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Kentucky to add Medicaid work requirement (1 Viewer)

Stealthycat said:
I've been to way more than six and lived in them too - I traveled from 1991-1999 across this great nation
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Glad to hear it, Kerouac. Given what you said here:

That's one thing that ticks me off most about the left. Ya'll talk like you really know things - and truth is you don't.
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Combined with your previous dismissal of people who hadn't traveled as extensively as you during the great "####hole countries" immigration debate, does that mean that those of us who have traveled internationally can dismiss your opinions on that topic as uninformed nonsense that ticks us off?

 
Biff84 said:
Maybe you should have worked harder to get a better job that makes you more money so that you didn’t have to worry about every penny the government spends on others. Many then you could do all things you’re jealous of these people of doing and buy all the things you want. Really you have no one to blame but yourself for these issues because you didn’t work harder, get a better education and work your way further up the ladder in your career.

See how that works?
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I'm ok with where I am from where I've been. Understand for the Govt to spend money on others, they have to take it from people who work first. That's me and from my family.

Am I jealous of the people who draw checks and hunt and fish and do what they want to? I don't know that jealous is the word - hell we'd all like to get paychecks and do whatever we want wouldn't we? 

"See how that works?" ......... see how its not any comparison at all ?

 
thayman said:
That's not your call.
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it is and the call translates to a GOP led House, Senate and President and for the people and leaders of Kentucky, they're making that call right now

and its going to cascade, I bet in 2 years 15 other states do the same thing

win win win for everyone

 
Stealthycat said:
wow yeah, that's very different - not

funny part is, I'll take the time to explain why I believe what I do and I'll admit when I'm wrong - I don't "make things up" ........ but man I'll give you credit, you attack a posters personal credibility very well with all the snippets. very useful for me to pin and use later against people I'm debating - thank you for that I guess

seriously? looks like a bunch of lies and false statements and made up things in your head to me

see how easy that is to do? 
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No.  Because you've done it quite ineffectively.  You stated that you don't know the particulars of the person's situation that you were discussing.  Was he on Medicare or Medicaid? Was he type 1 diabetic? Type 2? Would diet or exercise have helped?  What was the situation where he was in Hawaii and/or China? Who paid for it?  Why was he there?  

Without that information you used the possibilities to decide he was mooching off the government - and off of you.  That's making things up.

Explaining to you why what you say isn't accurate isn't making things up.  You can call me a liar, I suppose.  I didn't do that to you, but you're welcome to.  It probably won't play as well as you think it will.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Combined with your previous dismissal of people who hadn't traveled as extensively as you during the great "####hole countries" immigration debate, does that mean that those of us who have traveled internationally can dismiss your opinions on that topic as uninformed nonsense that ticks us off?
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its not a dismissal its just fact and absolutely, people who have traveled to Paris and lived there can tell me much more about Paris than I can - I've not been

the more this discussion goes, the more I see people here who have no idea what they're talking about. They're talking crap, posting on their ideas and views and truth is, they've never walked in the shoes of the people they're talking about

I guess its like fake news, you just gotta read through it all and in the ends decide what seems more believable. 

 
Stealthycat said:
its not a dismissal its just fact and absolutely, people who have traveled to Paris and lived there can tell me much more about Paris than I can - I've not been

the more this discussion goes, the more I see people here who have no idea what they're talking about. They're talking crap, posting on their ideas and views and truth is, they've never walked in the shoes of the people they're talking about

I guess its like fake news, you just gotta read through it all and in the ends decide what seems more believable. 
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I've been to Africa and a number of other third world countries, so let's just agree that during that debate you were ticking people off by talking like you really knew things - and truth is you don't. Your words.

 
Henry Ford said:
Explaining to you why what you say isn't accurate isn't making things up.  You can call me a liar, I suppose.  I didn't do that to you, but you're welcome to.  It probably won't play as well as you think it will.
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If that's how you see it good for you

I'm pretty simple, I call things what they are and I know things when I see them. As with most topics you see what you want Henry Ford.  

 
TobiasFunke said:
I've been to Africa and a number of other third world countries, so let's just agree that during that debate you were ticking people off by talking like you really knew things - and truth is you don't. Your words.
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Have I talked about Africa? I've been to Venezuela, Belize, Guatemala, Mexico ......... not extensively traveled, but some.  If we're talking Africa in specifics yes, you have more knowledge of it than me TobiasFunke certainly 

I don't necessarily believe you have to experience something to have a view on it - don't mistake me there. But on this thread, you have people talking like they're been there, and done that, and how they can speak on how difficult being poor is, how hard it is etc etc.

No, they don't really know, they've never been there, and that's a difference worth noting. 

 
Stealthycat said:
Have I talked about Africa? I've been to Venezuela, Belize, Guatemala, Mexico ......... not extensively traveled, but some.  If we're talking Africa in specifics yes, you have more knowledge of it than me TobiasFunke certainly 

I don't necessarily believe you have to experience something to have a view on it - don't mistake me there. But on this thread, you have people talking like they're been there, and done that, and how they can speak on how difficult being poor is, how hard it is etc etc.

No, they don't really know, they've never been there, and that's a difference worth noting. 
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A difference worth noting?  Maybe. A reason to get ticked off and dismiss them as not knowing anything, which is what you did here?  Nah.  If you do that, I'm gonna point out that by your own rules your opinions on a number of subjects should be dismissed.

 
Stealthycat said:
Have I talked about Africa? I've been to Venezuela, Belize, Guatemala, Mexico ......... not extensively traveled, but some.  If we're talking Africa in specifics yes, you have more knowledge of it than me TobiasFunke certainly 

I don't necessarily believe you have to experience something to have a view on it - don't mistake me there. But on this thread, you have people talking like they're been there, and done that, and how they can speak on how difficult being poor is, how hard it is etc etc.

No, they don't really know, they've never been there, and that's a difference worth noting. 
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I suppose it might be if it existed.   However, you don’t know that difference exists.  You're guessing.    And in at least some cases you’re wrong. 

 
Stealthycat said:
wow yeah, that's very different - not

funny part is, I'll take the time to explain why I believe what I do and I'll admit when I'm wrong - I don't "make things up" ........ but man I'll give you credit, you attack a posters personal credibility very well with all the snippets. very useful for me to pin and use later against people I'm debating - thank you for that I guess

seriously? looks like a bunch of lies and false statements and made up things in your head to me

see how easy that is to do? 
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This is a presentation problem more than an interpretation problem. That's on you. We only have what you post here to go on

 
TobiasFunke said:
A difference worth noting?  Maybe. A reason to get ticked off and dismiss them as not knowing anything, which is what you did here?  Nah.  If you do that, I'm gonna point out that by your own rules your opinions on a number of subjects should be dismissed.
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again I don't know that i ever said "dismissed"

 
The Commish said:
This is a presentation problem more than an interpretation problem. That's on you. We only have what you post here to go on
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Is it ?

I say things how they are, what I think, my ideas etc. If ya'll call me a troll, I can't help that. A liar, making things up? I can't help that either. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
I guess I'm guilty of editorializing the sentiment "you don't know things and it ticks me off" as being dismissive.  Silly me.
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context TobiasFunke

I really do think now that quite a few posters here are liberals who were born into wealth. They think they know about poor people, poor places, etc and I don't think they really do.

"When I say get up and get out, I know it. People commenting on how hard it is? They've never done it. They don't have any idea about being dirt poor and having nothing. They don't know about being trapped and feeling angry about it or the work it takes to get somewhere and out of nowhere. 

That's one thing that ticks me off most about the left. Ya'll talk like you really know things - and truth is you don't. Some of ya'll might, but I question more and more that % and it gets smaller every time these discussions come up. "
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Ya'll might think whatever you want of me, but I know my roots, I know where I came from and how. If I can do it damn right, anyone can and that's the thing, Liberals don't seem to want anyone to do that. 

That's the argument isn't it? Truly - don't get people into schools, into work, into charity with 20 hours a week minimum .... let 'em stay at home and do nothing but watch HULU and Amazon Prime.

I highly disagree with at. I'm glad KY is making moves, I'll be glad when other states join them. I'll be glad when thousands come off Govt care and start working again, getting educated, helping communities maybe, charity, etc.

That's a win win win win win for everyone. No negatives. 

And Democrats will fight it every step of the way, baffling 

 
Stealthycat said:
context TobiasFunke

I really do think now that quite a few posters here are liberals who were born into wealth. They think they know about poor people, poor places, etc and I don't think they really do.

Ya'll might think whatever you want of me, but I know my roots, I know where I came from and how. If I can do it damn right, anyone can and that's the thing, Liberals don't seem to want anyone to do that. 

That's the argument isn't it? Truly - don't get people into schools, into work, into charity with 20 hours a week minimum .... let 'em stay at home and do nothing but watch HULU and Amazon Prime.

I highly disagree with at. I'm glad KY is making moves, I'll be glad when other states join them. I'll be glad when thousands come off Govt care and start working again, getting educated, helping communities maybe, charity, etc.

That's a win win win win win for everyone. No negatives. 

And Democrats will fight it every step of the way, baffling 
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I don't care about this specific issue in KY, and I care even less about your obnoxious habit of telling liberals what they think instead of listening to them. I'm pointing out that you don't live by your own words and that your dismissal of the opinions of others based on lack of first hand knowledge is dumb. I work in politics, does that mean everyone here is stupid when it comes to politics except me?  Good news, everyone, sub-thread is cancelled! Tune in every day when Tobias tells you how it is!

The truth is that people can have valid opinions regardless of their firsthand experiences. In fact in some cases it's better not to have firsthand experience, because anecdotal experience can keep you from seeing the larger picture. I believe you Trump supporters refer to that as being in "the bubble."

 
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Stealthycat said:
context TobiasFunke

I really do think now that quite a few posters here are liberals who were born into wealth. They think they know about poor people, poor places, etc and I don't think they really do.

Ya'll might think whatever you want of me, but I know my roots, I know where I came from and how. If I can do it damn right, anyone can and that's the thing, Liberals don't seem to want anyone to do that. 

That's the argument isn't it? Truly - don't get people into schools, into work, into charity with 20 hours a week minimum .... let 'em stay at home and do nothing but watch HULU and Amazon Prime.

I highly disagree with at. I'm glad KY is making moves, I'll be glad when other states join them. I'll be glad when thousands come off Govt care and start working again, getting educated, helping communities maybe, charity, etc.

That's a win win win win win for everyone. No negatives. 

And Democrats will fight it every step of the way, baffling 
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Wait you think a lot of the liberals posting in this thread were ‘born into wealth’? Where does that assumption come from?

 
TobiasFunke said:
The truth is that people can have valid opinions regardless of their firsthand experiences. In fact in some cases it's better not to have firsthand experience, because anecdotal experience can keep you from seeing the larger picture.
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I agree with both those - I don't have to participate in a satanic ritual to know its not for me. I can have an opinion without doing it.

If you have done the rituals, you by far know more about it than I do, but if we're talking about the ceremony and the details I'd be a fool to argue you the details

 
Stealthycat said:
Is it ?

I say things how they are, what I think, my ideas etc. If ya'll call me a troll, I can't help that. A liar, making things up? I can't help that either. 
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I haven't called you a single name.  It's this sort of gross characterization that is a problem.  You say how you THINK things are....that's fine.  That doesn't make your opinion "fact".  No matter how much you want that to be the case.  It's true you can't help what others do, but if you keep going a path without attempting to clarify, it's safe for us to assume that you agree with them and that becomes part of your persona here.  So yeah....it is.

 
Biff84 said:
Wait you think a lot of the liberals posting in this thread were ‘born into wealth’? Where does that assumption come from?
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Stealthycat said:
I really do think now that quite a few posters here are liberals who were born into wealth.
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a lot doesn't equal quite a few in my world, maybe it does in yours ?

it comes from people saying you can't pull yourself out of poverty and making a better life that its just too hard - to me, that's people that's never truly had it hard

JMO

 
Stealthycat said:
a lot doesn't equal quite a few in my world, maybe it does in yours ?

it comes from people saying you can't pull yourself out of poverty and making a better life that its just too hard - to me, that's people that's never truly had it hard

JMO
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So, it's one person....me.  And you completely ignore any and everything I said about that specific situation and tried to lump it into your preconceived notion of how the world works.  Somehow you KNOW these people based on YOUR experience even though it's clear your experience (the best you've told us anyway) is nothing like their story....yeah, it's you.

 
The Commish said:
I haven't called you a single name.  It's this sort of gross characterization that is a problem.  You say how you THINK things are....that's fine.  That doesn't make your opinion "fact".  No matter how much you want that to be the case.  It's true you can't help what others do, but if you keep going a path without attempting to clarify, it's safe for us to assume that you agree with them and that becomes part of your persona here.  So yeah....it is.
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I didn't mean you Commish - but its been done a plenty.

Well give me credit for hanging and TRYING to clarify. 

I'm ok with at the end of the day people just say hey, he's a conservative, he works hard, he takes care of his family and its not much to expect others to do the same ....he thinks the Govt is too big, he's pro-life, he for equality and fairness for everyone with no special treatments and they just believe something different. 

 
The Commish said:
So, it's one person....me.  And you completely ignore any and everything I said about that specific situation and tried to lump it into your preconceived notion of how the world works.  Somehow you KNOW these people based on YOUR experience even though it's clear your experience (the best you've told us anyway) is nothing like their story....yeah, it's you.
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tonight if I can I'll go back and read all your posts The Commish - I think I must have missed a page or something and missed things you said/posted

 
Stealthycat said:
tonight if I can I'll go back and read all your posts The Commish - I think I must have missed a page or something and missed things you said/posted
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it's not necessary....it's not going to matter.  I know this 100%.  You know why?  Because words can't really articulate how ####ty a life and situation that guy lives and you will never fully understand it, just like I will never fully understand you.

 
Stealthycat said:
a lot doesn't equal quite a few in my world, maybe it does in yours ?

it comes from people saying you can't pull yourself out of poverty and making a better life that its just too hard - to me, that's people that's never truly had it hard

JMO
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And by JMO, you mean completely pulling that out of thin air. And no one here is saying that you can’t pull yourself out of poverty and make your life better. Quite the opposite actually. The argument that most are making in this thread is that it’s not as easy as you claim. Especially your claim that they can just move to an area that has more jobs.

And just so you know my father was the janitor at my school and my mother was a poorly paid lab technican at a clinic. Their idea of going out to eat was the dollar menu at McDonalds and cheap pizza buffets. I’ll let you figure out if I’m a liberal born into wealth.

 
The Commish said:
Because words can't really articulate how ####ty a life and situation that guy lives and you will never fully understand it, just like I will never fully understand you.
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no not fully - every situation is different

but I grew up in dirt poor USA, had nothing and was never given anything - I do know that part of the man's life and culture and I know people today living just like him too

 
Biff84 said:
The argument that most are making in this thread is that it’s not as easy as you claim. Especially your claim that they can just move to an area that has more jobs.
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I never tried to say it was easy peasy lemon squeazy - in fact I've said it was hard, I know it because I've lived it

But this is the United States of America where people are born with little and become the President of the United States ( Bill Clinton, Obama )

This is where you can self make yourself - it unlike anywhere in the world 

 
Stealthycat said:
I never tried to say it was easy peasy lemon squeazy - in fact I've said it was hard, I know it because I've lived it

But this is the United States of America where people are born with little and become the President of the United States ( Bill Clinton, Obama )

This is where you can self make yourself - it unlike anywhere in the world 
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And here’s where the disconnect is - you acknowledge that it’s not easy yet you expect everyone to do it. Anyone who doesn’t is just sitting at home watching Netflix and Hulu or whatever cute reference you decide to use. You also characterize them as lazy and unwilling to do anything other than stay on government assistance.

You keep saying that you ‘lived it’ but it’s not the same now as when you did it. Cost of living has increased more than wages have. When you did it, a full time minimum wage job might be enough to support yourself. Going to a trade school may not have cost much. Now they will leave you in significant debt. Getting yourself out of poverty is a lot different now than when you did it. Your mistake is assuming that everything is the same.

 
Biff84 said:
you acknowledge that it’s not easy yet you expect everyone to do it. Anyone who doesn’t is just sitting at home watching Netflix and Hulu or whatever cute reference you decide to use. You also characterize them as lazy and unwilling to do anything other than stay on government assistance.
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Why have less expectations and hope for people? I don't want people to be poor and scraping by. Its a miserable thing, I've been there. I don't want kids not getting anything at Christmas, not wearing new clothes first day of school, 12 years on free lunch program, and a whole bunch of other things. I don't want that, I want them to be better for themselves and their families and their community, state and nation. Why would you not want that of them ?

I've said often enough there are people who need Govt assistance, and there are people who abuse it.

I've also said that a Govt check every week enslaves them to never want to strive to be any more than they are. Its ensnaring to many people and encourages them to sit around and do nothing. I know someone who's on disability faking it. I know someone on social care that will not take a pay raise because she doesn't want to pay for her kids healthcare. I know a person who can go back to work right now but he's afraid of a relapse and if it happens he'll never get on disability again. KY has decided to take action on all this, and other states will follow.

I've also agreed on how Kentucky is doing this - its an effort to enable people who want to be enabled. Its an effort to stop abuse. Its an effort to get people back to work, school or donating their time to charity.

Its win, win, win for everyone and I cannot understand why anyone would be against it.

 
Stealthycat said:
Why have less expectations and hope for people? I don't want people to be poor and scraping by. Its a miserable thing, I've been there. I don't want kids not getting anything at Christmas, not wearing new clothes first day of school, 12 years on free lunch program, and a whole bunch of other things. I don't want that, I want them to be better for themselves and their families and their community, state and nation. Why would you not want that of them ?

I've said often enough there are people who need Govt assistance, and there are people who abuse it.

I've also said that a Govt check every week enslaves them to never want to strive to be any more than they are. Its ensnaring to many people and encourages them to sit around and do nothing. I know someone who's on disability faking it. I know someone on social care that will not take a pay raise because she doesn't want to pay for her kids healthcare. I know a person who can go back to work right now but he's afraid of a relapse and if it happens he'll never get on disability again. KY has decided to take action on all this, and other states will follow.

I've also agreed on how Kentucky is doing this - its an effort to enable people who want to be enabled. Its an effort to stop abuse. Its an effort to get people back to work, school or donating their time to charity.

Its win, win, win for everyone and I cannot understand why anyone would be against it.
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I don't think anyone here has said they are against it.  

 
Stealthycat said:
Why have less expectations and hope for people? I don't want people to be poor and scraping by. Its a miserable thing, I've been there. I don't want kids not getting anything at Christmas, not wearing new clothes first day of school, 12 years on free lunch program, and a whole bunch of other things. I don't want that, I want them to be better for themselves and their families and their community, state and nation. Why would you not want that of them ?

I've said often enough there are people who need Govt assistance, and there are people who abuse it.

I've also said that a Govt check every week enslaves them to never want to strive to be any more than they are. Its ensnaring to many people and encourages them to sit around and do nothing. I know someone who's on disability faking it. I know someone on social care that will not take a pay raise because she doesn't want to pay for her kids healthcare. I know a person who can go back to work right now but he's afraid of a relapse and if it happens he'll never get on disability again. KY has decided to take action on all this, and other states will follow.

I've also agreed on how Kentucky is doing this - its an effort to enable people who want to be enabled. Its an effort to stop abuse. Its an effort to get people back to work, school or donating their time to charity.

Its win, win, win for everyone and I cannot understand why anyone would be against it.
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Is this creating new jobs? How is it stopping abuse? Without new, better paying jobs, it does little to better their lives. Then you can see what it really is - a way to force people off. Now that doesn’t sound like a win to me.

 
Biff84 said:
Is this creating new jobs? How is it stopping abuse? Without new, better paying jobs, it does little to better their lives. Then you can see what it really is - a way to force people off. Now that doesn’t sound like a win to me.
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no its not a job creator as its written that I can tell

this, and others like it, are intended to get people back to work - those who can, or go back to school those who want to or give 20 hours a week community service at a soup kitchen or habitat for humanity etc Its good for the people who can do it, its good for the economy, its good for the community etc

is it forcing people off? yes - if you're able to work and you don't want to, you'll get kicked off I imagine and you deserve to if you are one of those people

https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=restaurant&l=Kentucky

Salary Estimate

$15,000 (7842)

$20,000 (6393)

$25,000 (3799)

$30,000 (2785)

$35,000 (2017)

Job Type

Full-time (7623)

Part-time (1199)

Temporary (38)

Commission (21)

Contract (11)

Internship (5)

 
Lawsuit to Challenge the Work Requirements

Three consumer advocacy groups are suing the Trump administration seeking to stop it from allowing states for the first time to impose work requirements on certain Medicaid recipients.

The National Health Law Program, along with the Kentucky Equal Justice Center and the Southern Poverty Law Center, filed the suit in federal court in Washington, D.C., on Wednesday. The move comes less than two weeks after the Trump administration released guidelines for states to add work requirements to Medicaid and then granted Kentucky permission to do just that.

The suit charges that the approval of Kentucky's waiver -- which also requires many Medicaid recipients to pay premiums and locks them out of the program for up to six months if they violate certain rules -- runs counter to Medicaid's objective of providing the poor with access to health care. The work requirement, which can also be fulfilled through volunteering, going to job training and participating in other activities, applies to working age, non-disabled adults.

 
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