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Matt Waldman

Josh Gordon Everything Thread

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The 150 page pissing match aside, it seems plausible that he might sue and if he does he might get a TRO. If that happens there's a second round pick available. That's not worth speculating over? If it's wrong, what the hell. If it's right... Not sure why there's so much emotion in here.

There's also a chance that Brandon Tate will lead the league in receiving this season, or that Dontrelle Inman will, or that Dane Sanzenbacher will.

The question isn't whether something is possible; the question is whether it's probable enough to be taken seriously.

The probability that Gordon will get a TRO is not significantly greater than the probability that Dontrelle Inman will lead the league in receiving, IMO. In either case, the probability is not worth taking seriously.

Others are free to disagree, of course.

Ok, I'll take the bait...I'll disagree. I believe the talent and motivation of Gordon's legal advisers and agent offer a significantly greater probability of a successful TRO compared to the talent level of Inman or Tate being able to lead the league in receiving. He's at least worth holding until next week. (Note: Sanzenbacher not included)
Unfortunately, his talented and motivated team are hamstrung by the reality of the law. It's really more like Sanzenbacher leading the league in tackles.

Ha! Come on now Mr. Ford, the probability has to be higher than that...right? Oh well, screw it, I'm dropping Gordon next week and picking up Sanzenbacher
It really isn't.

In redraft he's a full drop. In dynasty you stash him and hope he doesn't do anything stupid with the time on his hands.

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Just throwing out a hypothetical. If Gordon wanted to accrue a season, he needs to play in six games, right?

Why not plan for court, and play the first six games? Then give up his case and take the suspension? Then next year, he plays ten games (if he's not suspended more because of the DUI or anything else for that matter). He accrues two seasons instead of one.

Or is that just an overall bad strategy for the Browns, basically messing with two season?

That'd be a neat trick. Convince the court that you're likely enough to win your case to get granted an injunction and then, what, drop the case and abruptly drop the mic after week 6?

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The 150 page pissing match aside, it seems plausible that he might sue and if he does he might get a TRO. If that happens there's a second round pick available. That's not worth speculating over? If it's wrong, what the hell. If it's right... Not sure why there's so much emotion in here.

There's also a chance that Brandon Tate will lead the league in receiving this season, or that Dontrelle Inman will, or that Dane Sanzenbacher will.

The question isn't whether something is possible; the question is whether it's probable enough to be taken seriously.

The probability that Gordon will get a TRO is not significantly greater than the probability that Dontrelle Inman will lead the league in receiving, IMO. In either case, the probability is not worth taking seriously.

Others are free to disagree, of course.

Ok, I'll take the bait...I'll disagree. I believe the talent and motivation of Gordon's legal advisers and agent offer a significantly greater probability of a successful TRO compared to the talent level of Inman or Tate being able to lead the league in receiving. He's at least worth holding until next week. (Note: Sanzenbacher not included)
Unfortunately, his talented and motivated team are hamstrung by the reality of the law. It's really more like Sanzenbacher leading the league in tackles.

Ha! Come on now Mr. Ford, the probability has to be higher than that...right? Oh well, screw it, I'm dropping Gordon next week and picking up Sanzenbacher
It really isn't.

In redraft he's a full drop. In dynasty you stash him and hope he doesn't do anything stupid with the time on his hands.

My points is this. How can you say that with such certainty? What information do you have that could back up your statement with absolute certainty? I'm not talking about probabilities. I talking about 100% certainties. As long as there's a 1% chance that he could beat this thing, I feel the upside of having Gordon is worth the extremely low risk taken.

Edited by Football Menace
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Would much rather have him on my bench than say a Jarrett Boykin or Jason Avant who would never make a start barring 2 or 3 ACL tears from my WRs and a couple bye weeks.

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My issue was how often "I would like Gordon to win his appeal" was turned into distortion of facts or largely irrelevant claims to support saying it was likely he'd win. Things like trying to convince others it mattered somehow to his appeal that he passed 70 tests or that he would win just because has a good lawyer, amongst many others.

I come in here for information to decide if or where to draft him, or now on how long to hold him or not. I can do without the actual merit of the cases he might make being distorted.

And not saying the same wasn't happening on the other side. The scale was far less though.

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Would much rather have him on my bench than say a Jarrett Boykin or Jason Avant who would never make a start barring 2 or 3 ACL tears from my WRs and a couple bye weeks.

IMHO, I wouldn't. I think he is done for the year and I would much rather have Boykin. Maybe that is because I know Boykin is WR3 on Green Bay and the chance of Nelson/Cobb getting hurt is far more likely than Gordon playing enough to make a difference. Did you know that Boykin put up WR1 stats in 7 of the 10 games that Cobb missed? That was even with Rodgers not playing in 7 of those 10 games as well. Sorry, but if you think Boykin on your bench is a waste over a suspended Gordon then you need to rethink your position.

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The 150 page pissing match aside, it seems plausible that he might sue and if he does he might get a TRO. If that happens there's a second round pick available. That's not worth speculating over? If it's wrong, what the hell. If it's right... Not sure why there's so much emotion in here.

There's also a chance that Brandon Tate will lead the league in receiving this season, or that Dontrelle Inman will, or that Dane Sanzenbacher will.

The question isn't whether something is possible; the question is whether it's probable enough to be taken seriously.

The probability that Gordon will get a TRO is not significantly greater than the probability that Dontrelle Inman will lead the league in receiving, IMO. In either case, the probability is not worth taking seriously.

Others are free to disagree, of course.

Ok, I'll take the bait...I'll disagree. I believe the talent and motivation of Gordon's legal advisers and agent offer a significantly greater probability of a successful TRO compared to the talent level of Inman or Tate being able to lead the league in receiving. He's at least worth holding until next week. (Note: Sanzenbacher not included)
Unfortunately, his talented and motivated team are hamstrung by the reality of the law. It's really more like Sanzenbacher leading the league in tackles.

Ha! Come on now Mr. Ford, the probability has to be higher than that...right? Oh well, screw it, I'm dropping Gordon next week and picking up Sanzenbacher
It really isn't.

In redraft he's a full drop. In dynasty you stash him and hope he doesn't do anything stupid with the time on his hands.

My points is this. How can you say that with such certainty? What information do you have that could back up your statement with absolute certainty? I'm not talking about probabilities. I talking about 100% certainties. As long as there's a 1% chance that he could beat this thing, I feel the upside of having Gordon is worth the extremely low risk taken.

I would put it at less than 1%. Probably significantly less. He's taking up a roster spot that could have actual value.

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Gordon playing week 1 yet?

Or we gotta wait til Tuesday?

TBD.

He has to stay clean all year, them be re-instated before he can play week 1 of 2015.

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Really nice article on the hypocrisy of the NFL suspending Gordon for weed while being drug pushers themselves.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2179059-gordon-suspension-highlights-embarrassing-hypocrisy-of-nfls-real-drug-problem

Many of the NFL's sponsors and business-partners -- e.g., Anheuser-Busch -- are very anti-marijuana, right? I wouldn't expect the NFL to relax its anti-marijuana (or pro-beer) stance anytime soon.

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She is banging, no doubt.

But this goes to the fact that he does not surround himself with good people, end of story.

He will be out of this league soon enough, not because he is banging a hot chick on his own time, but because he is not banging hot chicks for free who know better then to take his pic and post it to the world.

Look, he is just another dude like anyone, he likes football, women and weed. I am the same way. I'm sure he isnt even a bad dude.

BUT...

I am not in the NFL trying to make millions and win a Super Bowl. He has to get his head in the game.

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She is banging, no doubt.

But this goes to the fact that he does not surround himself with good people, end of story.

He will be out of this league soon enough, not because he is banging a hot chick on his own time, but because he is not banging hot chicks for free who know better then to take his pic and post it to the world.

Look, he is just another dude like anyone, he likes football, women and weed. I am the same way. I'm sure he isnt even a bad dude.

BUT...

I am not in the NFL trying to make millions and win a Super Bowl. He has to get his head in the game.

Is there a shortage of sex partners for star NFL players so that they have to resort to prostitutes now?

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She is banging, no doubt.

But this goes to the fact that he does not surround himself with good people, end of story.

He will be out of this league soon enough, not because he is banging a hot chick on his own time, but because he is not banging hot chicks for free who know better then to take his pic and post it to the world.

Look, he is just another dude like anyone, he likes football, women and weed. I am the same way. I'm sure he isnt even a bad dude.

BUT...

I am not in the NFL trying to make millions and win a Super Bowl. He has to get his head in the game.

Is there a shortage of sex partners for star NFL players so that they have to resort to prostitutes now?

Professional. This chick must be good at what she does. James Harden dropped 20K on her not too long ago.

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Guys, that photo is so old. His back is COVERED in tattoos now. That image has like 5% of what his back looks like now.

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She is banging, no doubt.

But this goes to the fact that he does not surround himself with good people, end of story.

He will be out of this league soon enough, not because he is banging a hot chick on his own time, but because he is not banging hot chicks for free who know better then to take his pic and post it to the world.

Look, he is just another dude like anyone, he likes football, women and weed. I am the same way. I'm sure he isnt even a bad dude.

BUT...

I am not in the NFL trying to make millions and win a Super Bowl. He has to get his head in the game.

Is there a shortage of sex partners for star NFL players so that they have to resort to prostitutes now?

I don't understand this at all.

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I just can't comprehend the mind that will fork over four figures to bang a fat###.

Some people (myself included) don't mind a little meat on the bone. But I digress.......

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Gordon playing week 1 yet?

Or we gotta wait til Tuesday?

Did you not see; his appeal was denied and he was been suspended from being a WR for the Browns for all of 2014 and the portion if the 20214 season that occurs in 2015; like the playoffs.?They did say he can re-apply for sustainment next summer if he is good withe drugs and drinking and driving until then.

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My favorite part was when he issed a statement saying he was disappointed in the league's poor use of judgment.

Kettle, pot, black or what. Yeah, the league is going to give him the benefit of the doubt to let him in back early. Idiot.

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So I assume a TRO or injunction is in place? By what some of the legal experts in this thread were conveying, it was a slam dunk for Gordon's lawyers.

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So I assume a TRO or injunction is in place? By what some of the legal experts in this thread were conveying, it was a slam dunk for Gordon's lawyers.

Courts are closed until Tuesday, but from what I understand the file clerk will be at the ready with he stamp all inked up.

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So I assume a TRO or injunction is in place? By what some of the legal experts in this thread were conveying, it was a slam dunk for Gordon's lawyers.

Courts are closed until Tuesday, but from what I understand the file clerk will be at the ready with he stamp all inked up.

Yeah, it makes sense for Gordon's lawyers to wait until Tuesday to file a lawsuit; it's not like he's missing practice & game planning for the Steelers.

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C'mon guys, dozens of players have challenged their drug suspensions over the years and won. Oh, wait....

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@ProFootballTalk 4m
Decision on whether Josh Gordon will pursue legal action over his suspension will come in next day or two. Don't be shocked if he sues.

@ProFootballTalk 2m
A Josh Gordon lawsuit would include a request to block the suspension pending the outcome of the case.

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C'mon guys, dozens of players have challenged their drug suspensions over the years and won. Oh, wait....

Lots of guys talk about suing, but few of them actually do it.
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@ProFootballTalk 4m

Decision on whether Josh Gordon will pursue legal action over his suspension will come in next day or two. Don't be shocked if he sues.

@ProFootballTalk 2m

A Josh Gordon lawsuit would include a request to block the suspension pending the outcome of the case.

How long would it take a judge to decide to block a suspension. Would he/she have to make that decision early?

Granted I don't think it will work, but just wondering what the timeline is, since I could still drop my waiver wire defense and pick up Gordon till at least Thursday.

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@ProFootballTalk 4m

Decision on whether Josh Gordon will pursue legal action over his suspension will come in next day or two. Don't be shocked if he sues.

@ProFootballTalk 2m

A Josh Gordon lawsuit would include a request to block the suspension pending the outcome of the case.

How long would it take a judge to decide to block a suspension. Would he/she have to make that decision early?

Granted I don't think it will work, but just wondering what the timeline is, since I could still drop my waiver wire defense and pick up Gordon till at least Thursday.

If the suit has financial ramifications that costs a person a chance at an income, the judge considers that of the highest priority I have been told... for what it is worth.

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8282.jpg



Profootballtalk reports suspended Browns WR Josh Gordon is still considering suing the league.



Per PFT, the decision will come "in the next day or two." Any lawsuit would reportedly include a request to "block the suspension pending the outcome of the case." A source previously told the Cleveland Plain Dealer that Gordon would have "no shot" at having his ban overturned in court. He's still extremely unlikely to take the field in 2014. He's a wasted roster spot in re-draft leagues.



Sep 1 - 2:31 PM


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Could Soulfly have the last laugh?

I have been all about the Gordon suspension and believe he deserves one, but if this goes to the courts, not good for the league.

The league is notorious for settling, and would in this case. The only way people beat the league is in court, in court different things come into play.

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This is still a CBA contractual issue. If both parties - the league and the NFLPA - mutually agreed to the language, I see this as next to impossible to overcome. Then again, I am not a lawyer. I have seen my fair share of contractual controversies though, and the courts always seem to go back to the contractual document for their basis.

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Well I'm still drinking the cool-Ade balancing the cost of a mid level reserve pick on the chance that he files tomorrow. If he files I would assume his high powered legal team believe he has a strong shot at at least the TRO which I would hope plays out quickly. No filing this week and I bounce him for sure and only take a small hit on whomever I grab in that spot.

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If you use the rent-a-d strategy you might as well pick him up if available and wait as long as your league allows to see how it plays out over the week.

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If you use the rent-a-d strategy you might as well pick him up if available and wait as long as your league allows to see how it plays out over the week.

Exactly what I'm doing. Or if you are indifferent about your kicker, do the same thing.

I had to drop Pitt D, but I picked them up off waivers, so they will likely be there Thursday when I have to pick them back up. And if they get picked up then I'll just roll with the Lions.

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Could Soulfly have the last laugh?

I have been all about the Gordon suspension and believe he deserves one, but if this goes to the courts, not good for the league.

The league is notorious for settling, and would in this case. The only way people beat the league is in court, in court different things come into play.

tee hee

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Any insight from people with more knowledge of the law/court system on how long it would take for a judge to decide whether he'd block the suspension?

Is that an aspect they'd look at right away and rule on even if the actual case too longer?

Again I still think it's a long shot, but I'll take a .1% chance for a couple days, but will have to drop for a defense by Thursday.

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If you basically are holding a backup Te or kicker position like I am (my rosters are filled) and there is really no one worth more then a gamble on Gordon then no reason not to hold him for 2-3 days but if there was something on the WW worth anything and or something I needed then i would drop him. I put the odds (just my opinion and not scientific) at probably 5% that he plays at all this year. I doubt it BUT again the gamble has value and you never know.,

Edited by damageinc

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Could Soulfly have the last laugh?

I have been all about the Gordon suspension and believe he deserves one, but if this goes to the courts, not good for the league.

The league is notorious for settling, and would in this case. The only way people beat the league is in court, in court different things come into play.

tee hee

I'm a little torn at this point now. I have been saying he deserves to get suspended for breaking the agreed upon CBA multiple times and his suspension was going to be upheld based upon the facts of the CBA, but I would love to see any weed case win in court.

I know it is against the CBA, and he broke the rules, he deserves the league issued ban. But if a weed case has a chance to win in the court room in any fashion, I will pull for it. Courtrooms are not for arbitrators for an organization, the are deciders of law in a sense. If I knew this had a chance to go to court in the first place I would have been pulling for Gordon. I never even thought it was a real possibility because of the CBA, and that is yet to be determined if its even possible to sue.

I dont like players who are dumb, and he is, because he doesnt learn his lesson. But if he can beat the system in court, Soulfly you may have to move over, I may be his new biggest fan. The greater good. All about getting the herb legal.

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His legal team just got the appeal rejection on Thursday. While they knew the jist of it they need the actual rejection of his appeal to go over and find the legal arguments for a case. Courts were closed since Friday due to holiday so they probally have been working on the case all weekend and "if" they have one they will present it before the first game on Thursday. Its the legal system. Anything can happen. Remember they dont actually have to win. If the case gets thrown out eventually or he loses etc. Nothign would be done before the season is over I read so he would get to play the season if he gets the TRO.and they hold off the suspension until a decision is made. Not likely BUT can happen.

Edited by damageinc

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Could Soulfly have the last laugh?

I have been all about the Gordon suspension and believe he deserves one, but if this goes to the courts, not good for the league.

The league is notorious for settling, and would in this case. The only way people beat the league is in court, in court different things come into play.

tee hee

I'm a little torn at this point now. I have been saying he deserves to get suspended for breaking the agreed upon CBA multiple times and his suspension was going to be upheld based upon the facts of the CBA, but I would love to see any weed case win in court.

I know it is against the CBA, and he broke the rules, he deserves the league issued ban. But if a weed case has a chance to win in the court room in any fashion, I will pull for it. Courtrooms are not for arbitrators for an organization, the are deciders of law in a sense. If I knew this had a chance to go to court in the first place I would have been pulling for Gordon. I never even thought it was a real possibility because of the CBA, and that is yet to be determined if its even possible to sue.

I dont like players who are dumb, and he is, because he doesnt learn his lesson. But if he can beat the system in court, Soulfly you may have to move over, I may be his new biggest fan. The greater good. All about getting the herb legal.

IF (huge if) Gordon files a lawsuit, and IF (huge if) a judge agrees the case has merits, it's not going to be a "weed case." It will be the judge deciding if the arbitrator did something wrong. The only way I could see that happening would be due to the relatively long time between the appeal & the decision. I don't know if that would be enough for the judge/court to overturn the suspension, though.

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His legal team just got the appeal rejection on Thursday. While they knew the jist of it they need the actual rejection of his appeal to go over and find the legal arguments for a case. Courts were closed since Friday due to holiday so they probally have been working on the case all weekend and "if" they have one they will present it before the first game on Thursday. Its the legal system. Anything can happen. Remember they dont actually have to win. If the case gets thrown out eventually or he loses etc. Nothign would be done before the season is over I read so he would get to play the season if he gets the TRO.and they hold off the suspension until a decision is made. Not likely BUT can happen.

Wait, so we knew about the appeal decision before Gordon's lawyers?

It was announced on Wednesday, after being leaked that a decision had been made on Tuesday. I'd be surprised if Gordon's lawyers didn't know the decision on Tuesday. IF they were going to sue, they should have done so before the weekend.

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