Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Matt Waldman

Josh Gordon Everything Thread

Recommended Posts

Just spitballing here, but if a state passed a law that professional athletes could not be tested for illegal substances, would the NFL be screwed for any teams in that state? Suddenly, say the Vikings, all of a sudden have a bunch of roided up potheads playing for them and the NfL could do nothing about it?

1. The league would sue the state and win.

On what basis?

On the Basis that the NFL is a Private employer and can set what ever standards they wish for their employees. States cannot demand an employer to prohibit the use of a substance.

So ... no law in support of your claim? Dismissed

Maybe you should check the Denver statutes. Employers can and are firing employees for off the job use of marijuana. Employees have pressed the issue and the EMPLOYER wins every time... DISMISSED

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still won.

Yes, you did win. At being the biggest punchline of the SP offseason. Way to go!

:lol::bowtie:

oh, ye of short sight...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right. But at some point, rules have to matter and violating rules over and over have to matter. Players supported the rules and punishments. Gordon valued pot over catching TDs for his team and making money. He's an idiot and this is the unfortunate and inevitable consequence.

And don't fret too much. You'll see plenty of TDs this year.

To the league, sure. To the team that pays him, sure. But, as a fan, of course I hope he sues and wins. Hopefully it will at least get the ball rolling and the outdated practice will be addressed. I don't expect it to happen, but I want it to.

Wait, what? The outdated practice? Of what? Enforcing punishment for rules that are (repeatedly) broken?

Testing. The rule itself. But you knew that.

Edited by Concept Coop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still won.

Yes, you did win. At being the biggest punchline of the SP offseason. Way to go!

:lol::bowtie:

oh, ye of short sight...

:golfclap:

look around you.

entertainment. laughter. conversation. comradery.

it is what it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Josh Gordon is pursuing 'all legal options' a source says, but another says 'he has no shot' dlvr.it/6l5PlF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still won.

Yes, you did win. At being the biggest punchline of the SP offseason. Way to go!

:lol::bowtie:

oh, ye of short sight...

:golfclap:

look around you.

entertainment. laughter. conversation. comradery.

it is what it is.

Oh absolutely. Please, continue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is complete bulls$#t... Way to go NFL suspending someone over a plant that in no way improves their performance on the field. A plant! While Ray Rice can hit a woman so hard she gets knocked out and only miss 2 games. I'm sorry but we live in one hell of a f$#ked up world.

:lmao:

We sure live in one hell of a f$#ked up world where people get worked up over a suspension difference because they own Josh Gordon a fantasy league. You might want to put some perspective in your world and realize that it is just fantasy football, i.e. a game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right. But at some point, rules have to matter and violating rules over and over have to matter. Players supported the rules and punishments. Gordon valued pot over catching TDs for his team and making money. He's an idiot and this is the unfortunate and inevitable consequence.

And don't fret too much. You'll see plenty of TDs this year.

To the league, sure. To the team that pays him, sure. But, as a fan, of course I hope he sues and wins. Hopefully it will at least get the ball rolling and the outdated practice will be addressed. I don't expect it to happen, but I want it to.

Wait, what? The outdated practice? Of what? Enforcing punishment for rules that are (repeatedly) broken?

Testing. The rule itself. But you knew that.

Oh. Well, in that case, perhaps the players might want to advocate for permissible drug use in the next round of collective bargaining so that they're, you know..not outdated and all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

one thing the NFL needs to change is not letting the players be around the team while they are suspended. They make a bad situation worse, these troubled guys need to be around the team for a support system.

They screw up suspend them, that's fine, but don't take them completely away from the one thing that could keep them on the right track.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is complete bulls$#t... Way to go NFL suspending someone over a plant that in no way improves their performance on the field. A plant! While Ray Rice can hit a woman so hard she gets knocked out and only miss 2 games. I'm sorry but we live in one hell of a f$#ked up world.

:lmao:

We sure live in one hell of a f$#ked up world where people get worked up over a suspension difference because they own Josh Gordon a fantasy league. You might want to put some perspective in your world and realize that it is just fantasy football, i.e. a game.

Some people treat football like it's a matter of life and death.

I assure you, it's much more serious than that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

one thing the NFL needs to change is not letting the players be around the team while they are suspended. They make a bad situation worse, these troubled guys need to be around the team for a support system.

They screw up suspend them, that's fine, but don't take them completely away from the one thing that could keep them on the right track.

A lot of good being around a team did for Josh Gordon. He's gone through three iterations of teams, and that wasn't enough.

At some point, it's not the NFL's fault, it's not the NFLPA's fault, it's not the team's fault, it's not society's fault. At some point, the focus has to square on the individual, and he has to own that he has a problem, and he has to make it a point to do something about it. On his own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have a gut feeling the whole Gordon saga is not even close to done... Perhaps something in the coming day or two

Hasn't you proven what a clown you are in the last 150 pages??? Why continue? We get it, you are what you are

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

one thing the NFL needs to change is not letting the players be around the team while they are suspended. They make a bad situation worse, these troubled guys need to be around the team for a support system.

They screw up suspend them, that's fine, but don't take them completely away from the one thing that could keep them on the right track.

A lot of good being around a team did for Josh Gordon. He's gone through three iterations of teams, and that wasn't enough.

At some point, it's not the NFL's fault, it's not the NFLPA's fault, it's not the team's fault, it's not society's fault. At some point, the focus has to square on the individual, and he has to own that he has a problem, and he has to make it a point to do something about it. On his own.

yes, it's 100% his fault, but don't you think he has better odds of turning things around if he's around the team and the thing he loves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

one thing the NFL needs to change is not letting the players be around the team while they are suspended. They make a bad situation worse, these troubled guys need to be around the team for a support system.

They screw up suspend them, that's fine, but don't take them completely away from the one thing that could keep them on the right track.

A lot of good being around a team did for Josh Gordon. He's gone through three iterations of teams, and that wasn't enough.

At some point, it's not the NFL's fault, it's not the NFLPA's fault, it's not the team's fault, it's not society's fault. At some point, the focus has to square on the individual, and he has to own that he has a problem, and he has to make it a point to do something about it. On his own.

yes, it's 100% his fault, but don't you think he has better odds of turning things around if he's around the team and the thing he loves.

didn't work the first five times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

one thing the NFL needs to change is not letting the players be around the team while they are suspended. They make a bad situation worse, these troubled guys need to be around the team for a support system.

They screw up suspend them, that's fine, but don't take them completely away from the one thing that could keep them on the right track.

A lot of good being around a team did for Josh Gordon. He's gone through three iterations of teams, and that wasn't enough.

At some point, it's not the NFL's fault, it's not the NFLPA's fault, it's not the team's fault, it's not society's fault. At some point, the focus has to square on the individual, and he has to own that he has a problem, and he has to make it a point to do something about it. On his own.

yes, it's 100% his fault, but don't you think he has better odds of turning things around if he's around the team and the thing he loves.

How many chances do you think a guy should get?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have a gut feeling the whole Gordon saga is not even close to done... Perhaps something in the coming day or two

Hasn't you proven what a clown you are in the last 150 pages??? Why continue? We get it, you are what you are

No, I hasn't

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still won.

Yes, you did win. At being the biggest punchline of the SP offseason. Way to go!

:lol::bowtie:

oh, ye of short sight...

:golfclap:

look around you.

entertainment. laughter. conversation. comradery.

it is what it is.

Lipstick. Meet a pig. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hater's Rant!!!

YES!!! Just heard the news and cracked open a cold one! Josh is getting the 16 games he DESERVES. My daughter thinks we are throwing a party for her but she's not the reason we are throwing a "Sweet 16"celebration this weekend! Har har! Addicts should not be allowed to play a single snap in the NFL. I want all the players I watch on tv to be drug free so my children can look up to them. Josh Gordon is a demon. If he didn't get a full 16, I was going to write the league. I still think he needs another 16 for the DUI but one gift at a time, right!!! Right?!!! Man, it feels so GOOD to finally watch Soulfly admit defeat. I LIVE for that. To be right in this thread! Nothing gets me going more than being right and someone else being wrong! Hell, I haven't felt so stongly against a person since the OJ Simpson trial. I lost that one so this kind of makes up for it. I am hoping he sues so I can continue to have someone to root against. They let that damn Rice off the hook easy and Prater is suspended for four games (THANK GOD!) I'm running out of people to hate! I hate Trent Richardson because he sucks. I hate Bradford because he is always hurt. I hate Peyton Manning because he dances funny. I hate Tom Brady because he is in New England. I HATE EVERYTHING!!!!!!!! AND IT FEELS GOOD! I WAS RIGHT - YOU WERE WRONG!! YES! Keep this thread going. I am nothing without it! Actually, I hate this forum! HA! Gordon got what he deserved! I would like to think my hate had something to do with that. HIGH five to self! Wait, I am starting to hate myself. I take my high five back.

So you cracked open a "cold one" but frown upon a joint? I guess ya know about maims/deaths from drinking

I know Gordon had an issue w that too, but it isn't viewed the same (to the NFL) which ironically is one of the worst situations 1) Drinkers who rarely drink, and then drive 2) The high tolerance drinkers goin for broke

It may be funny to see tables turned to a degree in the future ie. holding a "six-pack" is legal 12 pk or over and you risk jail (just kidding)

Oh and don't hate! Its too strong a word...

On the bright side, its obvious the NFL Commissioner was raised with a similar understanding ie. No clue what was in an Indians "peace pipe"..

However the Commish would probably drop his jaw if he read stuff about Purple drank esp in TX. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_drank ex. In 2004, the University of Texas found that 8.3% of secondary school students in Texas had taken codeine syrup to get high.

Basically Im admitting that I too see a difference among different "choices" to consume..

p.s. Soulfly has suggested that Gordon would play eight games, and while the Season isn't over yet. Matter of fact, he hasn't missed a reg Season game just yet.

Im pretty sure its a done deal, but very little surprises everyone..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

one thing the NFL needs to change is not letting the players be around the team while they are suspended. They make a bad situation worse, these troubled guys need to be around the team for a support system.

They screw up suspend them, that's fine, but don't take them completely away from the one thing that could keep them on the right track.

A lot of good being around a team did for Josh Gordon. He's gone through three iterations of teams, and that wasn't enough.

At some point, it's not the NFL's fault, it's not the NFLPA's fault, it's not the team's fault, it's not society's fault. At some point, the focus has to square on the individual, and he has to own that he has a problem, and he has to make it a point to do something about it. On his own.

yes, it's 100% his fault, but don't you think he has better odds of turning things around if he's around the team and the thing he loves.

How many chances do you think a guy should get?

for marijuana issues, a lot. he's not hurting anyone around him. yes he's an idiot and i'm not a big fan of him or anything, but i think he should be put in the best possible position to overcome his issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have a gut feeling the whole Gordon saga is not even close to done... Perhaps something in the coming day or two

Hasn't you proven what a clown you are in the last 150 pages??? Why continue? We get it, you are what you are

No, I hasn't

"haven't"...typo...at least I have that excuse. What did you do? Typo 500 posts?

btw...yes you have

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

one thing the NFL needs to change is not letting the players be around the team while they are suspended. They make a bad situation worse, these troubled guys need to be around the team for a support system.

They screw up suspend them, that's fine, but don't take them completely away from the one thing that could keep them on the right track.

A lot of good being around a team did for Josh Gordon. He's gone through three iterations of teams, and that wasn't enough.

At some point, it's not the NFL's fault, it's not the NFLPA's fault, it's not the team's fault, it's not society's fault. At some point, the focus has to square on the individual, and he has to own that he has a problem, and he has to make it a point to do something about it. On his own.

yes, it's 100% his fault, but don't you think he has better odds of turning things around if he's around the team and the thing he loves.

Evidently, no.

Look, the guy has a gazillion advantages none of us will ever dream of having, and he keeps pissing them all down the drain over and over and over and over again. No team, whether it is Baylor or Utah or the Browns, has amounted to a lick of influence in corralling his sheer stupidity. His odds are best at turning things around when he takes just a moment to reflect on what choices he is making and decides that he wants to change, gets professional help, treatment, and truly takes ownership of his life. This is not the NFL's fault here, and any suggestion otherwise is enabling and missing the point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You cant bring me down, Dan

Im in my thread w all my buddies. Discussing this potential court proceeding

Craziness all around

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hater's Rant!!!

YES!!! Just heard the news and cracked open a cold one! Josh is getting the 16 games he DESERVES. My daughter thinks we are throwing a party for her but she's not the reason we are throwing a "Sweet 16"celebration this weekend! Har har! Addicts should not be allowed to play a single snap in the NFL. I want all the players I watch on tv to be drug free so my children can look up to them. Josh Gordon is a demon. If he didn't get a full 16, I was going to write the league. I still think he needs another 16 for the DUI but one gift at a time, right!!! Right?!!! Man, it feels so GOOD to finally watch Soulfly admit defeat. I LIVE for that. To be right in this thread! Nothing gets me going more than being right and someone else being wrong! Hell, I haven't felt so stongly against a person since the OJ Simpson trial. I lost that one so this kind of makes up for it. I am hoping he sues so I can continue to have someone to root against. They let that damn Rice off the hook easy and Prater is suspended for four games (THANK GOD!) I'm running out of people to hate! I hate Trent Richardson because he sucks. I hate Bradford because he is always hurt. I hate Peyton Manning because he dances funny. I hate Tom Brady because he is in New England. I HATE EVERYTHING!!!!!!!! AND IT FEELS GOOD! I WAS RIGHT - YOU WERE WRONG!! YES! Keep this thread going. I am nothing without it! Actually, I hate this forum! HA! Gordon got what he deserved! I would like to think my hate had something to do with that. HIGH five to self! Wait, I am starting to hate myself. I take my high five back.

So you cracked open a "cold one" but frown upon a joint? I guess ya know about maims/deaths from drinking

I know Gordon had an issue w that too, but it isn't viewed the same (to the NFL) which ironically is one of the worst situations 1) Drinkers who rarely drink, and then drive 2) The high tolerance drinkers goin for broke

It may be funny to see tables turned to a degree in the future ie. holding a "six-pack" is legal 12 pk or over and you risk jail (just kidding)

Oh and don't hate! Its too strong a word...

On the bright side, its obvious the NFL Commissioner was raised with a similar understanding ie. No clue what was in an Indians "peace pipe"..

However the Commish would probably drop his jaw if he read stuff about Purple drank esp in TX. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_drank ex. In 2004, the University of Texas found that 8.3% of secondary school students in Texas had taken codeine syrup to get high.

Basically Im admitting that I too see a difference among different "choices" to consume..

p.s. Soulfly has suggested that Gordon would play eight games, and while the Season isn't over yet. Matter of fact, he hasn't missed a reg Season game just yet.

Im pretty sure its a done deal, but very little surprises everyone..

you didn't mention demaurice smith anywhere here, a mistake most are making here. If you have a problem with the cba then take it up with him and the nflpa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You cant bring me down, Dan

Im in my thread w all my buddies. Discussing this potential court proceeding

Craziness all around

you guys should take up group text.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You cant bring me down, Dan

Im in my thread w all my buddies. Discussing this potential court proceeding

Craziness all around

When all else fails (like it has for you) flip the script I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

one thing the NFL needs to change is not letting the players be around the team while they are suspended. They make a bad situation worse, these troubled guys need to be around the team for a support system.

They screw up suspend them, that's fine, but don't take them completely away from the one thing that could keep them on the right track.

A lot of good being around a team did for Josh Gordon. He's gone through three iterations of teams, and that wasn't enough.

At some point, it's not the NFL's fault, it's not the NFLPA's fault, it's not the team's fault, it's not society's fault. At some point, the focus has to square on the individual, and he has to own that he has a problem, and he has to make it a point to do something about it. On his own.

yes, it's 100% his fault, but don't you think he has better odds of turning things around if he's around the team and the thing he loves.

How many chances do you think a guy should get?

for marijuana issues, a lot. he's not hurting anyone around him. yes he's an idiot and i'm not a big fan of him or anything, but i think he should be put in the best possible position to overcome his issues.

Consider all the people in poverty, or those making minimum wage, or those in the middle class when making this point and listen to just how ridiculous this sounds. He IS in the best possible position to overcome his issues. He has been in the best possible position to overcome his issues. Most people would kill to be in his position to overcome their issues. Many of them, I believe, truly would use the blessings he has as inspiration to turn things around. He has spat on every opportunity given to him. It's time to give Josh Gordon some space and time to really think hard for once about the choices he makes because the resources being invested in him have been an utter waste, thus far. Edited by Proust Loves Cake

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You cant bring me down, Dan

Im in my thread w all my buddies. Discussing this potential court proceeding

Craziness all around

When all else fails (like it has for you) flip the script I guess.

Flip the script?

Im merely following it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You cant bring me down, Dan

Im in my thread w all my buddies. Discussing this potential court proceeding

Craziness all around

When all else fails (like it has for you) flip the script I guess.

Flip the script?

Im merely following it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not sure why everyone (media and posters here) refers to the appeal as an "arbitration" presided over by an "independent arbitrator." If you read the Substance Abuse Policy it states the appeals process...

"B. Conduct of Appeals Before the Commissioner.

1. Hearing.

The Commissioner will designate a time and place for a hearing (either in person or by telephone), at which either he or his designee will preside. A player may be accompanied by counsel and present relevant evidence or testimony in support of his appeal.

...

7. Commissioner Determination.

Within a reasonable period of time, following the hearing, the Commissioner will issue a written decision which will constitute a full, final, and complete disposition of the appeal and which will be binding on all parties."

It would appear Henderson was Goodell's "designee" and that it was still ultimately Goodell's decision. I am not an expert on the policy, but I have read it a couple of times during this whole fiasco. So, anyone who thinks that a Court won't overturn the suspension because it was a heard by an independent arbitrator is wrong. That doesn't mean that there are not numerous other reasons the suspension would be affirmed, but I don't think that is one of them.

Edited by jdswan922

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

one thing the NFL needs to change is not letting the players be around the team while they are suspended. They make a bad situation worse, these troubled guys need to be around the team for a support system.

They screw up suspend them, that's fine, but don't take them completely away from the one thing that could keep them on the right track.

A lot of good being around a team did for Josh Gordon. He's gone through three iterations of teams, and that wasn't enough.

At some point, it's not the NFL's fault, it's not the NFLPA's fault, it's not the team's fault, it's not society's fault. At some point, the focus has to square on the individual, and he has to own that he has a problem, and he has to make it a point to do something about it. On his own.

yes, it's 100% his fault, but don't you think he has better odds of turning things around if he's around the team and the thing he loves.

How many chances do you think a guy should get?

for marijuana issues, a lot. he's not hurting anyone around him. yes he's an idiot and i'm not a big fan of him or anything, but i think he should be put in the best possible position to overcome his issues.

Consider all the people in poverty, or those making minimum wage, or those in the middle class when making this point and listen to just how ridiculous this sounds. He IS in the best possible position to overcome his issues. He has been in the best possible position to overcome his issues. Most people would kill to be in his position to overcome their issues. Many of them, I believe, truly would use the blessings he has as inspiration to turn things around. He has spat on every opportunity given to him. It's time to give Josh Gordon some space and time to really think hard for once about the choices he makes because the resources being invested in him have been an utter waste, thus far.

i don't really disagree with your stance, in many ways i think you're right. i just think a 23 year old shouldn't really have a major support system taken away from him. But you're right, he's been given a lot of chances and pissed them away, so in the end it's on him. just sucks to see such a talent throw it all away and now it might get even worse for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Consider all the people in poverty, or those making minimum wage, or those in the middle class when making this point and listen to just how ridiculous this sounds.

I must agree that those considerations do sound ridiculous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would appear Henderson was Goodell's "designee" and that it was still ultimately Goodell's decision. I am not an expert on the policy, but I have read it a couple of times during this whole fiasco. So, anyone who thinks that a Court won't overturn the suspension because it was a heard by an independent arbitrator is wrong. That doesn't mean that there are not numerous other reasons the suspension would be affirmed, but I don't think that is one of them.

I've been reading a bit on this issue in the last 24 hours, and it's not so clear cut.

On the one hand, judges don't review arbitrators' rulings on the merits. One the other hand, Henderson isn't really a neutral arbitrator: he was appointed by Goodell. On the third hand, that's the system that the NFLPA agreed to, and an agreement with that method of selecting an arbitrator is legally enforceable.

The trial judge in the Williams-StarCaps case did review the non-neutral arbitrator's decision on the merits (and did grant a preliminary injunction barring enforcement of the suspension). And while some law professor types agreed with him on that issue, others did not. So it's a hard question. I don't know how the federal appellate courts have weighed in on the issue of how much deference a non-neutral arbitrator's decision should get when he was appointed in accordance with a collective bargaining agreement. The issue probably doesn't come up very often because in most contexts, a union would never agree to allow management to unilaterally pick the arbitrator.

Here's a pretty good article about these issues as they were raised in the StarCaps case, if anyone's interested.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hater's Rant!!!

YES!!! Just heard the news and cracked open a cold one! Josh is getting the 16 games he DESERVES. My daughter thinks we are throwing a party for her but she's not the reason we are throwing a "Sweet 16"celebration this weekend! Har har! Addicts should not be allowed to play a single snap in the NFL. I want all the players I watch on tv to be drug free so my children can look up to them. Josh Gordon is a demon. If he didn't get a full 16, I was going to write the league. I still think he needs another 16 for the DUI but one gift at a time, right!!! Right?!!! Man, it feels so GOOD to finally watch Soulfly admit defeat. I LIVE for that. To be right in this thread! Nothing gets me going more than being right and someone else being wrong! Hell, I haven't felt so stongly against a person since the OJ Simpson trial. I lost that one so this kind of makes up for it. I am hoping he sues so I can continue to have someone to root against. They let that damn Rice off the hook easy and Prater is suspended for four games (THANK GOD!) I'm running out of people to hate! I hate Trent Richardson because he sucks. I hate Bradford because he is always hurt. I hate Peyton Manning because he dances funny. I hate Tom Brady because he is in New England. I HATE EVERYTHING!!!!!!!! AND IT FEELS GOOD! I WAS RIGHT - YOU WERE WRONG!! YES! Keep this thread going. I am nothing without it! Actually, I hate this forum! HA! Gordon got what he deserved! I would like to think my hate had something to do with that. HIGH five to self! Wait, I am starting to hate myself. I take my high five back.

:mellow:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hater's Rant!!!

YES!!! Just heard the news and cracked open a cold one! Josh is getting the 16 games he DESERVES. My daughter thinks we are throwing a party for her but she's not the reason we are throwing a "Sweet 16"celebration this weekend! Har har! Addicts should not be allowed to play a single snap in the NFL. I want all the players I watch on tv to be drug free so my children can look up to them. Josh Gordon is a demon. If he didn't get a full 16, I was going to write the league. I still think he needs another 16 for the DUI but one gift at a time, right!!! Right?!!! Man, it feels so GOOD to finally watch Soulfly admit defeat. I LIVE for that. To be right in this thread! Nothing gets me going more than being right and someone else being wrong! Hell, I haven't felt so stongly against a person since the OJ Simpson trial. I lost that one so this kind of makes up for it. I am hoping he sues so I can continue to have someone to root against. They let that damn Rice off the hook easy and Prater is suspended for four games (THANK GOD!) I'm running out of people to hate! I hate Trent Richardson because he sucks. I hate Bradford because he is always hurt. I hate Peyton Manning because he dances funny. I hate Tom Brady because he is in New England. I HATE EVERYTHING!!!!!!!! AND IT FEELS GOOD! I WAS RIGHT - YOU WERE WRONG!! YES! Keep this thread going. I am nothing without it! Actually, I hate this forum! HA! Gordon got what he deserved! I would like to think my hate had something to do with that. HIGH five to self! Wait, I am starting to hate myself. I take my high five back.

:mellow:

:toilet:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh. Well, in that case, perhaps the players might want to advocate for permissible drug use in the next round of collective bargaining so that they're, you know..not outdated and all.

The PA's role in it makes it no more or less outdated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Josh Gordon dynasty value now?

A 2015 1st?

On FBG and a couple of other dynasty rankings, I see him ranked around rookie WR3 or WR4. So that could be turned into around a mid-round first pick IMO.

Thoughts from anyone who rather talk value than legal mumbo jumbo? ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone holding yet for a couple days in redraft with Gordon's talk of a possible lawsuit?

Yep, especially in deep leagues with nothing of note on the waiver wire.

For the record, I am pretty pessimistic on his chances of getting any kind of injunction - but risk/reward in most situations means no reason to cut bait immediately.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh. Well, in that case, perhaps the players might want to advocate for permissible drug use in the next round of collective bargaining so that they're, you know..not outdated and all.

The PA's role in it makes it no more or less outdated.

Sure. If it helps you sleep at night, that's fine.

Seems to me, however, that the bigger issue here isn't the merits of the policy, which are clearly debatable (this coming from an ardent supporter of marijuana legalization), but rather that we have an adult who gets all the hints, nudges, counsel, and resources you can possibly imagine to know he absolutely cannot under any circumstances be around a specific substance, knowing the catastrophic consequences that would result if he is tested positive (yet again) for said substance, but voluntarily chooses to go ahead and do it anyway. It is the mind-boggling stupidity of this choice over and over, time and time again that, in my mind, trumps any stupidity stemming from a league policy agreed upon by suits and players alike.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Josh Gordon dynasty value now?

A 2015 1st?

On FBG and a couple of other dynasty rankings, I see him ranked around rookie WR3 or WR4. So that could be turned into around a mid-round first pick IMO.

Thoughts from anyone who rather talk value than legal mumbo jumbo? ;)

I think there is the potential for a disconnect between his trade value and where most sites are going to rank him. What I mean is that I think it is probably going to be easier to get a 1st (or whatever the appropriate price is for that range) because he is more volatile. That increased volatility is going to allow people to more easily create the narrative where he could significantly help their team.

Mid-1st sounds about right, would probably move a late 1st for him and would not give a projected early 1st.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Josh Gordon dynasty value now?

A 2015 1st?

On FBG and a couple of other dynasty rankings, I see him ranked around rookie WR3 or WR4. So that could be turned into around a mid-round first pick IMO.

Thoughts from anyone who rather talk value than legal mumbo jumbo? ;)

I think there is the potential for a disconnect between his trade value and where most sites are going to rank him. What I mean is that I think it is probably going to be easier to get a 1st (or whatever the appropriate price is for that range) because he is more volatile. That increased volatility is going to allow people to more easily create the narrative where he could significantly help their team.

Mid-1st sounds about right, would probably move a late 1st for him and would not give a projected early 1st.

A mid-1st would've been too much before the atbitror ruling was announced IMO. Now I really think you'd have to be deluaional about what this guy prioritizes in life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my rant.

Josh Gordon is ultimately responsible for what has occurred. As ludicrous as the NFL policy--and federal and the majority of state laws-- are regarding marijuana use, he knew the rules and put himself in position to be in violation of them. And for that you can call him stupid, a moron, an addict or whatever other term makes you feel better about yourself.

If I were to call him anything it would be immature as that is really what it is. Not fully realizing or accepting the consequences of his actions. But let's remember that he is 23 YEARS old. I know I too was immature at 23--almost all of us were in one way or another-- and did A LOT of stupid things, including some that were illegal. I would have failed at least 95% of the marijuana tests issued to me at that time--and in fact failed a pre-employment test at a job that I was still hired at, worked at, and where I happened to meet my future wife. And guess what. I'm now a married 36 year old father with a graduate degree, a "career", own a home, and act as a generally productive member of society. I also know of many successful people--educators, lawyers, business owners, executives--who have, or currently use marijuana and/or other illegal recreational drugs, including ILLEGAL use and abuse of prescription drugs--which by the way the NFL has essentially supported. And guess what whether you KNOW it or not you personally KNOW people like that too.

I see people posting things suggesting that Gordon is some sort of plague on society. Let's look at what he's really done. A DUI that is a serious offensive and should be dealt with by the laws of the state of North Carolina.... and he seems to really like weed. So much so that he failed a reported ONE OF 70 tests in the last year---btw at a level that is not even recognized by the most vigilant drug policy enforcement forces in the world. Ok.

At the same time, he's also managed to be, by both some objective and subjective measures, the best in the world at his job.

So let's look at the cost/benefit of his action and the results. In and of itself Gordon smoking weed in his free time has pretty much ZERO negative impact on himself, his team, the league or society. Yet the negative impact of suspending him for his violation of an illogical policy has clear negative affect on him, his team, the league, and society. Yes society because Gordon won't be paying taxes on his salary. In fact, marijuana prohibition in general costs taxpayers an estimated $20 billion a year through enforcement expenses and the loss of tax revenue. And It costs the Browns their best player, the NFL one of the best young players in the league, it costs opposing players the opportunity to match their skills against one of the best, fans the chance to see the highest level of competition, and FF Players ANOTHER WR1 IN DRAFTS and on their rosters this year. And for what? Because he smokes weed--a recreational decision, which is measurably less harmful than tobacco, alcohol, and many of the prescription drugs that NFL heavily supports through team doctors and money making deals. Take an honest look at what's going on here. There are ZERO facts that support marijuana prohibition being good for society. I'll take that argument any day.

Gordon is guilty of being immature and making a selfish decision to be anywhere in the vicinity of something that positioned him for a positive test, no matter how majorly insignificant the levels suggests that vicinity may have been. But again he's 23 years old. The vast majority of us made bad decisions at that time in our lives that didn't costs us so dearly because we weren't in such punitive environments. And because of a draconian and ill advised policy one bad decision is costing this 23 year old, and countless others, immensely. It serves no one.

Stop with the talk of what would happen to "most people." Most, as in the VAST majority of people, DONT GET drug tested at all in their current jobs, let alone randomly. Some employers do pre-employment testing and I know for a fact that people fail those and still get hired. I was one of them. If employers want to test job applicants before hiring then that's their right no matter how pointless it is for many of them. And it makes sense for people in jobs involving public safety and incident based policies.

But the NFL's policy serves no one--other than the pharmaceutical companies the NFL is in bed with-- and it's evident. A high percentage of players still smoke weed anyway. Chris Cooley recently said it would be easier to find a group of guys to go smoke with then a group to go have beers with. There is undeniable medical research that proves marijuana is a more effective for certain individuals as a MEDICAL option for treatment of certain conditions. That's why half of the country has legalized medical marijuana. And in fact, many of the conditions that marijuana benefits are conditions that many NFL players suffer from.

Again, Josh Gordon is guilty of some bad decisions and being an immature 23 year old but the NFL, and society as a whole, are much more guilty of falling for 80 years of propaganda from a small number of special interests groups who benefit from marijuana prohibition.

It's illogical, counterproductive, shameful, and insane. And this situation presents an opportunity for people to say so and ask that bad policy be changed. I'm going to take advantage of that opportunity for a while in whatever forums I can right now.

Edited by VaTerp
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Josh Gordon dynasty value now?

A 2015 1st?

On FBG and a couple of other dynasty rankings, I see him ranked around rookie WR3 or WR4. So that could be turned into around a mid-round first pick IMO.

Thoughts from anyone who rather talk value than legal mumbo jumbo? ;)

I think there is the potential for a disconnect between his trade value and where most sites are going to rank him. What I mean is that I think it is probably going to be easier to get a 1st (or whatever the appropriate price is for that range) because he is more volatile. That increased volatility is going to allow people to more easily create the narrative where he could significantly help their team.

Mid-1st sounds about right, would probably move a late 1st for him and would not give a projected early 1st.

A mid-1st would've been too much before the atbitror ruling was announced IMO. Now I really think you'd have to be deluaional about what this guy prioritizes in life.

Obviously the kid is an idiot, but I don't think we can assume that the NFL's drug policy is going to stay static forever. It is possible that the NFLPA gives in on HGH testing and the thresholds for THC come up dramatically or pot suspensions get reduced dramatically.

Dude got popped for marijuana possession once at Baylor and the recent DUI where he was barely over the limit. Were there other run-ins with the law that weren't speeding? Idiot? Sure. Blackmon level? Not even close.

If you think fair market price is significantly south of a mid-1st I can definitely respect that, but it just takes 1 buyer willing to take the chance. And I might be suffering from some benchmark bias based on what OP threw out initially. But let's put it this way, I would jump at acquiring him for a 2nd in virtually any league setting,

If he had no drug/suspension history at all, what is his price? 3-4 random 1sts? so the 1 mid-1st already incorporates a significant discount over what his talent level is.

I understand all of the signs are pointing down right now, and there is a possibility that he never suits up in NFL again. But I am not willing to say that that is definitely the case or that I have a high degree of confidence in that statement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This whole Josh Gordon situation is a perfect example of how life as a professional athlete is so much different than what we normally characterize as the typical life of an employee in the real world (just meaning outside of the world of professional sports). If you look at the sacrifices that a professional NFL player has to make as a result of the current CBA--it's absolutely shocking. Just look at the draft process---outside the world of sports--it would be 100% unconstitutional. Could you imagine if med students couldn't dictate the course of where they wanted to be employed after graduation? Instead, they would have to sit around while hospitals draft them one by one--and once drafted by a hospital--they had no way of using the free market to negotiate their value. This is just one example of a possible many that highlights the differences between "regular employment" and employment as an NFL player. While I think the ruling is unfair in regards to the real world and logic--the fact is that the agreed upon CBA changes that reality. Based upon the "CBA" world--the ruling is correct. Gordon was a multiple offender and he had enough narcotics in his system to be in violation of the agreed upon terms of the CBA (regardless of how ridiculous some of us feel those terms are). I think the biggest message in this whole situation is to always know what you are signing up for and agreeing to when it comes to any commitments one should make. Sometimes we need a failure to occur in our systems to remind us that our systems can be improved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you look at the sacrifices that a professional NFL player has to make as a result of the current CBA--it's absolutely shocking. Just look at the draft process---outside the world of sports--it would be 100% unconstitutional. Could you imagine if med students couldn't dictate the course of where they wanted to be employed after graduation? Instead, they would have to sit around while hospitals draft them one by one--and once drafted by a hospital--they had no way of using the free market to negotiate their value.

Not unconstitutional, but it would violate the Sherman Act.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This whole Josh Gordon situation is a perfect example of how life as a professional athlete is so much different than what we normally characterize as the typical life of an employee in the real world (just meaning outside of the world of professional sports). If you look at the sacrifices that a professional NFL player has to make as a result of the current CBA--it's absolutely shocking. Just look at the draft process---outside the world of sports--it would be 100% unconstitutional. Could you imagine if med students couldn't dictate the course of where they wanted to be employed after graduation? Instead, they would have to sit around while hospitals draft them one by one--and once drafted by a hospital--they had no way of using the free market to negotiate their value. This is just one example of a possible many that highlights the differences between "regular employment" and employment as an NFL player. While I think the ruling is unfair in regards to the real world and logic--the fact is that the agreed upon CBA changes that reality. Based upon the "CBA" world--the ruling is correct. Gordon was a multiple offender and he had enough narcotics in his system to be in violation of the agreed upon terms of the CBA (regardless of how ridiculous some of us feel those terms are). I think the biggest message in this whole situation is to always know what you are signing up for and agreeing to when it comes to any commitments one should make. Sometimes we need a failure to occur in our systems to remind us that our systems can be improved.

This same system would have made him 50 million dollars had he just followed the rules. The trade off for giving up the right to be young and immature is being paid more money than most of us can dream of

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MT, didn't know if you would find anything interesting in the ruling on the DJ Williams appeal. This was for performance enhancing drugs, not substance abuse if I stated that wrong earlier.

Anyway, two parts I found interesting, first with regard to delaying a judgment to provide time for negotiation being a consistent practice:

On January 16, 2012, two days after the Broncos were eliminated from the playoffs in the postseason, counsel for Mr. Williams requested by email that the arbitrator dismiss the case because he had failed to render a decision within the timeframe contemplated by the steroid policy. See id. at 180 (stating that "the Hearing Officer will evaluate the evidence and render a written decision with respect to disciplinary action within five (5) calendar days"). The arbitrator declined by email on January 19, stating that he "was asked to delay a decision on this matter to afford an opportunity for the parties to the governing collective bargaining agreement, the NFL and the NFL[Players Association], to explore an agreed resolution of this dispute." Id., Vol. II at 372. The arbitrator further stated that "[t]his action is consistent with past practice." Id. The parties do not dispute that the arbitrator had communicated with the NFL's general counsel and executive vice-president, Jeffrey Pash.

Other one referencing the non-neutrality of the arbitrator. Henderson was the arbitrator for this case and it sounds like the substance abuse policy uses similar language about the Commissioner's designee:

2. We assume for the sake of discussion that the communication between Mr. Pash and the arbitrator constitutes an "ex parte" discussion. This case does not, however, present a typical independent, third-party arbitrator situation. Indeed, the steroid policy designates the NFL's Commissioner or his designee as the arbitrator, Aplt. App., Vol. I at 169, and Mr. Pash is the NFL's general counsel/executive vice-president. Consequently, a communication such as the one that occurred here is not unlikely or unforeseeable given the steroid policy's arbitrator-selection provision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you look at the sacrifices that a professional NFL player has to make as a result of the current CBA--it's absolutely shocking. Just look at the draft process---outside the world of sports--it would be 100% unconstitutional. Could you imagine if med students couldn't dictate the course of where they wanted to be employed after graduation? Instead, they would have to sit around while hospitals draft them one by one--and once drafted by a hospital--they had no way of using the free market to negotiate their value.

Not unconstitutional, but it would violate the Sherman Act.

yes--you are right when it comes to it not specifically being mentioned in the constitution--but the founders of the constitution were very much into free markets and freedom of employment--the article in the link below is a very interesting read

http://www.nccs.net/freedom-of-individual-enterprise.php

In any case--I certainly don't want to pull this crazy thread off topic--but yes--the Sherman act would have been a more accurate document to use in my original post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   1 member