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Toyota Develops Improved Hydrogen Fuel-Cell Vehicle (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter cstu
- Start date
Johnny Detroit
Footballguy
wow. i know ford had the top one at 350 not too long ago.
this is a good thing. take that evil canadian oil companies.
this is a good thing. take that evil canadian oil companies.
SHIZNITTTT
Footballguy
So when can the average joe get one of these cars?
Johnny Detroit
Footballguy
you can sit in one at an auto show. just like all the other cool ideas and cars that you never see on the roads.
Ozymandias
Footballguy
Yeah, it runs for 516 miles and then explodes, just like the Hindenburg...
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cstu
Footballguy
Ozymandias
Footballguy
Right. You can't have any fun at all...
SofaKings
Footballguy
oddball
Smart
Agreed. It's not like they had exclusive rights to alternative type fuel for cars for 10 years and did absolutely nothing with it.
Dragons
Delusions of Grandeur
I'm going to take a wild guess and say that there are no hydrogen fueling stations for mass consumers to fill up their cars.Do you want to ask why there are no hydrogen fueling stations?
Bouncing Beatnik
Footballguy
I, for one, welcome our new Japanese overlords, and as a trusted citizen, I can be useful in rounding up other Americans to work in their underground hydrogen mines.
beer 30
Footballguy
Agree completely. Luckily there are only about 6 people employeed by both companies so it won't have any kind of impact on the economy.
Linus Scrimmage
Footballguy
AWESOME!!
when it's ready gas will be 2.00 a gallon and everyone will be driving SUV's
when it's ready gas will be 2.00 a gallon and everyone will be driving SUV's
beer 30
Footballguy
I recall the Japanese already tried this move once and it didn't work out so well, maybe I'm wrong :(
Linus Scrimmage
Footballguy
Why doesn't someone just invent the flinstones car?
LHUCKS
Footballguy
sounds like that's an easy money maker...leverage the space already available at gas stations...I would be investing in that if I were a Toyota or a Honda executive. I doubt this is the reason...my guess is that the new technology cited in this article was a necessary technology and/or costs were prohibitive, or still are prohibitive...regardless we need to find a way to make this affordable.
That's what I always thought was the problem with hydrogen. Didn't BMW try something with hydrogen fuel cells awhile back and it didn't work out?I wonder if the federal safety and/or consumer reports have done any crash tests yet on this vehicle.
Edit to add:
Sorry....I was referring to the Honda FCX Clarity.
http://green.yahoo.com/news/ap/20080616/ap...apan_honda.html
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Dragons
Delusions of Grandeur
Hydrogen burns. So does gas. If a hydrogen tank bursts and catches on fire, since hydrogen is lighter than air, it'll shoot a very hot stream of fire straight up into the air. If a gas tank leaks and catches on fire, it'll flow around on the ground. Which is better?
cstu
Footballguy
It's sold by the kg and it's the equivalent in energy to a gallon of gas. Since hydrogen cars are more efficient (the FCX gets 68 miles per kg) they are cheaper to run even with a similar price between hydrogen and gas. The cost is between $4-$5, but the cost should go down quickly once it achieves economies of scale. I've read that $3/kg is possible using nuclear. The problem with it today is that it is produced using natural gas, not really a solution to our long-term energy problem.Also, the cost of hydrogen produced today from wind power (without any subsidies) would be less than the equivalent of gasoline at $3.50 per gallon (using traditional combustion engines).
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Interesting...assuming the lease costs are accurate this is actually doable right now...we need to start mass producing these bad boys.If anyone finds the Post article, please provide link here.
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saintfool
Dead sexy
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Wonder why it takes 10 years to mass produce? If you can make 200 now, why couldn't you make 50,000 in in five years?
The American government needs to find a way to expedite this ASAP...it's a matter of national security and economic health.
What's the f'ing holdup here?
The American government needs to find a way to expedite this ASAP...it's a matter of national security and economic health.
What's the f'ing holdup here?
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The Commish
Footballguy
The cynic in me says it's obvious. However, it's possible that the manufacturing plants will have to be updated/reconfigured etc. Then even with the cars produced, the stations will have to be upgraded/reconfigured as well.
GM already has their hydrogen celled test run cars on the road. I'm shocked you didn't research this before you put your foot in your mouth.It's so weird that Ford and GM aren't all over this.
videoguy505
Footballguy
Congress.
cstu
Footballguy
Companies won't do it without some governmental incentive and I don't blame them. The fault rests with the leadership of the country who were asleep at the wheel and building bridges to nowhere instead of protecting our national security. The sad thing is that the cost of updating plants and building filling pumps is a drop in the bucket to the $500B a year we are sending overseas. We're talking the cost of 2-3 months in Iraq to free us from oil once and for all.
jabarony
Footballguy
Moron. Ford has had them for years for fleet sales. They are not publicly available because there is no H2 infrastructure (where are you going to fill up? No reason for your average gas station owner to invest in a H-delivery pump that would service 2 customers a week. Not to metion the public safety 'concerns' over refueling a 'bomb' in your car), and they have been cost prohibitive (wouldn't sell at $20k over an identical gas vehicle, though that price is coming down significantly)... Also, as far as Hydrogen saving us from our energy worries, where do you think that H2 comes from? In fact many
LHUCKS
Footballguy
sounds like they are behind the 8 ball...again.GM already has their hydrogen celled test run cars on the road.It's so weird that Ford and GM aren't all over this.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
If true, wtf is going on here...time to get this ship moving....like yesterday.
Unlucky
Phenom
Just playing devil's advocate:
1. It's been mentioned a little bit, but what are the sources of hydrogen and their environmental impact?
2. How bad for the environment are the batteries? Big batteries = lots of mining = bad sometimes. (most of the time)
3. Durability/longevity of the engines? Just wondering - maybe they are cleaner and thus last longer?
4. Distribution of hydrogen? Since it's new, we should consider new methods of distribution if they are more efficient.
Before we anoint these to be the cars of the future, we should consider the longterm impacts here.
1. It's been mentioned a little bit, but what are the sources of hydrogen and their environmental impact?
2. How bad for the environment are the batteries? Big batteries = lots of mining = bad sometimes. (most of the time)
3. Durability/longevity of the engines? Just wondering - maybe they are cleaner and thus last longer?
4. Distribution of hydrogen? Since it's new, we should consider new methods of distribution if they are more efficient.
Before we anoint these to be the cars of the future, we should consider the longterm impacts here.
GM had the Chevy Equinox hydrogen celled vehicles on the road last year for testing. Speculation is that this can be in full production in about 6 years. As much grief as GM gets, and deserves, they are ahead of the game on this one. With 14 new models coming out in the next 18 months and a commitment to the hydrogen cells, it appears they have a long term plan that might actually work.sounds like they are behind the 8 ball...again.GM already has their hydrogen celled test run cars on the road.It's so weird that Ford and GM aren't all over this.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Good to hear, I'm obviously rooting for the American manufacturers, but wont feel sorry for them if they drop the ball here...it would probably be a death blow.Six years sounds better than 10...with a little government incentive we might be able to make this happen even quicker than that.Why aren't more people talking about this...this fixes so many problems so quickly it should be the ONLY thing people are talking about.GM had the Chevy Equinox hydrogen celled vehicles on the road last year for testing. Speculation is that this can be in full production in about 6 years. As much grief as GM gets, and deserves, they are ahead of the game on this one. With 14 new models coming out in the next 18 months and a commitment to the hydrogen cells, it appears they have a long term plan that might actually work.sounds like they are behind the 8 ball...again.GM already has their hydrogen celled test run cars on the road.It's so weird that Ford and GM aren't all over this.
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LHUCKS
Footballguy
1. you need electricity to create the Hydrogen, so we would need more nuclear(ideally)...it would be a complete transformation of our energy processes.2. Why do batteries require mining? Lithium?3. Durability/longevity,
4. Haven't thought about distribution...a good idea to re-think the gas station model though...land costs money which jacks up prices.
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The main obstacle will be setting up the infrastructure for the new fueling stations and getting the majority of people onboard. GM is opening a fueling station in L.A. (I believe) that should be functioning by late summer/early fall.Good to hear, I'm obviously rooting for the American manufacturers, but wont feel sorry for them if they drop the ball here...it would probably be a death blow.Six years sounds better than 10...with a little government incentive we might be able to make this happen even quicker than that.GM had the Chevy Equinox hydrogen celled vehicles on the road last year for testing. Speculation is that this can be in full production in about 6 years. As much grief as GM gets, and deserves, they are ahead of the game on this one. With 14 new models coming out in the next 18 months and a commitment to the hydrogen cells, it appears they have a long term plan that might actually work.sounds like they are behind the 8 ball...again.GM already has their hydrogen celled test run cars on the road.It's so weird that Ford and GM aren't all over this.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
Why can't we leverage existing gas stations? Is it a competition thing? Hydrogen less profitable than gasoline?The main obstacle will be setting up the infrastructure for the new fueling stations and getting the majority of people onboard. GM is opening a fueling station in L.A. (I believe) that should be functioning by late summer/early fall.Good to hear, I'm obviously rooting for the American manufacturers, but wont feel sorry for them if they drop the ball here...it would probably be a death blow.Six years sounds better than 10...with a little government incentive we might be able to make this happen even quicker than that.GM had the Chevy Equinox hydrogen celled vehicles on the road last year for testing. Speculation is that this can be in full production in about 6 years. As much grief as GM gets, and deserves, they are ahead of the game on this one. With 14 new models coming out in the next 18 months and a commitment to the hydrogen cells, it appears they have a long term plan that might actually work.sounds like they are behind the 8 ball...again.GM already has their hydrogen celled test run cars on the road.It's so weird that Ford and GM aren't all over this.
LHUCKS
Footballguy
would the fueling station be compatible with other manufacturers such as Honda etc. ?? Just curious.The main obstacle will be setting up the infrastructure for the new fueling stations and getting the majority of people onboard. GM is opening a fueling station in L.A. (I believe) that should be functioning by late summer/early fall.Good to hear, I'm obviously rooting for the American manufacturers, but wont feel sorry for them if they drop the ball here...it would probably be a death blow.Six years sounds better than 10...with a little government incentive we might be able to make this happen even quicker than that.GM had the Chevy Equinox hydrogen celled vehicles on the road last year for testing. Speculation is that this can be in full production in about 6 years. As much grief as GM gets, and deserves, they are ahead of the game on this one. With 14 new models coming out in the next 18 months and a commitment to the hydrogen cells, it appears they have a long term plan that might actually work.sounds like they are behind the 8 ball...again.GM already has their hydrogen celled test run cars on the road.It's so weird that Ford and GM aren't all over this.
cstu
Footballguy
Yes, there's a standard design.http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/hydrogen-fi...n-irvine-ca.htmwould the fueling station be compatible with other manufacturers such as Honda etc. ?? Just curious.The main obstacle will be setting up the infrastructure for the new fueling stations and getting the majority of people onboard. GM is opening a fueling station in L.A. (I believe) that should be functioning by late summer/early fall.Good to hear, I'm obviously rooting for the American manufacturers, but wont feel sorry for them if they drop the ball here...it would probably be a death blow.Six years sounds better than 10...with a little government incentive we might be able to make this happen even quicker than that.GM had the Chevy Equinox hydrogen celled vehicles on the road last year for testing. Speculation is that this can be in full production in about 6 years. As much grief as GM gets, and deserves, they are ahead of the game on this one. With 14 new models coming out in the next 18 months and a commitment to the hydrogen cells, it appears they have a long term plan that might actually work.sounds like they are behind the 8 ball...again.GM already has their hydrogen celled test run cars on the road.It's so weird that Ford and GM aren't all over this.
Who will want to give up a business that can soak the population as much as the gas companies do to take a chance on a new product that the public hasn't even really accepted yet? The gas companies won't cooperate knowing that the population will stick to something they know and is convenient, even if it's expensive.Here's an article from last week about GM's efforts.Link.Why can't we leverage existing gas stations? Is it a competition thing? Hydrogen less profitable than gasoline?The main obstacle will be setting up the infrastructure for the new fueling stations and getting the majority of people onboard. GM is opening a fueling station in L.A. (I believe) that should be functioning by late summer/early fall.Good to hear, I'm obviously rooting for the American manufacturers, but wont feel sorry for them if they drop the ball here...it would probably be a death blow.Six years sounds better than 10...with a little government incentive we might be able to make this happen even quicker than that.GM had the Chevy Equinox hydrogen celled vehicles on the road last year for testing. Speculation is that this can be in full production in about 6 years. As much grief as GM gets, and deserves, they are ahead of the game on this one. With 14 new models coming out in the next 18 months and a commitment to the hydrogen cells, it appears they have a long term plan that might actually work.sounds like they are behind the 8 ball...again.GM already has their hydrogen celled test run cars on the road.It's so weird that Ford and GM aren't all over this.
Dragons
Delusions of Grandeur
Most gas stations are not owned by "big oil" and they don't make much on a gallon of gas. For them, it's mass distribution and mini-mart sales.Who will want to give up a business that can soak the population as much as the gas companies do to take a chance on a new product that the public hasn't even really accepted yet? The gas companies won't cooperate knowing that the population will stick to something they know and is convenient, even if it's expensive.Here's an article from last week about GM's efforts.Link.Why can't we leverage existing gas stations? Is it a competition thing? Hydrogen less profitable than gasoline?The main obstacle will be setting up the infrastructure for the new fueling stations and getting the majority of people onboard. GM is opening a fueling station in L.A. (I believe) that should be functioning by late summer/early fall.Good to hear, I'm obviously rooting for the American manufacturers, but wont feel sorry for them if they drop the ball here...it would probably be a death blow.Six years sounds better than 10...with a little government incentive we might be able to make this happen even quicker than that.GM had the Chevy Equinox hydrogen celled vehicles on the road last year for testing. Speculation is that this can be in full production in about 6 years. As much grief as GM gets, and deserves, they are ahead of the game on this one. With 14 new models coming out in the next 18 months and a commitment to the hydrogen cells, it appears they have a long term plan that might actually work.sounds like they are behind the 8 ball...again.GM already has their hydrogen celled test run cars on the road.It's so weird that Ford and GM aren't all over this.
scoobygang
Footballguy
One other question. Isn't water vapor a greenhouse gas?
cstu
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
This is what I was referring to by "my cynicism. I have heard rumblings for years that oil companies have bought up patent after patent and "put them on the shelf". I can't prove it in any fashion, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least.
cstu
Footballguy
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