly know when someone is doing that, except in this case, he was actually saying Suggs, nor Green has talent, and neither would be any good.

Yeah, and I own Henry, not McGahee and you can go read my thoughts on that situation in the other thread. Your argument just went......... Kaput.

 

[Marc Levin]

Suggs is a breakaway talent with good hands.

Where do you get that?His knock coming out of college was his lack of hands. And thus far in his career he hasn't shown yet that this was a wrong assessment.

He might all of a sudden get these great hands you talk about, but up until now it is still viewed as a weakness of his, not a strength.

I was wondering the same thing

He feels the need to pimp the guy he owns in his league, and since Suggs is so weak he has to make things up.

I own neither - and wouldn't choose to unless for exceptional value.I think they both hold decent value in no-starter/survivor leasgues where you can simply take their best efforts and leave the rest.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Might be thinking of the wrong thing - I thought I saw him take a couple nice passes for deep last year, but I admit I didn't watch Suggs that closely last year.

hmmm, if this is indeed true, would it be fair to say that your opinion of Suggs should mean little to us who actually watched him play?

 

[Marc Levin]

Might be thinking of the wrong thing - I thought I saw him take a couple nice passes for deep last year, but I admit I didn't watch Suggs that closely last year.

hmmm, if this is indeed true, would it be fair to say that your opinion of Suggs should mean little to us who actually watched him play?

Sure - go for it.

 

[Marc Levin]

But, I did watch him a good deal in college - though college performance, IMO, means little once the player gets to the NFL.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Might be thinking of the wrong thing - I thought I saw him take a couple nice passes for deep last year, but I admit I didn't watch Suggs that closely last year.

hmmm, if this is indeed true, would it be fair to say that your opinion of Suggs should mean little to us who actually watched him play?

Sure - go for it.

Sorry, that came off a little meaner than i meant.

 

[{Syrus}]

So Marc Levin comes in here and throws out his two cents on Lee Suggs, a player he admittedly says he didn't watch closely....hmm, remind me never to listen to Levin's opinions again. You could at least watch a player before declaring yourself an authority on his talent level.

 

[Marc Levin]

So Marc Levin comes in here and throws out his two cents on Lee Suggs, a player he admittedly says he didn't watch closely....hmm, remind me never to listen to Levin's opinions again. You could at least watch a player before declaring yourself an authority on his talent level.

LAST year I didn't watch him as closely as I would have liked. I saw him plenty in college.Watch your tone Syrus.

 

[moderated]

But, I did watch him a good deal in college - though college performance, IMO, means little once the player gets to the NFL.

I'm not trying to pile it on.But if you watched him in college how in the world could you have been under the impression he had good hands. He barely caught any balls in college.

 

[JJ Evans]

So Marc Levin comes in here and throws out his two cents on Lee Suggs, a player he admittedly says he didn't watch closely....hmm, remind me never to listen to Levin's opinions again. You could at least watch a player before declaring yourself an authority on his talent level.

LAST year I didn't watch him as closely as I would have liked. I saw him plenty in college.Watch your tone Syrus.

CATFIGHT!!!

 

[jurb26]

Ummm what exactly was there to watch of Suggs last year? He only saw sig action in 2 games! I'd really like to know what was so apparent to all the Suggs owners who watched his 1 good game vs. Cinci that the rest of the world is unaware of. Before you even respond, yes the Cinci game was impressive. But news flash, it was ONE GAME. People are talking about how Rodgers is tough to get a feel for tallent wise in the NFL and he played 5 games, yet the Suggs owners were all miraculously blessed with this power to pick the next great RB from one performance. Man this is getting old.

 

[Marc Levin]

But, I did watch him a good deal in college - though college performance, IMO, means little once the player gets to the NFL.

I'm not trying to pile it on.But if you watched him in college how in the world could you have been under the impression he had good hands. He barely caught any balls in college.

OK- one more time:I remember him catching a few passes and going far with them last year - my memory is obviously faulty on that (he had 2 catches for 0 yards).I did NOT watch him closely in the two games he had the bulk of his stats last year, thus the faulty memory for his NFL year re: his hands, BUT:I watched him enough in college to understand his talent - he had good speed, from my memory of him, along with good vision at the point of attack, and breakaway ability - both breaking tackles and outdistancing opponents. These are traits he has demonstrated in the NFL.No worries about piling on - question us when we are wrong. It DOES happen.

 

[Marc Levin]

So Marc Levin comes in here and throws out his two cents on Lee Suggs, a player he admittedly says he didn't watch closely....hmm, remind me never to listen to Levin's opinions again.  You could at least watch a player before declaring yourself an authority on his talent level.

LAST year I didn't watch him as closely as I would have liked. I saw him plenty in college.Watch your tone Syrus.

CATFIGHT!!!

No fight when we don't have equal power. There is little tolerance for personally attacking posters - there is only moderately more leeway for attacking staff - we are thick skinned, but you only get one warning.

 

[{Syrus}]

No worries about piling on - question us when we are wrong. It DOES happen.

Just watch your tone, as they happen to be a little thin in the skin.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Ummm what exactly was there to watch of Suggs last year? He only saw sig action in 2 games! I'd really like to know what was so apparent to all the Suggs owners who watched his 1 good game vs. Cinci that the rest of the world is unaware of. Before you even respond, yes the Cinci game was impressive. But news flash, it was ONE GAME. People are talking about how Rodgers is tough to get a feel for tallent wise in the NFL and he played 5 games, yet the Suggs owners were all miraculously blessed with this power to pick the next great RB from one performance. Man this is getting old.

Nobody said Suggs is Hall of fame bound from the two games he played. But how many games do you need to see to recognize that a guy has talent? If you never heard of Tomlinson and watched him play for an entire game, would it be safe to say that you could tell he was talented?Disclaimer: I AM NOT SAYING Suggs is as good as Tomlinson. Again, i am not comparing Suggs to Tomlinson in anyway, i was just using LT as an example.