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Arthur Brown, The Next Luke Keuchly (1 Viewer)

Bracie Smathers said:
massraider said:
Add Alonso to that list of opening day starters.
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I haven't seen him. Did you get a chance to see him?

I can't follow them all so what did you notice where you think he'll start?
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Kiko's probably starting, good bet to play all 3 downs. Longevity is my concern with him, he's better than Casey Matthews vs. the run but is he strong enough to be an every down guy for the long run? I think we'll see this year.

I still think second guessing Brown is crazy, but this is a strong LB class - has been all along imho. Only issue with Brown is if the hernia is still impacting his game. There's going to be several quality idp options from this crop though, add Sio Moore to Bracie's post too. Minter not until 2014 and probably Bostic too...and I have doubts about Te'o in passing downs...some deep sleepers I'm on board with too.

It was just a quarter and a half but the only LB I'm really concerned about right now is Ogletree. In that quarter and a half he displayed all of his cons coming out, and in some cases multiple times. It was a dreadful performance. Enormous upside's still there, but he's not going to be a 3 down player with more games like that one.

 
Yeah, watched the game.

He was getting work with the 1's, and nickel work as well, had a nice pass breakup. He is already listed as the starter, and he is a guy I am targeting for now, as I think he has a clearer path to lots of snaps than Brown or Bostic, and I expect both of them to be drafted before him.

In my two main money leagues, LBs are king, and we can start 5, so I have really been paying attention to the rookies, and guys fighting for starting jobs.

Alec Ogletree: From what I saw in the first game, looked like just a guy. Rather tentative, I didn't see much from him, and I was focusing on him every play. Going to keep an eye on him. Was lining up on the left side as well, which I didn't like. Dunbar was the WLB, or RLB, and I'd think Ogletree would fit better over there. Going to really keep an eye on him the next two weeks.

Jon Bostic: Got a ton of work in the first half against Carolina, and looked OK. Had a good pick in coverage, ran it back. Made a nice play scraping along the line, and forcing a runner to the sideline. Got caught up in trash on between the tackles stuff, which doesn't surprise me. Had heard he wasn't particularly fast, but looked fast enough to me. He's no Rolando McClain, speed-wise.

Khaseem Greene: Wasn't focusing on him, but he flashed. SImilar to Bostic, in that he looked good in space, caught up in scrimmage trash sometimes. Doubt he is beating out briggs or Anderson, but I noticed him for sure. He was really decisive, sees it and goes. Made a nice goalline tackle; he was unblocked, but showed good instincts, flying into the hole, and making the stop.

Quick note from that game: Carolina D-line looked good, the and rookie DTs, Star Lotolelei and Shirt, both looked pretty good.

Mark Herzlich: Dunno if Dan Connor is a realistic threat. But man, he ain't fast. Whoever wins the MLB job, it'll be 2 down work at best. Think i saw Williams in the nickel over him, with Paysinger. Not really big on any Giant LB. J. Williams might have the most tackles there. Side note from that game: Damontre Moore had a great game.

Jarvis Jones: Worilds started across from Woodley, Worilds also got some really dumb penalty. Jones didn't get in till the 2nd quarter, and the Steelers D wasn't on the field much. Recovered a fumble when he was just backside pursuit, and the back dropped it. He had two plays where he seemed to set the edge, but didn't make the tackle for a loss. Maybe in a few weeks he makes those plays. He's pretty strong, wasn't getting blown back.

 
Personally I thought Paysinger looked very good, agree on the MLB situation on the Giants, if Connor is a step up, you got major issues. I see Paysinger and Williams or Rivers as the nickel backers and Paysinger/???/Rivers starting. I suppose Williams could get in instead, but Paysinger looked pretty fast and seemed to be in on several plays in his short time on the field. Boley actually was pretty consistent from the WLB spot for the Giants in FF terms, whoever wins that job will probably be a solid starter. Obviously only game one and hard to read too much into things, but certainly worth keeping an eye on.

Paysinger had 5 tackles in 19 defensive snaps.

Williams had 28 snaps and registered only a pass defense.

http://nflgsis.com/2013/Pre/02/56108/Gamebook.pdf

 
MAC_32 said:
... I still think second guessing Brown is crazy, but this is a strong LB class - has been all along imho. Only issue with Brown is if the hernia is still impacting his game. There's going to be several quality idp options from this crop though, add Sio Moore to Bracie's post too. Minter not until 2014 and probably Bostic too...and I have doubts about Te'o in passing downs...some deep sleepers I'm on board with too.It was just a quarter and a half but the only LB I'm really concerned about right now is Ogletree. In that quarter and a half he displayed all of his cons coming out, and in some cases multiple times. It was a dreadful performance. Enormous upside's still there, but he's not going to be a 3 down player with more games like that one.
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Per Baltimore Raven rookie ILB Aurthur Brown - I haven't second-guessed A-Brown, I never bought into the original hype for a couple of reasons.

The Ravens had Ellerbee and Kruger developing for four years before either of them really produced. Ellerbie lead all of their LBers in tackles and he only had 66 with 23 of those being assists. Fourty-three solo tackles doesn't pay much in terms of IDP points in my league for a linebacker. Jameel McClain was second in terms of tackles from the Raven LBers and he had 56 tackles with 22 assists.

Those tackle numbers and the fact the Ravens tend to develop rookie linebackers over time was the original reason I didn't buy into the hype but at that time I didn't even realize that he got taken after all of those other inside linebackers. For some reason, probably all of the buzz, I assumed he was taken higher than the 54th pick. Add in the heriia surgery and missing crucial installs.and now we haven't heard much about him from camp or heard much about him in the first X-game.

I don't know what to think of him since we have been patiently waiting to see him in action but haven't heard or seen enough yet.

Per St. Louis Rams rookie LB Alec Ogletree - The one time Ogletree stood out was on a solid solo stop. He brought the wood to one of the Browns RBs and it impressed me so that caught my eye originally but after that he looked sloppy.

He won't beat out Laurinitus in the middle so nice ob by MassRaider that he got work on the outside, that makes sense. If they are using him at two positions, as a backup in the middle and getting him work on the outside then it makes sense that a rookie has a lot on his plate right now and he'd look lost.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Per St. Louis Rams rookie LB Alec Ogletree - The one time Ogletree stood out was on a solid solo stop. He brought the wood to one of the Browns RBs and it impressed me so that caught my eye originally but after that he looked sloppy.

He won't beat out Laurinitus in the middle so nice ob by MassRaider that he got work on the outside, that makes sense. If they are using him at two positions, as a backup in the middle and getting him work on the outside then it makes sense that a rookie has a lot on his plate right now and he'd look lost.
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And Jo-Lonn Dunbar ate up lots of tackles already from the SOLB last year, 114 (+ 8.5 big plays) . With Laurinitus getting 142 (w/ 2.5 big plays).

 
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PFF just put up their takes/grades on EVERY 1st and 2nd round pick from the 2013 NFL draft.

Here is what they said about the LBers discussed in this thread who were drafted in those rounds.

The guy that they've got rated the highest is Bostic at a +1.4, the lowest was Ogeltree at a -1.7.

Obviously still pretty early but this is how they graded the first and second rounders.

First round PFF grades.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/08/12/rookie-review-first-round-rookies-preseason-week-1/

[SIZE=small]30. Alec Ogletree, LB, St Louis Rams[/SIZE]
Grade: -1.7
Snaps: 23 with the starters
Analysis: While a nice tackle for a loss is what Rams will want to see more of, they’ll be less inclined to see him give up a touchdown and first down as he did in game one. The NFL can be a steep learning curve, especially if you’re to be an every-down player from Day 1.

Second round link from PFF

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/08/13/rookie-review-second-round-rookies-preseason-week-1/

38. Manti Te’o, ILB, San Diego Chargers

Grade: -0.4

Snaps: 9 snaps with starting base defense; came off the field on passing downs

Analysis: Not an action-packed game for Te’o, whose grade stems largely from running into a block on one of his four snaps against the run.

45. Kevin Minter, ILB, Arizona Cardinals

Grade: -0.5

Snaps: 31 snaps with the second string defense

Analysis: Not a bad start for Minter who recorded five tackles, including three stops, but his third-quarter whiff on fellow rookie Johnathan Franklin is one he’ll want back.

46. Kiko Alonso, ILB, Buffalo Bills

Grade: -0.5

Snaps: 22 snaps with starting defense

Analysis: Alonso was all over the field in the first quarter, though not always in a good way. He looked a little tentative against the run at times, but he made a nice play covering TE Coby Fleener down the seam, knocking away a potential touchdown.

50. Jon Bostic, MLB, Chicago Bears

Grade: +1.4

Snaps: 27 snaps with the starters

Analysis: Bostic had one of the plays of the game as he read quarterback Cam Newton’s eyes, jumped his pass, and took it back for a touchdown. He has some work to do in the running game as he overshot a gap and got handled at the second level a couple times, but overall, a nice first week for Bostic.



56. Arthur Brown, ILB, Baltimore Ravens

Grade: -0.1

Snaps: 21 snaps with first-team nickel defense

Analysis: Spent most of his time on the field in coverage (12 of his 21 snaps), but did manage to record an unblocked pressure on a rare chance to go after the QB.

 
Here is some news that will help Ogletree:

From RotoWorld:

NFL suspended WLB Jo-Lonn Dunbar four games for violating the league's policy against performance enhancing substances.
The Rams likely knew about this awhile ago, because they signed Will Witherspoon as veteran insurance. Witherspoon now figures to open the season as St. Louis' starting weak-side linebacker, across from rookie Alec Ogletree. It's a concern for the early-season run defense, where Dunbar excelled in 2012. He finished last season with 115 tackles, 4.5 sacks, and two forced fumbles.

This may assure him of a starting spot and a chance to prove himself, at least for 4 games.
 
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Dynasty, no doubt I would take Brown, redraft Daryl Smith will lead the Raven's in tackles this year barring injury. He was all over the place and in on just about every tackle, I haven't looked what his final tackle numbers were yet, but i would guess 5-7 in about a half.

Just looked and he had 6 tackles and a PD in the first half.

 
The Claymaker said:
Dynasty, no doubt I would take Brown, redraft Daryl Smith will lead the Raven's in tackles this year barring injury. He was all over the place and in on just about every tackle, I haven't looked what his final tackle numbers were yet, but i would guess 5-7 in about a half.

Just looked and he had 6 tackles and a PD in the first half.
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Smith is the stealth-signing of the off-season for the Ravens.

 
ogletree was already ticketed for three down LB role because of the former safety's (karlos dansby-like collegiate-NFL career path) pass rush and cover skills, whether dunbar had been suspended or not...

he was their highest pedigree LB in a while (laurinaitis high second)...

i still like brown and alonso best in dynasty, i don't have a great feel for bostic or teo yet, but bostic could surprise, i think he is underrated...

STL is using left and right designation at LB (like JAX did few years back), ogletree is listed as left... since most (all?) teams are right handed, he will effectively be playing SLB most of time... he is athletic and talented enought to producer here (like greenway in MIN, i think derrick johnson played there before moving inside?)...

seemingly his strong suit would be to run and chase sideline-to-sideline so ostensibly WLB skill set, BUT, as noted, he has pretty versatile game, can rush and cover, so could be pretty good there, too... he played outside and inside at georgia, finished at MLB... of course, laurinaitis isn't going anywhere, but even before going to STL, some scouts like mayock thought he wasn't take on guy adept at getting off blocks... which is why i have mild concern he might be put to better use at seemingly more natural position of WLB... he is sometimes compared to bulluck, another former collegiate safety LB conversion (urlacher also fit the safety to LB profile) who played for fisher in TEN, and i recall him playing WLB? all of these guys were excellent in coverage...

in big play leagues, don't forget about pats second rounder (first overall pick after, surprise, surprise, trading down with SF and getting 2,3 & 4) jamie collins... another guy who was safety, blew up to LB size, even played DE as senior... he could have higher upside than justin houston with few years of development... most pass rushing LBs can't tackle well (or tackling LBs can't pass rushwell, somewhat unusual skill set to be capable of 40-50+ solos and 10+ sacks)... collins can, and could probably play MLB if needed, or any position in 4-3 or 3-4, inside or outside, as well as DE...

he had like 41" VJ, and something like 11'7" broad jump, breaking combine record in process (calvin johnson was among previous leaders?)... seriously explosive dude, insane athleticism, but not a workout warrior, bolted onto legit run and pass defense instincts...

* amother interesting thing about so many quality LB prospects in second round (brown, alonso, teo, bostic and collins), maybe it was just cyclical phenomenon, but round two was money round for LBs in 2012 (after kuechly in first, of course :) )...

wagner, kendricks (slow start as rookie, but looks poised for big things as ILB with ryans), zach brown and lavonte david all went in second stanza... not sure about kendricks, but wagner among top 3-5 young MLB/ILBs in league (with kuechly and bowman), david maybe best young WLB in game (weatherspoon outstanding if healthy, bruce carter has athleticism and talent to be best in new tampa cover two 4-3), and zach brown could be top 5 WLB... unquestionably one of fastest and maybe the most impressive size/speed freak LB in the league, he can run a 4.3 at nearly 250 lbs, and was a lot more physical (and not contact-shy) than advertised...

 
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ShaHBucks said:
Paul Worrilow might be the next Luke Kuechly for the price of pennies.
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+1 on Worrilow!

I got Daryl Smith too for insurance on A.Brown. He actually looks like he knows what he's doing on the field, whereas A.Brown looks a little lost at times. Maybe he'll catch up by week 1, but I'm putting D.Smith in my lineup in the meantime.

 
I know Bynes started a game last year for Baltimore when Ellerbe was out and he had something like 12 solos. I am certainly not suggesting he is a better long term answer than Brown, but they may just work brown in slowly and Bynes certainly did not appear to be a liability when he played last year.

 
http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2013/8/21/4643482/linebacker-position-battle-josh-bynes-vs-arthur-brown

"Josh Bynes has been named a starter for now, though Arthur Brown still has time to make up ground.

Though there's currently a position battle for the Will linebacker spot, it becomes Jameel McClain's whenever he's able to return to the playing field. But for now, Josh Bynes and Arthur Brown are trying to prove they belong to start. Thus far, Bynes has been given the upper hand in the position battle too. Coach John Harbaugh, multiple times, has said Bynes has earned the starting job. However, the third preseason game is just one day away, signaling that there's still time for the head coach to change his mind.

Here's a look at why each linebacker deserves the starting spot, with a prediction at the end:

Why Bynes should start: Bynes is a run-stopping linebacker that can stand tailbacks up and drive them back. He's definitely in the same mold as someone like McClain, which is ideal for a division like the AFC North. But there are plenty of teams Baltimore will play this season that like to throw the ball around. The need for a coverage linebacker is there, meaning that even though Brown may not open the season starting, he should still receive a lot of playing time.

Why Brown should start: Brown may be somewhat undersized at 6-1 and 241 pounds, but he can still deliver hits with the best of them. He also has the needed agility for today's spread offenses in the NFL. He can run sideline to sideline and keep running plays from turning the corner, as well as defend the underneath passing game. He's a young linebacker and could use the early experience to his advantage, as he figures to be one of Baltimore's inside linebackers for the long-term.

Prediction: Though Brown winds up being Baltimore's best rookie in 2013, Bynes (or McClain) winds up starting. But much like Dannell Ellerbe a year ago, Brown will get plenty of playing time when the Ravens face pass-happy teams Denver, Green Bay, Chicago, Detroit and New England. During more traditional teams, especially the AFC North foes, the Ravens will probably prefer a run-stopping linebacker first that can force them in third-and-long situations."

 
Here's a breakdown of Daryl Smith, Josh Bynes and Arthur Brown on the first few series against the Panthers.

Josh Bynes got the start alongside Daryl Smith. Played first two downs. Brown in for Bynes on a pair of 3rd downs due to a penalty, both nickel against 11 personnel,. Brown switched sides to be on man coverage on Greg Olsen both plays.

Next series starts again with nickel against 11 personnel, Smith and Brown, think Brown blitzed 1st play, was hard to tell as broadcast was late getting back from commercial. Second play he stayed right side it became strong side as Olsen switched ends, Ravens dropped into zone. Third play 2nd and short, stayed right/weak side, Olsen lined up on other end. 3rd and 1, Brown out, Bynes in on weak side against 21 personnel.

3rd Panthers drive. 22 personnel on 1st down, Bynes, in weak side. 2nd and 10, 21 personnel, Bynes still in... Olsen switches to offensive left and Bynes switches away from him to move to weak side. Soon as play ends with only short gain Bynes immediately turns to head to sideline, so he's expecting to be pulled on passing downs it looks like. Panthers in 11 personnel, Ravens nickel, Brown in weak side but end of quarter before snap. After commercial, same setup though Olsen switched end of line and Brown switched to stay weak side, had coverage on RB. 2nd and 8, 11 personnel, Brown switches to cover Olsen who was on a short split out from line. 3rd and 8, 11 personnel, pretty much same formation, this time Brown is weak side, Smith gets coverage while Brown rushes (not sure if blitz or if he was covering RB who stayed in to block... he didn't show much burst on the rush so might be latter).

So usage was Bynes handling the running downs weak side, Brown handling passing downs and nickel, and Daryl Smith being the every down ILB.

 
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Greg Russell said:
Here's a breakdown of Daryl Smith, Josh Bynes and Arthur Brown on the first few series against the Panthers.

Josh Bynes got the start alongside Daryl Smith. Played first two downs. Brown in for Bynes on a pair of 3rd downs due to a penalty, both nickel against 11 personnel,. Brown switched sides to be on man coverage on Greg Olsen both plays.

Next series starts again with nickel against 11 personnel, Smith and Brown, think Brown blitzed 1st play, was hard to tell as broadcast was late getting back from commercial. Second play he stayed right side it became strong side as Olsen switched ends, Ravens dropped into zone. Third play 2nd and short, stayed right/weak side, Olsen lined up on other end. 3rd and 1, Brown out, Bynes in on weak side against 21 personnel.

3rd Panthers drive. 22 personnel on 1st down, Bynes, in weak side. 2nd and 10, 21 personnel, Bynes still in... Olsen switches to offensive left and Bynes switches away from him to move to weak side. Soon as play ends with only short gain Bynes immediately turns to head to sideline, so he's expecting to be pulled on passing downs it looks like. Panthers in 11 personnel, Ravens nickel, Brown in weak side but end of quarter before snap. After commercial, same setup though Olsen switched end of line and Brown switched to stay weak side, had coverage on RB. 2nd and 8, 11 personnel, Brown switches to cover Olsen who was on a short split out from line. 3rd and 8, 11 personnel, pretty much same formation, this time Brown is weak side, Smith gets coverage while Brown rushes (not sure if blitz or if he was covering RB who stayed in to block... he didn't show much burst on the rush so might be latter).

So usage was Bynes handling the running downs weak side, Brown handling passing downs and nickel, and Daryl Smith being the every down ILB.
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This was a great read. Thank you very much for taking the time to do this. I think we'll see Brown become an every down LB by the end of the season. Once he gets use to the speed of the game and study tape and refines his game I think he will become a significant force on the Ravens defense.

 
dahabi said:
So he only got 6 snaps last night...didnt see that coming.
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According to PFF this is the only sub package when he saw the field.

Pro Football Focus‏@PFF7h

1-5-5 had DL = Ngata, 5xLB = Smith, A.Brown (only time he comes on for Bynes), Suggs, Upshaw, Dumervil (only pacakage last 2 used together)

 
I got Arthur Brown in a trade for a bag of peanuts (a safety) which I find easy as heck to manufacture as opposed to a potential 3-Down LB. Man I hope Brown doesn't bust but it was too good of a deal to pass up. In that league I'm building for 2014 so maybe that will be perfect for me.

 
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Mistabishi said:
I got Arthur Brown in a trade for a bag of peanuts (a safety) which I find easy as heck to manufacture as opposed to a potential 3-Down LB. Man I hope Brown doesn't bust but it was too good of a deal to pass up. In that week I'm building for 2014 so maybe that will be perfect for me.
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No matter at that price, nice!

 
Papa John said:
Mistabishi said:
I got Arthur Brown in a trade for a bag of peanuts (a safety) which I find easy as heck to manufacture as opposed to a potential 3-Down LB. Man I hope Brown doesn't bust but it was too good of a deal to pass up. In that week I'm building for 2014 so maybe that will be perfect for me.
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No matter at that price, nice!
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Thanks! I had to give up Kam. I have no chance at even getting within 5 games of the playoffs this season and the other owner needed one more piece. I have several starting or near starting young SS so I had it to spare. If Brown gets a starting gig next season I will be a happy camper and a contender.

Brown's value has to be the lowest it will ever be right now. The same with Bostic so it might be worth knocking on that owner's door. I took a shot at Teo but that owner knew better, lol.

 
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Mistabishi said:
Papa John said:
Mistabishi said:
I got Arthur Brown in a trade for a bag of peanuts (a safety) which I find easy as heck to manufacture as opposed to a potential 3-Down LB. Man I hope Brown doesn't bust but it was too good of a deal to pass up. In that week I'm building for 2014 so maybe that will be perfect for me.
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No matter at that price, nice!
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Thanks! I had to give up Kam. I have no chance at even getting within 5 games of the playoffs this season and the other owner needed one more piece. I have several starting or near starting young SS so I had it to spare. If Brown gets a starting gig next season I will be a happy camper and a contender.Brown's value has to be the lowest it will ever be right now. The same with Bostic so it might be worth knocking on that owner's door. I took a shot at Teo but that owner knew better, lol.
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I'd love to, but in my league, the guy with Bostic also had Brown who he just dealt him for a hefty price. Oh well can't get them all.

I am a huge subscriber to buying low on Brown if you can get him in dynasty.

 
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The Claymaker said:
Dynasty, no doubt I would take Brown, redraft Daryl Smith will lead the Raven's in tackles this year barring injury. He was all over the place and in on just about every tackle, I haven't looked what his final tackle numbers were yet, but i would guess 5-7 in about a half.

Just looked and he had 6 tackles and a PD in the first half.
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If you picked up Smith as suggested (I did where I could) you are feeling pretty good right now. Smith has been a stud so far.

 
Bynes has been playing pretty well so maybe he gets the job back as soon as he's healthy, but let's hope Brown at least puts himself in the conversation with a good performance.

 
watchout for Jameel McClain, he was the starter last year and is practicing in full after being on the PUP list to start the year, i would watch the week to see who gets the snaps majority

 
They haven't activated McClain yet, have they? Believe they have until 4pm today to do it. They did list him as probable, even though he's not yet on the 53-man roster.

What's all this mean for Daryl Smith's value?

 
Diamond said:
They haven't activated McClain yet, have they? Believe they have until 4pm today to do it. They did list him as probable, even though he's not yet on the 53-man roster.

What's all this mean for Daryl Smith's value?
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As a Brown owner I hope he makes Smith's stat line look pathetic. :cool:

 
Mistabishi said:
Young 8 said:
I'm glad I drafted this guy instead of Alonso or Bostic.....
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His career is young but so far he's done nothing with his opportunity. Keuchly started slow in his first few games before exploding though.
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Yeah but Keuchly had Beason in front of him, Brown apparently couldn't beat Josh Bynes and today even Jameel "I haven't played since last december" McClain played more than him.

 
Right now, I bet Brown owners would be happy wth "The next Rolando McClain", or perhaps "The next Casey Mathews"

 
Jameel McClain will start at inside linebacker in Sunday's game against the Browns.

Sounds like the next Kuechly is now 4th in the Depth Chart.

:help:

 
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