Patriots being investigated after Colts game (3 Viewers)

[the moops]

Pretty funny that two weeks after Brady got all bishy with Harbaugh about reading the rule book we've got Pats fans arguing that it doesn't matter.

Where did the Pats not follow the rule book in this instance?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Pretty funny that two weeks after Brady got all bishy with Harbaugh about reading the rule book we've got Pats fans arguing that it doesn't matter.

To this extent?

If they're going to use the rule book in the most literal way possible when it benefits them, they probably shouldn't whine too much when other teams find places where they're cutting corners.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Pretty funny that two weeks after Brady got all bishy with Harbaugh about reading the rule book we've got Pats fans arguing that it doesn't matter.

Where did the Pats not follow the rule book in this instance?

Yes, yes -- carry on. You'll probably manage to convince each other in another 125 pages or so.

 

[Bojang0301]

I think the only recourse Pats fans have is to dig up every story in the history of the NFL and point to that as them being legitimate. Then turn their attention to Marshawn Lynch's avoidance of the media and name call him from there. That's the only logical solution to deflategate.

 

[mbuehner]

Or simply point out that theres no scandal and 9th grade physics classics explain everything adequately.

 

[Tool]

Pretty funny that two weeks after Brady got all bishy with Harbaugh about reading the rule book we've got Pats fans arguing that it doesn't matter.

Where did the Pats not follow the rule book in this instance?

Yes, yes -- carry on. You'll probably manage to convince each other in another 125 pages or so.

I wish i was so easily amused.

 

[Hooper31]

This story is such a waste of time. I think its more of a non-story. I don't understand why NE fans won't let the thread die.

 

[SteelerMurf]

Or simply point out that theres no scandal and 9th grade physics classics explain everything adequately.

Except when physics only effect Pats balls. Lol. And that physics class assumes a fixed container not a rubber one that expands and contracts. This is not a 9th grade problem

 

[Insomniac]

Bad mo. You commented on a post that said all test showed that the balls dropped by 2 psi in 15 minutes. If that's the case then no the colts balls could not have passed. Even set at the highest passable limit of 13.5, if the gas laws all suggest that it would drop 2 psi then the colts would have weighed in under the limit and failed the halftime I inspection too.

Not if they were stored at a cooler temperature before they were measured.

I assume the home team's equipment is stored in a room in the stadium. Does the road team put their equipment in the stadium overnight or do they keep it in a truck and bring the footballs directly to the refs room? If that's the case the temperature of the air in the Colts footballs would be close to the outdoor temperature when the PSI was measured so it would not change. I don't know that's what actually happened, but it seems to be a better explanation than the Colts balls are not subject to the Ideal Gas Law.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

STOP ....JUST STOP

 

[mbuehner]

Or simply point out that theres no scandal and 9th grade physics classics explain everything adequately.

Except when physics only effect Pats balls. Lol. And that physics class assumes a fixed container not a rubber one that expands and contracts. This is not a 9th grade problem

If the Pats balls started at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5, does that not entirely explain all the evidence available.

 

[Morton Muffley]

STOP ....JUST STOP

For the record, I am stopping.

 

[Morton Muffley]

STOP ....JUST STOP

For the record, I am stopping.

Doh!

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I'm with the mattress police.


There are no tags on these mattresses

Storm trooper: Let me see your identification.

Obi-Wan: [with a small wave of his hand] You don't need to see his identification.

Storm trooper: We don't need to see his identification.

Obi-Wan: These aren't the mattress tags you're looking for.

Storm trooper: These aren't the mattress tags we're looking for.

Obi-Wan: He can go about his business.

Storm trooper: You can go about your business.

Obi-Wan: Move along.

Storm trooper: Move along... move along.

 

[SteelerMurf]

Or simply point out that theres no scandal and 9th grade physics classics explain everything adequately.

Except when physics only effect Pats balls. Lol. And that physics class assumes a fixed container not a rubber one that expands and contracts. This is not a 9th grade problem

If the Pats balls started at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5, does that not entirely explain all the evidence available.

Highly unlikely. First of all most reports is they dropped 2 psi, so that would have dropped the Colts to 11.5 below the minimum. 2nd, why did none of the 24 balls used in the second half drop? None of them, drop in pressure?

3rd, using physics, the footballs in Green Bay last week would have looked like shriveled up raisins in the sub 20 degree weather compared to the warm air in NE at 51. Imagine how blown up the balls would get in the 100 degree fFlorida sun, where the temperature of the ball reaches 110 degrees?

a 20 degree drop from room temp to 51 degrees is nothing compared to the extremes that NFL balls see during the year, yet somehow it dropped nearly 15% of it's pressure for a measly 20 deg drop in temperature. Using that rate, imagine what the balls would have looked like in GB with a 50 degree drop in temp?

There is no physics at work here

 

[12punch]

This story is such a waste of time. I think its more of a non-story. I don't understand why NE fans won't let the thread die.

lolz

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

They have no records of any measurements so why are people still clinging to Mort's report of a 2 PSI drop which was refuted directly by the NFL?

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

For those suggesting fairness: Dallas and Washington were penalized harshly by the league for circumventing the cap when there was no cap (strike killed the cap for a bit). If the rest of the league owners want to punish your team, it's going to happen. Both of these teams had legal recourse available to them, but both just took their unfair punishments.

My gut tells me these things:

- NFL refs were extremely lax in checking the pressure of footballs before or during an NFL game. It was likely widely accepted that your QB could play with footballs that he liked regardless of the psi reading.

- The Patriots pushed this by introducing game balls below the starting threshold that would lose a lot of psi by the time the game would play (We can all guess at the method, but I seriously doubt the league knows exactly what was done)

- A sting was likely put in play, based on an earlier game, but no one fully informed the refs exactly how to carry this out. And because they were not routinely doing their job (checking psi and logging the results), the sting got botched.

- The NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away by admitting this was a rule that wasn't really enforced. Refs did not routinely check the pressure, etc. They could have even put the Patriots (and the rest of the NFL) on notice by saying balls confiscated ended the game below stated psi levels. And this would be something the league took much more serious going forward, etc. When the league chose not to announce anything immediately, I believe they will punish the Patriots (regardless of evidence collected)

- It probably will not be fair (and likely could not stand up to a court process). The Commish (and NFL office) appear to have a vendetta in play. It could very well have to do with them feeling they "saved" the Patriots by destroying all of the Spygate tapes so they expected better from them, etc. Or it could just be that Goodell is a puppet to the rest of the owners and they refuse to let up on this.

- For all the Patriots fans, this has to suck really bad. The league has tarnished your guys image a lot with this scandal. The findings / lack of proof / etc don't really matter anymore. If the final penalties are light, the "salty haters" think they were spared again. If they are heavy, those "haters" are saying yes, this team just cheats to win.

- I am sure I will enjoy the game when it is happening, but this has soured the contest a lot for me. Vegas set this line super close. People are massively divided as to who has the better team. This should have been set up as something great to watch instead of the soap opera that it has become.

[SIZE=medium]I commented on your earlier posts (not that u care) where I felt you, like so many others, were 100% intent on burying NE based on rumor, perceived reputation and bias. Your latest post is definitely a step in the right direction in terms of at least considering the possibility that NE didn’t really do anything sinister.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Part I[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but allow me to quibble on a few points and give my opinion on what I believe may have transpired.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I agree the NFL was probably lax in checking the balls and I don’t think Anderson even used a gauge. Like you, I think the league pretty much let each team play with the balls they wanted as long as they were close and felt right. This was not a problem for anyone until John Harbaugh became incensed at NE pushing the envelope with their formations and decided to get back at the Patriots by tipping off the Colts to a potential problem. The Colts having a history of losing and then whining to the league about it were only too happy to oblige. Both the Ravens and the Colts weren’t interested in preventing NE from using underinflated balls, no they couldn’t beat them on the field and wanted to setup a sting in order to hurt them as much as possible. So the Colts out of fear the refs might tip NE off never even gave the refs a heads up. This allowed the Colts to set the “trap”, but seriously undermined the validity of that trap.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Luck is on record as saying he likes the ball hard anyway and knowing they were setting a trap and the Indy balls were inflated to 13.5+ and maybe even done outdoors. NE probably submitted their balls at 12.5-13.5 (corrected)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Here is where we differ a bit on what might have happened from there. You believe the NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away and at first glance that might “appear” to be true, but on closer inspection there are at least 3 reasons why they couldn’t simply make it go away. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]1. Spygate[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]2. The botched Ray Rice investigation[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]3. Mike Kensil.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Who the hell is Mike Kensil? From Barstool.com[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]"He is the former President of the Jets. He was there when Belichick turned in his resignation to come to the Pats. He was there during Spygate. His friends will tell you that he obsesses over his hatred of the Patriots. That he swore 1 day he’s get back at Belichick for leaving him the lurch and sending the Jets into a downward spiral of ineptitude and ruining his career.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Yes it is this Mike Kensil who is now Dir. of Football Operations at National Football League who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. I’ve even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]So even though there really isn’t anything here and the league desperately wanted to make it go away they couldn’t. Not with Spygate and all the suspicions that they acted too quickly and swept some things under the rug, not with the botched Ray Rice investigation where they actually did try to sweep it under the rug, and finally, not with a butt hurt vindictive Kensil determined to get back at NE driving the investigation.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Part II to come[/SIZE]

 

[mbuehner]

Or simply point out that theres no scandal and 9th grade physics classics explain everything adequately.

Except when physics only effect Pats balls. Lol. And that physics class assumes a fixed container not a rubber one that expands and contracts. This is not a 9th grade problem

If the Pats balls started at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5, does that not entirely explain all the evidence available.

Highly unlikely. First of all most reports is they dropped 2 psi, so that would have dropped the Colts to 11.5 below the minimum. 2nd, why did none of the 24 balls used in the second half drop? None of them, drop in pressure?

3rd, using physics, the footballs in Green Bay last week would have looked like shriveled up raisins in the sub 20 degree weather compared to the warm air in NE at 51. Imagine how blown up the balls would get in the 100 degree fFlorida sun, where the temperature of the ball reaches 110 degrees?

a 20 degree drop from room temp to 51 degrees is nothing compared to the extremes that NFL balls see during the year, yet somehow it dropped nearly 15% of it's pressure for a measly 20 deg drop in temperature. Using that rate, imagine what the balls would have looked like in GB with a 50 degree drop in temp?

There is no physics at work here

1 leak said 2psi, another said around 1.

And you sound like a fool arguing with the laws of nature. Numerous people have reproduced the drop of pressure with footballs. Nobody has not found a drop. Cuz, you know, science.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

For those suggesting fairness: Dallas and Washington were penalized harshly by the league for circumventing the cap when there was no cap (strike killed the cap for a bit). If the rest of the league owners want to punish your team, it's going to happen. Both of these teams had legal recourse available to them, but both just took their unfair punishments.

My gut tells me these things:

- NFL refs were extremely lax in checking the pressure of footballs before or during an NFL game. It was likely widely accepted that your QB could play with footballs that he liked regardless of the psi reading.

- The Patriots pushed this by introducing game balls below the starting threshold that would lose a lot of psi by the time the game would play (We can all guess at the method, but I seriously doubt the league knows exactly what was done)

- A sting was likely put in play, based on an earlier game, but no one fully informed the refs exactly how to carry this out. And because they were not routinely doing their job (checking psi and logging the results), the sting got botched.

- The NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away by admitting this was a rule that wasn't really enforced. Refs did not routinely check the pressure, etc. They could have even put the Patriots (and the rest of the NFL) on notice by saying balls confiscated ended the game below stated psi levels. And this would be something the league took much more serious going forward, etc. When the league chose not to announce anything immediately, I believe they will punish the Patriots (regardless of evidence collected)

- It probably will not be fair (and likely could not stand up to a court process). The Commish (and NFL office) appear to have a vendetta in play. It could very well have to do with them feeling they "saved" the Patriots by destroying all of the Spygate tapes so they expected better from them, etc. Or it could just be that Goodell is a puppet to the rest of the owners and they refuse to let up on this.

- For all the Patriots fans, this has to suck really bad. The league has tarnished your guys image a lot with this scandal. The findings / lack of proof / etc don't really matter anymore. If the final penalties are light, the "salty haters" think they were spared again. If they are heavy, those "haters" are saying yes, this team just cheats to win.

- I am sure I will enjoy the game when it is happening, but this has soured the contest a lot for me. Vegas set this line super close. People are massively divided as to who has the better team. This should have been set up as something great to watch instead of the soap opera that it has become.

[SIZE=medium]I commented on your earlier posts (not that u care) where I felt you, like so many others, were 100% intent on burying NE based on rumor, perceived reputation and bias. Your latest post is definitely a step in the right direction in terms of at least considering the possibility that NE didn’t really do anything sinister.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Part I[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but allow me to quibble on a few points and give my opinion on what I believe may have transpired.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I agree the NFL was probably lax in checking the balls and I don’t think Anderson even used a gauge. Like you, I think the league pretty much let each team play with the balls they wanted as long as they were close and felt right. This was not a problem for anyone until John Harbaugh became incensed at NE pushing the envelope with their formations and decided to get back at the Patriots by tipping off the Colts to a potential problem. The Colts having a history of losing and then whining to the league about it were only too happy to oblige. Both the Ravens and the Colts weren’t interested in preventing NE from using underinflated balls, no they couldn’t beat them on the field and wanted to setup a sting in order to hurt them as much as possible. So the Colts out of fear the refs might tip NE off never even gave the refs a heads up. This allowed the Colts to set the “trap”, but seriously undermined the validity of that trap.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Luck is on record as saying he likes the ball hard anyway and knowing they were setting a trap and the Indy balls were inflated to 13.5+ and maybe even done outdoors. NE probably submitted their balls at 13-13.5.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Here is where we differ a bit on what might have happened from there. You believe the NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away and at first glance that might “appear” to be true, but on closer inspection there are at least 3 reasons why they couldn’t simply make it go away. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]1. Spygate[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]2. The botched Ray Rice investigation[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]3. Mike Kensil.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Who the hell is Mike Kensil? From Barstool.com[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]"He is the former President of the Jets. He was there when Belichick turned in his resignation to come to the Pats. He was there during Spygate. His friends will tell you that he obsesses over his hatred of the Patriots. That he swore 1 day he’s get back at Belichick for leaving him the lurch and sending the Jets into a downward spiral of ineptitude and ruining his career.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Yes it is this Mike Kensil who is now Dir. of Football Operations at National Football League who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. I’ve even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]So even though there really isn’t anything here and the league desperately wanted to make it go away they couldn’t. Not with Spygate and all the suspicions that they acted too quickly and swept some things under the rug, not with the botched Ray Rice investigation where they actually did try to sweep it under the rug, and finally, not with a butt hurt vindictive Kensil determined to get back at NE driving the investigation.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Part II to come[/SIZE]

Part II

[SIZE=medium]I agree this sux for the Patriots (and their fans) who I believe will eventually be vindicated. I don’t think NE did ANYTHING wrong and I do not think the league will penalize them at all. NE didn’t heat the balls pre game and submitting them at 12.5 or 13 psi isn’t a violation any more than GB submitting balls at 14.5 is a penalty. It won’t erase all the damage that’s been done but it will lessen it quite a bit; except for the jealous haters who are gonna hate no matter what.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Whether it is this year or next, Mike Kensil will be fired or asked to leave. I firmly believe he is the primary reason the league couldn't quickly dismiss this as the BS it is and he is the RAT responsible for the leaks; for that alone he should be fired. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]There are also a lot of people on television and on the internet who are going to have a hard time walking back their careless and slanderous comments regarding BB & Brady. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]It really sux for everyone that all this happened and ruined the build up to what sets up to be an awesome game.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Paybacks a #####, 34-17 NE[/SIZE]

 

[Bayhawks]

For those suggesting fairness: Dallas and Washington were penalized harshly by the league for circumventing the cap when there was no cap (strike killed the cap for a bit). If the rest of the league owners want to punish your team, it's going to happen. Both of these teams had legal recourse available to them, but both just took their unfair punishments.

My gut tells me these things:

- NFL refs were extremely lax in checking the pressure of footballs before or during an NFL game. It was likely widely accepted that your QB could play with footballs that he liked regardless of the psi reading.

- The Patriots pushed this by introducing game balls below the starting threshold that would lose a lot of psi by the time the game would play (We can all guess at the method, but I seriously doubt the league knows exactly what was done)

- A sting was likely put in play, based on an earlier game, but no one fully informed the refs exactly how to carry this out. And because they were not routinely doing their job (checking psi and logging the results), the sting got botched.

- The NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away by admitting this was a rule that wasn't really enforced. Refs did not routinely check the pressure, etc. They could have even put the Patriots (and the rest of the NFL) on notice by saying balls confiscated ended the game below stated psi levels. And this would be something the league took much more serious going forward, etc. When the league chose not to announce anything immediately, I believe they will punish the Patriots (regardless of evidence collected)

- It probably will not be fair (and likely could not stand up to a court process). The Commish (and NFL office) appear to have a vendetta in play. It could very well have to do with them feeling they "saved" the Patriots by destroying all of the Spygate tapes so they expected better from them, etc. Or it could just be that Goodell is a puppet to the rest of the owners and they refuse to let up on this.

- For all the Patriots fans, this has to suck really bad. The league has tarnished your guys image a lot with this scandal. The findings / lack of proof / etc don't really matter anymore. If the final penalties are light, the "salty haters" think they were spared again. If they are heavy, those "haters" are saying yes, this team just cheats to win.

- I am sure I will enjoy the game when it is happening, but this has soured the contest a lot for me. Vegas set this line super close. People are massively divided as to who has the better team. This should have been set up as something great to watch instead of the soap opera that it has become.

I commented on your earlier posts (not that u care) where I felt you, like so many others, were 100% intent on burying NE based on rumor, perceived reputation and bias. Your latest post is definitely a step in the right direction in terms of at least considering the possibility that NE didn’t really do anything sinister.

Part I

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but allow me to quibble on a few points and give my opinion on what I believe may have transpired.

I agree the NFL was probably lax in checking the balls and I don’t think Anderson even used a gauge. Like you, I think the league pretty much let each team play with the balls they wanted as long as they were close and felt right. This was not a problem for anyone until John Harbaugh became incensed at NE pushing the envelope with their formations and decided to get back at the Patriots by tipping off the Colts to a potential problem. The Colts having a history of losing and then whining to the league about it were only too happy to oblige. Both the Ravens and the Colts weren’t interested in preventing NE from using underinflated balls, no they couldn’t beat them on the field and wanted to setup a sting in order to hurt them as much as possible. So the Colts out of fear the refs might tip NE off never even gave the refs a heads up. This allowed the Colts to set the “trap”, but seriously undermined the validity of that trap.

Luck is on record as saying he likes the ball hard anyway and knowing they were setting a trap and the Indy balls were inflated to 13.5+ and maybe even done outdoors. NE probably submitted their balls at 13-13.5.

Here is where we differ a bit on what might have happened from there. You believe the NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away and at first glance that might “appear” to be true, but on closer inspection there are at least 3 reasons why they couldn’t simply make it go away.

1. Spygate

2. The botched Ray Rice investigation

3. Mike Kensil.

Who the hell is Mike Kensil? From Barstool.com

"He is the former President of the Jets. He was there when Belichick turned in his resignation to come to the Pats. He was there during Spygate. His friends will tell you that he obsesses over his hatred of the Patriots. That he swore 1 day he’s get back at Belichick for leaving him the lurch and sending the Jets into a downward spiral of ineptitude and ruining his career.

Yes it is this Mike Kensil who is now Dir. of Football Operations at National Football League who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. I’ve even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate."

So even though there really isn’t anything here and the league desperately wanted to make it go away they couldn’t. Not with Spygate and all the suspicions that they acted too quickly and swept some things under the rug, not with the botched Ray Rice investigation where they actually did try to sweep it under the rug, and finally, not with a butt hurt vindictive Kensil determined to get back at NE driving the investigation.

Part II to come

For those suggesting fairness: Dallas and Washington were penalized harshly by the league for circumventing the cap when there was no cap (strike killed the cap for a bit). If the rest of the league owners want to punish your team, it's going to happen. Both of these teams had legal recourse available to them, but both just took their unfair punishments.

My gut tells me these things:

- NFL refs were extremely lax in checking the pressure of footballs before or during an NFL game. It was likely widely accepted that your QB could play with footballs that he liked regardless of the psi reading.

- The Patriots pushed this by introducing game balls below the starting threshold that would lose a lot of psi by the time the game would play (We can all guess at the method, but I seriously doubt the league knows exactly what was done)

- A sting was likely put in play, based on an earlier game, but no one fully informed the refs exactly how to carry this out. And because they were not routinely doing their job (checking psi and logging the results), the sting got botched.

- The NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away by admitting this was a rule that wasn't really enforced. Refs did not routinely check the pressure, etc. They could have even put the Patriots (and the rest of the NFL) on notice by saying balls confiscated ended the game below stated psi levels. And this would be something the league took much more serious going forward, etc. When the league chose not to announce anything immediately, I believe they will punish the Patriots (regardless of evidence collected)

- It probably will not be fair (and likely could not stand up to a court process). The Commish (and NFL office) appear to have a vendetta in play. It could very well have to do with them feeling they "saved" the Patriots by destroying all of the Spygate tapes so they expected better from them, etc. Or it could just be that Goodell is a puppet to the rest of the owners and they refuse to let up on this.

- For all the Patriots fans, this has to suck really bad. The league has tarnished your guys image a lot with this scandal. The findings / lack of proof / etc don't really matter anymore. If the final penalties are light, the "salty haters" think they were spared again. If they are heavy, those "haters" are saying yes, this team just cheats to win.

- I am sure I will enjoy the game when it is happening, but this has soured the contest a lot for me. Vegas set this line super close. People are massively divided as to who has the better team. This should have been set up as something great to watch instead of the soap opera that it has become.

I commented on your earlier posts (not that u care) where I felt you, like so many others, were 100% intent on burying NE based on rumor, perceived reputation and bias. Your latest post is definitely a step in the right direction in terms of at least considering the possibility that NE didn’t really do anything sinister.

Part I

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but allow me to quibble on a few points and give my opinion on what I believe may have transpired.

I agree the NFL was probably lax in checking the balls and I don’t think Anderson even used a gauge. Like you, I think the league pretty much let each team play with the balls they wanted as long as they were close and felt right. This was not a problem for anyone until John Harbaugh became incensed at NE pushing the envelope with their formations and decided to get back at the Patriots by tipping off the Colts to a potential problem. The Colts having a history of losing and then whining to the league about it were only too happy to oblige. Both the Ravens and the Colts weren’t interested in preventing NE from using underinflated balls, no they couldn’t beat them on the field and wanted to setup a sting in order to hurt them as much as possible. So the Colts out of fear the refs might tip NE off never even gave the refs a heads up. This allowed the Colts to set the “trap”, but seriously undermined the validity of that trap.

Luck is on record as saying he likes the ball hard anyway and knowing they were setting a trap and the Indy balls were inflated to 13.5+ and maybe even done outdoors. NE probably submitted their balls at 13-13.5.

Here is where we differ a bit on what might have happened from there. You believe the NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away and at first glance that might “appear” to be true, but on closer inspection there are at least 3 reasons why they couldn’t simply make it go away.

1. Spygate

2. The botched Ray Rice investigation

3. Mike Kensil.

Who the hell is Mike Kensil? From Barstool.com

"He is the former President of the Jets. He was there when Belichick turned in his resignation to come to the Pats. He was there during Spygate. His friends will tell you that he obsesses over his hatred of the Patriots. That he swore 1 day he’s get back at Belichick for leaving him the lurch and sending the Jets into a downward spiral of ineptitude and ruining his career.

Yes it is this Mike Kensil who is now Dir. of Football Operations at National Football League who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. I’ve even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate."

So even though there really isn’t anything here and the league desperately wanted to make it go away they couldn’t. Not with Spygate and all the suspicions that they acted too quickly and swept some things under the rug, not with the botched Ray Rice investigation where they actually did try to sweep it under the rug, and finally, not with a butt hurt vindictive Kensil determined to get back at NE driving the investigation.

Part II to come

I still think the drop in air pressure was a result of where the NE balls were inflated, then the cooler temps/rain outdoors causing the drop.That being said, you seem to be willing to overlook ( or ignore) some information to make Part I of your theory work.

The Colts were trying to set up the Pats, so they didn't tell the refs before the game (hence the failure to use a gauge to check the balls & record this data). Unfortunately, there was a link posted (somewhere in the previous 125 pages) that reported the Colts DID bring this to the refs attention before the game.

You sa y the Pats probably submitted their balls at 13-13.5. This would make the pressure drop less likely to be due to only atmospheric conditions, AND it contradicts what BBhimself said, which is that they give them to the refs, and if they are under 12.5, they tell the refs to make them 12.5.

I realize y ou think this is some grand conspiracy against your Pats, but it could just be a case of other teams thinking the Pats were cheating, and being wrong. Manipulating facts & ignoring info available will not change that.

 

[espnespn]

Or simply point out that theres no scandal and 9th grade physics classics explain everything adequately.

Except when physics only effect Pats balls. Lol. And that physics class assumes a fixed container not a rubber one that expands and contracts. This is not a 9th grade problem

If the Pats balls started at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5, does that not entirely explain all the evidence available.

Highly unlikely. First of all most reports is they dropped 2 psi, so that would have dropped the Colts to 11.5 below the minimum. 2nd, why did none of the 24 balls used in the second half drop? None of them, drop in pressure?

3rd, using physics, the footballs in Green Bay last week would have looked like shriveled up raisins in the sub 20 degree weather compared to the warm air in NE at 51. Imagine how blown up the balls would get in the 100 degree fFlorida sun, where the temperature of the ball reaches 110 degrees?

a 20 degree drop from room temp to 51 degrees is nothing compared to the extremes that NFL balls see during the year, yet somehow it dropped nearly 15% of it's pressure for a measly 20 deg drop in temperature. Using that rate, imagine what the balls would have looked like in GB with a 50 degree drop in temp?

There is no physics at work here

Do you also believe the earth is flat?

 

[Hooper31]

This story is such a waste of time. I think its more of a non-story. I don't understand why NE fans won't let the thread die.

lolz

Top 10 posters in this thread.

12punch 267 shader 234 General Tso 196 mbuehner 188 Run It Up 180 Old Smiley 176 ROCKET 169 moleculo 152 Deamon 148 GoBirds 124

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

For those suggesting fairness: Dallas and Washington were penalized harshly by the league for circumventing the cap when there was no cap (strike killed the cap for a bit). If the rest of the league owners want to punish your team, it's going to happen. Both of these teams had legal recourse available to them, but both just took their unfair punishments.

My gut tells me these things:

- NFL refs were extremely lax in checking the pressure of footballs before or during an NFL game. It was likely widely accepted that your QB could play with footballs that he liked regardless of the psi reading.

- The Patriots pushed this by introducing game balls below the starting threshold that would lose a lot of psi by the time the game would play (We can all guess at the method, but I seriously doubt the league knows exactly what was done)

- A sting was likely put in play, based on an earlier game, but no one fully informed the refs exactly how to carry this out. And because they were not routinely doing their job (checking psi and logging the results), the sting got botched.

- The NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away by admitting this was a rule that wasn't really enforced. Refs did not routinely check the pressure, etc. They could have even put the Patriots (and the rest of the NFL) on notice by saying balls confiscated ended the game below stated psi levels. And this would be something the league took much more serious going forward, etc. When the league chose not to announce anything immediately, I believe they will punish the Patriots (regardless of evidence collected)

- It probably will not be fair (and likely could not stand up to a court process). The Commish (and NFL office) appear to have a vendetta in play. It could very well have to do with them feeling they "saved" the Patriots by destroying all of the Spygate tapes so they expected better from them, etc. Or it could just be that Goodell is a puppet to the rest of the owners and they refuse to let up on this.

- For all the Patriots fans, this has to suck really bad. The league has tarnished your guys image a lot with this scandal. The findings / lack of proof / etc don't really matter anymore. If the final penalties are light, the "salty haters" think they were spared again. If they are heavy, those "haters" are saying yes, this team just cheats to win.

- I am sure I will enjoy the game when it is happening, but this has soured the contest a lot for me. Vegas set this line super close. People are massively divided as to who has the better team. This should have been set up as something great to watch instead of the soap opera that it has become.

I commented on your earlier posts (not that u care) where I felt you, like so many others, were 100% intent on burying NE based on rumor, perceived reputation and bias. Your latest post is definitely a step in the right direction in terms of at least considering the possibility that NE didn’t really do anything sinister.

Part I

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but allow me to quibble on a few points and give my opinion on what I believe may have transpired.

I agree the NFL was probably lax in checking the balls and I don’t think Anderson even used a gauge. Like you, I think the league pretty much let each team play with the balls they wanted as long as they were close and felt right. This was not a problem for anyone until John Harbaugh became incensed at NE pushing the envelope with their formations and decided to get back at the Patriots by tipping off the Colts to a potential problem. The Colts having a history of losing and then whining to the league about it were only too happy to oblige. Both the Ravens and the Colts weren’t interested in preventing NE from using underinflated balls, no they couldn’t beat them on the field and wanted to setup a sting in order to hurt them as much as possible. So the Colts out of fear the refs might tip NE off never even gave the refs a heads up. This allowed the Colts to set the “trap”, but seriously undermined the validity of that trap.

Luck is on record as saying he likes the ball hard anyway and knowing they were setting a trap and the Indy balls were inflated to 13.5+ and maybe even done outdoors. NE probably submitted their balls at 13-13.5.

Here is where we differ a bit on what might have happened from there. You believe the NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away and at first glance that might “appear” to be true, but on closer inspection there are at least 3 reasons why they couldn’t simply make it go away.

1. Spygate

2. The botched Ray Rice investigation

3. Mike Kensil.

Who the hell is Mike Kensil? From Barstool.com

"He is the former President of the Jets. He was there when Belichick turned in his resignation to come to the Pats. He was there during Spygate. His friends will tell you that he obsesses over his hatred of the Patriots. That he swore 1 day he’s get back at Belichick for leaving him the lurch and sending the Jets into a downward spiral of ineptitude and ruining his career.

Yes it is this Mike Kensil who is now Dir. of Football Operations at National Football League who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. I’ve even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate."

So even though there really isn’t anything here and the league desperately wanted to make it go away they couldn’t. Not with Spygate and all the suspicions that they acted too quickly and swept some things under the rug, not with the botched Ray Rice investigation where they actually did try to sweep it under the rug, and finally, not with a butt hurt vindictive Kensil determined to get back at NE driving the investigation.

Part II to come

For those suggesting fairness: Dallas and Washington were penalized harshly by the league for circumventing the cap when there was no cap (strike killed the cap for a bit). If the rest of the league owners want to punish your team, it's going to happen. Both of these teams had legal recourse available to them, but both just took their unfair punishments.

My gut tells me these things:

- NFL refs were extremely lax in checking the pressure of footballs before or during an NFL game. It was likely widely accepted that your QB could play with footballs that he liked regardless of the psi reading.

- The Patriots pushed this by introducing game balls below the starting threshold that would lose a lot of psi by the time the game would play (We can all guess at the method, but I seriously doubt the league knows exactly what was done)

- A sting was likely put in play, based on an earlier game, but no one fully informed the refs exactly how to carry this out. And because they were not routinely doing their job (checking psi and logging the results), the sting got botched.

- The NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away by admitting this was a rule that wasn't really enforced. Refs did not routinely check the pressure, etc. They could have even put the Patriots (and the rest of the NFL) on notice by saying balls confiscated ended the game below stated psi levels. And this would be something the league took much more serious going forward, etc. When the league chose not to announce anything immediately, I believe they will punish the Patriots (regardless of evidence collected)

- It probably will not be fair (and likely could not stand up to a court process). The Commish (and NFL office) appear to have a vendetta in play. It could very well have to do with them feeling they "saved" the Patriots by destroying all of the Spygate tapes so they expected better from them, etc. Or it could just be that Goodell is a puppet to the rest of the owners and they refuse to let up on this.

- For all the Patriots fans, this has to suck really bad. The league has tarnished your guys image a lot with this scandal. The findings / lack of proof / etc don't really matter anymore. If the final penalties are light, the "salty haters" think they were spared again. If they are heavy, those "haters" are saying yes, this team just cheats to win.

- I am sure I will enjoy the game when it is happening, but this has soured the contest a lot for me. Vegas set this line super close. People are massively divided as to who has the better team. This should have been set up as something great to watch instead of the soap opera that it has become.

I commented on your earlier posts (not that u care) where I felt you, like so many others, were 100% intent on burying NE based on rumor, perceived reputation and bias. Your latest post is definitely a step in the right direction in terms of at least considering the possibility that NE didn’t really do anything sinister.

Part I

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but allow me to quibble on a few points and give my opinion on what I believe may have transpired.

I agree the NFL was probably lax in checking the balls and I don’t think Anderson even used a gauge. Like you, I think the league pretty much let each team play with the balls they wanted as long as they were close and felt right. This was not a problem for anyone until John Harbaugh became incensed at NE pushing the envelope with their formations and decided to get back at the Patriots by tipping off the Colts to a potential problem. The Colts having a history of losing and then whining to the league about it were only too happy to oblige. Both the Ravens and the Colts weren’t interested in preventing NE from using underinflated balls, no they couldn’t beat them on the field and wanted to setup a sting in order to hurt them as much as possible. So the Colts out of fear the refs might tip NE off never even gave the refs a heads up. This allowed the Colts to set the “trap”, but seriously undermined the validity of that trap.

Luck is on record as saying he likes the ball hard anyway and knowing they were setting a trap and the Indy balls were inflated to 13.5+ and maybe even done outdoors. NE probably submitted their balls at 13-13.5.

Here is where we differ a bit on what might have happened from there. You believe the NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away and at first glance that might “appear” to be true, but on closer inspection there are at least 3 reasons why they couldn’t simply make it go away.

1. Spygate

2. The botched Ray Rice investigation

3. Mike Kensil.

Who the hell is Mike Kensil? From Barstool.com

"He is the former President of the Jets. He was there when Belichick turned in his resignation to come to the Pats. He was there during Spygate. His friends will tell you that he obsesses over his hatred of the Patriots. That he swore 1 day he’s get back at Belichick for leaving him the lurch and sending the Jets into a downward spiral of ineptitude and ruining his career.

Yes it is this Mike Kensil who is now Dir. of Football Operations at National Football League who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. I’ve even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate."

So even though there really isn’t anything here and the league desperately wanted to make it go away they couldn’t. Not with Spygate and all the suspicions that they acted too quickly and swept some things under the rug, not with the botched Ray Rice investigation where they actually did try to sweep it under the rug, and finally, not with a butt hurt vindictive Kensil determined to get back at NE driving the investigation.

Part II to come

I still think the drop in air pressure was a result of where the NE balls were inflated, then the cooler temps/rain outdoors causing the drop.That being said, you seem to be willing to overlook ( or ignore) some information to make Part I of your theory work.

The Colts were trying to set up the Pats, so they didn't tell the refs before the game (hence the failure to use a gauge to check the balls & record this data). Unfortunately, there was a link posted (somewhere in the previous 125 pages) that reported the Colts DID bring this to the refs attention before the game.

You sa y the Pats probably submitted their balls at 13-13.5. This would make the pressure drop less likely to be due to only atmospheric conditions, AND it contradicts what BBhimself said, which is that they give them to the refs, and if they are under 12.5, they tell the refs to make them 12.5.

I realize y ou think this is some grand conspiracy against your Pats, but it could just be a case of other teams thinking the Pats were cheating, and being wrong. Manipulating facts & ignoring info available will not change that.

Thanks, u r right, that was a typo on my part; I meant to say the Pats probably submitted their fballs at 12.5-13.5.

You say it was "reported" that the Colts told the refs ahead of time, maybe this is true, but if it is true why wouldn't the referees have been more careful and logged the ball check results? So the refs knew ahead of time that the balls would be checked at halftime and they didn't bother to record the results of the pre game check? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, do you think it makes sense?

I never claimed it was a grand conspiracy, the butt hurt Ravens & Colts and Kensil is not what I would call a "grand" conspiracy.

I did state from the beginning that this is my opinion and I could be wrong, but I don't believe I have intentionally manipulated facts or ignored any info that is widely thought to be true.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

I am a dolphins fan. I despise the Patriots. I am a salty, jealous hater.

That said, I do at this point believe that this is a ridiculous accusation.

One conspiracy theory angle that I cant seen to get out of my mind though is the following (which also lacks any basis - just a theory):

The football world knows that the Patriots bend the rules and cut corners. Call it cheating if you want. However you want to describe it. They also know that much of what they do cannot be proven. So, they look for a minor infraction that they think they can prove, and run with it.

Very similar to the reason that Al Capone died in a prison cell after being convicted for tax evasion. They didnt want him for tax evasion - they wanted him for bootlegging, but they couldnt get him for it. So, they got him for what they could get him for - tax evasion.

Would anyone be shocked to read in 20 years that the Pats actually did film the Rams practices? That Spygate actually was what the uninformed mass public (incorrectly?) generally believes that it was? That there are other skeletons in the closet that we never even heard about? Why were those tapes destroyed?

Again - just a baseless theory from an admittedly jealous salty hater. Just seems like a lot of smoke around this team. It will not shock me if one day we learn that that there was a fire hidden somewhere behind all that smoke.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

I am a dolphins fan. I despise the Patriots. I am a salty, jealous hater.

That said, I do at this point believe that this is a ridiculous accusation.

One conspiracy theory angle that I cant seen to get out of my mind though is the following (which also lacks any basis - just a theory):

The football world knows that the Patriots bend the rules and cut corners. Call it cheating if you want. However you want to describe it. They also know that much of what they do cannot be proven. So, they look for a minor infraction that they think they can prove, and run with it.

Very similar to the reason that Al Capone died in a prison cell after being convicted for tax evasion. They didnt want him for tax evasion - they wanted him for bootlegging, but they couldnt get him for it. So, they got him for what they could get him for - tax evasion.

Would anyone be shocked to read in 20 years that the Pats actually did film the Rams practices? That Spygate actually was what the uninformed mass public (incorrectly?) generally believes that it was? That there are other skeletons in the closet that we never even heard about? Why were those tapes destroyed?

Again - just a baseless theory from an admittedly jealous salty hater. Just seems like a lot of smoke around this team. It will not shock me if one day we learn that that there was a fire hidden somewhere behind all that smoke.

Everyone has their own pov, but I think much\most of the "smoke" is a wide dislike of BB and a whole lot of jealousy toward NE because they win every fn year. I really grew to dislike the Cowboys and Niners when they were winning every year; now I couldn't care less about them. I don't like Bufalo, but I can remember rooting for them in the SB.

Nobody cares about the teams that are losing every year, it is only the teams that are winning that are relevant (in that regard) and NE has had that target for going on 13 years now. Fr instance, imho, a contributing factor is everything in NY is exaggerated since it is the media capital of the world. Everything in NY is supposedly bigger better etc and that goes for the NY - Boston resentment regarding the Pats. BB left NY at the altar and look at what has happened since, nothing but misery for the Jets and over the moon success for NE. NY hates BB and his golden boy Brady with the white hot fire of a thousand suns and that will never change.

 

[Tenacious]

I am a dolphins fan. I despise the Patriots. I am a salty, jealous hater.

Let me stop you right there...

That alone is enough for me to disregard everything else you said, but I read everything else you said and it was complete hogwash.

Perhaps the Patriots look for advantages like everybody else, but I don't buy that they cut corners any more than your average team out there. So I'm only left with the impression that your hatred for the organization clouds your judgement.

 

[SteelerMurf]

Or simply point out that theres no scandal and 9th grade physics classics explain everything adequately.

Except when physics only effect Pats balls. Lol. And that physics class assumes a fixed container not a rubber one that expands and contracts. This is not a 9th grade problem

If the Pats balls started at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5, does that not entirely explain all the evidence available.

Highly unlikely. First of all most reports is they dropped 2 psi, so that would have dropped the Colts to 11.5 below the minimum. 2nd, why did none of the 24 balls used in the second half drop? None of them, drop in pressure?

3rd, using physics, the footballs in Green Bay last week would have looked like shriveled up raisins in the sub 20 degree weather compared to the warm air in NE at 51. Imagine how blown up the balls would get in the 100 degree fFlorida sun, where the temperature of the ball reaches 110 degrees?

a 20 degree drop from room temp to 51 degrees is nothing compared to the extremes that NFL balls see during the year, yet somehow it dropped nearly 15% of it's pressure for a measly 20 deg drop in temperature. Using that rate, imagine what the balls would have looked like in GB with a 50 degree drop in temp?

There is no physics at work here

1 leak said 2psi, another said around 1.And you sound like a fool arguing with the laws of nature. Numerous people have reproduced the drop of pressure with footballs. Nobody has not found a drop. Cuz, you know, science.

So if pressure is certain to drop. Tell that to The colts. And tell that to the balls that did not drop pressure (24 of them). In second half

Dolp

 

[ChiefD]

Montana calls Brady a liar:

"They shouldn't have the rule anyway," he said. "If you want to see the game played at the best, everybody has a different grip, everybody likes a different feel."

It's not a question of how he grips it. It's a question of inflation ratios. A 7.4" hand can't grip an 12.5psi football. That's my point.

 

[SteelerMurf]

Or simply point out that theres no scandal and 9th grade physics classics explain everything adequately.

Except when physics only effect Pats balls. Lol. And that physics class assumes a fixed container not a rubber one that expands and contracts. This is not a 9th grade problem

If the Pats balls started at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5, does that not entirely explain all the evidence available.

Highly unlikely. First of all most reports is they dropped 2 psi, so that would have dropped the Colts to 11.5 below the minimum. 2nd, why did none of the 24 balls used in the second half drop? None of them, drop in pressure?

3rd, using physics, the footballs in Green Bay last week would have looked like shriveled up raisins in the sub 20 degree weather compared to the warm air in NE at 51. Imagine how blown up the balls would get in the 100 degree fFlorida sun, where the temperature of the ball reaches 110 degrees?

a 20 degree drop from room temp to 51 degrees is nothing compared to the extremes that NFL balls see during the year, yet somehow it dropped nearly 15% of it's pressure for a measly 20 deg drop in temperature. Using that rate, imagine what the balls would have looked like in GB with a 50 degree drop in temp?

There is no physics at work here

Do you also believe the earth is flat?

Round in Indy and flat in NE. They have 2 sets of atmospheric physics at work why not earths ground

 

[Tenacious]

Or simply point out that theres no scandal and 9th grade physics classics explain everything adequately.

Except when physics only effect Pats balls. Lol. And that physics class assumes a fixed container not a rubber one that expands and contracts. This is not a 9th grade problem

If the Pats balls started at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5, does that not entirely explain all the evidence available.

Highly unlikely. First of all most reports is they dropped 2 psi, so that would have dropped the Colts to 11.5 below the minimum. 2nd, why did none of the 24 balls used in the second half drop? None of them, drop in pressure?

3rd, using physics, the footballs in Green Bay last week would have looked like shriveled up raisins in the sub 20 degree weather compared to the warm air in NE at 51. Imagine how blown up the balls would get in the 100 degree fFlorida sun, where the temperature of the ball reaches 110 degrees?

a 20 degree drop from room temp to 51 degrees is nothing compared to the extremes that NFL balls see during the year, yet somehow it dropped nearly 15% of it's pressure for a measly 20 deg drop in temperature. Using that rate, imagine what the balls would have looked like in GB with a 50 degree drop in temp?

There is no physics at work here

1 leak said 2psi, another said around 1.And you sound like a fool arguing with the laws of nature. Numerous people have reproduced the drop of pressure with footballs. Nobody has not found a drop. Cuz, you know, science.

So if pressure is certain to drop. Tell that to The colts. And tell that to the balls that did not drop pressure (24 of them). In second halfDolp

If you are going to participate in the discussion, at least try to keep up with the discussion.We don't know that the Colts balls didn't drop pressure. For all we know, they did, but remained within range, perhaps they started off at a higher pressure then the Patriots balls did, which would account for this.

This has only been said about a hundred times in this thread, again try to keep up.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

I am a dolphins fan. I despise the Patriots. I am a salty, jealous hater.

Let me stop you right there...

That alone is enough for me to disregard everything else you said, but I read everything else you said and it was complete hogwash.

Perhaps the Patriots look for advantages like everybody else, but I don't buy that they cut corners any more than your average team out there. So I'm only left with the impression that your hatred for the organization clouds your judgement.

So based upon that logic, do you also disregard the opinions of anyone who admits to be a Patriots fan? I was not being confrontational - just presenting a theory. You on the other hand found it necessary to make it confrontational for some reason.

None of what I said was clouded judgement. Just a theory. No different than the multitude of other theories that have been presented by both sides over the last 6200 posts. I find it odd that the NFL is going after the Patriots for what seems to be such a baseless and stupid reason. We have that in common. I just have trouble buying the idea that it is simply because the whole world hates Bill Belichick for no good reason other than his smug personality.

 

[SteelerMurf]

Or simply point out that theres no scandal and 9th grade physics classics explain everything adequately.

Except when physics only effect Pats balls. Lol. And that physics class assumes a fixed container not a rubber one that expands and contracts. This is not a 9th grade problem

If the Pats balls started at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5, does that not entirely explain all the evidence available.

Highly unlikely. First of all most reports is they dropped 2 psi, so that would have dropped the Colts to 11.5 below the minimum. 2nd, why did none of the 24 balls used in the second half drop? None of them, drop in pressure?

3rd, using physics, the footballs in Green Bay last week would have looked like shriveled up raisins in the sub 20 degree weather compared to the warm air in NE at 51. Imagine how blown up the balls would get in the 100 degree fFlorida sun, where the temperature of the ball reaches 110 degrees?

a 20 degree drop from room temp to 51 degrees is nothing compared to the extremes that NFL balls see during the year, yet somehow it dropped nearly 15% of it's pressure for a measly 20 deg drop in temperature. Using that rate, imagine what the balls would have looked like in GB with a 50 degree drop in temp?

There is no physics at work here

1 leak said 2psi, another said around 1.And you sound like a fool arguing with the laws of nature. Numerous people have reproduced the drop of pressure with footballs. Nobody has not found a drop. Cuz, you know, science.

So if pressure is certain to drop. Tell that to The colts. And tell that to the balls that did not drop pressure (24 of them). In second halfDolp

If you are going to participate in the discussion, at least try to keep up with the discussion.We don't know that the Colts balls didn't drop pressure. For all we know, they did, but remained within range, perhaps they started off at a higher pressure then the Patriots balls did, which would account for this.

This has only been said about a hundred times in this thread, again try to keep up.

Translation "your in denial"

 

[mbuehner]

Or simply point out that theres no scandal and 9th grade physics classics explain everything adequately.

Except when physics only effect Pats balls. Lol. And that physics class assumes a fixed container not a rubber one that expands and contracts. This is not a 9th grade problem

If the Pats balls started at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5, does that not entirely explain all the evidence available.

Highly unlikely. First of all most reports is they dropped 2 psi, so that would have dropped the Colts to 11.5 below the minimum. 2nd, why did none of the 24 balls used in the second half drop? None of them, drop in pressure?

3rd, using physics, the footballs in Green Bay last week would have looked like shriveled up raisins in the sub 20 degree weather compared to the warm air in NE at 51. Imagine how blown up the balls would get in the 100 degree fFlorida sun, where the temperature of the ball reaches 110 degrees?

a 20 degree drop from room temp to 51 degrees is nothing compared to the extremes that NFL balls see during the year, yet somehow it dropped nearly 15% of it's pressure for a measly 20 deg drop in temperature. Using that rate, imagine what the balls would have looked like in GB with a 50 degree drop in temp?

There is no physics at work here

1 leak said 2psi, another said around 1.And you sound like a fool arguing with the laws of nature. Numerous people have reproduced the drop of pressure with footballs. Nobody has not found a drop. Cuz, you know, science.

So if pressure is certain to drop. Tell that to The colts. And tell that to the balls that did not drop pressure (24 of them). In second halfDolp

Huh. So what were the Colts balls measured at pregame?

 

[Bayhawks]

For those suggesting fairness: Dallas and Washington were penalized harshly by the league for circumventing the cap when there was no cap (strike killed the cap for a bit). If the rest of the league owners want to punish your team, it's going to happen. Both of these teams had legal recourse available to them, but both just took their unfair punishments.

My gut tells me these things:

- NFL refs were extremely lax in checking the pressure of footballs before or during an NFL game. It was likely widely accepted that your QB could play with footballs that he liked regardless of the psi reading.

- The Patriots pushed this by introducing game balls below the starting threshold that would lose a lot of psi by the time the game would play (We can all guess at the method, but I seriously doubt the league knows exactly what was done)

- A sting was likely put in play, based on an earlier game, but no one fully informed the refs exactly how to carry this out. And because they were not routinely doing their job (checking psi and logging the results), the sting got botched.

- The NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away by admitting this was a rule that wasn't really enforced. Refs did not routinely check the pressure, etc. They could have even put the Patriots (and the rest of the NFL) on notice by saying balls confiscated ended the game below stated psi levels. And this would be something the league took much more serious going forward, etc. When the league chose not to announce anything immediately, I believe they will punish the Patriots (regardless of evidence collected)

- It probably will not be fair (and likely could not stand up to a court process). The Commish (and NFL office) appear to have a vendetta in play. It could very well have to do with them feeling they "saved" the Patriots by destroying all of the Spygate tapes so they expected better from them, etc. Or it could just be that Goodell is a puppet to the rest of the owners and they refuse to let up on this.

- For all the Patriots fans, this has to suck really bad. The league has tarnished your guys image a lot with this scandal. The findings / lack of proof / etc don't really matter anymore. If the final penalties are light, the "salty haters" think they were spared again. If they are heavy, those "haters" are saying yes, this team just cheats to win.

- I am sure I will enjoy the game when it is happening, but this has soured the contest a lot for me. Vegas set this line super close. People are massively divided as to who has the better team. This should have been set up as something great to watch instead of the soap opera that it has become.

I commented on your earlier posts (not that u care) where I felt you, like so many others, were 100% intent on burying NE based on rumor, perceived reputation and bias. Your latest post is definitely a step in the right direction in terms of at least considering the possibility that NE didn’t really do anything sinister.

Part I

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but allow me to quibble on a few points and give my opinion on what I believe may have transpired.

I agree the NFL was probably lax in checking the balls and I don’t think Anderson even used a gauge. Like you, I think the league pretty much let each team play with the balls they wanted as long as they were close and felt right. This was not a problem for anyone until John Harbaugh became incensed at NE pushing the envelope with their formations and decided to get back at the Patriots by tipping off the Colts to a potential problem. The Colts having a history of losing and then whining to the league about it were only too happy to oblige. Both the Ravens and the Colts weren’t interested in preventing NE from using underinflated balls, no they couldn’t beat them on the field and wanted to setup a sting in order to hurt them as much as possible. So the Colts out of fear the refs might tip NE off never even gave the refs a heads up. This allowed the Colts to set the “trap”, but seriously undermined the validity of that trap.

Luck is on record as saying he likes the ball hard anyway and knowing they were setting a trap and the Indy balls were inflated to 13.5+ and maybe even done outdoors. NE probably submitted their balls at 13-13.5.

Here is where we differ a bit on what might have happened from there. You believe the NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away and at first glance that might “appear” to be true, but on closer inspection there are at least 3 reasons why they couldn’t simply make it go away.

1. Spygate

2. The botched Ray Rice investigation

3. Mike Kensil.

Who the hell is Mike Kensil? From Barstool.com

"He is the former President of the Jets. He was there when Belichick turned in his resignation to come to the Pats. He was there during Spygate. His friends will tell you that he obsesses over his hatred of the Patriots. That he swore 1 day he’s get back at Belichick for leaving him the lurch and sending the Jets into a downward spiral of ineptitude and ruining his career.

Yes it is this Mike Kensil who is now Dir. of Football Operations at National Football League who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. I’ve even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate."

So even though there really isn’t anything here and the league desperately wanted to make it go away they couldn’t. Not with Spygate and all the suspicions that they acted too quickly and swept some things under the rug, not with the botched Ray Rice investigation where they actually did try to sweep it under the rug, and finally, not with a butt hurt vindictive Kensil determined to get back at NE driving the investigation.

Part II to come

For those suggesting fairness: Dallas and Washington were penalized harshly by the league for circumventing the cap when there was no cap (strike killed the cap for a bit). If the rest of the league owners want to punish your team, it's going to happen. Both of these teams had legal recourse available to them, but both just took their unfair punishments.

My gut tells me these things:

- NFL refs were extremely lax in checking the pressure of footballs before or during an NFL game. It was likely widely accepted that your QB could play with footballs that he liked regardless of the psi reading.

- The Patriots pushed this by introducing game balls below the starting threshold that would lose a lot of psi by the time the game would play (We can all guess at the method, but I seriously doubt the league knows exactly what was done)

- A sting was likely put in play, based on an earlier game, but no one fully informed the refs exactly how to carry this out. And because they were not routinely doing their job (checking psi and logging the results), the sting got botched.

- The NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away by admitting this was a rule that wasn't really enforced. Refs did not routinely check the pressure, etc. They could have even put the Patriots (and the rest of the NFL) on notice by saying balls confiscated ended the game below stated psi levels. And this would be something the league took much more serious going forward, etc. When the league chose not to announce anything immediately, I believe they will punish the Patriots (regardless of evidence collected)

- It probably will not be fair (and likely could not stand up to a court process). The Commish (and NFL office) appear to have a vendetta in play. It could very well have to do with them feeling they "saved" the Patriots by destroying all of the Spygate tapes so they expected better from them, etc. Or it could just be that Goodell is a puppet to the rest of the owners and they refuse to let up on this.

- For all the Patriots fans, this has to suck really bad. The league has tarnished your guys image a lot with this scandal. The findings / lack of proof / etc don't really matter anymore. If the final penalties are light, the "salty haters" think they were spared again. If they are heavy, those "haters" are saying yes, this team just cheats to win.

- I am sure I will enjoy the game when it is happening, but this has soured the contest a lot for me. Vegas set this line super close. People are massively divided as to who has the better team. This should have been set up as something great to watch instead of the soap opera that it has become.

I commented on your earlier posts (not that u care) where I felt you, like so many others, were 100% intent on burying NE based on rumor, perceived reputation and bias. Your latest post is definitely a step in the right direction in terms of at least considering the possibility that NE didn’t really do anything sinister.

Part I

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but allow me to quibble on a few points and give my opinion on what I believe may have transpired.

I agree the NFL was probably lax in checking the balls and I don’t think Anderson even used a gauge. Like you, I think the league pretty much let each team play with the balls they wanted as long as they were close and felt right. This was not a problem for anyone until John Harbaugh became incensed at NE pushing the envelope with their formations and decided to get back at the Patriots by tipping off the Colts to a potential problem. The Colts having a history of losing and then whining to the league about it were only too happy to oblige. Both the Ravens and the Colts weren’t interested in preventing NE from using underinflated balls, no they couldn’t beat them on the field and wanted to setup a sting in order to hurt them as much as possible. So the Colts out of fear the refs might tip NE off never even gave the refs a heads up. This allowed the Colts to set the “trap”, but seriously undermined the validity of that trap.

Luck is on record as saying he likes the ball hard anyway and knowing they were setting a trap and the Indy balls were inflated to 13.5+ and maybe even done outdoors. NE probably submitted their balls at 13-13.5.

Here is where we differ a bit on what might have happened from there. You believe the NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away and at first glance that might “appear” to be true, but on closer inspection there are at least 3 reasons why they couldn’t simply make it go away.

1. Spygate

2. The botched Ray Rice investigation

3. Mike Kensil.

Who the hell is Mike Kensil? From Barstool.com

"He is the former President of the Jets. He was there when Belichick turned in his resignation to come to the Pats. He was there during Spygate. His friends will tell you that he obsesses over his hatred of the Patriots. That he swore 1 day he’s get back at Belichick for leaving him the lurch and sending the Jets into a downward spiral of ineptitude and ruining his career.

Yes it is this Mike Kensil who is now Dir. of Football Operations at National Football League who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. I’ve even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate."

So even though there really isn’t anything here and the league desperately wanted to make it go away they couldn’t. Not with Spygate and all the suspicions that they acted too quickly and swept some things under the rug, not with the botched Ray Rice investigation where they actually did try to sweep it under the rug, and finally, not with a butt hurt vindictive Kensil determined to get back at NE driving the investigation.

Part II to come

I still think the drop in air pressure was a result of where the NE balls were inflated, then the cooler temps/rain outdoors causing the drop.That being said, you seem to be willing to overlook ( or ignore) some information to make Part I of your theory work.

The Colts were trying to set up the Pats, so they didn't tell the refs before the game (hence the failure to use a gauge to check the balls & record this data). Unfortunately, there was a link posted (somewhere in the previous 125 pages) that reported the Colts DID bring this to the refs attention before the game.

You sa y the Pats probably submitted their balls at 13-13.5. This would make the pressure drop less likely to be due to only atmospheric conditions, AND it contradicts what BBhimself said, which is that they give them to the refs, and if they are under 12.5, they tell the refs to make them 12.5.

I realize y ou think this is some grand conspiracy against your Pats, but it could just be a case of other teams thinking the Pats were cheating, and being wrong. Manipulating facts & ignoring info available will not change that.

Thanks, u r right, that was a typo on my part; I meant to say the Pats probably submitted their fballs at 12.5-13.5.

You say it was "reported" that the Colts told the refs ahead of time, maybe this is true, but if it is true why wouldn't the referees have been more careful and logged the ball check results? So the refs knew ahead of time that the balls would be checked at halftime and they didn't bother to record the results of the pre game check? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, do you think it makes sense?

I never claimed it was a grand conspiracy, the butt hurt Ravens & Colts and Kensil is not what I would call a "grand" conspiracy.

I did state from the beginning that this is my opinion and I could be wrong, but I don't believe I have intentionally manipulated facts or ignored any info that is widely thought to be true.

I can understand typos-hell, I double-quoted your post in my reply.

Butt-hurt ravens, butt-hurt Kensil, whiny Colts, sting operation; the use/belief in these things would (IMO) add up to a conspiracy belief. If you object to the word grand, then I will withdraw it.

As far as the report; it's in this thread, somewhere, but I'm not trying to search through 126 pages to find it. Basically, it said the issue of the suspicion of under-inflated balls was brought up by the Colts in a normal pre-game type of meeting teams have with officials. From what I recall, there wasn't any report of checking the balls again at half-time; that seemed to come about after the Brady INT & the Colts re-iterating their belief that hte football was under-inflated.

Again, IF this was some kind of sting/conspiracy; the refs WOULD HAVE used a gauge (each time the measured the balls), and they WOULD HAVE recorded the information.

That kind of act (when it's outside their normal practice) might indicate some kind of pre-planned sting/conspiracy. The absence of that act seems (IMO) to indicate that this is a case of the Colts believing (after their regular-season game, and then during/after the AFCC) that the Pats were cheating. IMO, that belief isn't accurate. The fact that it is the Pats, who don't have the best reputation (spygate, games with the injury report, unusual formations, etc) around the league has made it blow up more than it would have if we were talking about the Jags, Browns, Raiders, Redskins, etc.

 

[SteelerMurf]

Or simply point out that theres no scandal and 9th grade physics classics explain everything adequately.

Except when physics only effect Pats balls. Lol. And that physics class assumes a fixed container not a rubber one that expands and contracts. This is not a 9th grade problem

If the Pats balls started at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5, does that not entirely explain all the evidence available.

Highly unlikely. First of all most reports is they dropped 2 psi, so that would have dropped the Colts to 11.5 below the minimum. 2nd, why did none of the 24 balls used in the second half drop? None of them, drop in pressure?

3rd, using physics, the footballs in Green Bay last week would have looked like shriveled up raisins in the sub 20 degree weather compared to the warm air in NE at 51. Imagine how blown up the balls would get in the 100 degree fFlorida sun, where the temperature of the ball reaches 110 degrees?

a 20 degree drop from room temp to 51 degrees is nothing compared to the extremes that NFL balls see during the year, yet somehow it dropped nearly 15% of it's pressure for a measly 20 deg drop in temperature. Using that rate, imagine what the balls would have looked like in GB with a 50 degree drop in temp?

There is no physics at work here

1 leak said 2psi, another said around 1.And you sound like a fool arguing with the laws of nature. Numerous people have reproduced the drop of pressure with footballs. Nobody has not found a drop. Cuz, you know, science.

So if pressure is certain to drop. Tell that to The colts. And tell that to the balls that did not drop pressure (24 of them). In second halfDolp

Huh. So what were the Colts balls measured at pregame?

Legal before legal halftime legal post game for colts

Legal before game illegal halftime and magically legal again after game not dropping g pressure this time for Pats

You all are naive

 

[mbuehner]

What is the legal range?

 

[Run It Up]

Or you know, the Vikings or Panthers.

 

[Run It Up]

Legal before legal halftime legal post game for coltsLegal before game illegal halftime and magically legal again after game not dropping g pressure this time for Pats

You all are naive

You literally don't know what you're talking about.

You're ####ting out of your mouth.

 

[SteelerMurf]

Legal before legal halftime legal post game for colts

Legal before game illegal halftime and magically legal again after game not dropping g pressure this time for Pats

You all are naive

You literally don't know what you're talking about.You're ####ting out of your mouth.

Prove me wrong. You can't

Sooooooo.......

 

[mbuehner]

Or simply point out that theres no scandal and 9th grade physics classics explain everything adequately.

Except when physics only effect Pats balls. Lol. And that physics class assumes a fixed container not a rubber one that expands and contracts. This is not a 9th grade problem

If the Pats balls started at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5, does that not entirely explain all the evidence available.

Highly unlikely. First of all most reports is they dropped 2 psi, so that would have dropped the Colts to 11.5 below the minimum. 2nd, why did none of the 24 balls used in the second half drop? None of them, drop in pressure?

3rd, using physics, the footballs in Green Bay last week would have looked like shriveled up raisins in the sub 20 degree weather compared to the warm air in NE at 51. Imagine how blown up the balls would get in the 100 degree fFlorida sun, where the temperature of the ball reaches 110 degrees?

a 20 degree drop from room temp to 51 degrees is nothing compared to the extremes that NFL balls see during the year, yet somehow it dropped nearly 15% of it's pressure for a measly 20 deg drop in temperature. Using that rate, imagine what the balls would have looked like in GB with a 50 degree drop in temp?

There is no physics at work here

1 leak said 2psi, another said around 1.And you sound like a fool arguing with the laws of nature. Numerous people have reproduced the drop of pressure with footballs. Nobody has not found a drop. Cuz, you know, science.

So if pressure is certain to drop. Tell that to The colts. And tell that to the balls that did not drop pressure (24 of them). In second halfDolp

Huh. So what were the Colts balls measured at pregame?

Legal before legal halftime legal post game for coltsLegal before game illegal halftime and magically legal again after game not dropping g pressure this time for Pats

You all are naive

Says the guy who doesnt believe in the ideal gas law, or the numerous experiments on footballs that demonstrate it. Or apprently that a football could drop from 13.5 to 12.5 psi and still be legal.

 

[Tenacious]

Legal before legal halftime legal post game for colts

Legal before game illegal halftime and magically legal again after game not dropping g pressure this time for Pats

You all are naive

You literally don't know what you're talking about.You're ####ting out of your mouth.

Prove me wrong. You can'tSooooooo.......

You're boring

 

[mbuehner]

Legal before legal halftime legal post game for colts

Legal before game illegal halftime and magically legal again after game not dropping g pressure this time for Pats

You all are naive

You literally don't know what you're talking about.You're ####ting out of your mouth.

Prove me wrong. You can'tSooooooo.......

Ill prove you wrong, heres a video of 12 footballs losing pressure due to loss of temperature. http://youtu.be/CxsXFX3tDpg

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

For those suggesting fairness: Dallas and Washington were penalized harshly by the league for circumventing the cap when there was no cap (strike killed the cap for a bit). If the rest of the league owners want to punish your team, it's going to happen. Both of these teams had legal recourse available to them, but both just took their unfair punishments.

My gut tells me these things:

- NFL refs were extremely lax in checking the pressure of footballs before or during an NFL game. It was likely widely accepted that your QB could play with footballs that he liked regardless of the psi reading.

- The Patriots pushed this by introducing game balls below the starting threshold that would lose a lot of psi by the time the game would play (We can all guess at the method, but I seriously doubt the league knows exactly what was done)

- A sting was likely put in play, based on an earlier game, but no one fully informed the refs exactly how to carry this out. And because they were not routinely doing their job (checking psi and logging the results), the sting got botched.

- The NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away by admitting this was a rule that wasn't really enforced. Refs did not routinely check the pressure, etc. They could have even put the Patriots (and the rest of the NFL) on notice by saying balls confiscated ended the game below stated psi levels. And this would be something the league took much more serious going forward, etc. When the league chose not to announce anything immediately, I believe they will punish the Patriots (regardless of evidence collected)

- It probably will not be fair (and likely could not stand up to a court process). The Commish (and NFL office) appear to have a vendetta in play. It could very well have to do with them feeling they "saved" the Patriots by destroying all of the Spygate tapes so they expected better from them, etc. Or it could just be that Goodell is a puppet to the rest of the owners and they refuse to let up on this.

- For all the Patriots fans, this has to suck really bad. The league has tarnished your guys image a lot with this scandal. The findings / lack of proof / etc don't really matter anymore. If the final penalties are light, the "salty haters" think they were spared again. If they are heavy, those "haters" are saying yes, this team just cheats to win.

- I am sure I will enjoy the game when it is happening, but this has soured the contest a lot for me. Vegas set this line super close. People are massively divided as to who has the better team. This should have been set up as something great to watch instead of the soap opera that it has become.

I commented on your earlier posts (not that u care) where I felt you, like so many others, were 100% intent on burying NE based on rumor, perceived reputation and bias. Your latest post is definitely a step in the right direction in terms of at least considering the possibility that NE didn’t really do anything sinister.

Part I

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but allow me to quibble on a few points and give my opinion on what I believe may have transpired.

I agree the NFL was probably lax in checking the balls and I don’t think Anderson even used a gauge. Like you, I think the league pretty much let each team play with the balls they wanted as long as they were close and felt right. This was not a problem for anyone until John Harbaugh became incensed at NE pushing the envelope with their formations and decided to get back at the Patriots by tipping off the Colts to a potential problem. The Colts having a history of losing and then whining to the league about it were only too happy to oblige. Both the Ravens and the Colts weren’t interested in preventing NE from using underinflated balls, no they couldn’t beat them on the field and wanted to setup a sting in order to hurt them as much as possible. So the Colts out of fear the refs might tip NE off never even gave the refs a heads up. This allowed the Colts to set the “trap”, but seriously undermined the validity of that trap.

Luck is on record as saying he likes the ball hard anyway and knowing they were setting a trap and the Indy balls were inflated to 13.5+ and maybe even done outdoors. NE probably submitted their balls at 13-13.5.

Here is where we differ a bit on what might have happened from there. You believe the NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away and at first glance that might “appear” to be true, but on closer inspection there are at least 3 reasons why they couldn’t simply make it go away.

1. Spygate

2. The botched Ray Rice investigation

3. Mike Kensil.

Who the hell is Mike Kensil? From Barstool.com

"He is the former President of the Jets. He was there when Belichick turned in his resignation to come to the Pats. He was there during Spygate. His friends will tell you that he obsesses over his hatred of the Patriots. That he swore 1 day he’s get back at Belichick for leaving him the lurch and sending the Jets into a downward spiral of ineptitude and ruining his career.

Yes it is this Mike Kensil who is now Dir. of Football Operations at National Football League who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. I’ve even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate."

So even though there really isn’t anything here and the league desperately wanted to make it go away they couldn’t. Not with Spygate and all the suspicions that they acted too quickly and swept some things under the rug, not with the botched Ray Rice investigation where they actually did try to sweep it under the rug, and finally, not with a butt hurt vindictive Kensil determined to get back at NE driving the investigation.

Part II to come

For those suggesting fairness: Dallas and Washington were penalized harshly by the league for circumventing the cap when there was no cap (strike killed the cap for a bit). If the rest of the league owners want to punish your team, it's going to happen. Both of these teams had legal recourse available to them, but both just took their unfair punishments.

My gut tells me these things:

- NFL refs were extremely lax in checking the pressure of footballs before or during an NFL game. It was likely widely accepted that your QB could play with footballs that he liked regardless of the psi reading.

- The Patriots pushed this by introducing game balls below the starting threshold that would lose a lot of psi by the time the game would play (We can all guess at the method, but I seriously doubt the league knows exactly what was done)

- A sting was likely put in play, based on an earlier game, but no one fully informed the refs exactly how to carry this out. And because they were not routinely doing their job (checking psi and logging the results), the sting got botched.

- The NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away by admitting this was a rule that wasn't really enforced. Refs did not routinely check the pressure, etc. They could have even put the Patriots (and the rest of the NFL) on notice by saying balls confiscated ended the game below stated psi levels. And this would be something the league took much more serious going forward, etc. When the league chose not to announce anything immediately, I believe they will punish the Patriots (regardless of evidence collected)

- It probably will not be fair (and likely could not stand up to a court process). The Commish (and NFL office) appear to have a vendetta in play. It could very well have to do with them feeling they "saved" the Patriots by destroying all of the Spygate tapes so they expected better from them, etc. Or it could just be that Goodell is a puppet to the rest of the owners and they refuse to let up on this.

- For all the Patriots fans, this has to suck really bad. The league has tarnished your guys image a lot with this scandal. The findings / lack of proof / etc don't really matter anymore. If the final penalties are light, the "salty haters" think they were spared again. If they are heavy, those "haters" are saying yes, this team just cheats to win.

- I am sure I will enjoy the game when it is happening, but this has soured the contest a lot for me. Vegas set this line super close. People are massively divided as to who has the better team. This should have been set up as something great to watch instead of the soap opera that it has become.

I commented on your earlier posts (not that u care) where I felt you, like so many others, were 100% intent on burying NE based on rumor, perceived reputation and bias. Your latest post is definitely a step in the right direction in terms of at least considering the possibility that NE didn’t really do anything sinister.

Part I

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but allow me to quibble on a few points and give my opinion on what I believe may have transpired.

I agree the NFL was probably lax in checking the balls and I don’t think Anderson even used a gauge. Like you, I think the league pretty much let each team play with the balls they wanted as long as they were close and felt right. This was not a problem for anyone until John Harbaugh became incensed at NE pushing the envelope with their formations and decided to get back at the Patriots by tipping off the Colts to a potential problem. The Colts having a history of losing and then whining to the league about it were only too happy to oblige. Both the Ravens and the Colts weren’t interested in preventing NE from using underinflated balls, no they couldn’t beat them on the field and wanted to setup a sting in order to hurt them as much as possible. So the Colts out of fear the refs might tip NE off never even gave the refs a heads up. This allowed the Colts to set the “trap”, but seriously undermined the validity of that trap.

Luck is on record as saying he likes the ball hard anyway and knowing they were setting a trap and the Indy balls were inflated to 13.5+ and maybe even done outdoors. NE probably submitted their balls at 13-13.5.

Here is where we differ a bit on what might have happened from there. You believe the NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away and at first glance that might “appear” to be true, but on closer inspection there are at least 3 reasons why they couldn’t simply make it go away.

1. Spygate

2. The botched Ray Rice investigation

3. Mike Kensil.

Who the hell is Mike Kensil? From Barstool.com

"He is the former President of the Jets. He was there when Belichick turned in his resignation to come to the Pats. He was there during Spygate. His friends will tell you that he obsesses over his hatred of the Patriots. That he swore 1 day he’s get back at Belichick for leaving him the lurch and sending the Jets into a downward spiral of ineptitude and ruining his career.

Yes it is this Mike Kensil who is now Dir. of Football Operations at National Football League who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. I’ve even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate."

So even though there really isn’t anything here and the league desperately wanted to make it go away they couldn’t. Not with Spygate and all the suspicions that they acted too quickly and swept some things under the rug, not with the botched Ray Rice investigation where they actually did try to sweep it under the rug, and finally, not with a butt hurt vindictive Kensil determined to get back at NE driving the investigation.

Part II to come

I still think the drop in air pressure was a result of where the NE balls were inflated, then the cooler temps/rain outdoors causing the drop.That being said, you seem to be willing to overlook ( or ignore) some information to make Part I of your theory work.

The Colts were trying to set up the Pats, so they didn't tell the refs before the game (hence the failure to use a gauge to check the balls & record this data). Unfortunately, there was a link posted (somewhere in the previous 125 pages) that reported the Colts DID bring this to the refs attention before the game.

You sa y the Pats probably submitted their balls at 13-13.5. This would make the pressure drop less likely to be due to only atmospheric conditions, AND it contradicts what BBhimself said, which is that they give them to the refs, and if they are under 12.5, they tell the refs to make them 12.5.

I realize y ou think this is some grand conspiracy against your Pats, but it could just be a case of other teams thinking the Pats were cheating, and being wrong. Manipulating facts & ignoring info available will not change that.

Thanks, u r right, that was a typo on my part; I meant to say the Pats probably submitted their fballs at 12.5-13.5.

You say it was "reported" that the Colts told the refs ahead of time, maybe this is true, but if it is true why wouldn't the referees have been more careful and logged the ball check results? So the refs knew ahead of time that the balls would be checked at halftime and they didn't bother to record the results of the pre game check? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, do you think it makes sense?

I never claimed it was a grand conspiracy, the butt hurt Ravens & Colts and Kensil is not what I would call a "grand" conspiracy.

I did state from the beginning that this is my opinion and I could be wrong, but I don't believe I have intentionally manipulated facts or ignored any info that is widely thought to be true.

I can understand typos-hell, I double-quoted your post in my reply.

Butt-hurt ravens, butt-hurt Kensil, whiny Colts, sting operation; the use/belief in these things would (IMO) add up to a conspiracy belief. If you object to the word grand, then I will withdraw it.

As far as the report; it's in this thread, somewhere, but I'm not trying to search through 126 pages to find it. Basically, it said the issue of the suspicion of under-inflated balls was brought up by the Colts in a normal pre-game type of meeting teams have with officials. From what I recall, there wasn't any report of checking the balls again at half-time; that seemed to come about after the Brady INT & the Colts re-iterating their belief that hte football was under-inflated.

Again, IF this was some kind of sting/conspiracy; the refs WOULD HAVE used a gauge (each time the measured the balls), and they WOULD HAVE recorded the information.

That kind of act (when it's outside their normal practice) might indicate some kind of pre-planned sting/conspiracy. The absence of that act seems (IMO) to indicate that this is a case of the Colts believing (after their regular-season game, and then during/after the AFCC) that the Pats were cheating. IMO, that belief isn't accurate. The fact that it is the Pats, who don't have the best reputation (spygate, games with the injury report, unusual formations, etc) around the league has made it blow up more than it would have if we were talking about the Jags, Browns, Raiders, Redskins, etc.

You seem determined to put words in my mouth saying I claimed it was a conspiracy when I did not; I am not going to go around and around on it any longer.

I addressed your "report" point and didn't question that there was a "report", in fact I conceded that there was in fact a "report". I question the reports validity and I asked you one very reasonable and logical question which you simply ignored.

If, as you want to believe, this "report" is accurate and the colts told the refs pre game they wanted the balls checked at half time, please explain to me why the ref wouldn't have made sure to check and log the psi levels before the game? You believe the colts told the refs ahead of time they suspected the balls would be under inflated and Walt Anderson simply didn't think it might be a good idea to log the results of the pre game psi checks? Again I will ask, do you agree this scenario makes little sense? FWIW Dodds doesn't appear to agree with your theory either; the refs were either in the dark or over the top incompetent.

 

[Bayhawks]

I commented on your earlier posts (not that u care) where I felt you, like so many others, were 100% intent on burying NE based on rumor, perceived reputation and bias. Your latest post is definitely a step in the right direction in terms of at least considering the possibility that NE didn’t really do anything sinister.

Part I

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but allow me to quibble on a few points and give my opinion on what I believe may have transpired.

I agree the NFL was probably lax in checking the balls and I don’t think Anderson even used a gauge. Like you, I think the league pretty much let each team play with the balls they wanted as long as they were close and felt right. This was not a problem for anyone until John Harbaugh became incensed at NE pushing the envelope with their formations and decided to get back at the Patriots by tipping off the Colts to a potential problem. The Colts having a history of losing and then whining to the league about it were only too happy to oblige. Both the Ravens and the Colts weren’t interested in preventing NE from using underinflated balls, no they couldn’t beat them on the field and wanted to setup a sting in order to hurt them as much as possible. So the Colts out of fear the refs might tip NE off never even gave the refs a heads up. This allowed the Colts to set the “trap”, but seriously undermined the validity of that trap.

Luck is on record as saying he likes the ball hard anyway and knowing they were setting a trap and the Indy balls were inflated to 13.5+ and maybe even done outdoors. NE probably submitted their balls at 13-13.5.

Here is where we differ a bit on what might have happened from there. You believe the NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away and at first glance that might “appear” to be true, but on closer inspection there are at least 3 reasons why they couldn’t simply make it go away.

1. Spygate

2. The botched Ray Rice investigation

3. Mike Kensil.

Who the hell is Mike Kensil? From Barstool.com

"He is the former President of the Jets. He was there when Belichick turned in his resignation to come to the Pats. He was there during Spygate. His friends will tell you that he obsesses over his hatred of the Patriots. That he swore 1 day he’s get back at Belichick for leaving him the lurch and sending the Jets into a downward spiral of ineptitude and ruining his career.

Yes it is this Mike Kensil who is now Dir. of Football Operations at National Football League who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. I’ve even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate."

So even though there really isn’t anything here and the league desperately wanted to make it go away they couldn’t. Not with Spygate and all the suspicions that they acted too quickly and swept some things under the rug, not with the botched Ray Rice investigation where they actually did try to sweep it under the rug, and finally, not with a butt hurt vindictive Kensil determined to get back at NE driving the investigation.

Part II to come

I still think the drop in air pressure was a result of where the NE balls were inflated, then the cooler temps/rain outdoors causing the drop.That being said, you seem to be willing to overlook ( or ignore) some information to make Part I of your theory work.

The Colts were trying to set up the Pats, so they didn't tell the refs before the game (hence the failure to use a gauge to check the balls & record this data). Unfortunately, there was a link posted (somewhere in the previous 125 pages) that reported the Colts DID bring this to the refs attention before the game.

You sa y the Pats probably submitted their balls at 13-13.5. This would make the pressure drop less likely to be due to only atmospheric conditions, AND it contradicts what BBhimself said, which is that they give them to the refs, and if they are under 12.5, they tell the refs to make them 12.5.

I realize y ou think this is some grand conspiracy against your Pats, but it could just be a case of other teams thinking the Pats were cheating, and being wrong. Manipulating facts & ignoring info available will not change that.

Thanks, u r right, that was a typo on my part; I meant to say the Pats probably submitted their fballs at 12.5-13.5.

You say it was "reported" that the Colts told the refs ahead of time, maybe this is true, but if it is true why wouldn't the referees have been more careful and logged the ball check results? So the refs knew ahead of time that the balls would be checked at halftime and they didn't bother to record the results of the pre game check? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, do you think it makes sense?

I never claimed it was a grand conspiracy, the butt hurt Ravens & Colts and Kensil is not what I would call a "grand" conspiracy.

I did state from the beginning that this is my opinion and I could be wrong, but I don't believe I have intentionally manipulated facts or ignored any info that is widely thought to be true.

I can understand typos-hell, I double-quoted your post in my reply.

Butt-hurt ravens, butt-hurt Kensil, whiny Colts, sting operation; the use/belief in these things would (IMO) add up to a conspiracy belief. If you object to the word grand, then I will withdraw it.

As far as the report; it's in this thread, somewhere, but I'm not trying to search through 126 pages to find it. Basically, it said the issue of the suspicion of under-inflated balls was brought up by the Colts in a normal pre-game type of meeting teams have with officials. From what I recall, there wasn't any report of checking the balls again at half-time; that seemed to come about after the Brady INT & the Colts re-iterating their belief that hte football was under-inflated.

Again, IF this was some kind of sting/conspiracy; the refs WOULD HAVE used a gauge (each time the measured the balls), and they WOULD HAVE recorded the information.

That kind of act (when it's outside their normal practice) might indicate some kind of pre-planned sting/conspiracy. The absence of that act seems (IMO) to indicate that this is a case of the Colts believing (after their regular-season game, and then during/after the AFCC) that the Pats were cheating. IMO, that belief isn't accurate. The fact that it is the Pats, who don't have the best reputation (spygate, games with the injury report, unusual formations, etc) around the league has made it blow up more than it would have if we were talking about the Jags, Browns, Raiders, Redskins, etc.

You seem determined to put words in my mouth saying I claimed it was a conspiracy when I did not; I am not going to go around and around on it any longer.

I addressed your "report" point and didn't question that there was a "report", in fact I conceded that there was in fact a "report". I question the reports validity and I asked you one very reasonable and logical question which you simply ignored.

If, as you want to believe, this "report" is accurate and the colts told the refs pre game they wanted the balls checked at half time, please explain to me why the ref wouldn't have made sure to check and log the psi levels before the game? You believe the colts told the refs ahead of time they suspected the balls would be under inflated and Walt Anderson simply didn't think it might be a good idea to log the results of the pre game psi checks? Again I will ask, do you agree this scenario makes little sense? FWIW Dodds doesn't appear to agree with your theory either; the refs were either in the dark or over the top incompetent.

Really? Please see your original post above. I bolded/underlined/enlarged it for you.

Besides that, you said both the Ravens and the Colts "weren't interested in preventing the Pats from using under-inflated balls," Harbaugh "wanted to get back at the Pats by tipping off the Colts" (ignoring the fact that the Colts had already been suspicious of the Patriots footballs after their regular season game). So they "set up a sting in order to hurt them as much as possible." Then you said the Colts "set the trap" by not telling the refs (again, ignoring the fact that they DID bring this to the refs/NFLs attention). Then you said that you've "heard rumors that he (Mike Kensil) and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football."

So, even if you didn't say conspiracy (which you did), what would you call it when two teams and and NFL official do a number of things behind the scenes in order to achieve a hidden goal ("hurt them as much as possible")? I think conspiracy would be a good term for that.

As to your question-I did answer it. The reason the refs didn't do anything out of the ordinary is because the request wasn't out of the ordinary. They said "we want to make sure the Pats balls are legal" (something along those lines), so the officials did what they normally do-which doesn't include recording the information, based on recent reports. I never said the reports asked the refs to check the balls at half-time, that was a result of the intercepted Brady pass. The report said the Colts brought the issue of under-inflated balls to the refs attention during a normal pre-game meeting with the teams.

Again, you seem to think there is more to this than there probably is. The Pats didn't cheat, they probably tried to get the balls as un-inflated as possible (12.5 PSI) and their preparation of those balls resulted in a slightly lower PSI after the refs checked them. They may have known this would have happened, they may not have. Other teams (Colts) were aware of this, and brought it to the officials attention. A Brady pass was intercepted, and someone on the Colts sideline thought it was light, and brought it to the NFL's attention. The NFL proceeded to screw it up from there.

 

[Run It Up]

These nested quotes - literally worse than Hitler.

 

[SteelerMurf]

Legal before legal halftime legal post game for colts

Legal before game illegal halftime and magically legal again after game not dropping g pressure this time for Pats

You all are naive

You literally don't know what you're talking about.You're ####ting out of your mouth.

Prove me wrong. You can'tSooooooo.......

You're boring

You are in denial

 

[ROCKET]

Legal before legal halftime legal post game for colts

Legal before game illegal halftime and magically legal again after game not dropping g pressure this time for Pats

You all are naive

You literally don't know what you're talking about.You're ####ting out of your mouth.

Prove me wrong. You can't

Sooooooo.......

We should have hired Terry Bradshaw to be in charge of our football deflate cheating as he's the authority on it.

 

[Old Smiley]

These nested quotes - literally worse than Hitler.

Got that right. Easy to fall into though. I blame the system, man.

Edit: Hell, give me a while and I'll find a way to blame Goodell.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

I commented on your earlier posts (not that u care) where I felt you, like so many others, were 100% intent on burying NE based on rumor, perceived reputation and bias. Your latest post is definitely a step in the right direction in terms of at least considering the possibility that NE didn’t really do anything sinister.

Part I

I agree with a lot of what you wrote, but allow me to quibble on a few points and give my opinion on what I believe may have transpired.

I agree the NFL was probably lax in checking the balls and I don’t think Anderson even used a gauge. Like you, I think the league pretty much let each team play with the balls they wanted as long as they were close and felt right. This was not a problem for anyone until John Harbaugh became incensed at NE pushing the envelope with their formations and decided to get back at the Patriots by tipping off the Colts to a potential problem. The Colts having a history of losing and then whining to the league about it were only too happy to oblige. Both the Ravens and the Colts weren’t interested in preventing NE from using underinflated balls, no they couldn’t beat them on the field and wanted to setup a sting in order to hurt them as much as possible. So the Colts out of fear the refs might tip NE off never even gave the refs a heads up. This allowed the Colts to set the “trap”, but seriously undermined the validity of that trap.

Luck is on record as saying he likes the ball hard anyway and knowing they were setting a trap and the Indy balls were inflated to 13.5+ and maybe even done outdoors. NE probably submitted their balls at 13-13.5.

Here is where we differ a bit on what might have happened from there. You believe the NFL has had ample opportunity to make this go away and at first glance that might “appear” to be true, but on closer inspection there are at least 3 reasons why they couldn’t simply make it go away.

1. Spygate

2. The botched Ray Rice investigation

3. Mike Kensil.

Who the hell is Mike Kensil? From Barstool.com

"He is the former President of the Jets. He was there when Belichick turned in his resignation to come to the Pats. He was there during Spygate. His friends will tell you that he obsesses over his hatred of the Patriots. That he swore 1 day he’s get back at Belichick for leaving him the lurch and sending the Jets into a downward spiral of ineptitude and ruining his career.

Yes it is this Mike Kensil who is now Dir. of Football Operations at National Football League who was prowling the Colts sidelines last week. Yes it is this Mike Kensil, the former Jet with a longstanding grudge against the Patriots who was proactively looking for deflated footballs last week. It is the same Mike Kensil who whispered to Bob Kravitz in a dark tunnel of Gillette about deflated footballs. I’ve even heard rumors that he and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football that came in at 10.5 PSI. The rest were closer to 11.5 PSI. It is this Mike Kensil who called Chris Mortensen to leak the story about Deflategate."

So even though there really isn’t anything here and the league desperately wanted to make it go away they couldn’t. Not with Spygate and all the suspicions that they acted too quickly and swept some things under the rug, not with the botched Ray Rice investigation where they actually did try to sweep it under the rug, and finally, not with a butt hurt vindictive Kensil determined to get back at NE driving the investigation.

Part II to come

I still think the drop in air pressure was a result of where the NE balls were inflated, then the cooler temps/rain outdoors causing the drop.That being said, you seem to be willing to overlook ( or ignore) some information to make Part I of your theory work.

The Colts were trying to set up the Pats, so they didn't tell the refs before the game (hence the failure to use a gauge to check the balls & record this data). Unfortunately, there was a link posted (somewhere in the previous 125 pages) that reported the Colts DID bring this to the refs attention before the game.

You sa y the Pats probably submitted their balls at 13-13.5. This would make the pressure drop less likely to be due to only atmospheric conditions, AND it contradicts what BBhimself said, which is that they give them to the refs, and if they are under 12.5, they tell the refs to make them 12.5.

I realize y ou think this is some grand conspiracy against your Pats, but it could just be a case of other teams thinking the Pats were cheating, and being wrong. Manipulating facts & ignoring info available will not change that.

Thanks, u r right, that was a typo on my part; I meant to say the Pats probably submitted their fballs at 12.5-13.5.

You say it was "reported" that the Colts told the refs ahead of time, maybe this is true, but if it is true why wouldn't the referees have been more careful and logged the ball check results? So the refs knew ahead of time that the balls would be checked at halftime and they didn't bother to record the results of the pre game check? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, do you think it makes sense?

I never claimed it was a grand conspiracy, the butt hurt Ravens & Colts and Kensil is not what I would call a "grand" conspiracy.

I did state from the beginning that this is my opinion and I could be wrong, but I don't believe I have intentionally manipulated facts or ignored any info that is widely thought to be true.

I can understand typos-hell, I double-quoted your post in my reply.

Butt-hurt ravens, butt-hurt Kensil, whiny Colts, sting operation; the use/belief in these things would (IMO) add up to a conspiracy belief. If you object to the word grand, then I will withdraw it.

As far as the report; it's in this thread, somewhere, but I'm not trying to search through 126 pages to find it. Basically, it said the issue of the suspicion of under-inflated balls was brought up by the Colts in a normal pre-game type of meeting teams have with officials. From what I recall, there wasn't any report of checking the balls again at half-time; that seemed to come about after the Brady INT & the Colts re-iterating their belief that hte football was under-inflated.

Again, IF this was some kind of sting/conspiracy; the refs WOULD HAVE used a gauge (each time the measured the balls), and they WOULD HAVE recorded the information.

That kind of act (when it's outside their normal practice) might indicate some kind of pre-planned sting/conspiracy. The absence of that act seems (IMO) to indicate that this is a case of the Colts believing (after their regular-season game, and then during/after the AFCC) that the Pats were cheating. IMO, that belief isn't accurate. The fact that it is the Pats, who don't have the best reputation (spygate, games with the injury report, unusual formations, etc) around the league has made it blow up more than it would have if we were talking about the Jags, Browns, Raiders, Redskins, etc.

You seem determined to put words in my mouth saying I claimed it was a conspiracy when I did not; I am not going to go around and around on it any longer.

I addressed your "report" point and didn't question that there was a "report", in fact I conceded that there was in fact a "report". I question the reports validity and I asked you one very reasonable and logical question which you simply ignored.

If, as you want to believe, this "report" is accurate and the colts told the refs pre game they wanted the balls checked at half time, please explain to me why the ref wouldn't have made sure to check and log the psi levels before the game? You believe the colts told the refs ahead of time they suspected the balls would be under inflated and Walt Anderson simply didn't think it might be a good idea to log the results of the pre game psi checks? Again I will ask, do you agree this scenario makes little sense? FWIW Dodds doesn't appear to agree with your theory either; the refs were either in the dark or over the top incompetent.

Really? Please see your original post above. I bolded/underlined/enlarged it for you.

Besides that, you said both the Ravens and the Colts "weren't interested in preventing the Pats from using under-inflated balls," Harbaugh "wanted to get back at the Pats by tipping off the Colts" (ignoring the fact that the Colts had already been suspicious of the Patriots footballs after their regular season game). So they "set up a sting in order to hurt them as much as possible." Then you said the Colts "set the trap" by not telling the refs (again, ignoring the fact that they DID bring this to the refs/NFLs attention). Then you said that you've "heard rumors that he (Mike Kensil) and the Colts equipment manager conspired to actually deflate the one football."

So, even if you didn't say conspiracy (which you did), what would you call it when two teams and and NFL official do a number of things behind the scenes in order to achieve a hidden goal ("hurt them as much as possible")? I think conspiracy would be a good term for that.

As to your question-I did answer it. The reason the refs didn't do anything out of the ordinary is because the request wasn't out of the ordinary. They said "we want to make sure the Pats balls are legal" (something along those lines), so the officials did what they normally do-which doesn't include recording the information, based on recent reports. I never said the reports asked the refs to check the balls at half-time, that was a result of the intercepted Brady pass. The report said the Colts brought the issue of under-inflated balls to the refs attention during a normal pre-game meeting with the teams.

Again, you seem to think there is more to this than there probably is. The Pats didn't cheat, they probably tried to get the balls as un-inflated as possible (12.5 PSI) and their preparation of those balls resulted in a slightly lower PSI after the refs checked them. They may have known this would have happened, they may not have. Other teams (Colts) were aware of this, and brought it to the officials attention. A Brady pass was intercepted, and someone on the Colts sideline thought it was light, and brought it to the NFL's attention. The NFL proceeded to screw it up from there.

You understand you bolded an excerpt from an article, right? So no again, I didn't say that. If you want to get into splitting hairs\semantics etc and describe it as such have at it, it's just a peeing contest at this point.

Speaking of peeing contest, you still didn't directly answer my question (it was a yes or no), but I will go with yes, you think the refs knew ahead of time that psi would be an issue, but they just never thought to properly check and record the psi results. We will have to agree to disagree on that, I think it is pretty far fetched to think the refs knew there might be an issue with ball psi and didn't think to record the results.

You claim "the reason the refs didn't do anything out of the ordinary is because the request wasn't out of the ordinary. They said "we want to make sure the Pats balls are legal" (something along those lines), "

I am not sure what you base that belief on? Admittedly I do not know for sure (I could be wrong ) but I believe it is far, far from the ordinary and had the refs known ahead of time they would have had their antennae up and immediately recognized the potential for a spit storm and they would have meticulously checked and logged the balls pre game. I think we can again agree to disagree.

We both appear to believe NE didn't cheat and I wish at this point we could just leave it at that, but something tells me neither of us are built like that