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WR Laquon Treadwell, SEA (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Dedfin
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Looks like Wayne had a high ankle sprain in the preseason. He didn't play until week 2 when Jerome Pathon was injured.
Just listening to Mike Zimmers press conference and when asked about Treadwell he points out that Diggs wasn't even active until week 3 of the season (this was actually week 4). He says it takes time before these rookie players are ready to play.
mr roboto
Footballguy
strong
Footballguy
right. because having a discussion about historical comps is being a veruca salt.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Id be more concerned if he got on the field and looked like garbage
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
strong
Footballguy
i agree. i'm not suggesting there's no need for patience with a rookie receiver or in dynasty.
and i'm not exactly asking about guys who merely didn't set the world on fire in week one.
i'm just interested in finding players with similar trajectories who didn't even see the field and were healthy. i think there's helpful context in looking at that.
some around here are obviously uninterested in that sort of thing since each player is a unique snowflake and historical data be damned.
but it seems you have to throw out a lot of previous data and find unique excuses (or reasons, i guess) for treadwell's inactivity to feel comfortable that his dyno value is in the same spot it was two days ago.
i'm not making any predictions, but my guess is, though, that if rookie dyno drafts were held today, treadwell has fallen behind several players that he was ahead of just a week or two ago.
spider321
Footballguy
How many 2nd year RB's have started in the 1st Monday Night Football game, and only gained 28 yards on 11 carries at halftime?
I'm not making any predictions, but my guess is, though, that if dyno drafts were held today, Gurley has fallen behind several players that he was ahead of just a week or two ago.
I'm not making any predictions, but my guess is, though, that if dyno drafts were held today, Gurley has fallen behind several players that he was ahead of just a week or two ago.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Treadwell main problem as far as starting right away is that the Vikings actually have some other good WR right now with more experience and similar if not greater athletic talent than he has right now.
Cordarralle Patterson has been a long term project, but he also was a 1st round pick. Flashy as a rookie but then disappeared because he needed a lot more work on fundamentals of route running, timing, being at the right depth at the right time every time. He made a nice catch yesterday and he barely saw the field.
The reason Patterson is not playing more is because do everything special teams phenom is a better football player than Patterson, even if not quite as athletically gifted as Patterson, he is still very fast and the guy just makes plays every time they give him a chance.
Charles Johnson has been playing well through camp. This is actually the easiest path to playing time for Treadwell if he could start splitting with Johnson.
Then there is Stefon Diggs. On a team that doesn't want to pass the ball very much with their QB being Shaun Hill.
I am surprised Treadwell was active. If Xavier Rhodes and Pruitt been healthy he likely wouldn't have been.
A lot of 1st round rookies will come to a team as perhaps the best or second best WR on the team from day one. But all 3 of these guys starting have already beaten out Patterson for playing time. They are not going to give up that playing time easily now, 1st round pick or not.
Cordarralle Patterson has been a long term project, but he also was a 1st round pick. Flashy as a rookie but then disappeared because he needed a lot more work on fundamentals of route running, timing, being at the right depth at the right time every time. He made a nice catch yesterday and he barely saw the field.
The reason Patterson is not playing more is because do everything special teams phenom is a better football player than Patterson, even if not quite as athletically gifted as Patterson, he is still very fast and the guy just makes plays every time they give him a chance.
Charles Johnson has been playing well through camp. This is actually the easiest path to playing time for Treadwell if he could start splitting with Johnson.
Then there is Stefon Diggs. On a team that doesn't want to pass the ball very much with their QB being Shaun Hill.
I am surprised Treadwell was active. If Xavier Rhodes and Pruitt been healthy he likely wouldn't have been.
A lot of 1st round rookies will come to a team as perhaps the best or second best WR on the team from day one. But all 3 of these guys starting have already beaten out Patterson for playing time. They are not going to give up that playing time easily now, 1st round pick or not.
strong
Footballguy
right. because my whole point is about having one bad FF game... but this isn't about results. it's about opportunities. and i'm curious about highly picked healthy rookie receivers getting little to no opportunities.
and even though i know you're just being a #####, no. gurley wouldn't be any lower than he was the other day. i'm sure plenty of 2nd year RBs who had studly rookie years had a bad first game 2nd year. he still started. he's still the main focal point on offense.
and be honest: would you draft fuller, shepard, sharpe, coleman ahead of treadwell now? i'm thinking a good number of people who drafted treadwell would pull a trigger straight up right now for any of those guys...
and hey. i'm holding treadwell until he gets some game action at least. i'm just trying to find historical examples. i'm glad someone like roddy white exists. it just makes me a little nervous that it was so long ago...
spider321
Footballguy
Shoo, fly.
The "scientific study" you apparently want to conduct will not give you the necessary information to come to any type of educated conclusion about Treadwell.
...but you are not capable of understanding that.
So, shoo fly. Shoooo!
...and lol at would I draft differently today than a week ago. I'm not a toddler. I am capable of considering the "long game". One game is nothing in the dynasty big picture. Heck, 8 games might make me slightly nervous.
The "scientific study" you apparently want to conduct will not give you the necessary information to come to any type of educated conclusion about Treadwell.
...but you are not capable of understanding that.
So, shoo fly. Shoooo!
...and lol at would I draft differently today than a week ago. I'm not a toddler. I am capable of considering the "long game". One game is nothing in the dynasty big picture. Heck, 8 games might make me slightly nervous.
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strong
Footballguy
did i use the term scientific study? why are you putting it in quotes? you're being kind of defensive about someone just asking for historical comps...
really? i'm not capable of understanding small sample sizes and the volatility and unpredictability of a single game of football just because i'm curious about other first round receivers who started so low on the depth chart at the beginning of a season?
it's not like i'm asking something really weird like: hey what other rookies went 2 for 23 in their first game and became pro bowlers???? it's just a basic snaps/depth chart question.
it's an odd world when curiosity implies a lack of intelligence.
ok. so you'd still pick him #2. i wouldn't and think you'd be in the minority there. in fact, by week four of the preseason when he hadn't moved up the depth chart, he was already starting to slip in dyno drafts... i think a couple FBGs even dropped him closer to 10 by the end of the preseason. but whatever. good to know that you'd put your threshold at closer to 8 games. (isn't constructive dialogue fun??!?)
what's with this? again, pretty defensive considering my strongest take was: hey guys, what other first rounders have basically been been healthy scratches in week 1 and still went on to have productive FF careers?
lol
strong
Footballguy
strong
Footballguy
really not good company treadwell is in here...
AJ jenkins & jon baldwin are the only recent first rounders i could find who started out so invisible. those guys are out of the league already.
brian quick was the 33rd pick and saw the field sparingly the first few weeks...
i'd suppose at this point there's not much you can do if you picked him, but the fact he barely saw the field the first two weeks and was now a healthy scratch ain't good.
AJ jenkins & jon baldwin are the only recent first rounders i could find who started out so invisible. those guys are out of the league already.
brian quick was the 33rd pick and saw the field sparingly the first few weeks...
i'd suppose at this point there's not much you can do if you picked him, but the fact he barely saw the field the first two weeks and was now a healthy scratch ain't good.
spider321
Footballguy
Diggs was a healthy scratch the first 3 games last season, and he only played in week 4 due to injuries to two of their other WR's.
Now, strong will tell you that that's different because Diggs was not a first round pick, but the Vikings are apparently weird when it comes to rookie WR's.
Maybe others did not, but I always thought Treadwell might have a "red-shirt" season.
As a dynasty owner, I am not the least bit worried about his long-term potential.
...but I ignored the Melvin Gordon chicken litttles last year, too.
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Matt Vensel
✔ @mattvensel
Why isn't Laquon Treadwell playing? Zimmer thinks he is still thinking too much as he tries to get completely comfortable in the offense.
2:14 PM - 26 Sep 2016
✔ @mattvensel
Why isn't Laquon Treadwell playing? Zimmer thinks he is still thinking too much as he tries to get completely comfortable in the offense.
2:14 PM - 26 Sep 2016
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Jarius Wright was activated for the game against the Panthers and Treadwell was inactive.
Here are the snap counts and utilization for Vikings skill players in week 3
K Rudolph TE 52 96% 10 targets 7 receptions 70 yards 1TD
S Diggs WR 48 89% 7 targets 4 receptions 40 yards
C Johnson WR 38 70% 2 targets
J McKinnon RB 35 65% 16 rushing attempts 45 yards 2.8 ypc 2 targets 1 reception 2 yards
A Thielen WR 32 59% 4 targets 3 receptions 29 yards
R Ellison TE 21 39% 1 target 1 reception 18 yards (nice TE screen)
M Asiata RB 19 35% 6 rushing attempts 15 yards 2.5 ypc 1 target 1 reception 4 yards
Z Line FB 16 30%
C Patterson WR 5 9% 1 target 1 reception 8 yards
D Morgan TE 3 6%
J Wright WR 1 2%
Charles Johnson over 3 games has 127 offensive snaps (72.6%) 10 targets 3 receptions 20 yards. This is 11% of the Vikings targets 4th most on the team.
Adam Theilen has had 15.3% of the targets 3rd most on the team.
The Vikings average 58 offensive snaps per game and have thrown the ball 92 times or 31 attempts/game.
Given that the Vikings do not really win games with their offense and the volume continues to be low Laquon Treadwell would be minimally involved in the offense even if he was playing based on how often Charles Johnson has been used despite playing over 70% of the plays.
I was pretty disappointed in Charles Johnson dropping what could have been a pretty nice reception in the 2nd quarter. The ball was right on his hands and Bradford led him well enough that he should have been able to keep stride while making the catch, instead he jumps and turns his body somewhat awkwardly (which limited his ability to RAC) and fails to make the reception.
While there are a lot of snaps Johnson isn't doing much so maybe Treadwell will get an opportunity soon if he is ready. Or they could have Jarius Wright play out there. Maybe Charles Johnson is doing a good job blocking. He does have speed to draw coverage deeper. These are the only reasons I can see for why Johnson is playing as much as he has.
The Vikings are winning so they probably don't care.
Here are the snap counts and utilization for Vikings skill players in week 3
K Rudolph TE 52 96% 10 targets 7 receptions 70 yards 1TD
S Diggs WR 48 89% 7 targets 4 receptions 40 yards
C Johnson WR 38 70% 2 targets
J McKinnon RB 35 65% 16 rushing attempts 45 yards 2.8 ypc 2 targets 1 reception 2 yards
A Thielen WR 32 59% 4 targets 3 receptions 29 yards
R Ellison TE 21 39% 1 target 1 reception 18 yards (nice TE screen)
M Asiata RB 19 35% 6 rushing attempts 15 yards 2.5 ypc 1 target 1 reception 4 yards
Z Line FB 16 30%
C Patterson WR 5 9% 1 target 1 reception 8 yards
D Morgan TE 3 6%
J Wright WR 1 2%
Charles Johnson over 3 games has 127 offensive snaps (72.6%) 10 targets 3 receptions 20 yards. This is 11% of the Vikings targets 4th most on the team.
Adam Theilen has had 15.3% of the targets 3rd most on the team.
The Vikings average 58 offensive snaps per game and have thrown the ball 92 times or 31 attempts/game.
Given that the Vikings do not really win games with their offense and the volume continues to be low Laquon Treadwell would be minimally involved in the offense even if he was playing based on how often Charles Johnson has been used despite playing over 70% of the plays.
I was pretty disappointed in Charles Johnson dropping what could have been a pretty nice reception in the 2nd quarter. The ball was right on his hands and Bradford led him well enough that he should have been able to keep stride while making the catch, instead he jumps and turns his body somewhat awkwardly (which limited his ability to RAC) and fails to make the reception.
While there are a lot of snaps Johnson isn't doing much so maybe Treadwell will get an opportunity soon if he is ready. Or they could have Jarius Wright play out there. Maybe Charles Johnson is doing a good job blocking. He does have speed to draw coverage deeper. These are the only reasons I can see for why Johnson is playing as much as he has.
The Vikings are winning so they probably don't care.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
I traded him. I dont like the reward/risk any more.
Around The NFL
✔ @AroundTheNFL
Mike Zimmer on Laquon Treadwell's lack of playing time: He needs to 'continue to do better in practice'http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000710833/article/zimmer-explains-laquon-treadwells-onfield-absence?campaign=Twitter_atn …
9:35 AM - 27 Sep 2016
✔ @AroundTheNFL
Mike Zimmer on Laquon Treadwell's lack of playing time: He needs to 'continue to do better in practice'http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000710833/article/zimmer-explains-laquon-treadwells-onfield-absence?campaign=Twitter_atn …
9:35 AM - 27 Sep 2016
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
Surprises how quick people are to look at fantasy stats. Melvin Gordon is still awful. Want to laugh at people for worrying about Gordon being awful for a year but you are basing his turning it around off a couple of td runs while hes been bad as last year itherwise. Treadwell owners should be concerned. Teams don't ever sit first round wrs for a year. People shouldn't panic and I think he'll be okay but to think it isn't bad news is just delusional.
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dipandglide
Footballguy
The guy is 21 and on a run first team. Give it time before you rush to judgement. He's a solid hold unless you can get a player like Cobb or the like.
spider321
Footballguy
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strong
Footballguy
psuedoscience is looking at past rookies game logs now?
i'm just curious about this situation and having a conversation. sorry if that offends you.
spider321
Footballguy
It's ok, strong.
Your safe space was only violated for a moment.
I apologize for the microaggression.
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strong
Footballguy
i'm holding out hope. but would be interested to hear if anyone's traded him lately and what those deals look like. his value has to be below fuller & coleman right now. and i'd imagine it would be difficult to get shephard or doctson for him straight up...
strong
Footballguy
why are you even in this thread engaging with me? seriously. what offends you so much? is life that hard for you? go get help and leave me alone, please. thanks.
spider321
Footballguy
You just quoted me 13 minutes ago.
If your feelings are too fragile for your opinion to be challenged, don't quote me.
Otherwise, pull up your skinny jeans, and take the disagreement like a man.
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tone1oc
Footballguy
Diggs is in the slot, Treadwell would be on the outside on 3WR sets replacing Johnson.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
strong
Footballguy
i was responding to you talking about me.
so, please, just leave me alone. find someone else to troll, bubba.
spider321
Footballguy
Block me then, or stop quoting me, and crying about it when i respond.
I do not care which.
I swear, you're like the "I'm not touching you!" baby brother who runs to his mommy when the older brother finally gets tired of it, and smacks him.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
I agree that Charles Johnson hasn't been doing much, so you have to wonder how long the Vikings stick with him before giving Treadwell a shot at the X position. Obviously they have their reasons for not doing so yet, and from what I can tell it is because they want to see more from Treadwell in practice. This may be in regards to running routes with precision. There may be other reasons I haven't heard yet.
I thought Treadwell would be used in the slot also, but for now Diggs and Theilen have been working from the slot a lot and that seems good for Diggs. So that limits Treadwells opportunity to fit in there. So with that occupied for the most part, he needs to win snaps at the X position, which is where he has been practicing since the Vikings drafted him.
The X WR is on the field when they are in 2 WR sets. So this is a bit more difficult for Treadwell to break into the lineup than it would be if he were to get an opportunity as a 3rd or 4th WR. Treadwell has to beat out Patterson, Johnson and Theilen to get playing time. Last week Wright was active over him, so this suggests he needs to beat out Wright for playing time also.
During training camp I was under the impression that Charles Johnson was playing really well and that was the reason Treadwell had to wait. Based on the first 3 games, we haven't seen that from Johnson who is barely involved and getting less targets than Theilen so far.
Because of the defense, the Vikings will continue to slow roll on offense as much as they can. They are only averaging 58 offensive plays per game, and throwing it an average of 31 times per game. So this isn't an offense that provides a lot of opportunity for receivers to begin with and the Vikings do have a lot of WR right now.
I do think it is possible the Vikings start throwing the ball more as Bradford gets more comfortable with the offense, especially if the running game continues to struggle, they may have to out of necessity. If they do, then this may mean more 3 and 4 WR sets which could give more opportunity for WR to get on the field. Part of the half time adjustment against Carolina was to spread them out more according to Bradford. That is certainly something he is familiar with, and maybe the Vikings actually do more of that in games ahead.
There have been rumors that the Vikings are shopping Jarius Wright to other teams in trade. Not sure if any teams are interested in Wright, I am sure the asking price isn't much.
Bottom line is Treadwell needs to start practicing better to crack the lineup.
Valhalla
Footballguy
Great post and I agree with you, especially about the last sentence. I think when you start hearing about him in actual practices is when he will crack the lineup.
One other note from watching him in preseason ....he looked a little slow and didn't show much separation playing against scrubs. This is something obviously that can't be coached and worries me going forward. I'm not saying he can't ever play Z in the future, it just stood out to me because when I watched Diggs play in the preseason last season, I KNEW he was electric and once he got his shot he'd make the most of it. He passed the "eye test" lol. Treadwell didn't do that for me, but I think he'd be productive in the slot early on at least, but that's where Diggs is rotated into much of the time.
The bottom line though is that Charles is doing NOTHING and I strongly feel they'll bring in Treadwell shortly.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I agree Treadwell looked slow and somewhat lost in the 4th preseason game, which is the only time I have seen him play.
One of the positives about Treadwell in college was his blocking ability, so that seems like a good reason to get him on the field if nothing else. Charles Johnson is only averaging 3 targets per game so far, so it's not like he would be targeted much even if he does start playing.
Zimmer seems to have the philosophy of not playing rookies much until they are ready, which I don't have a problem with if the rookie isn't clearly outplaying the veteran players. Johnson doesn't seem any better than he was in 2014 though, which isn't all that good. It doesn't seem like a huge bar to overcome, which is some reason for concern about how good Treadwell is.
Patterson hasn't played much either, but you can tell he is working hard and doing his best. As Zimmer said about Patterson playing gunner now, Patterson wants to play and contribute any way he can. Patterson plays X too. So he might get a crack at it before Treadwell does, if they do decide to use Johnson less in the near future.
Can't argue with Adam Theilen playing. All that guy does is make plays, including a great one handed catch in the most recent game.
One of the positives about Treadwell in college was his blocking ability, so that seems like a good reason to get him on the field if nothing else. Charles Johnson is only averaging 3 targets per game so far, so it's not like he would be targeted much even if he does start playing.
Zimmer seems to have the philosophy of not playing rookies much until they are ready, which I don't have a problem with if the rookie isn't clearly outplaying the veteran players. Johnson doesn't seem any better than he was in 2014 though, which isn't all that good. It doesn't seem like a huge bar to overcome, which is some reason for concern about how good Treadwell is.
Patterson hasn't played much either, but you can tell he is working hard and doing his best. As Zimmer said about Patterson playing gunner now, Patterson wants to play and contribute any way he can. Patterson plays X too. So he might get a crack at it before Treadwell does, if they do decide to use Johnson less in the near future.
Can't argue with Adam Theilen playing. All that guy does is make plays, including a great one handed catch in the most recent game.
spider321
Footballguy
Thursday interview
He says all the right things, but you can see the frustration in his face when he discusses not playing.
Looking forward to seeing what he can do when he finally gets to let some of that frustration out on the field.
...and yes, strong, I know the sky is falling if he is inactive again tonight.
He says all the right things, but you can see the frustration in his face when he discusses not playing.
Looking forward to seeing what he can do when he finally gets to let some of that frustration out on the field.
...and yes, strong, I know the sky is falling if he is inactive again tonight.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Bringing the team gatorade cups like a mad man.
