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Mortgage Rates (9 Viewers)

Ron Swanson said:
What about mortgages does USAA not do well in your experience?
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So, as you realized, I meant USAA when I typed USDAA. First, I have heard great thing about their insurance more about their service and claims process not as much about their pricing but overall good marks on insurance for them. I still prefer going to an Insurance Broker but to be fair, I did not shop USAA when I did my own insurance shopping. I don't get too excited about the insurance quotes I see one way or the other because it is very hard to compare apples to apples on those as I don't know all that is being covered or not covered and at what levels. 

For their mortgages, the big issue is I (and other brokers around the country whom we compare notes on VA lenders as a way to try to protect vets) have seen higher rates and costs than what your average broker is going to be able to do.  They are not HORRIBLE like Veterans United and New Day but they are not going to be the best either and the margin from a broker is pretty big to add up to real money. 

I seem to remember that they sell the servicing of their loans too but I am not 100% sure on that. They has been a rumor that they will be shutting down their mortgage division which actually in this rate environment would be absolutely shocking. Pretty much everyone and their mothers dog is getting into the mortgage game right now because there is easy money in refi's and there are something like 30 million households out there right now that could benefit from a refi. That is a lot of business to be had... anyways... bunny trail.... rate and cost is a bit higher with USAA.

 
skycriesmary said:
Sorry for needing to clarify more, the 375k loan is actually a refi on my primary residence (but the funds were used to purchase the rental), the 100k loan was for the rental (Down Payment).
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Ok, so.... we are talking about your primary residence with a 1st of $375K and a 2nd of $100K?

If I am not still confused and that is the case, then I don't see a need to refi still in a mortgage. You could look to refi the 2nd. I would check with local credit unions. They tend to be the best with rates for equity loans. The CU I have my equity loan at right now is offering a 5 yr at 4.74% at 85% LTV.  If you are aggressively paying that down and expect to have it paid off in a couple of years, then you could go to a HELOC and get prime + 0 and maybe even a low intro rate too. Prime being 4.75% currently. And you should be able to do either with no cost. 

 
#29: Zillow SUCKS. Don't even bother with it. (same with Zulia and Redfin) They are nothing more than a lead generation platform for realtors and lenders. The two things that they are suppose to do, they can't do half way decently. a) Their Zestimates are poo. Absolutely worthless. They do more harm than good in you trying to get an idea of the value of your home. b) Their listings are just as much poo. They do not have access to MLS directly (MLS is where all the realtors get the listings) so they have to go to third parties to get listings. It is not uncommon for properties to be listed for sale their and have been sold months previously. Or by the time a listing shows up there, it can already be under contract. On top of that there are a good amount of errors on the info of the properties. Just avoid. If you want to go to an online site, use realtor.com or homesnap.com both of these have direct access to MLS and are updated like every 5 minutes or so. 

 
Chadstroma said:
#29: Zillow SUCKS. Don't even bother with it. (same with Zulia and Redfin) They are nothing more than a lead generation platform for realtors and lenders. The two things that they are suppose to do, they can't do half way decently. a) Their Zestimates are poo. Absolutely worthless. They do more harm than good in you trying to get an idea of the value of your home. b) Their listings are just as much poo. They do not have access to MLS directly (MLS is where all the realtors get the listings) so they have to go to third parties to get listings. It is not uncommon for properties to be listed for sale their and have been sold months previously. Or by the time a listing shows up there, it can already be under contract. On top of that there are a good amount of errors on the info of the properties. Just avoid. If you want to go to an online site, use realtor.com or homesnap.com both of these have direct access to MLS and are updated like every 5 minutes or so. 
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Zillow is good in Texas for price history.  You can get a good sense of what the house listed and sold for in prior 20 years or more which helps alot. 

 
Curious if you or others have any input on the following. I emailed but the people are out of the office. My principal on my old loan was one amount, I paid December already, and on my new loan the principal is $2400 more than the previous principal. Unless there is more detail I need to provide, what answer can I expect from the loan people?

I was told my payment would go down and my principal would stay the same yet I see this difference. Any ideas? Any resolutions to plan for?

 
Mario Kart said:
Curious if you or others have any input on the following. I emailed but the people are out of the office. My principal on my old loan was one amount, I paid December already, and on my new loan the principal is $2400 more than the previous principal. Unless there is more detail I need to provide, what answer can I expect from the loan people?

I was told my payment would go down and my principal would stay the same yet I see this difference. Any ideas? Any resolutions to plan for?
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It sounds like you are looking at the split of principle and interest on your payment with the amortization. As you pay you mortgage month to month, your amortization will shift from most of the payment covering interest and as your principal amount makes progress in paying down your loan, then more and more of your payment goes towards paying the principle amount versus the interest. If you make a principal only payment, that will speed up the amortization with more and more of your payment making progress against the principal amount. It sounds like you have it backwards, your payment will remain the same, always, but your loan amount will reduced. The amount paid on principal will increase month to month and the interest amount will decrease. 

You can see an amortization schedule with any one of the numerous calculators out there like this one: https://www.bankrate.com/calculators/mortgages/amortization-calculator.aspx

Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying or asking. 

 
Chadstroma said:
So, as you realized, I meant USAA when I typed USDAA. First, I have heard great thing about their insurance more about their service and claims process not as much about their pricing but overall good marks on insurance for them. I still prefer going to an Insurance Broker but to be fair, I did not shop USAA when I did my own insurance shopping. I don't get too excited about the insurance quotes I see one way or the other because it is very hard to compare apples to apples on those as I don't know all that is being covered or not covered and at what levels. 

For their mortgages, the big issue is I (and other brokers around the country whom we compare notes on VA lenders as a way to try to protect vets) have seen higher rates and costs than what your average broker is going to be able to do.  They are not HORRIBLE like Veterans United and New Day but they are not going to be the best either and the margin from a broker is pretty big to add up to real money. 

I seem to remember that they sell the servicing of their loans too but I am not 100% sure on that. They has been a rumor that they will be shutting down their mortgage division which actually in this rate environment would be absolutely shocking. Pretty much everyone and their mothers dog is getting into the mortgage game right now because there is easy money in refi's and there are something like 30 million households out there right now that could benefit from a refi. That is a lot of business to be had... anyways... bunny trail.... rate and cost is a bit higher with USAA.
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When we looked for a mortgage, USAA was half a percent higher than others. 

And their yield on savings is abysmal. 

If it wasn't for their customer service, I don't think they'd survive.  We have insurance through them because as a bundle their price is better than others we've seen, but not by so much that I'd have to stay with them if I could find one place for mortgage, savings and insurance. But we've been with them over 20 years, and it's just easier to keep them as our primary account. 

 
-OZ- said:
When we looked for a mortgage, USAA was half a percent higher than others. 

And their yield on savings is abysmal. 

If it wasn't for their customer service, I don't think they'd survive.  We have insurance through them because as a bundle their price is better than others we've seen, but not by so much that I'd have to stay with them if I could find one place for mortgage, savings and insurance. But we've been with them over 20 years, and it's just easier to keep them as our primary account. 
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When I went to PNC (my bank) to get a wire transfer to pay off my 2nd, the lady told me about their refinance plan.   The one neat thing is that you could choose any number of years but just like for you, the rate for the number years I was going to do with lenderfi was half a percent higher.   I was a little relieved b/c I was afraid they'd come in lower and then I'd have to go through the process of trying to get out of what I had going on with lenderfi.  I have no idea why anyone would go with someone with such a higher rate.

 
-OZ- said:
When we looked for a mortgage, USAA was half a percent higher than others. 

And their yield on savings is abysmal. 

If it wasn't for their customer service, I don't think they'd survive.  We have insurance through them because as a bundle their price is better than others we've seen, but not by so much that I'd have to stay with them if I could find one place for mortgage, savings and insurance. But we've been with them over 20 years, and it's just easier to keep them as our primary account. 
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There is really no benefit in mortgage,  savings and insurance all at one spot. I mean, not even convenience. You will never call one number and take care of all three. You would get transferred around for one product or another.

Their service and reputation is really what USAA thrives off of. I bet if you contacted an independent insurance broker you could find some large savings. I think I mentioned it in the first write up that they were one of the few insurance places I did not personally shop but to beat out guys like Allstate or State Farm isn't all that much of a hard thing to do.  

 
NutterButter said:
When I went to PNC (my bank) to get a wire transfer to pay off my 2nd, the lady told me about their refinance plan.   The one neat thing is that you could choose any number of years but just like for you, the rate for the number years I was going to do with lenderfi was half a percent higher.   I was a little relieved b/c I was afraid they'd come in lower and then I'd have to go through the process of trying to get out of what I had going on with lenderfi.  I have no idea why anyone would go with someone with such a higher rate.
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A pick your term is not an uncommon product offering. 

As for getting a higher rate. It really comes down to ignorance. Not ignorance in the derogatory sense but just the "don't know better" sense, which is why I wrote out that manifesto above. Quicken is the largest mortgage lender in the nation right now. They are HORRIBLE. They routinely screw people over on a daily basis with higher rate and/or charging needless origination points and fees. How do they get away with it? Well, they are an amazing marketing company. They really are. In fact, I describe the company in two ways. First: They are a great marketing company that happens to do mortgages badly. Second: Lies, more lies and marketing. That is Quicken. 

People tend to choose their mortgages through poor routes: Commercials that they see (Quicken, Veterans United, New Day.... companies spending heavily on commercials because they screw over their consumers for the profit), Friends or family members who recommend someone (random but almost always their friend or family member don't know much more than they do and just had a pleasant experience with a lender), a realtor recommending their 'preferred lender' (random and very often is just the lender that hands over the biggest check for 'co-marketing' and that is usually retail which spends heavily in this because it is the only way they can compete), a builder saying to use their 'preferred lender' for special free upgrades (random but the worst of the worst when it comes to screwing people over, the builder is getting a kickback and the loan is costly), and going to their bank (random but usually the big banks Citi, BofA, Chase, Wells, US Bank, PNC, etc where the retail set up us usually going to work against you unless you are doing a jumbo where you can get a good deal if you get roped into their wealth management depts).

I had a client not too long ago that I helped get their credit ready to buy. When they went they had a family member tell them to use a particular company. The client ghosted me. Would not even give me the chance to compare. I know the company she went to and I have routinely beat them easily with a large margin. This client not only didn't have the decency to let me compete after helping her over a long period of time but listened so blindly to a family member that it has cost her thousands of dollars for no reason. (karma I guess) But when it comes down to it... people just do not know. 

 
Rattle and Hum said:
@Chadstroma thx for the info. Any idea what commission to list a home is if going through HomesForHeroes? Typical in our area is 6%. 
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This is a better question to ask a realtor as this falls outside of my expertise. However, 6% is pretty much the high end these days and what was considered 'industry normal' not too long ago. You can get a listing agent to go lower though for sure. I don't know how much you get back from the commission though in that program, so it may even out. I would call a few local realty shops in the area and tell them what you got and what they would do for listing. Let them fight over it. 

I am not familiar with the sell side of Homes for Heroes, I can say on the buyer side the deal isn't bad at all for the consumer for the realtor part of it. For the lender part, chances are high that you will end up spending much more than the $500 you 'get' back from them in higher rates and costs- but not always. I would shop the lender and figure out if that is worth it or not. 

 
Chadstroma said:
Rates took a dive today. FYI
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So what happens if someone is in the middle of a refi process when rates go down? Can the borrower take advantage of a rate change in their favor or are they generally locked in at the rate when they signed the initial paperwork? Asking for a friend.

 
soothsayer said:
So what happens if someone is in the middle of a refi process when rates go down? Can the borrower take advantage of a rate change in their favor or are they generally locked in at the rate when they signed the initial paperwork? Asking for a friend.
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They will make money when they sell the loan. (the bank)

 
soothsayer said:
So what happens if someone is in the middle of a refi process when rates go down? Can the borrower take advantage of a rate change in their favor or are they generally locked in at the rate when they signed the initial paperwork? Asking for a friend.
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That's a fantastic question that a friend has as well.   I believe our friends can back out but they're on the hook for some closing costs.   

 
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soothsayer said:
So what happens if someone is in the middle of a refi process when rates go down? Can the borrower take advantage of a rate change in their favor or are they generally locked in at the rate when they signed the initial paperwork? Asking for a friend.
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Well..... it depends really. If you are locked in then you are locked there are options but it won't come at a cost to you. If it is a significant difference and you are working with a broker, you can discuss with them about switching lenders. If you are with a direct lender or bank then your options are basically to change lenders and start over. Unless it was a streamline you paid for an appraisal. That appraisal may or may not be able to be used with another lender or you may end up having to pay for another one. 

 
Rates did edge back up today though. For the most part roughly about an eighth of a point back up. 

Rats took a dive yesterday due to reaction of negative comments from the President on a deal with China. Markets seemed to recover from that a bit today. 

 
Chadstroma said:
There is really no benefit in mortgage,  savings and insurance all at one spot. I mean, not even convenience. You will never call one number and take care of all three. You would get transferred around for one product or another.

Their service and reputation is really what USAA thrives off of. I bet if you contacted an independent insurance broker you could find some large savings. I think I mentioned it in the first write up that they were one of the few insurance places I did not personally shop but to beat out guys like Allstate or State Farm isn't all that much of a hard thing to do.  
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But USAA insurance is mutual so members do get rebates back if claims are lower than expected vs. premium collections.  And they don't argue or shortchange coverage or defense.  Having been through a multiple seven figure claim with them I can assure you there is no other company I want at my back.

 
Chadstroma said:
Well..... it depends really. If you are locked in then you are locked there are options but it won't come at a cost to you. If it is a significant difference and you are working with a broker, you can discuss with them about switching lenders. If you are with a direct lender or bank then your options are basically to change lenders and start over. Unless it was a streamline you paid for an appraisal. That appraisal may or may not be able to be used with another lender or you may end up having to pay for another one. 
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So all the 3rd party title costs, the lender just eats that if you decide to walk away?

 
Ron Swanson said:
But USAA insurance is mutual so members do get rebates back if claims are lower than expected vs. premium collections.  And they don't argue or shortchange coverage or defense.  Having been through a multiple seven figure claim with them I can assure you there is no other company I want at my back.
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That is why I said their service and reputation is what they thrive off of. I have no first hand experience. I have heard about cracks in their service recently though. A big article not too long ago about them getting a F rating with BBB or something along those lines.

 
@Chadstroma, the lender who originated my loan about 5 years ago reached out to me for a refi.  How should I approach them, and how can I ensure I get the best deal on a refi?  I always thought they were a broker, but from the website it says they are a lender (First Home Mortgage).  The loan is currently owned by Chase.  I dealt with the local office back then and they did give excellent service.

 
The Z Machine said:
@Chadstroma, the lender who originated my loan about 5 years ago reached out to me for a refi.  How should I approach them, and how can I ensure I get the best deal on a refi?  I always thought they were a broker, but from the website it says they are a lender (First Home Mortgage).  The loan is currently owned by Chase.  I dealt with the local office back then and they did give excellent service.
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I was not familiar with them. I googled them and they are a direct retail lender (you can tell in the "about us" section a lot of the times if you know the lingo). They are the same kind of guys that try to recruit me by telling me how they can charge more for better comp for me. 

Best route to go? Go ahead and move forward with them since they did a good job. Then wjen the issue the Loan Estimate, take that to a local broker. You can search www.FindAMortgageBroker.com for one or ask me for one in your state. Then see what they can do. Most likely the broker will give a significantly better offer. 

From there decide if their service is worth the difference in cost. These are the kind of guys I hear say "I don't sell rate, I sell service" as if it makes them better. I don't sell rate either... but mine is still better than what they give.

 
Oh, and as for them saying they are a broker... lots do. Some can actually broker out loans too but they often do so as a last result because they CAN'T make as much money as they CAN if they don't broker as the broker agreements are capped where direct loans and correspondence is not. 

 
Slapdash said:
@Chadstroma, love that stuff above.  Most people in the know will do best with a broker.  That is all I do since my first.
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I think I mentioned it above but both my wife and myself worked at banks when we bought our two houses. Both times I went to a broker over our own banks even with the employee discounts involved. 

When I worked at banks previous to 2008, being someone who sucks at sales and it painfully honest and upfront, I would tell customers when it came up that they would be able to get a better deal from a broker IF they knew what they were doing. If they did not then most likely they would get screwed over and cost themselves tons of money but with me at the bank, here is the offer, no games, no surprises, no hidden things because banks are more regulated than brokers. 

Now... fast forward to today. Brokers are so much more restricted on what they can and can not do when it comes to mortgages versus banks in the sense of rate/cost. There is more freedom to brokers in another sense though as we can access lenders outside of QM safe harbor but that is a whole different discussion. 

I do bankers and realtors loans all the time. If you got into a Facebook group for Mortgage Loan Officers that was mixed between retail and brokers, it becomes very obvious very fast which everyone knows has the best rates/cost. It comes down to overheard. Brokers aren't paying for a LO, their boss, their boss's boss and their boss's boss's boss and then CEO's fifth summer home in Tahiti plus give some to the shareholders. It is the broker split and that split is the same regardless of how many people the broker has working for them or doesn't (Some broker/owners are one man/woman shops.... some have tons of people) and as I mentioned, brokers are capped out. Retail just charges more to cover the overhead. 

 
@Chadstroma or others.

Will be buying a home in a month. Got prequalled with local broker and PNC. Great credit, 480 loan, 30 yr. 20% dn. Both quoted 3.875 for 30 yr./no points

While I have my credit unlocked, I'd like to get one more quote. Who would you recommend?

 
cosjobs said:
@Chadstroma or others.

Will be buying a home in a month. Got prequalled with local broker and PNC. Great credit, 480 loan, 30 yr. 20% dn. Both quoted 3.875 for 30 yr./no points

While I have my credit unlocked, I'd like to get one more quote. Who would you recommend?
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What state are you in? I most likely can recommend an individual broker. 

 
I own a preschool business that operates and occupies in a residential home.  Planning to buy the property in the near future,  is there some way to secure residental loan vs commercial since rates are lower?  There’s a bathroom and partially finished basement so was thinking of converting to a living space and saying I plan to move in. 

 
stlrams said:
I own a preschool business that operates and occupies in a residential home.  Planning to buy the property in the near future,  is there some way to secure residental loan vs commercial since rates are lower?  There’s a bathroom and partially finished basement so was thinking of converting to a living space and saying I plan to move in. 
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Saying you are going to do something without the intent is mortgage fraud. The likelihood of it causing an issue is extremely low but it is what it is. I will not assist in any way to do anything like that. Wiki does a good job of explaining what mortgage fraud is: 

Mortgage fraud refers to an intentional misstatement, misrepresentation, or omission of information relied upon by an underwriter or lender to fund, purchase, or insure a loan secured by real property.

Criminal offenses may be prosecuted in either federal or state court, and are typically charged under wire fraud, bank fraud, mail fraud, or money launderingstatutes, with penalties of imprisonment for up to 30 years per offense.[1] As the incidence of mortgage fraud has risen over the past few years,[2] states have also begun to enact their own penalties for mortgage fraud.[3]

 
cosjobs said:
@Chadstroma or others.

Will be buying a home in a month. Got prequalled with local broker and PNC. Great credit, 480 loan, 30 yr. 20% dn. Both quoted 3.875 for 30 yr./no points

While I have my credit unlocked, I'd like to get one more quote. Who would you recommend?
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What means 480 loan?  

 
cosjobs said:
@Chadstroma or others.

Will be buying a home in a month. Got prequalled with local broker and PNC. Great credit, 480 loan, 30 yr. 20% dn. Both quoted 3.875 for 30 yr./no points

While I have my credit unlocked, I'd like to get one more quote. Who would you recommend?
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What means 480 loan?  

 
cosjobs said:
I think it's over. Broker said something about APR and down payment getting better in January next year. I think they are changing some limits or something
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It changes every year.  If you are on the jumbo bubble you maybe should just wait it out. 

 
Chemical X said:
go with pnc so i can access your account.....bwahahaha
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I like PNC. We parked some money there when they were offering better interest return s on savings accounts than most CDs. Then they bought our mortgage from whoever held it and they've been pretty good at that, too. But they look about a quarter point high (for comparable loans) from competitors.

 
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