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What would you trade for Bush in a PPR league?

Umm . . . Thomas Jones. Or . . . Matt Cassel.Or . . . Santana Moss.Seriously, how does one answer this question? I get some variation of this all the time, and I have no idea how to go about answering it.

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I watched Culpepper a couple of times last season. He's not going to be back with the Lions -- nor should he be.

Scott Linehan: Starting Lions QB might be determined after preseason games

by Tom Kowalski

Wednesday January 28, 2009, 12:55 PM

Lions offensive coordinator Scott Linehan said today that he would be comfortable in naming a starting quarterback after competition in the preseason games. Linehan said he's talked to Daunte Culpepper, Jon Kitna and Drew Stanton but he made it clear the Lions don't have a frontrunner for the starting job. Not yet.

Linehan coached Culpepper for several successful seasons in Minnesota, but Linehan said that doesn't necessarily mean Culpepper has an edge.

"In fairness to all the quarterbacks, we haven't really looked and done enough to say what we would or wouldn't do,'' Linehan said. "We've got to let it work itself out. I wouldn't make any assumptions.''

Linehan, who said he's still in the process of evaluating the quarterbacks, brought up the fact that Atlanta held an open quarterback competition in preseason before settling on Matt Ryan, who went on to be the Rookie of the Year.

From a common sense perspective, I don't think it makes sense for Linehan to interact with Culpepper, and for him to be mentioned as a possible starter by a typically informed beat writer (Kowalski), if it is a foregone conclusion he's done with the team. Why not just cordially tell Culpepper to stay home and await his release? More is going on here than people assume, JMHO. I'd guess we'll know by Feb 27 in any event.

:)

Looks like the Detroit News agrees with you, but I'm with Rotoworld's Evan Silva here: considering his signing bonus, '09 salary, and more importantly, his play over the past four years, it makes zero sense for the Lions. I think the beat writer, Niyo, is making too much of Culpepper's past history with Linehan. That history was five years ago, when Culpepper was still a quality NFL player.

Daunte Culpepper "clearly appears to be the front-runner" to start next season as the Lions' QB, according to the Detroit News.

We're going to have to question this. Culpepper has not been backup-caliber, let alone starting material, since 2004. His ties to new coordinator Scott Linehan can't hurt, but it's also worth noting that Linehan passed over Culpepper time and time again in St. Louis when Culpepper was a free agent. Culpepper is also due $5 million next season. Re-signing Dan Orlovsky would be the better upside move and likely far more cost effective.

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I think there's a middle ground on Culpepper that is being overlooked.

Since he is his own agent, he might opt to re-work the deal and stay around Detroit to try and recapture what he had with Linehan & Moss with Linehan & Johnson. There is room fo rthe 2 sides to meet that would probably keep Culpepper happy and the Lions happy.

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What is Donovan McNabb's dynasty value? Did his playoff run help or hurt? He put up good-looking stats, though those that watched may think he didn't look so good. I have a sense that he is nearly untradeble. By now, seems like most dynasty leaguers have been burned by him or want one of the hot new young things.

I think I may try to package him and McFadden for Brees and late first round pick. I think adding a young prospect is the only way to move him.

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I think there's a middle ground on Culpepper that is being overlooked.Since he is his own agent, he might opt to re-work the deal and stay around Detroit to try and recapture what he had with Linehan & Moss with Linehan & Johnson. There is room fo rthe 2 sides to meet that would probably keep Culpepper happy and the Lions happy.

I agree that this scenario is possible, but I still think he'd be a long shot to start in Week 1. On the off chance that he did start in Week 1, I don't think he'd last more than a few weeks as the starter.What sticks out like a sore thumb is that it's just a bad idea for the Lions to waste time with him. We're not talking about a Pennington or Warner who will use their experience and veteran savvy to take care of the ball and lead a poor team to a surprisingly good season. We're talking about an absolute turnover machine who does nothing but help your team lose football games. He's got a 17-to-26 TD/Int ratio the past four seasons to go along with 22 fumbles in 23 games. It's not often that I trust my own instincts over the local press, but in this instance the antennae are up -- and they're saying Culpepper will be released before the 2009 season begins.

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I think there's a middle ground on Culpepper that is being overlooked.Since he is his own agent, he might opt to re-work the deal and stay around Detroit to try and recapture what he had with Linehan & Moss with Linehan & Johnson. There is room fo rthe 2 sides to meet that would probably keep Culpepper happy and the Lions happy.

:thumbdown: That's the direction I'm coming from. Maybe there's a 50% chance Culpepper re-does his deal. If he does, probably then a 75% chance he remains the starter in a scheme he's succeeded in, with a full offseason to practice throwing to a Moss-like receiver. At those odds, doesn't it make sense to pick him up as a FA or using a 4th round rookie pick? After the top 20 QBs on a dynasty list, aren't we really talking about right place/right time potential who are young enough to make the jump into that upper echelon? One vet I'd compare Culpepper to is Warner, who had some gigantic success and then became considered junk while he threw 27 TDs over 5 seasons with 3 different teams using schemes/personnel that, for whatever reason, didn't help him reach his ceiling. Did he become a bad QB or is there more to it than that? Those FFers who took a chance on picking Warner up for nothing in 2007 have been rewarded by back to back 27/30 TD seasons. Wish I'd been one of them. Culpepper could be in a similar situation, with coaching and scheme he's succeeded under previously, and being young enough to possibly string together a couple successful seasons. In any event, it's a short term investment.

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We're not talking about a Pennington or Warner who will use their experience and veteran savvy to take care of the ball and lead a poor team to a surprisingly good season.

FWIW, the 5 seasons from 2002-2006, Warner threw 27 TDs and had 47 turnovers (30 INTs, 17 lost fumbles of 43 total fumbles). I just don't recall a lot of discussion referring to him as a savvy vet who took care of the ball. Sure, he's that now. That's somewhat my point.

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The main thing some are missing here is that Culpepper can't play anymore.

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With the news that Toomer is likely out in NY, do we bump up Hixon? I've been high on Hixon, but thought his upside was limited by the possible return of Burress. But it now seems that he could be a starter with or without Plax. He might even be better with Plax on the other side.

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We're not talking about a Pennington or Warner who will use their experience and veteran savvy to take care of the ball and lead a poor team to a surprisingly good season.

FWIW, the 5 seasons from 2002-2006, Warner threw 27 TDs and had 47 turnovers (30 INTs, 17 lost fumbles of 43 total fumbles). I just don't recall a lot of discussion referring to him as a savvy vet who took care of the ball. Sure, he's that now. That's somewhat my point.
This is a great point. While I believe Culpepper is garbage, he's still worthy of a very late round flier. He's got as much upside as anybody else you can get at his price.

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With the news that Toomer is likely out in NY, do we bump up Hixon? I've been high on Hixon, but thought his upside was limited by the possible return of Burress. But it now seems that he could be a starter with or without Plax. He might even be better with Plax on the other side.

I agree - I like Hixon too. As a solid (FF) WR3 and potential WR2.He really didn't show enough this year to be considered a team's #1 WR, but if he has a stud on the other side (Plax or if they bring someone in), Hixon could probably put up Cotchery-level numbers (with maybe even a few more TD's)

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The main thing some are missing here is that Culpepper can't play anymore.

The nice thing about previously great QBs who "can't play anymore"... sometimes they come out of nowhere to throw 34 TDs (Cunningham), sometimes they throw 30 TDs and lead a team to the Super Bowl in a season no one even predicted them to start (Warner).

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The main thing some are missing here is that Culpepper can't play anymore.

The nice thing about previously great QBs who "can't play anymore"... sometimes they come out of nowhere to throw 34 TDs (Cunningham), sometimes they throw 30 TDs and lead a team to the Super Bowl in a season no one even predicted them to start (Warner).
Reaching back for Randall Cunningham shows how rare this is.Warner has been a great story, but I'm afraid Uber is right,Cpep just can't play anymore.

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The main thing some are missing here is that Culpepper can't play anymore.

The nice thing about previously great QBs who "can't play anymore"... sometimes they come out of nowhere to throw 34 TDs (Cunningham), sometimes they throw 30 TDs and lead a team to the Super Bowl in a season no one even predicted them to start (Warner).
Reaching back for Randall Cunningham shows how rare this is.Warner has been a great story, but I'm afraid Uber is right,Cpep just can't play anymore.
:goodposting: I agree. I have no problems with the theory that it's worth a roster spot to gamble on a previously great QB. I just think Culpepper will be cut before the season starts and, furthermore, he's a garbage QB at this stage of his career. Cunningham had Randy Moss, Cris Carter, and Jake Reed. Warner has Fitzgerald, Boldin, and Breaston.If the Lions draft Crabtree and sign Bobby Engram while Culpepper learns how to throw the ball again, you might be onto something. My guess is it would be Kitna or somebody else benefiting from that unlikely scenario instead of C-Pep (who clearly not cannot play anymore).

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I might buy into Culpepper doing something again, except he has no mobility, no accuracy, can't read defenses, and has no pocket presence.

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I think there's a middle ground on Culpepper that is being overlooked.Since he is his own agent, he might opt to re-work the deal and stay around Detroit to try and recapture what he had with Linehan & Moss with Linehan & Johnson. There is room fo rthe 2 sides to meet that would probably keep Culpepper happy and the Lions happy.

Does anyone know when, exactly, the Lions would either have to made a decision on paying the roster bonus and/or restructuring C-Pep's contract?I know his roster bonus is due in February, but does anyone know more specifics?

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I think there's a middle ground on Culpepper that is being overlooked.Since he is his own agent, he might opt to re-work the deal and stay around Detroit to try and recapture what he had with Linehan & Moss with Linehan & Johnson. There is room fo rthe 2 sides to meet that would probably keep Culpepper happy and the Lions happy.

Does anyone know when, exactly, the Lions would either have to made a decision on paying the roster bonus and/or restructuring C-Pep's contract?I know his roster bonus is due in February, but does anyone know more specifics?
February 27.

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I might buy into Culpepper doing something again, except he has no mobility, no accuracy, can't read defenses, and has no pocket presence.

:rolleyes: . . . coming from an informed Lions fan.

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I'm finding this Culpepper "debate" interesting. There are two camps, and there is a definite split on him... it's just not a normal kind of split:

1. He's completely worthless

2. He's probably worthless, but might surprise.

We'll see, but I can see the similarities that were pointed out by BigJim (I think) regarding Warner being thought of in a similar light when he was a Giant.

I'm hoping Stanton is the guy there - working on the theory that the ONLY guy in Detroit who knew bupkus about QB's- Martz - liked him while the rest of them didn't. Having the Lions braintrust think you aren't good may actually be a good thing.

Edited by stevegamer

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With the news that Toomer is likely out in NY, do we bump up Hixon? I've been high on Hixon, but thought his upside was limited by the possible return of Burress. But it now seems that he could be a starter with or without Plax. He might even be better with Plax on the other side.

I agree - I like Hixon too. As a solid (FF) WR3 and potential WR2.He really didn't show enough this year to be considered a team's #1 WR, but if he has a stud on the other side (Plax or if they bring someone in), Hixon could probably put up Cotchery-level numbers (with maybe even a few more TD's)
I've soured a bit on Hixon, but I agree that having a stud on the other side would help him. I was excited about him when Plax went down, but he was so underwhelming from then on. He's somebody I'd be looking to sell as opposed to buying.

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Question for you Fear and Loathing.

I see you have recently put D-Mac @ your 16th ranked rb. Do you see him making major strides this year or do you see him still being involved in a major RBBC?

I really like his skill set but oppurtunity > skill now days.

I actually think the Raiders are a team to watch out for next year :wall: .....no seriously I do .

Do you put your ranking for this year or just based on his talent and upside for the future?

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What is Donovan McNabb's dynasty value? Did his playoff run help or hurt? He put up good-looking stats, though those that watched may think he didn't look so good. I have a sense that he is nearly untradeble. By now, seems like most dynasty leaguers have been burned by him or want one of the hot new young things.I think I may try to package him and McFadden for Brees and late first round pick. I think adding a young prospect is the only way to move him.

I tried to trade for him a month ago, but his owner wanted way too much. I offered Warner and some other pieces, and he wanted Brady instead.- I think his playoff run helped. I don't know how somebody could watch that Arizona game and say he played poorly. - I think McNabb has reached his breaking point in Philly and is using this contract extension talk as a way to force a showdown. - What's his future if he's stays in Philly? Can DeSean Jackson emerge as a playmaking No. 1? Can Kevin Curtis bounce back to put up legit No. 2 numbers? Will Philly draft a bigger RB to go with Westbrook and start to run the ball a bit more? Are they rebuilding their O-Line this offseason, and will there be growing pains?- What's his future if he forces a showdown and ends up elsewhere? Can he produce stud numbers in Minnesota? Kansas City? Chicago? Tampa Bay? Jets?I'd hold onto him and hope for the best if I was going to be forced to give him away at pennies on the dollar. He can still put up QB1 numbers.

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Question for you Fear and Loathing. I see you have recently put D-Mac @ your 16th ranked rb. Do you see him making major strides this year or do you see him still being involved in a major RBBC?I really like his skill set but oppurtunity > skill now days.I actually think the Raiders are a team to watch out for next year :lmao: .....no seriously I do .Do you put your ranking for this year or just based on his talent and upside for the future?

I don't have a great feel for McFadden. I never have. He seems like a terrific buy-low right now, but will he ever realize his potential? Is he injury prone? Are his legs too skinny? Does he need to get the ball in space to do anything? I think if you feel strongly about his talent, you should buy now. My feeling on ultra-talented guys is that you should never let a dude like Justin Fargas get in the way of the big picture. Fargas will be easily nudged aside as soon as McFadden gives the Raiders a reason to do it. Rankings are for 2009 and future years. I put more value on '09 than subsequent years because I think your goal every year should be to win the championship, but future years can't be excluded either. Edited by Fear & Loathing

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Question for you Fear and Loathing. I see you have recently put D-Mac @ your 16th ranked rb. Do you see him making major strides this year or do you see him still being involved in a major RBBC?I really like his skill set but oppurtunity > skill now days.I actually think the Raiders are a team to watch out for next year :lmao: .....no seriously I do .Do you put your ranking for this year or just based on his talent and upside for the future?

I don't have a great feel for McFadden. I never have. He seems like a terrific buy-low right now, but will he ever realize his potential? Is he injury prone? Are his legs too skinny? Does he need to get the ball in space to do anything? I think if you feel strongly about his talent, you should buy now. My feeling on ultra-talented guys is that you should never let a dude like Justin Fargas get in the way of the big picture. Fargas will be easily nudged aside as soon as McFadden gives the Raiders a reason to do it. Rankings are for 2009 and future years. I put more value on '09 than subsequent years because I think your goal every year should be to win the championship, but future years can't be excluded either.
Thanks

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I'm interested in your thoughts on Garcia and Leftwich for 2009. As mentioned above, teams like NYJ, MIN, TB, KC, CHI, and if McNabb leaves, PHI, might look outside their current rosters for a starter.

I'm not sure if Garcia stays put or if they are ready to let him move on. If so, could there be a Philly redux? I've read team brass doesn't see Kolb as ready to take over.

Leftwich ought to have some suitors.

So.. 50/50 for each of these guys to start somewhere? 70/30? 30/70? Thoughts?

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The main thing some are missing here is that Culpepper can't play anymore.

The nice thing about previously great QBs who "can't play anymore"... sometimes they come out of nowhere to throw 34 TDs (Cunningham), sometimes they throw 30 TDs and lead a team to the Super Bowl in a season no one even predicted them to start (Warner).
You already admitted you didn't even watch him play this year. People who have are in this thread telling you he's done. I'm not sure what your agenda is, but you're starting to look unreasonably biased.

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Looking for some opinions about K.Smith from Det. Didn't get a chance to see him play this year as Det. sucked and wasn't on TV when I was watching. I've been getting offers in a dynasty league for him, but all I know is that he scored for me towards the end of the year. What are the long term prospects for him?

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Looking for some opinions about K.Smith from Det. Didn't get a chance to see him play this year as Det. sucked and wasn't on TV when I was watching. I've been getting offers in a dynasty league for him, but all I know is that he scored for me towards the end of the year. What are the long term prospects for him?

Scroll back a few pages, F&L and I went back and forth on him for a bunch of posts...

Start here... http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...t&p=9602941

I like Smith a lot. If you look at his stats he outproduced Matt Forte on a per touch basis...better YPC, better YPR, etc. He just lacked the amount of opportunity Forte got in Chicago. If the Lions improve in any aspect of their game (offensive line, QB play, or defense) I think Smith becomes a top 10-15 RB. Heck we was ranked at #19 in my dynasty league (non-ppr) at the end of this year and that was despite splitting time with Rudi Johnson the first half of the year. By the end of the year he was a 20+ carry/game back, did not split time with anyone, and was a 3-down back.

Edited by Boone22

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The main thing some are missing here is that Culpepper can't play anymore.

The nice thing about previously great QBs who "can't play anymore"... sometimes they come out of nowhere to throw 34 TDs (Cunningham), sometimes they throw 30 TDs and lead a team to the Super Bowl in a season no one even predicted them to start (Warner).
You already admitted you didn't even watch him play this year. People who have are in this thread telling you he's done. I'm not sure what your agenda is, but you're starting to look unreasonably biased.
Let me dispell this right now. I thought I'd been clear: I said I'd put Culpepper just above Leftwich... right around 35 in a positional ranking. That would put him above Brennan, Stanton, J.Johnson, S.Wallace, M.Vick, Collins, Garcia, Leftwich. I can understand arguments for some of those guys; Collins and Garcia no doubt offer more short term starting QB value, but this is a dynasty ranking and they have limited upside and waning careers. At a 35 ranking, he's still a QB who would be rostered as a QB3-4 on 12-team rosters. If you feel that is unreasonably biased, rather than a simple opinion he may be worth a low cost/short term investment if others value him #43 (no doubt, a FA at that value), I'm not sure how to respond. It's overstating it IMHO to even call a 43-35 ranking difference a quibble. Let's assume I'm completely wrong: I cut him, like any other flier sitting at the end of my dynasty bench. FWIW, I didn't "admit I didn't even watch Culpepper" this year. I responded to F&L that Culpepper didn't show me anything this year, but I choose not to read too much into that since he was sitting on a couch through week 9. Enough on Culpepper. What about Henne? Who's with me this guy jumps into the top 20 this season? I'm actually thinking about offering J.Campbell straight up for him after holding Campbell with limited rewards for 4 seasons.

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Looking for some opinions about K.Smith from Det. Didn't get a chance to see him play this year as Det. sucked and wasn't on TV when I was watching. I've been getting offers in a dynasty league for him, but all I know is that he scored for me towards the end of the year. What are the long term prospects for him?

Getting a better OC can only help him. I like K.Smith where F&L has him (#20), but I actually like LT, Addai & Grant better at their values (currently ranked below K.Smith) as guys who might produce beyond the current ranking.

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With the news that Toomer is likely out in NY, do we bump up Hixon? I've been high on Hixon, but thought his upside was limited by the possible return of Burress. But it now seems that he could be a starter with or without Plax. He might even be better with Plax on the other side.

I agree - I like Hixon too. As a solid (FF) WR3 and potential WR2.He really didn't show enough this year to be considered a team's #1 WR, but if he has a stud on the other side (Plax or if they bring someone in), Hixon could probably put up Cotchery-level numbers (with maybe even a few more TD's)
I've soured a bit on Hixon, but I agree that having a stud on the other side would help him. I was excited about him when Plax went down, but he was so underwhelming from then on. He's somebody I'd be looking to sell as opposed to buying.
His opportunity is very good. Good #s of targets and I think Eli has confidence in him. His production has been good too. He dropped one long 60+ yard TD, so could have been better.I think he's a hold for now, but he'll gain hype in the off-season as the Plax and Toomer situations clear up. Then is the time to sell him as I agree that he's not elite - no WR1 potential.

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What is Donovan McNabb's dynasty value? Did his playoff run help or hurt? He put up good-looking stats, though those that watched may think he didn't look so good. I have a sense that he is nearly untradeble. By now, seems like most dynasty leaguers have been burned by him or want one of the hot new young things.I think I may try to package him and McFadden for Brees and late first round pick. I think adding a young prospect is the only way to move him.

I tried to trade for him a month ago, but his owner wanted way too much. I offered Warner and some other pieces, and he wanted Brady instead.- I think his playoff run helped. I don't know how somebody could watch that Arizona game and say he played poorly. - I think McNabb has reached his breaking point in Philly and is using this contract extension talk as a way to force a showdown. - What's his future if he's stays in Philly? Can DeSean Jackson emerge as a playmaking No. 1? Can Kevin Curtis bounce back to put up legit No. 2 numbers? Will Philly draft a bigger RB to go with Westbrook and start to run the ball a bit more? Are they rebuilding their O-Line this offseason, and will there be growing pains?- What's his future if he forces a showdown and ends up elsewhere? Can he produce stud numbers in Minnesota? Kansas City? Chicago? Tampa Bay? Jets?I'd hold onto him and hope for the best if I was going to be forced to give him away at pennies on the dollar. He can still put up QB1 numbers.
I would hope one priority is to get him another WR. Reportedly, they went after Moss and Boldin. Maybe they get McNabb that stud WR. If so, I like his situation quite a bit.

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Looking for some opinions about K.Smith from Det. Didn't get a chance to see him play this year as Det. sucked and wasn't on TV when I was watching. I've been getting offers in a dynasty league for him, but all I know is that he scored for me towards the end of the year. What are the long term prospects for him?

He was pretty consistant on a really bad team. I like him a lot. trade him to me :banned:

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I like KSmith too, but i traded him. In 2 years I think you will be very happy if you kept him. However with all Det factors I believe a full year of production is doubtful. My team is built to win now. There is allot to like.

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I like KSmith too, but i traded him. In 2 years I think you will be very happy if you kept him. However with all Det factors I believe a full year of production is doubtful. My team is built to win now. There is allot to like.

I would much rather have him for the short term than long-term because he is a virtual lock to carry the load for at least a year or two unless he completely falls apart. The Lions have so many holes that they are not at all concerned about RB right now.Long-term is a bit tougher to figure out, but I personally think he is a good NFL RB, but not so good that he is a guaranteed long-term starter. But he has little to worry about right now.

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F&L -

What's your take on Roy Williams, Hines Ward and Torry Holt? I have to make a decision on these 3 (non-PPR) and am trying to figure out which 1 or 2 to keep. H Ward seems to have the most stability, Roy has the most upside, Holt has the most downside (if he's just completely done).

Just curious how you break these guys down.

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I was reading F&L's recent Buy Low/Sell High list and have a name I'd like to throw out there for opinions: Reggie Bush.Are people out there looking to acquire him? It seems his value has hit a low, can he turn things around? IMO, he started year 1 with alot of promise (and expectations), but years 2 & 3 have ended with disappointment and on IR. On the other hand, he is still young (24?) and plays on an explosive offense.In one league I'm in (no PPR for RB's) his owner is willing to give him up for a combo middling 2009 rook picks. I was a bit surprised by that.Thoughts on Bush going forward?

I think in PPR Leagues Reggie remains a strong player who should be acquired. In standard leagues his value is less and I do think Pierre Thomas will be the primary back next season.

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Looking for some opinions about K.Smith from Det. Didn't get a chance to see him play this year as Det. sucked and wasn't on TV when I was watching. I've been getting offers in a dynasty league for him, but all I know is that he scored for me towards the end of the year. What are the long term prospects for him?

He was pretty consistant on a really bad team. I like him a lot. trade him to me :lmao:
:)Don't worry, I probably will be. Asking for another league too.

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Pittsburgh Defense! :confused::shrug:

:confused: My favorite part was that game-winning drive engineered by Troy Polamalu. At this pace, he's going to bypass Elway's record of fourth quarter comebacks.

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Pittsburgh Defense! :lmao::towelwave:

:lmao: My favorite part was that game-winning drive engineered by Troy Polamalu. At this pace, he's going to bypass Elway's record of fourth quarter comebacks.
The Cardinals are a team with a mediocre (albeit overachieving in the playoffs) defense and a terrific offense.Their vaunted offense scored 14 points. The Pittsburgh defense scored 7 points.Yet still, Pitt needed a last second drive to get the win.It was a great, clutch drive by Big Ben, no doubt. But yet again, he gets bailed out of a mediocre game long performance by his amazing defense. It must be nice to only have to actually do anything on one or two drives a game and not be down by 3 scores at that point.With 3 minutes left in the game, Pittsburgh's defense had scored as many points as Arizona's offense, yet Zona was still within 1 score. Edited by FreeBaGeL

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Pittsburgh Defense! :confused::shrug:

:confused: My favorite part was that game-winning drive engineered by Troy Polamalu. At this pace, he's going to bypass Elway's record of fourth quarter comebacks.
The Cardinals are a team with a mediocre (albeit overachieving in the playoffs) defense and a terrific offense.Their vaunted offense scored 14 points. The Pittsburgh defense scored 7 points.Yet still, Pitt needed a last second drive to get the win.It was a great, clutch drive by Big Ben, no doubt. But yet again, he gets bailed out of a mediocre game long performance by his amazing defense. It must be nice to only have to actually do anything on one or two drives a game and not be down by 3 scores at that point.
That's ludicrous. Mediocre game? Were you running a loop of the 2006 Super Bowl at your house? I'm with Cris Collinsworth and all of the NFL Network guys. In the game I watched, Roethlisberger was outstanding . . . even with his best receiver almost totally out of the game plan. But that's to be expected with one of the best QBs in the game. He's just a hell of a football player.

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Pittsburgh Defense! :no::lmao:

:lmao: My favorite part was that game-winning drive engineered by Troy Polamalu. At this pace, he's going to bypass Elway's record of fourth quarter comebacks.
The Cardinals are a team with a mediocre (albeit overachieving in the playoffs) defense and a terrific offense.Their vaunted offense scored 14 points. The Pittsburgh defense scored 7 points.Yet still, Pitt needed a last second drive to get the win.It was a great, clutch drive by Big Ben, no doubt. But yet again, he gets bailed out of a mediocre game long performance by his amazing defense. It must be nice to only have to actually do anything on one or two drives a game and not be down by 3 scores at that point.
That's ludicrous. Mediocre game? Were you running a loop of the 2006 Super Bowl at your house? I'm with Cris Collinsworth and all of the NFL Network guys. In the game I watched, Roethlisberger was outstanding . . . even with his best receiver almost totally out of the game plan. But that's to be expected with one of the best QBs in the game. He's just a hell of a football player.
Heading into the last drive Roethlisberger was 15/22 for 180yds with 0 TDs and 1 INT, and two more passes that he was lucky weren't picked (one of which should've been an easy 40 yard TD with a decent throw).He played great....on two drives during the course of the entire game. But as usual, that's all Pittsburgh's defense needs.But two years from now all we're going to hear about is how Big Ben "won" the Super Bowl. All on his own. Because people have this crazy mythology of associating super bowl wins with quarterback wins. Edited by FreeBaGeL

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Pittsburgh Defense! :football::lmao:

:lmao: My favorite part was that game-winning drive engineered by Troy Polamalu. At this pace, he's going to bypass Elway's record of fourth quarter comebacks.
The Cardinals are a team with a mediocre (albeit overachieving in the playoffs) defense and a terrific offense.Their vaunted offense scored 14 points. The Pittsburgh defense scored 7 points.Yet still, Pitt needed a last second drive to get the win.It was a great, clutch drive by Big Ben, no doubt. But yet again, he gets bailed out of a mediocre game long performance by his amazing defense. It must be nice to only have to actually do anything on one or two drives a game and not be down by 3 scores at that point.
That's ludicrous. Mediocre game? Were you running a loop of the 2006 Super Bowl at your house? I'm with Cris Collinsworth and all of the NFL Network guys. In the game I watched, Roethlisberger was outstanding . . . even with his best receiver almost totally out of the game plan. But that's to be expected with one of the best QBs in the game. He's just a hell of a football player.
Heading into the last drive Roethlisberger was 15/22 for 180yds with 0 TDs and 1 INT, and two more passes that he was lucky weren't picked (one of which should've been an easy 40 yard TD with a decent throw).He played great....on two drives during the course of the entire game. But as usual, that's all Pittsburgh's defense needs.But two years from now all we're going to hear about is how Big Ben "won" the Super Bowl. All on his own. Because people have this crazy mythology of associating super bowl wins with quarterback wins.
I think you guys are both too far on opposite sides. Ben's game was average for him, but average for him is easily above average for anyone else. That said, I don't think he was within shouting distance of 'outstanding'.One thing though... Ben's play on the field showed me one thing... I **want** this guy leading my team. He didn't have a great game, but when faced with tough situations he made down saving plays much more often than not. Being careful not to bring the haters out of the woodwork again and say that I'm talking about NFL and not fantasy, but I"m fully convinced that Ben's one of the top 3 QBs in the league. The kid is great.

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Pittsburgh Defense! :popcorn:

:shrug:

:P

My favorite part was that game-winning drive engineered by Troy Polamalu. At this pace, he's going to bypass Elway's record of fourth quarter comebacks.

The Cardinals are a team with a mediocre (albeit overachieving in the playoffs) defense and a terrific offense.

Their vaunted offense scored 14 points. The Pittsburgh defense scored 7 points.

Yet still, Pitt needed a last second drive to get the win.

It was a great, clutch drive by Big Ben, no doubt. But yet again, he gets bailed out of a mediocre game long performance by his amazing defense. It must be nice to only have to actually do anything on one or two drives a game and not be down by 3 scores at that point.

That's ludicrous. Mediocre game? Were you running a loop of the 2006 Super Bowl at your house?

I'm with Cris Collinsworth and all of the NFL Network guys. In the game I watched, Roethlisberger was outstanding . . . even with his best receiver almost totally out of the game plan. But that's to be expected with one of the best QBs in the game. He's just a hell of a football player.

Heading into the last drive Roethlisberger was 15/22 for 180yds with 0 TDs and 1 INT, and two more passes that he was lucky weren't picked (one of which should've been an easy 40 yard TD with a decent throw).

He played great....on two drives during the course of the entire game. But as usual, that's all Pittsburgh's defense needs.

But two years from now all we're going to hear about is how Big Ben "won" the Super Bowl. All on his own. Because people have this crazy mythology of associating super bowl wins with quarterback wins.

Odd. He started the game 8/9 for 122 yards on the first two drives, and he was awesome on the final drive. That's three terrific drives right there. In between, the Steelers took the air out of the ball and the offense fell flat.

Either way, finishing with a 70% completion rate, 8.53 yards per attempt, and yet another game-winning drive is an outstanding performance.

And, yes, Big Ben did "win" the Super Bowl. You better get used to that.

Edited by Fear & Loathing

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