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Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news (4 Viewers)

It's amazing how many people are putting their own meaning on Brees' words.  It's not surprising it's happening in this thread but it's surprising normally intelligent people are trying to dictate to Brees how he should think instead of recognizing that reasonable people can disagree about the flag and it doesn't mean Brees is against the cause.  But par for the course with the lefties you either see it exactly their way or they attack.  Gee, I wonder why the country has such a listening problem.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
It's amazing how many people are putting their own meaning on Brees' words.  It's not surprising it's happening in this thread but it's surprising normally intelligent people are trying to dictate to Brees how he should think instead of recognizing that reasonable people can disagree about the flag and it doesn't mean Brees is against the cause.  But par for the course with the lefties you either see it exactly their way or they attack.  Gee, I wonder why the country has such a listening problem.
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I'm not sure how people are putting their own spin on Brees' words. Brees said he will never agree with anybody disrespecting the flag - in response to a question about Kaepernick.

So he's wrong. Kaep did not disrespect the flag. 

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
It's amazing how many people are putting their own meaning on Brees' words.  It's not surprising it's happening in this thread but it's surprising normally intelligent people are trying to dictate to Brees how he should think instead of recognizing that reasonable people can disagree about the flag and it doesn't mean Brees is against the cause.  But par for the course with the lefties you either see it exactly their way or they attack.  Gee, I wonder why the country has such a listening problem.
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I didn't watch the interview, did Brees offer any suggestions for what would be an acceptable protest in his eyes? Since he appears to be against a peaceful protest and I assume he isn't a fan of the riots either, I'd hope he'd give them a good alternative way to protest and be very vocal in support of their cause if he truly cares about it.

 
Bucsfan5493 said:
I didn't watch the interview, did Brees offer any suggestions for what would be an acceptable protest in his eyes? Since he appears to be against a peaceful protest and I assume he isn't a fan of the riots either, I'd hope he'd give them a good alternative way to protest and be very vocal in support of their cause if he truly cares about it.
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I don't know.  I'm not getting into your word salad.  No idea why you think he's against a peaceful protest that's a huge leap so good luck with that one.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
It's amazing how many people are putting their own meaning on Brees' words.  It's not surprising it's happening in this thread but it's surprising normally intelligent people are trying to dictate to Brees how he should think instead of recognizing that reasonable people can disagree about the flag and it doesn't mean Brees is against the cause.  But par for the course with the lefties you either see it exactly their way or they attack.  Gee, I wonder why the country has such a listening problem.
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That’s the problem with discussing politics  from 2015 on.

You either agree with the other side 100% or you’re bad.  You’re racist.  You’re homophobic.  You’re a sinner condemned to hell.

There used to be a middle ground.  I can agree with some of your points and not others.

It’s ok to disagree with kneeling during the pledge of allegiance or national anthem.  It doesn’t default make you a racist.

Bad things have been happening to our black citizens since the beginning of America.  That doesn’t mean we’re against them if we disagree with something they do or say.

 
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Bucsfan5493 said:
I didn't watch the interview, did Brees offer any suggestions for what would be an acceptable protest in his eyes? Since he appears to be against a peaceful protest and I assume he isn't a fan of the riots either, I'd hope he'd give them a good alternative way to protest and be very vocal in support of their cause if he truly cares about it.
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He gave 1 thing he didn’t support when asked about someone kneeling during the flag.  That doesn’t mean he’s opposed to peaceful protesting.

Would be too simple to accept his words at face value and not spin it to be pissed off.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I strongly support the right of people to burn the flag if they want, but I think it's kind of a #### move.  It's also counter-productive in the sense that as soon as you start burning the flag, whatever message you thought you were sending is going to get overwhelmed by the whole why-are-you-burning-the-flag angle.

To Brees and a lot of other people, protesting during the national anthem is a less extreme version of flag burning.  And it got the same response.  CK's attempt to raise awareness about police brutality just turned into a debate about freedom of speech, what's acceptable speech, the rights of employees to speak on their employer's dime, etc.  The whole police brutality thing took a back seat to all the second-order issues.  There's a reason why the (peaceful) protesters are moving the needle on this issue and CK didn't.
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I agree.  Also as I stated before the protest needs to be progressive and not piggyback off of the flag or NA as that distorts the whole conversation and loses the intended message.  Why not every team player when they come out for warmups all take a knee together in a moment of silence and refection?  Then they get their message across without it getting muddled up with military and the NA.

 
jm192 said:
He gave 1 thing he didn’t support when asked about someone kneeling during the flag.  That doesn’t mean he’s opposed to peaceful protesting.

Would be too simple to accept his words at face value and not spin it to be pissed off.
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Whoah!! You need to seriously stop this---you are making way too much sense. That is not allowed in the PSF. 

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
I don't know.  I'm not getting into your word salad.  No idea why you think he's against a peaceful protest that's a huge leap so good luck with that one.
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I said he's against a peaceful protest, which is what taking a knee is. You're doing what you just accused the people trashing Brees of. I never said he was against all peaceful protests, I don't think anyone doesn't support peaceful protests. Unfortunately though, we've seen just standing out in the street protesting peacefully does not get the job done so I want to hear what Brees has in mind for a protest that he'll approve of that can help spread awareness and lead to change.

 
jm192 said:
He gave 1 thing he didn’t support when asked about someone kneeling during the flag.  That doesn’t mean he’s opposed to peaceful protesting.

Would be too simple to accept his words at face value and not spin it to be pissed off.
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You just did the same exact thing you're accusing me of. I never said Brees was against all peaceful protests. I said he was against a peaceful protest, which is taking a knee.

 
Bucsfan5493 said:
I said he's against a peaceful protest, which is what taking a knee is. You're doing what you just accused the people trashing Brees of. I never said he was against all peaceful protests, I don't think anyone doesn't support peaceful protests. Unfortunately though, we've seen just standing out in the street protesting peacefully does not get the job done so I want to hear what Brees has in mind for a protest that he'll approve of that can help spread awareness and lead to change.
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No he's against kneelling for the anthem.  He's never said he's against peaceful protest.   

 
Bucsfan5493 said:
You just did the same exact thing you're accusing me of. I never said Brees was against all peaceful protests. I said he was against a peaceful protest, which is taking a knee.
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You asked if he gave an example of what was acceptable.  Why would he?  He was asked specifically about one thing.  He answered.  He wasn’t trying to give a monologue on protests.

 
jm192 said:
Well...

Brees is racist because he doesn’t agree with every form of protest.

Davenport defended Brees.

So Davenport is racist.
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I haven't seen anyone in here calling Brees a racist.

I think Brees is a very good person overall, as shown by his presence in the New Orleans community and all the money he has donated in the past. I simply just disagree with him and expect more out of a guy like him.

 
Kaepernick didn't disrespect the flag. It's his right to express himself as he chooses. But that doesn't mean everyone is required to like it.

What he did do was take the five minutes that all of us can stand together and say "We're Americans" and he made it about himself and what he's interested in.

He's like the family member that shows up at a wedding and wants to air the family's dirty laundry.

"Well where is he SUPPOSED to protest?" I'd say somewhere that he has a chance at "starting a conversation" rather than picking a fight.

I don't understand how anyone could reasonably think that his chosen method would result in anything other than blowback from the very people he's trying to reach.

 
Bucsfan5493 said:
I haven't seen anyone in here calling Brees a racist.

I think Brees is a very good person overall, as shown by his presence in the New Orleans community and all the money he has donated in the past. I simply just disagree with him and expect more out of a guy like him.
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 Right, you expect him to agree with everything you think. To me that’s the biggest problem with discussing politics.  Brees is from a military family. That is part of his identity. He’s not saying he supports the clan. But you’re upset with him because he was asked a question and gave an honest answer. 

There’s really no sense in this course. It’s not even discourse. It’s do you agree with me or are you an a**hole?

 
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Andy Dufresne said:
Kaepernick didn't disrespect the flag. It's his right to express himself as he chooses. But that doesn't mean everyone is required to like it.

What he did do was take the five minutes that all of us can stand together and say "We're Americans" and he made it about himself and what he's interested in.

He's like the family member that shows up at a wedding and wants to air the family's dirty laundry.

"Well where is he SUPPOSED to protest?" I'd say somewhere that he has a chance at "starting a conversation" rather than picking a fight.

I don't understand how anyone could reasonably think that his chosen method would result in anything other than blowback from the very people he's trying to reach.
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But that's not what Brees said. That's a separate argument. Brees said he doesn't agree with anyone disrespecting the flag - i.e., Kaepernick.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
No he's against kneeling for the anthem.  He's never said he's against peaceful protest.   
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I understand that but kneeling for the anthem is a peaceful protest, regardless of what Brees thinks of it. The people taking a knee are not doing it to disrespect the flag or other people, they are doing it to bring awareness to racial injustice and police brutality. Therefore, since Brees does not support taking a knee during the anthem, he is against that kind of peaceful protest even though he might not want it to come off that way.

 
squistion said:
So...he's not against peaceful protests provided that does not include kneeling for the anthem? Okie Dokie.  :loco:
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He was asked a question about kneeling for the anthem. He was not asked a question about peaceful protests. You’re making your own inferences now because it gives you something to be mad about

 
squistion said:
So...he's not against peaceful protests provided that does not include kneeling for the anthem? Okie Dokie.  :loco:
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:wall:

Correct me if I'm wrong but is he even trying to stop his teammates (or anyone else) from kneeling?  All I saw was he said he disagrees with it.  You're proving my point that you either agree with the liberal view or you're wrong.  No wonder there's a communication issue in the world.  

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Kaepernick didn't disrespect the flag. It's his right to express himself as he chooses. But that doesn't mean everyone is required to like it.

What he did do was take the five minutes that all of us can stand together and say "We're Americans" and he made it about himself and what he's interested in.

He's like the family member that shows up at a wedding and wants to air the family's dirty laundry.

"Well where is he SUPPOSED to protest?" I'd say somewhere that he has a chance at "starting a conversation" rather than picking a fight.

I don't understand how anyone could reasonably think that his chosen method would result in anything other than blowback from the very people he's trying to reach.
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There have been conversations about racism and police brutality for decades. We didn't need another conversation.

 
jm192 said:
You asked if he gave an example of what was acceptable.  Why would he?  He was asked specifically about one thing.  He answered.  He wasn’t trying to give a monologue on protests.
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Fair enough. Given the riots we've seen over the past week a lot of people have been saying we should just protest peacefully instead. Since he isn't a fan of kneeling, I was just thinking maybe he could offer an idea up that would be acceptable in his mind because I think the vast majority of people are in support of at least some form of protest and want to see change. I would assume Brees is apart of that group too.

 
the moops said:
There have been conversations about racism and police brutality for decades. We didn't need another conversation.
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You’re missing his point then.

Kneeling during the anthem wasn’t going to overturn centuries of systemic racism.  It wasn’t going to make a dent. 

There are other ways to bring about change.

 
Bucsfan5493 said:
Fair enough. Given the riots we've seen over the past week a lot of people have been saying we should just protest peacefully instead. Since he isn't a fan of kneeling, I was just thinking maybe he could offer an idea up that would be acceptable in his mind because I think the vast majority of people are in support of at least some form of protest and want to see change. I would assume Brees is apart of that group too.
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I don’t think being against kneeling means that he is against other forms of peaceful protest.

He wasn’t asked about forms of protests.  He was asked about kneeling for the anthem.

And honestly I would think people would find it patronizing if he listed off what he would approve.  Who the hell is he to say “this is the approved list of activities.”

He was asked about kneeling during the anthem, he gave his two cents.

 
jm192 said:
 Right, you expect him to agree with everything you think. To me that’s the biggest problem with discussing politics.  Brees is from a military family. That is part of his identity. He’s not saying he supports the clan. But you’re upset with him because he was asked a question and gave an honest answer. 

There’s really no sense in this course. It’s not even discourse. It’s do you agree with me or are you an a**hole?
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I'm not saying that at all man... I literally said in a post or two above that I think Brees is a good guy. I don't understand what's so bad about losing a bit of respect for someone who values the flag/anthem over bringing awareness to racial injustice and police brutality. I completely understand that Brees is from a military background and why he might lean towards being more protective of the flag, but there are plenty of vets who support kneeling. Hell, Kap literally asked a Green Beret what his thoughts on it were and he suggested kneeling. I think Brees has good intentions and is an overall good person, I simply think he's being a bit ignorant here and isn't using his platform to promote positive change in this instance.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Kaepernick didn't disrespect the flag. It's his right to express himself as he chooses. But that doesn't mean everyone is required to like it.

What he did do was take the five minutes that all of us can stand together and say "We're Americans" and he made it about himself and what he's interested in.

He's like the family member that shows up at a wedding and wants to air the family's dirty laundry.

"Well where is he SUPPOSED to protest?" I'd say somewhere that he has a chance at "starting a conversation" rather than picking a fight.

I don't understand how anyone could reasonably think that his chosen method would result in anything other than blowback from the very people he's trying to reach.
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I'm calling bull####. He wore a Castro shirt in Miami....was that disrespectful too? cmon man just stop. He knows exactly what he's doing.

 
jm192 said:
I don’t think being against kneeling means that he is against other forms of peaceful protest.

He wasn’t asked about forms of protests.  He was asked about kneeling for the anthem.

And honestly I would think people would find it patronizing if he listed off what he would approve.  Who the hell is he to say “this is the approved list of activities.”

He was asked about kneeling during the anthem, he gave his two cents.
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I agree, I don't think he is against other forms of peaceful protesting either. However, just marching in the street hasn't led to any change in the past so something else needs to be done. If Brees really doesn't want to support kneeling but cares about the movement, I would think he would offer up more solutions or at least what he plans to do to help contribute.

 
Bucsfan5493 said:
I'm not saying that at all man... I literally said in a post or two above that I think Brees is a good guy. I don't understand what's so bad about losing a bit of respect for someone who values the flag/anthem over bringing awareness to racial injustice and police brutality. I completely understand that Brees is from a military background and why he might lean towards being more protective of the flag, but there are plenty of vets who support kneeling. Hell, Kap literally asked a Green Beret what his thoughts on it were and he suggested kneeling. I think Brees has good intentions and is an overall good person, I simply think he's being a bit ignorant here and isn't using his platform to promote positive change in this instance.
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I’m guessing it’s not a flag or an anthem to him.  It’s his family.  

He didnt say people can’t or shouldn’t do it.  He said he didn’t agree with it.

 
Bucsfan5493 said:
I'm not saying that at all man... I literally said in a post or two above that I think Brees is a good guy. I don't understand what's so bad about losing a bit of respect for someone who values the flag/anthem over bringing awareness to racial injustice and police brutality. I completely understand that Brees is from a military background and why he might lean towards being more protective of the flag, but there are plenty of vets who support kneeling. Hell, Kap literally asked a Green Beret what his thoughts on it were and he suggested kneeling. I think Brees has good intentions and is an overall good person, I simply think he's being a bit ignorant here and isn't using his platform to promote positive change in this instance.
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So if someone disagrees with you they’re not an ahole, they’re just ignorant?

 
I think a big problem in America today is we care what athletes think versus making up our own minds.  Just because someone can hit a ball further than I can doesn't mean his thoughts on government are superior.  I don't mind athletes speaking out, that's their right, but it doesn't mean that they are correct or should carry any more weight than any other citizen.  ESPN is full of this stuff these days, it's hard to find info on your team or league info because over half the headline spots are taken up with political headlines.  

 
Bucsfan5493 said:
I'm not saying that at all man... I literally said in a post or two above that I think Brees is a good guy. I don't understand what's so bad about losing a bit of respect for someone who values the flag/anthem over bringing awareness to racial injustice and police brutality. I completely understand that Brees is from a military background and why he might lean towards being more protective of the flag, but there are plenty of vets who support kneeling. Hell, Kap literally asked a Green Beret what his thoughts on it were and he suggested kneeling. I think Brees has good intentions and is an overall good person, I simply think he's being a bit ignorant here and isn't using his platform to promote positive change in this instance.
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Brees identity is an American from a military family.  So your stance seems to be he has to let go of his identity and family to support racial equality—and that’s absurd.  He can keep his identity and support in other ways.

At the end of the day, he didn’t give the answer that people wanted to get.  And if we’re going get mad when someone doesn’t give the right answer—don’t ask the questions.  Just tell Brees what to say.

 
jm192 said:
I’m guessing it’s not a flag or an anthem to him.  It’s his family.  

He didnt say people can’t or shouldn’t do it.  He said he didn’t agree with it.
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I'm sure he does, he all but said that in the clip I saw where he referenced his Grandpa.

And I understand that last part, but if he finds kneeling disrespectful, I'm assuming he thinks a little less of the people who are doing so. Similar to me for the people who are against kneeling, it is what it is. Like I said, I don't think he's a bad person.

 
Bucsfan5493 said:
I'm sure he does, he all but said that in the clip I saw where he referenced his Grandpa.

And I understand that last part, but if he finds kneeling disrespectful, I'm assuming he thinks a little less of the people who are doing so. Similar to me for the people who are against kneeling, it is what it is. Like I said, I don't think he's a bad person.
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But now you’re drawing conclusions for things he didn’t say or imply.  He said he didn’t agree with it.

Most people are capable of disagreeing with someone and not losing respect for another person.

In the PSF, that’s not a thing. 

For what it’s worth, I DISAGREE with kneeling during the anthem but support anyone’s right to do so.  Soldiers went to war so you could be free, not so you could be free so long as you stood for the anthem.

 
whoknew said:
Of course it is. If I think the sky is green, I'm wrong.

If Brees thinks Kaep was disrespecting the flag, he's wrong.
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Notice how basically none of the conversation about CK actually involves police brutality.  It's all about whether it's unpatriotic or not.  You're doing it right here.

That's pretty much the epitome of an unproductive protest.  Contrast that with the people who have been in the streets peacefully the last week or so.

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
So if someone disagrees with you they’re not an ahole, they’re just ignorant?
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Not all the time, but in this case yes.

For example, I don't think people are ignorant regardless of what aisle they are on for abortion. I see both sides there. I just can't get behind the side of people who value a flag and song (even though it's a lot more than that to some people) more than bringing awareness to racial injustice and police brutality which has been a massive stain on our country for years.

 
Bucsfan5493 said:
Not all the time, but in this case yes.

For example, I don't think people are ignorant regardless of what aisle they are on for abortion. I see both sides there. I just can't get behind the side of people who value a flag and song (even though it's a lot more than that to some people) more than bringing awareness to racial injustice and police brutality which has been a massive stain on our country for years.
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Basically if someone disagrees with you, they’re ignorant and you lose respect for them.  This is why America is doomed.  No room for thoughts other than your own.  No room for conversation or discourse.

You’re right and everyone else is bad for thinking differently.

 
jm192 said:
Brees identity is an American from a military family.  So your stance seems to be he has to let go of his identity and family to support racial equality—and that’s absurd.  He can keep his identity and support in other ways.

At the end of the day, he didn’t give the answer that people wanted to get.  And if we’re going get mad when someone doesn’t give the right answer—don’t ask the questions.  Just tell Brees what to say.
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Again, he is free to do and think whatever he wants. That doesn't mean we have to respect his view on it. Just like he doesn't have to respect the view of people who kneel.

 
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