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Patriots being investigated after Colts game (1 Viewer)

Percent of NFL teams actively trying to steal play sheets?

  • 0%

    Votes: 90 33.0%
  • 25%

    Votes: 91 33.3%
  • 50%

    Votes: 19 7.0%
  • 75%

    Votes: 16 5.9%
  • 100%

    Votes: 57 20.9%

  • Total voters
    273
I can't imagine why pats fans would care one way or the other what some disgruntled whiny tools think about the team.
Yeah, right, and that explains why you have posted only 263 times in this thread. :hophead:
if I watch a 3 stooges marathon is it because I'm determined to find out what curly thinks about the pats?
It wouldn't surprise me.
http://sports.mearsonlineauctions.com/ItemImages/000042/1191b4c8-c6bf-4bf3-8c6f-bb47c18f8ac7_lg.jpeg

You can see the ball deflating as soon as it touches him.

 
Lmfao Goodell just said whether it gained a competitive advantage or not is secondary to whether it broke the rules.

Mother####er there are multiple examples THIS YEAR of this happening with other teams and you did nothing!
It's interesting how he has been known as the disciplinarian commissioner then this year it's like he's not really sure what the hell he's doing.

 
For those suggesting fairness: Dallas and Washington were penalized harshly by the league for circumventing the cap when there was no cap (strike killed the cap for a bit). If the rest of the league owners want to punish your team, it's going to happen. Both of these teams had legal recourse available to them, but both just took their unfair punishments.

My gut tells me these things:

- NFL refs were extremely lax in checking the pressure of footballs before or during an NFL game. It was likely widely accepted that your QB could play with footballs that he liked regardless of the psi reading.

- The Patriots pushed this by introducing game balls below the starting threshold that would lose a lot of psi by the time the game would play (We can all guess at the method, but I seriously doubt the league knows exactly what was done)

- A sting was likely put in play, based on an earlier game, but no one fully informed the refs exactly how to carry this out. And because they were not routinely doing their job (checking psi and logging the results), the sting got botched.

- The NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away by admitting this was a rule that wasn't really enforced. Refs did not routinely check the pressure, etc. They could have even put the Patriots (and the rest of the NFL) on notice by saying balls confiscated ended the game below stated psi levels. And this would be something the league took much more serious going forward, etc. When the league chose not to announce anything immediately, I believe they will punish the Patriots (regardless of evidence collected)

- It probably will not be fair (and likely could not stand up to a court process). The Commish (and NFL office) appear to have a vendetta in play. It could very well have to do with them feeling they "saved" the Patriots by destroying all of the Spygate tapes so they expected better from them, etc. Or it could just be that Goodell is a puppet to the rest of the owners and they refuse to let up on this.

- For all the Patriots fans, this has to suck really bad. The league has tarnished your guys image a lot with this scandal. The findings / lack of proof / etc don't really matter anymore. If the final penalties are light, the "salty haters" think they were spared again. If they are heavy, those "haters" are saying yes, this team just cheats to win.

- I am sure I will enjoy the game when it is happening, but this has soured the contest a lot for me. Vegas set this line super close. People are massively divided as to who has the better team. This should have been set up as something great to watch instead of the soap opera that it has become.
I agree with all of the three below especially.

If there is a positive out of all this maybe it's that Goodell has lost some major support in Kraft.

 
I wonder if the league doesn't need to have some sort of constitutional conference. Like where they draft a list of principles (inb4lol) or something. Gotta stop this arbitrary ad hoc administration of discipline. To much on this or next commissioner's plate. I think that might help with PR too. Like commish can hand down a penalty claiming his hands are tied, we'll look at that next constitutional conference.

Said conference must contain more than just owners.

IDK

 
Kraft was a no show at the Goodell presser, says he had other commitments. From everything I have heard he usually appeared at them in the past.

 
@GreggDoyelStar: (Part 1/2) Patriots official just told me the team has received more than 100 independent studies of deflation from colleges, high schools..

"@GreggDoyelStar: (Part 2/2) Each study showed PSI will drop 2 lbs in 15 minutes in cold, he said. Most recent study Thursday from aerospace engineer at UCLA.
Did any of those studies suggest why the Colt's balls didn't lose pressure?

 
@GreggDoyelStar: (Part 1/2) Patriots official just told me the team has received more than 100 independent studies of deflation from colleges, high schools..

"@GreggDoyelStar: (Part 2/2) Each study showed PSI will drop 2 lbs in 15 minutes in cold, he said. Most recent study Thursday from aerospace engineer at UCLA.
Did any of those studies suggest why the Colt's balls didn't lose pressure?
We hadn't heard that in like 2 pages. Thanks

 
@GreggDoyelStar: (Part 1/2) Patriots official just told me the team has received more than 100 independent studies of deflation from colleges, high schools..

"@GreggDoyelStar: (Part 2/2) Each study showed PSI will drop 2 lbs in 15 minutes in cold, he said. Most recent study Thursday from aerospace engineer at UCLA.
Did any of those studies suggest why the Colt's balls didn't lose pressure?
John Harbaugh was pumping them up on the sideline.

 
@GreggDoyelStar: (Part 1/2) Patriots official just told me the team has received more than 100 independent studies of deflation from colleges, high schools..

"@GreggDoyelStar: (Part 2/2) Each study showed PSI will drop 2 lbs in 15 minutes in cold, he said. Most recent study Thursday from aerospace engineer at UCLA.
Did any of those studies suggest why the Colt's balls didn't lose pressure?
can you produce any proof that the colts balls were even measured?

 
@GreggDoyelStar: (Part 1/2) Patriots official just told me the team has received more than 100 independent studies of deflation from colleges, high schools..

"@GreggDoyelStar: (Part 2/2) Each study showed PSI will drop 2 lbs in 15 minutes in cold, he said. Most recent study Thursday from aerospace engineer at UCLA.
Did any of those studies suggest why the Colt's balls didn't lose pressure?
So they didnt measure the Patriots balls pregame but they did measure the Colts balls? Do tell...
 
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My take on the attorney was that :

An attorney (s) hired by billionaire owner Robert Kraft would never advise him to come out as strongly as he did in defense of the players, coaches and organization IF he thought there was any chance of the Pats being found guilty. If the attorney thought there was a possibility of them being found guilty he would have advised him to lay low and let the process play out.

The fact that Kraft challenged the league so vehemently speaks volumes to me as to what Kraft's attorneys think is in play going forward. My opinion is only for the Kraft situation and not every case being tried. These attorneys that Kraft is listening to are not fools.

I would be hesitant to say the same about the league's front office given their track record.
Though this is a valid point, attorneys also should be aware of the psychological impact of confidence in "testimony". When dealing with incomplete sets of information or topics that are relatively ambiguous attorneys who are well versed in forensic/psychological research will advise their clients to speak with great confidence - whether they are 100% convinced in the accuracy of their position ... or when they are not. In the end speaking with confidence is not as strongly correlated with accuracy as one might think ... but intuitively the public is is swayed by the confidence. Since deflategate has been fed almost totally by incomplete data and ambiguous story plots and hugely impacted by pressure from the media and the general public opinion, the situation becomes completely vulnerable to this confidence-accuracy bias.

I'm not saying that you are wrong in your position, and I'm sure there are many legal landmines for defense attorneys to navigate but sometimes the best defense is a strong offense and the savvy attorneys will and should be using the psychology of the moment. Heck it is a fantastic move in this case as BB, Kraft and Brady all have the reputation of being more or less reserved and regulated. If it was someone like Ditka going off it would be par for the course, but when BB or Kraft go off it somehow seems more meaningful, and if that can be manipulated it can be a powerful tool in the court of public opinion. Then again, I might be giving them too much credit for creative tactics. Sometimes it just is what it is.

 
KingPrawn said:
It's Friday. I expect nothing less than 6 pages today.
this thread has averaged just over 10 pages a day.why are you projecting a 40% decrease?
Because most of those pages were early on. It's slowed down lately. Only 3 pages today and that's with Goodell's press conference.
that's not true.but you were acurate about today, just not sure why...
Really? It was a tongue-in-cheek comment. Are we really going to argue how many pages were posted per day? Let's talk about more important things, the Patriots possible cheating.

 
Serious question. Did they say they didn't measure pats balls or they did but didn't record it?
think the latest leak, or whatever, claims they didn't measure

I didn't see goodell's presser and haven't heard an official word
Blandino said they were measured but the results aren't recorded anywhere. It wasn't a leak, he said it to the press directly.
It is basically a pass or fail. By being ruled under inflated the balls were under 12.5 psi. How much, we will never know. Could be .25 psi under or 10 psi under (not possible as they would be flat but just for the sake of argument) Same goes for over inflation.

So now the Patriots could argue that the balls started at the legal pressure and were only under by a small amount, say they were at 11.25 psi. No one knows. All this means is the amount of psi at which they were actually under is out of play for both the NFL and the Pats as an argument.

 
KingPrawn said:
Workhorse said:
@GreggDoyelStar: (Part 1/2) Patriots official just told me the team has received more than 100 independent studies of deflation from colleges, high schools..

"@GreggDoyelStar: (Part 2/2) Each study showed PSI will drop 2 lbs in 15 minutes in cold, he said. Most recent study Thursday from aerospace engineer at UCLA.
Did any of those studies suggest why the Colt's balls didn't lose pressure?
If NE's balls were filled to 12.5 and the Colts to 13.5, who is to say they did not lose psi and still stayed within range?

 
KingPrawn said:
Workhorse said:
@GreggDoyelStar: (Part 1/2) Patriots official just told me the team has received more than 100 independent studies of deflation from colleges, high schools..

"@GreggDoyelStar: (Part 2/2) Each study showed PSI will drop 2 lbs in 15 minutes in cold, he said. Most recent study Thursday from aerospace engineer at UCLA.
Did any of those studies suggest why the Colt's balls didn't lose pressure?
If NE's balls were filled to 12.5 and the Colts to 13.5, who is to say they did not lose psi and still stayed within range?
Bingo. I think that has been many of us' argument from page one.

 
My take on the attorney was that :

An attorney (s) hired by billionaire owner Robert Kraft would never advise him to come out as strongly as he did in defense of the players, coaches and organization IF he thought there was any chance of the Pats being found guilty. If the attorney thought there was a possibility of them being found guilty he would have advised him to lay low and let the process play out.

The fact that Kraft challenged the league so vehemently speaks volumes to me as to what Kraft's attorneys think is in play going forward. My opinion is only for the Kraft situation and not every case being tried. These attorneys that Kraft is listening to are not fools.

I would be hesitant to say the same about the league's front office given their track record.
Though this is a valid point, attorneys also should be aware of the psychological impact of confidence in "testimony". When dealing with incomplete sets of information or topics that are relatively ambiguous attorneys who are well versed in forensic/psychological research will advise their clients to speak with great confidence - whether they are 100% convinced in the accuracy of their position ... or when they are not. In the end speaking with confidence is not as strongly correlated with accuracy as one might think ... but intuitively the public is is swayed by the confidence. Since deflategate has been fed almost totally by incomplete data and ambiguous story plots and hugely impacted by pressure from the media and the general public opinion, the situation becomes completely vulnerable to this confidence-accuracy bias.

I'm not saying that you are wrong in your position, and I'm sure there are many legal landmines for defense attorneys to navigate but sometimes the best defense is a strong offense and the savvy attorneys will and should be using the psychology of the moment. Heck it is a fantastic move in this case as BB, Kraft and Brady all have the reputation of being more or less reserved and regulated. If it was someone like Ditka going off it would be par for the course, but when BB or Kraft go off it somehow seems more meaningful, and if that can be manipulated it can be a powerful tool in the court of public opinion. Then again, I might be giving them too much credit for creative tactics. Sometimes it just is what it is.
This is different than a regular trial though b/c Kraft's reputation is worth a million times more than someone accused of a serious crime.

 
For those suggesting fairness: Dallas and Washington were penalized harshly by the league for circumventing the cap when there was no cap (strike killed the cap for a bit). If the rest of the league owners want to punish your team, it's going to happen. Both of these teams had legal recourse available to them, but both just took their unfair punishments.

My gut tells me these things:

- NFL refs were extremely lax in checking the pressure of footballs before or during an NFL game. It was likely widely accepted that your QB could play with footballs that he liked regardless of the psi reading.

- The Patriots pushed this by introducing game balls below the starting threshold that would lose a lot of psi by the time the game would play (We can all guess at the method, but I seriously doubt the league knows exactly what was done)

- A sting was likely put in play, based on an earlier game, but no one fully informed the refs exactly how to carry this out. And because they were not routinely doing their job (checking psi and logging the results), the sting got botched.

- The NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away by admitting this was a rule that wasn't really enforced. Refs did not routinely check the pressure, etc. They could have even put the Patriots (and the rest of the NFL) on notice by saying balls confiscated ended the game below stated psi levels. And this would be something the league took much more serious going forward, etc. When the league chose not to announce anything immediately, I believe they will punish the Patriots (regardless of evidence collected)

- It probably will not be fair (and likely could not stand up to a court process). The Commish (and NFL office) appear to have a vendetta in play. It could very well have to do with them feeling they "saved" the Patriots by destroying all of the Spygate tapes so they expected better from them, etc. Or it could just be that Goodell is a puppet to the rest of the owners and they refuse to let up on this.

- For all the Patriots fans, this has to suck really bad. The league has tarnished your guys image a lot with this scandal. The findings / lack of proof / etc don't really matter anymore. If the final penalties are light, the "salty haters" think they were spared again. If they are heavy, those "haters" are saying yes, this team just cheats to win.

- I am sure I will enjoy the game when it is happening, but this has soured the contest a lot for me. Vegas set this line super close. People are massively divided as to who has the better team. This should have been set up as something great to watch instead of the soap opera that it has become.
The "souring" comment...imagine if this "scandal" were not an issue/topic. The entire universe would be talking all week + about how Lynch doesn't talk to the media. :wall:

 
KingPrawn said:
Workhorse said:
@GreggDoyelStar: (Part 1/2) Patriots official just told me the team has received more than 100 independent studies of deflation from colleges, high schools..

"@GreggDoyelStar: (Part 2/2) Each study showed PSI will drop 2 lbs in 15 minutes in cold, he said. Most recent study Thursday from aerospace engineer at UCLA.
Did any of those studies suggest why the Colt's balls didn't lose pressure?
If NE's balls were filled to 12.5 and the Colts to 13.5, who is to say they did not lose psi and still stayed within range?
Bingo. I think that has been many of us' argument from page one.
If the refs recorded the psi of each and every ball...this whole thing would have been a slam dunk days ago.

 
KingPrawn said:
It's Friday. I expect nothing less than 6 pages today.
this thread has averaged just over 10 pages a day.why are you projecting a 40% decrease?
Because most of those pages were early on. It's slowed down lately. Only 3 pages today and that's with Goodell's press conference.
that's not true.but you were acurate about today, just not sure why...
Really? It was a tongue-in-cheek comment. Are we really going to argue how many pages were posted per day? Let's talk about more important things, the Patriots possible cheating.
sorry you took it that way. wasn't trying to argue, i just find the amount of posts on this subject kind of fascinating.

 
Bad mo. You commented on a post that said all test showed that the balls dropped by 2 psi in 15 minutes. If that's the case then no the colts balls could not have passed. Even set at the highest passable limit of 13.5, if the gas laws all suggest that it would drop 2 psi then the colts would have weighed in under the limit and failed the halftime I inspection too.

 
KingPrawn said:
Workhorse said:
@GreggDoyelStar: (Part 1/2) Patriots official just told me the team has received more than 100 independent studies of deflation from colleges, high schools..

"@GreggDoyelStar: (Part 2/2) Each study showed PSI will drop 2 lbs in 15 minutes in cold, he said. Most recent study Thursday from aerospace engineer at UCLA.
Did any of those studies suggest why the Colt's balls didn't lose pressure?
If NE's balls were filled to 12.5 and the Colts to 13.5, who is to say they did not lose psi and still stayed within range?
According to the tweet cited, the balls lost 2 lbs. So the Colts balls would still end up at 11.5 (or even less if you take in to consideration the % of psi lost).

 
KingPrawn said:
It's Friday. I expect nothing less than 6 pages today.
this thread has averaged just over 10 pages a day.why are you projecting a 40% decrease?
Because most of those pages were early on. It's slowed down lately. Only 3 pages today and that's with Goodell's press conference.
that's not true.but you were acurate about today, just not sure why...
Really? It was a tongue-in-cheek comment. Are we really going to argue how many pages were posted per day? Let's talk about more important things, the Patriots possible cheating.
sorry you took it that way.wasn't trying to argue, i just find the amount of posts on this subject kind of fascinating.
No problem. I do too. That's why the tongue-in-cheek comment. Now let's get back to the Patriots possible CHEATING!

 
Bad mo. You commented on a post that said all test showed that the balls dropped by 2 psi in 15 minutes. If that's the case then no the colts balls could not have passed. Even set at the highest passable limit of 13.5, if the gas laws all suggest that it would drop 2 psi then the colts would have weighed in under the limit and failed the halftime I inspection too.
But the Colts were using MAGIC BALLS! that lost pressure at a lesser rate than the Patriots balls. You know, because the Patriots have special balls that are better than everybody else in the NFL.

 
Bad mo. You commented on a post that said all test showed that the balls dropped by 2 psi in 15 minutes. If that's the case then no the colts balls could not have passed. Even set at the highest passable limit of 13.5, if the gas laws all suggest that it would drop 2 psi then the colts would have weighed in under the limit and failed the halftime I inspection too.
But the Colts were using MAGIC BALLS! that lost pressure at a lesser rate than the Patriots balls. You know, because the Patriots have special balls that are better than everybody else in the NFL.
More like the Pats prep process temporarily elevated psi. The argument that will never end is what was the Pats motive. Texture and tackiness? Or subverting the pre-game pressure test.

edit: I keep thinking of this old comedy/western where some bumbling gunfighter is trying to draw his gun and his pants fall down. The league trying to find some ballboy bleeding off air from the footballs while standing at a urinal is akin to that.

 
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Having trouble finding a full transcript on my phone but I don't recall reading any mention by Blandino stating theythey tested the Colts footballs at halftime. is it possible they were even bad enough at this that they didn't even do so?

 
Having trouble finding a full transcript on my phone but I don't recall reading any mention by Blandino stating theythey tested the Colts footballs at halftime. is it possible they were even bad enough at this that they didn't even do so?
Assuming it wasn't a sting, that makes perfect sense. Refs inspect/inflate/deflate/pass/fail all balls pre-game. During first half Colts complain to refs that's Pats balls feel low. Refs check Pats balls (the ones being complained about) at halftime and re-inflate or replace as needed. Refs report Pats' under inflation as required by rule. A simple commonsense explanation

 
Can't find a transcript either, but this article has some extended excerpts.

Here's a fun one:

* On changing the 12.5 to 13.5 PSI level:

Blandino: We really rely on the experts in the football world to give us that number, Wilson. That's where that spec comes from. I feel like we will review that with Wilson and the competition committee to look if do we need to have range and what should that acceptable range be. So that's something that will be discussed.
Notice what we're seeing here? Nothing about fairness. Nothing about a level playing field, or how a pound less would affect the integrity of the game. Just a manufacturers recommendation.

edit: Laughing because you don't know what else to do on three. Readyyyyy... Break!

 
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Just a side note that has nothing to do with this but I found interesting. Didn't see a thread on this started much less one that is 126 pages long.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/football/2015/01/29/seahawks-safety-earl-thomas-nfl-tested-me-for-hgh/#30153101=0

Earl Thomas was tested for HGH this past week. Interesting that it didn't receive more pub compared to the deflatgate debacle. In a way it's similar. Both have allegations of cheating. Both have a history of alleged cheating. Yet very little publicity on it. I would think Thomas using HGH to recover quicker to play in the game has a much bigger impact on the game compared to whether the Patriot's footballs were inflated/deflated to some number.

Maybe we need more scientist to way in on this. Where is that I'm the Scientist guy when you need him?

 
Can't find a transcript either, but this article has some extended excerpts.

Here's a fun one:

* On changing the 12.5 to 13.5 PSI level:

Blandino: We really rely on the experts in the football world to give us that number, Wilson. That's where that spec comes from. I feel like we will review that with Wilson and the competition committee to look if do we need to have range and what should that acceptable range be. So that's something that will be discussed.
Notice what we're seeing here? Nothing about fairness. Nothing about a level playing field, or how a pound less would affect the integrity of the game. Just a manufacturers recommendation.

edit: Laughing because you don't know what else to do on three. Readyyyyy... Break!
But isn't that manufacturer's recommendation written in to the rule book? Where they came up with that range is irrelevant if it is written in the rule book and the Patriots intentionally violated it.

Right back at ya

 
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Can't find a transcript either, but this article has some extended excerpts.

Here's a fun one:

* On changing the 12.5 to 13.5 PSI level:

Blandino: We really rely on the experts in the football world to give us that number, Wilson. That's where that spec comes from. I feel like we will review that with Wilson and the competition committee to look if do we need to have range and what should that acceptable range be. So that's something that will be discussed.
Notice what we're seeing here? Nothing about fairness. Nothing about a level playing field, or how a pound less would affect the integrity of the game. Just a manufacturers recommendation.

edit: Laughing because you don't know what else to do on three. Readyyyyy... Break!
I'm with the mattress police.

There are no tags on these mattresses

 
Pretty funny that two weeks after Brady got all bishy with Harbaugh about reading the rule book we've got Pats fans arguing that it doesn't matter.

 

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