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Jadeveon Clowney DE South Carolina (1 Viewer)

Checking my crystal ball again post 40 time.....

B U S T

So question for the guys with the blinders on..... What happens when his rookie deal expires? Not that I expect him to get a massive second contract but let's play fantasy and pretend he's still in the league in 4 years.... Does he take year 3 off to protect his future?

 
Checking my crystal ball again post 40 time.....

B U S T

So question for the guys with the blinders on..... What happens when his rookie deal expires? Not that I expect him to get a massive second contract but let's play fantasy and pretend he's still in the league in 4 years.... Does he take year 3 off to protect his future?
:lmao:

 
The bench press is obviously much harder for guys with long arms, but we don't need to make up things and pretend that even for Clowney, 21 reps is good. Malliciah Goodman had a longer wingspan than Clowney and put up 26 reps. Ditto Clifton Geathers. JJ Watt doesn't exactly lack wingspan and he put up 34 reps.
22 reps is a perfectly respectable number for a 260-ish DE:

Ansah had 21 reps last year.

Chandler Jones had 22 reps.

Mercilus had 27 reps.

Aldon Smith had 20 reps.

Robert Quinn had 22 reps.

JPP had 19 reps.

 
Checking my crystal ball again post 40 time.....

B U S T

So question for the guys with the blinders on..... What happens when his rookie deal expires? Not that I expect him to get a massive second contract but let's play fantasy and pretend he's still in the league in 4 years.... Does he take year 3 off to protect his future?
Lol
 
like i said, the bench press means as mush or as little as the 40....

i don't put much stock in either

 
Checking my crystal ball again post 40 time.....

B U S T

So question for the guys with the blinders on..... What happens when his rookie deal expires? Not that I expect him to get a massive second contract but let's play fantasy and pretend he's still in the league in 4 years.... Does he take year 3 off to protect his future?
:lmao:
I admit , there may have been a hint of hyperbole discreetly hidden in my post.

 
The best things about Clowney are his quickness and his hands. I don't think his bench reps or his 40 times mean very much. The guy is exceptional at using his hands to shed blockers and his quickness to get around them. He closes extrememly fast on a QB in the pocket. I remember being frustrated last season on how many times he had the QB dead to rights and overshot the guy. Yes he had just 3 sacks but he was in position to have over 10. Learning professional techniques on rushing the QB will do wonders for Clowney. He needs to learn the swim move, etc., and how to close on the plays that he makes.

But I also remember him getting off blocks and running down a RB heading around the opposite end. IMO the only thing in his way (that he can control) to a great NFL career is his work ethic. I hope he gets the right coach to develop that critical part of his game.

 
This is all I need to know. http://i.imgur.com/sJcNY.gif
What does that play tell you?
He has the ability to be an impact player that other teams must take note of at all times, because if you leave him unblocked and undoubled, this will happen. Having a player that accounts for two to three people to guard him tells me all I need to know and that he is a safe and very valuable pick. Having that value and having teams scheme around a player is worthy of a #1 pick and no doubt he should be in my eyes.

 
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The bench press is obviously much harder for guys with long arms, but we don't need to make up things and pretend that even for Clowney, 21 reps is good. Malliciah Goodman had a longer wingspan than Clowney and put up 26 reps. Ditto Clifton Geathers. JJ Watt doesn't exactly lack wingspan and he put up 34 reps.
22 reps is a perfectly respectable number for a 260-ish DE:

Ansah had 21 reps last year.

Chandler Jones had 22 reps.

Mercilus had 27 reps.

Aldon Smith had 20 reps.

Robert Quinn had 22 reps.

JPP had 19 reps.
Sure, it's respectable. But if we're claiming that he's perhaps the most freakishly athletic player in years (which has been thrown around quite a bit), perfectly respectable is a big knock. Freakishly athletic means more than just a 40 time.

 
The bench press is obviously much harder for guys with long arms, but we don't need to make up things and pretend that even for Clowney, 21 reps is good. Malliciah Goodman had a longer wingspan than Clowney and put up 26 reps. Ditto Clifton Geathers. JJ Watt doesn't exactly lack wingspan and he put up 34 reps.
22 reps is a perfectly respectable number for a 260-ish DE:

Ansah had 21 reps last year.

Chandler Jones had 22 reps.

Mercilus had 27 reps.

Aldon Smith had 20 reps.

Robert Quinn had 22 reps.

JPP had 19 reps.
Sure, it's respectable. But if we're claiming that he's perhaps the most freakishly athletic player in years (which has been thrown around quite a bit), perfectly respectable is a big knock. Freakishly athletic means more than just a 40 time.
And an 83" wingspan compared to Fords 77".

 
Jadeveon Clowney better than Williams, Casserly saysBy Chris Wesseling

Around the League Writer

The Houston Texans' potentially dynamic pass-rushing tag team of J.J. Watt and Mario Williams lasted five games into the 2011 season before the latter suffered an injury and ultimately fled to Buffalo.

Nearly three years later, the Texans have a chance for a more imposing tandem on the defensive line.

NFL Media analyst Charley Casserly opined this week that South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney is a better player than Williams was entering the league.

It's noteworthy coming from Casserley because the former Texans general manager was widely panned for bypassing the more ballyhooed Reggie Bush and Vince Young to select Williams No. 1 overall in the 2006 NFL Draft.

"If you're convinced Clowney is the best player in the draft and you're not convinced there is a quarterback you are dead-set on, then take Clowney," Casserly told NFL Media reporter Judy Battista. "At least you'll have a 10-year player.

There will be another Andrew Luck in 30 years, maybe. So you say, is this guy RGIII? Are these quarterbacks Matt Ryan? That's probably a better discussion. Would you take Matt Ryan or Clowney?"

Battista reports, via a person familiar with the team's thinking, that the Texans walked away from the NFL Scouting Combine with the knowledge that they now have options at the top of the draft. They aren't limited to Clowney or a quarterback and will entertain the notion of trading down.

If they take a pass on a "once-in-a-lifetime talent" in Clowney, the decision could haunt the franchise for a decade or more.

On the latest edition of the "Around The League Podcast," the guys talk about the Jim Harbaugh drama in San Francisco and discuss who made the most striking impression at the NFL Scouting Combine.
 
Raiderfan32904 said:
Ramblin Wreck said:
False Start said:
This is all I need to know. http://i.imgur.com/sJcNY.gif
What does that play tell you?
No doubt Clowney could be phenominal. But that was completely unblocked and full speed into a 165 lb. RB. There won't be a whole lot of these types of plays to be had at the next level.
That's where I was going with this. That play doesn't tell me anything about his future as a pro other than he's quick but we knew that already.

 
Chase Stuart said:
The bench press is obviously much harder for guys with long arms, but we don't need to make up things and pretend that even for Clowney, 21 reps is good. Malliciah Goodman had a longer wingspan than Clowney and put up 26 reps. Ditto Clifton Geathers. JJ Watt doesn't exactly lack wingspan and he put up 34 reps.
22 reps is a perfectly respectable number for a 260-ish DE:

Ansah had 21 reps last year.

Chandler Jones had 22 reps.

Mercilus had 27 reps.

Aldon Smith had 20 reps.

Robert Quinn had 22 reps.

JPP had 19 reps.
Sure, it's respectable. But if we're claiming that he's perhaps the most freakishly athletic player in years (which has been thrown around quite a bit), perfectly respectable is a big knock. Freakishly athletic means more than just a 40 time.
The hype is too much, but it's hard to deny that he's up there as prospect with anyone we've seen the past 10 years. The physical ability is there for him to be a great DE, only comes down to how much he wants to be one.

He was near the top in all tested categories except bench press and had a 10 yard split of 1.56 - as fast or faster than all but four RB's at the combine, none of whom weighed more than 220. That split time is Charles Sims (214 lbs.) wearing a 50 lb. backpack.

 
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To put Clowney's freakiness into perspective.

If he ran a borderline low 4.4, and a typical very fast time for a DE would be a 4.6-4.7 - that is like in comparison to a 4.4 WR, you had the opportunity to draft one on your team that could run a 4.1-4.2.
Now you are talking Bo Jackson territory, which is folklore. I like the cheetah running down the wildebeast analogy better. There's an interesting MMBQ article that Peter King wrote that directly compares him to Lawrence Taylor.

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/02/25/jadeveon-clowney-combine-lawrence-taylor/

No doubt if Clowney had Taylor's competive nature, he would be fun to watch on Sunday's chasing down a Russell Wilson or RG3 or Kaep. :popcorn: worthy. I think it's going to be intruging to watch him no matter where he ends up. We'd all love to see him reach that Lawrence Taylor potential, but it's going to take nerves of steel to gamble with a top 3 or 4 pick to get him and hope he has Taylor's motor.
That article really doesn't compare him to Taylor. Everything in that article is about Taylor's drive and willingness to play through and risk injury. Then it points out that Clowney hasn't shown that.

Taylor had 16 sacks his final year at UNC.

 
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A reporter asked Wade Phillips about the production from DE J.J. Watt, who has 5.5 sacks and a whole bunch more. He doesn’t fit the mold of the 3-4 end, which is usually a Richard Seymour-type who takes on two blockers and still manages to get after the passer. Why is that, exactly?

And how does they use Watt?

“First of all we play a different 3-4 than everybody else or most other people, although several of them play it the same one we do now because those guys have coached with me,” Phillips began. “When I started out it was a two-gap defense, the defensive ends had to play two-gap and be able to rush the passer. Well that’s a hard thing to do.”

That’s what teams like the Patriots did when they were a 3-4 team, with big Vince Wilfork in the middle, tying up blockers. It was also designed to allow the linebackers to create. Anyway, Phillips digresses. He was telling us about how he had guys who didn’t exactly fit that, and how he adjusted.

“We had a guy here with the Houston Oilers named Elvin Bethea,” Phillips continued. “We said, ‘Wait a minute. We don’t want to do that with that guy.’ We started stunting the guys and moving them and let them do what they do well, playing a 3-4, but playing a different way, Phillips 3-4 if you want to call it that. I had another guy named Bruce Smith that wasn’t bad at in a 3-4 [Note: Yeah, he was OK]. You can do it with guys, if they have the abilities, then you let them go more. If they don’t then you play a two-gap and just hold your ground all you can and let the linebackers make the plays. It’s all about what kind of players you have and let them do what they do best.”

This is Phillips’ point. That he does have an athletic freak like Watt who can fly past a tackle and still be stout against the run. That’s why, he doesn’t want Watt opening up stuff for others. He wants Watt to be the others.

“We try to get our best players one on one as much as we can,” Phillips continued. “You’re not going to get guys free all the time. You try to get matchups. Pro football is matchups where there are receivers, cornerbacks or d-linemen and offensive linemen and pass rushers, put them on guys that you think they match up well with. J.J. if we can just keep somebody else off of him, he’s got a chance to make plays as do some of our other guys.”
 
Rotoworld:

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel's Bob McGinn spoke with one NFL scout who believes South Carolina edge rusher Jadeveon Clowney's physical talent is being overblown.
"I would not put my job on the line for that guy," the scout said. "Who has a profile like that that's been successful in the NFL?... At what point in his life has he had to push himself?" This quote was printed prior to the NFL Combine, so we wonder if the evaluator has changed his tune. It seems the NFL scout is hung up on the "lazy" label Clowney has received, but prospects like Carlos Dunlap overcame similar tags, albeit not in the first round.

Source: Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel
 
Remember when everyone thought Jeffery was lazy and would be a bust in the NFL?
But there are also prospects labeled lazy that are busts.

Jeffery wasn't viewed as a potential #1 overall prospect. More risk in taking Clowney in the top 3.

 
Scout's Take Blog: Draft observations by an ex-NFL player, scout

By Bucky Brooks

NFL Media analyst

Excerpt:

Clowney critiques going too farPosted: March 2, 2014 at 1 p.m.

I've been one of Jadeveon Clowney's harshest critics, but I believe the concerns about his work ethic and character have been greatly exaggerated at this point. While I certainly respect the dissenting opinion shared by an anonymous scout in a recent Milwaukee Journal Sentinel story about the South Carolina star, I've been in enough war rooms to know the difference between a legitimate character concern and a case of complacency. After studying Clowney extensively for the past two seasons, there is no doubt in my mind that his inconsistent effort and energy is simply a case of an ultra-talented player lacking the self-awareness to understand his deficiencies.

Now, I'm certainly not in love with Clowney's lackluster enthusiasm and hustle in some games, but I also understand that these poor habits were likely ignored on the practice field by the head coach, defensive coordinator and several defensive assistants. If the Gamecocks' coaching staff didn't emphasize running to the ball or playing from snap to whistle, I can't hold Clowney completely responsible for his actions on the field. He is simply doing what he's been coached to do without regard for the urgency and tempo needed to excel as a pro.

That's why it's important for scouts to observe top prospects in practice to assess their work habits, while also seeing if they've been pushed or challenged by their coaches. This information is critical for decision makers because it provides context and perspective on where a prospect is in his development and how well he will fit into the culture of the locker room. Most importantly, it allows a general manager and head coach to determine whether they have the ideal position coach or coordinator to teach, motivate and encourage a talented prospect to maximize his potential.

During my time with the Carolina Panthers, I watched John Fox and Marty Hurney take a similar approach with Julius Peppers. The eight-time Pro Bowler was regarded as a mercurial talent with a questionable motor when he entered the NFL in 2002, but the Panthers believed their locker-room culture and coaching staff would bring out the best in Peppers. The no-nonsense coaching styles of Mike Trgovac, Sal Sunseri and Jack Del Rio (who left Carolina after Peppers' rookie season) pushed Peppers to excel, helping him earn the Defensive Rookie of the Year Award at season's end. Additionally, the presence of veteran leaders Brentson Buckner and Mike Rucker created an environment of accountability in the meeting room that prompted Peppers to raise his level of performance to fit in with the group.

With that in mind, I believe it's important for teams considering Clowney to understand the makeup of their coaching staff and locker room. If there is strong leadership present in both areas, Clowney will thrive and fulfill the lofty expectations that will accompany his arrival in league. The collective peer pressure will help him practice and perform at a level that matches his talent. Given Clowney's impressive physical dimensions, athleticism and disruptive potential, I'm confident the freakishly talented playmaker can become a dominant player in the league, if put in the right environment.
 
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Build them up, to knock them down. It's just the way of our celebrity culture. Too bad Clowney has been good for so long.

 
Bob Magaw said:
Remember when everyone thought Jeffery was lazy and would be a bust in the NFL?
But there are also prospects labeled lazy that are busts.

Jeffery wasn't viewed as a potential #1 overall prospect. More risk in taking Clowney in the top 3.
My view is that it's impossible for us to know who is going to be lazy in the NFL and won't be. Sure, there are warning signs for player like Clowney, but there are an awful lot of future lazy players either pretending right not that they are hard working or simply don't know how the money will change them.

 
Bob Magaw said:
Remember when everyone thought Jeffery was lazy and would be a bust in the NFL?
But there are also prospects labeled lazy that are busts.

Jeffery wasn't viewed as a potential #1 overall prospect. More risk in taking Clowney in the top 3.
My view is that it's impossible for us to know who is going to be lazy in the NFL and won't be. Sure, there are warning signs for player like Clowney, but there are an awful lot of future lazy players either pretending right not that they are hard working or simply don't know how the money will change them.
Understood, but there might be a higher risk of a player that didn't give full effort in college doing the same in the NFL, as opposed to a player that did. Someone will take the risk because of the massive upside. I did like the Brooks article a few posts above from today. Having the right coaching staff and a strong leadership structure and support system seemingly could mitigate some of that risk.

 
The effort thing in college was severely overblown. I think many scouts and reports are suggesting that now.

 
There's also the possibility that he never works as hard as fill-in-the-blank scrappy underdog guy and still racks up 10 sacks annually.

 
There's also the possibility that he never works as hard as fill-in-the-blank scrappy underdog guy and still racks up 10 sacks annually.
My advice is to only draft scrappy underdog guys. Why spend a top pick when those guys are so easy to find?

 
The effort thing in college was severely overblown. I think many scouts and reports are suggesting that now.
There are also many people suggesting it is a legit concern, like Mayock and Sapp during the combine coverage.

Add Kirwan to the list, with additional detail after looking at the Clemson game (this is one I remember questioning his effort).

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/pat-kirwan/24465640/with-nfl-business-season-here-watch-benchmark-deals-jimmy-graham-situation

Excerpt - "All I ever hear is Clowney was always double- and triple-teamed and that's why his sacks were down last season. Watch the Clemson game and draw your own conclusions. Clowney was never triple-teamed and rarely was double-teamed. In fact, Clemson wham-blocked him a number of times with a tight end from the backfield and it was effective. There's no doubt he is talented and can make an occasional big play, but he was on the ground at least five times. He shut down his rush or pursuit too many times, and when he tried to cross the face of the Clemson tackle or stunt inside over the guard he was too high many times and a good NFL offensive lineman will end the penetration. He's a good looking athlete who is a work in progress."

 
I thought this quote was interesting:

"Even though his production this year wasn't near what it was last year, he had two to three guys waiting on him just about every play," Spurrier said. "His run defense was very good, though. He chased down a bunch of guys and made tackles. His sacks, he had to go around two and three guys just about every game."
Now imagine if he was around someone who would teach him how to work hard, like say J.J. Watt...

 
Excerpt - "All I ever hear is Clowney was always double- and triple-teamed and that's why his sacks were down last season. Watch the Clemson game and draw your own conclusions. Clowney was never triple-teamed and rarely was double-teamed. In fact, Clemson wham-blocked him a number of times with a tight end from the backfield and it was effective. There's no doubt he is talented and can make an occasional big play, but he was on the ground at least five times. He shut down his rush or pursuit too many times, and when he tried to cross the face of the Clemson tackle or stunt inside over the guard he was too high many times and a good NFL offensive lineman will end the penetration. He's a good looking athlete who is a work in progress."
Here's a sack where he bull rushes Clemson's 317 lb. LT Brandon Thomas

On the following play he disrupts a run and causes an incompletion

The play after that he arm tackles the RB while laying on the ground

Near sack that could have caused an INT

Forcing Boyd to run the ball

Most of the game they either ran away from Clowney or they had an extra player blocking him.

And by the way, South Carolina won the game.

 
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i wonder where clowney is without that hit in the bowl game against Michigan
Preparing to be drafted top 5.
perhaps

but that hit sent his hype through the roof. i think without it the hype is down considerably. The question is how much does hype influence scouts and gms. I do not buy "none" as the answer
Don't underestimate the scouting community. They know what Clowney can do. They know he's a freak of nature and are aware of the incredible upside. They don't sit back and throw down a few brewskis replay "the hit" on youtube over and over. He will go top 2 or 3 at the least because nobody wants to be the guy who drafted Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan.

 
I don't see the lack of effort on the field, but I can see by his mistakes where he could have worked harder to be an even greater player. I sympathize with Spurrier on that.

 
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i wonder where clowney is without that hit in the bowl game against Michigan
Preparing to be drafted top 5.
perhaps

but that hit sent his hype through the roof. i think without it the hype is down considerably. The question is how much does hype influence scouts and gms. I do not buy "none" as the answer
Don't underestimate the scouting community. They know what Clowney can do. They know he's a freak of nature and are aware of the incredible upside. They don't sit back and throw down a few brewskis replay "the hit" on youtube over and over. He will go top 2 or 3 at the least because nobody wants to be the guy who drafted Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan.
don't overestimate them either, they are human they are subject to the same things we are. there's no way they escaped the hype, even clowney says the hype from that hit made expectations for him unrealistic. That hit has had a fundamental impact on how everyone sees him. who knows, perhaps overall it has hurt him because expectations were raised so high, I am not saying he is a one hit wonder, i just wonder what if that hit had just been a normal tackle for loss, then what

 
Thought this was interesting from an interview with TE Eric Ebron:

SN: You’re a freakish athlete. Then a little down south, on the other side of the ball, there’s Jadeveon Clowney. What impresses you about him?

Ebron: We played against each other twice, in college and high school. He’s different. He’s in a class of his own and I really respect him. Working out with him, I can’t question his work ethic. He works hard, he trains hard, he’s in treatment when he needs it. I don’t find those flaws in Jadeveon. … We’ve bonded. We’ve built a friendship that’s going to last. That’s my boy and I respect everything he does.
 
Excerpt - "All I ever hear is Clowney was always double- and triple-teamed and that's why his sacks were down last season. Watch the Clemson game and draw your own conclusions. Clowney was never triple-teamed and rarely was double-teamed. In fact, Clemson wham-blocked him a number of times with a tight end from the backfield and it was effective. There's no doubt he is talented and can make an occasional big play, but he was on the ground at least five times. He shut down his rush or pursuit too many times, and when he tried to cross the face of the Clemson tackle or stunt inside over the guard he was too high many times and a good NFL offensive lineman will end the penetration. He's a good looking athlete who is a work in progress."
I have no doubt he is capable of making plays. My concern is can/will he do it consistently?

My recollection is on some of the plays ran away from him, he just sort of gave up and stood around.

The double team issue does speak to the respect opposing offenses pay him, but don't great pass rushers generally face extra attention and find ways to defeat it? If he had trouble with that at the college level, what will it be like in the NFL?

Were you surprised/disappointed with just three sacks on the season?

 
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Rotoworld:

In a recent installment of Bucky Brooks' "Man vs. Machine" series, the NFL Insight computer spit out Jason Pierre-Paul and Carlos Dunlap as comparables for South Carolina edge player Jadeveon Clowney.
It's hard to find testing comparisons for the freakishly athletic Clowney, but Pierre-Paul and Dunlap will have to do (for the record, Clowney's 4.53 forty and 1.56 10-yard shuttle destroyed JPP's 4.78/1.68 and Dunlap's 4.71/1.65, respectively). "With Clowney sporting similar physical dimensions and athletic characteristics, the comparisons to Pierre-Paul stand out to me due to his dominance as an edge rusher for the New York Giants," wrote Brooks. "Although injuries have kept Pierre-Paul from playing at a Pro Bowl level the past two seasons, coaches and scouts still view the Giants star as an elite rusher in the league. If Clowney can up the energy and effort in his play, there's no reason why he shouldn't surpass Pierre-Paul on the way to becoming the league's premier pass rusher."

Source: NFL.com
 
Some question whether Clowney would be a good fit in HOU with a 3-4.

ATL made a few DL moves today (MIA DT could play NT, Tyson Jackson a 3-4 DE, brought by ex-KC GM Pioli, with guard Asomoah) that seem to suggest a move to a 3-4 (ESPN mentioned DC Nolan returning to his odd front roots).

Perhaps that now makes ATL a questionable destination (trade up to 1.2 candidate, having been linked with STL a lot previously) for the same reason HOU is?

Or maybe they will envision him as a viable 3-4 OLB?

 
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Rotoworld:

Scouts Inc.'s Kevin Weidl believes there is a major drop off at DE after Jadeveon Clowney.
"In fact, Missouri's Kony Ealy and Notre Dame's Stephon Tuitt are the only other two defensive ends who hold fringe first-round grades at this point," Weidl writes. The evaluator notes UCLA's Anthony Barr and Dee Ford count as hybrid edge rushers, but also carry fringe first-round tags. He is not a true defensive end, but Khalil Mack also offers plenty of edge rushing skill. Rotoworld's Josh Norris would add names like Jeremiah Attaochu, Marcus Smith and Demarcus Lawrence as possible top 50 pass rushers.

Source: ESPN
 
Rotoworld:

The Sideline View's Lance Zierlein says an AFC offensive line coach told him South Carolina edge player Jadeveon Clowney will struggle his rookie year.
"Spoke with AFC oline coach who is studying SEC OTs & he thinks Clowney will struggle his rookie year as OTs will play him for inside move," Zierlein tweeted. Zierlein added that the same oline coach "was less than impressed with Clowney’s edge rush skills & thinks he is too dependent on inside moves." Clowney still has room to grow with his technique as a edge rusher, but still remains a rare prospect on the field. Clowney's freakish speed and power off the edge will create problems for opposing offensive tackles. Moving forward, the key thing for Clowney is just putting it all together.

Source: Lance Zierlein on Twitter
 

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