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Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news (2 Viewers)

Ramblin Wreck said:
Describe yourself.  You're dug in your thoughts on what Brees should view the flag as.   Kaepernick feels it's okay to kneel.  Brees thinks it's disrespectful.   Not sure where your issue is.

Is Brees trying to prevent someone from kneeling or just saying he doesn't agree with it?  Is Kaepernick, or anyone else, trying to force Brees to kneel?   
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I’ve acknowledged that I understand it means more to Brees than it does for me though. I respect that he has a military family and views it in a more sacred way.

What I have a problem with is when he implies that anyone taking a knee is disrespecting the flag or country.

“I will never agree with anybody disrespecting the flag of the USA or our country’’

Even if he feels that way, the people kneeling have made it very clear that’s not what they’re trying to do with the protest.

Brees is not saying here that he disagrees with kneeling, he’s saying he disagrees with people who disrespect the flag or country which people kneeling are not intending to do.

 
Bucsfan5493 said:
I’ve acknowledged that I understand it means more to Brees than it does for me though. I respect that he has a military family and views it in a more sacred way.

What I have a problem with is when he implies that anyone taking a knee is disrespecting the flag or country.

“I will never agree with anybody disrespecting the flag of the USA or our country’’

Even if he feels that way, the people kneeling have made it very clear that’s not what they’re trying to do with the protest.

Brees is not saying here that he disagrees with kneeling, he’s saying he disagrees with people who disrespect the flag or country which people kneeling are not intending to do.
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Then why are the people kneeling bent out of shape?  If they aren't disrespecting the flag then Brees has no issue with them?  I can't follow your logic to try to nail Brees here

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Well in the PSF people spend time trying to convince the other tribe to see it their way and it never works.  But in real life, reasonable minds can disagree on many subjects and it doesn't mean either one is ignorant, wrong, or stupid.  There's way too many people who believe their way of thinking is the ONLY right answer.   Wonder why there is such a divide in the country?
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Well said. I've found myself getting caught up in this way too much lately.

In this situation, like so many others, I think it's a mistake to feel the need to "agree or not". When the national anthem plays, people should react however they see fit.

When Drew Brees explains why he stands with hand to heart, man that makes a lot of sense, I can see why he would do that. When someone that kneels explains why they do that, that makes a lot of sense too, I can see why they'd do that.  

We can have our own beliefs, and that doesn't make others wrong. As you say, we've gotten way too far into thinking the way we think is the only right way.

I wish Brees would have just stated his beliefs without judging and misinterpreting others who see it differently. It's disappointing, and I hope he clarifies. 

 
Bucsfan5493 said:
That’s a great article and it definitely makes sense. Maybe ignorance is too strong of a word, but what word do we use then for someone who is so engrained in their beliefs that they can’t break away from them in the slightest even when they have been told over and over again that what the symbol represents to them, represents something entirely different to millions of people?
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But as you've told me...you're doing the same exact thing.  

It represents something else to Brees (and millions of others), but you're mad that he doesn't accept your representation.

 
Bucsfan5493 said:
I’ve acknowledged that I understand it means more to Brees than it does for me though. I respect that he has a military family and views it in a more sacred way.

What I have a problem with is when he implies that anyone taking a knee is disrespecting the flag or country.

“I will never agree with anybody disrespecting the flag of the USA or our country’’

Even if he feels that way, the people kneeling have made it very clear that’s not what they’re trying to do with the protest.

Brees is not saying here that he disagrees with kneeling, he’s saying he disagrees with people who disrespect the flag or country which people kneeling are not intending to do.
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But you have to realize.

Brees says something--you interpret what he says and draws conclusions.  You feel that you're allowed to make interpretations and conclusions.  You've said multiple times that actions speak louder than words.  

Some does something--kneeling--an action.  Brees interprets/concludes that that is disrespecting the flag.  He's made an interpretation or conclusion.  The same as you have.  He's bad because you don't like his.  

 
pollardsvision said:
Well said. I've found myself getting caught up in this way too much lately.

In this situation, like so many others, I think it's a mistake to feel the need to "agree or not". When the national anthem plays, people should react however they see fit.

When Drew Brees explains why he stands with hand to heart, man that makes a lot of sense, I can see why he would do that. When someone that kneels explains why they do that, that makes a lot of sense too, I can see why they'd do that.  

We can have our own beliefs, and that doesn't make others wrong. As you say, we've gotten way too far into thinking the way we think is the only right way.

I wish Brees would have just stated his beliefs without judging and misinterpreting others who see it differently. It's disappointing, and I hope he clarifies. 
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This is so spot on.

And that's the problem with Brees he didn't just state his belief he denigrated those that believe different.  Hopefully he is smart enough to see that.  

They are an interesting soap opera going into the season though.  I suspect their superbowl chances just went down the toilet.  This anger is not going to go cold

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Then why are the people kneeling bent out of shape?  If they aren't disrespecting the flag then Brees has no issue with them?  I can't follow your logic to try to nail Brees here
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Is that how Brees views it though? I believe that was his response to a question about how he feels about kneeling, which implies that he does view kneeling synonymously to disrespecting the flag.

 
jm192 said:
But as you've told me...you're doing the same exact thing.  

It represents something else to Brees (and millions of others), but you're mad that he doesn't accept your representation.
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That’s not what I’m mad about though. I respect that Brees has a different view of the flag than I do. I’m mad that he seems to be grouping in everyone who kneels as disrespecting the flag and country because that’s how he views it, without taking into consideration how others might. 

 
Bucsfan5493 said:
That’s not what I’m mad about though. I respect that Brees has a different view of the flag than I do. I’m mad that he seems to be grouping in everyone who kneels as disrespecting the flag and country because that’s how he views it, without taking into consideration how others might. 
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This to me, is the equivalent of, standing up in your office tomorrow and telling everyone you think anyone who wears blue is stupid.  Sure it's just your opinion but you don't think the people that like to wear blue aren't going to be affected by that comment?  Especially if you say you are the boss of the organization?  Your free to not like blue, but there is no reason not to accept that others do

 
jm192 said:
But you have to realize.

Brees says something--you interpret what he says and draws conclusions.  You feel that you're allowed to make interpretations and conclusions.  You've said multiple times that actions speak louder than words.  

Some does something--kneeling--an action.  Brees interprets/concludes that that is disrespecting the flag.  He's made an interpretation or conclusion.  The same as you have.  He's bad because you don't like his.  
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But Brees is associating kneeling and disrespecting the flag as being together just because that's the way he sees it in his eyes, while other's don't. My judgment of him is coming from him being closed-minded in that sense, not any actual action he is taking.

 
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Bucsfan5493 said:
You don’t have to prove anything to me. Actions speak louder than words though.
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Interesting comment. Brees has done more good for the largely African American community in NO than most people would even dream about. But one comment (I wonder how many people actually read the entire thing) and he's treated as some social outcast who doesnt understand anything. 

 
killface said:
Yes he did.  He put out there that if they do x then they are disrespecting the flag. They feel differently.  

This is communication 101.  He's taken the position of he's is right and everyone else is wrong - where there is two sides to the story.  
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He said he disagreed with anyone disrespecting the flag by kneeling.  It's okay for people to disagree.  If someone thinks kneeling is okay that's cool.   You guys are projecting a lot of stuff into Brees' comments but that's pretty typical these days.   If you're not with us then you're against us seems to be the theme

 
Former Saint Joe Horn speaks about Drew Brees' comments:

Former Saints receiver Joe Horn told Jeff Duncan of TheAthletic.com that people like LeBron James, who bashed Brees’ comments, should get to know Brees first.

“People should not be throwing Drew Brees under the bus, and they definitely need to pump the brakes on labeling him a racist,” Horn said. “I know Drew Brees. Drew has done a lot to help black families and the black community in New Orleans. If Drew Brees didn’t love black families and low-income families he wouldn’t have helped the way he has over the years. People that are criticizing him like LeBron James and other celebrities don’t know him. They need to check his resume. I love my race. And I love New Orleans to death. But I know Drew Brees. And Drew is a good person. And until you have walked beside him and gotten to know him, his wife and family, you definitely have to give him a pass on this one and allow Drew a chance to think about what he said and come back and make this right. And I know he will.”
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Cjw_55106 said:
Interesting comment. Brees has done more good for the largely African American community in NO than most people would even dream about. But one comment (I wonder how many people actually read the entire thing) and he's treated as some social outcast who doesnt understand anything. 
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I agree, some are going too far with the criticism of Brees. Calling him a racist or bad person is way too much given his prior actions and donations.

 
Cjw_55106 said:
Interesting comment. Brees has done more good for the largely African American community in NO than most people would even dream about. But one comment (I wonder how many people actually read the entire thing) and he's treated as some social outcast who doesnt understand anything. 
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:goodposting:

 
I'm proud of Drew, he handled it fine today. He accepted responsibility and sought to correct it. He's the best example of leadership this city has seen.... since... I don't know, must have been decades. We have been in decline for so long politically, economically. He'll rebond with his team and this city. 

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
He said he disagreed with anyone disrespecting the flag by kneeling.  It's okay for people to disagree.  If someone thinks kneeling is okay that's cool.   You guys are projecting a lot of stuff into Brees' comments but that's pretty typical these days.   If you're not with us then you're against us seems to be the theme
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I'm not projecting anything onto his comments - i don't care what anyone thinks of what happens during the national anthem.  No skin off my back.  Kneel, dance, sing, do handstand...i don't give a crap

That being said, its communications 101.  We are one of the most passionate moments in recent US history and the way he worded it is extremely tone deaf considering he knows that this is a very large issue for some of his team mates.  He doesn't have to care that he pissed them off.  He  doesn't have to care about his opinion.  That's all on him.  But i understand why they would take those comments and be pissed back at him

And I like Brees, I think he's a good guy overall

 
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Acceptance of responsibility and ownership of beliefs is something that our American society has lost track of, to our detriment. This whole manic, borg-like behavior where we destroy people for their basic statements is so destructive. I think it's an effect of the swarm like nature of social media and the way social media is in every thread of our social fabric.

 
Wow...I saw the twitter post from Drew which linked to the Instagram.  Looking through the replies/comments is really telling on just how divided people are.  It is difficult to see a path to unity looking through the rubble. 

 
Galileo said:
Wow...I saw the twitter post from Drew which linked to the Instagram.  Looking through the replies/comments is really telling on just how divided people are.  It is difficult to see a path to unity looking through the rubble. 
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Yeah...I see that in comments to just about every twitter post or news story.  Even things you would think people could agree on.  Comments to stories are just some of the worst things out there.

 
Cjw_55106 said:
Interesting comment. Brees has done more good for the largely African American community in NO than most people would even dream about. But one comment (I wonder how many people actually read the entire thing) and he's treated as some social outcast who doesnt understand anything. 
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That’s why this whole thing right now is so incredibly bizarre. I believe this has the potential to lose the NFL a lot of fans. 

 
Galileo said:
Wow...I saw the twitter post from Drew which linked to the Instagram.  Looking through the replies/comments is really telling on just how divided people are.  It is difficult to see a path to unity looking through the rubble. 
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It is what it is ... Brees can't control what people think about him. He just has to do the best he can do as a human being, moment by moment.

The Instagram apology was a good first step. If he were not an NFL quarterback and not part of a team with many African-American members, maybe that apology would be enough. But I would bet he recognizes he has much work left to do.

 
Widbil83 said:
Cjw_55106 said:
Interesting comment. Brees has done more good for the largely African American community in NO than most people would even dream about. But one comment (I wonder how many people actually read the entire thing) and he's treated as some social outcast who doesnt understand anything. 
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That’s why this whole thing right now is so incredibly bizarre. I believe this has the potential to lose the NFL a lot of fans. 
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Check back in a few months. There are a number of people who will never forgive Brees, true. Some of those people are likely even to be teammates. But I think Brees and the team end up coming out the other end in a better place than many would believe possible right now.

 
Doug B said:
Check back in a few months. There are a number of people who will never forgive Brees, true. Some of those people are likely even to be teammates. But I think Brees and the team end up coming out the other end in a better place than many would believe possible right now.
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Good point. Things will eventually settle down. But will people forgive the players attacking Brees on social media right now? His opinion is still the majority opinion in this country.

 
Doug B said:
Check back in a few months. There are a number of people who will never forgive Brees, true. Some of those people are likely even to be teammates. But I think Brees and the team end up coming out the other end in a better place than many would believe possible right now.
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I don't know what more they want from him.  It was a complete, formal apology...and with the requisite stock photo of a white arm and black arm in a powerful arm-wrestling power clasp. 

 
Widbil83 said:
Doug B said:
Check back in a few months. There are a number of people who will never forgive Brees, true. Some of those people are likely even to be teammates. But I think Brees and the team end up coming out the other end in a better place than many would believe possible right now.
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Good point. Things will eventually settle down. But will people forgive the players attacking Brees on social media right now? His opinion is still the majority opinion in this country.
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I think so. Even his most strident teammates are expressing deep disappointment, disillusionment, and in-the-moment anger -- not hatred. It's been bad, no question ... but the situation looks a lot worse through the lens of Twitter and other social media. It looks like EVERYONE in the building hates Brees intently and that the team can't go on. That's not been even close true at any point.

 
For those that didn't see Brees entire statement on Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CBA1P3gHpT_/?igshid=1qstwzxn87p2n

drewbrees Verified

I would like to apologize to my friends, teammates, the City of New Orleans, the black community, NFL community and anyone I hurt with my comments yesterday. In speaking with some of you, it breaks my heart to know the pain I have caused.
In an attempt to talk about respect, unity, and solidarity centered around the American flag and the national anthem, I made comments that were insensitive and completely missed the mark on the issues we are facing right now as a country. They lacked awareness and any type of compassion or empathy. Instead, those words have become divisive and hurtful and have misled people into believing that somehow I am an enemy. This could not be further from the truth, and is not an accurate reflection of my heart or my character.
This is where I stand:

I stand with the black community in the fight against systemic racial injustice and police brutality and support the creation of real policy change that will make a difference.
I condemn the years of oppression that have taken place throughout our black communities and still exists today.
I acknowledge that we as Americans, including myself, have not done enough to fight for that equality or to truly understand the struggles and plight of the black community.
I recognize that I am part of the solution and can be a leader for the black community in this movement.
I will never know what it’s like to be a black man or raise black children in America but I will work every day to put myself in those shoes and fight for what is right.
I have ALWAYS been an ally, never an enemy.
I am sick about the way my comments were perceived yesterday, but I take full responsibility and accountability. I recognize that I should do less talking and more listening...and when the black community is talking about their pain, we all need to listen.
For that, I am very sorry and I ask your forgiveness.

 
Hugh Jass said:
I don't know what more they want from him.  It was a complete, formal apology...and with the requisite stock photo of a white arm and black arm in a powerful arm-wrestling power clasp. 
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Who's "they"?

IMHO, I think teammates deserve Brees' audience. Brees still has relationships to repair in the locker room. It's not across-the-board unsalvageable, though.

 
Hugh Jass said:
Doug B said:
Check back in a few months. There are a number of people who will never forgive Brees, true. Some of those people are likely even to be teammates. But I think Brees and the team end up coming out the other end in a better place than many would believe possible right now.
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I don't know what more they want from him.  It was a complete, formal apology...and with the requisite stock photo of a white arm and black arm in a powerful arm-wrestling power clasp. 
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Brees missed a golden opportunity, BTW. Better image (light NSFW language).

 
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Doug B said:
Even if you hurt others inadvertently, you still apologize for the pain caused.

Brees wasn't apologizing for strong beliefs about the flag and anthem.
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To follow this line of reasoning, should the kneelers apologize to the military folks to whom they inadvertently caused pain?  

 
Doug B said:
Saints LB Demario Davis spoke on CNN this morning, as did Ben Watson. Both men were gracious and thoughtful about Brees' comments. From Davis:

Alli Hedges Maser
@AllisonLHedges

JUST NOW: "For him to admit that he was wrong.. I think that is leadership at its finest."

New Orleans @Saints linebacker @demario__davis reacts to hearing @dreabrees' apology in real time.
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Saints DE Cameron Jordan responding to this exact tweet from Maser:

cameron jordan @camjordan94 · 13m

My teammates!!!
Click to expand...

 
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