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NewlyRetired

College Admissions Questions

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1 minute ago, HellToupee said:

I blame the education systems  that sell the fairytale . Kids that opt for community college first are treated like failures . I have no doubt a lot of people are on the hook for 50k+ a year schools

Thats me and actually at first it felt like that but now its no big deal. Have a job lined up in a fairly well financial investing firm from my internship this past summer and my debt is no where near close to a few of my friends that got accepted to the big time schools.

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3 hours ago, NewlyRetired said:

If we have a choice between various SAT Subject Tests to send in to the colleges, is it correct to choose the tests where the student did better % wise compared to other students instead of just choosing the highest scoring ones?

On my phone so can't pull the research I did, but I found this to be a very under-studied area. Basically, there are more good scores on Math 2 and the sciences than all the humanities combined. Don't do languages because the native speakers take them and destroy the curve and percentiles. And don't submit math/science unless those scores are way better then humanities or your kid is applying for engineering or science 

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51 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

Some schools give a ton off the "sticker price" , others don't. We are paying roughly 22k a year for Williams . They are very generous to even decent income families. State school that my daughter liked about 5 miles from Williams was 20k

 

Syracuse was 60+ and offered zip :lol:

I feel like either you go to an elite school that gives great need based aid, or go to a less selective school with big merit money, or go in-state. No sense in racking up $100k or more in undergrad debt. We make between 150-200k, have a younger kid in private school, and are paying Brown about $28k with no student loans. That's on the extreme high end of what we can swing. Son got merit aid to some other schools - bringing cost down to around $18k. We decided to eat the $10k difference - if he had scored a full ride we probably would have had him take it and earmarked most of the $28k/year for his grad school. 

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1 hour ago, SHIZNITTTT said:

JFC people are insane to pay anything close to that money for a ####### bachelors degree.  It would only take 70 years to pay off your student loans. 

I would never let my daughter do this unless she was taking a major that was a near guarantee of an immediate high paying job.

But since we have the money, I am ok with it to a point.  

I really wish her major was something more I could get behind but it is impossible for me to crush her dreams so young.  I figure life will be crushing enough for her when she grows up:)

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2 hours ago, NewlyRetired said:

I am not expecting any financial aid, but out of curiosity what is the benefit of submitting the FAFSA before you apply to schools?

 

Just review your target list and check for the earliest deadline. Make sure it's in at least a couple of weeks before that. If you're not after need based aid then early submission isn't a real priority.

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1 minute ago, MAC_32 said:

Just review your target list and check for the earliest deadline. Make sure it's in at least a couple of weeks before that. If you're not after need based aid then early submission isn't a real priority.

I was asking what the benefit is of passing in early.  Do schools give out financial aid on a first come first serve basis?

 I might have been under the mistaken impression that each school gave a deadline and if you met that deadline then your application for aid would be treated same as everyone else who also met said deadline.

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Just now, NewlyRetired said:

I was asking what the benefit is of passing in early.  Do schools give out financial aid on a first come first serve basis?

 I might have been under the mistaken impression that each school gave a deadline and if you met that deadline then your application for aid would be treated same as everyone else who also met said deadline.

Schools have a pool of federal/state need based aid. How it's distributed varies school to school, but there is some fcfs to it. This is the first year fafsa has been bumped up to October 1, so I'm curious to read what impact it has on how institutional aid is factored, if at all. When it was January 1 application deadlines had already passed at many places.

if you're not expecting any need based aid I can't imagine there's any benefit to getting it in early, outside of peace of mind and a pain in the ### removed from your to do list.

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1 minute ago, MAC_32 said:

if you're not expecting any need based aid I can't imagine there's any benefit to getting it in early, outside of peace of mind and a pain in the ### removed from your to do list.

thanks!

We are going to tackle it in early Oct just in case we get something small.  It can't hurt to try.

The colleges are so much smarter than many govt programs.   Because I am retired, I can keep my income pretty much below poverty level and for some reason, many govt programs do not properly check means, they base everything on income.

Colleges appear to grab every piece of financial data available to them.

I sometimes feel like college's punish those that saved their money instead of spent it on vacations, fancy cars etc.

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1 hour ago, The_Man said:

I feel like either you go to an elite school that gives great need based aid, or go to a less selective school with big merit money, or go in-state. No sense in racking up $100k or more in undergrad debt. We make between 150-200k, have a younger kid in private school, and are paying Brown about $28k with no student loans. That's on the extreme high end of what we can swing. Son got merit aid to some other schools - bringing cost down to around $18k. We decided to eat the $10k difference - if he had scored a full ride we probably would have had him take it and earmarked most of the $28k/year for his grad school. 

How did you manage only 28k for Brown when full ticket is 65k?   Sounds like you'd be out of the range for financial aid.  

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7 minutes ago, NewlyRetired said:

For the grad school kids, is the financial aid still based on the parents means or does it start to treat the student as a separate entity at that point?

ok I think I found the answer.  There are a bunch of questions they use to determine whether the student is dependent (uses parents income/means) or independent (only uses the students means/income).

If you answer yes to one or more of the questions, you are considered independent.  Here is the question that should cover most grad school students to stop having their parents means/income being used.

At the beginning of the 2016–17 school year, will you be working on a master’s or doctorate program (such as an M.A., M.B.A., M.D., J.D., Ph.D., Ed.D., graduate certificate, etc.)?

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11 minutes ago, NutterButter said:

How did you manage only 28k for Brown when full ticket is 65k?   Sounds like you'd be out of the range for financial aid.  

my daughter is applying to Brown as her reach school and we tried the online financial aid calculator they provided and we got crushed on the means section even though we have almost no income.

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2 minutes ago, NewlyRetired said:

my daughter is applying to Brown as her reach school and we tried the online financial aid calculator they provided and we got crushed on the means section even though we have almost no income.

i think you mentioned this early, but i think they look at everything.  my dad who retired recently thought that it would benefit him with my sister in college this year.  he was sadly mistaken.  

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12 minutes ago, NewlyRetired said:

my daughter is applying to Brown as her reach school and we tried the online financial aid calculator they provided and we got crushed on the means section even though we have almost no income.

Well, other than about $100k in home equity, we don't have a lot of assets. I hear the financial aid formulas kill you on any properties you own other than your primary residence. They basically feel you can sell those off and use the proceeds for tuition. And we get some break for having another kid in a tuition paying institution. But like I said, the super rich schools give out tons of aid. At Harvard and Princeton, your family contribution is capped at 10% of household income, up to $150k. From there, they reduce aid on a sliding scale, until you get 0 somewhere north of like $225k. Brown can't afford to be quite as generous but they still give tons of aid

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See like I mentioned above I am a little shell shocked at some of this. My wife and I do okay (not FBG rich), but our debt to income is a little higher than I like at this point in my life and that is primarily because we have given our two kids too much--bottom line. I believe the families financial situation is considered on the FAFSA--at least I hope it is.

The school my daughter is set on is Colorado College, I don't quite think it is the best fit for her field of choice (mathematics), but it is close to home, is not a party school and like I said, my wife is an alumni. Her other choice is Colorado School of Mines. We have looked at it and it is an engineering/science school about 2 hours from here in Golden. She called it a nerd school and said it was boring--which may not be a bad thing as far as dad's perspective :D. Her fallback is CU/Boulder--major party school, but it is like UCCS here in town--the acceptance rate is ridiculously high and I can't say I want my daughter going there and I honestly don't think she wants to leave her home town.

The plan is we will get our FAFSA done this weekend. We have some mutual friends that got us a one on one with the admissions director at CC next week. My girl is already working hard on scholarships. The Boettcher would be a dream (it is a full ride to a Colorado school of her choice) but it is only awarded to one child and that is it. We know two of the past winners and are working with them to help. We have a wonderful gifted and talented teacher at her high school, who also happens to be an AP English teacher, who is going to help her refine her college application essays. I have told her to apply for every scholarship under the sun, I  don't care if it is KFC giving a $1,000 for an essay on chickens. You write the best damn Chicken essay every conceived.

 I have always tried to be that laid back, let's just keep focusing on the forest thru the trees type parent, but I am now stressed beyond belief that I am going to let her down. Her school of choice unfortunately is a very elitist, highly liberal, rich person school--which in no way describes my wife and I. If she get accepted but can't go because of $$$ after all she has sacrificed because of us, I am going to feel like crap. But In the same vein, we have another daughter that is 12 (and already equally gifted)  that we can't cripple ourselves financially and mortgage our/her future for this.:wall:

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3 minutes ago, The_Man said:

Well, other than about $100k in home equity, we don't have a lot of assets. I hear the financial aid formulas kill you on any properties you own other than your primary residence. 

It kills you on the primary residence as well.  When I played around with having little equity compared to the full equity I do have in the house, it seemed to make quite a bit of difference.

I find it kind of depressing that using a 529 plan hurts you.

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8 minutes ago, Courtjester said:

 We have a wonderful gifted and talented teacher at her high school, who also happens to be an AP English teacher, who is going to help her refine her college application essays. I have told her to apply for every scholarship under the sun, I  don't care if it is KFC giving a $1,000 for an essay on chickens. You write the best damn Chicken essay every conceived.

This is one thing we have not looked at yet.

Do these outside scholarships have to be done before you apply to school or can you start attacking these in January?

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1 minute ago, The_Man said:

Well, other than about $100k in home equity, we don't have a lot of assets. I hear the financial aid formulas kill you on any properties you own other than your primary residence. They basically feel you can sell those off and use the proceeds for tuition. And we get some break for having another kid in a tuition paying institution. But like I said, the super rich schools give out tons of aid. At Harvard and Princeton, your family contribution is capped at 10% of household income, up to $150k. From there, they reduce aid on a sliding scale, until you get 0 somewhere north of like $225k. Brown can't afford to be quite as generous but they still give tons of aid

I guess there's hope.   I knew the ivys gave out a ton of aid, but I was leaning towards most of that going to low income although I was hoping that wasn't the case.  My philosophy has always been to have enough to send my kids to wherever they want and if we got aid, then gravy.  Checking out the harvard site and filling out their little aid calculator at 250k family income, we'd get 2k in aid and at 150k family income, we'd get 47k in aid. :lol:  I'd almost be better off quiting my job for 4 years.

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Hang in there @Courtjester. These things have a way of working out, especially for kids as talented as yours. I just googled and Colorado College has some pretty generous merit scholarships, including the Barnes which is a full ride for math/science majors. Really glad to hear about your meeting, because it will help flag you for merit consideration. 

CC seems like a super school. My son was really intrigued by their block schedule. But the truth is, a talented kid like yours really will do great wherever she end up. And they surprise you - she's not going to want to impoverish you just to go to one particular school. 

Let us know how it goes, but I'm predicting good things on the merit front 

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31 minutes ago, Courtjester said:

See like I mentioned above I am a little shell shocked at some of this. My wife and I do okay (not FBG rich), but our debt to income is a little higher than I like at this point in my life and that is primarily because we have given our two kids too much--bottom line. I believe the families financial situation is considered on the FAFSA--at least I hope it is.

The school my daughter is set on is Colorado College, I don't quite think it is the best fit for her field of choice (mathematics), but it is close to home, is not a party school and like I said, my wife is an alumni. Her other choice is Colorado School of Mines. We have looked at it and it is an engineering/science school about 2 hours from here in Golden. She called it a nerd school and said it was boring--which may not be a bad thing as far as dad's perspective :D. Her fallback is CU/Boulder--major party school, but it is like UCCS here in town--the acceptance rate is ridiculously high and I can't say I want my daughter going there and I honestly don't think she wants to leave her home town.

The plan is we will get our FAFSA done this weekend. We have some mutual friends that got us a one on one with the admissions director at CC next week. My girl is already working hard on scholarships. The Boettcher would be a dream (it is a full ride to a Colorado school of her choice) but it is only awarded to one child and that is it. We know two of the past winners and are working with them to help. We have a wonderful gifted and talented teacher at her high school, who also happens to be an AP English teacher, who is going to help her refine her college application essays. I have told her to apply for every scholarship under the sun, I  don't care if it is KFC giving a $1,000 for an essay on chickens. You write the best damn Chicken essay every conceived.

 I have always tried to be that laid back, let's just keep focusing on the forest thru the trees type parent, but I am now stressed beyond belief that I am going to let her down. Her school of choice unfortunately is a very elitist, highly liberal, rich person school--which in no way describes my wife and I. If she get accepted but can't go because of $$$ after all she has sacrificed because of us, I am going to feel like crap. But In the same vein, we have another daughter that is 12 (and already equally gifted)  that we can't cripple ourselves financially and mortgage our/her future for this.:wall:

USAFA is in town and has a pretty good math program. Can't beat the cost. ?

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27 minutes ago, The_Man said:

Hang in there @Courtjester. These things have a way of working out, especially for kids as talented as yours. I just googled and Colorado College has some pretty generous merit scholarships, including the Barnes which is a full ride for math/science majors. Really glad to hear about your meeting, because it will help flag you for merit consideration. 

CC seems like a super school. My son was really intrigued by their block schedule. But the truth is, a talented kid like yours really will do great wherever she end up. And they surprise you - she's not going to want to impoverish you just to go to one particular school. 

Let us know how it goes, but I'm predicting good things on the merit front 

Thanks man for the kind words!!

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8 minutes ago, Nugget said:

USAFA is in town and has a pretty good math program. Can't beat the cost. ?

Yeah, that's not going to be her gig, Um...how can I put this, my daughter has danced ballet/pointe for the past 13 years including professionally with a couple major companies. She's head cheerleader at her school. She's sort of high maintenance and would last about 10 seconds there.

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On 9/28/2016 at 8:19 PM, MAC_32 said:

Schools have a pool of federal/state need based aid. How it's distributed varies school to school, but there is some fcfs to it. This is the first year fafsa has been bumped up to October 1, so I'm curious to read what impact it has on how institutional aid is factored, if at all. When it was January 1 application deadlines had already passed at many places.

if you're not expecting any need based aid I can't imagine there's any benefit to getting it in early, outside of peace of mind and a pain in the ### removed from your to do list.

Right, the date change can be key, I'm thinking.  Let's say you're fairly poor and you send out your FAFSA info on Oct. 1, well before the typical Nov. 1 early action or early decision deadline date.  Don't the "need aware" schools have your financials available to them when considering your application?  At least some of them say they will make a decision by late December.  Before this year, they would have made a decision before they could have had the FAFSA info, no?  Please enlighten this rookie.

Thanks, NR, for jump starting this topic.  Good luck to you and your daughter.  I'm really rooting for her today and in her search.

Would homecoming queen be resume or application worthy?

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Fear The Turtle said:

Would homecoming queen be resume or application worthy?

I googled this and it looks to be a common question with many different answers.  Some say this is not what colleges want to see in the awards sections, others say it can show the colleges the student is well liked in her class.

I believe the common app only allows places for 5 awards, so have her list out what she has and see if you can help her prioritize them.  

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29 minutes ago, Fear The Turtle said:

Right, the date change can be key, I'm thinking.  Let's say you're fairly poor and you send out your FAFSA info on Oct. 1, well before the typical Nov. 1 early action or early decision deadline date.  Don't the "need aware" schools have your financials available to them when considering your application?  At least some of them say they will make a decision by late December.  Before this year, they would have made a decision before they could have had the FAFSA info, no?  Please enlighten this rookie.

Thanks, NR, for jump starting this topic.  Good luck to you and your daughter.  I'm really rooting for her today and in her search.

Would homecoming queen be resume or application worthy?

 

 

I forget the name of the tool, but there is a fairly reliable estimator my school uses during the application process. Unless an applicant lies Admissions is usually able to estimate their efc within about $100. I work at a smaller school that's generally a safety option for applicants, so I'm sure wealthier schools at the very least have similar abilities. I don't think the unknown surrounding the actual financials is going to play much of a role with this date change. The variable will be how Admissions handles early admits vs those pushing the deadline. Will they get antsy with those that have applied but not submitted FAFSA and offer those that have a more generous package before another school does? My gut says initially, no, but a couple/few years from now? I'm keeping an open mind.

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5 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

I forget the name of the tool, but there is a fairly reliable estimator my school uses during the application process. Unless an applicant lies Admissions is usually able to estimate their efc within about $100. I work at a smaller school that's generally a safety option for applicants, so I'm sure wealthier schools at the very least have similar abilities. I don't think the unknown surrounding the actual financials is going to play much of a role with this date change. The variable will be how Admissions handles early admits vs those pushing the deadline. Will they get antsy with those that have applied but not submitted FAFSA and offer those that have a more generous package before another school does? My gut says initially, no, but a couple/few years from now? I'm keeping an open mind.

Sorry to sound obtuse here but you're saying that just from the Common Application, which I, unfortunately, haven't even looked at yet, Admissions can tell what an EFC will be?

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I won't pretend to know their whole process. I work in Finance. I asked them a couple of years ago what they do regarding potential freshmen awards for forecasting purposes. They told me this is what they do and I said ok. Anytime a significant issue has come up since related to a freshmen award it has been because they tried lying to the Feds, so there hasn't been a reason to follow up about this specific process. It's certainly possible we require something not required most places, but given how lean our staff is it'd surprise me.

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2 hours ago, Fear The Turtle said:

Sorry to sound obtuse here but you're saying that just from the Common Application, which I, unfortunately, haven't even looked at yet, Admissions can tell what an EFC will be?

I think he's talking about the Net Price Calculator, which every college is required to post

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Do you guys have any general opinions or comments about these newer type honors programs at the state schools?  Are they very hard to get into and is the quality much higher than that of the regular state school that they are apart of?

My daughter has avoided looking at state schools but in looking around at some safety school level options for her, it made me wonder whether we should be considering this more.

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On 9/28/2016 at 9:06 PM, NewlyRetired said:

It kills you on the primary residence as well.  When I played around with having little equity compared to the full equity I do have in the house, it seemed to make quite a bit of difference.

I find it kind of depressing that using a 529 plan hurts you.

What if you leave the 529 under someone else's SSN until it's time to pay, but after the FAFSA is submitted?

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7 minutes ago, Gawain said:

What if you leave the 529 under someone else's SSN until it's time to pay, but after the FAFSA is submitted?

There are probably many games that can be played.  

I believe the 529 is considered a parents asset and not the child's asset, which is better since the childs assets are treated different by the formulas.

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We went to visit Connecticut College today and got some interesting information from the admissions guy who ran the info session.

The school is test optional and I asked him if he could give us a general rule of thumb of what score level we should consider the line in terms of whether to send in test scores or not.

He hesitated a second and said something like "to be very honest with you, we are still in the very early days of compiling the new SAT scores and what they mean to our school.  We are going to be using the test results as an even smaller portion of our admissions process this year than we have ever before, and that is obviously only for the students who even choose to send in scores"

The school uses 4 choices for sending in test results

a) SAT's or

b) ACT's or

C) 2 SAT Subject Tests or

D) No Tests

He went on to say that last year, choice D) became a plurality for the first time since they introduced the test optional choice back in 2009.

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5 minutes ago, NewlyRetired said:

We went to visit Connecticut College today and got some interesting information from the admissions guy who ran the info session.

The school is test optional and I asked him if he could give us a general rule of thumb of what score level we should consider the line in terms of whether to send in test scores or not.

He hesitated a second and said something like "to be very honest with you, we are still in the very early days of compiling the new SAT scores and what they mean to our school.  We are going to be using the test results as an even smaller portion of our admissions process this year than we have ever before, and that is obviously only for the students who even choose to send in scores"

The school uses 4 choices for sending in test results

a) SAT's or

b) ACT's or

C) 2 SAT Subject Tests or

D) No Tests

He went on to say that last year, choice D) became a plurality for the first time since they introduced the test optional choice back in 2009.

That seems weird to me.   If you're not sending them in, my guess would be that you didn't do well.  I can't see how doing well and sending them in would hurt.   

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11 minutes ago, NutterButter said:

That seems weird to me.   If you're not sending them in, my guess would be that you didn't do well.  I can't see how doing well and sending them in would hurt.   

I think every test optional school is more than happy to have you send in the scores if you did well.  It only helps them in the rankings.

Remember that all the schools that are going test optional (the list grows every year) are getting some huge benefits out of it.

1) Because the kids who don't do well on the tests don't send them in, it automatically is raising their SAT average in the rankings of kids who apply.

2) Most schools who have gone test optional have seen their applicant pool grow significantly, which allows their acceptance rate to drop, again making them more favorable in the rankings.

=============================================

The schools try to hide this data and instead try to publicly portray that after years of study, they have found that the SAT tests have the least predictability on how well a student does in college.   Today the guy used the common line "we care significantly more about 4 years worth of work in high school and not 4 hours on a Saturday morning"

This may be true but I think the fact the colleges are also getting side benefits from this as mentioned above has something to do with it.

Of course this advantage will slowly dissipate as more and more schools start to use the methodology.

There are a ton of really good second tier schools who use test optional.   But no tier 1 (MIT, Ivey's, Cal Tech, Stanford etc) has yet.  It will be interesting to see which takes the leap first.

Edited by NewlyRetired

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On 9/28/2016 at 3:58 PM, HellToupee said:

I blame the education systems  that sell the fairytale . Kids that opt for community college first are treated like failures . I have no doubt a lot of people are on the hook for 50k+ a year schools

By whom?

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32 minutes ago, Judge Smails said:

By whom?

In my experience by other parents and kind of by high schools themselves.Now I've been through 3 different private HS . Its a shame. 

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We finished our Connecticut run today with a visit to Wesleyan (very impressive school). 

Wesleyan was really emphasizing the test optional nature of their school.

They had a 17.7% acceptance rate last year and of the students who ended up enrolling, more than 33% of the class did not pass in test scores.

The info session admin guy was even stronger in nature about the test optional nature of the school than the guy from Conn College yesterday.  He repeated 3 different times that not passing in test scores would not in any way be used as a negative mark against the student.  They will simply weigh the other parts of the application more (and like almost every school we have visited, he strongly emphasized the students transcript (school quality + grades + course load) is the biggest item they consider.

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1 hour ago, NewlyRetired said:

We finished our Connecticut run today with a visit to Wesleyan (very impressive school). 

Wesleyan was really emphasizing the test optional nature of their school.

They had a 17.7% acceptance rate last year and of the students who ended up enrolling, more than 33% of the class did not pass in test scores.

The info session admin guy was even stronger in nature about the test optional nature of the school than the guy from Conn College yesterday.  He repeated 3 different times that not passing in test scores would not in any way be used as a negative mark against the student.  They will simply weigh the other parts of the application more (and like almost every school we have visited, he strongly emphasized the students transcript (school quality + grades + course load) is the biggest item they consider.

My younger daughter, a junior in HS, visited Wesleyan in August and loved it.  We came away with this same impression re: the test optional aspect.  Definitely in her top 5 schools that she's visited thus far.

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42 minutes ago, The Dreaded Marco said:

My younger daughter, a junior in HS, visited Wesleyan in August and loved it.  We came away with this same impression re: the test optional aspect.  Definitely in her top 5 schools that she's visited thus far.

That is great!

It is very hard for my daughter to find things she can identify with at the various colleges we have visited so I was so happy to hear that her favorite writer/director (Joss Weadon) was an alumnus and they talked him up with some fun facts on the tour.

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I forgot to mention something.  

On our tour yesterday, the tour guide was explaining housing and that the bathrooms could be considered gender neutral depending on what the kids in the dorm floor vote on.

One poor mother of a girl was so horrified it was funny.

Personally, as a guy, I don't know how you can have a good dump knowing at any moment a nice young lady might walk in :)

Edited by NewlyRetired

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On 10/8/2016 at 4:32 PM, NewlyRetired said:

We finished our Connecticut run today with a visit to Wesleyan (very impressive school). 

Wesleyan was really emphasizing the test optional nature of their school.

They had a 17.7% acceptance rate last year and of the students who ended up enrolling, more than 33% of the class did not pass in test scores.

The info session admin guy was even stronger in nature about the test optional nature of the school than the guy from Conn College yesterday.  He repeated 3 different times that not passing in test scores would not in any way be used as a negative mark against the student.  They will simply weigh the other parts of the application more (and like almost every school we have visited, he strongly emphasized the students transcript (school quality + grades + course load) is the biggest item they consider.

How do they measure school quality?  Or is that just code that they prefer students from feeder, private high schools?

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On 10/7/2016 at 8:29 PM, NewlyRetired said:

I think every test optional school is more than happy to have you send in the scores if you did well.  It only helps them in the rankings.

Remember that all the schools that are going test optional (the list grows every year) are getting some huge benefits out of it.

1) Because the kids who don't do well on the tests don't send them in, it automatically is raising their SAT average in the rankings of kids who apply.

2) Most schools who have gone test optional have seen their applicant pool grow significantly, which allows their acceptance rate to drop, again making them more favorable in the rankings.

=============================================

The schools try to hide this data and instead try to publicly portray that after years of study, they have found that the SAT tests have the least predictability on how well a student does in college.   Today the guy used the common line "we care significantly more about 4 years worth of work in high school and not 4 hours on a Saturday morning"

This may be true but I think the fact the colleges are also getting side benefits from this as mentioned above has something to do with it.

Of course this advantage will slowly dissipate as more and more schools start to use the methodology.

There are a ton of really good second tier schools who use test optional.   But no tier 1 (MIT, Ivey's, Cal Tech, Stanford etc) has yet.  It will be interesting to see which takes the leap first.

I just don't see how the colleges can compare academic achievement across so many different high schools. 

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3 hours ago, James Daulton said:

How do they measure school quality?  Or is that just code that they prefer students from feeder, private high schools?

They did not say but I have read that some schools use their own history of seeing how previous students have achieved at their college from the specific high school.   I am sure they have various methods of slightly arbitrary measurements.  

 

Edited by NewlyRetired

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24 minutes ago, James Daulton said:

I just don't see how the colleges can compare academic achievement across so many different high schools. 

me neither.  I would think so many applications look so similar to each other.  It must be a very tough job to do fairly.

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So did the FAFSA and I guess I thought it would be more labor intensive. .I mean there were no questions about debts or mortgage payments which I thought there would be. It was just kind of how much we made and this is how much taxes were taken out--kind of blah and really doesn't allow for much tinkering.

So what does the EFC number really mean--is that total payment expected from us for the total cost of education for a 4 year school or is it per year?  Or is this amount that we could get in aid? It also showed an amount for Stafford loans at a small amount--is that per year or total as well? And is this amount in addition to what the school could give her?

Will that differ by school--I mean if that number is all I will owe total for 4 years is what the EFC number shows for my daughter to go to a school that costs 67k a year, yeah I am down with that vs. 280k.

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19 hours ago, Courtjester said:

So did the FAFSA and I guess I thought it would be more labor intensive. .I mean there were no questions about debts or mortgage payments which I thought there would be. It was just kind of how much we made and this is how much taxes were taken out--kind of blah and really doesn't allow for much tinkering.

 

I mentioned this earlier but the Fafsa is very easy to complete.   The CSS profile is significantly more in depth.  They want to know where every penny is.

 

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3 hours ago, NewlyRetired said:

I mentioned this earlier but the Fafsa is very easy to complete.   The CSS profile is significantly more in depth.  They want to know where every penny is.

 

 Is that required to do  or just something that is suggested? 

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