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College Admissions Questions (2 Viewers)

El Floppo said:
when I was on my recruiting trip to Cal, when the coach had finished his spiel he asked me if there was anything else that would entice me to come there. I wasn't sure where this was headed, but pretty quickly responded- "a couple of leggy blondes and a ferrari?". it apparently wasn't headed there.

but things have obviously changed in a huge way regarding recruitment. my wife's nephew is Jr in HS, rows crew- coaches have been asking him to come look at their schools... which wasn't legal back in my day (couldn't go on recruiting trips until Sr year). her niece is a Soph, and is already getting college calls regarding basketball.  and I've heard of this happening with freshman football players... completely nuts.
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I am not sure if you read the story or not.

The story is not about recruiting athletes and all that normal corruption.

The story is about  parents and their kids "pretending" to be athletes so that bribes can be made to college coaches to get kids accepted to colleges they would not normally be accepted in.

 
NewlyRetired said:
I am not sure if you read the story or not.

The story is not about recruiting athletes and all that normal corruption.

The story is about  parents and their kids "pretending" to be athletes so that bribes can be made to college coaches to get kids accepted to colleges they would not normally be accepted in.
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Yeah. I read it, which got me thinking about current above-board recruiting practices. In retrospect, i guess had nothing to do with that story at all though.

Eta... :Bag: ... Carry on.

 
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A couple of additional thoughts about the college admissions scandal.

The guy behind the scheme says he's worked with 761 families. They nabbed like 35. Think about how many more are out there. I imagine every school has already launched an audit of their recent athletic recruits to determine if any of their coaches have been pulling a similar scam. I can just envision the Princeton sailing coach tracking down some kid he got admitted 4 years ago that he's literally never met - and suddenly requiring him to show up for practice and races even though he can't swim. This could actually be a movie.

People complain about colleges' non-profit status despite their immense wealth. If anything, this episode shows how underpriced the most selective schools are compared to what the market would bear. They could raise the sticker price for full-pay kids to $250,000 without materially impacting their student body. That extra money could go to more fully subsidize lower income students. 

 
Privilege vs. hard work is an interesting discussion when it comes to standardized test scores.  My son did very well on the ACT.  And he worked extremely hard to get that score.  Loads of studying, took upwards of 10 full blown practice exams under timed conditions.  By all accounts he earned that score, unlike the cheaters in this recent scandal.  But there is also no denying that he is privileged.  We paid a not insignificant sum in ACT tutoring fees to have someone work with him one on one to improve his weak areas and hone his test-taking skills.  He has the resources of a well-funded college placement department at his high school.  He has parents who have educated themselves on standardized test taking so they could both support him and keep him accountable during his test preparation.  Simply put, he has resources that aren't available to a lot of kids.  Test preparation is a booming industry that I'm sure is raking in millions of dollars annually (if not tens or hundreds of millions).  So while I am happy to judge and condemn the brazen cheating that has been revealed by these indictments, I also need to acknowledge that, even without all the cheating, the system remains stacked in favor of those with resources and privilege.  I'm proud of my son and what he was able to achieve through hard work and determination, but I also know he had a whole lot of help along the way. And he should know that as well. 

 
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bigbottom said:
Privilege vs. hard work is an interesting discussion when it comes to standardized test scores.  My son did very well on the ACT.  And he worked extremely hard to get that score.  Loads of studying, took upwards of 10 full blown practice exams under timed conditions.  By all accounts he earned that score, unlike the cheaters in this recent scandal.  But there is also no denying that he is privileged.  We paid a not insignificant sum in ACT tutoring fees to have someone work with him one on one to improve his weak areas and hone his test-taking skills.  He has the resources of a well-funded college placement department at his high school.  He has parents who have educated themselves on standardized test taking so they could both support him and keep him accountable during his test preparation.  Simply put, he has resources that aren't available to a lot of kids.  Test preparation is a booming industry that I'm sure is raking in millions of dollars annually (if not tens or hundreds of millions).  So while I am happy to judge and condemn the brazen cheating that has been revealed by these indictments, I also need to acknowledge that, even without all the cheating, the system remains stacked in favor of those with resources and privilege.  I'm proud of my son and what he was able to achieve through hard work and determination, but I also know he had a whole lot of help along the way. And he should know that as well. 
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You identify specific advantages, like practice exams, tutoring, and highly engaged, knowledgable parents.

And that's all on top of the research that shows there are already identifiable vocabulary gaps by the age of 18 months, with studies showing that children of educated, affluent parents might hear 30 million more words by age 3 than children of poor parents. The ACT and SAT are kind of a joke and are losing prominence in the admissions process more and more rapidly.  

 
The_Man said:
You identify specific advantages, like practice exams, tutoring, and highly engaged, knowledgable parents.

And that's all on top of the research that shows there are already identifiable vocabulary gaps by the age of 18 months, with studies showing that children of educated, affluent parents might hear 30 million more words by age 3 than children of poor parents. The ACT and SAT are kind of a joke and are losing prominence in the admissions process more and more rapidly.  
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Losing prominence?  I am aware of a handful of schools moving to test score optional admissions, but ACT/SAT still seem to be a pretty huge factor at most schools.

 
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bigbottom said:
Privilege vs. hard work is an interesting discussion when it comes to standardized test scores.  My son did very well on the ACT.  And he worked extremely hard to get that score.  Loads of studying, took upwards of 10 full blown practice exams under timed conditions.  By all accounts he earned that score, unlike the cheaters in this recent scandal.  But there is also no denying that he is privileged.  We paid a not insignificant sum in ACT tutoring fees to have someone work with him one on one to improve his weak areas and hone his test-taking skills.  He has the resources of a well-funded college placement department at his high school.  He has parents who have educated themselves on standardized test taking so they could both support him and keep him accountable during his test preparation.  Simply put, he has resources that aren't available to a lot of kids.  Test preparation is a booming industry that I'm sure is raking in millions of dollars annually (if not tens or hundreds of millions).  So while I am happy to judge and condemn the brazen cheating that has been revealed by these indictments, I also need to acknowledge that, even without all the cheating, the system remains stacked in favor of those with resources and privilege.  I'm proud of my son and what he was able to achieve through hard work and determination, but I also know he had a whole lot of help along the way. And he should know that as well. 
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Agreed. We paid a relatively insignificant amount for some test prep, but still my kids are at an advantage and scandals like this truly show the gap and honestly the amount of privilege that some people feel. Makes me sick that lots of people actually put faith in what some of these stars say and yet the stars couldn’t be more hypocritical. Makes me also feel bad for the kids at such a disadvantage or kids that work their ### off just to know that there are kids paying their way in and taking spots away. You know that there is no chance this is the only circle where it’s happening.

Disgusting that a family would spend double the cost of school just to get their kid into a prestigious school, all the while likely not donating a dime.

 
NewlyRetired said:
it was a handful ten years ago.

Next year over a 1000 colleges in the US will be test optional.
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Wow, I had no idea. Will be very interesting to see how things develop. I know the original thinking for standardized test was to create a basis for comparison between students attending a wide variety of high schools.

 
bigbottom said:
Wow, I had no idea. Will be very interesting to see how things develop. I know the original thinking for standardized test was to create a basis for comparison between students attending a wide variety of high schools.
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I am sure it will be a mixed bag.  We will eventually get to a market cap where X amount of colleges go test optional and it won't rise too much from there.  Testing will still be needed in many colleges.

I am very thankful for the policy.  My daughter would likely not have been accepted to any good schools with out it.   And because they had the policy, not only was she accepted to good schools, the schools also threw her a lot of money (she ended up with a full 4 year tuition scholarship at Trinity)

 
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Tweet from the dad of my kid's classmate, some guy named Phil Mickelson:

Our family, along with thousands of others, used Rick Singer’s company to guide us through the college admission process. We are shocked by the revelations of these events. Obviously, we were not part of this fraud, our kids would disown us if we ever tried to interfere.
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Though to hear my son tell it, Phil's daughter is actually a total bookworm. The celebrity kid he's way more suspicious of is Teri Hatcher's daughter. Note that Hatcher and Huffman were co-stars on Desperate Housewives together and could have shared info.

 
The_Man said:
Tweet from the dad of my kid's classmate, some guy named Phil Mickelson:

Though to hear my son tell it, Phil's daughter is actually a total bookworm. The celebrity kid he's way more suspicious of is Teri Hatcher's daughter. Note that Hatcher and Huffman were co-stars on Desperate Housewives together and could have shared info.
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Phil needs to look at his grade 9 English book and review comma splices.  He's a ##### in any case.

 
bigbottom said:
Privilege vs. hard work is an interesting discussion when it comes to standardized test scores.  My son did very well on the ACT.  And he worked extremely hard to get that score.  Loads of studying, took upwards of 10 full blown practice exams under timed conditions.  By all accounts he earned that score, unlike the cheaters in this recent scandal.  But there is also no denying that he is privileged.  We paid a not insignificant sum in ACT tutoring fees to have someone work with him one on one to improve his weak areas and hone his test-taking skills.  He has the resources of a well-funded college placement department at his high school.  He has parents who have educated themselves on standardized test taking so they could both support him and keep him accountable during his test preparation.  Simply put, he has resources that aren't available to a lot of kids.  Test preparation is a booming industry that I'm sure is raking in millions of dollars annually (if not tens or hundreds of millions).  So while I am happy to judge and condemn the brazen cheating that has been revealed by these indictments, I also need to acknowledge that, even without all the cheating, the system remains stacked in favor of those with resources and privilege.  I'm proud of my son and what he was able to achieve through hard work and determination, but I also know he had a whole lot of help along the way. And he should know that as well. 
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... all while not having to hold a job, not being hungry, attending a well-funded school, being able to afford entrance fees for multiple colleges, etc.  It's certainly not fair, and sad that with all those advantages, some still decided to cheat.

 
Tick said:
... all while not having to hold a job, not being hungry, attending a well-funded school, being able to afford entrance fees for multiple colleges, etc.  It's certainly not fair, and sad that with all those advantages, some still decided to cheat.
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Yep. 

 
Tick said:
... all while not having to hold a job, not being hungry, attending a well-funded school, being able to afford entrance fees for multiple colleges, etc.  It's certainly not fair, and sad that with all those advantages, some still decided to cheat.
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Not challenging your theme, but I would like to point out that schools will waive application fees on financial grounds. Same for testing fees. As a matter of fact, if you are income-eligible to receive an SAT fee waiver, the College Board will offer up to four free college application waivers. 

 
hang in there, GB. I still believe she’s getting into Georgetown. But it’s so painful for these kids who have done so much for so long to get told it somehow wasn’t enough 

 
@El Floppo she’s in at BC which is great and we’re thankful for but but she really does not want to go there, and I understand her reasons. 

I hope your hunch is a good one @The_Man and Gtown works out but I’m just not feeling it. Appreciate the positive vibes though.  :thumbup:

For tonight’s round of disapointment my wife is away w my youngest overnight at a hockey tourney. A solid test of my parenting skills - think I did ok. My son and I coaxed a few laughs over sushi between tears so that was a victory. We knew CMC was coming tonight at 8 pm but NWstrn was a surprise, got email out of blue at 7pm decisions were out. So got whacked once, sat around while she cried for an hour, then got whacked again. Duke and Penn next up on 3/28. Vandy and Gtown the two other remaing outs later invthe week. Expecting more heartbreak but hoping for best. Yuck.

 
the most frustrating part for us parents is knowing that in the vast majority of the time, once these good students go to a college, they will forget about any rejections so fast. 

It is hard to see them get so sad and dejected for something that in the long run will have almost no effect on them.

 
pecorino said:
Forgive me if it’s bern asked already, but what do you think about 529 plans?
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they are very good if not the best way to help save for college. 

This thread does not talk about them much but you can find a ton of info and opinions in one of the many financial threads on the FFA.

 
So bizarre to be watching my senior decide between full scholarships and watching my freshman narrowly avoid failing classes... they're equally smart, but he's such a dummy.

 
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NewlyRetired said:
when do the wait list offers come in?   It must be a juggling process of deciding if the child wants to attend college A while still waiting on college B wait list.   
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We’ll have to be willing to eat whatever deposit is due BC to hold our place.

eta: waitlist decisions roll starting soon after May 1, as some decline others get offered until spots are full. Can go on into June I think.

 
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Nigel said:
We’ll have to be willing to eat whatever deposit is due BC to hold our place.
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so as of right this second, is it BC for her?   Has she shown any signs of being happy with this? 

(note: I am from the area and very familiar with the school, it is a very well respected and beautiful school that I think she would love).

 
BC rules - I went there, we live 20 min away. Her cousin/best friend will be in the same class if she goes. But she really wants to be in a different city and will be pretty damn disappointed if that’s her only option. Just not the vision she’s been working hard for and dreaming of the past four years. She’d love it eventually though.

 
Nigel said:
BC rules - I went there, we live 20 min away. Her cousin/best friend will be in the same class if she goes. But she really wants to be in a different city and will be pretty damn disappointed if that’s her only option. Just not the vision she’s been working hard for and dreaming of the past four years. She’d love it eventually though.
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I think she will love it too. 

My guess is once she goes and rooms there, she will realize that she is on her own and independent and will get that feeling of being in another "city" that she wants.

I am from Millis and grew up in Needham.  Did you grow up in the area?

 
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NewlyRetired said:
I think she will love it too. 

My guess is once she goes and rooms there, she will realize that she is on her own and independent and will get that feeling of being in another "city" that she wants.

I am from Millis and grew up in Needham.  Did you grow up in the area?
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Yup - grew up in Foxboro

 
That's a murderers row of schools...assuming there are even more heavy hitters to come. And to have Cal in your pocket already...that's awesome.

 
chet said:
Pretty sure she's ruled out all but Western Ivey (Canadian school), UVA and Cal. No decisions yet but my guess is the Canadian school's in the lead.  
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one of the fun parts of this thread is learning about good schools I never heard of before.  I am googling Western Ivey right now to educate myself.

 
NewlyRetired said:
one of the fun parts of this thread is learning about good schools I never heard of before.  I am googling Western Ivey right now to educate myself.
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Is this considered Ivey Business School as an offshoot of University of Western Ontario or am I looking in the wrong place?  I can't find something called Western Ivey specifically...

 
Penn RD accept rate = 5.5%

Duke = 5.7%

More convinced than ever that applying ED is the only way to go. Applying EA doesn’t give a meaningful bump. I know that takes HYPS off the table, but I think that’s the price you have to pay to get the ED bump. 

This year’s accept rates are just insane and they show no sign of letting up. 

 
NewlyRetired said:
Is this considered Ivey Business School as an offshoot of University of Western Ontario or am I looking in the wrong place?  I can't find something called Western Ivey specifically...
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Yes. My alma mater. Western is a good school in Canada but the Ivey school is a separate application and is very selective. She did a summer program there and loved it. If she goes, she’ll do two years of general and then enter Ivey. 

Fingers crossed for Stanford tomorrow but realistic expectations. 

Good of luck to everyone in this crazy process!

 
Nigel/Chet - sorry to hear about your daughters having to go through those rejections/waitlisting.  It's such a tough process for kids like yours, who are so accomplished at a young age, but facing the harsh reality of world-wide competition.  The low acceptance rates at those schools is astounding - and when you consider that those schools reserve 20% of their class for First Generation students (which I assume yours are not), 20% to international students, X% to athletes, X% to legacy, etc. - and there's not much room left in the class - and no dummies apply to those schools.  I'm sure you've told them it won't ultimately matter where they get their B.A. or B.S. degree, but it sucks to have to watch your kid get rejected like that after years of hard work.

But Berkeley and BU are great schools  - and actually are incredible back-ups to have while they wait to hear from the others.  Congrats on that.

 
chet said:
Pretty sure she's ruled out all but Western Ivey (Canadian school), UVA and Cal. No decisions yet but my guess is the Canadian school's in the lead.  
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Your daughter got waitlisted at Harvard, correct?  And she's ruled out Harvard already...  if her number came up at Harvard, she wouldn't consider accepting?  

 
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NewlyRetired said:
chet said:
Pretty sure she's ruled out all but Western Ivey (Canadian school), UVA and Cal. No decisions yet but my guess is the Canadian school's in the lead.  
Click to expand...
one of the fun parts of this thread is learning about good schools I never heard of before.  I am googling Western Ivey right now to educate myself.
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wait... the school is called Western Ivey? I just assumed it was a new category of schools out west that are Ivy level. 

 
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