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The Jimmy Dore Show (2 Viewers)

No problem.  I find them very enlightening especially since I don't have time to keep up on the news. many of these are stories that should be getting covered but aren't.

 
Franknbeans said:
No problem.  I find them very enlightening especially since I don't have time to keep up on the news. many of these are stories that should be getting covered but aren't.
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The interview was nice.  He makes the argument that liberals are basically attacking Trump from the right.  He's not going hard enough on Russia, not arming neonazis in Ukraine hard enough, not bombing Assad hard enough.  There's really no actual liberal opposition or antiwar left anymore.  

 
Franknbeans said:
No problem.  I find them very enlightening especially since I don't have time to keep up on the news. many of these are stories that should be getting covered but aren't.
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Like the Seth Rich conspiracy theory that Dore was promoting?  

This guy is Alex Jones in the left.  

 
No, he isn't. I have the ability to distinguish for myself what is credible. To ignore many of his valid points because of one that is less substantive is lazy.

 
tommyGunZ said:
You consider his Seth Rich conspiracy crap “less substantive”?  It’s bat#### crazy, and a conspiracy created by conservatives to damage HRC.  Dore is an ### clown.  
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It's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.  He didn't promote a conspiracy at all.  He cited reporting credibly and asked honest questions, it wasn't a big deal.  

 
ren hoek said:
It's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.  He didn't promote a conspiracy at all.  He cited reporting credibly and asked honest questions, it wasn't a big deal.  
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I watched multiple episodes in which he peddled that crap.  Of course it’s not a big deal to those who buy into conspiracy theories - you guys never reflect on why the analysts you trust are constantly promoting crap that turns out to be completely false.  You simply move on to the next one.  

 
tommyGunZ said:
You consider his Seth Rich conspiracy crap “less substantive”?  It’s bat#### crazy, and a conspiracy created by conservatives to damage HRC.  Dore is an ### clown.  
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I honestly haven't followed that very closely.  I just saw a few of the questions he was asking about it. I don't think, even if he is dead wrong about that, it makes sense to ignore his other completely valid points. I have yet to hear a valid point from Alex Jones.

 
Franknbeans said:
I honestly haven't followed that very closely.  I just saw a few of the questions he was asking about it. I don't think, even if he is dead wrong about that, it makes sense to ignore his other completely valid points. I have yet to hear a valid point from Alex Jones.
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If someone is sympathetic to and amplifies insane and hurtful conspiracy theories related to politics, perhaps you should consider whether their other points related to politics are as valid as you think they are. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
If someone is sympathetic to and amplifies insane and hurtful conspiracy theories related to politics, perhaps you should consider whether their other points related to politics are as valid as you think they are. 
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and perhaps you should see for yourself.  It's time to get our heads out of the collective sand.

 
Franknbeans said:
and perhaps you should see for yourself.  It's time to get our heads out of the collective sand.
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I've listened to about 20 minutes of his comically oversimplified theories on the 2016 election, and a few minutes of him ranting about Dems' current messaging (incorrectly might I add- virtually every special election and 2018 Dem has focused on wages, inequality and health care). And with Tommy's prompting, I just read a transcript of his his irresponsible, idiotic comments on Seth Rich, which led me to read about some of his other more extreme and demonstrably false theories.

That's sufficient for me. There's far too much insightful, nuanced political reporting and commentary these days for me to listen to an arrogant stand-up comic/conspiracy theorist with no public service or political experience who spreads falsehoods and thinks he's got it all figured out.

I stayed out of this thread until I saw the Seth Rich stuff because I figured to each their own and there's plenty worse political media out there, plus I really like most of the posters here who seem to be fans and I didn't want to argue with them. But spreading conspiracy theories is harmful not just to the families directly affected but to all of us, because when people lose touch with reality they become much easier to manipulate.

 
Whatever, I think you're missing the boat but I reserve the right to be enlightened. I am just so tired of the right and left supporting the military complex and endless wars that we wage. He's dead on there.  As I already pointed out, I am not a proponent of the Seth Rich stuff because I haven't looked into it so I don't think I have ever made it a focus of any of my posts. I think if that is your only reason for not listening, then you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater but to each their own.

 
Franknbeans said:
Whatever, I think you're missing the boat but I reserve the right to be enlightened. I am just so tired of the right and left supporting the military complex and endless wars that we wage. He's dead on there.  As I already pointed out, I am not a proponent of the Seth Rich stuff because I haven't looked into it so I don't think I have ever made it a focus of any of my posts. I think if that is your only reason for not listening, then you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater but to each their own.
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I agree with you (and him, apparently) on our military engagements and the symbiotic relationship between the policymakers and the war-making industry. 

That said, I think I explained that my opposition is about a lot more than just the Seth Rich stuff.  From what I heard (admittedly limited) and have read, he says and does a lot of things I oppose, from oversimplification of the 2016 election that ignores the role of racial resentment and misogyny-stuff that we need to confront- to undermining political journalism, to spreading misinformation about Syria and a variety of other subjects according to the web page I linked before.

I think there's value in what I understand to be one of his underlying messages- that Dems need to focus on progressive messaging rather than Russia and other Trump scandal stuff that fascinates and infuriates coastal/political types but doesn't interest most other people. But the thing is, they're already doing that.  Anyone who is actually paying close attention to the messaging in the special elections and in the runup to 2018 would tell you that, and it's telling that, as far as I can tell, he seems to have missed that entirely in favor of railing against a boogeyman.

 
Well, he tends to focus on the mainstream media and the message they consistently send out which is damaging to establishing a progressive message.  The thing is, even among Trump voters, the progressive message should resonate.  I just think so many have their defenses up and tend to fall back into the old way of thinking about the role of our military industrial complex and how it impacts so many issues that people truly want and would support.  Unfortunately, the message is getting lost with all of the Russia stuff which Trump may very likely skate on, anyway.

 
Franknbeans said:
Well, he tends to focus on the mainstream media and the message they consistently send out which is damaging to establishing a progressive message.  The thing is, even among Trump voters, the progressive message should resonate.  I just think so many have their defenses up and tend to fall back into the old way of thinking about the role of our military industrial complex and how it impacts so many issues that people truly want and would support.  Unfortunately, the message is getting lost with all of the Russia stuff which Trump may very likely skate on, anyway.
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It's not the mainstream news media's job to fine-tune progressive messaging or to worry about it at all. The mainstream news media's job is to report on the important issues of the day and to provide a check on the rich and powerful in service of the republic.  Reporting on the Russia investigation and on the rampant corruption and incompetence of the Trump administration is exactly that.

I think there's a very obvious reason that Trump voters have opted for the Trump message instead of the progressive message, one that's supported by a number of studies, and anyone who ignores that very obvious reason is doing their audience and the country a disservice.

 
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