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Another killing at the hands of the Police (2 Viewers)
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whoknew
Footballguy
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Not the temperament I would be looking for in a law enforcement officer.Bucky86 said:
That is the reason why they become cops in the first place, unless there is a draft for cops good luck.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
in my experience such individuals are a very distinct minority. That said, the damage one such person can do on a Department is large. I mean that individual is going to work what 250 shifts during a year answering maybe 10 calls per shift giving that one officer 2500 opportunities to conduct himself shamefully. That one officer can leave a larger impression in the mind of the public than the other 900 officer on a force who conduct themselves admirably. This is part of human perception.
Now none of the foregoing is to excuse the behavior. That behavior cannot be excused and needs to be rooted out, with alacrity and certainty.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Store is to blame, why even call the cops over a doll in the first place. Take the small loss and move on.Bucky86 said:
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Wow. I usually try to give the cop the benefit of the doubt in these cases but this is ridiculous.
Yenrub
Footballguy
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/police-in-california-shot-55-times-in-35-seconds-and-killed-willie-mccoy-thats-reasonable-report-says/ar-AACRBJe?ocid=ientp
A quote from the story strikes me as weird
A quote from the story strikes me as weird
If the police knew he was unconscious why shoot him?
Came here specifically to get a pulse on this one. Nary a mention.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Will be interesting hearing more about it...from the official story, it looks justified. Kid shot another person and stole the car...if he rammed the cops who were there to serve the warrant (US Marshals) and then got out of the car with a gun...they were certainly justified in taking him down.
KCitons
Footballguy
The police brutality and the store loss are two different things. One should not effect the other.Summer Wheat said:
I spent decades working in retail loss prevention. I've seen people from all walks of life steal things. White, black, elderly, nuns, it's a problem that continues to get worse. The lack of respect towards businesses and loss prevention personnel is the reason I got out of that line of work. When I started in the 90's it was an occasional incident that concluded with very little physical altercation. Near the end of my career, it was a physical altercation nearly every time. I've been dragged by a car, punched, an had weapons pulled on me. As you would say, "all over a doll (or any other item they wanted). The last company I worked for started moving away from having LP agents stop the shoplifter. Instead they would notify the police and either they would show up while the shoplifter is still there, apprehend them as they were driving down the street, or fill out a police report that would result in a warrant for their arrest. It just wasn't worth risking the liability of having a store employee hurt.
I also saw an increase in parents using kids and minors as a vehicle to shoplift items. I've seen mothers use strollers and hide items around their baby. I've seen parents steal items and allow their kids to take stuff as well. It's a learned behavior. Up until a couple of years ago, employee theft cost retailers more than external theft (shoplifters). That is no longer the case. It's a problem that needs to be addressed. And it starts with the parents.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Phoenix situation gets worse
Police turned off their cams before the incident, omitted their threats to kill the family, said they feared for their lives. Lucky for this family the incident was caught on a cell video.
https://twitter.com/qasimrashid/status/1139922742046838785?s=21
Police turned off their cams before the incident, omitted their threats to kill the family, said they feared for their lives. Lucky for this family the incident was caught on a cell video.
https://twitter.com/qasimrashid/status/1139922742046838785?s=21
Apple Jack
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
When we see officers who disregard professionalism and ethics get away it repeatedly, it’s no wonder some cops act like they are untouchable. We need to have firm consequences for those caught violating the code of conduct to send a clear message to all other officers and those hoping to become officers.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I would say this us unbelievable but unfortunately this is standard procedure in most cases. No dash cam. No body cam. Lied on the report. Nothing new. Typical daily police work.
I’ve known dozens of cops at local, city & state levels. Power tripping is part of the appeal for them, and most white cops IME are racists af.
I’ve known dozens of cops at local, city & state levels. Power tripping is part of the appeal for them, and most white cops IME are racists af.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I won’t fully go there but I’ve known 3 officers pretty well. My uncle is a retired cop and a great guy. He’s half Japanese so he dealt with a lot of racism himself but he was an honest and well meaning officer. The other 2 were “friends” from high school/college and were just abhorrent racist aggressive hateful #######s.
I was close friends with a guy in my mid 20’s who later went on to be a cop and ultimately a Lieutenant in the local police force. Played years of flag football and YMCA B-ball with him and my wife and I socialized with he and his GF a lot. Guy constantly got into fights in sports, to the point where players on other teams all knew him and went after him. He was easily provoked and also very aggressive. I lost touch with him years later but he was in the local media a lot and always seemed to be having trouble with the minority population around here, excessive use of force issues if I recall. Don’t really recall him being explicitly racist though. Just that hyper-aggression all the time.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
One of the guys I knew also worked as a bouncer a bar/night club that I frequented in my early 20s. He is a massive man and he used every form of intimidation possible to try and stop non-whites from getting it. He and the place itself were pretty open about that. He also would card me and give me crap even though we had always been on friendly terms and he knew I was 21.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I’m painting with a broad brush, & it’s obviously not true of everyone in LE. But it definitely is true the profession attracts a certain type of #######.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Same and again, my uncle is a laid back easy going guy who served for 30+ hears in the force.
On Facebook I am friends with two cops that I have known since elementary school, one was essentially the school bully (thought I got along with him), while the other was generally nice though they were both exceptionally dumb. The first guy was always conservative, but now is full blown OAN/white supremacist adjacent stuff/talking about cracking heads with other cops while living out in the middle of safe suburbs. He does not use his real name as a facebook handle. I guess the second might be an ok cop? He does not post much but I am in FF leagues with his dad. They need ways to screen out people that are in it for the power, as well as severely punish people that misuse their role in society. Anything that happens with your camera off should be automatically considered unjustified by default. Someone getting shot with the camera off should automatically be a murder charge. Don't want to get arrested? Leave the camera on then. They should also stop preferentially hiring vets, civilian law enforcement and occupying hostile territory are not overlapping skill sets. They need to be constantly reminded they are civilians, feels like most cops like to pretend they are special forces or whatever patrolling the walmart parking lot with military surplus gear.
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Youngish (30) guy in my church is an FBI agent, and just an all around great guy. Def are good cops out there. But looking at it across the spectrum, in totality, it seems like a profession which attracts guys with jerky personalities and a particularly narrow worldview.
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
I also have a neighbor who is an FBI agent and seems like a nice guy. Although I think he mostly just does computer work looking at data, records, etc. He's not out in the field chasing people with guns,. Also I remember another guy from school who has always been a great guy was in the Border Patrol and now ATF I think. He was always really mild mannered and well intentioned.
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I’ve had several encounters with police over the years and I have to say in all but one I was treated very well, respectfully and in multiple cases was let go with just warnings (it endlessly annoys my wife). In one encounter, when I was young and stupid, I should have got a DWI. The cop was a huge intimidating State trooper too, I was shaking like a leaf and certain my life was ruined. I’ve been let off with warnings for speeding several times over the years as well.
I had one negative encounter, which to this day I still don’t understand. I was driving in town, on my way to the local library, and turned in front of a cop. Not “turned in front of” as in “cut off”. I had seen him and he was far away, it was a routine turn anyone would have made. I got out of my vehicle-completely oblivious that anything was up-and this cop came screaming into the parking lot literally right in front of me as I was getting out and began screaming and berating me. I just did what we have to do-ate a large dose of humble pie and apologized for ...who knows what. The cop I guess felt I didn’t yield to him. He left after getting his rant on with no further issues.
But I recognize I have a specific advantage in dealing with LE that a lot of other people don’t have.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Imo the issues that we see is not necessarily the cops and more the system they work in. When these otherwise good folks are forced to hit their numbers and show no mercy or be ridiculed or never promoted it sets up this toxic culture that leads to a lot of the issues we see.
Add to that the the fact that you often have cops policing communities they aren’t a part of. And when you don’t know the community or may go into it already fearful of that community then it can lead to many issues. If i pull over the guy i see in the grocery store all the time or the guy whose kid goes to my daycare i may be more prone to de-escalate than if i just know that the community has high crime statistics.
All the cops i know are good dudes. I feel like most are. But i feel there are numerous systemic flaws that lead to what we are seeing all over the country.
Add to that the the fact that you often have cops policing communities they aren’t a part of. And when you don’t know the community or may go into it already fearful of that community then it can lead to many issues. If i pull over the guy i see in the grocery store all the time or the guy whose kid goes to my daycare i may be more prone to de-escalate than if i just know that the community has high crime statistics.
All the cops i know are good dudes. I feel like most are. But i feel there are numerous systemic flaws that lead to what we are seeing all over the country.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
That and the fact that there are nearly 700,000 full-time police officers in the United States of which I believe a full 100% of them are indeed human. And with that quantity of humans put in an authority position over other humans you're bound to have some bad ones who do things they shouldn't.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
No doubt. The bad ones really impact things due to how these departments function too. Before you know it the whole department is doing all sorts of shady stuff.
Where i live i have one town where i know i will always have issues. Where I’ve had guns shoved in my face for no reason because they thought i made a furtive movement. The same department caught multiple times planting evidence on people. They haven’t changed ever. Yet the town next door I’ve never been pulled over in.
The problem is the accountability. We live in a violent society and there are very dangerous locations and cops end up in many dangerous situations where people get killed. 99 percent of the time, the result is unfortunate, but justifiable. Then there are some questionable ones, then even a few where you really scratch your head and think wtf. The problem is none of them ever get successfully prosecuted. They need to start making those bad ones accountable.PinkydaPimp said:
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Correct and that’s part of the systemic issues i was referring too. I do think once the culture of these departments Change such that it’s not taboo to speak out when your fellow officer some something bad it will be a start(though again often that something bad is encouraged). Instead it’s the opposite. Entire departments will go through great lengths to get their fellow officers off. The “good officers” literally forced to comply. This sort of behavior is not only the norm it’s encouraged.
And I’m not sure 99% of the killings are justifiable. Maybe to them(the officers). Maybe to you. But i think in a lot of these cases there are ways to better resolve the incident so that people don’t die. But to them they know they can shot first and figure it out later because that’s procedure. It’s “dangerous” so is that a gun? A comb? #### it I’ll kill the guy anyway since i may be in danger. So you have peoples lives dependent on some cops perception of the situation. Instead of a jury of their peers. To people watching on tv it’s fine. He looked dangerous so he probably deserved it.
Sadly there isn’t a cut and dry solution to this. But accountability i agree is a start. I won’t hold my breath however.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I’ll leave that up to your imagination - I don’t want to openly call the place out. It doesn’t even exist anymore.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
The guys I know are not that way at all. They are all actually really good guys and good family men as well. I am in a 40 man golf league. There are 5 cops in the league. 2 black cops from Detroit, one white cop from Detroit and 2 white State Troopers. The State Troopers don`t do nearly as much as the Detroit guys. Detroit guys from listening to them get more calls per shift than they can respond to. The don`t work downtown or by the stadiums but on the east side and by 6 mile Livernois area. I have known 2 of the guys forever and they wanted to be police to make a difference. The Detroit guys after seeing it is impossible all they do now is countdown the days to retirement and hope they don`t get killed. After listening to them for years you could not pay me enough to be a Detroit cop.BobbyLayne said:
A cop who quit wrote this job description of a policeman.
Drive in endless circles.
Deal with other people’s problems.
Wade in the depths of human depravity.
Baby-sit adult humans.
Take calls involving death and danger.
Make inappropriate jokes to deal with the constant negativity.
Drive fast with lights and sirens (really fun!!).
Deal with things most people would prefer not to (humans covered in human feces anyone?).
Try and help the best you can when and where you can.
I wrote this a few days ago to describe my former profession. It was off the top of the head. From the heart. It was how a cop four-weeks removed from the profession feels about his former job. It’s raw. And what you will see above is an accurate description of a patrol officer. At least it was for me.
READ: WHY POLICE OFFICERS DON’T FIT IN
Incredible Profession
Being a police officer is an incredible profession, post-job cynicism aside. I learned more about people and humanity than most will ever learn from a lifetime in “normal” jobs. (Possible exceptions would be paramedic, firefighter, ER staff in a major city. Those professions also get a strong dose of human depravity every day.) I even got to patch a few bullet holes (*wink-nod to you I700’s) and maybe change a few lives.
Getting Burned
But after a while, it does just become just a job. After a while, the rookie stars fade from your eyes. You get burned by suspects. You get burned by the people you are trying to help. You get burned by the criminal justice system. You get burned by your department. You get burned by the politicians in the DA’s office and on the City Council. Wanna know why cops are cynical? It is because they’ve been burned. A lot. By everyone.
So what happens when a really cool gig turns into just another job? Simple, you start focusing on all the negative crap that surrounds the job. And for someone who started policing in 2014, there was plenty to focus on. As a matter of fact, I think most of my cohort would agree that, as far as the attitude surrounding the profession of policing is concerned, 2014 was one hell of a bad year to start. There was Ferguson and Baltimore and we had plenty of our own drama in Austin. All of a sudden, I read the news and got a strong feeling that certain parts of our society felt that I was just a jack-booted thug who evil-laughs while finding ways to violate people’s civil rights. That’s a tough pill to swallow for someone who took on a job to be one of the good guys.
Commercial break: There IS such a thing as the “Ferguson effect.” Constantly bash on cops as an entire profession and you WILL see a thing called de-policing.
There are bad cops just as there are bad doctors, lawyers, and business executives (and politicians. Don’t forget politicians!). Bad cops should be ferreted out with the ferocity of a lion pouncing on a gazelle. But when you start making up stories and mask them as fact; when you intentionally agitate the mob and start forming lynch-parties in the absence of due-process; when you negatively frame an entire profession to further an agenda, you are going to create a situation where all of a sudden the personal risk to become or remain a cop ain’t worth the hourly wage and shiny badge. That is all. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.
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Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
My experience has been markedly different.BobbyLayne said:
Seems you people have no clue what cops deal with on a daily basis but LOVE to pile on when one dumb cop goes nuts. Read the guru's post. It's actually worse than that. I really don't know how anyone does that job. Dealing with the dumbest of the dumb for the whole shift, every shift.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
This is based on what? How would you have any idea to put a number on this? Oh wait...I know...
jonessed
Footballguy
Court results would be a good start. I don’t know what the percentage of shootings that are eventually determined to be justified is, but I suspect it’s a very high number.
McBokonon
Footballguy
I'm sure many are. This episode of More Perfect does describe how a Supreme Court decision that was expected to help victims of police brutality actually went the other way. It's a great listen, but they also give a transcript.
supermike80
Footballguy
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