parasaurolophus
Footballguy
These people are delusional. Black lives matter in Minneapolis is a complete joke.
The guy that says the officer should have done a wrestling move needs to be belly to belly suplexed.
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Another killing at the hands of the Police (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter In The Zone
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The guy that says the officer should have done a wrestling move needs to be belly to belly suplexed.
Yenrub
Footballguy
Lead investigator doesn't think it was a crime
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article235457107.html
An Texas ranger says the victim was a threat to the killer (fortunately the judge won't let the jury hear his opinion)
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/25/us/botham-jean-amber-guyger-murder-trial/index.html
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Ate you following this case? If yes, why is the prosecution bringing up that she was distracted by a phone call with her lover? That seemed odd to me when i read it.
Yenrub
Footballguy
Haven't been following it, I kind of figured it was an open and shut case, until a friend told me about the Ranger opinion yesterday. Now I'm like WTF! Guy is chilling in his apartment someone breaks in and all of a sudden the guy chilling in his apartment is the threat?
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Seems really odd that they went after a murder charge and then focused on saying she was distracted. Wtf?
NREC34
Footballguy
I think Amber was distracted by her married lover. Not a long shift. She texted him that day and said she was really horny.
I think she deserves something for doing it but probably not life.
I felt kind of bad for her listening to her 911 call. I know she didn’t mean to do it but it’s really messed her life up and she knew it too in that moment she made the call.
I think she deserves something for doing it but probably not life.
I felt kind of bad for her listening to her 911 call. I know she didn’t mean to do it but it’s really messed her life up and she knew it too in that moment she made the call.
Yenrub
Footballguy
NREC34
Footballguy
Yenrub
Footballguy
I didn’t say that you couldn’t, though I am curious as to why you would.
I usually don’t feel bad for people who shoot & kill innocent people who are doing absolutely nothing wrong but if you feel bad for her more power to you.
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parasaurolophus
Footballguy
This is a tough case. I don't like complete stupidity being excused in this world but does anybody really believe she had any bad intentions that evening? Well I mean outside of being horny and needing some fish from the company pier.
I do actually believe she walked into the wrong apartment by accident that night. I am not sure how the law works in dallas, are there are choices for the jury to downgrade. I have no idea how they think a murder charge is warranted. She should do time for being dumb and that stupidity leading to an innocent man being killed, but I am not sure how much and certainly not murder.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
This case also poses some interesting challenges, morality wise for me, because she is a cop. If this was a standard citizen that was carrying a gun, even legally, I would hold them more accountable for the fact that they had a gun. I am not a big fan of concealed carry, open carry, or obviously illegal carry so I tend to pass judgment on people carrying guns around. But then of course being a police officer should come with a higher duty of care so even though it excuses her having a gun, it means she should have exercised more care in using it. But then she was off duty, so should she be viewed as a standard gun toting citizen there? Not saying one way or the other, just laying out all the thoughts I have had regarding this case.
Yenrub
Footballguy
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NREC34
Footballguy
Her key wouldn’t have opened the door. I think maybe it hadn’t closed right or was unlocked.
NREC34
Footballguy
I think the fact that she was a cop gave her the mentality to kill. Definitely worked against her here and goes to show that one mental lapse can cost any of us dearly.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Yenrub
Footballguy
Doug B
Footballguy
Her initial statement about her entry was that when she attempted to put her key in the lock, the door swung open a few inches. Not sure if she reiterated that on the stand this week.
whoknew
Footballguy
NREC34
Footballguy
whoknew
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Finally read why the defense was using her text messages and booty calls. They used it to counter the original defense strategy of arguing she was exhausted from working a double shift. Her plans to go get some mclovin after she showered basically shut that whole thing down.
NREC34
Footballguy
Man, I feel bad for her. She made a terrible mistake and going to pay dearly for it. Guess she’ll see what the other side looks like. She knew it too when she was calling 911. Yeah hon, your job is history and maybe your life. Guess that advice people give about not dating in the office would’ve helped her out here.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Obviously a terrible tragedy, but what I don't understand is the immediate impulse to pull out a gun and shoot. Admittedly I have not followed this case but if the man is sitting on his couch, I have to assume he was in a posture that posed no threat. The woman comes home, sees a man on her couch and the first instinct is to shoot before she can even realize its not her home?
I don't feel all that bad for her.
I don't feel all that bad for her.
Yenrub
Footballguy
After reading @PinkydaPimp post and finding out about Texas’ ‘mistake of fact’ law I’m actually surprised that they found her guilty
jonessed
Footballguy
Read that the guy was unarmed and defenseless when he was shot. Screw her.
Murder seemed harsh for what was obviously an accident, but when you add in his initial reactions before she shot him murder makes sense.
She made a long string of terrible decisions.
timschochet
Footballguy
I have a problem with this verdict.
She is guilty of a crime. She deserves prison time IMO. But I don’t know what that crime should be, and I’m pretty sure it shouldn’t be murder. She was mistaken. She wasn’t trying to murder somebody. I think intent is a big factor. This seems wrong.
She is guilty of a crime. She deserves prison time IMO. But I don’t know what that crime should be, and I’m pretty sure it shouldn’t be murder. She was mistaken. She wasn’t trying to murder somebody. I think intent is a big factor. This seems wrong.
GROOT
Footballguy
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PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Yes, i am very surprised as well. TBH im surprised it wasnt manslaughter. I havent watched the trial so i dont know the details but i would have to assume something very damning came out. Otherwise, Manslaughter does seem to fit. I need to read a little more about it. Im very curious to hear how the jurors took it. I believe though that i did read she could have helped more with CPR and didnt. Instead tried to cover up a bit and call her people to help. That might sway me. If i had heard that she was bias that might as well or that she did not reasonably do what she could to de-escalte.
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Redwes25
Footballguy
How is this not second degree murder. It is not premediated but she intentionally shot him which caused his death. Even if you want to say that wasn't far enough her conduct was reckless which is usually also murder (though I am not a TX attorney). In addition, she was likely committing another crime at the time which is criminal tresspass so you could be dealing with the felony murder rules but that is just a guess. Even in the best case view of her actions were manslaughter.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
I don’t think Texas has “second degree murder.” It has murder, and the type of murder in this case is either a first or a second degree felony. Recklessly causing the death of another in a criminal violation is second. Intentionally killing or intentionally acting in such a way as to cause serious bodily harm that results in death is a first degree felony.
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Yes it was a mistake, but to say it was not murder not sure I can go that far. She has more training than the average person on being able to handle herself. She went into the wrong apartment, and she should of been aware of her surroundings. Her first reaction was to go for her gun and not to hear the homeowner out or back out of the situation when all evidence shows this was not a violent situation at all.
timschochet
Footballguy
I guess I might be OK with second degree murder as I understand the term. Thanks for the clarification.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Yeah, it’s either “capital murder” or “murder” in Texas. Capital gets you the needle. She got the next one.
timschochet
Footballguy
I would like it if the news media makes it as clear as you have. To a layman like myself, conviction of murder seems like a harsh sentence.
McJose
Footballguy
Tom Skerritt
Footballguy
They HAD TO convict her. In her own testimony she said that she intended to kill Botham Jean.
It’s also possible that she gets recommended only the minimum sentence... 5 yrs I think. And to me, that is a reasonable sentence.
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PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
I think its relevant to some of the potential underlying issues surrounding this topic. For example if someone thinks that its systemic and now this issue that makes officers so quick to pull the trigger even in situations like this, its very relevant. Even She said that they are taught to respond like this. Maybe there is an issue with what is being taught?
I can see that - and I think it is very worthwhile to review the training police officers get to handle confrontations with suspects.I think its relevant to some of the potential underlying issues surrounding this topic. For example if someone thinks that its systemic and now this issue that makes officers so quick to pull the trigger even in situations like this, its very relevant. Even She said that they are taught to respond like this. Maybe there is an issue with what is being taught?
I just don't get the sense that this was anything like that - but I have not really followed the facts here, beyond the basics - she claims to be in her apartment and shoots an intruder. My understanding is this was a shoot first - ask questions later situation. But, I think this still falls under the guise of a civilian shooting another civilian, rather than a police officer shooting someone in her capacity as a police officer.
That's what boggles my mind about it all. Even if she truly thought it was her apartment and she came across some guy in it, her immediate reaction is to shoot him dead? Aside from eating ice cream, it's not like he was charging her, right? I assume lights were on in the apartment?I think its relevant to some of the potential underlying issues surrounding this topic. For example if someone thinks that its systemic and now this issue that makes officers so quick to pull the trigger even in situations like this, its very relevant. Even She said that they are taught to respond like this. Maybe there is an issue with what is being taught?
The Commish
Footballguy
I haven't followed this case all that closely, but it did come up on local news last night. I thought I heard her say that when she was shooting, she was shooting to kill. What do you mean by intent here?
The Tick
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
NREC34
Footballguy
I am curious - do you think she was not mistaken - i.e. she knew she was in someone else's apartment, and just killed the guy? Or, do you think there were circumstances that she should have realized she was in the wrong apartment?
I have not seen much on this, or heard any of the testimony, but my thoughts are that she was mistaken - but that there were enough clues that she should have seen where she was - thus her mistake was not reasonable.
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