Opportunity - The gift our country gives to all (2 Viewers)

[Sabertooth]

there is opportunity for everyone

some people have more opportunity because of rules/laws/special programs etc that gives them opportunity based on DNA/ancestory, skin color, sexual choices etc etc

but unlike many countries you are right, at its core, we all have opportunity in the USA as legal US citizens to go as far as we want to go with hard work and effort and good choices. Thanks to the SC, in many states unborn babies now have those chances too

Many of those fetuses will be born to parents often single mothers who don't want them and can't afford to raise a child, and whose opportunity in many cases will be severely limited.

This is a great example of conservatism according to Frank Wilhoit- “There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”

Rich people can still get abortions as they always have and will. Poor people not so much.

Abortions is kind of a perfect storm in the way it truly only impacts poor folks. It keeps the cycle of poverty working because let’s face it, the rich need desperately poor people to man those Walmarts and work those fields. If we don’t have desperate poor, the rich cannot keep making more money by underpaying them grossly.

Another benefit of abortion ban is now those who are stuck with extra kids can be easily identified and judged and dismissed as loose or inmoral women, which frees up the Christian’s to judge and scorn them with glee.

This also helps with the guilt that should accompany denying poor children food and healthcare and housing. Well we can’t go giving those whores free money, they’ll just have more kids and smoke more weed. It would be immoral to enable such awful subhumans.

With Christians it seems that the abortion issue is a convenient way to “hurt the right people (poor and/or non-white) while sidestepping all guilt and “saving the babies.” It’s disgusting. It’s dishonest. And dare I say it’s evil. God will hopefully judge this harshly if indeed there is an afterlife.

A lot of the people against abortions are living in the poorest states.

I agree with that. People vote against their own best interest all the time. How are those billionaire tax cuts working out?

As someone from a poorer state, it's my personal all time favorite bill

Personally I don’t enjoy watching my neighbors suffer. I get no joy from it at all.

 

[FairWarning]

there is opportunity for everyone

some people have more opportunity because of rules/laws/special programs etc that gives them opportunity based on DNA/ancestory, skin color, sexual choices etc etc

but unlike many countries you are right, at its core, we all have opportunity in the USA as legal US citizens to go as far as we want to go with hard work and effort and good choices. Thanks to the SC, in many states unborn babies now have those chances too

Many of those fetuses will be born to parents often single mothers who don't want them and can't afford to raise a child, and whose opportunity in many cases will be severely limited.

This is a great example of conservatism according to Frank Wilhoit- “There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”

Rich people can still get abortions as they always have and will. Poor people not so much.

Abortions is kind of a perfect storm in the way it truly only impacts poor folks. It keeps the cycle of poverty working because let’s face it, the rich need desperately poor people to man those Walmarts and work those fields. If we don’t have desperate poor, the rich cannot keep making more money by underpaying them grossly.

Another benefit of abortion ban is now those who are stuck with extra kids can be easily identified and judged and dismissed as loose or inmoral women, which frees up the Christian’s to judge and scorn them with glee.

This also helps with the guilt that should accompany denying poor children food and healthcare and housing. Well we can’t go giving those whores free money, they’ll just have more kids and smoke more weed. It would be immoral to enable such awful subhumans.

With Christians it seems that the abortion issue is a convenient way to “hurt the right people (poor and/or non-white) while sidestepping all guilt and “saving the babies.” It’s disgusting. It’s dishonest. And dare I say it’s evil. God will hopefully judge this harshly if indeed there is an afterlife.

A lot of the people against abortions are living in the poorest states.

I agree with that. People vote against their own best interest all the time. How are those billionaire tax cuts working out?

You’re assuming that those southern states are red because of billionaires. They are more likely to be single issue voters.

 

[Sabertooth]

I never said southern.

 

[FairWarning]

I never said southern.

You don’t have to.

Mind blowing but some of us conservatives are for roe and against the last Trump tax break.

 

[Sabertooth]

Not mind blowing. I’m a pretty ala carte person myself too. I’m actually anti abortion but pro choice. I’m also confirmed in two different Christian religions and starting to lean away from organized religion altogether.

 

[Stealthycat]

I agree that those things can provide opportunity, but you're missing the biggest factor. The social economic status of the family you are born into is the greatest potential differentiator in opportunity for people in this country.

its a factor but its not the greatest by far - so many people born with advantages squander them away - care yo explain that ??

but opportunity STILL remains and exits .... we don't live in a caste system, everyone through hard work, good decisions and planning can exceed .... that's not available in so many countries

 

[Sabertooth]

I agree that those things can provide opportunity, but you're missing the biggest factor. The social economic status of the family you are born into is the greatest potential differentiator in opportunity for people in this country.

its a factor but its not the greatest by far - so many people born with advantages squander them away - care yo explain that ??

but opportunity STILL remains and exits .... we don't live in a caste system, everyone through hard work, good decisions and planning can exceed .... that's not available in so many countries

We don’t have a caste system here. But if we give the Evangelicals enough time, I’m sure we can get there.

 

[Shula-holic]

there is opportunity for everyone

some people have more opportunity because of rules/laws/special programs etc that gives them opportunity based on DNA/ancestory, skin color, sexual choices etc etc

but unlike many countries you are right, at its core, we all have opportunity in the USA as legal US citizens to go as far as we want to go with hard work and effort and good choices. Thanks to the SC, in many states unborn babies now have those chances too

Many of those fetuses will be born to parents often single mothers who don't want them and can't afford to raise a child, and whose opportunity in many cases will be severely limited.

This is a great example of conservatism according to Frank Wilhoit- “There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”

Rich people can still get abortions as they always have and will. Poor people not so much.

Abortions is kind of a perfect storm in the way it truly only impacts poor folks. It keeps the cycle of poverty working because let’s face it, the rich need desperately poor people to man those Walmarts and work those fields. If we don’t have desperate poor, the rich cannot keep making more money by underpaying them grossly.

Another benefit of abortion ban is now those who are stuck with extra kids can be easily identified and judged and dismissed as loose or inmoral women, which frees up the Christian’s to judge and scorn them with glee.

This also helps with the guilt that should accompany denying poor children food and healthcare and housing. Well we can’t go giving those whores free money, they’ll just have more kids and smoke more weed. It would be immoral to enable such awful subhumans.

With Christians it seems that the abortion issue is a convenient way to “hurt the right people (poor and/or non-white) while sidestepping all guilt and “saving the babies.” It’s disgusting. It’s dishonest. And dare I say it’s evil. God will hopefully judge this harshly if indeed there is an afterlife.

A lot of the people against abortions are living in the poorest states.

I agree with that. People vote against their own best interest all the time. How are those billionaire tax cuts working out?

As someone from a poorer state, it's my personal all time favorite bill

Personally I don’t enjoy watching my neighbors suffer. I get no joy from it at all.

I don't know anyone locally here who complains about that bill. In fact, quite the opposite. I'm sure there are a few, but the majority support it where I'm from.

 

[Sabertooth]

So the propaganda is working near you. Congrats???

 

[Shula-holic]

So the propaganda is working near you. Congrats???

Yep, us dumb folks don't know what we're doing down here.

 

[(HULK)]

I agree that those things can provide opportunity, but you're missing the biggest factor. The social economic status of the family you are born into is the greatest potential differentiator in opportunity for people in this country.

its a factor but its not the greatest by far - so many people born with advantages squander them away - care yo explain that ??

but opportunity STILL remains and exits .... we don't live in a caste system, everyone through hard work, good decisions and planning can exceed .... that's not available in so many countries

We have social mobility, absolutely. It's not the best in the world but it's pretty good. We can do better though IMO

 

[(HULK)]

I agree that those things can provide opportunity, but you're missing the biggest factor. The social economic status of the family you are born into is the greatest potential differentiator in opportunity for people in this country.

its a factor but its not the greatest by far - so many people born with advantages squander them away - care yo explain that ??

but opportunity STILL remains and exits .... we don't live in a caste system, everyone through hard work, good decisions and planning can exceed .... that's not available in so many countries

We don’t have a caste system here. But if we give the Evangelicals enough time, I’m sure we can get there.

You know you're big time when you get 3 Marthas to go with your handmaid and driver.

 

[Stealthycat]

We have social mobility, absolutely. It's not the best in the world but it's pretty good. We can do better though IMO

oddly enough we also have one of the racist/sexist systems in place that discriminates based on color of skin, DNA/genealogy, income of parents etc etc

we could do better by removing all the discrimination ... fair and equal to all

 

[Stealthycat]

social mobility only happens when people have (A) opportunity and (B) hard work and (C) good decisions and choices

there have been many better physically than Jordan, many that have been mentally tougher, many who had same or better work ethic

there have been few with a combination of them all like Jordan had ..... and you can apply that to successful people in the USA too more often than not ... not many are successful without hard work and good decisions/choices, the drive/will to succeed and the opportunity that the USA gives us all

even people born into poverty, into single parent homes

 

[The Commish]

social mobility only happens when people have (A) opportunity and (B) hard work and (C) good decisions and choices

We have hundreds of thousands of hours of "reality TV" that says otherwise.

In THIS country, the primary driver for "social mobility" is (which, I guess one could file under opportunity).

 

[(HULK)]

We have social mobility, absolutely. It's not the best in the world but it's pretty good. We can do better though IMO

oddly enough we also have one of the racist/sexist systems in place that discriminates based on color of skin, DNA/genealogy, income of parents etc etc

we could do better by removing all the discrimination ... fair and equal to all

It is a very tough needle to thread IMO

 

[Stealthycat]

We have hundreds of thousands of hours of "reality TV" that says otherwise.

In THIS country, the primary driver for "social mobility" is (which, I guess one could file under opportunity).

you don't think those people who are reality tv stars work ? you don't think they have made good decisions to get them where they are and choices ?

 

[The Commish]

We have hundreds of thousands of hours of "reality TV" that says otherwise.

In THIS country, the primary driver for "social mobility" is (which, I guess one could file under opportunity).

you don't think those people who are reality tv stars work ? you don't think they have made good decisions to get them where they are and choices ?

In THIS country, the primary driver for "social mobility" is

The rest is arguments over what comes after that as secondary, tertiary, quaternary, none of which have a bigger impact than the Reminder...the below is what I responded to.....

social mobility only happens when people have (A) opportunity and (B) hard work and (C) good decisions and choices

 

[Stealthycat]

In THIS country, the primary driver for "social mobility" is

nope - money helps, but if a person is unmotivated, doesn't work hard ... they'll not be successful

The rest is arguments over what comes after that as secondary, tertiary, quaternary, none of which have a bigger impact than the Reminder...the below is what I responded to.....

this country is full of people born with no money who are far far more better off than they were - through hard work, good choices, determination etc

 

[The Commish]

In THIS country, the primary driver for "social mobility" is

nope - money helps, but if a person is unmotivated, doesn't work hard ... they'll not be successful

The rest is arguments over what comes after that as secondary, tertiary, quaternary, none of which have a bigger impact than the Reminder...the below is what I responded to.....

this country is full of people born with no money who are far far more better off than they were - through hard work, good choices, determination etc

sure thing

 

[Battersbox]

In THIS country, the primary driver for "social mobility" is

nope - money helps, but if a person is unmotivated, doesn't work hard ... they'll not be successful

The rest is arguments over what comes after that as secondary, tertiary, quaternary, none of which have a bigger impact than the Reminder...the below is what I responded to.....

this country is full of people born with no money who are far far more better off than they were - through hard work, good choices, determination etc

sure thing

Most of today’s millionaires weren’t born into their wealth, research shows.

A 2019 study published by Wealth-X found that around 68% of those with a net worth of $30 million or more made it themselves.

Further, a second study by Fidelity Investments found that 88% of all millionaires are self-made, meaning they did not inherit their wealth.

 

[KarmaPolice]

In THIS country, the primary driver for "social mobility" is

nope - money helps, but if a person is unmotivated, doesn't work hard ... they'll not be successful

The rest is arguments over what comes after that as secondary, tertiary, quaternary, none of which have a bigger impact than the Reminder...the below is what I responded to.....

this country is full of people born with no money who are far far more better off than they were - through hard work, good choices, determination etc

sure thing

Most of today’s millionaires weren’t born into their wealth, research shows.

A 2019 study published by Wealth-X found that around 68% of those with a net worth of $30 million or more made it themselves.

Further, a second study by Fidelity Investments found that 88% of all millionaires are self-made, meaning they did not inherit their wealth.

Pretty sure that's not what Commish is getting at.

You could have 2 people with the exact same work ethic who will make great life choices - one born to one of the self made millionaires in your example and one born to somebody supporting a family on minimum wage. You guys can't tell me you think the odds of positive outcome are the same in those two scenarios. Money and wealth is factor #1, the other things follow after that is what he is saying, and I would tend to agree.

I also don't think I would agree with their definition of "self-made" either. Hell, didn't our ex-POTUS describe himself as a self-made businessman and millionaire?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Most of today’s millionaires weren’t born into their wealth, research shows.

I would suggest that millionaires are by definition the exceptions rather than the masses. I'd also guess that most millionaires aren't what we think of when we hear the term, but instead those that have twenty or thirty years of 401K contributions.

 

[Battersbox]

In THIS country, the primary driver for "social mobility" is

nope - money helps, but if a person is unmotivated, doesn't work hard ... they'll not be successful

The rest is arguments over what comes after that as secondary, tertiary, quaternary, none of which have a bigger impact than the Reminder...the below is what I responded to.....

this country is full of people born with no money who are far far more better off than they were - through hard work, good choices, determination etc

sure thing

Most of today’s millionaires weren’t born into their wealth, research shows.

A 2019 study published by Wealth-X found that around 68% of those with a net worth of $30 million or more made it themselves.

Further, a second study by Fidelity Investments found that 88% of all millionaires are self-made, meaning they did not inherit their wealth.

Pretty sure that's not what Commish is getting at.

You could have 2 people with the exact same work ethic who will make great life choices - one born to one of the self made millionaires in your example and one born to somebody supporting a family on minimum wage. You guys can't tell me you think the odds of positive outcome are the same in those two scenarios. Money and wealth is factor #1, the other things follow after that is what he is saying, and I would tend to agree.

I also don't think I would agree with their definition of "self-made" either. Hell, didn't our ex-POTUS describe himself as a self-made businessman and millionaire?

Things will never be exactly even for everyone. How could they be? Money is hardly the only advantage some people have over others. Intelligence, good health, height, good lucks, etc. are all hugely important.

But, we have a dynamic system that allows for most people to succeed if they want to badly enough.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

In THIS country, the primary driver for "social mobility" is

nope - money helps, but if a person is unmotivated, doesn't work hard ... they'll not be successful

You realize that @The Commish is making a statement of fact supported by data. And not just his opinion?

 

[Battersbox]

Most of today’s millionaires weren’t born into their wealth, research shows.

I would suggest that millionaires are by definition the exceptions rather than the masses. I'd also guess that most millionaires aren't what we think of when we hear the term, but instead those that have twenty or thirty years of 401K contributions.

Isn't that exactly the type of millionaires we want?

 

[The Commish]

In THIS country, the primary driver for "social mobility" is

nope - money helps, but if a person is unmotivated, doesn't work hard ... they'll not be successful

The rest is arguments over what comes after that as secondary, tertiary, quaternary, none of which have a bigger impact than the Reminder...the below is what I responded to.....

this country is full of people born with no money who are far far more better off than they were - through hard work, good choices, determination etc

sure thing

Most of today’s millionaires weren’t born into their wealth, research shows.

A 2019 study published by Wealth-X found that around 68% of those with a net worth of $30 million or more made it themselves.

Further, a second study by Fidelity Investments found that 88% of all millionaires are self-made, meaning they did not inherit their wealth.

Great....neither of you has addressed what I actually said though. The primary driver for "social mobility" is I don't care how they get/got their money...it's that they have it that's important.

 

[KarmaPolice]

In THIS country, the primary driver for "social mobility" is

nope - money helps, but if a person is unmotivated, doesn't work hard ... they'll not be successful

The rest is arguments over what comes after that as secondary, tertiary, quaternary, none of which have a bigger impact than the Reminder...the below is what I responded to.....

this country is full of people born with no money who are far far more better off than they were - through hard work, good choices, determination etc

sure thing

Most of today’s millionaires weren’t born into their wealth, research shows.

A 2019 study published by Wealth-X found that around 68% of those with a net worth of $30 million or more made it themselves.

Further, a second study by Fidelity Investments found that 88% of all millionaires are self-made, meaning they did not inherit their wealth.

Pretty sure that's not what Commish is getting at.

You could have 2 people with the exact same work ethic who will make great life choices - one born to one of the self made millionaires in your example and one born to somebody supporting a family on minimum wage. You guys can't tell me you think the odds of positive outcome are the same in those two scenarios. Money and wealth is factor #1, the other things follow after that is what he is saying, and I would tend to agree.

I also don't think I would agree with their definition of "self-made" either. Hell, didn't our ex-POTUS describe himself as a self-made businessman and millionaire?

Things will never be exactly even for everyone. How could they be? Money is hardly the only advantage some people have over others. Intelligence, good health, height, good lucks, etc. are all hugely important.

But, we have a dynamic system that allows for most people to succeed if they want to badly enough.

Never said the only advantage. I was just thinking out loud if it's the biggest one.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Things will never be exactly even for everyone. How could they be? Money is hardly the only advantage some people have over others. Intelligence, good health, height, good lucks, etc. are all hugely important.

But, we have a dynamic system that allows for most people to succeed if they want to badly enough.

If you could only know one thing about a person and had to bet your life on how successful someone became, then the piece of information that you would want is what? What knowable piece of information best correlates to you staying alive?

 

[KarmaPolice]

In THIS country, the primary driver for "social mobility" is

nope - money helps, but if a person is unmotivated, doesn't work hard ... they'll not be successful

The rest is arguments over what comes after that as secondary, tertiary, quaternary, none of which have a bigger impact than the Reminder...the below is what I responded to.....

this country is full of people born with no money who are far far more better off than they were - through hard work, good choices, determination etc

sure thing

Most of today’s millionaires weren’t born into their wealth, research shows.

A 2019 study published by Wealth-X found that around 68% of those with a net worth of $30 million or more made it themselves.

Further, a second study by Fidelity Investments found that 88% of all millionaires are self-made, meaning they did not inherit their wealth.

Great....neither of you has addressed what I actually said though. The primary driver for "social mobility" is I don't care how they get/got their money...it's that they have it that's important.

Yeah, I lost sight of the "social" part of the social mobility he was talking about.

 

[Stealthycat]

You could have 2 people with the exact same work ethic who will make great life choices - one born to one of the self made millionaires in your example and one born to somebody supporting a family on minimum wage. You guys can't tell me you think the odds of positive outcome are the same in those two scenarios. Money and wealth is factor #1, the other things follow after that is what he is saying, and I would tend to agree.

but that's rarely how it works

Will Smiths kids, Shaq's kids .... they'll have far far more advantages than my kids EVER will ... and so many kids of wealthy end up addicts, or living off their money and pee it away in a generation

but that's on them - their choices .... me? I was born into poverty, I know it, lived it and saw it all around me and I have watched over 35 years how they all became wealthy, middle class or nothing but trailer trash and I see how they got where they got too

money helps - but in the USA you can make everything from nothing - THAT is opportunity

 

[Stealthycat]

Great....neither of you has addressed what I actually said though. The primary driver for "social mobility" is I don't care how they get/got their money...it's that they have it that's important.

you should factor in how they got it

hard work, good choices/decisions ..... you can have than in many other countries and never be wealthy

in the USA you can - opportunity

 

[Caveman33]

You could have 2 people with the exact same work ethic who will make great life choices - one born to one of the self made millionaires in your example and one born to somebody supporting a family on minimum wage. You guys can't tell me you think the odds of positive outcome are the same in those two scenarios. Money and wealth is factor #1, the other things follow after that is what he is saying, and I would tend to agree.

but that's rarely how it works

Will Smiths kids, Shaq's kids .... they'll have far far more advantages than my kids EVER will ... and so many kids of wealthy end up addicts, or living off their money and pee it away in a generation

but that's on them - their choices .... me? I was born into poverty, I know it, lived it and saw it all around me and I have watched over 35 years how they all became wealthy, middle class or nothing but trailer trash and I see how they got where they got too

money helps - but in the USA you can make everything from nothing - THAT is opportunity

I think you guys are in agreement. Will Smith's kids are more likely than your kids to be wealthy adults. If you compare your kids to similar kids in third world nations, then your children are more likely to be wealthy. As a nation, America is still on top, living off the labor of other countries, and we all benefit. Two cheers for America.

 

[jon_mx]

Until we have our commie utopia where all outcomes are equal, this country sucks. You can't say anything decent about this country without making most people in here upset.

 

[The Commish]

In THIS country, the primary driver for "social mobility" is

nope - money helps, but if a person is unmotivated, doesn't work hard ... they'll not be successful

The rest is arguments over what comes after that as secondary, tertiary, quaternary, none of which have a bigger impact than the Reminder...the below is what I responded to.....

this country is full of people born with no money who are far far more better off than they were - through hard work, good choices, determination etc

sure thing

Most of today’s millionaires weren’t born into their wealth, research shows.

A 2019 study published by Wealth-X found that around 68% of those with a net worth of $30 million or more made it themselves.

Further, a second study by Fidelity Investments found that 88% of all millionaires are self-made, meaning they did not inherit their wealth.

Great....neither of you has addressed what I actually said though. The primary driver for "social mobility" is I don't care how they get/got their money...it's that they have it that's important.

Yeah, I lost sight of the "social" part of the social mobility he was talking about.

Easy to do when the goalposts keep getting shoved around after inaccurate statements are pointed out.

 

[(HULK)]

Until we have our commie utopia where all outcomes are equal, this country sucks. You can't say anything decent about this country without making most people in here upset.

Who is arguing for equal outcomes?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Isn't that exactly the type of millionaires we want?

Is working hard all one's life to have a million-dollar 401K to try to live another 20 to 30 years really fitting into the definition of successful "social" or "class" mobility? Are they really able to live a much different life in retirement (assuming any kind of longevity)? Now this isn't meant to be a disparaging comment as quite frankly this is going to be a lot of us here.

But even if they (or at least some) do fit the definition of the discussion then it is still using exceptions in an attempt to prove (or maybe disprove) a rule.

Then again to your question, sure we want these types of people to have savings, but society would be much better off if the few exceptional talents among this group would have had the income security to run with that talent they had. Rather than sitting in the cube farm, or working the real farm, or doing whatever they had the security to start that business, to work on that invention, to stick it out in that band, to write that novel, to continue in their arts, etc., etc. So yes for the masses this is exactly the type of millionaires we want, but since most have zero or close to zero in savings these mostly don't exist. For those with special talents or ideas being this kind of millionaire has been a waste. And it is not their fault, but that of our society for failing to provide the backstop necessary to chase that opportunity.

 

[The Commish]

Who is arguing for equal outcomes?

This is the game. Hear it elsewhere and project it on to everyone perceived to be the opposition.

Rinse....repeat

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Who is arguing for equal outcomes?

I think Mother Nature. We all share the same eventual outcome for this particular life.

 

[Stealthycat]

I think you guys are in agreement. Will Smith's kids are more likely than your kids to be wealthy adults

yes and no

yes, because of Will Smith's wealth ... but if those kids don't work hard, make good decisions and choices, they'll squander it all away in a generation .... I've seen it

and my kids, if they work hard etc .... while not being born into wealth, they can have more than Will Smith's kids

 

[Stealthycat]

You could have 2 people with the exact same work ethic who will make great life choices - one born to one of the self made millionaires in your example and one born to somebody supporting a family on minimum wage. You guys can't tell me you think the odds of positive outcome are the same in those two scenarios. Money and wealth is factor #1, the other things follow after that is what he is saying, and I would tend to agree.

this is all true - however when talking about opportunity for all that's not what's being discussed really

money and wealth is a great starting point sure - but it'll never replace hard work, good decisions/choices etc and I can support that by sharing how many NBA and NFL players are broke after a few years out of the league. Wealthy? yes. Incapable of good decision making and retaining/growing their wealth? absolutely

 

[Sabertooth]

Most ex jocks get screwed out of their money to be honest. And do you really think they don’t know about hard work? Concussions is probably involved as well.

 

[Battersbox]

Isn't that exactly the type of millionaires we want?

Is working hard all one's life to have a million-dollar 401K to try to live another 20 to 30 years really fitting into the definition of successful "social" or "class" mobility? Are they really able to live a much different life in retirement (assuming any kind of longevity)? Now this isn't meant to be a disparaging comment as quite frankly this is going to be a lot of us here.

But even if they (or at least some) do fit the definition of the discussion then it is still using exceptions in an attempt to prove (or maybe disprove) a rule.

Then again to your question, sure we want these types of people to have savings, but society would be much better off if the few exceptional talents among this group would have had the income security to run with that talent they had. Rather than sitting in the cube farm, or working the real farm, or doing whatever they had the security to start that business, to work on that invention, to stick it out in that band, to write that novel, to continue in their arts, etc., etc. So yes for the masses this is exactly the type of millionaires we want, but since most have zero or close to zero in savings these mostly don't exist. For those with special talents or ideas being this kind of millionaire has been a waste. And it is not their fault, but that of our society for failing to provide the backstop necessary to chase that opportunity.

This is a thoughtful post. Not so sure I agree with the bolded though. Ultimately, most Americans have some agency over the path they'll take. Eschewing material wealth to pursue some type of art which makes one's self happy is possible most of the time. But the choice often comes with sacrifices.

If a guy is strong in math and could realistically use that talent to land a solid engineering career but instead chooses his passion and becomes a struggling musician all his adult life, most would argue there is no 'waste' involved. Unfortunately we'll always have too many willing to be musicians and too few willing to be pipe fitters, garbage collectors, plumbers, etc.

***Admittedly I came in to this thread late and didn't bother to read the first couple of pages. My patience for the bickering which happens in most of these threads has waned. My assumption was this was all about mobility potential in the U.S. If I'm on the wrong tangent my apologies.

 

[The Commish]

We've moved from

social mobility only happens when people have (A) opportunity and (B) hard work and (C) good decisions and choices

and it's absurdity to now talking about fiscal responsibility. Best part of this whole "discussion" though is how is the measure......just not the source

I wouldn't attempt that sort of maneuver in my mental prime. No amount of stretching could get me prepared for that one. And don't think I don't appreciate the "look at all that mobility they squandered after accumulating it through money because they aren't financially responsible" shtick....not lost on me at all. Well done

 

[Sabertooth]

social mobility only happens when people have (A) opportunity and (B) hard work and (C) good decisions and choices

there have been many better physically than Jordan, many that have been mentally tougher, many who had same or better work ethic

there have been few with a combination of them all like Jordan had ..... and you can apply that to successful people in the USA too more often than not ... not many are successful without hard work and good decisions/choices, the drive/will to succeed and the opportunity that the USA gives us all

even people born into poverty, into single parent homes

We've moved from

social mobility only happens when people have (A) opportunity and (B) hard work and (C) good decisions and choices

and it's absurdity to now talking about fiscal responsibility. Best part of this whole "discussion" though is how is the measure......just not the source

I wouldn't attempt that sort of maneuver in my mental prime. No amount of stretching could get me prepared for that one. And don't think I don't appreciate the "look at all that mobility they squandered after accumulating it through money because they aren't financially responsible" shtick....not lost on me at all. Well done

Explain the Kardishian as it applies to they Stealthycat model.

 

[The Commish]

Explain the Kardishian as it applies to they Stealthycat model.

I wouldnt even know where to try to start to do that.

 

[Stealthycat]

Explain the Kardishian as it applies to they Stealthycat model.

do you think the Kardashian's don't work or make good decisions ?

born into wealth yes - they had a head start yes, but so many just like them flop bigly

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

Take every baby born today 06 September 2022 in this country of ours regardless of gender, creed, race or socioeconomic background the minute they exit that womb and take there first gasp of air they all have the same opportunity to do great things.

Enjoying the optimism of this post, but this quote isn’t even close to actual reality. Probably with you here until you get to socioeconomic background. Also not interested in semantics. If you think rich people and poor people have the same opportunity, I would offer that’s a naive position at best.

 

[tonysmiles]

This is the only country that gives you the greatest opportunity to succeed hence why so many want to come to this country.

Not naive that rich have greater opportunity than poor and that socioeconomic conditions impact your opportunity to be successful.

A lot who have replied have made it seem that being poor or having horrible socioeconomic conditions gives you 0% at success or cashing in your opportunity your given.

I have been involved in the education system for a good 15 years and have seen children who are supposed to attend Title 1 schools use the voucher system and school choice to better schools and many ended up going on to college. How did Ben Carson, Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell all make it many overcame adversity and poverty to be successful and some to just graduate college and have a better life than their parents.

Ending up in a better position than where you started can be considered taking advantage of the opportunity.

 

[Sabertooth]

Explain the Kardishian as it applies to they Stealthycat model.

do you think the Kardashian's don't work or make good decisions ?

born into wealth yes - they had a head start yes, but so many just like them flop bigly

Not everybody is going to do porn to get famous. Do you even think at all before you respond or do you just blindly defend every single crazy thought you post. Have a good one.