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ISPs to sell your internet history (1 Viewer)

On a scale of 1-5, how upset are you that your ISP will be able to sell your browsing data?

  • 1-Don't care at all

    Votes: 5 5.0%

  • 2-Care a little bit

    Votes: 10 10.0%

  • 3-I'm concerned about this

    Votes: 10 10.0%

  • 4-Very concerned

    Votes: 14 14.0%

  • 5-This is outrageous

    Votes: 61 61.0%
  • Total voters
    100
NewlyRetired said:
Note that there are some sites, like banks, that do not allow access from VPN's.   So you have to be aware that if you turn off the VPN to access some sites and you are using the router method, you are exposing your whole network.
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I don't know why banks wouldn't allow VPN, unless the VPN was showing your IP as in some other country or somehow prevented their encryption tunnel from working, which it shouldn't.

 
I think if the outrage spreads, and I can't imagine anyone regardless of political leanings being happy about this, it could be the GOP's majority undoing. 

This is quietly being swept under the rug, but there will be a lot of anger here.

 
Privacy Is Dead - Get Over It

When the Steve Rambam talk at HOPE Number Six was disrupted by his arrest minutes before he was scheduled to go on stage, we vowed to make sure it would one day be presented to the public. That day occurred on Thursday, November 16, 2006. HOPE Number Six finally came to an end with a three hour talk at the Stevens Institute in Hoboken, New Jersey that focused on just how much information on each of us is readily accessible to virtually anyone. Steve also revealed all of the information he was able to find on a volunteer "victim" and answered all sorts of questions from the standing room only audience, including what really happened back in July.
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One of the most interesting talks I've ever heard on the subject.  Definitely worth the listen.  Keep in mind this talk was given 11 years ago; before 9/11, before the Patriot Act, before the NSA, Snowden and all that.  It's a 1000 times worse now.

Privacy Is Dead - Get Over It Revisited

Search the page for Privacy Is Dead - Get Over It Revisited by Steven Rambam.  There are three MP3s you can download to listen to.

 
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Another fun browser focused privacy enhancer is trackmenot. It only hits search engines, but the random traffic alone will help generate more noise to make your data less meaningful.

 
Poke_4_Life said:
I don't know why banks wouldn't allow VPN, unless the VPN was showing your IP as in some other country or somehow prevented their encryption tunnel from working, which it shouldn't.
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I would think a VPN would provide cover for a hacker who wants to steal account info or actually transfer cash.   This keeps some traceable means to try to track a culprit. 

 
fantasycurse42 said:
I think if the outrage spreads, and I can't imagine anyone regardless of political leanings being happy about this, it could be the GOP's majority undoing. 

This is quietly being swept under the rug, but there will be a lot of anger here.
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People are so used to having their privacy stolen there will be only limited outrage.   It should be a bigger issue, but unfortunately it is not. 

 
jon_mx said:
People are so used to having their privacy stolen there will be only limited outrage.   It should be a bigger issue, but unfortunately it is not. 
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I disagree.

There is always a line in the sand that people will say "this is too much!"

I'm confident this is it - for me, as mentioned, I'm an Independent... & honestly as I've aged a little, I've leaned slightly more right than left, but remained fairly neutral - I'll be voting down the ticket Democrat moving forward until this is addressed, I feel my stance here is more the norm than outlier - a few ####### lobbyists and some #######s in DC have made me do this. 

This will cost the GOP.

 
For a fairly balanced site of right/left/independent, we're now at 75% very concerned/outraged on this topic. 

If the Dems are smart, they'll push this aggressively and take back a lot of seats.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
For a fairly balanced site of right/left/independent, we're now at 75% very concerned/outraged on this topic. 

If the Dems are smart, they'll push this aggressively and take back a lot of seats.
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Most people who understand this kind of stuff were already leaning or voting Dem. Dems should push this aggressively because it's a big deal, not to win votes. 

 
is no one going to mention that this is already allowed by law, and ALWAYS has been allowed by law? The Obama admin proposed some new regs that would ban it, but they never took effect.

this isn't something new.

Vox explainer

 
zed2283 said:
This was on 60 Minutes three years ago:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/data-brokers-selling-personal-information-60-minutes/
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RC94 said:
Block dot because I want to read through this thread when I have time later.
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oso diablo said:
is no one going to mention that this is already allowed by law, and ALWAYS has been allowed by law? The Obama admin proposed some new regs that would ban it, but they never took effect.

this isn't something new.

Vox explainer
Click to expand...


fantasycurse42 said:
I disagree.

There is always a line in the sand that people will say "this is too much!"

I'm confident this is it - for me, as mentioned, I'm an Independent... & honestly as I've aged a little, I've leaned slightly more right than left, but remained fairly neutral - I'll be voting down the ticket Democrat moving forward until this is addressed, I feel my stance here is more the norm than outlier - a few ####### lobbyists and some #######s in DC have made me do this. 

This will cost the GOP.
Click to expand...


Seriously, spend just a little time maybe just the first hour of the talk below if you're too busy.  This ship has sailed.  Doesn't matter what the ISPs decide to suddenly do, the people we've interacted with the past 15 years have already done it: Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Apple, Facebook et al.  It doesn't matter what laws are enacted, we've already given up our rights with all the terms of service agreements we've blindly agreed to.  

tonydead said:
Oooooh!  Here is another talk from Steven Rambam at Hope 11 just last year.  I haven't listened to this one, can't wait!  Search his name to get to talk info and download link.
Click to expand...

 
oso diablo said:
is no one going to mention that this is already allowed by law, and ALWAYS has been allowed by law? The Obama admin proposed some new regs that would ban it, but they never took effect.

this isn't something new.

Vox explainer
Click to expand...
:lol:   I guess we should have been outraged all along.   

 
tonydead said:
Seriously, spend just a little time maybe just the first hour of the talk below if you're too busy.  This ship has sailed.  Doesn't matter what the ISPs decide to suddenly do, the people we've interacted with the past 15 years have already done it: Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Apple, Facebook et al.  It doesn't matter what laws are enacted, we've already given up our rights with all the terms of service agreements we've blindly agreed to.  
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The telco companies already have almost all of it to begin with, but there was red tape standing in front of them selling it, not there anymore. Furthermore, the data those companies above are collecting and selling doesn't go down to a URL level (outside of their own entities), that cross the boundaries to extreme invasion of privacy IMO - it's just too much. Your provider sees everything and it is now going to be accessible, they see 100x what the above companies do. 

 
tonydead said:
Seriously, spend just a little time maybe just the first hour of the talk below if you're too busy.  This ship has sailed.  Doesn't matter what the ISPs decide to suddenly do, the people we've interacted with the past 15 years have already done it: Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Apple, Facebook et al.  It doesn't matter what laws are enacted, we've already given up our rights with all the terms of service agreements we've blindly agreed to.  
Click to expand...
Hey yeah, you really have no idea what you're talking about.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
The telco companies already have almost all of it to begin with, but there was red tape standing in front of them selling it, not there anymore. Furthermore, the data those companies above are collecting and selling doesn't go down to a URL level (outside of their own entities), that cross the boundaries to extreme invasion of privacy IMO - it's just too much. Your provider sees everything and it is now going to be accessible, they see 100x what the above companies do. 
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Oh yes it does.  

 
massraider said:
Hey yeah, you really have no idea what you're talking about.
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That's not a very effective argument.  I suppose you know more than this guy?:

Steven Rambam is the founder and CEO of Pallorium, Inc., a licensed Investigative Agency with offices and affiliates worldwide. 

Pallorium maintains U.S. offices and affiliates in Texas, Louisiana, California, Florida and New York.

Since 1981, Pallorium's investigators have successfully closed more than 10,500 cases, ranging from homicide and death claim investigations to missing persons cases to the investigation of various types of sophisticated financial and insurance frauds. 

Pallorium's online subsidiary, PallTech (www.palltech.us), offers access to nearly eight hundred (800) data sources, and to seven (7) major proprietary databases, and provides online investigative support services to 2,800 investigative and law enforcement agencies. DataVerification.Net, a custom web portal owned and operated by PallTech, provides specialized identity verification and underwriting solutions to the insurance industry.
Click to expand...

 
fantasycurse42 said:
None of these companies are currently selling URL level data beyond their own entities, I will wager 10 gazillion dollars on it with you.
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They have the MAC address to every device you've ever used and make no mistake about it; it has been sold, traded and hacked.

 
tonydead said:
They have the MAC address to every device you've ever used and make no mistake about it; it has been sold, traded and hacked.
Click to expand...
Look, there are always shady things happening, but the overwhelming majority of brand managers at Fortune 500 companies have been there for a healthy amount of time and aren't going to risk their cushy jobs on something that has been illegal. With laws changing, they'll adapt.

AppNexus, Bluekai, The TradeDesk, Triple Lift, Xaxis, DataXu, DBM, MediaMath, etc. etc. I could name 100 of these companies, I deal with them daily, they collectively buy billions of dollars of media for marketers or sell endless data. I know the data they have available - the overwhelming majority of it is some sort of behavioral data, demo data, etc. It is mostly blended, and TBH not that great either. 

Are you aware of what is happening with Google right now? Quite a few Fortune 100 companies have pulled all ad spend out of their programmatic platform this quarter (I'm talking 100's of millions of dollars) because ads were showing up next to inappropriate content. Google will fix this and get that money back, but that is how sensitive these brand managers are - they won't put their ads next to inappropriate content, yet alone do things that are illegal and put themselves personally at risk. If it came back to a company, the person pulling the levers would be the scapegoat, they'd be blackballed too - it isn't worth it for them.

So sure, maybe Joe Schmoe at a very small tiny scale might be trying with little success to do this, but even that I remain skeptical about. 

You have your opinion, I have mine. I deal with this #### on a daily basis, I can't argue it anymore.  

 
fantasycurse42 said:
Look, there are always shady things happening, but the overwhelming majority of brand managers at Fortune 500 companies have been there for a healthy amount of time and aren't going to risk their cushy jobs on something that has been illegal. With laws changing, they'll adapt.

AppNexus, Bluekai, The TradeDesk, Triple Lift, Xaxis, DataXu, DBM, MediaMath, etc. etc. I could name 100 of these companies, I deal with them daily, they collectively buy billions of dollars of media for marketers or sell endless data. I know the data they have available - the overwhelming majority of it is some sort of behavioral data, demo data, etc. It is mostly blended, and TBH not that great either. 

Are you aware of what is happening with Google right now? Quite a few Fortune 100 companies have pulled all ad spend out of their programmatic platform this quarter (I'm talking 100's of millions of dollars) because ads were showing up next to inappropriate content. Google will fix this and get that money back, but that is how sensitive these brand managers are - they won't put their ads next to inappropriate content, yet alone do things that are illegal and put themselves personally at risk. If it came back to a company, the person pulling the levers would be the scapegoat, they'd be blackballed too - it isn't worth it for them.

So sure, maybe Joe Schmoe at a very small tiny scale might be trying with little success to do this, but even that I remain skeptical about. 

You have your opinion, I have mine. I deal with this #### on a daily basis, I can't argue it anymore.  
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You deal with this every day and your worst fear is the ISPs being able to sell your information?  That is mind blowing.  

ETA: And you think the way you vote is going to make a difference.  Even more mind blowing.

 
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tonydead said:
You deal with this every day and your worst fear is the ISPs being able to sell your information?  That is mind blowing.  
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I gave an example earlier in the thread about how data is being heavily utilized now, I have no issue with that. 

I take issue with a telecommunication provider who I am paying for their services, then taking my personal info at a site level URL stuff to sell - that officially crosses my line from okay to not okay. 

Google, different story, they want to sell my behavior, I know this going in while using their offerings free of charge, big difference.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
I also think a lot of people are blind to how much data telecommunications companies already have on you including all things location based. Now they basically have everything (they already did, actually - but now they can sell it with nothing getting in the way) - they obviously saw this coming with all the media company acquisitions they've been making. 
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Saw it coming? They bought it.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
I gave an example earlier in the thread about how data is being heavily utilized now, I have no issue with that. 

I take issue with a telecommunication provider who I am paying for their services, then taking my personal info at a site level URL stuff to sell - that officially crosses my line from okay to not okay. 

Google, different story, they want to sell my behavior, I know this going in while using their offerings free of charge, big difference.
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I hear you.  To me it's just a strange line to draw since your privacy is dead anyway.  

 
AT&T, Verizon and Comcast announce they will not sell customer browsing history:

Reuters Article

By David Shepardson | WASHINGTON
Comcast Corp, Verizon Communications Inc and AT&T Inc said Friday they would not sell customers’ individual internet browsing information, days after the U.S. Congress approved legislation reversing Obama administration era internet privacy rules.

The bill would repeal regulations adopted in October by the Federal Communications Commission under former President Barack Obama requiring internet service providers to do more to protect customers' privacy than websites like Alphabet Inc's Google or Facebook Inc.

The easing of restrictions has sparked growing anger on social media sites.

"We do not sell our broadband customers’ individual web browsing history. We did not do it before the FCC’s rules were adopted, and we have no plans to do so," said Gerard Lewis, Comcast's chief privacy officer.

He added Comcast is revising its privacy policy to make more clear that "we do not sell our customers’ individual web browsing information to third parties."

Verizon does not sell personal web browsing histories and has no plans to do so in the future, said spokesman Richard Young.

Verizon privacy officer Karen Zacharia said in a blog post Friday the company has two programs that use customer browsing data. One allows marketers to access "de-identified information to determine which customers fit into groups that advertisers are trying to reach" while the other "provides aggregate insights that might be useful for advertisers and other businesses."

Republicans in Congress Tuesday narrowly passed the repeal of the rules with no Democratic support and over the objections of privacy advocates.

The vote was a win for internet providers such as AT&T Inc, Comcast and Verizon. Websites are governed by a less restrictive set of privacy rules.

The White House said Wednesday that President Donald Trump plans to sign the repeal of the rules, which had not taken effect.

Under the rules, internet providers would have needed to obtain consumer consent before using precise geolocation, financial information, health information, children's information and web browsing history for advertising and marketing. Websites do not need the same affirmative consent.

Some in Congress suggested providers would begin selling personal data to the highest bidder, while others vowed to raise money to buy browsing histories of Republicans.


ALSO IN TECHNOLOGY NEWS


AT&T says in its privacy statement it "will not sell your personal information to anyone, for any purpose. Period." In a blog post Friday, AT&T said it would not change those policies after Trump signs the repeal.

Websites and internet service providers do use and sell aggregated customer data to advertisers. Republicans say the rules unfairly would give websites the ability to harvest more data than internet providers.

Trade group USTelecom CEO Jonathan Spalter said in an op-ed Friday for website Axios that individual "browser history is already being aggregated and sold to advertising networks - by virtually every site you visit on the internet."

This week, 46 Senate Democrats urged Trump not to sign the bill, arguing most Americans "believe that their private information should be just that."

(Reporting by David Shepardson; Editing by Cynthia Osterman and Lisa Shumaker)

 
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