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Another killing at the hands of the Police

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Just now, Ilov80s said:

When we see officers who disregard professionalism and ethics get away it repeatedly, it’s no wonder some cops act like they are untouchable. We need to have firm consequences for those caught violating the code of conduct to send a clear message to all other officers and those hoping to become officers. 

You're going to also have to fire any officer that witnesses something like this and fails to report it.

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I would say this us unbelievable but unfortunately this is standard procedure in most cases. No dash cam. No body cam. Lied on the report. Nothing new. Typical daily police work. 

I’ve known dozens of cops at local, city & state levels. Power tripping is part of the appeal for them, and most white cops IME are racists af.

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10 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

I would say this us unbelievable but unfortunately this is standard procedure in most cases. No dash cam. No body cam. Lied on the report. Nothing new. Typical daily police work. 

I’ve known dozens of cops at local, city & state levels. Power tripping is part of the appeal for them, and most white cops IME are racists af.

I won’t fully go there but I’ve known 3 officers pretty well. My uncle is a retired cop and a great guy. He’s half Japanese so he dealt with a lot of racism himself but he was an honest and well meaning officer. The other 2 were “friends” from high school/college and were just abhorrent racist aggressive hateful #######s. 

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11 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I won’t fully go there but I’ve known 3 officers pretty well. My uncle is a retired cop and a great guy. He’s half Japanese so he dealt with a lot of racism himself but he was an honest and well meaning officer. The other 2 were “friends” from high school/college and were just abhorrent racist aggressive hateful #######s. 

I was close friends with a guy in my mid 20’s who later went on to be a cop and ultimately a Lieutenant in the local police force. Played years of flag football and YMCA B-ball with him and my wife and I socialized with he and his GF a lot. Guy constantly got into fights in sports, to the point where players on other teams all knew him and went after him. He was easily provoked and also very aggressive. I lost touch with him years later but he was in the local media a lot and always seemed to be having trouble with the minority population around here, excessive use of force issues if I recall. Don’t really recall him being explicitly racist though. Just that hyper-aggression all the time.

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1 minute ago, Ranethe said:

I was close friends with a guy in my mid 20’s who later went on to be a cop and ultimately a Lieutenant in the local police force. Played years of flag football and YMCA B-ball with him and my wife and I socialized with he and his GF a lot. Guy constantly got into fights in sports, to the point where players on other teams all knew him and went after him. He was easily provoked and also very aggressive. I lost touch with him years later but he was in the local media a lot and always seemed to be having trouble with the minority population around here, excessive use of force issues if I recall. Don’t really recall him being explicitly racist though. Just that hyper-aggression all the time.

One of the guys I knew also worked as a bouncer a bar/night club that I frequented in my early 20s. He is a massive man and he used every form of intimidation possible to try and stop non-whites from getting it. He and the place itself were pretty open about that. He also would card me and give me crap even though we had always been on friendly terms and he knew I was 21. 

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15 minutes ago, Ranethe said:
32 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I won’t fully go there but I’ve known 3 officers pretty well. My uncle is a retired cop and a great guy. He’s half Japanese so he dealt with a lot of racism himself but he was an honest and well meaning officer. The other 2 were “friends” from high school/college and were just abhorrent racist aggressive hateful #######s. 

I was close friends with a guy in my mid 20’s who later went on to be a cop and ultimately a Lieutenant in the local police force. Played years of flag football and YMCA B-ball with him and my wife and I socialized with he and his GF a lot. Guy constantly got into fights in sports, to the point where players on other teams all knew him and went after him. He was easily provoked and also very aggressive. I lost touch with him years later but he was in the local media a lot and always seemed to be having trouble with the minority population around here, excessive use of force issues if I recall. Don’t really recall him being explicitly racist though. Just that hyper-aggression all the time.

I’m painting with a broad brush, & it’s obviously not true of everyone in LE. But it definitely is true the profession attracts a certain type of #######.

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12 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

I’m painting with a broad brush, & it’s obviously not true of everyone in LE. But it definitely is true the profession attracts a certain type of #######.

Same and again, my uncle is a laid back easy going guy who served for 30+ hears in the force. 

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Posted (edited)

On Facebook I am friends with two cops that I have known since elementary school, one was essentially the school bully (thought I got along with him), while the other was generally nice though they were both exceptionally dumb. The first guy was always conservative, but now is full blown OAN/white supremacist adjacent stuff/talking about cracking heads with other cops while living out in the middle of safe suburbs. He does not use his real name as a facebook handle. I guess the second might be an ok cop? He does not post much but I am in FF leagues with his dad. They need ways to screen out people that are in it for the power, as well as severely punish people that misuse their role in society. Anything that happens with your camera off should be automatically considered unjustified by default. Someone getting shot with the camera off should automatically be a murder charge. Don't want to get arrested? Leave the camera on then. They should also stop preferentially hiring vets, civilian law enforcement and occupying hostile territory are not overlapping skill sets. They need to be constantly reminded they are civilians, feels like most cops like to pretend they are special forces or whatever patrolling the walmart parking lot with military surplus gear.

Edited by huthut

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Same and again, my uncle is a laid back easy going guy who served for 30+ hears in the force. 

Youngish (30) guy in my church is an FBI agent, and just an all around great guy. Def are good cops out there. But looking at it across the spectrum, in totality, it seems like a profession which attracts guys with jerky personalities and a particularly narrow worldview.

Edited by BobbyLayne
typo

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

Youngish (30) guy in my church is an FBI agent, and just an all around great guy. Def are good cops out there. But looking at it across the spectrum, in totality, it seems like a profession which attracts guys with jerky personalities and a particularly narrow worldview.

I also have a neighbor who is an FBI agent and seems like a nice guy. Although I think he mostly just does computer work looking at data, records, etc.  He's not out in the field chasing people with guns,. Also I remember another guy from school who has always been a great guy was in the Border Patrol and now ATF I think. He was always really mild mannered and well intentioned. 

Edited by Ilov80s

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29 minutes ago, BobbyLayne said:

Youngish (30) guy in my church is an FBI agent, and just an all around great guy. Def are good cops out there. But looking at it across the spectrum, in totality, it seems like a profession which attracts guys with jerky personalities and a particularly narrow worldview.

I’ve had several encounters with police over the years and I have to say in all but one I was treated very well, respectfully and in multiple cases was let go with just warnings (it endlessly annoys my wife). In one encounter, when I was young and stupid, I should have got a DWI. The cop was a huge intimidating State trooper too, I was shaking like a leaf and certain my life was ruined. I’ve been let off with warnings for speeding several times over the years as well. 

I had one negative encounter, which to this day I still don’t understand. I was driving in town, on my way to the local library, and turned in front of a cop. Not “turned in front of” as in “cut off”. I had seen him and he was far away, it was a routine turn anyone would have made. I got out of my vehicle-completely oblivious that anything was up-and this cop came screaming into the parking lot literally right in front of me as I was getting out and began screaming and berating me. I just did what we have to do-ate a large dose of humble pie and apologized for ...who knows what. The cop I guess felt I didn’t yield to him. He left after getting his rant on with no further issues. 

But I recognize I have a specific advantage in dealing with LE that a lot of other people don’t have.

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Imo the issues that we see is not necessarily the cops and more the system they work in.  When these otherwise good folks are forced to hit their numbers and show no mercy or be ridiculed or never promoted it sets up this toxic culture that leads to a lot of the issues we see.  

 

Add to that the the fact that you often have cops policing communities they aren’t a part of.  And when you don’t know the community or may go into it already fearful of that community then it can lead to many issues.  If i pull over the guy i see in the grocery store all the time or the guy whose kid goes to my daycare i may be more prone to de-escalate than if i just know that the community has high crime statistics.  

All the cops i know are good dudes.  I feel like most are.  But i feel there are numerous systemic flaws that lead to what we are seeing all over the country.

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6 minutes ago, PinkydaPimp said:

All the cops i know are good dudes.  I feel like most are.  But i feel there are numerous systemic flaws that lead to what we are seeing all over the country.

That and the fact that there are nearly 700,000 full-time police officers in the United States of which I believe a full 100% of them are indeed human. And with that quantity of humans put in an authority position over other humans you're bound to have some bad ones who do things they shouldn't.

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And then 20x more kind of bad ones who don't so bad things themselves but cover up for those that do?

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3 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

That and the fact that there are nearly 700,000 full-time police officers in the United States of which I believe a full 100% of them are indeed human. And with that quantity of humans put in an authority position over other humans you're bound to have some bad ones who do things they shouldn't.

No doubt. The bad ones really impact things due to how these departments function too.  Before you know it the whole department is doing all sorts of shady stuff.  

Where i live i have one town where i know i will always have issues.  Where I’ve had guns shoved in my face for no reason because they thought i made a furtive movement.  The same department caught multiple times planting evidence on people.  They haven’t changed ever.  Yet the town next door I’ve never been pulled over in.  🤔

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7 hours ago, PinkydaPimp said:

Imo the issues that we see is not necessarily the cops and more the system they work in.  When these otherwise good folks are forced to hit their numbers and show no mercy or be ridiculed or never promoted it sets up this toxic culture that leads to a lot of the issues we see.  

 

Add to that the the fact that you often have cops policing communities they aren’t a part of.  And when you don’t know the community or may go into it already fearful of that community then it can lead to many issues.  If i pull over the guy i see in the grocery store all the time or the guy whose kid goes to my daycare i may be more prone to de-escalate than if i just know that the community has high crime statistics.  

All the cops i know are good dudes.  I feel like most are.  But i feel there are numerous systemic flaws that lead to what we are seeing all over the country.

The problem is the accountability.  We live in a violent society and there are very dangerous locations and cops end up in many dangerous situations where people get killed.  99 percent of the time, the result is unfortunate, but justifiable.  Then there are some questionable ones, then even a few where you really scratch your head and think wtf.  The problem is none of them ever get successfully prosecuted.  They need to start making those bad ones accountable.  

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7 hours ago, jon_mx said:

The problem is the accountability.  We live in a violent society and there are very dangerous locations and cops end up in many dangerous situations where people get killed.  99 percent of the time, the result is unfortunate, but justifiable.  Then there are some questionable ones, then even a few where you really scratch your head and think wtf.  The problem is none of them ever get successfully prosecuted.  They need to start making those bad ones accountable.  

Correct and that’s part of the systemic issues i was referring too.  I do think once the culture of these departments Change such that it’s not taboo to speak out when your fellow officer some something bad it will be a start(though again often that something bad is encouraged).  Instead it’s the opposite.  Entire departments will go through great lengths to get their fellow officers off. The “good officers” literally forced to comply.  This sort of behavior is not only the norm it’s encouraged.  

 

And I’m not sure 99% of the killings are justifiable.  Maybe to them(the officers). Maybe to you. But i think in a lot of these cases there are ways to better resolve the incident so that people don’t die.  But to them they know they can shot first and figure it out later because that’s procedure.     It’s “dangerous” so is that a gun?  A comb?  #### it I’ll kill the guy anyway since i may be in danger.  So you have peoples lives dependent on some cops perception of the situation.  Instead of a jury of their peers.  To people watching on tv it’s fine.  He looked dangerous so he probably deserved it.

Sadly there isn’t a cut and dry solution to this.  But accountability i agree is a start.  I won’t hold my breath however.

 

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18 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

One of the guys I knew also worked as a bouncer a bar/night club that I frequented in my early 20s. He is a massive man and he used every form of intimidation possible to try and stop non-whites from getting it. He and the place itself were pretty open about that. He also would card me and give me crap even though we had always been on friendly terms and he knew I was 21. 

What bar?

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4 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

What bar?

I’ll leave that up to your imagination - I don’t want to openly call the place out. It doesn’t even exist anymore.

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, BobbyLayne said:

I’m painting with a broad brush, & it’s obviously not true of everyone in LE. But it definitely is true the profession attracts a certain type of #######.

The guys I know are not that way at all. They are all actually really good guys and good family men as well.  I am in a 40 man golf league.  There are 5 cops in the league.  2 black cops from Detroit, one white cop from Detroit and 2 white State Troopers. The State Troopers don`t do nearly as much as the Detroit guys. Detroit guys from listening to them get more calls per shift than they can respond to.  The don`t work downtown or by the stadiums but on the east side and by 6 mile Livernois area. I have known 2 of the guys forever and they wanted to be police to make a difference.   The Detroit guys after seeing it is impossible all they do now is countdown the days to retirement and hope they don`t get killed. After listening to them for years you could not pay me enough to be a Detroit cop.

A cop who quit wrote this job description of a policeman.

Drive in endless circles.

Deal with other people’s problems.

Wade in the depths of human depravity.

Baby-sit adult humans.

Take  calls involving death and danger.

Make inappropriate jokes to deal with the constant negativity.

Drive fast with lights and sirens (really fun!!).

Deal with things most people would prefer not to (humans covered in human feces anyone?).

Try and help the best you can when and where you can.

I wrote this a few days ago to describe my former profession. It was off the top of the head. From the heart. It was how a cop four-weeks removed from the profession feels about his former job. It’s raw. And what you will see above is an accurate description of a patrol officer. At least it was for me.

READ: WHY POLICE OFFICERS DON’T FIT IN

Incredible Profession

Being a police officer is an incredible profession, post-job cynicism aside. I learned more about people and humanity than most will ever learn from a lifetime in “normal” jobs. (Possible exceptions would be paramedic, firefighter, ER staff in a major city. Those professions also get a strong dose of human depravity every day.) I even got to patch a few bullet holes (*wink-nod to you I700’s) and maybe change a few lives.

Getting Burned

But after a while, it does just become just a job. After a while, the rookie stars fade from your eyes. You get burned by suspects. You get burned by the people you are trying to help. You get burned by the criminal justice system. You get burned by your department. You get burned by the politicians in the DA’s office and on the City Council. Wanna know why cops are cynical? It is because they’ve been burned. A lot. By everyone.

So what happens when a really cool gig turns into just another job? Simple, you start focusing on all the negative crap that surrounds the job. And for someone who started policing in 2014, there was plenty to focus on. As a matter of fact, I think most of my cohort would agree that, as far as the attitude surrounding the profession of policing is concerned, 2014 was one hell of a bad year to start. There was Ferguson and Baltimore and we had plenty of our own drama in Austin. All of a sudden, I read the news and got a strong feeling that certain parts of our society felt that I was just a jack-booted thug who evil-laughs while finding ways to violate people’s civil rights. That’s a tough pill to swallow for someone who took on a job to be one of the good guys.

 

Commercial break: There IS such a thing as the “Ferguson effect.” Constantly bash on cops as an entire profession and you WILL see a thing called de-policing.

There are bad cops just as there are bad doctors, lawyers, and business executives (and politicians. Don’t forget politicians!). Bad cops should be ferreted out with the ferocity of a lion pouncing on a gazelle. But when you start making up stories and mask them as fact; when you intentionally agitate the mob and start forming lynch-parties in the absence of due-process; when you negatively frame an entire profession to further an agenda, you are going to create a situation where all of a sudden the personal risk to become or remain a cop ain’t worth the hourly wage and shiny badge. That is all. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

Edited by Da Guru
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4 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I’ll leave that up to your imagination - I don’t want to openly call the place out. It doesn’t even exist anymore.

What city I will guess.

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19 hours ago, BobbyLayne said:

I would say this us unbelievable but unfortunately this is standard procedure in most cases. No dash cam. No body cam. Lied on the report. Nothing new. Typical daily police work. 

I’ve known dozens of cops at local, city & state levels. Power tripping is part of the appeal for them, and most white cops IME are racists af.

My experience has been markedly different. 

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Seems you people have no clue what cops deal with on a daily basis but LOVE to pile on when one dumb cop goes nuts. Read the guru's post. It's actually worse than that. I really don't know how anyone does that job. Dealing with the dumbest of the dumb for the whole shift, every shift.

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I was in an MP reserve unit way back in the 90s. A LOT of cops, as you can imagine. I’d say 3/4 of those in law enforcement were complete and utter power tripping eh-holes. 

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21 hours ago, PinkydaPimp said:

Imo the issues that we see is not necessarily the cops and more the system they work in.  When these otherwise good folks are forced to hit their numbers and show no mercy or be ridiculed or never promoted it sets up this toxic culture that leads to a lot of the issues we see.  

 

Add to that the the fact that you often have cops policing communities they aren’t a part of.  And when you don’t know the community or may go into it already fearful of that community then it can lead to many issues.  If i pull over the guy i see in the grocery store all the time or the guy whose kid goes to my daycare i may be more prone to de-escalate than if i just know that the community has high crime statistics.  

All the cops i know are good dudes.  I feel like most are.  But i feel there are numerous systemic flaws that lead to what we are seeing all over the country.

Good post- the biggest issues are absolutely systematic and in a lot of ways are all tied into the general root problems this country has. 

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14 hours ago, jon_mx said:

The problem is the accountability.  We live in a violent society and there are very dangerous locations and cops end up in many dangerous situations where people get killed.  99 percent of the time, the result is unfortunate, but justifiable.  

This is based on what?  How would you have any idea to put a number on this?   Oh wait...I know...

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15 minutes ago, urbanhack said:

This is based on what?  How would you have any idea to put a number on this?   Oh wait...I know...

Court results would be a good start.  I don’t know what the percentage of shootings that are eventually determined to be justified is, but I suspect it’s a very high number.

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30 minutes ago, jonessed said:

Court results would be a good start.  I don’t know what the percentage of shootings that are eventually determined to be justified is, but I suspect it’s a very high number.

I'm sure many are. This episode of More Perfect does describe how a Supreme Court decision that was expected to help victims of police brutality actually went the other way. It's a great listen, but they also give a transcript. 

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5 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

I’ll leave that up to your imagination - I don’t want to openly call the place out. It doesn’t even exist anymore.

Atlantis?????

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Just now, supermike80 said:

Atlantis?????

No not a strip club lol

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4 hours ago, Max Power said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/police-officer-shot-in-ambush-had-no-chance-of-survival/ar-AADflro?ocid=spartandhp

Stories like this are why some officers might be quick to pull their service weapon.  

 

Domestic violence calls are the most dangerous calls for police.  Always have been, probably always will be.  Tragic every time and another very good reason domestic violence perpetrators should not be allowed to have guns. 

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18 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Domestic violence calls are the most dangerous calls for police.  Always have been, probably always will be.  Tragic every time and another very good reason domestic violence perpetrators should not be allowed to have guns. 

Am I reading it wrong or was this not actually a domestic abuse call? It’s actually hard from the article to determine exactly what was going on. Were they helping his gf clear out the garage or were they looking to serve a bench warrant? 

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2 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Am I reading it wrong or was this not actually a domestic abuse call? It’s actually hard from the article to determine exactly what was going on. Were they helping his gf clear out the garage or were they looking to serve a bench warrant? 

Both were happening, I think the officer who was shot was part of the DV order to help this woman get her belongings. 

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2 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Both were happening, I think the officer who was shot was part of the DV order to help this woman get her belongings. 

Ok, yeah I can see that. It’s so sad to lose that young woman and such a POS whose apparently been abusing women all his life.

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8 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

Domestic violence calls are the most dangerous calls for police.  Always have been, probably always will be.  Tragic every time and another very good reason domestic violence perpetrators should not be allowed to have guns. 

Agree. 

Should not be allowed to have alcohol either.

Quote

According to the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence, the Bureau of Justice Statistics shows that two-thirds of victims of spousal violence report that the perpetrator had been drinking. In a global study of intimate partner violence, the odds were higher worldwide in relationships where one or both partners had problems with alcohol, compared to relationships where neither of them did.

 

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9 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

Now see how many of the ones with booze but no guns resulted in police deaths. 

:confused:

Sorry, I got in the way of your agenda. I forgot, some people here are not for making things better. 

Carry on. 

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On ‎6‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 9:03 AM, Snorkelson said:

I think there will be a time where we look back on the drinking culture and the way it’s portrayed in tvs and movies like we do smoking. 

This has already become a reality for the military.  The military historically has been a very heavy alcohol fueled culture.  Many customs and traditions have alcohol related origins.  Command events generally involve a couple kegs. 

Over the years I've seen it dialed back a lot.  I think we've finally realized that we're creating and enabling too many alcohol related incidents and increase the risk of alcoholism.  We still have plenty of the old guard who try to keep some of these traditions alive, but times have really changed. 

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Quote

 

A police officer in Illinois was shot and killed while responding to a call for help in a rural community on Tuesday, according to officials.

Illinois State Police said in a news release that 39-year-old Fulton County Sheriff’s Deputy Troy Chisum had responded to a battery and disturbance call around 2 p.m. in Avon, located about 45 miles west of Peoria.

While responding to the scene, officials said that "multiple shots were fired," and Chisum was shot and killed.

“On behalf of the Fulton County Sheriff’s Office, I would like to extend our deepest condolences to the family and friends of Deputy Chisum," Fulton County Sheriff Jeff Standard said in a statement. "Deputy Chisum dedicated his life to the service of his community. His legacy and sacrifice will forever be remembered.”

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/illinois-police-officer-shot-killed-while-responding-to-a-battery-and-disturbance-call

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Not a police killing, but involves police misconduct and the deliberate framing of a situation as far more dangerous than a reasonable person would perceive it:

Officer Pulls Gun on Student Picking Up Trash Outside of Dorm Building

From the officer's body cam, we see him describe the black student's trash grabber as "some kind of a blunt object" over his radio call for support. The officer then continues to only refer to the trash grabber as a "weapon" and "an object" - even if we were to be generous and assume that this officer is incredibly sheltered and has never encountered a trash grabber or anything similar before, the resident uses the trash grabber to pick up and place trash into his bucket many times throughout the video. 

Despite the entire incident being predicated on the fact that the officer would not take the word (or offered college ID) of this man that he was a resident and was working, it is notable that the officer does not later question an older white man who appears on scene and announces himself to be "Director of Safety and Facilites" for the college. He asks for not proof of this white man's identity or association with the college.

The officer resigned, but will be paid through early 2020. A review of the incident by the police determined there was no racial profiling and no need to change any policies. 

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Posted (edited)

BS

Cop fired in unarmed shooting reinstated, gets retirement. I’ll link the article if I can find it again, it was in my news feed. The guy was a cop for a few years, killed an unarmed man and was dismissed, now reinstated and filing for medical retirement so he can get about $2500/month. 

Edited by Snorkelson

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4 hours ago, Snorkelson said:

BS

Cop fired in unarmed shooting reinstated, gets retirement. I’ll link the article if I can find it again, it was in my news feed. The guy was a cop for a few years, killed an unarmed man and was dismissed, now reinstated and filing for medical retirement so he can get about $2500/month. 

This is the officer who shot the guy who was on his knees in the hallway of a hotel. I remember that video, I'm just a little surprised the officer was acquitted

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5 hours ago, rockaction said:

Florida cop found planting meth on 52 individuals, one lost their son/daughter, according to the WaPo.

Nice guy, nice work.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/11/us/florida-deputy-arrested-planting-drugs-charges/index.html

Hope this guy goes away for a very long time and I hope his victims that are still alive are able to get their lives back together

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5 hours ago, Snorkelson said:

BS

Cop fired in unarmed shooting reinstated, gets retirement. I’ll link the article if I can find it again, it was in my news feed. The guy was a cop for a few years, killed an unarmed man and was dismissed, now reinstated and filing for medical retirement so he can get about $2500/month. 

https://reason.com/2019/07/11/this-cop-is-getting-2500-a-month-because-killing-an-unarmed-man-in-a-hotel-hallway-gave-him-ptsd/

Philip Brailsford.  Says he got PTSD from murdering Daniel Shaver.  Complete filth.  

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