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Another killing at the hands of the Police (17 Viewers)

djmich said:
Good thoughts.  I think the problem to solve is that it seems the narrative on racism is not changing for the positive.  Maybe, it is hard to tell, social media probably not a good barometer
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I think it depends on where you look.  Honestly, I had never paid attention all that much to it.  I knew how I was raised and how I am raising my kids.  What I didn't really understand until around 2005-6 was the breadth of the problem.  It wasn't until I volunteered in a financial services group to help people down on their luck get themselves on track.  Once I started helping, I was addicted to helping.  Every town I've moved to, one of the first things I do is find a place where they are trying to get education into those who need it in terms of personal finance, managing money, basic budgets etc.  Here in Florida it's been a tough go of finding an organization like that.  Part of me wants to open something on my own, but I have no idea how to even begin.  The research is still in process around that.  

I know my experiences are anecdotal and I know that it's not wise to build a philosophy on anecdotes, but I also can't ignore the fact that the exact same things come up time after time in different parts of the country.  They are experiencing the exact same issues and having the exact same questions.  I can't tell you what social media is saying about all this outside my limited group on facebook.  I don't go on twitter all that much and have never been on instagram.  All my thoughts are based on 1:1 interactions with those looking for help and a good amount of research on my own with respect to the history of this country.  What I believe is that while things are changing, they are changing really slowly.  My optimism is in the fact that each thing that happens, more and more stop shouting and start listening.  Ultimately, I think that's the key.  The more people listen, the more they realize the screams aren't pleads to "fix for".  They are to "fix with".  We'll get there, but it's not going to be easy and it's not going to be overnight.

 
Snotbubbles said:
He doesn't claim equality and I don't think (don't quote me on this) he believes that it's necessary, although I'm sure he'd like to see it.  I think he feels that blacks as a race were so much stronger as people prior to the Civil Rights Movement and during slavery and segregation because they had unite and do for themselves.  They didn't care about racism, it was there, but they overcame anyway.  Now in today's society, blacks are weaker because they are no longer self-sufficient, they rely on others and the black leaders manipulate White America which is more destructive to them than racism is, was or ever will be because they lost within themselves the internal fortitude they had prior to and during the Civil Rights era.  He puts this at the feet of the deterioration of the familial unit.       
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Bro... This is what happens when black people become self sufficient:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre

(Queue the retort this was before civil rights when everything magically became fair) 

 
What am I missing?   I saw an elderly gentleman pushed so that he hit the back of his head on the concrete.  https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/us/buffalo-police-suspension-shoving-man-trnd/index.html

The entire Buffalo Police Department Emergency Response Team — a total of 57 officers — has resigned from the team in support of the two officers who pushed 75-year-old Martin Gugino to the ground, seriously injuring him.

They are still employed, but no longer on ERT.

According to Buffalo Police Benevolent Association president John Evans, the cops who pushed Gugino down were just following orders.

“Fifty-seven resigned in disgust because of the treatment of two of their members, who were simply executing orders,” Evans, said in a statement.

 
Marmalade said:
What am I missing?   I saw an elderly gentleman pushed so that he hit the back of his head on the concrete.  https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/us/buffalo-police-suspension-shoving-man-trnd/index.html

The entire Buffalo Police Department Emergency Response Team — a total of 57 officers — has resigned from the team in support of the two officers who pushed 75-year-old Martin Gugino to the ground, seriously injuring him.

They are still employed, but no longer on ERT.

According to Buffalo Police Benevolent Association president John Evans, the cops who pushed Gugino down were just following orders.

“Fifty-seven resigned in disgust because of the treatment of two of their members, who were simply executing orders,” Evans, said in a statement.
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Then their orders sucked...and there needs to be an investigation.  And at the same tome...I doubt there were ordered to shove an old man.

 
Marmalade said:
What am I missing?   I saw an elderly gentleman pushed so that he hit the back of his head on the concrete.  https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/us/buffalo-police-suspension-shoving-man-trnd/index.html

The entire Buffalo Police Department Emergency Response Team — a total of 57 officers — has resigned from the team in support of the two officers who pushed 75-year-old Martin Gugino to the ground, seriously injuring him.

They are still employed, but no longer on ERT.

According to Buffalo Police Benevolent Association president John Evans, the cops who pushed Gugino down were just following orders.

“Fifty-seven resigned in disgust because of the treatment of two of their members, who were simply executing orders,” Evans, said in a statement.
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Oh, well if they were just following orders, then that makes it totally legal.

 
Marmalade said:
What am I missing?   I saw an elderly gentleman pushed so that he hit the back of his head on the concrete.  https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/us/buffalo-police-suspension-shoving-man-trnd/index.html

The entire Buffalo Police Department Emergency Response Team — a total of 57 officers — has resigned from the team in support of the two officers who pushed 75-year-old Martin Gugino to the ground, seriously injuring him.

They are still employed, but no longer on ERT.

According to Buffalo Police Benevolent Association president John Evans, the cops who pushed Gugino down were just following orders.

“Fifty-seven resigned in disgust because of the treatment of two of their members, who were simply executing orders,” Evans, said in a statement.
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How anyone could walk by him laying there, clearly bleeding and not help is beyond my comprehension. 

 
Marmalade said:
What am I missing?   I saw an elderly gentleman pushed so that he hit the back of his head on the concrete.  https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/us/buffalo-police-suspension-shoving-man-trnd/index.html

The entire Buffalo Police Department Emergency Response Team — a total of 57 officers — has resigned from the team in support of the two officers who pushed 75-year-old Martin Gugino to the ground, seriously injuring him.

They are still employed, but no longer on ERT.

According to Buffalo Police Benevolent Association president John Evans, the cops who pushed Gugino down were just following orders.

“Fifty-seven resigned in disgust because of the treatment of two of their members, who were simply executing orders,” Evans, said in a statement.
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Don't think you're missing anything TBH the way you described it here. Let them resign. There was no reason for that. And even if a mistake was a made, there was no reason for 39 officers to walk past him while he was bleeding out of his ####### ear. 

 
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joffer said:
i really don't see it as a "demand".  the players have the right to that opinion.  they also have the option not to play if they feel strongly enough about it.
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@Andy Dufresnewell slap my a$$ and call me Sally, i'll admit i'm blown away by the NFL's statement

 
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LOL at Barr’s statement to the AP.  This gang of characters can’t flee the sinking ship that was Monday’s pathetic photo op quick enough.  

 
Drunken Cowboy said:
How anyone could walk by him laying there, clearly bleeding and not help is beyond my comprehension. 
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One guy looked like he was going to, but then he got pulled away. I guess they are taking advantage of the ruling that the police are not constitutionally obligated to protect people.

 
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Marmalade said:
What am I missing?   I saw an elderly gentleman pushed so that he hit the back of his head on the concrete.  https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/us/buffalo-police-suspension-shoving-man-trnd/index.html

The entire Buffalo Police Department Emergency Response Team — a total of 57 officers — has resigned from the team in support of the two officers who pushed 75-year-old Martin Gugino to the ground, seriously injuring him.

They are still employed, but no longer on ERT.

According to Buffalo Police Benevolent Association president John Evans, the cops who pushed Gugino down were just following orders.

“Fifty-seven resigned in disgust because of the treatment of two of their members, who were simply executing orders,” Evans, said in a statement.
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Good.  Next step is to fire them all. If your response to that incident is to take up for your “workmate”, you’re part of a much bigger problem. 

 
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I protested tonight in Providence RI which was one of the biggest protests in the nation tonight.

Protestors were cool. Even 30 mins after curfew the police refused to use any force on anyone.

The governor came out after curfew to talk to the people.

The police never moved a muscle on someone

YET...

A. I'm lucky to live in a cool state

B. after being recognized and allowed to protest for 5 hours+ people are continuing to try to incite

C. At this point it's hard for me to feel bad if you're still out there and have an issue. We had a pre-set curfew, we broke it, the governor came out to the center of the protest to speak POST curfew, but people kept insisting.

Also, I'm a huge liberal, but it's time to give the cops and government a break in states like this. cmon guy, we had an awesome night and went home and even post-curfew the cops didnt move a muscle. 

ETA: Your mileage may vary depending on the state. 

 
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Lawyer says ex-Minneapolis officer Derek Chauvin illegally voted in Florida, asks Aramis Ayala to pursue charges

“While living in Minnesota, working there, paying taxes there, Derek Chauvin cannot claim residency in Orange County. His home, residency and where he intends to live is in Minnesota, not Florida,” Helm wrote.

His letter cites the Florida statute prohibiting false swearing and the submission of false voter registration information, adding that violation of the statute is a third-degree felony.

...

A search of Chauvin’s voter status in Florida shows he registered to vote Republican in Orange County at his Windermere-area address in January 2016. His registration is active. Election records show he voted in the 2016 and 2018 general elections.
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Snotbubbles said:
Thanks, some interesting points.  I think I may be able to add some context on this for you.  

Steele said that the Civil Rights Movement defeated racism.  I think he may have meant white supremacy since he acknowledges racism exists.  It sounds like he subscribes to the position that without white supremacy, racism has no teeth because it doesn't stop an individuals ability to succeed.  It doesn't stop you from being educated, it doesn't stop you from doing your desired profession, it doesn't stop you from getting a loan.  It doesn't stop you from doing anything you want to do, only "bad faith" (what he defines as excuse making) does.  He wants the black community to work harder on themselves and start to compete with other racial groups instead of believing they can't "because racism".
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There is so much wrong with this.  He states "it doesnt stop you from being educated" but that isnt true at all.  Racism is pervasive in the educational system.  It could lead to you getting access to a lesser school, teachers and therefore a lesser education than your counterpart.  Studies show blacks are punished more in schools and suspended more.  You have guidance counselors with strong bias' impacting the courses that you take.  Just because its not overt doesnt mean the racism doesnt exist and isnt extremely detrimental.  IMO this form of racism is actually even more detrimental.  So the notion that racism ended or was defeated is just outrageous. 

Destroying black familes has been a goal since slavery.  It was purposeful because they knew the impact it would have.  And it still is happening today. 

 
PinkydaPimp said:
There is so much wrong with this.  He states "it doesnt stop you from being educated" but that isnt true at all.  Racism is pervasive in the educational system.  It could lead to you getting access to a lesser school, teachers and therefore a lesser education than your counterpart.  Studies show blacks are punished more in schools and suspended more.  You have guidance counselors with strong bias' impacting the courses that you take.  Just because its not overt doesnt mean the racism doesnt exist and isnt extremely detrimental.  IMO this form of racism is actually even more detrimental.  So the notion that racism ended or was defeated is just outrageous. 

Destroying black familes has been a goal since slavery.  It was purposeful because they knew the impact it would have.  And it still is happening today. 
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Whose goal? And what year are we talking?   Bill Clinton and Joe Biden  signed and backed crime bills that have put tens of thousands of black men in prison. Was it their goal?  I don`t think that is anyone's actual goal.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Thank you. The "grope" wasn't apparent and her reaction seems a bit overboard if it wasn't one. But the police reaction afterwards was ridiculous.
 

But that gal is some sort of bad### to stand there as they're whacking her with batons. Like some sort of Terminatrix!
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The grope was clear as day

 
Drunken Cowboy said:
How anyone could walk by him laying there, clearly bleeding and not help is beyond my comprehension. 
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"Hi honey, how was it out there today?"

"Oh, you know.  More protests again."

"Any problems at all?"

"Well, some really old guy was in our way as we tried to walk back a small group of protesters. Tom gave him a shove and the guy fell backwards and smacked his head on the pavement."

"Oh, that's horrible!  Did you help the man up?"

"Nah.  We were told to move back the group, so we all just walked past him and stepped over the little pool of blood coming from his ear.  Hey, it's that pork roast I smell?!"

 
Da Guru said:
Whose goal? And what year are we talking?   Bill Clinton and Joe Biden  signed and backed crime bills that have put tens of thousands of black men in prison. Was it their goal?  I don`t think that is anyone's actual goal.
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See thats the thing about systemic racism.  And Bias.  Those bills were extremely detrimental.  Do i think they signed those bills and specifically said to themselves "im going to do this to make sure thousands of black men go to prison?"  of course not.  May they have realized that this would have that impact?  Maybe. 

Sometimes even if its not your intent, it can still be detrimental and have racism at its core.  Do i think that when realtors steer minorities to other neighborhoods thats their goal?  Not necessarily.  They may legitimately have a bias that leads them to believe that they wouldn't like the neighborhood.  But that irrational bias is leading to segregation and making it harder to find a home all because of how they look.  

When my guidance counselor in middle school wouldnt let me take an AP math class because he thought it would be too rigorous(even though i had aced all my math classes), do i think it was his goal to prevent black people from taking AP classes?  No.  But his bias led him to doing it.  That is the difference between overt racism the type that trump practices and covert and systemic forms that are less recognizable but just as damaging. 

Here is a cool video to watch:  https://youtu.be/h9mV2fRF5Xk

 
PinkydaPimp said:
See thats the thing about systemic racism.  And Bias.  Those bills were extremely detrimental.  Do i think they signed those bills and specifically said to themselves "im going to do this to make sure thousands of black men go to prison?"  of course not.  May they have realized that this would have that impact?  Maybe. 

Sometimes even if its not your intent, it can still be detrimental and have racism at its core.  Do i think that when realtors steer minorities to other neighborhoods thats their goal?  Not necessarily.  They may legitimately have a bias that leads them to believe that they wouldn't like the neighborhood.  But that irrational bias is leading to segregation and making it harder to find a home all because of how they look.  

When my guidance counselor in middle school wouldnt let me take an AP math class because he thought it would be too rigorous(even though i had aced all my math classes), do i think it was his goal to prevent black people from taking AP classes?  No.  But his bias led him to doing it.  That is the difference between overt racism the type that trump practices and covert and systemic forms that are less recognizable but just as damaging. 

Here is a cool video to watch:  https://youtu.be/h9mV2fRF5Xk
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Not to distract from the point you are trying to make, but an AP math class in middle school???  Calculus?  Statistics?  I assume you are just referring to an "advanced"  class, not the actual college level AP program?

The video...informative and entertaining

 
Galileo said:
Not to distract from the point you are trying to make, but an AP math class in middle school???  Calculus?  Statistics?  I assume you are just referring to an "advanced"  class, not the actual college level AP program?

The video...informative and entertaining
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Pardon me i don’t recall if it was formally ap or advanced.  The point is they wouldn’t allow me in the better class which made no sense.  I remember it only because i found a copy of a letter my parents wrote to the school to put them on blast.  Had they not fought to get me in that class i might not have had as strong an education which was basically the foundation for what i do today.  You wonder how many other kids just accepted it.  Very subtle things can have a huge impact at scale.

 
PinkydaPimp said:
See thats the thing about systemic racism.  And Bias.  Those bills were extremely detrimental.  Do i think they signed those bills and specifically said to themselves "im going to do this to make sure thousands of black men go to prison?"  of course not.  May they have realized that this would have that impact?  Maybe. 

Sometimes even if its not your intent, it can still be detrimental and have racism at its core.  Do i think that when realtors steer minorities to other neighborhoods thats their goal?  Not necessarily.  They may legitimately have a bias that leads them to believe that they wouldn't like the neighborhood.  But that irrational bias is leading to segregation and making it harder to find a home all because of how they look.  

When my guidance counselor in middle school wouldnt let me take an AP math class because he thought it would be too rigorous(even though i had aced all my math classes), do i think it was his goal to prevent black people from taking AP classes?  No.  But his bias led him to doing it.  That is the difference between overt racism the type that trump practices and covert and systemic forms that are less recognizable but just as damaging. 

Here is a cool video to watch:  https://youtu.be/h9mV2fRF5Xk
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I believe the congressional black caucus also supported several of those bills

 
sho nuff said:
Not that it excuses Biden at all.  I think there are always intentions to things and consequences...but people will know that and see it wasn't just Biden pushing such laws.  I don't think it will be a helpful thing to Trump in the end.
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True.  I’m actually curious now.  What else was in that bill?  Were there items that got thru and that was a compromise in some way?  I know these things aren’t always cut and dry.   I need to go back and see how people perceived that bill at the time.  

As for Biden people don’t dislike him just because of that.  I’m not a fan tbh but I’d vote for scooby doo over trump At this point!  Biden needs to get out there and really start putting together a plan to continue the progress made from this protesting.  People’s eyes are open and conversations are happening.  I really need him to step up with solutions.  He won’t win unless he gets record turnout and especially from the black community so he better get on that.  Tbh prior to all this i thought trump was going to for sure get re-elected but i think now it’s an entirely different landscape.  

 
PinkydaPimp said:
There is so much wrong with this.  He states "it doesnt stop you from being educated" but that isnt true at all.  Racism is pervasive in the educational system.  It could lead to you getting access to a lesser school, teachers and therefore a lesser education than your counterpart.  Studies show blacks are punished more in schools and suspended more.  You have guidance counselors with strong bias' impacting the courses that you take.  Just because its not overt doesnt mean the racism doesnt exist and isnt extremely detrimental.  IMO this form of racism is actually even more detrimental.  So the notion that racism ended or was defeated is just outrageous. 

Destroying black familes has been a goal since slavery.  It was purposeful because they knew the impact it would have.  And it still is happening today. 
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Access to schools, teachers and education is a class issue.  People with two parent families are statistically much more successful through all racial groups.  The Great Society destroyed the familial unit, not just black families but all families.  The black family was hit harder through those policies.  It's interesting that people recognize the destructive nature of those policies yet continue to vote for the same political party that instituted them.  I wonder why that is?

Also, you're incorrect in your assertion that Dr. Steele says racism was defeated.  He recognizes that it is still there, but he says it doesn't prevent an individual from becoming successful.    

 
BigSteelThrill said:
"Following orders" is a terrible excuse when it comes to how we treat our own citizens.
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Also - I find it hard to believe their orders were to shove old men to the ground so they hit their head and bleed all over the sidewalk.

 
Snotbubbles said:
Access to schools, teachers and education is a class issue.  People with two parent families are statistically much more successful through all racial groups.  The Great Society destroyed the familial unit, not just black families but all families.  The black family was hit harder through those policies.  It's interesting that people recognize the destructive nature of those policies yet continue to vote for the same political party that instituted them.  I wonder why that is?

Also, you're incorrect in your assertion that Dr. Steele says racism was defeated.  He recognizes that it is still there, but he says it doesn't prevent an individual from becoming successful.    
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Its not a class issue when a disproportionate number of Black people are forced/kept in the lower class with poor upward mobility.  At that point it’s a racial issue.  A systemic one. Also you could be in the upper class and have access to great schools like i did and still encounter prejudice like i described above.

also i agree that racism doesn’t prevent an individual from being successful.  But it does make it exponentially more difficult. 

 
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PinkydaPimp said:
Its not a class issue when a disproportionate number of Black people are forced/kept in the lower class with poor upward mobility.  At that point it’s a racial issue.  A systemic one. Also you could be in the upper class and have access to great schools like i did and still encounter prejudice like i described above.

also i agree that racism doesn’t prevent an individual from being successful.  But it does make it exponentially more difficult. 
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It is a class thing.  That more blacks are in poverty does not mean it's due to racism.  If you want better reason, look at welfare (I'll go back to the Great Society policies).  Welfare has incentivized the breakdown of the family unit.  Welfare, though it's intended meanings were noble, have disproportionately destroyed the black family unit.  I think the statistic was something like 70% of black families are single parent with 90% in inner cities.  But welfare isn't a racists program, it just has some terrible effects on the black community.  Then those effects ripple throughout a persons life.

Of course racism makes something exponentially more difficult.  Dr. Steele doesn't argue in the opposite.  What he says, is that using racism as a reason why you "can't" will result in never achieving any of your goals and dreams.  That's where his "bad faith" comes in.  He says black people should operate in "good faith" and say, "It's going to be harder? So what. I want this, I'm going to do it."    

 
PinkydaPimp said:
Its not a class issue when a disproportionate number of Black people are forced/kept in the lower class with poor upward mobility.  At that point it’s a racial issue.  A systemic one. Also you could be in the upper class and have access to great schools like i did and still encounter prejudice like i described above.

also i agree that racism doesn’t prevent an individual from being successful.  But it does make it exponentially more difficult. 
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A lot of what you call systematic is actually coming from the left.  The left instilling an attitude of victimhood and entitlement has done far more damage to the upward mobility.  

 
jon_mx said:
A lot of what you call systematic is actually coming from the left.  The left instilling an attitude of victimhood and entitlement has done far more damage to the upward mobility.  
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So acknowledging a problem is an attitude of victimhood?  I suppose you have interacted with all black families and know for a fact that they are just complaining and not trying to succeed despite all of the barriers in place?  Would you prefer we just shut up and “pick ourselves up by our bootstraps?”

 
Snotbubbles said:
It is a class thing.  That more blacks are in poverty does not mean it's due to racism.  If you want better reason, look at welfare (I'll go back to the Great Society policies).  Welfare has incentivized the breakdown of the family unit.  Welfare, though it's intended meanings were noble, have disproportionately destroyed the black family unit.  I think the statistic was something like 70% of black families are single parent with 90% in inner cities.  But welfare isn't a racists program, it just has some terrible effects on the black community.  Then those effects ripple throughout a persons life.

Of course racism makes something exponentially more difficult.  Dr. Steele doesn't argue in the opposite.  What he says, is that using racism as a reason why you "can't" will result in never achieving any of your goals and dreams.  That's where his "bad faith" comes in.  He says black people should operate in "good faith" and say, "It's going to be harder? So what. I want this, I'm going to do it."    
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So you think Black people aren’t doing this?  You are victim blaming.  And we cannot solve our problems without acknowledging the root causes of said problems.  These issues have been around long before welfare.  Im not saying it’s the greatest program or doesn’t have problems but calling that the root issue is just ridiculous.  

 
PinkydaPimp said:
True.  I’m actually curious now.  What else was in that bill?  Were there items that got thru and that was a compromise in some way?  I know these things aren’t always cut and dry.   I need to go back and see how people perceived that bill at the time.  

As for Biden people don’t dislike him just because of that.  I’m not a fan tbh but I’d vote for scooby doo over trump At this point!  Biden needs to get out there and really start putting together a plan to continue the progress made from this protesting.  People’s eyes are open and conversations are happening.  I really need him to step up with solutions.  He won’t win unless he gets record turnout and especially from the black community so he better get on that.  Tbh prior to all this i thought trump was going to for sure get re-elected but i think now it’s an entirely different landscape.  
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I have not read a ton about the bill, just cursory stuff ...and several other claims that were made about it...in reading I had read that the black caucus also supported the bill.  As usual the intentions of it were probably better than the results.

As for Biden getting out there, yes, keep his momentum.  His speech the other day was really good and laid out some changes...he needs to keep refining that and pushing those ideas now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_Crime_Control_and_Law_Enforcement_Act#:~:text=Title II of the Violent,of a person's sentence conviction.

Sadly...wikipedia is about the only place to get a summary without the political issues arising from in the past 2 years where you get Trump or Biden talking about it.  Best to read and follow the references. 

 
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Snotbubbles said:
It is a class thing.  That more blacks are in poverty does not mean it's due to racism.  If you want better reason, look at welfare (I'll go back to the Great Society policies).  Welfare has incentivized the breakdown of the family unit.  Welfare, though it's intended meanings were noble, have disproportionately destroyed the black family unit.  I think the statistic was something like 70% of black families are single parent with 90% in inner cities.  But welfare isn't a racists program, it just has some terrible effects on the black community.  Then those effects ripple throughout a persons life.

Of course racism makes something exponentially more difficult.  Dr. Steele doesn't argue in the opposite.  What he says, is that using racism as a reason why you "can't" will result in never achieving any of your goals and dreams.  That's where his "bad faith" comes in.  He says black people should operate in "good faith" and say, "It's going to be harder? So what. I want this, I'm going to do it."    
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How big of a factor is the disproportionate incarceration rates and sentencing leading to those single families and poverty rates? Is that a class issue too? 

 
jon_mx said:
A lot of what you call systematic is actually coming from the left.  The left instilling an attitude of victimhood and entitlement has done far more damage to the upward mobility.  
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The constant need to blame everything on the left...I really just don't get it.

 
PinkydaPimp said:
So acknowledging a problem is an attitude of victimhood?  I suppose you have interacted with all black families and know for a fact that they are just complaining and not trying to succeed despite all of the barriers in place?  Would you prefer we just shut up and “pick ourselves up by our bootstraps?”
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There is a lot of assistance and help out there.  What i would prefer is that black children grow up in neighborhoods which were safe and that they could go to schools which were condusive to learning.  What prevents that from happening is not the police, but the crime and gangs and drugs.  Certainly it woukd be great if all cops were outstanding people, but ultimstely it is not the police which are creating the crime ridden inner cities.  The majority of the solutions need to come from within these communities. 

 
jon_mx said:
I know, it's all the rights fault.    
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Nope...I didn't say or imply that either.  Like with the claims of who is causing the violence in these protests turning to riots...there is one group claiming its all or most one side.  The rest of us have stated clearly there is a mix of both at fault.

 
jon_mx said:
There is a lot of assistance and help out there.  What i would prefer is that black children grow up in neighborhoods which were safe and that they could go to schools which were condusive to learning.  What prevents that from happening is not the police, but the crime and gangs and drugs.  Certainly it woukd be great if all cops were outstanding people, but ultimstely it is not the police which are creating the crime ridden inner cities.  The majority of the solutions need to come from within these communities. 
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Have you ever asked yourself why people turn to crime and gangs as a "way of life"?  Could there be a deeper issue that has created the environment you are blaming?

 
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