The General
Footballguy
Yep GB. I read it that way, you were just breaking down what happens now.
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Republicans will demand cuts to SS and medicare or crash the economy (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jackstraw
- Start date
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
U.S. budget deficit cut in half for biggest decrease ever amid Covid spending declines
The U.S. budget deficit was sliced in half for fiscal 2022, the biggest drop in history following two years of huge Covid-related spending.
FairWarning
Footballguy
I bet there are fewer companies offering pensions today also. Small businesses certainly can’t offer them, and they are roughly 70% of all businesses.
FairWarning
Footballguy
Probably shouldn’t have offered any COVID relief then? Basically its like Biden taking credit for lowering unemployment because states opened back up.
U.S. budget deficit cut in half for biggest decrease ever amid Covid spending declines
The U.S. budget deficit was sliced in half for fiscal 2022, the biggest drop in history following two years of huge Covid-related spending.www.cnbc.com
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Why would GOP want to cut SS and Medicare? People on those programs vote too.
It would be like the Dems wanting a secure border. Both won`t happen. Too many votes involved.
It would be like the Dems wanting a secure border. Both won`t happen. Too many votes involved.
FairWarning
Footballguy
How does the talking points memo compare to gateway pundit for credible news?
Talking points memo? Lolz
Talking points memo? Lolz
The Commish
Footballguy
To the first comment, this harkens back to "entitlement programs" and all the boogeyman arguments that go along with them. That's been a loooooooong running thing for the GOP. At this point it's a pretty laughable position to hold so I think your question actually is pretty valid. There's nothing to gain since the curtain has been pulled back. They aren't fooling anyone with "fiscal responsibility" anymore. To the second, we have to stop pretending that either party wants to secure the border. They don't, or it would be done.
The Commish
Footballguy
Pretty similar, but there's no denying the GOP has been after these "entitlements" for decades. The left brings this up as a fear point like the right brings up the government coming and taking your guns. Fear is a tried and true motivator.
Philo Beddoe
Footballguy
55 posts before the validity of this hyper left opinion site came into question.
FairWarning
Footballguy
Now twist it around to Gateway Pundit and the border for example. Not disagreeing that it would be a horrendous move for the R’s, but both are more opinion sites. It was just funny that some of the people who would call out a conservative site have no problem adding to the fear factor from the OP’s link.
The Commish
Footballguy
Well, yeah....bunch of hypocrites around here liking to point out the other hypocrites just like them is what this place does now. My position on "media" in this country should be clear by now. I don't comment on that stuff anymore unless an actual legit question (like yours) comes up. The rest is just noise and source policing. There aren't a ton of "left" sites on the same level as talking points memo. I actually can't remember the last time one was posted here, so the ONLY interest to me in this thread was the fact that no one had really addressed the source. That's usually #1 thing on the list. Tells me, a lot of the
from our "right" aren't aware of where a great many of these sites land or they would have absolutely pounced....it's what they (the sides) do.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
You may have already addressed this previously, but where do you get your data, info and news from?Well, yeah....bunch of hypocrites around here liking to point out the other hypocrites just like them is what this place does now. My position on "media" in this country should be clear by now. I don't comment on that stuff anymore unless an actual legit question (like yours) comes up. The rest is just noise and source policing. There aren't a ton of "left" sites on the same level as talking points memo. I actually can't remember the last time one was posted here, so the ONLY interest to me in this thread was the fact that no one had really addressed the source. That's usually #1 thing on the list. Tells me, a lot of the
The Commish
Footballguy
Mostly outlets outside the US or the source itself. So if I see a foxnews or cnn or a msnbc article on a particular study posted here, I don't give them the courtesy of a click, I go to the study itself. Same thing with bills being discussed and if the ONLY place I can find those things is IN the article etc, I simply wait until the source itself puts it out there in total for me to read.You may have already addressed this previously, but where do you get your data, info and news from?Well, yeah....bunch of hypocrites around here liking to point out the other hypocrites just like them is what this place does now. My position on "media" in this country should be clear by now. I don't comment on that stuff anymore unless an actual legit question (like yours) comes up. The rest is just noise and source policing. There aren't a ton of "left" sites on the same level as talking points memo. I actually can't remember the last time one was posted here, so the ONLY interest to me in this thread was the fact that no one had really addressed the source. That's usually #1 thing on the list. Tells me, a lot of the
BladeRunner
Footballguy
what outside outlets? Also, don't you think these outside outlets fall into the same trap as US Media? Meaning, they also have their own biases and agendas.Mostly outlets outside the US or the source itself. So if I see a foxnews or cnn or a msnbc article on a particular study posted here, I don't give them the courtesy of a click, I go to the study itself. Same thing with bills being discussed and if the ONLY place I can find those things is IN the article etc, I simply wait until the source itself puts it out there in total for me to read.You may have already addressed this previously, but where do you get your data, info and news from?Well, yeah....bunch of hypocrites around here liking to point out the other hypocrites just like them is what this place does now. My position on "media" in this country should be clear by now. I don't comment on that stuff anymore unless an actual legit question (like yours) comes up. The rest is just noise and source policing. There aren't a ton of "left" sites on the same level as talking points memo. I actually can't remember the last time one was posted here, so the ONLY interest to me in this thread was the fact that no one had really addressed the source. That's usually #1 thing on the list. Tells me, a lot of the
The Commish
Footballguy
Everything has a bias. It's impossible to avoid it, so we need to understand the bias as we consume the media. It's not a "trap" to have a bias. The "trap" is the sensationalism our media outlets deploy to farm your attention. I find that "just the facts" reporting of US events by foreign outlets eliminates as much as the bias as possible where money and clicks is the motivator. Read articles where reuters and/or bbc (Al Jezzera is in this category too) are covering the US, then compare those articles to ones they write covering things more locally and you'll see a pretty good difference. Those are STILL far and away better (even when covering locally) than anything in this country, but they aren't perfect. When they are covering the US it's no contest when comparing them to our national media. Our media machine is monetized completely differently than those I mention. They rely on subscriptions with free articles here and there. We rely on farming clicks, time and attention and monetize all those things. They don't have a "whatever it takes to keep your attention" approach to their work like the US does. Yeah, you'll find exceptions, but MOST of them are usually on local, popular issues. I will also point out that those foreign sources continue to be crystal clear on what is opinion and what is reporting. That is muddied as much as possible in this country. I could go on and on about differences, but those are the big ones that one can't unsee once they've been pointed out.what outside outlets? Also, don't you think these outside outlets fall into the same trap as US Media? Meaning, they also have their own biases and agendas.Mostly outlets outside the US or the source itself. So if I see a foxnews or cnn or a msnbc article on a particular study posted here, I don't give them the courtesy of a click, I go to the study itself. Same thing with bills being discussed and if the ONLY place I can find those things is IN the article etc, I simply wait until the source itself puts it out there in total for me to read.You may have already addressed this previously, but where do you get your data, info and news from?Well, yeah....bunch of hypocrites around here liking to point out the other hypocrites just like them is what this place does now. My position on "media" in this country should be clear by now. I don't comment on that stuff anymore unless an actual legit question (like yours) comes up. The rest is just noise and source policing. There aren't a ton of "left" sites on the same level as talking points memo. I actually can't remember the last time one was posted here, so the ONLY interest to me in this thread was the fact that no one had really addressed the source. That's usually #1 thing on the list. Tells me, a lot of the
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Nobody is forced to work too long. Spend less money. Consume less, save more. Most people spend way way more than they need to. It’s not supernatural.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Thank you for this. I appreciate it. I need to spend more time on those sites.Everything has a bias. It's impossible to avoid it, so we need to understand the bias as we consume the media. It's not a "trap" to have a bias. The "trap" is the sensationalism our media outlets deploy to farm your attention. I find that "just the facts" reporting of US events by foreign outlets eliminates as much as the bias as possible where money and clicks is the motivator. Read articles where reuters and/or bbc (Al Jezzera is in this category too) are covering the US, then compare those articles to ones they write covering things more locally and you'll see a pretty good difference. Those are STILL far and away better (even when covering locally) than anything in this country, but they aren't perfect. When they are covering the US it's no contest when comparing them to our national media. Our media machine is monetized completely differently than those I mention. They rely on subscriptions with free articles here and there. We rely on farming clicks, time and attention and monetize all those things. They don't have a "whatever it takes to keep your attention" approach to their work like the US does. Yeah, you'll find exceptions, but MOST of them are usually on local, popular issues. I will also point out that those foreign sources continue to be crystal clear on what is opinion and what is reporting. That is muddied as much as possible in this country. I could go on and on about differences, but those are the big ones that one can't unsee once they've been pointed out.what outside outlets? Also, don't you think these outside outlets fall into the same trap as US Media? Meaning, they also have their own biases and agendas.Mostly outlets outside the US or the source itself. So if I see a foxnews or cnn or a msnbc article on a particular study posted here, I don't give them the courtesy of a click, I go to the study itself. Same thing with bills being discussed and if the ONLY place I can find those things is IN the article etc, I simply wait until the source itself puts it out there in total for me to read.You may have already addressed this previously, but where do you get your data, info and news from?Well, yeah....bunch of hypocrites around here liking to point out the other hypocrites just like them is what this place does now. My position on "media" in this country should be clear by now. I don't comment on that stuff anymore unless an actual legit question (like yours) comes up. The rest is just noise and source policing. There aren't a ton of "left" sites on the same level as talking points memo. I actually can't remember the last time one was posted here, so the ONLY interest to me in this thread was the fact that no one had really addressed the source. That's usually #1 thing on the list. Tells me, a lot of the
The Commish
Footballguy
I challenge anyone I meet and everyone here to take the 30 day challenge and consume NONE of the outlets here (especially the websites and 24 hour channels) and instead follow sources outside the country. Yeah, there's going to be times where you come here to the PSF and it will be the first time you're hearing of an incident/event/issue as a result, but that's ok. Avoid the spin zones and go directly to the sources or sources outside this country. You'll have a completely different perspective on our media, guaranteed.Thank you for this. I appreciate it. I need to spend more time on those sites.Everything has a bias. It's impossible to avoid it, so we need to understand the bias as we consume the media. It's not a "trap" to have a bias. The "trap" is the sensationalism our media outlets deploy to farm your attention. I find that "just the facts" reporting of US events by foreign outlets eliminates as much as the bias as possible where money and clicks is the motivator. Read articles where reuters and/or bbc (Al Jezzera is in this category too) are covering the US, then compare those articles to ones they write covering things more locally and you'll see a pretty good difference. Those are STILL far and away better (even when covering locally) than anything in this country, but they aren't perfect. When they are covering the US it's no contest when comparing them to our national media. Our media machine is monetized completely differently than those I mention. They rely on subscriptions with free articles here and there. We rely on farming clicks, time and attention and monetize all those things. They don't have a "whatever it takes to keep your attention" approach to their work like the US does. Yeah, you'll find exceptions, but MOST of them are usually on local, popular issues. I will also point out that those foreign sources continue to be crystal clear on what is opinion and what is reporting. That is muddied as much as possible in this country. I could go on and on about differences, but those are the big ones that one can't unsee once they've been pointed out.what outside outlets? Also, don't you think these outside outlets fall into the same trap as US Media? Meaning, they also have their own biases and agendas.Mostly outlets outside the US or the source itself. So if I see a foxnews or cnn or a msnbc article on a particular study posted here, I don't give them the courtesy of a click, I go to the study itself. Same thing with bills being discussed and if the ONLY place I can find those things is IN the article etc, I simply wait until the source itself puts it out there in total for me to read.You may have already addressed this previously, but where do you get your data, info and news from?Well, yeah....bunch of hypocrites around here liking to point out the other hypocrites just like them is what this place does now. My position on "media" in this country should be clear by now. I don't comment on that stuff anymore unless an actual legit question (like yours) comes up. The rest is just noise and source policing. There aren't a ton of "left" sites on the same level as talking points memo. I actually can't remember the last time one was posted here, so the ONLY interest to me in this thread was the fact that no one had really addressed the source. That's usually #1 thing on the list. Tells me, a lot of the
FairWarning
Footballguy
Certainly wasn’t aimed at you, you are very fair.Well, yeah....bunch of hypocrites around here liking to point out the other hypocrites just like them is what this place does now. My position on "media" in this country should be clear by now. I don't comment on that stuff anymore unless an actual legit question (like yours) comes up. The rest is just noise and source policing. There aren't a ton of "left" sites on the same level as talking points memo. I actually can't remember the last time one was posted here, so the ONLY interest to me in this thread was the fact that no one had really addressed the source. That's usually #1 thing on the list. Tells me, a lot of the
FairWarning
Footballguy
Eh, I get your point but I’ve seen too many people get their job eliminated or relocated.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Sure. Ditto. But we’re talking about a problem on a massive level here. Far too many people over consume their whole lives and then count on SS as their entire retirement income. And our politicians subconsciously encourage that mindset. It’s a huge problem which bleeds over into the retirement age issue.
The Commish
Footballguy
No i get it. I didn't take it as if it were directed at me GB. It's all that happens around here anymore. It's replaced respectful discourse. I expect nothing less around here anymore.Certainly wasn’t aimed at you, you are very fair.Well, yeah....bunch of hypocrites around here liking to point out the other hypocrites just like them is what this place does now. My position on "media" in this country should be clear by now. I don't comment on that stuff anymore unless an actual legit question (like yours) comes up. The rest is just noise and source policing. There aren't a ton of "left" sites on the same level as talking points memo. I actually can't remember the last time one was posted here, so the ONLY interest to me in this thread was the fact that no one had really addressed the source. That's usually #1 thing on the list. Tells me, a lot of the
the moops
Footballguy
Except that is exactly what will happen to some if the age requirements are raised. There are millions of people who have timed their retirement to social security and/or medicare eligibility. Raise that age and you force people to work longer
FairWarning
Footballguy
I watch a decent amount of foreign news and you’re right. In no particular order I watch DW (Germany), ABC Aussie, BBC, Sky, France 24, and CBC.I challenge anyone I meet and everyone here to take the 30 day challenge and consume NONE of the outlets here (especially the websites and 24 hour channels) and instead follow sources outside the country. Yeah, there's going to be times where you come here to the PSF and it will be the first time you're hearing of an incident/event/issue as a result, but that's ok. Avoid the spin zones and go directly to the sources or sources outside this country. You'll have a completely different perspective on our media, guaranteed.Thank you for this. I appreciate it. I need to spend more time on those sites.Everything has a bias. It's impossible to avoid it, so we need to understand the bias as we consume the media. It's not a "trap" to have a bias. The "trap" is the sensationalism our media outlets deploy to farm your attention. I find that "just the facts" reporting of US events by foreign outlets eliminates as much as the bias as possible where money and clicks is the motivator. Read articles where reuters and/or bbc (Al Jezzera is in this category too) are covering the US, then compare those articles to ones they write covering things more locally and you'll see a pretty good difference. Those are STILL far and away better (even when covering locally) than anything in this country, but they aren't perfect. When they are covering the US it's no contest when comparing them to our national media. Our media machine is monetized completely differently than those I mention. They rely on subscriptions with free articles here and there. We rely on farming clicks, time and attention and monetize all those things. They don't have a "whatever it takes to keep your attention" approach to their work like the US does. Yeah, you'll find exceptions, but MOST of them are usually on local, popular issues. I will also point out that those foreign sources continue to be crystal clear on what is opinion and what is reporting. That is muddied as much as possible in this country. I could go on and on about differences, but those are the big ones that one can't unsee once they've been pointed out.what outside outlets? Also, don't you think these outside outlets fall into the same trap as US Media? Meaning, they also have their own biases and agendas.Mostly outlets outside the US or the source itself. So if I see a foxnews or cnn or a msnbc article on a particular study posted here, I don't give them the courtesy of a click, I go to the study itself. Same thing with bills being discussed and if the ONLY place I can find those things is IN the article etc, I simply wait until the source itself puts it out there in total for me to read.You may have already addressed this previously, but where do you get your data, info and news from?Well, yeah....bunch of hypocrites around here liking to point out the other hypocrites just like them is what this place does now. My position on "media" in this country should be clear by now. I don't comment on that stuff anymore unless an actual legit question (like yours) comes up. The rest is just noise and source policing. There aren't a ton of "left" sites on the same level as talking points memo. I actually can't remember the last time one was posted here, so the ONLY interest to me in this thread was the fact that no one had really addressed the source. That's usually #1 thing on the list. Tells me, a lot of the
The Commish
Footballguy
Yeah, the only way this sort of age shift works is if it's done for people coming new, into the workforce. It would be a 30 year transition. Shocking that our politicians didn't think this sort of thing through back in the day
FairWarning
Footballguy
Pensions were a big deal for our parents, many of us won’t get that opportunity.
FairWarning
Footballguy
Many posters are within 10 years of making that decision. Im very concerned that I won’t make it to soc sec, my body has basically given out.
Shula-holic
Footballguy
Definitely. I switched jobs back in 1998 and the company I moved to was using their old pension plan even back then as a selling point where many were closing theirs. That company has since closed theirs to new employees, I think around 2011. They bought me out of my part of it around that time as well. It's a never ending accounting and funding exercise as well as a liability that companies just don't want to have to fool with.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
No, we should maintain the budgetary flexibility to spend during a crisis without adding on to structural deficits caused by tax cuts.
Or blaming Biden for inflation? (Did you see the IMF forecast? If it were to hold true, do you think the GOP doesn't claim victory if we assume they take the House and Senate?)
skol asylum
Footballguy
Selfishly, I want to retire earlier rather than later. They should lower the retirement age not raise it. At least when it comes to Medicare. Remove the cap on the wealthy and do whatever other fundraising it takes to make it happen.
Top Republicans Keep Talking About Plans To Cut Medicare And Social Security
Republicans keep talking about their plans to hold the debt ceiling hostage to extract cuts to Medicare and Social Security — despite the popularity of those programs.talkingpointsmemo.com
THEY'RE GETTING THE BAND BACK TOGEHTER!
Remember all the debt ceiling hijinks the Dems played with the entire world economy during Trumps Presidency? Me neither.
For a few weeks now, they’ve been open about their intention to hold the debt ceiling hostage, a tactic they’ve used repeatedly since Tea Party Republicans tried it out in 2011. It works more or less the same way each time: Republican lawmakers say they will not vote to raise or suspend the debt ceiling, threatening to let the United States default on its debts, which would almost certainly trigger a global economic crisis. In exchange, they demand political concessions from the Democratic President.
This time, they’re planning to demand cuts to Medicare and Social Security — a policy position so staggeringly unpopular, one would expect them to keep it shelved until after they’d procured enough votes to enact it.
House Republicans, some of whom are poised to take over major committees in the case of a congressional flip, have been open about this intent both in interviews and, in terms of their desired changes to the programs, in the Republican Study Committee budget released earlier this year.
House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) said more in an interview with Punchbowl News published Tuesday.
“You can’t just continue down the path to keep spending and adding to the debt. And if people want to make a debt ceiling [for a longer period of time], just like anything else, there comes a point in time where, okay, we’ll provide you more money, but you got to change your current behavior. We’re not just going to keep lifting your credit card limit, right?” he said. “And we should seriously sit together and [figure out] where can we eliminate some waste? Where can we make the economy grow stronger?”
He added that he would not “predetermine” anything in terms of extorting cuts to Social Security and Medicare during a debt ceiling standoff.
House Republican Whip Steve Scalise (R-LA) said on Fox News Sunday that calling what Republicans want to do to the two programs “cuts” is misleading. He said they actually want to “strengthen” and “shore up” the programs.
In the study committee budget, Republicans call for raising the age of eligibility for both Medicare and Social Security, and encourage increased means testing for Medicare.
To keep the programs solvent, Democrats have suggested raising taxes on the wealthy rather than making more people ineligible.
Democrats have started to seize on this Republican positioning.
“RT if you agree: it’s shameful that House Republicans are once again threatening to hold the debt limit hostage and risking the U.S. economy in order to slash Medicare and Social Security programs,” House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD) tweeted last week.
“Are you going to support a party that wants to give more tax breaks to the rich, cut Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid, or are you going to support people prepared to stand up for working people?” Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) added Sunday on NBC.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/...al-security-debt-ceiling#EmbedCommentsWrapper
FairWarning
Footballguy
I didnt See it, I’m sure it wasn’t good. We know what will happen with the second part though - the things Biden will want done will be from executive orders Most likely.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Now that I remember where I saw it, you probably would not have. I stumbled on it scrolling down on one of the Supreme Court tweets posted yesterday-
This is a positive US spin on this negative Great Britain article.
"https://www.ft.com/content/cd8c0d49-22ad-4d5f-bc8e-58e3ba53a6a0"
Subscribe to read
(I didn't look for the "market" source.)
And I'm not arguing that these forecasts or the spin is correct, just what happens politically if it turns out correct or close enough.
HellToupee
Footballguy
It’s really that simple.
FairWarning
Footballguy
The first 25% + spike in the heating bill will eliminate much of the social issues talk.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Yep. It would have to be a long, slow, gradual transition. Which is why we need to start now.Yeah, the only way this sort of age shift works is if it's done for people coming new, into the workforce. It would be a 30 year transition. Shocking that our politicians didn't think this sort of thing through back in the day
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
I hear you. My dad and his sister went through the same thing…..bodies broke down from decades of really hard jobs. SS and Medicare exist for a reason — and that reason isn’t to pad the pockets of wealthy people.
FairWarning
Footballguy
The real crime is if someone has to go to end of life Medicaid.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I think you are right although personally I don’t care about inflation and the economy.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Everything is personal and to each their own.
Economy and Inflation Are the Top Issues
The economy is the baseline issue in most national elections, midterm or presidential. This year provides no exception.Data from Gallup and other polls show that the economy -- and inflation in particular -- are American voters top concern leading into the Nov. 8 midterm elections. We see this in open-ended questions asking about top problems. And we see it every poll that query voters directly on their election concerns, all showing that inflation and/or the economy rise to the top of the list of issues.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
That's true, but workers can't control that, and as mentioned some will die early receiving little to no benefit, some will live until they're 95 and receive way more than they put in.
The overall point being there's a system in place, an agreement. It's not up to the level of a contract in a legal sense, but Americans pay into these programs and have earned the benefits that go along with paying into that system. The benefits are spelled out in advance. Americans are upholding their end of the bargain by paying their payroll taxes.
Making changes to the system is something that will need to be addressed on occasion, strengthening the solvency of these programs is important. That's not what's being proposed in the Rescue America plan, which seems to be serving as a source for the discussion on this topic. In the section titled "government reform and debt" it states "All federal legislation sunsets in 5 years. If a law is worth keeping, Congress can pass it again." That would include the Social Security Act. Here's a link to the Rescue America Plan.
It seems to me at least that's a step too far. If we're talking about proposals to strengthen the solvency of these programs, that's one thing. Many good proposals have been made here in this thread. Outright "sunsetting" all federal legislation, including the Social Security Act? I believe that declaration is what's at the core of the debate, at least for some. That's a miss, IMO.
Sand
Footballguy
It's important to remember the history here. FDR promised up and down SS was a piggy bank. You paid in and you get back out. When the SS law came under review at SCOTUS, however, FDR's lawyers argued that SS was a tax and was constitutional based on the government's ability to tax the populace.
So, in a real sense, what you see and everyone sees as an agreement that the government treats these monies as a piggy bank is incorrect. Social Security is a tax, nothing more, nothing less. Expecting more is expecting more from government.
The Commish
Footballguy
Right.....I took this approach when I started my career back in 1998. I couldn't give two poops what happens to SS at this point. It is not part of my retirement plan in any shape, form, fashion. IF I get anything from it, it will be "cherry on top" sort of money.Yep. It would have to be a long, slow, gradual transition. Which is why we need to start now.Yeah, the only way this sort of age shift works is if it's done for people coming new, into the workforce. It would be a 30 year transition. Shocking that our politicians didn't think this sort of thing through back in the day
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