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Another killing at the hands of the Police (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter In The Zone
- Start date
HellToupee
Footballguy
mcintyre1
Footballguy
There's also video floating around of the police presence at Derek Chauvin's house out in the burbs -- there were probably ~100 riot geared officers standing out front. I understand that they were there to prevent violence, but given what else happened in the city last night that's a pretty egregious waste of resources to defend a man who should be in jail right now.
squistion
Footballguy
Yamiche Alcindor @Yamiche 3m3 minutes ago
Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey says last night's violent protests are a reflection of the reality the black community has faced and 400 years of inequality. He says to ignore it would be to ignore the "values we all claim to have."
Minneapolis Mayor @Jacob_Frey: "We need to be working with community to sort through those set of action steps."
He says the city needs not have an "ignorant peace" but an "awaken" one & that work is about "protecting community" & the infrastructure needed during a pandemic.
https://twitter.com/Yamiche/status/1266047497266499590
Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey says last night's violent protests are a reflection of the reality the black community has faced and 400 years of inequality. He says to ignore it would be to ignore the "values we all claim to have."
Minneapolis Mayor @Jacob_Frey: "We need to be working with community to sort through those set of action steps."
He says the city needs not have an "ignorant peace" but an "awaken" one & that work is about "protecting community" & the infrastructure needed during a pandemic.
https://twitter.com/Yamiche/status/1266047497266499590
Witz
Footballguy
Not saying there is any grey area (there isn’t I’m mine and almost everyone else’s opinions). No way it takes 10 months for an arrest but can you imagine the uproar if procedure wasn’t followed and they got off on a technicality?
I’m not so much thinking about the police union but rather the police that are assigned to investigate this particular crime.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Shutting down a freeway with people commuting to and from work isn't going to gain their sympathy, ever.
(Commuter going to work, now stuck in traffic for 3 hours and furious, calls boss who is furious and explains, calls customer who is furious and explains) - a protest has then lost numerous sympathizers from this one individual.
So, putting protests in peoples' faces and inconveniencing the hell out of them isn't going to work, you can't rationalize burning #### down in response. These things will never go anywhere due to insanely flawed logic like this.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Hey Jacob. I don't know if you know this but...YOU'RE THE GD MAYOR! This is YOUR job.
It's like the fire chief standing around a four alarmer saying, "Hey, uh, isn't someone gong to put that out?"
Doug B
Footballguy
Dunno ... I didn't think union procedures necessarily carried legal weight.
IOW, I had thought that for a particularly heinous and well-documented capital crime ... a judge (or someone up high) could essentially render union procedures moot by fiat.
Again, the scenario of a cop shooting up the station house. I know it's not a direct comparable for many reasons ... just making the point that there scenarios do exist in which the union would almost certainly stand down immediately. Floyd's murder, IMHO, should be one of those scenarios as well.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Doug B
Footballguy
Your guess is as good as anyone's.
Another scenario: a policeman assassinates a public figure with Secret Service protection. Are local cops and union reps going to rush the scene to prevent the Secret Service from apprehending the cop?
Witz
Footballguy
Sorry - I think we are talking about two different things. I was not talking about unions or union procedures. I was talking about the criminal investigative procedures performed in advance of an arrest.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Harmonious racial paradise?
There are places that are extremely diverse and harmonious. Where i live is about as diverse as you can get socioeconomically, racially, religiously, etc. When i was in high school everyone hung out with everyone. I had friends whose families were on public assistance and friends whose families were millionaires. Thats not to say that there were zero issues. But there were much less than when i left and went elsewhere for college. Hell there were more issues when i went to the town next door which was known for heavy police profiling, fudging/planting evidence and such. Learned that the hard way having guns pulled on me for zero reason and then when my parents took me in to complain the officers lied about about me not signaling.
Ultimately, i dont think saying it never will is true, or at least i hope not(though people are trying to ensure it doesnt happen). Because i feel its one of the only organic ways to resolve these issues(unconscious, systemic and covert racism/discrimination). I didnt fear cops in my town. Hell i knew a number of them and they were good people. They live in the community. You don't often get these insane reactions when your pulling over a guy you know, have associated with, kids are in the same class or day care. Thats what we need to work towards. Will that happen? I think it can. But it will take a while and also take removing some of the systemic racism that are roadblocks towards doing this as you have good cops in bad presincts where they are forced to do things they may not want to do and not tell someone when they see something wrong. These are the root causes and if they arent addressed then nothing will change.
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mcintyre1
Footballguy
They don't want your sympathy. They want change.
Purely peaceful protest does almost nothing, and never really has IMO. America was birthed through violence. You have a weekend and 8 hour work days because a bunch workers fought, bled, and died to earn it as a concession from the powerful.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
So how would you recommend the protests happen ina fashion that you approve of because every single time no matter what someone says "oh thats not the way you protest." An inconvenience getting to work you can rectify. Years of oppression and fear of you, your family, your kids being shot by the police is a bit more urgent of a concern. So one way or another the protest will happen. But the goal is not to make it polite for your convenience. Its to make a point. Dont like it, join the protest to help get some change because otherwise you are part of the problem!
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Amused to Death
Footballguy
A small group of people tried a very peaceful protest and Donald Trump called them sons of #####es.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Few things...he was found guilty I believe of 3rd degree murder in what, while bad, was an accidental killing. To be found guilty...he was actually arrested and tried for his actions.
These 4 officers were not snuck up on, were not startled, did not just get spooked and fire upon an unknown person...they quite clearly murdered the man and then there was again delay in action and will still be more delay in action.
The 2 situations are so very different...bringing up the other is just, as usual, a deflection to try to play what about...stop...that other case has zero relevance to this and you know it.
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squistion
Footballguy
Not only that, but people kept saying about Kaep (in the Kaep threads) that "This is not the appropriate time or place to protest" and that he should do it in front of a police station, which of course, no one would have paid any attention to, or no more than would any peaceful protest in front of a business or government entity (which don't even always make the local news).
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Bucsfan5493
Footballguy
Not only Donald Trump. A large portion of the country were against taking a knee as well. Granted, this was back in 2017 but it shows that only ~30% of white Americans supported Kaepernick taking a knee.
So yes, peaceful protests were attempted and it got plenty of backlash. I don't think looting is the right answer to all of this, but what is?
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
What? If Kaep did it in front of many police stations it would get way more attention. You have to be in the streets to make actual change. The NA protest albeit with good intentions lost the real message right away. Nobody even talked about the why? Only talked about it being disrespectful.
Grass roots, out working in the streets actually makes a difference. But of course that is much more difficult and much more work.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
when its seen as white on black violence, there is often looting , would you agree ?
and its allowed - to try and stop it would be seen as more violence (and would require more violence), would you agree ?
so its allowed with some control - basically let the people burn down their own neighborhoods. my point was when was the last time a white skinned person was murdered and violent looting protests happened ?
while nobody agrees with looting and violent protests, its expected and allowed to some degree - and I don't get that, i don't :(
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Oh I certainly understand that. But it was the president of the United States calling peaceful protesters sons of #####es. Just out of curiosity, has he called Chauvin a son of a ##### yet?
It seems the message being sent by some is please don't protest where it will upset white people.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
No, he would have gotten little, if any attention at all. He got more publicity in one game for quietly taking a knee than he would have if held daily protest in front of a 1000 police stations across the country for a year.
If Rosa Parks, instead of refusing to move to the back of the bus, had held a picket sign in front of the Bus Transit offices, would that have had the end result in desegregating the bus lines? I seriously doubt it and if she had done that, no one would know who she is today.
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Amused to Death
Footballguy
I would characterize it as sometimes. The looting makes the news and grabs the headlines. I believe most of these white-cop-kills-unarmed-black-man do not trigger widespread looting.
I believe the police stand down when it becomes too large to control; trying to avoid further loss of life and violence.
I don't know when an incident of violence and looting occurred after a white person was murdered. I do know white people, throughout history, have not been persecuted nearly as much as black people nor to the extent. Not speaking for any group of people, just my opinion.
And you could have ended your post at "nobody agrees with looting and violent protests".
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
True...which is why there are more protests and anger...because what is quite clearly worse than the other case, the officers will quite possibly see the same or less punishment.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I would certainly hope at least Chauvin is charged with 1st degree and faces life in prison (or worse). He knelt there, with hands in pockets, and watched a man die. It wasn't a quick reaction or taken by surprise. He kept the pressure on until he felt the life run out of a man.
Lock him away. Or fry him. I couldn't care less.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Rosedale Mall just announced they're shutting down because the protest is moving towards there. Guess where I just arrived at. 
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
Its simple law. Do you think the officer intended to kill the guy? If so, are you willing to risk the entire case on that? 3rd degree is the only murder charge that is unintentional. I would find it very foolish to try get a conviction of second degree.
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
See if you can get me an iPad before they shut down.Rosedale Mall just announced they're shutting down because the protest is moving towards there. Guess where I just arrived at.
mcintyre1
Footballguy
Random anecdote I just remembered seeing on Unicorn Riot stream last night. For some context, Unicorn Riot is a leftist independent media outlet that has teams of livestreamers who go out in HK protest style gear (often have masks to protect from mace and gasses etc) with cameras and a big bright yellow microphone. They wander around filming the area and let anyone who wants walk up and speak to the microphone and have earned the respect of the locals involved.
By about 2am it was mostly only the looters and general rabble rousers left. A group of 5-6 young black men wearing bandanas and masks walked up to talk to the camera, plug their snapchat names, look tough (one of them asks the camera to pan to his waistline to show off a pistol he has in his pocket), etc. They do this for a bit before one of them notices the Unicorn Riot guy wearing a Bernie 2020 shirt to which he exclaimed "Heeeeeey, Bernie! My dude! He for real though. He shouldn't have dropped out man, I think he woulda won!"
By about 2am it was mostly only the looters and general rabble rousers left. A group of 5-6 young black men wearing bandanas and masks walked up to talk to the camera, plug their snapchat names, look tough (one of them asks the camera to pan to his waistline to show off a pistol he has in his pocket), etc. They do this for a bit before one of them notices the Unicorn Riot guy wearing a Bernie 2020 shirt to which he exclaimed "Heeeeeey, Bernie! My dude! He for real though. He shouldn't have dropped out man, I think he woulda won!"
bigbottom
Footballguy
This is an interesting example that you raise. To the extent there were protests, they were actually in support of the black officer who received far more prison time than white officers who had shot and killed people under similar circumstances and often were not even charged.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Well, I was actually going to ****'s after Target (need some golf balls for tomorrow). We'll see if I can even get there now.
First time south of 694 in over a month and this is what I get!
mcintyre1
Footballguy
Sounds like SPPD is in the Midway area trying to keep things under control. This is another area of police tension and another area I've lived near and worked in. It's also somewhat near where Philando Castille was killed.Rosedale Mall just announced they're shutting down because the protest is moving towards there. Guess where I just arrived at.
the moops
Footballguy
Yeah, looking at the actual MN statutes, you're looking at 3rd degree murder or 2nd degree manslaughter. Anything more than that is probably overcharging and likely lets the officer walk. It feels wrong, but that's the law.
Murder 1st degree requirements
Murder 2nd degree requirements
Murder 3rd degree requirements
Manslaughter 1st degree requirements
Manslaughter 2nd degree requirements
the moops
Footballguy
I'll see if I can find it but did anyone hear the president of the University of Minnesota and what she had to say about Minneapolis police officers? basically, she severed all ties with the Minneapolis Police department. for those who don't know the university has its own police officers but they do lots of work in conjunction with Minneapolis. sporting events and concerts and any large gatherings typically involve the university hiring Minneapolis police officers to offer additional support. it was a pretty bold move considering she's been president just a short time and the announcement came super quick
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Metro Transit and Light Rail closed down in MSP.
sho nuff
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
Ok. If that's what they go for, good luck getting 12 people to agree. Like I said, not a risk I would personally take.
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